Historian & Author Adam Berry and the 82nd Airborne in England

In this latest episode, historian and author Adam Berry joins Leighton to talk about the various Regiments of the 82nd Airborne Division in England during the Second World War.

An incredible conversation learning more about the All American division and their time in England, and how Adam came about writing his book of that time 'And Suddenly They Were Gone'. The book is available to buy, use the link below to get yours.

And Suddenly They Were Gone – Overlord Publishing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Good afternoon, good evening, good night. I think that's right, but this is um the We Happy Few History on your doorstep podcast. Uh I'm Flying Solo on this one, no special guest host. Um bit of a short notice one, really, and have a wonderful guest with me. Um and this 82nd Airborne Division historian and author, Adam Berry. How are you, Adam? Very well, thank you. Later in how are you? Pop bad thanks, yeah. So I know this is a bit of a short notice one, isn't it? And um I think we've been chatting a lot recently about a lot of 80 second stuff and going down and doing which I really want to leave till the end because I don't know what to spoil it and even put sort of a continuation onto it of what we can do later on. But um, I suppose the first thing question is mate, because I'm I've got your book and I absolutely love it. You haven't got it with me. Obviously, I don't think I'll put it on visual because I'm my my hair's a mess. But you know, your book and suddenly they were gone, which we'll talk about, which is about the 82nd Aborne in England, which is I'm really, really interested in because um I'm really interested in uh the the World War II history in England because I think it gets completely overlooked. Um and I see you nodding, you nodding your head, and and I think there's so much history on our doorstep. As I know around like Gloucestershire, as we've literally spoken, you know minutes before and even previously when I've asked you questions about the 82nd um and you know, and and other bits, and now uh I don't want to sort of give it give it away because I really want to keep it as a surprise for for a future episode um slash video. But you know, where I'm from, you know, where I grew up and I'm and covering all of the history that's around that, or you know, 2nd Infantry Division, 20th Infantry Division, etc., and and the ports that existed. Um so I'm literally going on this deep dive of history on your doorstep, and your book is just magnificent. Uh yeah, I think just jumping into it in a way is first of all, how are you, Adam? Because I've spent a couple of minutes here just talking about myself really and then what we're doing, but really introduce you. So, yeah, Adam, how are you? And yeah, how did you get into this? You know, what why the 82nd Airborne?

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Uh yeah, I'm I'm good. I'm good. Um, why the 82nd? Um I mean, I'm I'm I'm 39 now. I'm very much sort of, I would, I would call it myself a child of sort of SPR, Save Private Ryan, and and Bander Brothers. So I would have been uh 11 when Save and Private Ryan came out, which feels mad to say. Uh I would have been 13 when Bander Brothers came out. I've always been interested in the Second World War since I was a like, I know it sounds really cliche, but since I was like four or five, my dad used to take me to air shows and always preferred old planes to new ones, always thought they had more character to them. There was more, it sounds weird, but to say, but sort of myth around them. Um, you know, so and then when Saving Provide Ryan came out and Bander Brothers came out, it was like, wow, I love this. This is amazing. Um, but I I was I'm a I'm a derby lad. Um, I'll always refer to myself as a derby lad, but I I've lived in Leicestershire since I was eight. And uh I live where I where I live now, we're we're about uh 15 minute drive from uh Kworn, which is to those who know where Loughborough is, Quarn is a mile or two to the east of Loughborough, southeast of southeast of Loughborough. And there was a regiment of the 82nd camp there during the war. And so um as soon as I found that out, it was like, wow, I need to know everything about that division, and um I need to know where all of their campsites were, I need to know everything basically. Um, and I was a really, you know, as a really sort of like young person getting interested in history, um it was kind of the the the mentality behind it all was just needing to know everything basically. And the advantage that we had back then, of course, was that there was still quite quite a lot of veterans around. And um and I first started to communicate with veterans of the 82nd when I was 15, uh, which would what make it 2002-ish, around that sort of period, I think. Um, and the reason that the book came about was because A, I wanted to know where all the campsites were so I could go and look at them and you know see what was left or whatever. But the other thing was that inevitably when you speak to veterans you get certain ones that do not want to talk about their time in combat, which is absolutely fair enough. But never did I come across a veteran that wasn't more than willing to talk about their time in England. They were as soon as they realized you were English, or you said you were from Leicestershire, if it were 82nd, they would they would tell you whatever you wanted to know, and so that was great, you know, and and and being able to liaise with there was a couple of key guys who I liaise with quite regularly. One of them was Ray Ferry, who was 80th um airborne uh anti-aircraft artillery battalion, um, who sadly died in a in a car crash just before I published the book, which is why the tribute to Ray is at the start, it is at the front of the book. Um, and um, and another one was Bob Murphy, who was a company 505, who's a pathfinder in uh the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment. And I spoke to both of them on the phone. Um, I liaised with both of them by email fairly regularly. And they put me in touch with other veterans, and some veterans would tell you little snippets here and there, and then some would be really, really great and tell you really good stories. Um, you know, so there's another guy called John Delary, who was five or eight, who told me some great stories that are in the book, and um, and yeah, it just sort of snowballed from there and um yeah, from about the age of 15 or 16, just have this massive A4 folder where I've just printed every email I could out, printed anything I found online out so that I I knew I'd always got it, you know, I I wouldn't lose it, if you know what I mean. Uh, because you know what it is with the internet, you can come across a website and you know your computer crashes or whatever and you can't find it again. Yep, you know, so anything I found, I printed off. Um and yeah, over the years, just gradually, you know, put put information together, spoke to locals about their time. Um, you know, in in Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire when the 82nd were around, uh, because of course with the war being um you know very much sort of at its height around that time, um, the 82nd were basically not quite, but just about the only sort of males of a certain age demographic that were in the area at the time. And so you you know it it sounds quite obvious, but a lot of the correspondence I received back when I asked questions were from women who were like, Oh, I dated this guy or I dated that guy. And it's like, yeah, of course, makes sense. Um so yeah, yeah, that's that's where my love for the you know, my my you know, my love for the 82nd is is um unparalleled, unrivaled, if you want to call it that. Um, even though obviously I do have my my my interest in the troop carrier groups that flew into combat, and you know, the books that I've done on that, you know, the 82nd really are um where my my passion really is.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

That's amazing, mate. Honestly, um, I mean there's so many questions, just just to pull from that alone. Um, and so what I'm trying to phrase this question right because 15 is that's when you started communicating with the veterans. And is that where the idea for the book started formulating in your own mind?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yeah, I think so. I I think that um it's one of those things, isn't it, where until you do it, you're never really sure whether or not you're actually capable of doing it. Um the idea back then of especially when you're 15 of writing a book is is um is quite daunting, but at the same time, you have a sort of like naivety about you when you're that age and you just think I'd be dead easy. Um, but when um you know when these guys were providing me with information that was just like and it's not just you know stuff that was like, oh, this was where my tent was, or I was in this building or whatever, it was for stories that we told as well, you know, and you just think these are these are stories that but because they're not combat, it's like you said at the start, no one really sort of seems to you know be that interested in, but they're great stories about guys who were you know thousands of miles away from home. For some of them, they had been away from home for you know the better part of two years by that point. So it's like yeah, I just I just found it fascinating. I just thought it it deserves to be something that is a book in its own right, but doesn't only very vaguely sort of references combat, um, particularly if there's a story about a about somebody that you know ended up going off to be you know KIA or something like that. Um, but their time specifically in England was what I wanted it to be, to what is what I wanted the primary focus to be.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

