#039 - It's safe to say that navigating the emotional landscape of our veterinary work is no small feat; and no matter how experienced you might be, or how many additional qualifications or specialisations you have, sometimes you still feel like an imposter. But guess what? You are not alone in this! Dr Scott Kilpatrick joins us and candidly shares his story; how becoming a clinical veterinarian was infinitely harder than he ever imagined, and how he went from a period of burnout to finding a renewed sense of appreciation for his career.
Scott is a Specialist in Small Animal Medicine, Co-Founder of VTX (Veterinary Thought Exchange), and simply all-round fabulous person. It is clear he is committed to our veterinary profession, and cares deeply about helping colleagues connect, collaborate and develop professionally. During our conversation, we chat about how social media can really have a positive impact on us and how it can truly help us form genuine relationships with colleagues we may otherwise never connect with. We also shine a light on the realities of imposter syndrome, the liberating truth that additional qualifications don't always equate to contentment and an enhanced level of happiness, and the ever-present struggle of fitting continuing professional development into already jam-packed schedules.
This episode is one of vulnerability, openness, and a healthy dose of fun, and is a heartfelt reminder that amidst the tumult of our veterinary profession, happiness and fulfillment can truly be found.
Find out more about The Veterinary Thought Exchange
Check out the VTX Podcast
Follow VTX on Instagram
Get in touch with us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook and visit our website - platinumcpd.com
#039 - It's safe to say that navigating the emotional landscape of our veterinary work is no small feat; and no matter how experienced you might be, or how many additional qualifications or specialisations you have, sometimes you still feel like an imposter. But guess what? You are not alone in this! Dr Scott Kilpatrick joins us and candidly shares his story; how becoming a clinical veterinarian was infinitely harder than he ever imagined, and how he went from a period of burnout to finding a renewed sense of appreciation for his career.
Scott is a Specialist in Small Animal Medicine, Co-Founder of VTX (Veterinary Thought Exchange), and simply all-round fabulous person. It is clear he is committed to our veterinary profession, and cares deeply about helping colleagues connect, collaborate and develop professionally. During our conversation, we chat about how social media can really have a positive impact on us and how it can truly help us form genuine relationships with colleagues we may otherwise never connect with. We also shine a light on the realities of imposter syndrome, the liberating truth that additional qualifications don't always equate to contentment and an enhanced level of happiness, and the ever-present struggle of fitting continuing professional development into already jam-packed schedules.
This episode is one of vulnerability, openness, and a healthy dose of fun, and is a heartfelt reminder that amidst the tumult of our veterinary profession, happiness and fulfillment can truly be found.
Find out more about The Veterinary Thought Exchange
Check out the VTX Podcast
Follow VTX on Instagram
Get in touch with us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook and visit our website - platinumcpd.com
Platinum, cpd and the Positivity podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land where we work, live and record the Nungar people of the Wajak region and pay our respects to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and elders, past and present.
Speaker 2:I think the majority of veterinary professionals would admit that learning is actually when you've got time to do it. Learning is enjoyable, right? So I love if I've got the time. Then actually learning something new or refreshing your knowledge on a topic is extremely satisfying for us as professionals and actually is a key part of our job satisfaction, and I think when we're not being given the time and the space to learn and to continue to build our knowledge, that can be very frustrating.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Positivity podcast. I'm your host, emma McConnell, equine vet company director, wife, mum to Daisy, chihuahua enthusiast and lover of miniature ponies. We are on a mission to bring happiness back into veterinary medicine by shining the brightest of spotlights on all the positive aspects of the veterinary industry. Through the sharing of stories, we will showcase the magic and joy that comes with being a veterinary professional, encouraging you to remain motivated about this special vocation and helping you become as mentally wealthy as possible, both at work and in life. Every one of us has a unique story that is worth sharing, and this is the perfect platform to share the extraordinary tales of our colleagues and community. So settle in and rediscover the joy of veterinary medicine, and get ready to feel inspired and energized about your chosen career. This is the Positivity podcast. Hello and welcome back to the Positivity podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, the first week of 2024 is done and dusted and I truly hope that your year is off to a great start. We had so much fun recording today's podcast episode, but amongst all the frivolity, we really did touch on some very important matters affecting our profession. We spoke about the positive connections that can be made through social media, how experience and specialist qualifications don't necessarily equate to being more happy, and how all veterinary professionals really should be given time during their working hours to learn and develop. Today's guest is a specialist in small animal medicine, the co-founder of the veterinary thought exchange and simply an all round fabulous human. It is my absolute pleasure to introduce you to Dr Scott Kilpatrick. Hello, scott, and welcome to the Positivity podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm slightly nervous about this, so I'm usually the one asking the question, so this is a new experience for me, but I'm very, very happy to be here. So thank you for asking.
Speaker 1:Oh, you are so welcome. I'm so looking forward to our conversation and I do love that kind of the shoes on the other foot, you know. So it is now your opportunity to share your story and I'm really, really looking forward to hearing all about what you've done, because I think you know, we sort of spoke a little bit, you know, before we started about. Potentially our journeys are perhaps a little bit similar. I think we do have some things that we both value, you know, that are common. So, again, just so excited to really dive deep into all of the amazing things that you have done and all the amazing things that you are actually doing for our profession.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I think it's interesting because we, the more I learn about what you're doing, I think the biggest differences we spoke about is probably just geography. I think we're in very different parts of the world and maybe, maybe species interest, so I think that's probably our differences.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. But Scott, just to get us started, do you want to just give us a little bit of background, so perhaps just you know your journey in veterinary medicine so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it all started. It feels like a very long time ago now, but I graduated from vet school in 2007. I think, as with many of us, it feels like a long journey because it starts always so much. But you know before all that, like you know, it's starting when you're like eight years old or whatever, and you are having that dream of being a vet, and so it does always feel like a very long journey, and I was actually.
