Author and Veteran - Geraint Jones

Geraint Jones is a Welsh author of historical books best known for his books Blood Forest series. He served with the Royal Welsh and saw action in Afghanistan and Iraq. For his exemplary service in Iraq, Geraint was awarded General Officer Commanding’s Award and was later selected for the Reconnaissance Platoon. Upon completion of his service in the military, Geraint worked as a guard to protect commercial shipping against Nigerian and Somali based piracy.

Who has published books on WW2 titled Voices of Victory and D-Day, The Unheard Tapes, available to buy from Amazon and his website www.geraintjonesmedia.com

Geraint also hosts a podcast called Veteran State of Mind, please check him out on Instagram and Facebook by searching for @veteranstateofmind and @grjbooks

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Uh good evening, good afternoon, or even good morning. Uh welcome to the We Happy Few 506 History New Doorstep Podcast. And I am pleased to announce I've been dying to get this guy on for a while is Guerrant Jones, author, veteran, podcaster, dreamweaver, and hopefully actor sooner. Did you get that reference by the way?

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Yeah. Mate, you only messaged me about this a couple of hours ago. What are you on about trying to get me on for ages?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Well, I mean, it's it's all about uh courage, isn't it? Well, I think I think we should have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

I'm stitching you up, mate. I'm stitching you up. I'm stitching you up.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

I think we spoke about it back in um A SSI Gallery, didn't we? Having you on. Um, I think I was going through a bit of a transition in about what to do. I think I'd only done like one or two, and I think I was like slowly building my confidence up. Um, but you did a brilliant, I think obviously we've been chatting for a while. Um, somehow, some you know, and bizarrely, I don't know how we got started. Um, but obviously finally meeting you at ASI Gallery, and you did a brilliant presentation, by the way. Um, I say brilliant, yeah. I'm forgetting the regiment. I should know the regiment. Is it one to say the Royal Welsh or the Royal Welsh?

SPEAKER_03 1:03

That was my regiment. Yeah, that was that was my regiment. And I'm glad that talk came across well, mate, because you know, obviously, we're both Welshmen. The day before was England England battering us in the first game of the Six Nations. We needed that, yeah. Yeah, I well, we needed that, and I also um I doubt quite a few. Uh Wrexham also lost that day, so uh maybe drank a little bit more than I should today the day before, but I was a bit nervous, mate. And then the well, that was the thing. The the you always get always get a bit nervous doing public speaking, and then you get the you get that little surge of adrenaline, and it's like, well, I'm right, let's go here. But it's it's funny as well because when I saw you then, that was the 8th of February, which was the British Army's beginning of the battle to get into Germany, and now we're uh a bit behind. I think we're about 10 days or so after the end of the campaign. But yeah, since I last seen you, it's kind of bracketed that anniversary of that campaign pretty much perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Well, I I mean it was brilliant, mate. It was I mean, I'm trying to remember obviously what you spoke about, but I do remember going and I should have taken notes. I obviously sounds terrible when I say this. I'm trying to remember even when I'm saying it's brilliant, yeah. I'm trying to remember what it was about, and I'm hoping you know you'll refresh me because I you know it was I just remember going bloody hell, like why are you not doing battlefield tours on this subject? It's just utterly phenomenal.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Um so interesting. The reason for that, mate, is because I'm banned from driving in Germany because uh when I when I went to do my recis for the for the book, you know what it's like, you're trying to look around, you're trying to, you know, you've got your accounts, so you you know, people have mentioned certain landmarks, so you're looking for those because it's not like France where everything's as monuments here and information boards, there's nothing in Germany for it for you know reasons that you can probably understand. Um so yeah, you're looking at around a lot, and um it's very easy to pick up tickets there quite quickly. And uh apparently, if you just pick up enough of them there, you get a temporary ban for a couple of years. But um, I would I would love to do the the tours, mate, particularly on Germany. Um, I mean, look, there are some fantastic. I I made use of a great guy called uh Roll Deckers, um Dutch, former Dutch Army uh Ryan Battlefield Tours if anyone's interested. Not affiliated sponsor, he's just a really good guide. Uh and he took us around for a couple of days. But it's something I'd like to do. It's mean I've offered I've I've reached out to certain regiments and stuff to to um to offer it, you know, not you know, not as a paid service, but as a something that we should be doing because um you know, kind of maybe jumping ahead a little bit here, but when I went out to the 80th anniversary of the battle of uh sorry, the um the anniversary of Operation Veritable, which was the break-in battle for Germany for the British Army, uh, I went to the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery, where there's seven and a half, around seven and a half thousand British and Commonwealth um forces, uh forces personnel buried there. About half, it's about a half split between mostly bomber command and the army soldiers who were killed in the campaign in Germany. And we were the only people there, it was me, a couple of mates who was roll our guide. Um, no one there from the army leaning a wreath, no one there from the RBL lean a wreath. Um it's sad, mate. Uh, and I always think with these things, you know, you can get angry about it and say, well, people should be doing this, or you can make an effort. So this year when we did the talk at Aces High, which you know it was great for them to have us down, really good day. Great to meet people down there to have it was great, but it was a great group of people. But I thought, well, last, you know, the year before, there'd been four of us at the cemetery. Now, okay, granted, the next year we're not at the cemetery, but now there's you know a room full of us, good-sized room full of us talking about it, learning about it. And I thought if you just keep doing that year on year and other people start carrying the word before you know it, hopefully, I don't think it will ever get the Arnhem treatment or the D-Day treatment. And again, it's understandable. It's uh it's a much easier sell convincing people to organise trips to Normandy in June than it is to the Reichsfold Forest in February. You know, there's a reason it was such a horrible battle, and a big reason that was the weather, right? So it's a tough sell. But at the end of the day, the way I see it, almost every regiment in the British Army, you know, with the amalginations and stuff now, was represented there. There's absolutely no reason that there should not be contingents from even if it's not every regiment, every kind of arm of the army should be represented down there. So hopefully we can make that change, mate. I think that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

No, I would do I I really could sort of a line of question that you mentioned Arn you mentioned uh Normandy as well. Um that talk, I did speak to Ben Ben Main at Ledger, you know, does a lot of touring with Ledger, and um I should have chased up about it because he he was interested, and he's that kind of guy as well. He he obviously enjoys he knows obviously there's a market for the American action, which obviously is very popular with tourists, but he also is very proud and very passionate about British World War II history. And and I I I'll I'll I'll send him a message later to reach out to you to discuss that. Um, because he was interested, and if he's somebody who can talk to Ledger as well, um, who facilitate battlefield tours, he he'll be able to sort of help you out. Um, because they do all sorts of tours, and I think they have like a really good customer base. Uh, I think it's because of their affordability um as well, where you know he might be able to help you. Um, and and certainly that because I think your talk was brilliant. I mean, it was so engaging and it was so in-depth, and you were so you could tell you were passionate about it as well. And I suppose it's it's a shame. I think it is a shame because they go to you know, when I was in the Air Force, we did a staff ride. Um, or when it's my probably my only staff ride really um was to Bastard. I just got back from QA. I have a big band of brothers fan, and we went to we we finished off in Amsterdam to do um, we went to visit Anne Frank's house, or supposedly it was closed, so we went can't remember what we did in the end. Um I wonder we did but uh we went we did all the American stuff in in Belgium, we did nothing British whatsoever. And I've if I remember rightly, I want to say this. Apologies if I get this wrong, but I want to say that the R the RAF regiment that was involved in the Battle of the Bulge, and obviously as well as other you know British regiments, but we did nothing of that, we just did 101st Airborne. And and if you're getting taught that from within the forces, right? It's it's a shame. Um, the army, the air force. I don't know about the navy. I mean, I like to think that they, you know, certainly the Royal Marines go and visit you know commando sites, um, you know, with it commando operations, which is a great one, which Jeremy Clarkson um there's a documentary on on YouTube. You'll have to remember the name of that one. It's phenomenal where they ran the ship into the dock. A bit of a tangent there, but that's phenomenal. Um, but certainly when I did a staff ride, um the attraction was obviously Bastone, Bander Brothers, you know, being a Bander Brothers fan. Um, and again, very an away. I think at the time, I suppose my focus of reading was I was reading a lot of modern warfare stuff that a lot of stuff that was coming out of Iraq, um, even some of the early Afghan books as well. But obviously, when it came to World War II, it was airborne, if I'm honest. And that trip could have triggered something in my brain and gone, the British were in the bulge. So it's so I think when we hear see well, who knows? Even this Tom Hanks documentary that comes out, I like to think it might highlight the British in during the Battle of the Bulge, but we were there.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

I mean, no, nothing else that Tom Hanks has done is highlighted the British. So I mean, I love I love Tom Hanks, mate. Don't get me wrong, I think I think what he's done for World War II is has been incredible. But let's be honest, the British, if they're ever mentioned, it's only we gotta rescue them or they've fucked up. Oh shit. Did I can I swear on this podcast? Because I just think twice. Um, yeah, it's it's never a glowing report, is it? I mean, it's like you know, there's a chance in saving Private Ryan that you know there's British landing craft taking rangers in and troops on there, and could it would they kill them to have a British land, you know, landing craft operator? Um, and then you know, the Greyhound, it's the British um the British ships just bugger off and chase the subs and leave the the park. Um saving Private Ryan. The one reference to the British is that Monty's not moving on carn as if you know, never mind the fact that we're taking on all the SS Panzer divisions up there, you know. Like let's let's leave out that.

unknown 9:29

Then back.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

You might be able to I I'm I'm always learning and I'm always I like absorbing information, but I saw a diagram or a drawing, you know, of a map of Normandy, and it had you know the British sector, the American sector, the Canadian sector, and had arrows of which German forces were in which area. And I think there was one arrow, you know. Please correct me if I'm wrong, one one you know, one arrow for each American sector, then for the British sector. What if I did? But it's just like we were up against a lot going off that diagram. I mean, I try to remember very sorry, isn't but you're right. If it's sorry, going off what you're saying is we were up against a lot. Sorry to interrupt you there, mate. Yeah, no, I mean not at all.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

But it's it's like look, at the end of the day, it's team effort. As much as we love having banter between Americans and British or the RAF and the army, it takes everyone to do the job. And you mentioned the Navy as well on the on the kind of the battlefield tour side of things. They were involved in like the Rhine crossing operations, you know, in Germany and stuff. And it's you know, it's it's always try-service, mate, even if it's not constantly, at some point it is, and and might hate to admit this, but we all rely upon each other at some point, you know. There's that and it's it you know, it goes further than that, it's that chain all the way back to who's making the bullets, who's stitching your clothes, you know, it's everyone uh is involved at some point. But I'm an infantry soldier, so I'm always gonna say that. It's if you need anyone to see infantry. So just one thing as well, though. I I totally agree with what you were saying about the that not getting the introduction to it, because if you look at the paras, you know, um, I've never been to Arnhem for the um for the like the anniversaries there, but I mean I know I you know I know a lot of paras, they've told me what it's like, and I I think the fact that they have that regimental identity and and culture with that means that that will probably always keep going on, yeah. Whereas um, you know, for me being first the Royal Welsh Fusileer and then in the Royal Welsh, um I I don't remember ever getting told about the Reichswald Forest or taught about that kind of thing. Uh and we did battlefield tours, don't get me wrong, but it was to first world war battlefields, which is obviously very important too. But I I just didn't really know really much to do with this whatsoever. Um so um I think there are certain regiments, well, the paras who do the history thing very well, and maybe that's because they're a newer regiment, and so it's a lot easier for them to do it when their history basically is World War II's, right? So um, whereas you know, you take the role Welsh, you know, like which which battle are you gonna pick? Well, you can know you could you could literally if you look at warfare for the last 300s and what would we be at this point, 300 and something years. You can we got you know, we got I mean China, you've got South Africa, you've got um all over uh uh you know, all the um the Revolutionary War, War of Independence, whichever side you were on in America, all over Spain, all over pretty much all over Europe.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

So I did not know about America.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Oh mate, uh the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, I believe, um were the only regiment, British Army regiment present at every one of the major engagements in the American Civil War. Uh not Civil War, sorry, the American Revolutionary War, War of Independence.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Wow. Um, literally, I just as you were saying that then about the Royal Welsh and the battles, which one do you choose? Um and you mentioned South Africa.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Obviously, it straight in my head it came up Brockstrift, but I saw that the the the was it the Royal Welsh, I'm sure, you know, had did um uh do they go down to exercise down to South Africa or but they're they go there's a every year there's uh every year they go down for um a commemoration. Um not the whole battalion, but like a contingent goes down every year, which again is great, but you know, come on, we've got Germany across the across the across the across the channel, you know. Driving on the battery, check some lads, check some lads. But at the end of the day, you know, I know they're a very busy regiment and stuff. Um I think a lot of times, uh having been a reservist myself, I think that reservists should pick up the slack on a lot of this stuff because you know that it is a very high tempo for Reiker battalions, we're a very small force. Um, so you know it's it's something for maybe comrades' associations and stuff. And they do do a lot of this. I'm not trying to insinuate that they don't. Um, but the fact of the matter is on the 80th anniversary of Operation Vitable, no one was there.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, no, that's a shame. I mean, it's it's incredible that you were there. At least that's something that these guys aren't forgotten. And I think that talk, Erasus Guy Gallery, you know, certainly, you know, I'm so glad you've met. I should have, you know, written it down. I think I just you know, a lot going on at the time. But yeah, you know, certainly I thought, man, this is incredible. This is you know, even as a Welshman myself, I was like, this is phenomenal. I need to know more about the Welsh regiments um in World War II, not just you know the British. I want to know more about the Welsh as well. Um, and and you know, you talk about um reserves, you know, I after you know, being one myself and and you know, we try and do some force development. I did one, I planned when to bomber command last year, which was a lot of fun. I mean, again, it's just like which base do you go to? And obviously, giving stories to people, you know, to stands or topics for them to sort of research. Um, and it was great, you know, because we went up to I never really explored Lincolnshire myself, but there's it certainly certainly fed into me about, you know, I need to look into more of Bomber Command here. This is phenomenal. Um, and even last year I was into the I went into you know the RAF archives at Northold and seen what they had, my god alive. It was just like this is unbelievable. And they had a few books there they use for references that I immediately bought myself um to learn more about the RAF history because there's a lot. Um and and it's it's right. And I think there's a lot I think we need to do more of that. You're right, and I think you're right. The par is I think it's because I suppose those battles are probably celebrated, you know, and and I think people forget about you know, um, you know, varsity, um, variable, you know, what you've just said as well. You know, I think it it's just I mean, are there any books out there on Operation Variable?