That's incredible, mate. I mean, I wow, yes. Um, I mean, so many sort of um I you know, when I as a podcast host, I think you know it should always be about the guest, but obviously always putting in snippets of context if it's relatable. And for me, it's it's meeting another chap very similar to yourself, a guy called Matthew Pallet. I don't know if you know Matt. I know Matt, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and and speaking to Joe Mucher about um having you on a couple of days ago, and we were sort of referencing Matthew Pallett's book as well about the 101st in England, which I absolutely adore, and I didn't realise it existed until last year when I met him when Joe introduced us. And I remember thinking to yourself, I'm thinking about you as well, it is, you know, and I'm lucky enough to be posting one at the end of May, or to which I've I've invited you across, you know, I'm not too coming for the Sunday, aren't you? Because of your other particular interest, but actually relates to the 80 second interest as well, is you know, 101st in England. Yeah. And it's fascinating reading, you know, where they were, where the camp was, the stories, the personalities. It clarifies so you know, it provides clarity to a lot of things as well. I mean, and then and it's the same with your book, and and the the the the sort of um how do you know the the parallels then sustain because you were roughly the same age as well. I think he was very the same age when he started communicating with the gents of the 101st and started. And Joe Mucci said exactly the same thing as what you've just said yourself is to be at that age and having that foresight to start documenting things and turn it into a book, because what you just said, you know, is is people talk about the sexy stuff and you know, battles, you know, you know, the campaigns, etc. But no one talks about here. And I'm like I said, I I'm really proud of the itinerary I've put together. The ticket's still available, by the way, for anyone who is interested in still go in, and affordable, um, of the sites of the 101st. Um, because there's so like what you just said then, there's stories there. And you get to walk in the footsteps of when they were green or when they've come back from Normandy, you're getting ready for market garden, and you get to walk on the airfields, you know, where they kitted up, boarded the aircraft, you know, or at the camp where they relaxed, and and there's just so much there. And 82nd, I mean, so going back to you then, you know, the 82nd, when you did go back to the camps where they were at Corn and all the other locations, what's the last and legacy there? What have you what did you find? Was there anything to be found, or is it anything that sort of you know signposts back to that time gone?

SPEAKER_02 11:59

It's it it varies. I mean, Kworn's always been very good. Um, I mean, the the grounds where the campsite was actually located, um, there's nothing really to see there. I mean, there was a so it's it's it's it's very difficult to explain about sort of showing on somewhere like Google, Google Maps, for example, but the entrance to the camp at Quorn was off a road called Wood Lane in Quorn. And um the camp's on the grounds of a of a building called Quorn House, and the Father Fifth didn't get use of the house, they just got use of the land, but it's bordered by a stone wall, basically, a big sort of five-foot-tall stone wall. And they broke a hole through the wall to create the entrance to a to the camp during the war, and that is now the entrance to a housing estate called Northge Close. So I guess you could you could say that there is some legacy there, and that there is now you can you you can go to where you know the entrance to the campsite was because it's the entrance to a small, I think 10 or 15 houses, small housing estate there. Yeah, um, so there's that, but the but they've also got Stafford Orchard where there's several memorials to the 505th. There's a uh a piece of stone with a plaque on the front of it that came from uh Nijamegan Church.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

And so Korn is great. Korn is one of those ones where, yeah, great. Um and then you have others um like Scrap Toft where the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment were, and Evington where the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment were, and there's there's there's nothing really. Um yeah, it's it's one of those things where I I think it almost depends on who you've got locally sort of driving a uh uh driving it from a remembrance perspective in the in the war in the years, particularly since the end of the war. Yeah. Um I think it maybe helped that a lot of 505th guys used to go back to porn every year, um, certainly in the sort of 70s and the 80s. Um and that sort of helped them remain in the consciousness of the village, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

So absolute sense, yeah. Absolute sense.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

So yeah, it it it varies, it depends. But you know, gradually over the years, as more years, more and more memorials have have popped up. I was honoured to to build a couple myself, one at um at Tollerton Hall in Nottinghamshire, where the 507th Parachute Infantry Regiment were, and then there's another one um in Scraptoff, which is kind of like a joint one between the 325th and the 504th, because their campsites were only sort of like as the bird flies, you know, three miles apart, something like that. Um so um, you know, and and and with like things like what we did, what me and Daz are doing with Mission 82, the idea is to try and and I know you've got some some ideas in your head about what you what you want to talk about at late at the end or whenever it is about additional memorials, but the idea is to try and make every site have a memorial or something at every site that we used, basically.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Oh yeah. That's the plan. I think that's a wonderful idea. Um, I think that's incredible. And you know, one of the greatest things I feel like I've achieved, and I I'm sure you probably feel the same as well, is when we unveiled a memorial in um in Genk in Belgium, my you know uh myself created an initiative, you know, fundraising for a memorial for the Alice from Dallas crew, which we saw portrayed in Masters of the Year. And you know, I asked the question, Reg you know told me the answer, no, there's no memorial here. Uh and I said, Can we do it? Is that possible? Little questions. I think I, you know, I think you know, I'd love to know if how that started with you. I feel like we've jumped again with questions as well because I was right on my notes at the end, sort of watching. Um and Red said, let's let's have a look, you know, and he'll go through the paperwork. And as soon as he got the thumbs up, yeah, you know, we can do it. It's been signed off. It did help having a couple of names attached to who was going to be attending. Um, but you know, if that's where it takes, that's where it takes, you know. Um, you know, and as soon as I got the thumbs up, started to go fund me. Um, I got the ball rolling, and people just donated. And and and I think when we got, you know, and then I was getting updates from Reg, this is how it's looking. What do you think? Can you get some wordage? So had to engage with the right people, you know, that is Matt made from the Hundred Bomb Foundation, because I don't know about you, but you just want to make sure you get everything right. You know, you need somebody to sort of validate, you know, confirm, you know, to make sure what what's been put on there is accurate, because that's probably the last thing we want to do is, you know, have that misinformation or inaccurate information because as we know, people will take that as truth and move forward with that. And before you know it, that's a false history. Um getting that nailed as well. And when we did it, it was quite mind-blowing. And I don't know how it's been for you, but we turned up the site after doing, you know, it was the end of our battlefield tour. Um, and this was the last stop, the last thing. And just turning up, and it's a crowd of people, there's reenactors there, there's pieces of the aircraft there, and there's a sense of wow. One question started this ball rolling. And I love how Reg reflected that in his speech in the town hall is you know, one question, you know, hey late, you know, hey Reg, I've got a question, boom, and that's it, it flew. And to see the fruitation, you know, the fruition, oh, sorry, of it, fruitation, apologies, of your hard work. And I'm sure that you've what was so the question is I knew what I felt when I saw it, that you know, that pride, how would how did it feel for you? You know, is it yeah, what I suppose talking to me through, you know, so was you know, the first time you saw Immemorial in Veiled, how was it? I really want to know. Well, the ones that but but mission 82.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah, yeah. Um, well, I mean, with the ones I did back in 2013, the I think the best the best thing that came from it was the relationship that I formed with several veterans as a result of it. Um, one of which was George Schenkel, who was eCompy 508th, who um he he got back from from having come over for the unveiling of the memorial, even though it wasn't for his regiment, you know, he was still more than happy to come and represent the division there. Um, and I think the best thing that came out of that was that when he got home from his flight, he sent me a um uh a load of um CDs in the mail and said, I want you to write my bulk my autobiography for me. And obviously, you don't say no when a veteran of World War II asks you to do that. So he hit George is actually the reason that my my book about the 82nd ended up being delayed because I put it on hold so I could write his book. Because because I thought, you know, he's a veteran as bad as it's he might be gone tomorrow. I don't know. So I felt like I've got to do it whilst he's still with us, whilst I've got the chance. And there was another guy, a guy called uh Roland Daniel, who was B Company 507. Um an incredible history, he fought at Lafayre on D-Day. Well, for three days um following D-Day. Um just somebody that you would never in a month of Sundays of guess would have been a paratrooper in World War II. The most unbelievably kind-hearted, gentle soul you can ever imagine. Um, and he became a really, really, really close family friend. We took him back to Normandy in 2014. We stayed with it, we stayed with him in Normandy for two weeks. It was the it was the holiday where I proposed to my wife. Um, it was the last without meaning to sound down, it was the last big holiday we had with my mother-in-law because she passed away. Um, you know, and it was um so and and and there vis are the memories that come from it, but yeah, the the pride of seeing something that you've worked so hard towards actually standing in a field. And another another source of pride that I get from it is when I go back to them now and I see the care that the locals are giving the memorials in maintaining them every every year, yeah. You know, because you kind of feel like, you know, am I gonna go back and I'm gonna find that someone sprayed a knob on the side of it, said giant penis on it, yeah. Yeah, or something like that, but they're just being really well looked after, you know, like the one in Scraptoff, for example, they've planted a load of like wild flowers around it, and it's it's beautiful, you know, and it's and that that kind of makes me feel like, yeah, it was all worth it, you know what I mean? It was it was yeah, it's given the villagers something to really sort of buy into and look after, and you know, so I think that that's an element of it that makes me really proud.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Um back to actually when you went to Normandy, were you there in 2019 with them both as well?