Speaker 2:I was joking with someone the other day. We were talking about seeing practice even before you got into vet school, and I remember being 12 years old in a vet surgery in Glasgow where I, where I live, and it was such a long time ago that between consults, the vet that I was working with used to light a cigarette, smoke a cigarette on the seriously smoking cigarette sitting on the consulting room table, and then, you know, put the cigarette out and then move on to the next client. That's how long ago my veterinary journey started, where you were still able to smoke in a consulting room. But it kind of makes you think, oh my God, I must be really old. Anyway, I so, yeah, so I graduated in 2007 from Edinburgh University, which I'm very proud of. And then I went into practice actually for a number of years and actually I'm really really glad that I did that.
Speaker 2:So I worked for a charity organization in the UK called the PDSA and actually, honestly, probably my favourite job. Like I just adored that job. It was so much fun. We just had a good time and we did a good job and we worked hard and it was just honestly, that was a great time. I then I did some emergency work and then I went and did my residency back at the University of Edinburgh in small animal internal medicine and I finally got passed my specialist exams in 2017.
Speaker 2:And I've been working in a combination of sort of private practice telemedicine since then. I suppose that the most exciting thing over the last few years is that in 2019, I set up a CPD or Continuing Education company with my husband and with a cardiologist friend, and so we started that exciting sort of part of my journey, so to speak, and they're still kind of working on that now. So kind of a mixture of things, and I think I feel like that's maybe the way forward. It's not necessarily about always having one job in the profession and just doing that one job for the rest of your life. I think I like the kind of mixture of clinical work but the CPD stuff. I love the teaching element and I mean I'm still trying to find that elusive work life balance. I'm not sure I've ever achieved that, but we're still striving for something along those lines.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was gonna say, I mean, I'm not sure if we ever, you know, kind of find that, and I guess when we talk about work life balance, I kind of try and think of it more as in like a work life integration. Yes, you know, because we're so passionate about this profession, like I'm not sure that we would ever truly be able to balance stuff. So just something that I just noticed. Scott, so you just said that you graduated from Edinburgh in 2007. So I graduated from Edinburgh in 2006.
Speaker 2:You did not.
Speaker 1:I did and you do not. No true story. And now, like the more I'm like thinking, I'm like, do you know? I was like I kind of recognize you and I was like, where do I recognize you from? And it's obviously from uni, stop.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that is absolutely ridiculous. Now hold on a second, though, because we would have graduated. Oh my goodness. So I actually intercalated. So I would have graduated in 2006 if I hadn't intercalated.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so I took a year out between fourth and final year, so I should have graduated in 2005. But how crazy is that?
Speaker 2:I know this is going to get wilder and wilder as you go along because they're going to be like, because that is, you know, it's such the, it's such a small world. It's not even true. You know we're speaking to each other from literally across the world. Yes, exactly, but the connection is is always blows my mind, that is so we will have literally danced at the same parties, or whatever 100% like 100%.
Speaker 1:But this is what I love right about veterinary medicine is that it is those connections. And you know it, our world it is quite small, you know, and that's just one thing I absolutely love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, though, that I, for me, actually, it's interesting because I completely agree with that. I think it's an extremely small world, you know, in the profession. Interestingly, though, what I think has really opened up my veterinary world in the last few years actually is is the connections that we've made over social media. Now, I know, you know, social media is good and bad and not for everyone. Before I, before I started the our business, I, you know, I had a Facebook account, but I was not on Instagram. I didn't think I was cool enough for Instagram, and I've really only gotten into Instagram for the business. But you know what it's opened up.
Speaker 2:I've met so many amazing people through particularly Instagram, that I, you know, that I never would have met, you know, previously, before we came on the call we were speaking about live, and actually, you know, for instance, you know, liv and I would have never met before the world of Instagram. So it's amazing, actually, the connections you can make, even with people that you're not, that I've never met, you know, particularly through the pandemic. You know, I've only just started to meet some of the people that I actually have quite a deep connection with, and it's all because, you know, and the power of social media. So I think social media can be a very powerful, powerful connector as well. As you know, nothing is perfect, but it certainly can can have some very powerful connections to.
Speaker 1:Without a doubt and, to be honest, like in this day and age, that connection is so important and I think it doesn't necessarily have to be direct sort of face to face, physical connection, like, I think, connecting with people via social media. You know you can still build very good relationships. So, just going back to live as an example, she's recently moved to Perth, which is my hometown, and I then had the pleasure of having coffee with her, you know, face to face, whereas we'd connected over a year ago. You know she's been on the podcast before, she's done some work with us. You know we've collaborated on our retreats, for example. So I've connected with her online, built a really good relationship. You know she feels like a really good friend, and then we actually only met face to face a week ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think so live was also on on my podcast and and then it's. You know, it's one of those things where it wasn't until after that conversation that I had with her and she was so open and honest about some of the struggles that she'd had within the profession and I came away just being really I don't know really kind of moved, really impacted by that, and that's what I love as well, like, I think you know, connecting with people, but also people having such honesty and transparency in their, you know, in sharing, you know, what they've experienced. And I and I think that's a big, a big turning point for us in the veterinary profession, because I think people are being more and more open about the good, the good and the bad, and I love that openness and honesty that people are feeling that they can share more and more.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:And again, I think this is where probably you know, you and I and what we're doing probably mirrors each other.