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Uh Veritable, yeah, that that is mate.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Veritable is sorry, veritable.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

We we we interrupt this podcast to allow my cat into the office, please bear with me. Yeah, any self-respecting author has to have a cat, so yeah, there's some uh there's two historians who I I used for um the kind of the bones of the German well not the bones, I shouldn't say that, they're a lot more detailed books than that. Um but for my framework of um doing the book about the campaign in Germany. Um Tim Saunders, he's a former British Army officer himself. Um I found his books very useful, and John Russell, who is actually another former British Army uh officer. Um I think that but I think both of them were based out there at certain points. Uh Tim Saunders does load he's done loads of books. Um John Russell, uh he has two books out about the campaigns, particularly. So I leaned very heavily on Tim Saunders for um the Operation Veritable, um, and then more on John Russell for the so essentially once the British army had crossed the River Rhine, the Germans would form defence lines along the rivers, which unfortunately for them were just kind of um giving these lovely natural obstacles for them to to to uh to kind of uh put their defences behind. So there was also the river, the Veser and the River Allah, um and then uh the River Elbe as well. So uh John Russell's books on uh on the battles that take place around the river Vaser and Allah were very very useful. And what I love about both books is that as well as giving you the top-down view, they interspersed them both with um accounts from people who were there. And John Russell had made a lot of these contacts and interviews himself. Um, so you know, there were people who'd been alive in some of these battles and civilians, you know, German civilians who he was able to interview and things, and you know, like now you can't find any of that, can you? Everybody's gone. Um so what he was able to to um to what he's been able to encapsulate uh is fantastic. So I'm in the debt of those two gentlemen, especially. Um, and then another author I lean quite heavily on was uh Patrick Delaforce. Now I find him fascinating because he's written loads of divisional histories um on the Second World War. And um, you know, he you could, I mean, I would love to have seen this guy's library, but he's got all these, he you know, he's referencing all these memoirs that maybe came out and there was 200 copies of them printed after the war. I like because I've been every you know, I'll go first. I'm going to the bibliography of these books, and like, right, which ones can I get for myself? And most of them, they're not that we're not even talking, there's not even copies available online. The internet has no knowledge of these books, like that's how kind of rare they are. So the quotes he has from those kind of books are fantastic. But what I find fascinating about him is that he was actually an officer in the campaign. Um, he was uh, I think um like a uh basically like an artillery kind of control party uh officer. He's got blown up a couple of times. Unfortunately, you know, he went through all those experiences like you do, losing friends, being in combat and everything. I think he was awarded the MID, if not twice, at least once, uh, mentioning dispatches. Um so uh yeah, and I just I find that amazing to be able to read the history from him in particular because he was there, you know, and you could tell he's um you could tell when you read this stuff, you could tell he was there, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

That's incredible. I've just been writing down what you're saying, you know. Club these guys up. I do exactly that. You know, I you know, if I'm reading about something, I was like, you know, look at the bibliography, where do they get this information from? Because you know that that's gonna have more information. But these books that they've referenced are gonna have more and apps, earlier, you know. I think it's and like it says the internet sometimes doesn't tell you it because they haven't documented it. And I think it's always quite surface level, and people forget it as well. They don't look in the archives, um, you know, of you know, of say that you know, NARA, you know, the you know, the National Archives, or because you know the type in talk pops up in Google, but Google only does a quick search of what's out there, they don't actually look into like the Library of Congress has some amazing information on Welsh history, which you know I'm sure you'll probably find fascinating as well, certainly being up north, because you know, we spoke about you know the um the what knowing the war of independence, etc. And you know, and I try to think who you know which presidents were around at that time, but you know, my god alive, you know, there's a lot of Welsh history in the Library of Congress in the United States. Um, but you type it into Google, nothing shows up. Because and I think it's probably the same ability, you know, of World War II books, like what you've just said in is it probably hasn't been recognized, and and it it's people just look at it and go what's on the side the research, I hate to say it.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Yeah, I mean it's got to be inputted at some point, isn't it? So and like so if you've had this veterans come back and he's written a book and he's had it published through the Regimental Association and they ran off 200 copies for his friends, you know, then there's you know, we know what it's like with books over over 80 years, there's probably hardly any of them surviving. Uh the Roe Welsh Fusileer Museum, they do have um, and I'm sure this is probably the same for a lot of museums. I think they're very good at kind of getting hold of these copies, and and the Raw Welsh Fusile Museum in particular has been very good to me in in giving me um uh like you know PDF copies of some of these books and things, which is which is great. Um, they've been very helpful. I mean, as what's it's you know, I'm I I don't I don't really consider myself a historian, right? I think I'm myself as a soldier who is is interested in telling the stories of other soldiers. So as such, you know, like every time I do a book, it's a massive learning curve. Um one of the things if I could go back and before I started doing these World War II books and say, Well, what do you want to know? I'd say contact regimental museums. Um, contact regimental museums and look at the shops of regimental museums. Because if there is like because like I, you know, for the fourth wheelchairs, for instance, you know, I I did what research I could on the fourth wheelchairs. Picking parts out of different books, listening to interviews that were available, all that stuff. And then it's just after it kind of like after the book had been finished, I went on their website. I can't remember how I ended up down that rabbit hole and why I never went down it in the first place. Um, it seems so obvious now. And they had this book written by a couple of the company commanders. You could tell it being written because a lot of these regiments, you know, they went into uh occupation duties at the end of the war, and I think a lot of these blokes realized look, we've been through something that needs documenting here, we've got everyone together, we've got this time on our hands now. Let's write it while we're on duty. So they're so fresh. And I got this book called The Maroon Square, which is about oh mate, what a book! And I was reading it, and oh mate, it was it was a weird one because I'm so enjoying reading it, and I'm so happy to have that book. And it was able to, I was able because there was this Sergeant Jenkins, and he kept coming up this Sergeant Jenkins in the interview of one of the officers who survived the war. And I wanted to know more about him, and then I started reading the book, and then I found a few references to the Sergeant Jenkins and and stuff. He won the military medal, and um, you know, and I actually ended up connecting with um his his grandson saw one of the articles I wrote about him actually in connections recently, which was incredible. Um but you know it's it's when you get something like that, and then but of course, there's the other part of you, it's like, God, I wish I'd had this book. But this is a this is like kind of part of the problem, dude. Like when I wrote Voices of Victory, the book was supposed to be 100,000 words long. My first draft was 200,000 words because you just oh wow, you know. So I I do think as well, there's like at some point you have to cut yourself off as from sources because you know you don't. I mean, I it's it's horrible when you have to trim a book like that because you you you're having to cut people's words out. These are the words of veterans and stuff, and you feel like you're you know, not silencing them because that those words are still on the interviews available, but it's just you know, it's it's it's different from like you're let's say you've written your fiction book 20,000 words too long, you need to trim it, who cares? But when it's the word that's all you know, that's it's the last thing you want to trim. So I gotta be honest, my editor has to be the bad guy in those situations, and she has to take the hat into it because I'm a bit too attached. But um, but yeah, I mean it's it's one of the things like about writing a book is to write a book, you've got to read a library, I think is a good um kind of way of of of um thinking about it. Um and look at the end of the day, if you can put uh if you can put books about the second world war against your taxes, then you've got to take advantage of that opportunity. Get as many as you can.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

No, absolutely. I mean, I mean the maroon scale, I I've got it. Um I can ask you a question because I'm I'm I'm I've got a signature in there, and I don't know if it's a pre-print one. I don't know if you've if you've got a thing similar, like in one of the earlier. I'll have to send you a picture of it, mate. Um, I don't know if you've got like a signature in there, like in the in the one of the first few pages, or might actually just might have that. Uh I'll I'll send you a picture then because I I'm very like is this like a print of a signature or is this an actual signature? Um and yeah, I've got um one of my probably um I don't know, it's just uh um what's it I want to say cherish, but it's a certain book. I'm like, wow, it's um return to Mandalay, and it was um Slim's book, it belonged to Slim, signed by four veterans of that campaign. What signed by the author? It was from the author to Slim, Field Marshall Slim, Bill Slim. Picked up from London a few years ago. Uh yeah, I couldn't believe it. I was like, uh yeah, I'll have that.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Um I was got a dust cover though, so one kidney or two, like you know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Well, no, actually it wasn't, it was uh probably a finger. Um but it was it's right, it was quite reasonable. But I think again, it's probably uh hatched in London. Um next to Fortner Mason, you know, I was going there to pick up some bit nice biscuits. Um was it Hatchards or pop in there and had like this amazing, like you know, classic book section, and there's um there's a couple on there's one on the Blitz, and there's um for somebody who was a member of Parliament. Um I'll have to dig that out, you know. I was like, I was like flipping egg, like this is incredible. Just clear the shelf, didn't you? Just came in and cleared it out. Yeah, no, not far off, but the one boat slim. I was like, yeah, I love this one. This is pretty like he's he's a you know big personality. Like flipping egg, I guess belong to him. Like, and yeah, it's it's phenomenal. Um, but yeah, the the the maroon square one, I'll send you a picture of what I have because I I'm curious to whether it's an original signature or whether it's um just a printed one. It it's I can't remember where I picked it up from. Probably from a second-hand bookshop. It probably cost me a couple of things.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Was it was it another was it is it like a do you reckon it's one of the original prints, or do you reckon it's one of the because the one I got is like it's quite, it's obviously like a new print, it's got quite a glossy cover and stuff. Is yours?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

No, I think it's an original print. It's quite papery. Yeah, it's quite um a couple of quid, mate. It's like I can't remember how I found it. I can't remember where I got it from. Like I can't remember if it was from like going to Malvern Militaria or like oh, was it a bookshop in town where I live? I just I just can't remember where I got it from. I picked her up and I thought it sounds quite interesting.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

I've got I've got a few books like that, mate, that I've I've bought in to do research to to use the books for research. And let's say it's like a divisional history or whatever, because you know, a lot of these divisions they had their histories written at the end of the tour. And like, so I'll buy it in for research, and I open the first page and it'll be signed such and such. Sorry, I've got a cat hair flying everywhere. It'll be signed such and such, and then it'll have their regiment and their number, and then you're like, Well, I can't use this for research now, can I? This is going in the find another copy. This but it's an honor, isn't it? It's an honor to hold to know that you're that person served. And the thing is, uh at the end of the day, I do there's always a part of me when I see medals for sale or books for sale, there's a part of me that thinks that's really sad. But the flip side of that is well, if if they're descent, like one, they might not have had descendants, but if their descendants didn't want it, well, it's ended up with someone who does love it and does treasure it and is going to honour it, and and it's probably gonna pass it down to someone else who's gonna honor it. So I think in a way that like a lot of this memorabilia stuff, I I've kind of flipped my thinking on it from thinking, I mean, it is still sad that someone's family wouldn't want old onset. There's no two ways about that, in my opinion. But at the end of the day, if it ends up with someone who cherishes it, like the only thing I I'm always a bit, you know, I do think there's um, I think there's like this is a bit of a tangent here, but I was thought, you know, you ever seen these programs where they dig people up from the past and then they're like, oh, we've got to dig them up and do a documentary about it, and then they just put that person in a cardboard box and they're going to story to the museum or somewhere. You know, I think I always say it like that really, really weird thing. But and I I kind of feel that as well. It's like there's a you know, if if some of these places, you know, they take so much stuff in that it never sees the light of a day and it's just in a box, and that is a bit sad as well. But if it's someone's kind of private collection, they've got it up on the wall, you know, and they think about the person, they tell visitors about the person, that's great because you're keeping that person's memory alive, you know. And that's it's like you know, it's the whole thing in it, person dialogue. So I was just gonna say, you know, so go on, mate. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Oh no, no, no, you carry them. Sorry, mate. So I think we've got a lag, mate. Oh, you go, you go very well. But no, I you're right, no, because um, a former colleague of mine, um, back in January, um, she'd been mean to give me for a while because she knew I had an interest in World War II. Um, and I don't I don't think I ever talked about her that much in work. Um, but she gave me her grandfather's or the great-grandfather's medals and his letters, and he was in the Worcestershire. Or certainly, you know, um, and I, you know, you talk about you know Regimental Museums, they're wonderful. I went to the Gloucestershire one on the weekend, and there's a book on you know, discovered by Imgen Barracks is called Imgen Barracks. You know, it's got Imgen, Battle of Imgen, you know. Um, but you know, yeah, I emailed Worcestershire Museum, Regiment Museum, and you know, she's able to give me a little bit more information. But you know, there's letters in there, there's medals, and I think I need to do something with this. It's in the original box. I thought I've got to do something with this, you know, it's stored safely because I think I've just times you know home life's gotten away or personal, I know, but I want to look further into this guy's history. There's there's a couple of photos in there, she doesn't know which one he is. Um, so I've got to make a trip up to the Worcestershire Regiment as well, you know, museum as well, and see what they know. But it says, You're right. And I think when you go to military phase, it is it's it's heartbreaking to see these, you know, they call them groupings, don't they? And um for sale, and you're like, why are you getting rid of that? But there's obviously a reason, and obviously, I know collectors, you know, these sorry, um, people sell them because obviously they bought them to sell on, which is okay, is what it is, but you know, you like you like to think that people are buying them because they want to know about that chap.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

I mean, and to some people as well, mate. Like to some squad, these I suppose you and me put so much stock in this stuff that we almost like, well, I'm speaking for both of us, I should just speak for myself here. We assume that that veteran would care. Maybe they told them themselves, maybe they didn't care. Like, but you know, there's always that as well. Some people maybe just don't it didn't mean that much to them either, you know. So I shouldn't put these assumptions on. Um, but um, but generally speaking, though, yeah, it's um it's nice. And the thing is, mate, well, like that situation you've got with the box and stuff now, even if you can't, even if it never turns out that you have the time to get to the bottom of it, you know, you will be a good caretaker for that and you will pass it on to someone who someone who is. Because the whole idea is that we're not just remembering this for the next, you know, for the 1800 years. Hopefully, it's gonna be 500 years down the line, people still talking about the second world war and researching these people.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