SPEAKER_02 20:45

No, we were in we were in Normandy in 2019 um with Roland's family, but sadly Roland had passed away.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Oh, okay. Um saw you without knowing you if that made sense because there was two 80-second chaps there.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

George was there, and we did we did meet up with George, we met George for lunch. Um, in fact, there's a um one of my favourite photos I've ever, I don't I don't know if I've got a copy here, but one of the favourite photos of of me with George was um was sitting down with him at a restaurant in Normandy and showing him my book, basically. Because there's pictures of him in there, as I'm sure you're aware of. Um, so it was really amazing to sit down with him and show him that. Um, but yeah, sadly, sadly, Roland had um had had passed away by then, which was was a shame. But uh, you know, he the the one and only time he ever went back to Normandy was 2014 when we took him back. And um, I'd like to think that that was um a trip that you know it had been it, I think it had been a trip that was a long time coming for Roland. Yeah, I don't think he'd got any appreciation of the sort of level of respect people have for the veterans over there. And you know, he cried when he saw the 507 memorial uh memorial at Amphroville. I just Don't think he really appreciated how much people care there. Yeah. You know, 2014 as well, massive anniversary. Um it you know what it's like when the when the veterans are there, they're they're treated like they're movie stars, basically. You know, everybody wants their autograph, you have to chaperone them everywhere in a car, you know. It's like you feel like you're looking after some sort of A-lister, which to me, they you know, Roland, Roland was was every bit an A-lister to me. You know, he was uh um an amazing friend of our family, and and you know, uh one of many men that I idolized basically, you know. So um it was a such a pleasure to take him back.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

And that was that the first time he'd been back since the war.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah. Wow. He he he wasn't one that that really he was again, he was one of these veterans that didn't really open up about the war. Yeah, his family knew very, very little. But I I I I cannot put into words moments like the day we took him back to Lafayette and him realizing that that was where he'd been fighting because he couldn't tell us for sure. But he was describing it to me, and I was I was because you know, we'd we met up. I don't know if you know a historian Marty Morgan.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah, no, Marty, but yeah, so through social media, yeah. Yeah, yeah, obviously, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Yeah, Marty had spoken to him, me and Marty had spoken to him, and every time Roland described it, we would me and Marty would look at each other and go, He's talking about Lafayette, he's got to be. And we took him back to Lafayre, and he he he he realised the moment he got there that that was where it was that he'd been fighting. Um, and he was uh he was an assistant machine gunner, the machine gunner was either lost or killed on the drop, so he ended up basically being the machine gunner uh for his um can't remember what platoon he was in now, but but anyway. Um, and he was he was up on the bank behind where Lafayette, uh where Iron Mike is now at Lafayette, and an officer from another regiment and someone he didn't know basically just came up to him, dumped a couple of tins of ammunition by the side of his foxhole, and just said, anybody beyond that point moves, you shoot him, basically. And that was how he spent the first three days. Um, and then he rejoined the 507 on the other side of the Merderay River. Um, once the the the bridge head at Lafayre was sort of broken and expanded if you if you know what I mean. So, no, he had never he'd never been back. Um, but but when we were back, aside from all the Lafayette stuff, I don't know whether or not the countryside out there or whatever it was, just it it it it brought back loads of memories for him, and all of a sudden the story started rolling, you know. So it was it was incredible, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

I was gonna say that that's that's such a unique experience. Um first time going back, and it just ignites those memories, doesn't it? I mean, I got goosebumps just thinking about. I mean, yeah, that's that's unique, and I know there's guys, you know, Woody, you know, Andy Biggio, etc. I mean, I'm sure they've had that experience as well with people. I mean, but that's gotta be a small handful of people who've been able to do that and and just to be there with him and it just triggers the memories. Wow, and that laffey about Jesus. Yeah, sorry for swearing. But yeah, did you did you document were you did he allow you to document uh what he was saying, or was it just sort of in private?