Speaker 1:Really, you know quite well, I think even our podcast are probably quite similar where you know, you give people the opportunity to share a story and, to be honest, every single veterinary professional has an amazing story to share and I think the more that we can share those stories, the more, I guess, you know, hopefully people kind of realize that it's okay that everything isn't always shiny and happy. You know that everybody does have struggles and it's okay if you do find things challenging or it's okay not to be perfect, because none of us are and we all have those shared experiences. And I think the more that we can talk about it and open up and be honest about our journeys, the better, I think, for everyone. And even and I'd be keen to kind of hear your story as far as you know what your journey as a resident was like, you know, I think even sharing those stories of the road to specialization, you know it's not a pretty journey necessarily.
Speaker 2:No, no, it's, it's really not like I think I, you know, remember being very driven and to specialize and I really wanted to do internal medicine and that was a, you know, a very clear goal.
Speaker 2:But I would say and I've said this before, you know, I I Feel that that was the beginning of my specialist career and and all the potentially positive things that that brought, but it also was the beginning, it was actually the beginning of a downward trend for me to like. It was the beginning of, actually, I think really were my struggles with, with my own, you know, mental health kind of began actually, and I think and I've said, and I really believe this, that I there's not a Positive correlation between becoming more qualified and becoming more happy. In fact, it was the opposite for me. So I felt like, oh, really, yeah, like I didn't feel like, just because I was, you know, as qualified as I possibly could be, it Certainly did not equate to, to happiness for me and actually, yeah, what it? What that? You know, the, the residency itself, actually, interestingly, I must admit, there was a lot of fun there, but I don't. If you were to ask me what are my standout memories of the residency, my residency 100% is the people that I met.
Speaker 2:The friendships, that I made you know the, the bond that I have with certain people, the bond that was created because we went through this shared hideous experience and the. But we can, we will, we will always have that. You know. You know my, my oncology colleague spela, who actually is now works in Australia and in Sydney, and Her and I will always have that deep connection, my you know, liz, who I have, the, the CPD company with. You know we shared an office that I could name other people, loads of people, but but there was a real kind of Amazing bond between the residents and that was, for me, the most positive thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then, and then fast forward to Getting on an airplane flying to Germany to take the exam for the second time. And then I remember being on the plane on the way back from Giesen and just we just weeping it on the plane and this, and this old woman beside me was like I think she thought someone had died. Not someone else didn't die, but my soul is dead. So, yeah, that's kind of accurate. So but I remember just being and and just being so Consumed and and and upset about the whole thing and and I did eventually, I did pass, obviously, and here we are now, but but it was so it was such a Pope polarizing experience because it was there was lots of great times, but there was it was also really hard and and so and I think, though, like, and I don't know how you feel, like I think you know, yes, I'm a specialist and and, but I don't, I still, you know, really struggle with confidence.
Speaker 2:I really struggle with you know, because I, I yeah, I always, I, I truly always feel a little bit like someone's gonna come in and just like and and and and be like this isn't you know, and almost like, find me out like it was all like I, like I'm, like I'm not really meant to be here.
Speaker 2:It what you know. It wasn't really meant to happen. You know what I mean. Yes, oh, a hundred percent. Like I feel like I'm gonna get busted and they're gonna be like nah, that was a joke.
Speaker 1:We made a mistake. Oh no, I know exactly exactly how you feel, and then I almost like I also feel. Actually, the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think sometimes, as a specialist, everyone kind of looks to you as if you're gonna have all the answers. Yeah and so many times we don't have the answer.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. But also I think that the but that's part of our job, I think is specialist, to kind of maybe change the narrative on this as well, because also I think there there can often be a bit of a divide between specialists and people in general practice or and and and a lot of that I think comes from this kind of superiority Stuff you know like in this kind of hierarchical stuff, and I hate all of that too.
Speaker 2:I agree the only, the only difference between me and you is we know quite a lot about not very much. Like you know, I was, I was having, I was having lunch yesterday with a really good friend of mine who Is a brilliant primary care vet and small animal primary care vet and she, I guarantee she will know infinitely more about Many more things than I do. It just so happens that I know a lot about a CTH Tim test.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know, like it's very narrow my knowledge base, you know I mean and so and and that's fine and I can you know, but but anyway, I just I do think we need to do a bit more to kind of just Breakdown some barriers, you know, take away some hierarchical stuff. I don't, I don't like a lot that that. That grinds me a little bit.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah, oh, I would absolutely agree with you like 100%. So just when you were going through vet school, so obviously you know you've, you are multi-passionate, like you sort of you know you have some element of diversification, you know, within your career Did you ever think when you were going through vet school that that was what your life was gonna look like, or did you have sort of expectations for your career when you finished?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I mean. No, I mean I'm trying to think like do you know? This is actually and I'm slightly ashamed to say this now, but I'm gonna be honest about it Hmm, I actually at one stage I had this like idea that it'd be really cool to be the vet at SeaWorld, like SeaWorld in Florida. Oh yeah no, no, obviously for so many reasons, that is, that that would not be. I mean, I I'm like I say I'm almost ashamed of that, because clearly we shouldn't have these animals in captivity, right?