No, absolutely. I mean, I I've got stuff I want to print in a museum. I think um, which was huge during the World War II company flew from for market garden. And a couple of months ago I picked up a stable door from Alborn off someone. Um, like he recovered from and they they got demolished uh in Hightown. If you've ever been there, you know, which is right next to the blue boar. And and I could easily keep that in my sh, you know, man shed and you know, just there wasted away. That's what a waste of a piece of history that you know that people would be really interested in seeing. I mean, there's one in Dakota, there's one in Little Coat, you know, obviously they're they're proper. No, this has been recovered. And I think so I spoke into Charlie, you know, who's you know working on the museum down there, and it's gonna get done, it's there because it's it's wasted. I mean, I've paid for it, you know, and uh but it's wasted with me because that needs it's it's only a stable door. Uh but a lot of people they can I suppose connect with something like that, you know, because certainly if they're a band of brothers fight or even a you know 101st airborne, and know that these guys where they slept, you know, members of Easy Company would have touched this door. It's wasted just with one person, if that makes sense. It needs to be seen by a lot of people, I think. Um and you know, you're talking about other books as well. You know, the three, you know, I was just digging this in while you were talking, I got this one as well. The first over you know, Germany. And um, if you can see that, it's about the 306 bomb group, but again, off eBay, it was on eBay, and it belonged to someone called Kermit Jerry Cavito, I hope that's right. And he's it was his book, he served in the 306. Wow. Um, and it's signed by the author, you know, but and he made little notes in it. Obviously, he hasn't signed himself because it's not he's made little notes in it to like sort of say, Oh, this is happening. Oh, this guy, he died here. Like, it's all little notes in it. We'll have to send a picture.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Do you know what I mean? It's just like you got Frank Armstrong, you know, he's the guy um 12 clock high was based on, and it's all little notes. Like it's like where's this one presented my first ear medal? He said his wife liked I can't even write that. Lived in those white apartments on can't make that out. Um, like all these little notes he's made on it, you know. My CO, my CO. Um this is his, you know, and like he was like, all these little notes, my squadron commander, my CO again.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

For the audio listeners, I just want to tell them how happy you're looking right now, mate. It's like all the Christmases have hit at once, and why not, man? I totally get it.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

You know, and and I suppose you know, how you're an infant here, you know, you eat crayons allegedly. Uh um, but how did you get into writing? You got well you know, yeah, I suppose, yeah. Do you ever always have an interest in World War II and and what got you to wrote, you know, write, you know, D-Day, the NHTs. I think it's your first one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

How did that how did that come across?

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Oh, well, I mean, that was the first World War II book, yeah. Um so really this kind of comes back to what I was saying about that. I consider myself a soldier telling stories about other soldiers. So I've always been interested in war and soldiers. Um you know, I've I I like to read your kind of big picture stuff. I like to know what's going on in campaigns and things. But what always really gripped me was memoirs like Vietnam memoirs, Second World War memoirs, first world war memoirs, especially, because those were the kind of ones that were around for me at the time. I mean, think about it when we were growing up, it probably wasn't, you know, um probably wasn't that long since a lot of the Vietnam ones have been published. I imagine they probably a lot of them came out in the mid 70s, early 80s and stuff. And I'd always be like, I think a lot of the same well the Vietnamers they're great as well because there's so much colour in them, I think. Um like you know, I think maybe that's like there is you know, when you read memoirs as well, you know, there is quite often a distinction between the British and the American ones in how how they're written. Um but I've I've always been I think I've been very lucky in life that I've always known what I wanted to do. Um, and I think there's a lot of people who who are always struggling with that question, I feel for them, because it must must be. But at least I know I wanted to be a soldier and I wanted to be uh an author, a writer. Um I also wanted to be a fast jet pilot when I was younger, but then as you as you've nicely pointed out, I'm a crayonier. And uh, you know, I'm pretty sure anyone who ever watched Top Gun wanted to be a fast jet pilot, of course, of course. I mean, why not, mate? So tangent. I was I saw Top Gun in the cinema on Monday night for the eight, it was the 40th anniversary, which is mental in itself. And I'm it was I watched it in a way that you know when you're young, you watch it in a different way because now I'm thinking it's not just oh flying planes is cool. I'm like, you get paid to live in San Diego in you get paid to live in San Diego in the 80s. Now that in itself is great, and I'm like, if we do live in the simulation, the top level of the simulation is probably Tomcat pilot living in San Diego in the 80s. I know, yeah, but yeah, back off the back off the of the off the off the tangent. So uh essentially, um, I wanted to be oh, like the idea was that I'd go to university, um, I joined TA when I was 17. Uh that's the like the British Army Reserves, um, as an infantry soldier instead of doing the officer training corps, because I was kind of told, look, you know, if the officer training club, a bit of a piss-up um boys' club, the TA, you'll actually do a bit of soldier and stuff. And it was back in the days where the platoon commander still had like a radio operator, so it's like, right, stick a radio on your back, you can follow the platoon commander around and you'll learn about things, and then when you finish uni, go to Sandhurst and then go and join the battalion. But then while I was at uni, Iraq happened, and some of my friends started going to Iraq who were like in the TA with me, and you know, it sounded quite fun. And I was just, I was, I thought, you know what? It's this is the funny thing. Um, with hindsight, I was like, well, I need to get out to one of these places before the war's over, not realizing that Afghanistan would be 20 years, Iraq was what best part of 10 years. So, but at the time that and it's you know, it's one of the things when I read memoirs and stuff now, a lot of the time it comes up like, oh, we were just worried it was gonna be over before we got there. You know, I think that's something that's probably soldiers have had throughout history. So um I thought it will also make me better officer if I've gone through a tour as an enlisted soldier, I'm gonna be a better officer because of that. Um, anyway, so I went out to Iraq in 2006. I didn't like there was a lot going on, but I always felt I always kind of put it like this I was on the team, but I was on the bench, is how I felt like a lot of you know, like is how I felt a lot about it. And having been a mediocre sports person, I spent a lot of time on the team and on the bench. So I you know, it's kind of the story of my life, really. So um, I was like, well, I didn't I want to get off the bench. Um and at the time the British Army was really struggling with numbers, so it was it put soldiers in a rare position, which is actually gives you some leverage to decide what you want to happen with your life, which is not usually how the army works. So I said I want to stay out on back-to-back deployments and be in one of the armored um the armored battalion because the Royal Welsh was coming out, 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh was coming out in the Warriors, which are like armored fighting vehicles. For any Americans listen, they're kind of like the Bradleys. Um, it's pretty similar. So I stayed out with them. Um, and um it's kind of funny because they thought they all thought that I'd taken over, um, that I'd been in the armoured battalion that they'd taken over from. They didn't know that I'd been in this like force protection company. So they're like, Well, you're experienced, you can go in the lead warrior, um, and you know, you know the ground and everything. I didn't even know how to open the fucking door, but it just don't you don't say anything, do you? So I'd um I went out with there with them with that tour. Um, and then kind of by this point, I was going off the idea of officer anyway. I was quite enjoying being enlisted, and um then I went out I I went back out then to went out to Afghanistan in 2009. Um and then I was I was quite happy. I stayed off for a couple, I was there for a couple of years, um, went to Reiki Patoon, did the PTI course, physical training instructor course, got to hang out in the gym with my boys, ass around all day, look in the mirrors, use copious amounts of hair gel. It was fantastic. Um, and I and I I I think I would have liked to have done one more Afghan tour if I could have my time again. But I at the time I didn't know there was one coming up. I thought that was probably it for us. So um, and as much as I did enjoy being in the gym, well, I got you know, my options were um if you sign back on, we're sending you to Brecon, you know, to do your full screws of your corporal's course and section commanders course. I thought, I don't really fancy the sound of being a Brecon, crawling around the streets, thanks very much. I'll go and work in a in a gym. So I went to work in a gym. Um, and then I'd worked there for a few months. I was really enjoying it. It was a great time. I don't know if you remember when the Crusaders rugby team were up here in North Wales. I do, I do, yeah. Yeah, so it was actually a very good transition for me because the the lads were they were working out in the same gym where I was, so it was like being around, you know, because rugby players are very much like squaddies. Um so it was a nice kind of transition, but then they the the um the gym closed without notifying anyone, so I was out of a job, but I'd run into one of my old, really oldest, oldest mates out in town one night, and he'd been telling me about the work that he was doing on uh on ships doing security around Somalia and that kind of thing. Uh, and it got me a job, so I started doing the ship security. Now, the reason this is all relevant um is because being on the ship then was the first time that I'd ever really had a chance to sit down and write because you have a lot of your time on your hands in the army, but it's not really the time to write because you you know you are a strategically shaped chimp living with other strategically shaped chimpanzees, so it's not a conducive writing environment. But when you're out at sea, you can't ask for better, you know. Um, there's a lot of time on your hands, there's no distractions, there's no internet, um, and there's a lot of time to because you know, the important thing about being an author is being able to stare off into the distance and you know, contemplate everything, and there's a lot of that going on, and then there's a lot of writing going on. So I was able to get into it quick pretty quickly. The first thing I wrote was um first book that I actually wrote was I I'd kept a journal in Afghanistan because I'd realised my mistake not doing that in Iraq. Um realized how quickly you forget things. And um I just the first book that I wrote just came out. It wasn't even it wasn't like sitting down writing something from start to finish, it was all all over the place, really, and then it kind of just came together. Um, and then I sent that book to agents, I got an agent, um, and um that got me the publisher, and and then the kind of career went through there, but yeah, it so to how this ties in with World War II books. Let's see, it would have been hang on, infantry brain working trying to do maths that is higher than five. Hang on, I'm gonna have to have ask my cat tell me. Um, so it was about eight years. Let's just say that. Maybe seven years, but I'd done a lot of books, almost everything I'd written. I'd always said I'm not gonna get never gonna get pictured old as a writer. Well, you fucking do, um, which is fine because I love what I do. So I'd I'd written I'd ghostwritten books, I'd co-written books, and I'd publish books under my own name. And um I got approached by a publisher saying, 'Look, you know, we've got the rights for doing this D-Day book. Would you be interested? Fucking right, I'm interested.' Um, and that was how I was able to jump into the World War II stuff. And um, because the big thing about publishers is obviously they're a business, they're looking to make money, and one of the things they want to do is they they want they need to market a book. So that's why whenever you see um books coming out around, say, the 80th anniversary of D Day, several D Day books come out, it's not that the author is just going, oh, I just want to try and cash in on a D Day thing. It's that or and it's not even that an editor is doing the same, it's that in order to get that book commissioned past the sales team, the market. Marketing team, etc. You have to convince them that look, there's going to be all this, it's going to be in the public consciousness. So now is the time to strike. And that's why that's why it is. Um, so you know, and that's so I was quite lucky with the D-Day one that I got to do that, and it it did it did really well, um, which was fantastic, and um, it's just a real honor to to work on it. Um, and then because it did well, I got the chance then to do a follow-up, and I um was very, very like well, I'll say this as well. I should rewind. The book's called D-Day The Unheard Tapes, but I feel yeah, there you go. I feel like a lot of people know about D-Day, but I don't feel like as many people know, and this is my include myself in this, people don't know about Hill 112, where the 43rd Wessex Division suffered thousands of casualties in 48 hours, you know. So I it's called D-Day, but it actually covers the entire Battle of Normandy because I think you know, when it would almost be like if let's say we were doing a book about um the raid on Osama bin Laden, right? It would almost be like doing the book about landing the helicopters and kicking the door in, and then that's where you end the book. It's like you still gotta clear, still gotta clear the rest of the house and everything, you know. Um, and you know, it was I I and I I do feel like a lot of this, you know, so there was really, yeah, D-Day itself was absolutely terrible, but there was loads of quote unquote D-Days after that, you know. And let's I don't I'll I'll I'm not gonna quote him exactly, but I'll paraphrase here a gentleman who landed on Utah Beach. He was saying, you know, yeah, landed on Utah Beach, didn't take casualties in my section and stuff, but the next day I lost half my men, you know, when they were clearing the causeways and stuff. And and and that's true for everything. You know, there's British Army regiments who like lost half the strength in a day, if if not more. Like places like Chateau de Londres, Adela Londe, brutal battles, quite often against Tigers, Panthers. And you know, that's this is the this is the thing, it's like yes, we have to remember D-Day always, but we have to remember the wider battle too. And then that brings me on to the Battle of Germany, where I feel like the Battle of Germany doesn't even have its D-Day moment, it's just almost entirely forgotten, which is kind of understandable because when the war finishes at the end of that campaign, if you've just been through the best part of six years of war, you're probably gonna want to just move on quickly and start celebrating the peace, right? So I get why there wasn't much code about it at the time. And um if you look like what like a lot of interviews done with veterans, you know, because these guys have been soaked through so much, by the time they get to hour five or six, they're knackered, they want a cup of tea, and probably to use the toilet. Um, the interviewers thinking the same, plus they've got a drive, maybe they've got a four-hour drive home. So you get to the end in the Germany, and it's it's kind of almost glossed over, but there's actually three months, there's three months there with a lot of combat in it. Um, and there's just not that much around on it in terms of sources and stuff. So because it was the 80th of V V E Day last year, we were able to sell it on this idea of it's a V E Day book, mate. It's half a page on V Day then there. It's a hundred and hundred and forty thousand hundred and fifty thousand words long, the book, and there's half a page on it's half a page on V E Day. Um, but that was how I was, you know, that was how we were able to get it. Me and me and Ed, my editor Ingrid. That's that was how we were able to and it worked, you know, the book did well. Um, but it was it was um I don't want to say it wasn't more meaningful for D-Day, that's not the right way of framing it. Um it felt it felt like I was doing something that mattered a bit more, if you know what I mean, because there are so many good books on D Day and stuff, and there are there are there are good books about Germany, there's just not many. So it felt like it was kind of contributing something a bit more, something that was missing a bit more, if you know what I mean. Yeah, that was a very long-winded answer to a very short.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

No, no, no, no, it's a great book. No, it's brilliant. I mean, you're right. I think you're spot on. Um I focus on uh on D Day. Um there's a huge focus on that, but there's not much on Germany in itself. So I think the more the better, to be honest here, because people need to highlight it, and again, it's it's getting in people's consciousness, and then you know, they'll know about it, they'll want to go and see it, and not only will they want to go and see it, they want to go and see it, those anniversaries and be where we were at that time as well. So I think it's a great thing to do, and I hope that people do go and do that, go and do that. Sorry, um, because we can't forget these things, you know. It's we we can't. Um, and and how so this book is in but you know, it's obviously endorsed by I believe it's in you know, an endor, you know, the Imperial War Museum and the National World War II Museum in New Orleans. I mean, how does it feel? I I have obviously if it's got that endorsement on there, it's gonna be sold over in New Orleans. How does it feel having you know this guy from Wrexham having a book over there?