SPEAKER_02 25:28

It was just no, so um in in fact, virtually the first night that we got to the chateau, we stayed at we shaved it, we stayed in a big chateau in a in a town called Hombier, and um it's right down sort of Operation Cobra sort of area. And the reason we booked somewhere that far away was because we wanted it to be really, really quiet for for Roland so that when we did have you know these long days, which inevitably we were gonna have, he would, he would get some peace in the evenings. But almost the first night we got there, we sat down, we started talking. I said to him, Do you mind if I record this on my phone? And I just sat there and recorded, and uh he he just opened up basically, on and even his daughter and and his his wife have have told me since that these are things that not even they knew, you know. So um, you know, and I don't I don't want to bang on about it, but one of the one of the biggest one of the biggest things for him and and one of the most emotive stories he told us was that and I can never get this right around, but one of his best friends in B company was a guy called Fidel Elizarez, and um he was either he was either of Mexican or Spanish descent, I can never remember which way around it is, and in the weeks running up to D-Day Roland made the mistake of referring to him as the other one, so he either called him a called him Spanish or called him Mexican or something like that, but but Roland did it intentionally as a as a a bit of a ribbon, if you know what I mean. But Fidel took great offence to it, and they didn't reconcile their differences before the drop into Normandy, and Fidel was killed in Normandy, he was killed uh as B Company were taking a little village called Vindefontaine, and um Roland could not talk about Fidel without getting really upset. And I I'm getting upset thinking about it now on his behalf. I can't imagine how that would feel to have to have because they were young boys and they were just you know taking the mick out of each other basically. Um, you know, one joke got taken out of context and got taken the wrong way, and the next thing you know, you're jumping into Normandy and you lose your best friend before you've had a chance to um you know reconcile your differences basically. Um and that that you know to to sit and listen to Roland talk about stuff like that was as I'm sure you can imagine it, an honour, but but also very sad. You know, it's very difficult to listen to an a man of his age, who because he was in his early 90s by that point, um, get as upset as he did.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Um that's been with him for 70 years.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Yeah, I I think that that's part of the reason why he didn't talk about the war, yeah, was because he he had the he he found it very, very difficult to talk about um you know things like that where losing Fidel was was something that you know I think sat on his conscience for you know 60 years, so 70 years.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Sad, but amazing moment, amazing, uh amazing things to to be um you know um to be hearing and to sort of be given the pleasure and the honour of of of being told. Um but yeah, it's uh it's sad at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Absolutely. I mean, but it shows he trusts you as well, doesn't it? There's that element of trust because you the fact is he yes, you're there, you've brought him there, but it's he he's comfortable enough to to talk to you about this. I think that speaks volumes in itself, but he he you know he he can do that because he's bottled her up for like I said 60, 70 years, and you know, he's got this young English lad with him, and he trusts you. That's huge, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah, it's I've never really thought about it that way, but yeah, I mean it's it's it's certainly it's certainly special. I mean, but you know, uh he's he will always always be someone very, very, very special to not just me, but my whole family. And obviously, my whole family aren't into the history like I all support me and support what I do, you know. My parents, my wife, uh my wife absolutely ador adored Roland. She's got a thing for old people, which sounds a bit weird, but um she absolutely, absolutely adored Roland, and and Roland adored her. And uh yeah, it was it was amazing to um it was amazing to do. I'm just I'm really, really sad that they've that he's gone and that that George is gone.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Um they are, they are, and and it it's it's we're losing them by the day, aren't we? And and and going back to you know, last October, I helped facilitate the rifle visiting you know Poddenton and Ace's High Gallery, and he was bringing over Leicester Schrank and engaging with uh Jay from the Enfield Rifle, who does a very similar project, inspired by Andy, which is amazing, and he's doing it for the British. You know, I said to Jay, can you bring a couple of guys? And um so Jay brought two veterans, you know, um, and as we know, I don't know if you saw yourself on social media, you know, Leicester passed away, you know, just over a month ago, and um uh John Dennett, you know, passed away, I believe it was last week. Yeah, and that's just five months, you know, and and the impact actually of um I think John. I was working at Bryce Norton, we know BFKS Radio was on, and and they mentioned him, and I was just so nice just to hear that, that he hasn't been forgotten. I don't know if it's been the same for you with the second veterans just on some news out there to anyone, you know, just hearing that these men have been acknowledged, um that's still remembered. And I I've it was really nice to hear that actually, you know, and and but I couldn't believe it, like, you know, two of these guys out of three just park on in five months, you know, and it's just I mean, I've met Lester a few times, you know, again, in in in thanks to to Andy and and the rifle. It just seems full of energy. Like it was just, you know, do you know what I mean? And it was just incredible. And and meeting these veterans, it it's it's amazing. And you you know, going back to what you know, I throw it on the pod for chat about the guys in England is I go back to when I was in Bathstone, again, you know, got invited up to the meet myself and Matthew Leach got invited up to, you know, the where Andy was staying, and with the veterans, and I had a Vietnam veteran start to my right, and I had Ed Cottrell start in front of me, and there was Rose, who was one of Andy's volunteers. And um we weren't chatting about the battles, you know, certainly with the Vietnam vet, um, John, you know, John Cahill. Um, we were chatting about the downtime, you know, what he did in his downtime. I obviously won't repeat it, but you know, just listen to me. We did speak about it, but I didn't want to go too far into it. We also spoke about going back to Vietnam as well, and he showed me photos, and it was just incredible. And then Ed Cottrell came out because he couldn't sleep and um he sat down with us. I I'm just I don't know about you, mate, but when you sat in the company of these two guys, you're like, oh my god, like I've been to Afghanistan myself, but I just like but just being in the presence of you know a fighter pilot and a and a and a grunt from Vietnam is just like wow. Yeah, you know, I could talk to you guys for hours, and and we you know we did speak, you know. I was there, I mean I wasn't even drinking, I was driving, but you know, you had the all the blokes on one end, and it was myself, Rose, Ed, and and John. And we didn't chat, I and that's what's great about your book is you know, we're not chatting about the battles, what we call the sexy stuff. We're chatting about the time, either it it well, post-war, so with Ed, we we spoke just from a conversation was hey, you know, where's that ring from, if you don't mind me asking? He was wearing this particular ring, as the Americans do, you know, for certain things. It was a golfing ring, you know. Used to play golf, and you know, we sp it was just fascinating you and these talk about these sort of things, and I think that's what's fascinating about your book, is just it's different, you know. And and I suppose I feel like I've covered it, but just want to make sure I take it they had so many stories that inspired you to uh to write this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

I mean, like like I say, um it it it occasionally you you you come across a story or you get told a story by somebody and you just think this is too good not to go in a book. I was really conscious actually with one there's one story in there, and I'm sure you you you all you all have have seen it, but the story of Arthur Abrams, the MP, that got stabbed in Leicester. Um and that's a very difficult story to write about, not just not because he was killed, but because of the circumstances and because of everything that was going on in Leicester at the time, and it's like you know, I was sort of at odds. Am I putting am I am I um shining a bad light on the 82nd by talking about this subject or you know, whatever? But at the same time, you read it and you're going, you know, it's it's history and it's really good history, you know, it's it's it's fascinating history, and it is it is you know, it is history in its rawest form. It is, but you can't not write about or publish because you feel like you're gonna I don't know, you're gonna upset somebody or something like that. I don't know, but um this is it.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

I mean I'm sorry, I'm leaning I'm leaning back, apologies if I go a bit quite. I'm just trying to find a book to see if I can show it. Here we go. I know exactly what you're on about, and and it's it's that reflection, isn't it? Do you want to tarnish their memories in a way? But we also have to remember the MP, you know, and and and his memory, you know, and the sort of circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

And um, and I read a book, you know, and again, it's all about that local history of what happened, where you grew up, and you know, Camp Island Farm. It was a 109th Regiment, infantry regiment with a um of the 20th, you know, the blade buckets, and it became a POW camp. And it's a book here, you know, um Come Out Wherever You Are by Herbert Williams, and it's about the true story of the German great escape. And it's a documentary on on YouTube as well. I'll have to send you the link, mate. And I'll put it on the patrons as well, actually, because it's factually funny. There's one guy in the typical Welsh bloke, minute 33, it's hilarious. Um, he's more concerned about going for a walk than the Germans, you know, on escape Germans. But but what you just said then, you know, it it's about a story of a very violent Canadian soldier, and he had an you know, he had a pistol on him. And um if I remember rightly, he shot someone, but he blamed her on the escape Germans, but the policeman didn't believe it that it was just just you know, but and again, do you include something like that in a book because he had this these violent tendencies? I wouldn't say his name, you know, read the book, it's a really good book, it's not they're on eBay. Um but you have to, yeah, you know, you have to, I think, because it's not all sunshines and rainbows, you know, when they're in the UK, we know that they're over here, over sex and overpaid, you know, as it goes.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Um you know, the thing with the whole with with the whole riot in Leicester and and and you know that led to to Abrams' death in Medefa Curtis Fares, who was a member of divisional headquarters, is is that it was it was instigated to a degree by a regiment in the 82nd to 504th who would just got back in they they arrived in England two months later than the rest of the division because they'd been held back um as a regimental combat team to um essentially plug gaps in the lines at Anzio. And uh and when these guys got back to the UK they were I would I I would describe it as being very, very on edge. Um you know, guys that had been through the mill seriously, um, and all of a sudden were thrown into a civilian environment, yeah. And I don't really think that they were given any sort of guidance on you know on anything.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Decompression.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