Speaker 1:So I'm there's some welfare implications.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so I've clearly you know very much changed my view on that and I Remember being a younger person thinking that would be a really cool job Now. So I've obviously moved away from that and clearly nothing to do with Wales and dolphins, but but that was an idea at one stage truly. And I but I certainly didn't graduate from vet school thinking that I would be an internal medicine specialist. I remember graduating it was a Friday and I Literally phoned an old contact at the PDSA in Glasgow and I was like I really need a job and she was like yeah, and she was like, can you start on Monday? And I was like, sure, so I graduated in the Friday and I literally just drove through to Glasgow On the Monday and just started working and I and yeah, and I and that was, and that was it.
Speaker 2:And I think you know, and I suppose early on I would have quite liked to be a TV vet maybe, or like you know silly things, like I just always I don't know silly things and then it was probably I went back to the university to do some teaching, anatomy teaching and I really liked, I Really liked teaching. I really like kind of sharing or sharing knowledge. I mean, it's not as I always say when I'm doing CPD. You know, I Didn't make any of this stuff up. I'm just I'm just retelling someone else's story. I didn't find out about any of this. I'm just literally Reading the literature and bringing it all together and presenting it to you. That's all I'm doing, you know. I mean like I'm not making any of this up, yeah, but I so I kind of got a passion, I think, for for teaching, and then I, I suppose I kind of understood that specialism, the residency, was a way of Getting a qualification that would allow that to happen. You know, I think I realized that and so and, and there we were and and and so that was kind of the reasons for that.
Speaker 2:But but at no point During vet school truly, would I ever have thought that I would be doing this? I don't really know what I thought I was gonna. I honestly I'm not sure that I I was. I mean, I was 23. I didn't. All I was interested in was just like other stuff, yeah, but I didn't. I didn't. I definitely didn't think this was gonna be it. No, no.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Oh, my gosh, and so would you. I mean, it's kind of hard because I guess sort of you didn't necessarily have these expectations, but has your career so far, hmm, it has it kind of exceeded what you thought it could be.
Speaker 2:It depends how you're. You're asking that question, I suppose, because in in some ways, and it has exceeded expectation as far as I think, the people that I've met, the, the connections I've made, the many of the opportunities I've had to Travel and speak all over the world and do really cool things, and and actually as far as even having a podcast, which is literally one of my favorite things in the whole world, you know, and and and all of those things have definitely exceeded expectation. I think other things have no. Other things have maybe been Less than I expected, and I think that there have been moments, particularly in my clinical career, where I have Been affected by clinical work, and in a negative way, and that's not always been what I thought, you know it's it's.
Speaker 2:It's harder. The reality of vet new medicine, clinical vet new medicine is harder than I ever could have imagined. Being a clinical vet during COVID was infinitely harder than we could have ever imagined, and that that really potentially made me fall out of love with, with practicing medicine for a period of time. You know, and and that. So that was that there are negatives there too. So I've never I've not always loved my, my clinical work, and, and I had to take, you know, to take some time away to readjust that balance and and hopefully I'm Back loving it again, but it's it's. It's not been a perfect Journey from that perspective.
Speaker 1:Can I ask sort of maybe what it was about? The clinical practice that you know Sort of did become really challenging, because I suspect that there are many people in the same boat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think it was a. It was a number of things. I think that and you know, we talk about Compassion, fatigue, we talk about burnout. I think burnout, particularly, is a very real thing and, if I'm being honest, I think I was. I just was so Emotionally and physically exhausted that and by just working Probably too much, that I got to a stage. If I'm being honest, this is when I knew there was a problem.
Speaker 2:I remember, I remember sitting in a consult and An owner was telling me the long story of the chronic diarrhea that I've heard a million times. You know, not a problem, this is my job and I actually, I quite like GI disease, but anyway, yes, I remember sitting there looking at them and in my head I was thinking, I, I don't care, I just like, honestly, like I felt like saying, just shut up, just shut up, I don't care, I like just please stop, just stop talking, this is so. I just don't, I Don't care, just don't care. And I and I, and what an awful thing To think when, when, when, I, when I truly, I really care. Actually, you know, I really do care. Oh yeah, of course, and I and and and. But to get to the point where you were just felt like getting up, walking out and never coming back, because it was just like I can't, can I really have to go through this again, like it was. Just, it was that feeling and I knew, I knew at that stage there was a problem. At that stage I didn't fully understand maybe the extent of it and I, instead of taking time out which I should have done I changed jobs and blah, blah, blah. And then, and then actually for me, probably the tipping point where I had to then say you know, this is, I need to physically remove myself and take time off, was when I made a miss.