SPEAKER_03 49:23

I think I think we need to I think we need to have a business trip out there to find out, mate. Yeah, um, I mean it feels great. I mean, the reason they're on the covers is because it was, you know, it's done in partnership. So their incredible archives um form the basis of the book, essentially. Like what I'm trying to do with these books is tell as much of the story as possible in the words of the people who are there. You and me both been to Afghanistan. I don't want the book told it like the story of Afghanistan told without any of the words of the people who are there, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so what I'm trying to do essentially is um I'm so fucking lucky you get to do this a job, mate. I get to listen to all these interviews, watch all these interviews, laugh, cry, um, you know, think wouldn't I want to be in that? And then other times I think I would have loved to have served with him. Like it's it's it's funny how many times that you're these blokes now in some of these interviews would have been 80 to 100 years old, and even so you're like, fucking hell, I'd love to have served under you. Do you know what I mean? Like just soldiers, soldiers, mate. And um, you know, their their archives provided it and and everything, and and that what I tried to do with the book as well. So D-Day is from as met like is from all different angles, nationality-wise. Uh Voices of Victory, I just concentrated on the British army. But what I tried to do is to pick up the the through lines of so if someone who was in um the Battle of Normandy was also in the Battle of Germany, I wanted to use that same person, and then hopefully one day I'll get to fill fill in the middle portion with the Holland stuff and all that as well. What I noticed though is that not many of them were, and the reason why was because so many of them were wounded, so they didn't, you know, like so unfortunately that's the thing. But to to get back to the point of the question, mate, is that yeah it feels incredible, like absolutely incredible. Um, I'm not being funny, mate. When I go to Morrison's and see the book in Morrison's, I get excited. So you always I I do as well.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

I get when I see your book, I'm like, I know that guy. Thanks, bro.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

You know, and I think it's amazing, mate. And I'll say this as well, mate. Like, when when when D-Day got to the number one spot, um, that had been something obviously like if you're an author, it's one of the things like to be honest, when you know there's your priorities change over time, but when you first start writing, it's what you want, isn't it? Go, oh, I want number one best uh. And when we got that, I did not react the way I thought I would do. Um, I actually got incredibly emotional. There's two things I was thinking. One, I think I was thinking about my grandparents in moments like that. I think I wish I could see it. And the other thing was I was moved because this was quite close on the back of visiting Normandy. This was a this was maybe two, two, three weeks after after visiting Normandy for the 80th. And to have been a part of that was incredible. And then I think I worry a lot, mate, about many things, and one of the things I worry about is people forgetting all of these wars, these soldiers. What I was worried what I worry about all the time, well, not all the time, but a lot. So when you've done that, you go, Oh, people give a fuck. Like it was something tangible. Like, obviously, D-Day had done that for me because I'd seen how many people there. I was already in a good mood anyway. Like, I was buzzing, still buzzing after being there, to be honest, mate. It was I think after going to that trip, I thought, ah, D-Day, D-Day's in safe hands. Because you look at the ages of the people there and you go, We're we're in safe hands here for a good while, is how I'd say it. Whereas, like, like I said, the Germany one had the total opposite effect on me. That actually sent me back, that actually flipped me back the other way then. Um, but um, yeah, it's just incredible to know, mate. It's a it's a massive honor, mate, getting to be a cog in an incredible machine that involves all the way from the editors to the blokes printing the books and stacking the books in Morrison's. You know, it's a chain of people, and be involved in that is fantastic. And I take it very seriously, mate. Like, I don't think I saw much daylight when I was working on on either book, um, which is how it should be. I don't I don't want to stop listening to the things, you know. I I don't want to stop listening, I don't want to stop working on it. Um, you you know, you know yourself, it's it's what drives you, you know. If I could have hundred hours in a day, I'd probably spend more, you know, be spending close to 100 hours a day on it. Unfortunately, we only get 24 of the boogers.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Um, I know it's a huge honor, isn't it, to remember you know, to do things like this. Talk about the Crusaders Crusaders, by the way. Going back to that quickly, before I forget that, they were based at my hometown before they moved to your hometown, by the way. Crusaders, Crusaders were, yeah. And obviously a lad I used to go to school with was with them before they joined the super league. I think I think he got cat when they um you know became a you know super league team. Um but you know, I was very proud to see them, you know, anyway. Um that's another thing.

SPEAKER_03 54:05

Um rugby and soldiering is is rugby and soldiering is this, mate.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

I know it is. It is you know, and and I think the army, I was god, I'd never wanted to play against the army because they were big guys, especially for Gans. Um but uh no, you're you're right. And and and I think it it's when you do something like this, and I think you know, from where we're from, it's quite an honor. I think it's quite a privilege, and I think it shows our dedication to it as well. I mean, like you with your book against number one, you know, and this is gonna be in the Imperial War Museum and the Wor National, you know, two percent, you know, and the World War II National Museum in New Orleans, two very prestigious museums in the world, and your book is there. That's a huge achievement, you know. That's a huge honor. That you know, this book, and I'm there in um end of July, and I will send you a picture if I see it, and I will post it as well. You know, because I think I'll I I can't wait to see it there. Don't tell me if it's not there, I'll be gutted. I won't, I won't, I'll lie. I'll probably lie, or I'll bring it up. Take a copy, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

But no, mate, it is you're you're you're dead on, mate. You're dead on.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

And um, you know, for me, like, you know, one of the greatest honors I've you know, this is gonna be there now for forever. And you know, even for me, like, you know, a boy from Bridgend, um you know, has got you know, or you know, helped create put a memorial in Genk for an American bomber. And I like to think it's gonna be there for a very, very long time. And I think to myself, my god, and obviously that's with the help of Reg Jans, the tour guide in we've used you know a few times, but still it was just a simple question, you know, can we do it? I think that's what you have to do sometimes is just is it possible? Can we do this? Can I do this? Can we do this? And it's yeah, we can. Brilliant, let's get started. Yeah, yeah. I think everything starts with a question. You know, guys.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah, mate, no, you you it starts with a question, and then the thing I've always thought of kind of picked this up, picked this up when I was in Iraq, right? It wasn't glamorous in Iraq. Basically, the job of the infantry was a lot of the time you jump out the back of the warrior, you kick a box to see if it goes bang. And the kind of the thing that I kind of got the mantra I got there is like, if not me, who? Um, not not to say that you know I ran out and kicked 10,000 boxes in Iraq. Everyone's everyone's running out kicking boxes, but it's it gets uh um, I think it's kind of a good mantra to to have. And I think to say, like, yeah, pretty jump boy, wrecks and boy, but if not me, who? Now there will be someone who wants to do it, sure, but the more the merrier, I think. And it just um I had this exact same conversation with my friend Nate, uh Nate Boyer. He's a Green Beret, he's just made a documentary about um about D-Day, and uh it's a great documentary, it's it's gonna scream for the first time um during the anniversary week that's kind of coming up. Um and you know, we had kind of had that because he had that conversation of you know, he kind of got that imposter syndrome of what I mean. Um you know, this is a green beret played in the NFL, great dude. It's like, oh dude, he's a top guy. Um, and um, but it's like, well, dude, if not you, if not you, who? Like, just get out there and get out there and do it. But um, yeah, I can't be wrong, with the hometown thing as well. I always do there is always like a little special buzz when you hear stories that when you come across parts of history that have crisscrossed. Like when I go for a walk um at home, I walk past um bomb creators from the second world war, and like I think about those that German crew a lot. I think, did they survive the war? You know, like you know, it gets you think it, doesn't it? And and um there's a memorial for a for a bomber, you know, and a good on you for doing that. But like again, mate, it's like if not you, who and can we can we do it? The answer is usually yes, it might be a long, it might be a long way to get there, but usually it's just mate, there's that old saying is it where there's a will, there's a way, which is dead on.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Absolutely, and I think you're right, you know, when you're talking about Wrexham and you know, the bomb craters up there then. I mean, I'm only just discovering this, and it's have I got it next to me. Um, it's called um Oxel to from Oxel to Omaha. And I I you probably find this fascinating, it's about the World War II effort in Wales, certainly from a logistic point of view, um, logistics slash marshland camp, because a lot of the Americans went through Wales, certainly South Wales. And I didn't know this until last year because I picked up the book. I probably I I think I picked up on the town I'm living in now in the first few pages, and I put it down and I started that sent me down a huge rabbit hole of looking at you know this uh service of supply. Just went down this weird rabbit hole, and I didn't pick up the book to continue looking through it until middle of last year. So I mean I just wanted to look through it, and I'm looking and going, Oh my god, I know this place, I know that place. Whoa, whoa, whoa. And I was thinking to my father, and I was like, hey, because I was working, I was um working from my parents' home this this day because I was gonna go and watch a concert in the evening, and I was like, Where's this camp? St. Mary's Hill. And he's like, Oh, you know where it is. I was looking somewhere else on the Google Maps because I didn't think you know, it was next to the old quarry is where it is or was, but I wasn't looking, I was looking somewhere else thinking it is somewhere else. Um, and I used to go there growing up, you know, with my friends, we used to hang out there because it was well out of the way. And you know, and I've I've now walked it quite a few times going, you know, the 82nd Airborne, or certainly elements of the 80 second airborne seaborne element went through there. And a chap called Ben Powers who's written a book on the 80th, obviously the 80, you know, 80s 80 uh anti-aircraft, um, artillery you know, artillery anti-aircraft on um them going across the D-Day and they I think they did you know their World War II history. And we were chatting, and there was three companies or three batteries, excuse me, if I got that wrong, um, D E and F who went through Camp St. Mary's Hill. But he didn't know that, but he did know that they went f on the train to Cardiff Port from Cardiff Port to Normandy. Um, he does say that he sent me a screenshot when I mentioned it to him. And I dived a little deeper just to kind of clarify because I was listening to his podcast he did with Joe Muccia, my friend Joe Mucia, and they were talking about that. And I'm like, seeing if he picked up if he's just discussed the seaborne element who went from Cardiff, um, only the airborne element, and then obviously prior to that though, um Task Force Charlie or Task Force Howells, um, who was one of the um senior officers in the 82nd Airborne Division, went through Brigend, camp in Bright you know, Harrington and Brigend. And um a lot of the 82nd HQ went through there, obviously, because there's not weren't enough planes, so they went via C and they went via Brigend. So there's two camps. Then you got uh Island Farm, if you've ever heard of Island Farm and the and the German Great Escape, you had the um Oh yeah, you had the 109th Infantry Regiment, part of the 28th Infantry Division. They were there initially before they went across to Swindon and down, I think they were left via somewhere in England. Um, but then they you know the 2nd Infantry Division moved in from St. Don and St. You know, near Cardiff, which I think major went across, moved to Bridgend and then they went via Port Albert and Oswald's 101st as well. I mean, there's so much, like I mean, I don't know about you, but do you think World War II, I'm gonna be very you know, but that's a long way of asking a question.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

Let the pass let the passing out, mate. Let the passing out.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

But a bit of Welshness, I think it's Welshness, you know, getting the old backstory of every character, every person. Um you know, the family histories. Um, but do you think history, World War II history in Wales is overlooked?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

Maybe, mate. Um, it's funny because in you're saying that, like my my nine, um, that's a grandmother, um Welsh word for grandmother and Welsh for people don't know. I've been known you that for years. Oh my god. Yeah, well my nine, uh yes, because we're real Welsh in North Wales, mate. Um uh she's from Pyle, which is just down the road from you, isn't it? Uh Bridget. Sorry, Powell.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Oh, she's from Pyle, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

And Kennelly. Um, and uh she used to tell because she was um a kid in the Second World War, so she'd tell me stories about one, she remembered the bombers, I think probably going after Swansea, and the other one was the American troops because they'd always give the kids tweets and stuff, which is funny because when we're in we were in Afghanistan and Iraq, that's what you spend a lot of time you do is give you the kids your tweets. And it's funny to think of British kids being in that same position just eight years before with like these other things. Yeah, the African kids, yeah. But like, yeah, so I mean that's you know, down that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

But yeah, I mean, I suppose there is there was uh that was the 20th Infantry Division. That was I want to say Kenfic Boroughs or that sort of area. So yeah, Kenfic Hills, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Around there, yeah, you're right. There's the um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

So that that that'd probably be there, mate. Yeah, there you go. Um, and she would never know what division they were. No, she remembered, you know, she'd she'd talk about that and you know, into her 90s. And um I mean, I think it I think it is, mate, because I mean I'm not being funny, like you know, I like Wrexham. We've got very old barracks here, Hightown Barracks. Um I only found out when I was going through these books that I uh that they did they did like a lot of the kind of the commando pre-selection and stuff before they went up to Scotland in Wrexham. Yeah, and uh incredible. Yeah, I had no idea, mate. So there's there was that kind of history, and then so I found that out recently. Um then one day, mate, I was dropping dropping a car off for service. You got a bit of time still, so you know, don't waste you don't want to waste your time. So I thought I'd go for a walk, nice day, went cut through the cemetery in Wrexham, and I just saw out the corner of my eye that unmistakable shape and colour of a Commonwealth War grave. I thought, oh, that's a bit unusual. Go over, sort of read, you know, go over, say a bit. Anyway, I look up, there's more before I know it. There's there's dozens of them. Um, mostly first world war, some also some second. I don't know, and it's something I really want to look into is who you know who were these people and stuff. And um, and so there's uh there's that there, and then there's just every now and again you'll just find some obscure plaque or something. Like I was I was in a building recently, it was um I forget the name, it was a furniture company, but it was in an old it would be it was it was over in Cheshire, it was. So I mean I'm off on the Welsh thing now, but I think this point is it carries over. Is um the building that this furniture stores in now, it would it must have been sort of an old members' club back in the day because it had a plaque upon the wall with all the members of the club who died in the first world war, and there's always these little bits of history, and then yeah, I I think um I think just war is just prop maybe just the second world war, as much as we do remember it, because it is the most remembered war in the UK. I think we remember as a country the D-Days and stuff, but I don't think many of us, you know, every village, thank God, has its local history um like the local history expert who will write you know pamphlets or maybe make a website and stuff, and thank God for those people. Um, but generally speaking, most of us kind of live in historical ignorance of of our of our surroundings. Um I I only found out I'm a big Roman history fan. I only found out recently that this hill that I can see from my house was assaulted by the Roman Legions. I've been looking at that hill for years, and you know, I only found out a couple of weeks ago that the Roman legions had stormed a hill fort on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