So yeah, 100%. That's the best word for it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

And they they've brought in, I mean they come back, you know, they're straight in, there's there's no, hey, let's put them in a camp, get the frustrations out, there's a you know, a case of beer, go nuts, guys, you know, gates are closed. But they do that, they do it in Afghanistan where you come back and you have like a day, maybe two. It depends, but it depends on your unit as well. And I was listening to this um Billy Billingham or Mark Billy Billingham from you know the STS, and you know, he uh his idea of decompression of when they were coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan was his idea was, hey, let's go here. I think what did he say was, you know, it was an idea he wanted. Um, because somebody asked a question about how do you guys decompress? You know, what's the best way? And one of the ideas he proposed for the special forces guys, because they're gonna be ramped up, you know, to the max on what they're doing, and just let them have a few days for themselves, get it all out of the system, and then we'll bring their families over and ease them back into civilian life, you could say, or that civilian um, you know, uh integration. But obviously, these guys you're on a ship, and again, you're contained, you're moving, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Who knows, you know, again, they're still wound up because it in these tiny cores possibly, and so they like like sardines, and then there you go, guys, uh unleashed to the world of you know, to the world of Leicester, and it's supposed to be well I I I think one of the biggest things as well was that no one had briefed them on on the fact that Leicester was very much um as it is today, an interracial city. You know, it it it it wasn't there wasn't a it it changed obviously very soon after this event took place, but it it wasn't a city that you know wouldn't allow black American soldiers in into the pubs, into whatever you wanted to call it. You know, they were they were very much a part of a community.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Um of the UK, by the way, what you just said then. Uh you know, that that was the same, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Um you know, and and I just I just I just think that they they're their their arrival could have been handled slightly better, but uh, you know, again, we we we have the benefit of looking back in hindsight and going yeah, always wonderful things. Then you know we we wouldn't we probably wouldn't be probably wouldn't even be talking about it, but it was yeah, it was something that um yeah, uh I just I just don't and the other the the other thing that didn't help was that we didn't have their live ammunition taken away from them. Oh god, yeah. Um yeah, that that certainly didn't help, but um yeah, so um you have to include that, mate.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

I I I fully agree. I mean, has there anybody so regards to that has there been any blowback from the inclusion of that story in your book, or it's actually been quite supportive and you've you know what's in all?

SPEAKER_02 40:29

It's been it's been pretty good to be fair. I mean, most people find it really fascinating. Um the only thing that we've ever I've ever really had sort of feedback on um in terms of the book is that there's um so as I say, I I I I don't want to give too much away for anyone that wants to read it or learn about the story, but it do you want me to do you want me to go through the story in a little bit of detail so that anyone watches and understands what happened? So so basically what what happened was the 500 the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, they got back from Italy, or the 504th Regimental Combat Team, which included the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, uh 376th Parachute Field Artillery Battalion and C Company of 307th Fairborne Engineers, who made up a regimental combat team. They for some reason they were selected to remain in Italy when the rest of the division division was sent to England to prepare for, or first sent to Northern Ireland and then to England to prepare for whatever lay ahead, which as we know now was D-Day. But they arrived in in April, and um what they arrived to was a very integrated city, as I said, and they learnt that there was a pub um just sort of to the slightly to the northeast of the Hummerston Gate area of Leicester that was frequented by black American soldiers, which was called the Dixie Arms. Now, obviously, there are connotations with the word Dixie, uh, particularly with anyone from anyone from that regiment that came from a southern state, any of the states that fought with the Confederates during uh the Civil War, um, the concept of there being black American soldiers in a pub that had got that name just did not sit well. And there were there were rumblings that these guys, some of these guys from the 504th were going to go into town and they were gonna go to this pub and they were gonna kick up a fuss. And so the 82nd Military Police Platoon, which was based at Braunston Park in Leicester, was mobilised, if you want to refer to it that way, along with several members of the division headquarters, which were sort of they were rounded up to sort of supplement the MP platoon, and they were sent out into Leicester on this one night, which um was the 1st of May 44, to essentially quell any uh disturbances that took place. And lo and behold, there was a big fight at the Dixie Arms, and two members of the 82nd Airborne Division got stabbed to death by uh by a black soldier. Um, there was one guy called Arthur Abrams, who, as it happens, was actually English. He was born in Manchester, his family emigrated to the US. I can't remember, it was 19 or something like that, um, quite late on. So, by all accounts, he probably had a bit of an English accent when he was in England. But um, and there was another guy called Curtis Fairs. Abrams was stabbed in the neck, and as far as we can tell, basically bled out in the back of a van on the way to Lester Royal Infirmary, and Curtis Fares was stabbed in the chest. And uh MPs of various units got involved to um uh quell the situation. By all accounts, with Dixie Arms was as good as sort of ransacked, destroyed, uh both inside and out. Um sadly the pub's not there anymore. that entire l area of Leicester's changed completely now. But um anyway, the the only part of the book that I got some feet some sort of not no one was being overly critical of it was the fact that I um I spoke about a conversation that I had uh with a veteran of the 82nd Airborne Division in St. Mary Gleece who told me that members of the 505 Parachute Infantry Regiment upon learning that two members of the 82nd had been killed basically went out to get vengeance. Wow um and I elected not to use the guy's name in the book. And the only feedback I've kind of had is that people have suggested that you know if you're not going to include a name then you might as well just be making a story up which I wouldn't do. That's aside from the fact that you know I was not alone when the conversation took place. There's several others who would back up everything I said everything that's written in the book. And so that's the only really sort of you know only real feedback I got on it. But the the it the the whole issue of the race the the whole issue of race around Leicester the integration of of of of white and black american soldiers in Leicester and the issues that it caused and the the the after effects of it all um are are something that I think generally people find quite interesting.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

That's fascinating it is it's it's totally fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah so I'm glad that that I included it and it and obviously like you say Abrams and and Curtis Fair desert deserve to have their names sort of written into that history because they they were the ones that sort of came came off the worst from it obviously. Yeah. So um yeah it's uh it's certainly a a sort of fascinating aspect of it but you do like I say you do have these moments where you think you know do I um the only other time I've ever sort of consciously elected to like leave a name out or a piece of information out was in relation to and this and this is another thing um sort of goes back to the Mission 82 thing that the four guys that were killed in the explosion at Spano preparing for D-Day that we're doing the memorial for in June um one of the members of uh one of the families of one of the four men killed received a letter from the US Army in which the man responsible for dropping the grenade was named. Oh and he is the that's the only time that I have elected not to name a person when writing about it in the book or in the stuff we're in the promotional stuff we're doing at the memorial or whatever. Oh purely because in this instance I don't think it matters quite simply I don't think it matters he didn't do it intentionally it was an accident and I don't think his family need to know no that the US Army had kind of attributed blame in that regard and so yeah yeah that's another reason why but otherwise it's it's one of those things where I think you just kind of have to go this is history tell it how it is basically as best as you can yeah but man yeah that's that's fascinating oh wow man we could talk you know I I know it's getting quite late now and very keen to sort of not wrap it up but like I want to get to a point where we can stick a pin in it because I really want to explore other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

So how long do they spend in Leicestershire? You know what what kind of activities do they get up to training I mean how did I suppose in terms of the you know the ramping up of training you know what kind of things were they getting involved in and and also as well a jump school was there a jump school and obviously we all know of Chiltern Folier for the you know the the 101st yeah what about for the 82nd as well?