Speaker 2:I made a quite a big mistake with a with a drug dose. So I Basically prescribed it was. I was prescribing chemotherapy, metronomic chemotherapy, and instead of using the sort of metronomic daily dose, I used a much higher dose daily and made the dog very, very, very ill and and thankfully the dog didn't the dog survived. But it was when I found out that I'd done that and I knew the dog had come back because I had. I had done that. You know I that that was. That was a Breaking point for me. Now I'm not trying to to remove the blame for myself and that was my, my error. But, to be honest, I made that error because of a accumulation of physical and emotional factors that, where I was, I was not able to to make. You know, I was clearly struggling, yes, and you know, and so that was kind of the tipping point and I really, yeah, that was a bad day.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I can imagine. But I mean, I think, you know, we could probably appreciate how, you know, someone reaches that point, because I think ultimately we all have a finite amount of energy to give right, and you know, I think, the the more and more that you pour into Without the opportunity to kind of recharge or refill that energy, then of course you're gonna come to the point where, although you do although you sort of said that, you sort of felt like you didn't care you obviously do still care, but you just have nothing to give, there's nothing left exactly, exactly, it just and it truly it really does feel like that.
Speaker 2:You're just, you don't have the emotional capacity to To give any more and that is that's a. That's a horrible place to be in, do you know? I mean like it's and and and. So I think Now, every, everyone has a different and experience and and there was multiple other factors that kind of played into that we had, I don't know, the human condition. You know we're a funny bunch, human beings, I think, like I think, when I, when I passed my diploma, we also, you know, did a big house move, we adopted two children, like there was other, you know. You know, when you kind of do all these wild things together and you're like, why are we doing all of this? You know people have a baby and get a puppy at the same time. I mean, who do? Why do you do these things? Like, why, why, truly? But I've got, you know, a friend is pregnant and she's like and we got a new puppy, and I'm like that is the most ridiculous thing that anyone has ever done. Why have you done that?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, yes, so.
Speaker 2:We get bringing the kids into our world. Amazing, you know that it was it, yeah, but also, as you can imagine, you know, just a huge amount of stress, and and so I think I, I, I ladled on the stress from multiple Angles and it was just a bad, a bad combo.
Speaker 1:Yes, do not recommend.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And so I guess to kind of recover. So you did end up taking time out from clinical practice.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did, yeah, and actually. So that's interesting because we're kind of coming to the Big, the end and the beginning of a new story, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, speaking because so I, I actually and I Took a position doing Telemedicine with with Idex, and actually do you know what I? And I would say this to colleagues at Idex Actually, I really feel that that job in many ways saved my career, you know, and and saved me, and in in many ways, because it really was. It allowed me to take the time out I needed, but it allowed me to continue to use my, my brain as a, you know, as a vet, as a specialist and it was just a great, great opportunity.
Speaker 2:I will forever be thankful for that. That job I'm. I'm actually just coming to the. I've just I've handed my notes and that job and just coming to the end of that now and that's not for any, but not for any bad reasons. You know, again, circumstances have just changed and I'm ready to kind of Get out into the world and do a bit more. You know clinical stuff again, so, and I'm feeling very good about that and very positive about that and so and I know, obviously, alongside all of this and I've, I've had this stuff with VTX, the CPD stuff, and that's been a kind of constant in my life. A lot of work, as you'll know, but but it brings me a huge amount of joy to to create and to to be involved in teaching in that way. So I'm very grateful for that as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. Well, I'm so glad that you did bring up VTX, because I would absolutely love to to chat about that. Obviously, you know, as someone who, like yourself, is incredibly passionate about continuing education, it's so valuable, it's essential in my mind, absolutely essential, for us as veterinary professionals to be participating in CPD and so yeah, so maybe do you want to take us back and kind of share the VTX story?
Speaker 2:Yeah like how it all came about as I was leaving my first specialist job after being a resident, and we were in, so the company we created with Liz Bode, who is a cardiology specialist, and we were in her kitchen, hungover, for almost certainly for sure hungover, and we were talking about the fact that we did CPD for a lot of other people. We were talking about kind of work-life balance, we were talking about and and and I, I, it literally was like, well, why don't we, why don't we do this ourselves? Why are we? You know, we're, we are working for a lot of companies who and this isn't a criticism who employ specialists to do their you know, to Do, you know, create their material. Yes, and actually it's more unusual to see a company where the specialists are the ones who are delivering the material, are also the ones who are the creators of the company. That's more unusual, right? Absolutely yeah, so we, that's where it started.
Speaker 2:And and then I remember driving along in my car one day and the name VTX stands for the veterinary thought exchange, what really the, the idea of that was very much just that I Wanted it to be. Obviously, we're educating, you know. That that's, you know, the key part of it. But the exchange, the exchange. Part of it is the key. So I Wanted it to be again Much more kind of relaxed, conversational learning, you know. You know, learning with us, not not from us, this kind of idea that I don't want it to be just like we're teaching you stuff and telling you stuff, like I want it to be kind of much more friendly, much more interactive, much more and again breaking down those kind of barriers and just being collaborative, and so that that's kind of where the name came from. And then, and then I suppose we, you know, and then we had this big plan actually of and you'll remember that the old summer hall building and the corner of the Meadows in Edinburgh, that the old vet school, actually, that that's now no longer a vet school, it's not an arts venue, and so we and we Were had hired that as our first like Attendance venue and it was gonna be, you know, yeah, really cool. And then so we were gonna do our first CPD day in the old dissection room, really cool, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then the pandemic hit, and then we were, and then we were, you know, we were all forced to be at home, but actually the pandemic was almost like a Almost, like a blessing in disguise for us. It made us do things that we wouldn't want to do, and you know what else it made me do was the podcast. So but my, so my best friend in life is Karen is not a vet, she is. She used to work in radio, she did traffic and travel and different things, but she's been, we've been friends for 25 years or something. I mean she truly is my best friend in the world.