I might, you know, so it's I mean that's a incredible piece of history, yeah. You know, going on to that. So you know, not a little bit after Roman history, but still pretty cool history, I think, is you know, there's where I'm from, there's a forest, a bit of a forest. You know, we used to pretend it was Star Wars returned.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

You know, as your pair of things. Sorry, mate, I lost I lost you at I I I lost you at we used to think it was Star Wars. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Oh yeah, you know, Return of the Jedi with Ewoks kicking around, you know. And um, like little fairy things. And uh but um you know as I got older, you know, I think my father said one day, you know, King Arthur was buried there. I'm like, whatever, you know, yeah, okay, whatever, you know, didn't think anything of it. And um didn't, you know, press him for any questions. I kind of must have been early 20s or something, or even late teens. And then we talked about Instagram before we started recording, and um there was this American girl and she was talking about Welsh history and talking about King Arthur. And I started looking through the thread, and I just made this comment to this, you know, uh this because there was a few people going, Oh, yeah, you know, what do you want about you know, nobody's not, that's not true, or this about King Arthur and being Welsh and this, that, and the other. And this this woman made a comment about saying, No, no, read your history, you're the books, blah blah blah blah blah. And I mentioned this story that hey, where I'm from, King Arthur is apparently allegedly buried in Codemaster uh woods. And she said, That is true, or that is a story, you need to read this, this, this, this book. I bought the book immediately off eBay for about three or four pounds, and there is a there's literally these two guys. I think there is um I can't remember any of the original historian who had written about it, but this so the the chap who had written this book had basically doing follow-ups of these two historians on King Arthur's history, and he went to that cave, and there's literally a drawing, you know, a depiction of King Arthur being buried in this grave. It was his first burial site before he got moved on. Apparently he was there for a year. Um there was a saint of um he was uh uh um I think he ran a nunnery or founded a nunnery encampment major, got exiled, you know, become a a um a hermit or something, moved to Coyder Mr. Hotel. The cave was his dwellings, you know. We you know, we had this little ledge. They used to sort of with the M4 corridor goes through, you know, across the Swansea before the before that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

Yeah. Um traffic traffic traffic was still better then.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

Yeah. Um and he used to apparently watch uh is it a church bell? Oh, I think this is the sound for it. You know, he watched it apparently go from I think I want to say from Cardiff all the way across to St. David's. You know, he'd watched it pass. Obviously, King Arthur when King Arthur died, he got, you know, um came up through Ogmore, you know, Ogmore by sea, up the river, plonked in this cave, they created a burial, and it was it apparently, you know, so my father wasn't talking rubbish and he was telling me that well allegedly, you know. So my quest, my idea now is unless somebody beats me to this through listening to this podcast, is to go there and do a bit of a first of all a very unique then and now, but also do a little bit of just talking about the history of King Arthur in this particular cave, but it's just getting down and doing it as well. Um it's not it's easy, but it's not, it's just finding the time with work, etc. And but it's it's fascinating what is on our doorstep, you know. Certainly as Welsh people, I think there's a lot of history, and even in North Wales, it's an incredible amount of history. Abraham Lincoln, you know, has descendants in North Wales as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:10

Yeah, but um, so our our local mountain's got um masts on it, which I imagine are like telegraph masts or whatever, uh telephone mass. Anyway, my dad used to tell me that was an underground submarine station. I believed him for years, so I don't think I'm gonna be able to find any corroborating evidence on that one. Um it is it's um it is a bit I mean, you might be right.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

You might be no, I ain't right, but have you seen that in have you seen that television series on ITV about have you been watching Alex Jones and Alex Jones InfoWars again? No, no, no, no, it's I DX uh hidden whales or vintage whales. She goes to all these, you know, and there's there's something in North Wales these masts, which was communication for submarines. I I'm telling you right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

Um I'm not saying I'm not saying it might not be communications, but there's no bloody U-boat pens up there. I'll tell you no, no, no, but I think it was more communication to the subs though. It was uh well I'll talk about that. I think he was taking the piss because I told him about this recently and he laughed.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

I love it as well, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:15

Yeah, um uh but yeah, I mate Josh has been going around looking at a lot of the stuff in North Wales, isn't he? Um shout out to Josh, you know. So but yeah, I said I think it's just it's one of the things about being British. We have that uh embarrassment of riches when it comes to no offense to Americans, listening, but um, you know, it just we we do. You could just it's like London, mate. Okay, throw a stick and find something that's you could write a book about, you know. And I think it's the same with a lot, and it's it's one of the things that's like um, like I said, I think like like there's a local historian here, I forget his name, I do apologize, but um I came across uh a book of his. I wasn't able to find an actual copy, but he'd done a lot of research into the war dead of the local village here, which is quite a big village, big mining village, Ruslan el Krigok. That's not me clearing my throat, that's the name of the village for non-Welsh. And um he'd he'd found out he'd gone in the archives and got all the clippings from the first world war from like the local, because it was back in the days when a village, because it's a big village, have its own newspaper and stuff, and you know, like I said, all right. We owe I think we owe people like that a lot, big debt, mate. Um, because again, it kind of comes back to what we're saying, like that stuff's not on the internet, but someone spent the time someone spent the time to go to an archive, dig that out, photocopy it, put it into a book, get out of there, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Yeah, and I think you know, we need people like yourself to keep that going as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

Um I'm not I'm not spending all day photocopying, mate. I'm just telling you right now, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Um that's why I take my hat off to I have no competition for a photocopy. Are you are you you a member of any historical societies up north?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:55

No, mate. I'm not not because I have anything against it, it's just never even thought about it to be honest. Like, I mean, I think um, you know, in terms of society, I mean I I could definitely like you just I'm just kind of thinking this thought through as I go, but I I feel like what we have online now is a is a almost like that because that's an idea of a lot of these things, right? Is you bring people together, you sit in a room, you exchange ideas, you exchange sources, you exchange, you know, um uh information and everything. And I think we're like we're very lucky with that. Though that's what we have the internet, that's how I got to know you, it's how we got to know Josh, that's how we got to know a lot of my my friends, and there's you know, the algorithm, as much as it shows me, loads of cats. It also brings me up. I thought, oh, like I was connected with a guy the other day um um on Facebook yesterday who runs or day before who runs a page about the first battalion king's own Scottish borderers. All right, great. Right now we're connected, had a chat. Great. Let me know I can help. And you know, likewise, let me know how I can help. And that's I feel like we have this uh like what is it? I I think I think I think this might have been Josh again who who asked me kind of this way. He's like, you know, where did your second world war like affliction come from? You know, and I feel like that's it. A lot of us are lucky to be afflicted with this obsession with second world war, and then maybe some people, maybe it's just a second world war, mate. You know, some people might be fascinated with a particular campaign or whatever, but we all have that overlapping interest, and it's it's great. And I I think um people want to help each other blossom that, but no, I'm not a member of any historical society. Now I feel like I'm I should I've been excluded from the club, but I want to be in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

I mean, I think I have. I I think I'm glum Glamorgan, but I think I need to think about my memberships, I need to renew my membership. Um, because I was looking into um again Welsh history, um, and you know, its association with American history because obviously, you know, we had such such a huge influence, impact over there, and even you know, this is I think in Cowbridge, which is um the village next up from where I grew up, um, there's a medal of honor. Yeah, yeah. You were there on the weekend we was at where your wedding was? Yeah, that's where I was at. I was staying in Calbridge, wait. Yeah. No way. Mental. Yeah, there's a mental of you know, medal of honour recipient who's from there. Really? That's where Anthony Hopkins went to grammar school as well, by the way. Wow, and that's when a medal of honour recipient recipient from Calbridge. Wow. Windham Bates. He's buried in Ohio because my friend Chris Um, you know, Chris Mary shout out to Chris, you know, vlogging through history. Um, he he he he's aware of the grave. He knows who I was. When I was talking to him about it, he was very much aware of this person. And then there's another one in Cardiff. I actually, through ancestry.com, was able to find his actual address. I think it's our shopping centre, by the way. I think it's like St. David's shopping centre. Um, but there's one from Cardiff. There's another one again because the name Jones, I think, I think it's Jones or Davis, it's such a common name. Very, very hard to pin down where they are. Spears' first wife was, you know, you know, uh, you know, Ronald Spears' first was Welsh from Breckenshire. But there's a lot, yeah. There's there's quite a few. There's, I think I want to say there's at least 12 Medal of Honor recipients from Wales.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:13

I think that's like and when you say that, yeah, like as in like they were born in Wales. Born in Wales, born in Wales. Wow, that has blown my mind. Uh Wyndham dates is.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

I think he was just after the Civil War had ended, but there's certainly a couple. Um, because I just went on this massive rabbit hole, you know, of looking in the archives and looking at Abraham Lincoln's uh family tree, which a lot of stuff online is wrong because they're not looking, they're not going deep enough, they're just copying people online or what the internet says, but they're not looking into the archives at what's out there. I think I just went on this really, I think hyper focused on this and just literally planning it, you know. Um, like at this massive, you know, you know, bit of paper. I was just like, right, this is yeah. So Bala is I can't even pronounce the name, I can't even have um that's where one set of parents, you know. I think that's where the um the the the husband was the um the white the wife um Sarah Morris is her name. She was I was there, I went to the village last year, but I think I couldn't find the grave of her father. I didn't go to the farmhouse because it's still there, by the way. Um I think I was very last minute, though it was all very last minute. I just ended up in the village and I didn't plan it properly. Um such an unexpected, you know. Um I'm trying to think, you know, that gorgeous place in um North Wales that everyone goes to.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

So all gorgeous up here. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Uh can't make the score for death makes a skin, but obviously, you know, Barla. Well obviously they emigrated to Pennsylvania. They weirdly met for the first time in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:45

You'll you'll have to give a footnote at the end of the podcast for that and tag it on and in. You'll have to like pause. I'll tell you what, um do you want to hit pause? Do you want to find it while I've got the loop?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:58

I don't have to put it two seconds.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:13

So kicking back in, um I think it's his 50th tea break. Um 50th. Uh it's uh Bessekoid. So but obviously that's an incredible amount of history about Bessicoid, a lot of World War II history by the way, around there as well. But Abraham Lincoln, um uh Spati Ivan is the village of where uh the the the certainly the mother of one of his direct ascendants from the Morris side. Oh we'll have to Google the surname because it is a very Welsh surname. Um and Barla, so obviously they moved across Pennsylvania. Sorry, they met in Pennsylvania, he's from Barla, met in Pennsylvania, married or you know, um they had a daughter and they married a Hanks. Obviously, you can imagine where that went. Tom Hanks is obviously Hanks, which is Abraham Lincoln's mother. Obviously, that's from coming from one child, and obviously Tom Hanks is you know from another one of their siblings, you know, the one of the children's.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

What they're related.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:14

They're related, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:15

What mate? I'm getting my mind blown with these facts today. So I know I had mate, I had no idea. Is that like out there? Is that pretty public or no?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:26

It's sort of well, it is with Tom Hanks and Abraham Lincoln because I was working on a project last year to, you know, for Eugene Sledge and getting the new um his New Testament that he carried through Peleliu into the uh Library of Congress. Um, and obviously I was working with Playtone, and they brought on somebody who works in Washington, like a political um documentary maker, uh Lee, a guy called Lee Johnson. And we used to talk a lot about history. Um he gave me some great movies, you know, custards in movies about Custer to watch. And one day I just messaged him, I've just come across this little thing of Abraham Lincoln uh being related to Tom Hanks. It says, Is this true? And he just sent me this article with Tom Hanks is talking about it, and um we spoke about it, yeah, and mine's gone blank now. Um, but so I obviously a little bit because I I was looking of you know, no, you look on the internet or YouTube, people they must be pulling from somewhere, um probably just some misinformation or somebody who's just pulling out to the air, or they're just but you look in the archives that this is about looking into the archives, it's not generally you know found on Library of Congress has her all. Uh Nancy Hanks actually talks about called her a spinster from Wales, if I remember rightly. Um and um as as one of the um descendants, and so looking at one angle is Welsh, and then the other angle I was like, Well, where's where's Hanks from? And thinking it's Norfolk or Derbyshire, um, and again just following the breadcrumbs. I can't remember how I discovered it. Um I think Ancestry.com was was a big s you know, source, you know, resource. Um, and family tree was another one, it was Stow in the Wold, which is just down the road from me. And there's a grave, I can't find the grave at the moment, but I think I just can't having the time. And again, Stow in the Wold, um in in uh the Cotswolds, obviously Lord of the Rings. So Stow in the Wold, if you're a Lord of the Rings fan, uh there's a bit of a door, apparently a doors the door of Durin. It's based on stuff is uh on the is that the one at the is that the one at the mines of Moria that they go into. I think so, yeah. I've never really watched it, but that's yeah, based on yeah, I know that's based on a door. That's based on the church door. I think it's there's two churches, two two graveyards. You've got one there, and there's another one across the road, um, which he possibly could be buried in, but that looks a little bit I want to say newer, if that's the right word to use. Um not more recent, but it's certainly yeah. So it's just probably need to go into the church and speak to the vicar there or the reverend and and see what they know. But it's phenomenal. I couldn't believe it. It's just pure chance, it's just these rabbit holes you go down. Just um I was looking into Welsh history because and and uh what we've come contributed to the world from actors to music to you know Badfinger, um just World War II example, and and even like you know, presidents in the US, it's just phenomenal. And North Wales is a huge part of that. Franklin, I think it's a Thomas Franklin or Jefferson, sorry, Jefferson.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:22

Even I was gonna say, I think it was quite a lot of them. I I follow one of these pages, and it would think it was saying how many of the founding fathers had some kind of Welsh ancestry. Um I mean, I think it's Jones' most common name in America, isn't it? I think so. Oh, is it worth really? I believe so, yeah. I think so. Jones is, yeah. It was it was when I checked.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

I was watching the other day, John Lithgow, the actor. Yeah, um, he's got I think his grandparents, I think he was born in California, but uh descendants in Ohio, or his grandparents, I think grandparents lived in Ohio from Ohio or said grandparents, and they had emigrated from Wales as well. Or the sort of grandparents and his fascination with Welsh history is just because of his family family history. Quincy Jones is another one, apparently. It's it's really interesting, actually, when you you know you look at it, it's it's quite well.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:20