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yeah there was a jump school um it was at a place called uh Camp Ashwell um which after the war became a uh a prison uh and I believe it still is a prison today obviously all the buildings are different there it's been you know the huts that were there during the war they're gone but but ashwell was very close to RAF Cottysmore where the 316th troop carrier group were so the way the one the 82nds jump school worked was that and there's actually some a very famous series of photographs of of a guy jumping out the door of a C47 and there's a there's a series of fields and a road below it below the guy and you can trace exactly where that road is today and it's it's in fields directly south of Camp Ashwell um so you know that you're right in the middle of a DZ basically when you drive along this road um but the first so they they would get trucks to Cottysmore the first four jumps they would do um in the fields directly astride Cottysmore they would march their parachutes back to the airfield re um um what's the body word re-fold the parachutes repack them that's the word they look for um and then they would do their fifth and final jump into the fields below Ashwell and then they would get passed out. So yes Ashwell was the um was the um was the jump school it was also where the 82nd parachute maintenance company were billeted they had a hangar at Cottersmoor uh the 316 Troop carrier group gave them a hangar at RAF Cottysmore and that hangar is still there I was there with Daz 18 months two years ago I think um to use as a parachute drying shed and there's a very again there's a famous photo of a of a Dodge weapons carrier parked outside this door this hangar and the doors are open and there's just thousands of parachutes just hanging from the ceiling in this hangar um so to answer your your the question before that how long were they in the UK they arrived on the the bulk of the division arrived on the 14th of Feb. And as luck would have it two weekends after they arrived it snowed really really badly in the UK. Incredible yeah they got some really really good weather um which especially when you're in pyramid tents and I've slept in pyramid tents in the middle of July and it's cold so I can't imagine what it is like to sleep in a pyramid tent in the middle of a you know weather weather like that. I mentioned that obviously about the 504th not arriving until April well because the 504th we've been so badly battered in um in the combat at Anzio and because the Americans altered the TOEs for a division prior to Normandy to include three parachute regiments instead of two the 2nd Airborne brigade which included the 507th and the 508th parachute infantry regiments were attached to the division and that's how the division jumped into Normandy. And they were based in Nottinghamshire but they didn't arrive until the March. So um sort of middle of February the bulk of the division is in the UK the 504th will arrive in the April um but of course 29th of May 44 all of the units subunits of the division that are going to be involved in the in the Normandy invasion they're either shipped off to their embarkation airfields or slightly earlier in that they're shipped off to a certain area of the country you know pretty well um about and they jump into Normandy or they glide into Normandy or they're taken over to Normandy by sea and then around about the middle of July they come back. And of course numbers wise they're massively depleted hugely under strength uh most of the regiments had suffered sort of roughly somewhere around sort of 40-50% casualties huge number of KIA um and obviously they spend they then spend a certain amount of time one of the the um one of the things that you will see by looking at the morning reports is that they were almost immediately um the guys were almost immediately allowed on a five day furlough um so um they were allowed to you know you use the word decompressed uh decompression earlier they were allowed to to go and sort of decompress and a lot of them by that point had got girlfriends in Leicester in Nottingham um and I can well imagine that those five days were spent um I'll let the listeners use their imagination what those five days were spent doing um and then um there was a couple of there's a couple of um cancelled parachute drops at the end of August early September but then of course 14th of September they're back to the embarkation airfields and they fly off a market garden um and the the the basically the division doesn't return after that it's uh they leave we think the campsites stayed open particularly quarrels uh stayed open until around about the time but the the Battle of the Bulge kicks off um as a way of uh reintegrating replacements yes and wounded personnel back through the division um but the bulk of the division didn't didn't return um so yeah how long would that have been all all told uh sort of six or seven months maybe uh a bit less than that really um and then obviously if you take away the days that they're in Normandy take that out of it as well but um you know the campsites were very much um you know still sort of active um you know a lot of the guys that had been sort of uh slightly wounded in action or lightly wounded in action in Normandy that had been sent back over to the UK for recuperation would have eventually sort of found their way back to the campsites whilst the division was still in Normandy and they were sort of temporarily integrated into the service companies of each regiment and and when the regiment arrived back um after Normandy um they would have uh sort of been reintegrated back into their sort of uh normal companies um but yeah so they were they were here for a they were here for a while they were here long enough to establish relationships that have lasted you know generations basically since so and there are still people that live locally around here that are GI babies of 82nd airborne division guys and uh there's a really good friend of mine a guy called Jerry Milno lives in Ashby which is literally uh four or five miles down the road from me whose dad was 325th glider infantry regiment so yeah they're they're still very much present in a roundabout way around here amazing that's phenomenal that is I mean what we'll do is we'll round her off because I I could talk to you for hours mate about this. Yeah um I did have a load of photos prepared but we might they might have to wait until next time.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

I think so mate because but you know obviously next time what we're gonna do is we're gonna figure out the date um where Miyu hopefully Daz if he wants to as well yeah I'm sure he'd be and we're gonna go down and I won't say where they are because I want to I want it to be for us and then we can unveil it because I think it's very under I think amongst the local community it's very under the radar and people who may have been on the Sicily tour might remember me talking about at least one of the locations and possibly both but you know we're gonna go and explore it. We're gonna walk through these marshland camps and know exactly where they are and we can park up and we can really just explore and you know we can talk about you know what kind of things happened what the units were um etc you know and you know in particular you know is task force C or Task Force Howells as well. Because and and let's smash some myths that you know it's England. It's not England you might not relate to England yeah and I thought I find interesting you talk about the morning reports as well mate is you can read it now I can't remember if I've seen them for the 82nd you know airborne division I've seen them for one of the 101st where they talk about where they're going. Some of them just say unknown station or unknown base or not disclosed base. Some you know but you know the you know where the paratroopers are going going to the aerodrome aerodrome aerodrome and the ones who are not going via plane it's uh something else and that's sort of bit of an indicator of who's who uh in some cases they they do reference the area certain I think it's the 501st and one of the morning reports I came across because there was an accident a vehicle accident uh I think somebody died um I think that was a 501st or 50 second where they actually indicated that Swansea call it you know this is not we're going for the 580 second stuff by the way um but that's the kind of thing but that was just a brief comment um in one morning report of probably tens and tens and tens I read um trying to just get you know show yourself or Joe Mucia or another one of my mates you know of Halo Cry family you know um and so what I'd love to do is yeah is and in in with mission 82 so you know um is if we can you know if that'd be an idea you know for you guys you know we'll watch it you know primemorially you know and speaking with Ben Powers you know who wrote a book on the AEF airborne uh anti-aircraft batteries and um again it's just going back what we're you know speaking to before we started recording um you know having looked through a lot of papers and and and I I I'd seen Ben's you know book mentioned a million times I thought I need to get that but then I've got a you know a pile of shame and then I just have to listen to you know in researching for this listen to you know your recording with Joe Mucia um I listened to that the other day and I just I just I don't know why I just went for Ben's and I saw the 80th and I just thought why do I recognise that yeah and you know it's just one of those things isn't it and I started listening to it and um and then I think it was earlier I think I continued listening to like you know today and I just you know reading for this because sorry you know getting ready for this and um I thought let me have a look let me have a look at my papers and I just went wow and I just messaged Ben and I said hey look at this you know these are the guys you you know you wrote about and I haven't got Ben's book but he just sent me a screenshot of a you know um a page and just sort of there you go look at that port and it's just like boom and he didn't call it England either which was lovely.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