Speaker 2:And she, she said to me one day what have you ever thought, have you ever thought about a podcast? And I was like, what do we so ridiculous? I mean, what would I have? You know, what would I have to say? And blah, blah, blah. And she was like, let's do it, perfect for the pandemic, let's do it. And we did. And she does obviously the kind of technical stuff and I just chat rubbish. But you know, when you go back to our very first episode I think we've got about 55 episodes now when you go back to our first episode, we're talking about literally washing the shopping. So it was back at the time when we would literally go to the shops, get your shopping and we would like wipe it all down because of coronavirus. So we would like literally wash the shopping and then bring it into the house.
Speaker 2:So that was episode one, and then you're listening to our journey as kind of podcasters. My God, like we have come on. There was actually one sorry I'm blabbling now, but there was one tell you. The episode that really, I think, changed our trajectory was, I think, episode five, which is with Katie Ford. I don't know if you know Katie Ford, so she is an incredible human vet who talks a lot about kind of imposter syndrome and she did an episode with us and I really think that changed the shape of our podcast, because I think it really showed me that all you really had to do was turn up with a guest and just let them talk about their veterinary journey and people do not understand how incredibly interesting and inspiring that they are.
Speaker 2:One of the first things that people say to me when I asked them to be on the podcast, they'd be like well, what have I got to say? And I'm like, yes, are you kidding? You don't even realize how interesting you are. Let me show you how interesting and wonderful you are by just asking you some random questions, don't you think? I think that people are so. Like you know, we interviewed, for instance, jack Pie, who's a veterinary nurse in the UK and then it transpires that he's like some international bowling champion and I'm like pal, that's really interesting. Like why do you not know that? That's very, that's cool. You know stuff like that. Like you learn things about people and you're just blown away by how cool people are.
Speaker 1:Oh, without a doubt.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I really, really digress there. I don't know what the question was no, no, no, it's perfect.
Speaker 1:We were just talking about the VTX story and that's definitely a part of it. So no, that was amazing. But I 100% agree. Like I, when I reach out to people, people will actually sort of start off by saying, oh no, like I don't want to be on the podcast, like I don't have anything to share. You know, like I'm I'm not this and I'm not that, and this is what I mean when I say every single veterinary professional has an amazing story to share.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's like everyone has an amazing story 100% and I think people are, you know it really, you know there, there there are so many moments, just that stand out for me, where people are inspiring in ways that they don't even, they just don't even understand, you know, and it just it constantly blows my mind, Honestly, constantly blows my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. Yep, could not agree with you more. So, just speaking about, obviously, what you're doing with VTX and, yeah, I just love the concept so much. I'm also similar in that I really tried to make our events and courses not just someone giving a lecture. You know like it's all about. You know sort of fostering people's learning, but you know where they're playing an active role, you know, in their learning too I think that's so important.
Speaker 1:I think, as adult learners, you know that's probably how we can get the best out of you know these events and and at the moment you know there's no, you can't argue that everybody, everybody is so time poor. You know we are all so busy. You know vet clinics have never been busier and so I guess, along those lines, what do you think, or how do you think, that you know vets and vet nurses, vet techs, vet professionals, how can we kind of integrate CPD because it is so important? How can we integrate it into, you know people's already super busy schedules?
Speaker 2:I think that's a good point. It's something that we discuss a lot. I think 100% the feedback that we get is consistently what's the biggest barrier to you doing CPD in its time Exactly.
Speaker 2:Constantly, constantly time. I think it's about. I think it's honestly about creating CPD that is digestible in ways, that is, in a variety of ways. So I think you know for me the podcast, so we always do I always do a kind of clinic, clinical segment at the end of the podcast and even if that's just sort of 10, 15 minutes of a little bit about hypothyroidism or whatever you know, and I have had people say, look, I can, actually I can do that in my car.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, and I can still record that as CPD, I think we have made a conscious effort to make our material accessible for a longer period of time. So all like you know, for instance, all of our courses are now you can you have access for a year, and actually some people need longer than that. Oh, wow. And then, actually, for me, the other thing is utilizing social media. So I do you know again, just even you know, every couple of weeks I'll do an Instagram story where I chat through a clinical case and share some blood results and things.
Speaker 2:And actually, again, you know, if you're just sitting scrolling through your phone and actually you've got the inclination to listen to me talk for 10 minutes, then that's maybe you know. Again, just reaching people in ways that is varied.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Making sure that we're not, you know, trying to be flexible from our end as the providers, with kind of people's time and actually I think utilizing things like social media and the podcast, I think are all ways that we can allow CPD to be more accessible and flexible. I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, because I definitely think that we have to, you know, make CPD fit for purpose, right, and for each individual that's going to look a little bit different.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:And so you know, I think offering things you know in different ways is obviously, you know, very important. And what are your thoughts on how CPD can really contribute to someone's career satisfaction?
Speaker 2:I think this is key. I think the majority of veterinary professionals would admit that learning is actually when you've got time to do it. Learning is enjoyable, right? So I love if I've got the time. Then you know, actually learning something new or refreshing your knowledge on a topic is extremely satisfying for us as professionals and actually is a key part of our job satisfaction. And I think when we're not being given the time and the space to learn and to continue to build our knowledge, that can be very frustrating.