I I think the the other, yeah, the other side as well is like you know, it's like my family came from Cornwall because they were tin miners, and then the tin mining dried up, so they went to South Wales. And I imagine there was probably a lot who went over from South Wales to, you know, I think people moved around a lot, didn't they? Like, you know, I think we have this thing in the UK now, we quite often people kind of quite often, you know, you grow up, you live in the same kind of town, and a couple of your mates might move to London or whatever, but generally we don't move around as much, do we? I think people maybe moved around a lot more for for work, but I I could I could be totally wrong. I'm definitely no, I think you're completely right, it's the same down south.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:58

I mean, I think not to you know diss any of my friends at all, but I think myself, I've obviously I moved away at an early age to join the forces. Um, a friend of mine moved to London with work. A lot of them, I mean, my brother lives, you know, lives in the same town. He grew up in literally a few streets away from where we grew up. Um and some have moved on to the next village or the next town, which is only a few miles away. Um, but I don't know, it's just something about being, I suppose, close to home. It must be.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:27

And you know what, mate, I've always pictured myself living somewhere else and stuff, and I've been lockdown kind of brought me back here, you know, because I was traveling a lot and things, and now I'm kind of getting to the point where I you know I do really love it. Like, I do really love right because I think I think when you're younger, you see the flaws and you don't like the flaws, and I think as you get older, you kind of embrace the flaws, which maybe to get deep and philosophical here is a bit like being a person, right? As you get older, you kind of embrace your flaws a bit more, and yeah, and uh and also it's fucking gorgeous. And the other thing to bring it back to what you're saying is the history. You you begin to look like when you're young, you think I've seen everything here, and then as I get older, you're like, I actually don't even know anything beneath the surface of what this place is and what this place was. Um I think you're in a beautiful part of Wales. I I definitely I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:21

I think it was certainly as I was younger, you know, North Wales was not seen as the enemy, but seen as yeah, it was you know, you can't be honest. I don't I don't know, like you know, you go you walk into a shop or something, you know, and if they hear you know, they'll start speaking Welsh around you, you know, and like I can I know what you're saying by the way. Um and uh so I always I I I don't let my wife you know talk while if we go into a shop up there. Um but uh you know, I say let me let me listen, see if they're talking shit about us. Um but uh I don't know, you just I remember the first time I went to North Wales was went for adventure training when I was in what we call trade training in the RAF, and I was just blown away by it. I was just like, wow, this is stunning. Um why have I never been here before? And we went to Fairbourne, which is the far side. Um and I didn't go to North Wales then for I want to say five years. Went back to Fairbourne when I um I was going through military police training. Um and I was like, this is amazing. I I was like, this is incredible. And I went to Lake Varenwee, you know. Um uh obviously when I got posted, I was posted like far side of England. So going to North Wales probably wasn't really much of an option. Um but as I got older, I think I got posted to Cosford. Um somebody mentioned Lake Varinwe to me about you know this huge you know lake and went there and I thought this is just stunning. Um I like to go back at least once a year to North Wales because I think it's and the history there's amazing as well. Um and I'm starting to learn more about the World War II history up in North Wales. You mentioned the commandos where you were, they went obviously, you know, going to that pre-selection. I mean, the Dutch commandos um did some training around Porth Maddock as well. Um, and then there's just so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:02

Yeah, I think um when I did that trip to Fleli recently, you know, we went for Blade K for Stain York. So um, I was gonna say that's great. I love that. Yeah, and and it's just so it's just these hillsides covered with slate, you know. I figured there can't be many places in the world that look like this. It's such a unique look, that place. Uh it's almost like it strikes me because like you know, it was like the cloud was low, it was raining. I thought this looks like something out kind of some like you know, it could be like a Warhammer thing or uh you know any kind of science fiction thing. It's such a just different looking place. Um, even where I live, mate, like I'm you know, me and some of the lads are going for a walk over the mountain on um uh and and uh go get some pints in Flan Gothlin, which is an absolutely gorgeous place. Yep. And you know, you're like, oh, so lucky to have this on on the on the doorstep. I feel like you and me should be getting a cut from the Welsh Travel Tourism Commission for this for this podcast, mate. I think we can get a sponsor. Yeah, it's got a sponsorship going. Hit the okay. Let me give a shout out. When you go to Carnavan, hit the Royal Welsh Fusiliers Museum. There you go. Yes, I was gonna ask you where that was. It's in it's inside Carnavan Castle. So you can get a castle and a Regiment Hill Museum, and then the and then the Royal Welsh Museum is in Brecon.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:22

Yes, because I want to go there again for the Brock Strift, you know. I want to go first.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:26

I was gonna say they've got a bunch of bunch of Victoria Crosses there. If yeah, medals, if medals are your thing, check out the Royal Welsh cross. I saw two.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:33

I saw two in Gloucestershire um museum regiment. There's two Victoria Crosses that they had on display. And I can't remember if I forgot to I think I forgot to ask if they were real or they were just sort of replicas.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:46

I I imagine they'd be real if it's in the museum, they usually are they'd be quite enough, you know. Yeah, I think quite often people will just give them for safekeeping to the or you know for display, because you know, as the saying always goes, and I think a lot of people. Who probably receive them feel this way, you know. A lot of times a military cross is for the company, you know, it's all the VC is for the battalion and stuff. And it's of course it's for the individual as well. Um, most first and foremost. But um, I think a lot of those people feel like that they they want them to be in the regimental places from what I've seen. I know I I just I know that it's it's quite a normal thing for for families to kind of give them out on these kind of long-standing loans and and things. Um yeah, now regimental museums need to visit more of them, basically. I've we I've got the Cheshire ones 30 minutes for me, and I'd keep me I keep wanting to go, and it's just you know, time it time in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:40

No, it is absolutely I think it's for me, it's it's Worcestershire Regiment. Um, it's going up there. And they've got the Oxfordshire one, you know. Um I want to go there.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:48

Um Yeah, that's that's that's at the Blenheim, it's by Blenham Palace, isn't it? Oh, is it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:53

Yeah, it's right next to it's right next to Blenham Palace. I I really want to really want to go. I was down that area recently to go and watch Wrexham game. I went to see Churchill's grave um because he's buried in a small village graveyard down there. Um yeah, um I really want I I saw that, but it was we got there too late in the in the day for for going to the museum. But yeah, that's high on my list as well, mate. The Oxford Oxford. It's supposed to be incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:15

So soldiers at Soldiers of Oxford or Soldiers of Oxford Museum school, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:20

Yeah, and there's again there's amazing. I think on the route there, there's amazing World War II history. Depending on obviously the route you go, you got there's quite a few airfields. Um there's an airfield right next to Bryce Norton um called Broadwell. Like it's insanely close. I don't know. I was like three or four miles of that, and that was huge during Market Garden and D-Day as well. But yeah, um I don't want to get this right, I want to say nine para or nine yeah, nine parachute. I want to say nine para um flew from there. Right. Yeah, nine para that ship, I think they flew from there. Yeah, um, and you can walk the runway, the control tower is still there. Oh, sick. Yeah, and you can walk across across a farmer's field. Um, but um you can still go there. And I went there last year, and I was just like, wow, this is just amazing. I was probably in the control tower for about an hour by myself. I could just photograph, you know, just taking it all in because it's it's it's you just it's just some history in there, man. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:18

Yeah, I know, yeah. It's it's mad, isn't it? I was having this conversation with a mate recently, like, you know, how few Lancasters are flying now.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:26

I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:27

Uh and I say like, and you know, like after the war, you could just like buy a Spitfire for pretty cheap. Well, not pretty cheap, but I mean cheap compared to what they are now. Like, and and it it it's almost mad, but I guess when that's been because I mean I I can this is gonna sound like a terrible comparison, but when we were at the end of our tour in Afghanistan, I threw loads of my stuff in the burn pit because I'm like, who cares?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:49

And then I can ask you this question, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:51

10 years later, I'm like, what was I doing? But it's so normal to you. So I think as a nation, this probably same thing happens. You're like, well, yeah, we've had Lancasters flying around here for you, like whatever, scrap them, let's put them to use. And then 80 years later, you're like, Oh, we could have just kept like 20, you know, like you know, so I mean So have you kept much of your kit from your tours? Oh yes, I did keep I kept a lot, but a lot of it is stuff a lot of the kit I have from the military is kit that I wasn't kind of using on patrols and stuff. Because, like, you know, when you're in a patrol base or you're living out your back, so you're kind of like, Well, how can I make my load a bit lighter for going home? And like one of the things that I'm really gutted I threw away was my gloves because I wore those on all three tours. Like, you know, something like that. Now I'm like, I think sometimes I think about going back out there and excavating that bird bit and trying to dig them up. I can tell you, I can tell you exactly where they're buried. Um, but I've got a few bits and pieces which might not look like much to people. Like um, like I've got well, there's a couple of obvious ones which are like your maps and stuff, but then I've got I've got my helmets, which you're not supposed to leave with your helmets. So I would like to thank the RAF regiment for me having my helmets, or not the RAF regiment, the RAF, because um when we'd go to Bastion or the bigger camps, there's these phone cabins that people use, and the RAF personnel would be very, very considerate, and they would leave their helmets and body armours outside of the um the phone cabins. I think I came back home with at least half a dozen helmets. No, um, yeah, because then because like when you give your kit in, you've just got to give in a helmet. So I've got um all the helmets that I I used on operations. You can still see the that dust in them and stuff. I've still got those. I've got my paintbrush and pokey stick, which I used for uncovering IEDs. Not that I uncovered those, but I did use them on IEDs. Um, you know, because that to be honest, I use my paintbrush a lot, like my paintbrush, I used a lot more than my my weapon. Um, you know, you use your paintbrush every day. Um, because you know that you're going along with your metal detector, you get a metal read in, and then you get the paintbrush out. Um, so I got those, and then my prize possession is a 107mm Chinese rocket which came through my Cori Mac. So I'd been so a CoriMek is basically like for people, it's like it's almost like a shipping container that's made into like a living unit. We we were only in them for the first few months, and then they decided that they were too good for us and kicked us out and moved some officers in. Um, but I was basically the way it worked was we had enough people, you have to go out with a certain number of people on patrol, and we had like this one one over. So every 13, 14 patrols, you'd get the patrol off. Um, and like on some of my tours, I didn't ever want to miss patrols because you knew you might get into something tasty. And last thing you wanted was the blokes coming in telling you what tasty scrap that they'd had, and you'd missed it. So, but on that first tour, it was often quite mundane stuff, like out towards oil fields and stuff, nothing really happened. So um I was sitting, there was a place where I could sit. So I had the air conditioning unit on one side of me and the walls on the other. So there's only one really one place so you could sit up against the wall on your bed. So I was sat on there and then the door opens, it's a sergeant from another platoon. He wasn't he was a nice bloke, he wasn't arsy about this at all. He's like, Oh, can you grab your grab your helmet body armor weapon? We're going down one of the other camps to basically what was happening at the time because of all this rocket fire and stuff, was building up the bed spaces with breeze blocks. Now, these bee blocks were not cemented or anything. I always just thought if anything goes off next, he's just getting a breeze block in the face. So I don't know, I don't know how effective these things were, but uh I kicked off saying, well, if I knew I was stacking fucking breeze blocks, I'd have gone on patrol and just stood at the top of the vehicle for an hour. So I wasn't happy about this, but he's a sergeant. Uh he's a sergeant, I'm a I was a landscorporal, so off I went. Anyway, I hadn't been long, the alarm went off, the rockets came in, and when I got back to my room, there was a massive hole in the wall where I'd been sitting. Um wow. So it's a weird one because it's not a close call because I'm down the other end of the camp. But I just think it it's a close call in the sense of if he'd have just gone, I can't be asked to argue with him. Fuck it, stay here. I'd have been in two pieces when my platoon came back. And it's so it's those little, it's almost more of a sliding doors moment than a close call. But um, yeah, it was a bit bum got a bit twitchy when I saw that ball in the wall. But um I had a really great boss out there. Um, and we were doing some work with the bomb disposal people, and they're they have to do the free from explosive certificates. Anyway, you got it for me, mate. You were in the RAF police when I when I put my burger and my rucksack on the on the X-ray machine to go back, they absolutely shit the frick. I've got this half a rocket in there, so it's about over a foot long. Um and then they were trying to confiscate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:03

Do you think that's a carry on it? No wonder.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:05

No, it was in my burger, mate. So I pulled out my free things. Pulled out my free from explosive certificate. Thank you very much. I'll be keeping hold of this. And uh yeah, and it's it's about so it's it's um it's basically like the back end of the rocket, but it's all full in the middle with the material from the wall where it went through, and you can see where it was spiraling. So it's got the map, like you all the inside material from the wall is like curled up in it. So the speed, I mean, yeah, I would have been. I mean, you know, I work on my abs, mate, but I don't think they would have been stopping that, they wouldn't be bouncing that one off. Um that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:39

That's like that's phenomenal. I mean, I mean, one I was you know, a guy um I served with he was 2009. Um, I think he was in the summer, I want to say he was the summer tour. Um, and he picked up uh an IED plate and he's got it in his office in a picture frame, you know. He he recovered it. Um I mean, what a war memento.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:01

I mean oh I do have shrapnel, I do have shrapnel as well, actually. No, you mentioned IEDs. Um my rucksack, my Bergen, was clipped onto the side of the the cage, the bar armour on the warrior when we hit an IED. So when I got my Bergen off, the Bergen was like torn apart with the Bergen cover on. So I've still got the Bergen cover, which is all torn apart, and then I've got this piece of shrapnel, the metal, so it would have been part of the IED rather than stones or whatever. It had melted my spare socks and pants together. Um so I had it, I'd kept it all as one. I'd kept the melted metal, the melted metal, the socks and the underpants. Anyway, my mum bless her, saw these socks and underpants because I'm not I'm a pretty messy person, they weren't anything, pulled them apart, washed the underpants, washed the sock, and she'd set she'd set the piece of metal aside. So I still have them all. I've still got all these bits because like some of the socks have been melted together with a thing, but others just had holes through them. So I had holes through the socks for a while. But again, you know, so I've got that bit of and it it's I always think I should label these things because if anyone was looking, it just looks like a piece of scrap metal. But I mean, you know, that came out my bergen, so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:14