That's nice yeah it's way it's one of those things where I just think that because um they didn't have to uh drive for several you know for like seven hours or cross the sea it's all just England to them is it or it was just yeah it was all just England to them but England England England then it's like no no no in in fairness in fairness when the artillery units go to Senibridge to train I'm pretty sure they refer to it as as Wales in their map I think some places do it I think when it's quite obvious and they know where they're going I think then it becomes you know and I think when it comes for you know the T-born stuff because it's sort it sort possibly it could be down to the secrecy of it all is you just going somewhere and I suppose they just don't understand where it is they go and they just know they're going somewhere and it could be you know dark and you know they just don't know and before you know that they're just in a countryside somewhere and you know farmland whatever and they just don't know the difference because it just all looks the same.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Yeah that could be a massive factor to it as well um unless it's like a really you know identifiable port you know and it and and there's a lot of camps in South Wales and a friend of mine Carsten you know who's doing his own research and I see him you know putting out the before Carsten you know you know I helped him with something you know um and they were then the uh don't ask me the name of the regiment but certainly he was in the 2nd infantry division and he was he had a bit of a gap um on on the on on you know track in the history and I just saw 2nd division well they were in Cardiff or St. Donald's which is near Cardiff and I thought well I'll help him out because I you know I got I'm you know way to luck and hey Carson there you go mate boom and he's like wow what's that and he's like boom that's amazing and they go use a Google view of the above you know and my intent is to go you know go to that site on the ground take photos of what I can or what I can find but also as well get the drone app to show them hey this is it from above and this is what it looks like now. So it's really interesting you know what was used and I'm I'm I've I've I've had a couple of ideas where I sort of want to and again you know your book is so useful and so amazing. I actually got another question as well for you. It's just it's just understanding what units went through and I suppose trying to find then and now photos which is content I like to see and I like to do I think it's a really fascinating idea and you've got them in your book you know and I think you know again speaking to Joe Mucci about this you know it gives him ideas of where to go and what to see and understand oh wow look you know see you know look at this and oh look at this and people like oh my god wow that's that's amazing that's that's that I've seen that photo a million times or this that and the other and now I can I'm I'm there you know and I think you know but to find a you know for the marshalling camps really really hard and because secrecy you know unless you're an airfield yeah or you're at the port it it's it's it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

Um so yeah what I find sorry what what I find interesting about it is but that in almost every case particularly with the embarkation airfields for the 101st and the 82nd is that there were signal core photographers there uh signal core film crews there it just doesn't seem to be the case with the marshalling camps that were for the seaborne uh elements they yeah it almost feels as though they were even being overlooked back then like they are you know like they are now you know that um the seaborne element of an airborne division is perhaps not considered to be you know may maybe they were even considered to be sort of like rear echalon troops back then even though we know that in certain cases that's not the case so yeah absolutely mate I can agree more and and and they do obviously they're the rock stars you can say they're the rock stars in in one step they're all rock stars um so yeah first of all the what first things first is have you ever thought about doing an 82nd airborne tour around Leicestershire you know going you know similar to what I'm doing where I'm hoping you're gonna be there at the end of May for the airfield staff um to talk about because the 82nd flew from there and who better to have than you yeah yeah uh yes I would I would love to do a tour um I guess the the the overriding question's always been what you know what what the interest is in doing it really. I know that you know with sort of 101st in the you know I I call it like the Bander brothers effect there's always going to be a certain sort of um yeah a certain sort of interest there. So I guess you know it's one of those things where I would particularly sort of put it to your viewers and say if there's any interest in seeing the where the 82nd were and where they flew from um on on D Day and and things like that. I mean I always find it amazing I you talk you spoke about at the very start of the podcast about about being in the footsteps of these guys and I find it amazing that Kworn is is where John Steele was. Everybody knows who John Steele was you know and that's where he was camped. Yeah and um you know and and Ben Vandervoort who was played by John Wayne in the longest day he was in Korn you know these are massive names that everybody knows. Ridgway Ridgeway yeah you know Gabin yeah but these are all people that everybody anyone that's got an interest in the airborne they know these names and therefore I find it amazing that there isn't as much interest sort of a little bit further up north from the one as in the first areas than than than there is.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

But I mean come back to your question on that then and names um excuse me you know you might have to correct me on the name um because there's a memorial frame at Lafayette is a Lafayette uh de Glopper uh de Glopper Charles de Glopper yeah the Medal of Honor winner yeah where was he so he would have been scrapped off yeah so he was fleet 25th glider infantry regiment um the great the great thing actually is that their campsite or what was their campsite was very very close to being turned into a housing state and it's actually now been it's now been registered in nature reserve now being protected um which is great but it but again yeah a medal of honor winner um at um at scraptoft so there's so much money could do I mean you could I mean we'll definitely I'd like to sort of look into it I mean oh my god Ben Main did a a battlefield tour around Coventry and he had a decent crowd so there's hope you know and and I'm sure if we put it to bear you know and and obviously yeah absolutely love to have you with us. I know you can't make it for both days but if you can please let me know by having you sitting here for you know the the airfields would be amazing considering you know the you know um the book you've written on it you know the troop carrier you know can't wait you know for that to come out but you know your the 80 second element as well I think that's so fascinating it'd be great to have you know your voice on that as well yeah yeah it'd be a pleasure to be there yeah looking forward to it mate and and like I said we'll we'll you know when we get down to South Wales you know we'll figure something out and we'll look to do things you know and we'll chat and you know the marsh and camps because it's just it's so undermentioned and and even the local community you know doesn't really know about it. You know they know you know what is probably more celebrated is Camp Island Farm which was the German Great Escape but they don't talk about really if I'm honest you know the the historian there he's going to be coming on and really you know excited to have him on um chat about that you know that camp because I you know I sent him something before and he'd never seen it before it was the site plan of of the camp and he's like whoa what are you this from I was like internet yeah you know but I think there's all you know we're always learning that's not me you know saying that in narrative way I think is we're you know man I'm learning stuff all the time and I'm so grateful to people who signpost me to certain directions because you know it it's just it opens up a kind of worm's rabbit hole doesn't it um so yeah I'm looking forward to pinning something

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

You know, even since I did my book, there's more there's more stuff that's come out, and you know, it uh sadly when the veterans pass away, it's only then that family members discover like photo collections and things like that, and you know, you you realize that half of this guy's photo collection contains photos of the time in England.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

Yeah, phenomenal. I mean you're right, mate. I think you should do you know an updated version or something, maybe, and and I think be incredible. Um going back to obviously names as well. So, where we're gonna go is with Task Force C Task Force C Marshall through Howells, General Howells.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