Speaker 2:And I think this is what employers, particularly corporates, need to really listen to is that people need, people need time to do all the different parts of their job, and one of the parts of being a vet, professional, vet, nurse, whatever Is about being given the time to learn, develop and, and and that's not something that we should be I don't believe that we should be doing that necessarily in our own time.
Speaker 2:You should be given that time during your working hours to complete a webinar, to complete a course, to do. That time should be given to you as part of your, your your, because it's part of your job, and so this is not something you should be rushing home and having to, like you know, watch twelve webinars in an evening that that time should be given to you. So I think it. If employers want to retain vets and nurses and have satisfied vets and nurses and an employee people that are Fulfilled in their jobs, they need to be allowed to learn, they need to be allowed to develop you, but you need to allow them that time. You can't just Presume that that will be, you know, and forced into an evening somewhere. That has to be given to them.
Speaker 1:That's really important because I think if it's not, then people almost become resentful, potentially, about having to do it, because it's like, well, I already work. So you know as that we already work so long hours and we put so much heart and soul into everything that we do, to then have to come home and instead of spending two hours with your children, you're now having to spend two hours in front of a screen.
Speaker 1:One hundred percent so I think that's so interesting and and it's quite sort of interesting to say obviously, I graduated from Edinburgh and spent a few years working in the UK Before I did my residency in South Africa and then move back to Australia. The difference in the culture between the UK and Australia is massive. Really and especially here in Western Australia. So you'll probably be surprised to hear this, but CPD is not compulsory for vets in Western Australia. Wow isn't that insane insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now that is insane because actually so. I will let me tell you a funny story. So so, cpd is compulsory in the UK, as you'll know, and actually so this is really hilarious. Well, I don't know if it's hilarious, not, I can't. Email the other week from the Royal College of Vet Resurgence saying dear Dr Patrick, and we noticed that you have not completed any of your.
Speaker 2:CPD records for the last, for the last, like two or three years, and this must be completed by this. You know, whatever date in May, or you're literally going to be in trouble and I was like I felt like right back going. I mean OK. I mean clearly I know I have to do it, but I say every second of my life is CPD.
Speaker 1:Exactly. You live, live and breathe CPD. Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
Speaker 2:So I was being hauled up for not so. I have now completed my CPD records. You'll be pleased to know.
Speaker 1:Oh good, that's good to know there is change coming to me. It just blows my mind, and so so, actually, certainly here in Western Australia, the culture of CPD and the value of CPD is not appreciated, and so a lot of employers are not that supportive of sending their staff to do CPD. And again, it's not all like. Some employers are very pro, but you know it, yeah, so that's just kind of really mind blowing, and so you know that's. What we're trying to do is sort of to demonstrate how valuable continuing education is. You know so that employers are supporting their staff in attending things or, you know, doing things online, but, like you said, but also giving them the time. And I know that that's difficult in this current climate, but we have to stop using that as an excuse.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:To not do things that are beneficial for our careers.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And our experience and our learning because, like I hate to break it to everyone, but it ain't gonna change this is our new normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, and I think exactly there, and. But it doesn't mean that we should be sacrificing people just so it's just to just to get through the volume of work. I think, ultimately Because we're not going to sustain this profession if we don't allow people to have balanced, interesting, fulfilling jobs and if we literally just throw them into the fire every day just to get through the workload, we're going to lose people even faster than we're losing them just now.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I do think that fostering a culture of lifelong learning, really, you know, I think one people will feel valued If they are given that time and opportunity and you know it means they're going to be happier in their job and, you know, more likely to stay and succeed in the profession.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think people you know people really do value that learning throughout the whole of their career. I speak to people every day who've been qualified for 20, 30 years and you know, and and I love that feeling of of you know, sharing that little bit of knowledge that is different from what they know, and you can see people's faces change and their, their whole kind of like I'm good oh, that's really Gosh, isn't that interesting. And I'm like, yes, you know, I mean like it is, and it's really it's lovely to learn new things and things, particularly that you can see Will make a practical difference to the job that you do. I love that feeling and I love seeing that in people's faces and you can really feel that you know and I really really love yes and it's so kind of inspiring to, isn't it like?
Speaker 1:You know, you sort of go to something, you kind of immerse yourself in a particular topic and you come out and you're so inspired and you're just like, oh my god, like I cannot wait for the next you know horse with a fever to come along, or you know the next neurologic horse that I'm going to see, because, like I've learned this new stuff and I'm going to be so much more confident and you know, like it's just going to be a really great thing and you're just going to feel so empowered.
Speaker 2:Absolutely such.
Speaker 1:It's such a like heartwarming feeling, you know, like it just kind of makes you love the job even more. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely so kind of on that topic. Obviously, you have experienced some challenges throughout your career and thank you so much for being open with us and sharing that with you. And what does sort of looking back, sort of over your career and with all of your experience and knowledge. What does veterinary happiness mean to you?
Speaker 2:What does that happen to me? I think Probably a feeling that I've had only recently, like literally within the last few weeks. So I did a clinical shift over a bank holiday weekend after having, you know, as I said, a prolonged period of time, you know, away from clinical practice to kind of Regroup.