My mementos are nothing as Gucci as that's why you join the infantry, mate. You get the Gucci mementos, then don't you? I've got lovely um hotel menus that I've kept onto my some down pillows. Just slippers, complimentary slippers. Yeah, um, but no, I I've got my trousers, I still wear them when I do my reserve stuff. Um, I still fit into them, and and you know, they've got hero sleeves, you know, I've cut up the strings because um but I didn't have that in Afghanistan. I did that in the Falklands, which was like a year later. Of the you know, the um to tighten the bottom of your trousers up, you know, because we have to have that, you know. Um so my all my shift uh did that, so I sort of did that. Um I've got my field jacket, so I've got that. Um gloves, so I've got my and and drama gloves, and I got my hero gloves as well. I you know, the issue gloves. I I use them for the gym, but I use them now and again. Like had the fingertips off, and I think it's a photo me on Facebook with me wearing them, doing a little bit of a pose in front of a vehicle. Um my hero gloves. Um tags I gifted to a friend, um my friend Henry. Um bits, but it's more kidding, nothing like what you have. I've got a m I had a couple of maps, I gave two away, and I've kept saying which one you've signed, um but I had two other ones because I worked in the incel at Short Cat and I needed to know where all the kit was I was managing. And I thought, oh what am I getting some maps? And I went to the Geo cell, the engineers, um, and they gave me a pile of them. And I use some and I I re I do regret giving the two I gave away. I do regret giving them away. That is, and like I think I'd be too cheeky to ask them back. You know, hey, remember those maps I gave you? Do you have anything with those? Anything, you know, back if well I can't do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:07

I although I tell you now we're thinking about this, it's never even dawned on me before, but um now we're talking about this. I'm now also kicking myself, why didn't I just at some point just pick up a handful of brass and link? You know, because I was a I had a GPMG, which is like for Americans listening, it's like the 7.62 millimeter machine gun. And just just bringing home a few cases of those. You just don't think about it at the time because it's normal. I like the thing is this there's like you know, that and I I wasn't abnormal in this, a lot of lads have done a lot more, but it is you're doing that, you were just doing those tools all the time, it's just normal at the time, right? Um, you know, and just like but now I think, yeah, god, why did I just why did I just pick up like five or six empty cases and some and just go, oh yeah, I fired these, you know, I fired these. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:55

I think one thing I don't know if you had them when you were there, but obviously one thing I'm I was using it, it was on display, uh a zippo lighter. I remember the ISAF. So from the we call it the Jingly Bastion. I think I was back there briefly, either on RR or even towards the end of my tour, picked up a zippo lighter which had ISAF, had the ISAF badge on it, like five dollars, took it home, never used it, never, absolutely kept in this metal glass cabinet or in a shoebox somewhere. Um, and then we went to Belgium on a battlefield tour, and I thought, I'll take that with me. And I had my pocket and it fell out. And I, you know, and I didn't notice it fell out, but I'd left. I was like, Where's my where's my zippo? I'll never get one of those again. I don't think I think I've seen one about 50 quid.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:39

Oh, you looked at it, yeah. It's not the same, it's it's not the same though, because it's not the one you it's not the one you brought back, and that's the thing. I could I could I could go online now and buy like buy the ugly gloves that someone had worn. They weren't mine. Like I'd worn those gloves on my hands every patrol on free tours. Why the fuck did I throw away? This is gonna you realise I'm gonna be lying awake in bed tonight trying to get to sleep, kicking myself. I've I've worked hard to overcome this tour with those gloves, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:07

Um I think it's different for you though, because you were infantry and as biometrics, you know, the only patrols I did were we did I did a couple of checkpoints. I I you know from a vehicle, you know, we're in a vehicle from one PB to another PB, but you were different, your tour was different. There's a lot more, I think it's a lot it's a lot different, you know. So the experiences and the emotion connect you know, emotional connection to what your characters are going to be doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:28

They were all stained, they were all stained and beat up and everything, mate. Like they looked, yeah. What was I what was I thinking, man? What was I thinking? There you go. That's I know loads of I've got being funny if I if I if I was if I was thinking clearly, I probably never would have asked to have gone to Afghanistan as an infantry movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:43

So Afghanistan, the video, the YouTube video, you know, is that were you there? You know, the um the cribs one with um I went to see with his sister.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:52

Oh Jet Jessopaya. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um he was out there with Charlie Company, yeah. He was in recce with me. That's a great video. I always remember that. One of the one of the if one of the if not the best Afghanistan video out there. Yes. There's a few there are some good ones, but I think in terms of length, there's some very funny. I remember that one with the javelin where they let the like the squeaky sausage balloon go out. That was a classic. Um but like Jez is goes on for for a long time. It was uh it should have had a background. Script was popular then as well. I think it's very popular. That's why it's quite what makes it funny. It's very funny. You know, like you know, I'm sure we have like many fat fans of TV and film here. It was all done in one shot, one seamless take. You know, there's no editing on that, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:39

When I was there, what was big at the time coming from Afghanistan was the Americans. And I've seen the guy, I think he's shared it on his own YouTube channel. He's got um because somebody made a comment, and it was the Call Me Maybe one, very camp, but very brilliant. Uh, it was called me, you know, when they were just shirts off, you know, doing sexy poses.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:55

That sounds like an Air Force kind of thing, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:57

Honestly, no, they're definitely army, definitely army.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:59

Oh, American Army, American Army Engineers that was quite a popular one at the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:05

I remember seeing that a lot, you know, because it's quite a popular song. But yeah, it's but I I did come back with um like working in the Incel for some reason. Like, we there was just like a bunch of like trinkets, you know, like for like hearts and minds. It's like you know, like there was you know, the um the the matchboxes, you know, and uh poker chips as well. I got a couple of those. Yeah, I think I might have given one of those away back there. That I think that's thinking little stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:27

Well, there was those, there was those ones you'd get when you went to the bases and stuff, you'd have those like your 25 cents and stuff would be like a little yeah, that's it, mate. Like, yeah, I know I've got a bunch of those. Um, because they were pretty like I bet they're collectible, aren't they? Because you've got all these different ones, they've got different like images of coalition forces on them, basically, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:50

Yeah, was that Iraq though, not Afghanistan. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:52

Oh that was it was definitely Iraq. I didn't I don't know if it was in Afghanistan as well. It was definitely it was definitely it was definitely Iraq.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:59

Yeah. But I know what was big, and again, I don't know if you had the same thing, but my mate, he was doing force protection out in you know, Garden Bastion, and he came back for R and R and like he had a bag full of stuff, and he gave me uh a Roma, you know, sorry, US Marine cover, because we were working in the US Marines um with guard in the base, and he gave me a US Marine cover, which I've got to dig out somewhere, and he gave me a US Marine cover jumper. I thought, oh that, you know, you know, he gave it to me. And I was like, oh, this is great. But again, it's a great being gifted it. I still wear it, I've still got it. I thought, but I didn't get it. Yeah, I get my own. What was popular was the zippy one. If you ever saw that.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:41

Was that like an American Marine one?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:43

Yeah, you're marine, yeah, zippy one. I still wear it. I wear it to the gym now and again. Um and I it's it's different because I'll never get rid of that because I got that. I mean the jumper, I s I still like it because my mate Dan, you know, we had the same surname. Um your neck of the woods, but on the English side. Um, but he was my opposite room in the bar block, you know. So this thing's special for me, it's that emotional connection to my good friend Dan. Yeah, I do like my but I will that kit I will struggle to get rid of. I probably won't get rid of the Afghan stuff. Everything else, yes, I've got no problem. But the af the stuff I wore in Afghan, um, I think I've still got some of my my Q8 stuff, but again, it's not I was based out of Kuwait, you know, we went into Iraq. But it's like each half an hour at a time. Picked up a general's hat, by the way, like while I was there, I shouldn't admit to that. Um just left, I was looking after safekeeping, you know, and it was just I just it was nowhere to be seen. I was like, Oh, it's very safe. You know, you know, a hand into lost and found, but um got to dig it out somewhere if that's what I've done with that. Um, but the yeah, the Afghan stuff. I don't know why. I think it was just because I was doing something very typical, which wasn't RAF police. Um, you know, because we did some good stuff out there, and I'm very proud of you might be friends who've done that as well. You know, we did Wiz, we did close support. I don't know if you had any RMPs or RF police with you on patrols, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:00

I worked, I actually worked on my first tour, we were the forced protection company, um, and like four of us had got detached at the time to go and work with Ato and Wiz. Um wow. So yeah, so it was quite it's quite it's quite it was it that tour wasn't I didn't get the action on that tour that I wanted, but what I did get in hindsight was like a really kind of interesting look at how the bigger machinery works because like when you're in the inventory, you just all you know is right now I'm we we found an ID, now I'm on the cord and you don't know what's going on in the middle. So in hindsight, it was actually really cool to be able to be in that middle bit with the eight homeware and see what was going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:35

Yes, because when I was there, so we um oh, we had a fantastic um EOD team, and um there was a Welsh guy. Um, he was the infantry guy attached to them. I can't remember he's from Tonrevile. He had a great mustache. I'll have to look see if I've um I don't think I'm friends on him on Facebook. I can't remember. I'll have to have a look. But he was he was a well, he was honestly well Welsh. He was Welsh.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:57

So this tour, so this tour, I was with the jocks on this one. It was um great book, by the way, with the jocks. Uh really yeah, great book by yeah, sit on your list. Great book by an officer. Uh um I think I try to remember. I've been told about this one. I think I've been told about it. With the jocks, Peter White, I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:13

I think I don't have my World War II books in it at the moment. Um I think that might be my shopping basket, believe it or not. Yeah, no, that's a it's a really good one. My my friends, a friend of mine, his no sea patrol, no G Patrol, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:29

Stick this one on as well. I'll tell you what I do have from a rack of cars is a couple of um uh paintings. Like we got the you know how a battalion gets a painting done at the end of the tour and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:42

With the jocks, sorry, going to back to with the jocks, so you know I do all these then and nows on on Instagram. So there's a place, Clifton cameras, shout out to them. I get my photos from there, and he's the guy when I get printed, the guy who prints them, uh Australian chap, he starts asking me questions about them and he knows his stuff as well. And one of the last times I went there, we we were chatting for about five-10 minutes about World War II, and he mentioned this book with the jocks. So, yeah, it's a good one. So it's a big one, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:13

Yeah, no, mate, it's a it's a it's a great memoir. Um, again, it was one of those books that I kind of came across quite late in the day with Voice of Victory. I think I managed to get a couple of quotes from him in there. He had some pretty interesting ones about the problems of stopping bloods drinking. Um, because as they're going through Germany, you know, it's it was pretty much you know, think about it, you're going through Allied um and occupied countries like Holland and um, you know, Holland, Belgium, um, you know, like in terms of um the British Liberation Army, you know, you you can't be going and taking stuff off the locals. That's you know, they're the people there to help. Whereas when they got to Germany, it was more look, if you need to blow that house up, you need to blow that house up. If if um if you want to go in that house and tell it yourself, like there's stories about Um lad he's he was like uh in one of the recce formations and he they were in a brain carrier and he just said I was forever just throwing stuff off the back of the the truck, as they say, our sergeant. Every time we came across a new town or village, he'd pile all this loot up on the back of the brain carrier, and then when he wasn't looking, I'd just be chucking it, I'd be chucking it off the back. But yeah, there was a lot. I think that's one of the things as well, is like in terms of like what did we bring back on tours and souvenirs. You know, I went to visit a veteran recently, um Jack. He'd been in Italy and Africa, and I went to visit him and a lot of his memorabilia, you know, he's got German watches, German bayonets, that stuff. Well, that's not really something that well, you know, you it's nothing really to take off an Iraqi. Or I do actually have an I do have an Iraqi chess rig from the Gulf, um, not from the Gulf War, from Telic One, but again, it's not something that I took, it's something that a friend gave me. So um, you know, Telic One, I think lads were kind of picking up a lot of souvenirs off the enemy. Um, whereas, like, you know, when you're fighting an insurgency, it's not really so I mean a lot of the times you don't even see the buggers, you know, you're doing you're not really you'd you certainly not uh it would not go like if you go and do an arrest operation and you pick someone up, it's just I it would not be I don't think it would be really tolerated for you to go in their house and start helping yourself to souvenirs, you know. Because you lot and the pol you lot and the military police with arrest us but it's just not that kind of deployment, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:35

If anything, you're gonna turn them even worse against you as well. It's already bad enough as a result by robbing them, you know, when it's gonna be you know these aren't people like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:43

These aren't people with a lot of possessions either. Everything's probably valuable to them, and yeah, I just don't think it was that I can't even remember there ever being a conversation about it. I just think everybody just knew you don't do it, and that was it. Um, but um, yeah, I mean, you know, it's pretty cool seeing this veterans thing of you know, you just had this big box full of watch, you fucking add loads, these German watches and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:07

Fantastic. I think some of the stuff that came back is just phenomenal. I mean, there's a place in um Leon Min, I hope it says Leon Minster, um, Warren Sons. And I don't know if you've ever been there. There's a TV show on um on one of the UK channels. Um, because I went there and I got to pick up something for Bobby Schofield who's on our Sicily tour. Um and I was I was picking up something for him before I took up to Liverpool because I was working in Liverpool as well, and he didn't want to shift because he was just so nervous. And the chances were I was yeah, I was working in Liverpool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I just went via there and I picked up a commando dagger uh from there, which belonged to a veteran, had a whole you know, you know, they gave me the whole story, you know, the whole um providence of what goes, whether who who he was, where he got it from, blah blah blah. Um and I was chatting to the guy, you know, and and again, this is how small the world is the woman who worked um one of the um one of the team, she knew Bobby. She knew Bobby Schofield, which was mind-blowing. Well, she knew who his sister um which was insane. But yeah, we would so that started the whole conversation. And then do you want to go downstairs? I was like, Oh, downstairs, why have we gone up? Oh, it's a whole raft. This is where I picked up the commando dagger because I just I was like, oh well, it's gotta buy a thing from you and my god, like but it's all from stuff that people have brought back from you know high-ranking Nazis to all sorts. It was just highly recommend going, like, even just to luck. I mean, you'll probably walk away with something, but it's just yeah, I don't possess that skill of walking away without items, mate.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:38

Um, you mentioned the commando, uh commando dagger there. Um there's a story. Um, one of the ones uh one of the guys that I'd followed in D-Day and Voices of Victory. Um, and he was saying that they'd picked up all these German weapons um stuff, and they were coming back on the ship. They basically got told when they're on the ship, coming back across the channel, right? Um none of these weapons are allowed. If you've got one, you're gonna because they'd already kind of been told you can't do it. And they was but they kind of stashed them away in their kits and stuff. Because what they'd do is they were going across, they'd have their blanket rolls would be on the back of a truck, and every time, every time you you stopped, you know, you'd get your blanket rolls out of your somewhere for a few days, and then before you moved off again, you'd leave all your loot in your blanket roll. And sometimes it'd get looted by you know the rear echelon troops, and sometimes it wouldn't. But then coming back, they've got all these German weapons anyway. So they get told, look, you're gonna get a thorough search when you get on the other side. If you've got weapons on you, you're gonna get court-martialed. And he said the amount of weaponry going over the side of the ship was unrealistic. If he was like, if you were to dredge the English channel, he said the amount of German weapons you bring up would just be phenomenal. Um, but yeah, I mean, I know I I remember hearing stories about blokes bringing stuff back from Gulf War One in their tanks. Um you know, they hide AKs in past. I mean, there was, I don't know if you caught it in news recently, there was a bloke bought uh uh bought like some vehicle that had been used in the Gulf War, I think. And he's you know, he's bought this vehicle, he's a you know collector or whatever, and he's stripping it to maintain it, and finds a bar of gold bullion in there that someone had obviously stashed away.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:15

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:16

I mean, he made you imagine like that squaddy is probably seeing that news story going because he'd probably gone, all right. I'll scare it when I get back. And he's for whatever reason that vehicle's been sent to a different place or whatever. And he was probably thinking he was quids in, especially the price of gold down.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:31

I know, yeah. My god, that's amazing, mate. I need to draw in line because we could talk for hours. My god, alive, we could talk for hours. Um what's before we wrap up, what's next for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:55:42

I'm doing a book about Basra, actually, mate. Great segue. Um, I'd love to do, I'd love to be able to do at some point. Hopefully, I'll be able to cover all parts of it. But the book uh uh the bit I'm picking on specifically is the Telic 9 and 10, which is essentially really the last kind of year or so that we were in Basra before because we remained in Iraq after that, but once we were out of Basra at that point, uh and the reason I want to tell that was 2009?