I mean, again, if you know your airborne history, and it was Joe Muccia who told me this one again. I used to quite a few shout-outs on this, I shouldn't really get a commission. But he signed off, wasn't he the commanding officer of the jump school in Fort Benin at one point? So a lot of the jump certificates had his signature on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Yeah, he was a really, really, really prominent sort of airborne officer, he was, yeah. So again, I think that he was sort of lumped um with uh uh uh well I I I obviously don't think so, and I'm I'm hoping a lot of people don't think so. But the the sort of slightly less glamorous job on uh D-Day when it came to the three task forces that be you know, the 82nd sort of took to Normandy. Um but yeah, uh a great general by all accounts, a really respected guy. Um, you know, and and again in the in the sort of in that sort of overall airborne community, granted, you know, he's not quite up there with you with your Ridgeways, your Gavins, your Maxwell Taylors, your Macaulay's, but he's a big, big name when it comes to sort of American airborne generals, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

Yeah, he's you know, and I think I think I say, you know, and obviously the idea, you know, for me it's quite ironic how he was the commanding officer of the jump school in the US, uh, I believe it was Fort Benin, um and he went via sea into Normandy. Yeah, I know exactly. That's quite bizarre, isn't it? It's like this guy like signed off all those guys who, you know, more probably most of those guys who jumped out of the airplane, you know, aircraft, um, and then he's gone via sea. But um no, that's awesome. But yeah, so before we sign off, um, when's the book out? The troop carrier book.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:06

Well, uh, it's it it it it's been out twice, but we've had a lot of issues with publishers. Um, so I'm currently in the process of re I I'm I'm having to sort of re-jig some of the files so that it can be relaunched again under Overlord, whoever the the publisher would do my second book. But we've made made so just if you just bear with me one sec. So just to give you an idea, oh wow, this is what we've released so far. This is this is two volumes in four books, and there's gotta be, I think, a total page count of well over two thousand pages all in on those two volumes there. Um but the problem is when you publish a book like that, they're very big and they're very expensive. Um so we think we maybe a decision, we're gonna try and break them down a bit into smaller books that people can that people will find more manageable to A buy and B get shipped to whatever part of the world they have they they're in. Um because they are you know they they they're they're almost as costly to ship as they are to buy in the first place. The publishing company that published those bet versions of those books, um I won't go into the details, but we've we're we're we're moving away from them basically. Um and we're going back to Overlord Publishing, who published the original sort of versions of, but they've gone through various changes. It's it's been a bit of a uh uh a nightmare from our perspective. And I'm by our I mean uh obviously mine and Hans Denbrock, who's the Dutch historian I write them with. Um yeah, it's been a bit of a nightmare, but hopefully they'll be back with overlord publishing soon, and people will be able to get hold of of them. Um I we are super, super proud of them, and the photos that are in them are just some of them are just absolutely mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

I can't wait to see them, man. I'm really excited. It's um I really am. I mean, if it's anything like um and suddenly they were gone, I have no doubt in my mind they're gonna be that's gonna be a fantastic read. And and you know, no doubt I'll be pestering you and asking you when, you know, um any for updates, and you know, when you do get an update, please let me know and and I'll absolutely you know put a look out link out on socials, you know, because uh you know, not you know, bragging, but like you know, it just seems to be growing. I think I put a lot of effort into it the last few months, and so I'm hoping the interest will be there, you know, and and it just makes you a rock star because if it's this book is just phenomenal. And I'll definitely put a you know link out, and you know, um, you know, if you know when you come down in May, I'll see if his people want it, you know, and and if you've got any you know to hand you can bring down if you have any, just bring it down and you're there. People, I believe people will buy it as well if you have some to bring down.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

Um the the last thing I'll say on the book is that and it might come across as biased, but you can't have an interest in the airborne and not have an interest in Troop Garrick and Mand at the same time. Um they they came very much hand in hand. And if if anyone watching this is still of a belief that the missed drops on D Day were because they weren't very well trained or they were cowards or whatever, don't buy into it. Read the book. If you can if you can get a copy of the book, read it and you'll change your mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Yeah, absolutely. And I think going to these airfields, these the DD airfields, I think, you know, I think it'll only generate interest in wanting to read your books to find out more. Um and having you there as well will promote the subject, you know. And I know well, I want to read anyway. I don't even hear you, you know, you know, I haven't we haven't done it yet because I want to know more because it's just fascinating. Um because I again I want to move away. I don't know about you, but when it comes to um history, you know, I think with the Banda Brothers effect, we can absolutely get absorbed into the 101st. You know, I see you've got the 101st patch, you know, but you know, but by the side of you behind you, I've got a patch here which was gonna go on my M42, but I I've decided no, that's gonna, you know, an 80-second patch is gonna go on there. Um you know, for you know, for the local history, you know, for myself, and because I think, well, that's where I'm from, and that's what I'm really proud of. So I kind of want to know more. So I want to make that a little bit different. I've got an M43, which is got 101st patch on, so it's it's fine. Yeah, um, so yeah, you know, it's it's that, and I think it can open up, I think reading uh troop carry can just for me, it just it's a rabbit hole, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

And I think it just yeah, 100%. You know, and these were guys that were in the UK for a long time. So if you are, you know, if you if you do live in the UK, um, you know, amazing history on on your doorstep, basically. Yeah, um, you know, especially when you when you look at airfields like Greenham Common, which again is a nature reserve now, so you can literally walk where these guys are. I mean Greenham Common is an airfield where again, you know, a medal of honour winner flew from Greenham Common, you know. So so it it it it's amazing history, and you you are walking in the footsteps of some seriously you know heroic, heroic gentlemen that have sort of uh passed um come before us. So um, yeah, it's all still really good history.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

It is, it is, mate. And you know, and and we'll go there, we'll go with this couple of spots. Um, you know, we'll have reenactors with us. I'll see if we I think we've got a couple of eighty second, I'll have to find out. Um, you know, and and we're gonna go to some really, really cool spots. We're gonna do some, you know, um, we're gonna walk airfields, you know, there's a museum opening, you know, this thing, you know, it's gonna be class, mate. And I'm really looking forward to it. Like I said, it's not the sexy stuff of the battles, it's the build-up, it's the a day in the life of, you know, where they were, what they did, you know, little look, those just little stories of this is where this happened, this is where that happened, and this is where they trained, or this is, you know, how you know, just a day in a life effectively for all the various units. And hopefully there'll be a little backstory as well, you know. Sorry, not backstory, even a story about what they got up to then. This is where I was hoping to find out, you know. I'm sure Ben Main, you know, is going to be obviously all over that with that, and yourself with the Airfield stuff. I think it's gonna be absolutely phenomenal. The Airfield actually in the 80 seconds, so yeah, I'm really, really excited about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Yeah, it should be good. Yeah, it'd be really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:19

Nah, looking forward to it, mate. And yeah, what I'll do is I'll put the links in for overload publishing, you know, and the direct link to your books when I put it on uh our Patreon as well as on when I put her on Instagram as well and the socials. Um pleasure, mate. Can't wait to sort of hook up and and do that. You know, that thing we should put, you know, go into the marshalling camps of task force uh C slash hour. Really looking forward to it, mate. And uh mate, speak to you soon. Yeah, cheers. Cheers, buddy.