Speaker 2:And I remember, and I was, I was treating A patient, speaking to an owner, potentially quite a sad situation and I remember thinking, and it almost I hope it doesn't sound cheesy, but I remember thinking God gosh, I'm lucky To be doing this job oh, wow like I remember thinking and I have never, ever thought that before, ever like I don't think, I've not, not, not in that way, like I, literally in my mind, instead of sitting across in the client thinking I don't care, I sat there thinking, gosh, I am quite lucky to do this. You know, this is a no like a privilege. You know this. This person isn't. This person is putting every ounce of trust in me and this little dog is super sick and, yeah, I really, I really thought that and I am glad and I was, I was so Grateful in that moment and just so and privilege is the right word I thought what privilege we have to do this job.
Speaker 2:And that was a total three, six and not one eighty for me, because I did not feel that before. Yes, and so I was. What one that was, that was a very, that was a happy moment.
Speaker 1:I feel happy and isn't that like incredible and I think so good for everyone to hear is that it is possible to go from you know being burnt out. Provided you sort of take the steps to recover and you know kind of get yourself back to where you need to be, to then have that appreciation again for your job and our profession.
Speaker 2:One hundred percent, and I think that's the message for, from my perspective, is that we and you can make changes that will positively impact, and I think it's important to To highlight. This is not, this is not one thing. There is, there's a whole host of of mechanisms I've put in place to to try and Improve my ability to navigate and my job, and you know I've I've Lots of things. You know I've done a lot of talking therapy. I've done, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy, like lots of different things to really Really help and, you know, make me as as well, as well as I can be and to do as good a job as I possibly can yeah, that's amazing, scott.
Speaker 1:I could literally talk to you for hours and hours and I feel like we've got so much more to dive into, so I feel like we might have to have you back on the podcast so that we can maybe well dive back into these things.
Speaker 2:Or you come on mine and we'll just do. Take two on another.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would love that, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Our other, we, should, we should definitely yeah hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I'm totally down for that. But just before we go, I was just wondering if you could share with us A career highlight or perhaps one of your most favorite veterinary memories to date.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, that is a really tough question.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's an incident.
Speaker 2:A career highlight. There are. I mean, there's lots of things I generally I don't you know as far as moment. You know, the first moment that always pops into my mind is, I suppose, opening, opening that email that said that I'd passed my diploma and I was a specialist. I've never, I've never felt I could my legs physically. I couldn't physically stand.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, my legs just were. I've never felt like that kind of really went to jail. I was so overcome with like just relief, I think, because I, you know that was an amazingly powerful moment. But then I think you know, but then I, oh, another, I'll end up crying, though so I can't. I've got to be careful about what I tell it, like the things I say, and I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Another moment that really sticks out to me was when I was in vet school after my intercalated year and the very end of my intercalated year. I remember walking down past the vet school with the. There was four or four or five of us that had done this intercalated year and it was almost like the last episode of Friends. You know when they all kind of, you know when everyone, when you realize that it's the end of an era.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Or the end of a time, and it's never going to be like this again. But it was amazing and we had such a great time and that that was a lovely, and at any time that I go back to Edinburgh, the nostalgia, the nostalgia associated with that place, is wild Like it's so, and so I have so many memories like that, of just great times, particularly. I mean, the best part of being a vet was going to vet school right, oh my gosh, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So you know, things like that stick out to um, oh yeah, we could go. I suppose we could go on forever. But, I don't know, that wasn't a very good answer.
Speaker 1:No, it's hey, it's your answer, so it's perfect. But I would definitely agree and and because I tried to go to the ECE I am Congress every year. It's always in Europe, and so actually my husband and I make a holiday out of it and my mum lives in the UK, so we always make sure we go to visit her, but we actually do always go to Edinburgh because I agree. Like the, the memories from my time there like there's some of the best years of your life, right, and I just feel so grateful that I had that opportunity to go to Edinburgh, me too, me too, yeah, so so much.
Speaker 2:Just such a wonderful, what a wonderful place a wonderful time just, wonderful people Just just incredible. Yeah, 100%, yeah, yeah, 100% yeah 100%, scott.
Speaker 1:thank you so so much for your time. It was such a pleasure talking to you and so great to like hear all of those amazing things that you're doing. We will be sure to share all of the VTX info in our show notes. Just so that people can kind of check you out and what you guys are offering, because, yeah, I think you're doing an amazing job. And we'll also pop a link to your podcast too, because that's also another awesome listen.
Speaker 2:Thank you, well, listen, thank you so much. Honestly, I've enjoyed chatting and it was a privilege to be asked, so thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Oh, I had such a fun time chatting with Scott and I especially love his vulnerability and openness and just how candidly he speaks about so many of his experiences. I really feel like this conversation highlights the fact that, no matter what your experience or how many additional qualifications you might have, sometimes you still feel like an imposter, but you are absolutely not alone in this. Being a veterinary professional can be really hard at times, but it is also one of the most incredible and satisfying careers and, as Scott says, is actually such a privilege and, as a profession, that's what we really have to hold on to. If you love this episode, please share it with your colleagues and if you have a spare minute or two, perhaps you could leave us a review. On whichever platform you listen to your podcasts on, don't forget to check out VTX and all their incredible offerings. We will be sure to pop the links to their website and socials in the show notes and make sure you're also following us on Instagram at platinum underscore CPD. Wishing you a wonderful week ahead. Bye for now.