SPEAKER_00 1:56:11

Is that 2009?

SPEAKER_03 1:56:12

No, it was early, mate. It was back end of so like November 2006. So the period I'm doing is about November 2006 to September 2007. And the reason why is because people quite rightly know what was going on in Afghanistan at the time, you know, three power three power 16 air assault went in in um um summer of 2006 to Helmand having all these kinds of insane engagements, uh, you know, unfortunately taking a lot of casualties, that kind of thing. And that I think the British public got a good idea what was going on there. But what I don't think they realized was what going on was what was going on in Iraq at the time. You know, as Iraq was kind of sold as they saw. It's a peacekeeper mission, we're training the Iraqi troops, we're going to hand over. You know, the reality of the situation is you couldn't go into the city without having armored vehicles, main battle tanks, Apaches overhead. Um, there was uh unfortunately like a large percentage of the deaths in Iraq occurred during that period. Um, hundreds of casualties, like non-fatal casualties, many with life-changing injuries, loss of limbs, blinded, etc. And um I've been interviewing people for it because again, I'm I'm essentially what I want to do is do the same as the two World War II books. I want as much of it to be told in the words of the people that who are there. And one of the questions I've been asking them is right, if you had a spectrum where you've got peacekeeping on one end and war on the other end, where do you put those tours? And everyone so far has come back and said war. Um, what's been really interesting is uh some of the guys they were on the Iraq invasion and they said I've saw far more action on the quote unquote peacekeeping telic 10 tour than I saw on Telic, you know, Telic 1. I mean, that's their words, not mine. Um so that's what I'm doing. That's the one I'm really enjoying it, getting to interview a lot of great people. Um with the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:03

It's got a document to be honest, it's probably still quite fresh as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:06

Well, that's that's it, mate. I mean, I think like you know, Imperial War Museums, National War War Museums, what they have built for us with their interviews are national treasures. Like what they've got in their archives is far more valuable than what's held in the Tower of London, in my opinion. Um, and it's incredible we got that. We're in a really lucky position now where the ethos around changing uh changing, sorry, the ethos around talking about things has changed. So you haven't got to wait till now you can talk to people younger because people are more willing to speak. There's you know, there's other things around it, but I think the age that you're talking to a lot of them as well on your podcast, yeah, exactly. And I but I mean a lot of them are my fucking mates, you know. Um, and if if they're not my mates, they're mates, you know, British Army mate is tiny, you could throw a net over it. Um unless you're listening from China, in which case we are very strong and have mighty legions, don't come here. Um, but it's um it's just one of those ones where I think it would be a great age now for it where you still remember quite a bit, but you've also had 20 years to reflect. So um, you know, like a lot of people will say, like, look, I didn't really think about much of it at the time. It was my job, I was 18. It was just, you know, but it's like now I look back on it. So I think this kind of like this age that a lot of the veterans are at now is really kind of good ones to get interviews in. And the thing is, nothing's stopping you interviewing them again when they're 50, 60, 70, 80. But as soon as you get it, like this this kind of period that we're in now is is great. And you know, it's a uh essentially, mate, I look at it the same as the Germany campaign book, Voices of Victory. It's there's an area here that isn't as known by the British public as it should be. And I do I'm not gonna fucking totally change that, but it's all about moving the needle in it. Can I move the needle a little bit? Yeah, um, and if that's the case, then great. And and it's a it's an honor to do that, mate, as well. And it feels different to doing the World War II ones because this is my peer group essentially. So whereas the World War II lun, they're like they are almost like gods to us, let's be honest. The way that we've been raised, the way that we feel. The world war two generation are like gods. The the peer group is different because of your friends, but like the some of the stories from these different regiments, and some of the stories from our own regiment things that you hear, you know, it's a it's an incredible privilege. It does feel different because it's not the world war two generation who we all have on a pedestal for obvious reasons. But um, yeah, it's it's it's it's good, mate. I'm I'm I'm I'm proud of the project.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:40

And I do find when they become so you're talking about peer group, they when they become veterans that there's a different mindset as well. Um, I took my map to my you know to Bryce Norton when I was doing my RF, my annual camp recently, and you know, guy I was working with, he was on uh 2009 doing close support. He was on Panthers Claw 2, and he was he's he felt really weird. You know, obviously you got the map you've signed it and you know veterans are really happy to sign it, by the way. But I was really weird about he didn't sign it because he felt maybe it's because he's still serving. Yeah, he just felt I got another chapter sign who did Wiz uh Chase. Um and actually felt my warrant officer, my reserve squadron, you know, he signed it, he's really happy to sign actually. He was the second signer, but actually he was really happy to sign it. But you know, this guy Nathan, he was just he felt really weird about signing it. I think he just felt like you know, I'm no one. It's like yeah, but no, you're someone, yeah, someone who served. But he just he didn't, I don't think he sees it yet, maybe. I don't know, it's just I think it was it's very different. But people who've who've left and now looking back and having that reflection, like, yeah, I'll sign that. Yeah, absolutely I will. And I think it's a different mindset when you leave as well. Maybe at the time you just unless you're a power or a marine who can't stop talking about being a power or marine, you know. But certainly, and I think I love the fact as well, you know, Aces High Gallery, and now they do, you know. I missed the first Afghanistan event they did have them, you know, and I hope they do more. I think they will, but they've done, you know, the Prince. You you mentioned Prince. I mean, they do um the one again, the one I got you to sign. Um the oh yeah, it's a great one. Yeah, it's a closer you've got that one as well, haven't you?

SPEAKER_03 2:02:15

No, I've got a couple of his pieces. Uh I forget his name, but I do apologize. Richard Taylor. Richard, Richard Taylor. I've yeah, Robert, it's Richard or Robert. Um, but yeah, he's fantastic. I've got looking at them now. I've got a Pegasus Bridge one and I've got an Operation Millennium one, which was the Thousand Bomberade over uh oh god, I forget the name of the city now. My bad. Um, but yeah, I I have uh I have a couple of his. I think he's fantastic. I did try and get yeah, he put one up recently that um I tried to snap what someone already had it that he'd just done. But yeah, yeah. I mean he's someone like mate. If I had the money, I'd be like buying every bit, everything.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:49

I know there's there's a couple. I mean, they I've got one, the Chinook one, there's a Chinook one, which um I want to get him to sign it. He's still serving, so it's just that's just a matter of going across where he is. Um, but then obviously got the three-paro one, which is I'm just looking at obviously on Instagram, um, because he follows us.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:11

Um it's a great idea, mate. And and and I'm gonna nick it off you. Like I'm hoping to do a book launch when the when the book launch comes out for the Basford book will be September 2027. I'm hoping to you know stage something and have you know invite everyone who's involved in the book. And I definitely think I'm gonna have to steal your idea of bringing down some maps and and things. And you know, maybe you could raise like I I'd want one for myself, don't get me wrong. But I think maybe you know, those are the kind of things that you can like. I was I was looking for a map for of Germany, like an air air crew map, because my my granddad, who's over my shoulder here, he was oh no, which way are we going? Yeah, um, he was bomber command, and um, sorry, cat, give me a minute. And um uh I was looking for a map that I could because I want to make a frame with some of his stuff in, and there was a signed map on there. It was a map, it was like it was the exact map I wanted. It was signed by a bunch of bomber command veterans, including I think there was two VCs on there. And I think it was like 12 grand or something. I thought, you know what? If I had that money, I fucking have it. Like, you know, it's not like there's no part of me that goes that's too expensive. I'm like, yeah, it's signed by all those people, it's signed by all those people. Um, it's signed by all those people, and and I'm I'm like, if yeah, if I if I if I had a few hundred grand sitting in the bank, yeah, definitely I'll be going up on the wall, you know. Fantastic, you know, but um there's something it's like anything in life, right? It's what value you place on stuff. Like, I'm not too asked about cars and things, you know. But some people see a certain car and they'll go weak at the knees, and you know, fair one, that's that prerogative. But I think it's knowing that those men, especially when you think, God, those blokes would have been in the room together at the same time around this thing, or they knew each other. And I just yeah, it's great, innit? I think I'm gonna have to go online and buy some stuff after this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:05

Look at auctions sites. Like I bought I bought quite a few maps from you know, World War II maps from auction sites, and um one came, you know, but one purchase came through, and um, you know, you got maps of you know Bremen and Munster and Genk and Liege and and one of them had markings on it, you know, and must have been a nav, you know, it can't be anyone else's but a navigator's markings, and I'll have to dig it out again and send you photos, but it's like, oh my god, give me a price. I didn't pay that much for it, but it's just like you know, it's just like little just little annotations, just something little bits. I'm like, oh my god, this is incredible. But it's not expensive. I'd say look at auction sites as well, the minute ones.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:45

Well, I tell you what, mate, when when when the next book comes out, I I try and do things like that now. It's like uh it's um so um I what I do I'm gonna wait there. Okay, well this isn't gonna be very well produced, but bear with it, it's gonna be worth it. Right. So I recently got this one back, right? So I'm gonna try and get this into frame. So you see we've got the logos and stuff on there. I love that really bothered. I'd love to do something like that. So quick spiel on that one is um you know, one of the one of the the stories that like really kind of hit me hard about this this Battle of Germany campaign in Germany book was that everybody knows about D Company two Oxen Books who landed at Pegasus Bridge. But not many people know that they also took part in the the Rhine crossing, and essentially half the battalion came casual became casualties on the Rhine Crossing, uh, including more than 100 deaths, which you know is is critical. And uh, including there's quite a lot of Pegasus Bridge veterans killed and wounded on that operation. So I wanted to get something about that, and I've also got and I've got Billy Gray from Pegasus Bridge over my shoulder here, so signed by him. Anyway, I found this print, and it was signed by um the commander of six airborne and the brigade commanders. I've I've got to have that, and then as chance would have it, my dad for my birthday, he'd found in a secondhand shop a frame with um it obviously belongs to Sony being in the glider pilot regiment, so it was the shoulder tabs, the airborne tab, the cat badge. So I've just got all those put in, and I'm looking for a place on it on wall now because I'm just like it's just bringing those things together, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 2:07:36

Yeah, no, I agree. Um and that's what I think I want to do with um my map, my Afghanistan map is an iSAF patch that I wore. Um I got my my you know, I've still got the same berry now that I had then. So maybe taking you know cut that off and putting it in and I'd say you know, um a second pair of dog tags, which are very you know, I wore in a you know for Q8 slash Iraq or flying into Iraq, but it's more Q it's called a Q8, there's Q8 tour. But again, because it's it's exactly the same. Something like that, putting like call that a shadow box, and obviously maybe the medals or something as well. Um that's that's the ideal, but that's gonna be quick. It's quite a big map. But I think it's a wonderful idea what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:17

It's sort of it just I'll just nick it your ideas, mate. I'm nicking your ideas basically.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:25

You know, um, I'm all about inspiration, you know, um inspiring others.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:28

Uh you've got to be in, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:31

I think there's I think it's spiring. I think what we do is if it inspires others, I think it's a wonderful thing. It's just I think it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:39

I think at the end of the day, mate, you've got to inspire yourself. And hopefully, if um if you're inspiring yourself, if you're finding purpose in what you do, then um other people will want to kind of get in amongst that as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:52

They feed off the energy, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 2:08:53

I think they feed off the energy, and then they want to do it. And then it's like you said, it's like we talked about earlier, you just you connect with with like-minded individuals, then those of us who, as Joshua says, have the affliction. Uh, but mate, you were trying to wrap this up about 10 minutes ago, and then I went off on another tangent. So I have my tea. Same mate. Scoff, mate. Scoff, you've got to have your scoff.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:14

You can scoff. Uh then mate, no, mate, it's been awesome. I could chat to you so much more. Um, but yeah, now that I've got the operation variable in my head again, I'm gonna read up on that. But the chocks, you've you're the second person who's recommended that to me uh as well. Um, and my god, I've just made a few notes on again on other names as well. So I need to definitely look into that. You know, you've certainly opened my eyes to you know diving a little bit deeper as well. Um, but again, it's and I'll send you a picture of that Maroon Square book as well that I've got.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:42

Um, because I might recognize because I've been diving into it, might recognise it. Um, and hey, yeah, feel free to come up to Wrexham sometimes. We'll go and look at some graves together, like the weirdos that we are.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:55

Sounds like a plan, mate. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure, mate, and uh look forward to seeing you soon.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:00

Yeah, thank you so much, bro. And thank you for people for uh bearing with Waffle and uh hope everyone's great and uh much love to everyone. Uh just like Guez, and I'll catch you soon.