S5 E74 Behind Kojin: Chef Katherine Mederos on Motherhood, Michelin, and Miami

What does it really take to build a restaurant in Miami right now?

In this deeply personal episode of The Whet Palette Podcast, Chef Katherine Mederos of Kojin opens up about the reality behind the restaurant world: motherhood, Michelin pressure, burnout, sustainability, creativity, and surviving the chaos of hospitality while trying to build something meaningful.

From Kojin’s early pop-up days with no true kitchen… to becoming Michelin Guide Recommended… Katherine shares the sacrifices, growing pains, and emotional moments that shaped both her career and her family.

We also dive into pastry science, culinary school, sustainability initiatives, farm projects, Miami dining culture, work-life balance, and yes… finally fact-checking Chef Pedro Mederos’ version of how they met. 

This episode is raw, funny, honest, and one of the most human conversations yet on The Whet Palette Podcast. 

LISTEN HERE or find it on your favorite Podcast platform

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From my palette to yours, 

Cheers! 

Brenda

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hello and welcome to the Wet Palads Podcast. If you listen to the Wet Palads Miami Chef Spotlight episode featuring Pedro Medez, you already know how much love, risk, and creativity go into every plate at Cogent. This time the story continues through the lens of Catherine Medeiros, pastry chef, co-founder, mother, and the I was gonna say Quiet Powerhouse, but now I don't know about that. Quiet-ish powerhouse shaping Cogent 2.0. Welcome to the podcast, family. Thank you for having me. I need a second. Okay. Sorry, I threw you off. I know you told me. Two early in the morning. Two in the room. Off recording conversations. We're we're good, we're good. Okay, let's talk. Let's take a way. They start from the beginning with you. Sometimes I go in different order, but with you, let's start from the beginning. Where were you born and raised?

SPEAKER_03 0:56

I was born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Just like Miami. Igualito, the same. Exactly, obviously. That's why I was drawn here. Yeah, you're like, psh, this is like home. Oh my god. Uh, do you go back often now or not nearly as often?

SPEAKER_03 1:12

I was like, uh, we make it back once, maybe twice a year. Um, ironically, these last two years I've gone back two or three times for different family emergencies. Oh no. But I've gotten to see everybody, so it's been nice. My kid finally went up there this year for the first time uh in August. So he got to meet my siblings and see where I grew up, which was pretty nice. What is something you miss from there? Oh, seasons. This time of year, especially. I don't know what that is. I know, it's a foreign word here.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

What is seasons?

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Uh trees changing colors, not just brown and green. Oh, okay. Um pumpkin patches. Y'all have pumpkin patches on palm trees and plastic tarps down here. I don't know what the heck is going on. And it's like 90 degrees. Yeah, it's sweating. Sweating. No, I want my fuzzy sweaters and boots up to my knees. Uh, I really miss the seasons. And then just, you know, holiday cheer. Like Christmas time down here. It's great. It's cool. You see Christmas lights, but it's not the same as being back home. What is snow? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, right. I mean, we have trucks that bring it and you know, make flurries for the kids for two seconds. Yeah, with the with the um with the palm trees in the background. Yeah, that's all that's palm trees in the background, still at least 70 outside. I just posted a collage um on my personal Instagram that has my kids like 10 years ago in a in a uh Florida obviously pumpkin patch. And they're they're they both had like long hair, they're like hairs like stuck to their stuff because they were sweating so much, but I had them in like the fall outfits. And you know, you have to take the pictures fast because if not sweat.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

The first year I was down here with Pedro and I was so excited, I was like, yes, it's fall. Just for I was just so excited. I was like, I found somebody with a pumpkin patch. I didn't expect to find one down here, so I was like, Yeah, they've got a pumpkin patch, and I go down there and it's literally black plastic tarp, one pumpkin every like two feet spread out, and they're like, go pick. And I was like, what is this? This is like a parking lot. It's it is, yeah, usually a parking lot.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Okay, well, welcome um to Florida. Thanks. Uh so did you grow up in a food-centric family or were you the first to fall for the kitchen?

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Uh no, nobody in my family cooks uh at all. Like my mom is I love her dearly, but she's a fan of the believer that if you make a pot of chicken noodle soup, you can leave it on your stove overnight and just eat it the next morning for breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Uh it was a long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

And when did food shift from something you loved, I'm guessing, to something you wanted to pursue?

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Um, so I would bake around the holidays with my grandma. Um, and I was like, oh, this is fun. When the seasons. Yes, when the seasons came around. And um when I was starting to decide what I was going to be doing after, you know, high school and when I graduated and everything, I started going to school for architectural engineering. Um, something I was really into and I loved it. But then when I was sitting at a desk for eight hours in a row, staring at a screen, I absolutely hated life. And obviously, in my underdeveloped brain at the time, I was like, oh, architectural engineering to baking cookies. So I ended up going to uh community college and I got my first associate's degree in culinary arts. I then continued on and got a certificate for baking and pastry. And then I was like, well, if I'm gonna do this, I might as well get an actual degree in it. And then that's when I went to the Culinary Institute up in New York.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

And how long were you there?

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Oh, I was there for three years. Um I started in fall of 2017 for my associates in baking and pastry. I did my concentration in advanced pastry arts out in California, where I met Pedro. And then uh I returned to New York in 2019 and finished out my bachelor's of um hospitality management, business management with high school.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Is that something that you recommend? Because everyone feels differently about that.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

If you're planning on just working in a kitchen, working on the line and kind or even front of house, I don't think it's necessary. Uh I know plenty of amazing chefs that it's not necessarily cheap either. It is not cheap whatsoever. I mean, I went on a lot of scholarships. I busted my butt to make sure as much of my tuition was paid by somebody else as possible. Um but no, I don't think it's necessary unless you want to open your own business. I know chefs have a reputation for, oh well, I only cook and someone else handles the business side, and I never wanted to be that person. So that's why I specifically went for a business management degree with a focus on hospitality. And uh I mean for me it's worked out great. I can't argue.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

What are some what is something from that schooling that you feel still guides you today?

SPEAKER_03 5:46

The rigid structure, I think, is really great, the discipline from it. Not only in the kitchen but out of it. Um you know, CIA is or it was a military school originally. Um it's meant for veterans, so they kept that kind of structure and that discipline. So when I was there, it was something almost foreign to me. Even though I was, you know, raised by two military parents, it just didn't translate quite the same. Um so when I went to school and I started doing my academics specifically outside of the kitchen, the same structure and discipline that was in the kitchen translated over to academics, and I've kept that same, the same systems and everything in place, and that's how we run our business now.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

So if Pedro was here, he'd say of course military, yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

That man. But he's not here. He's not here, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Hi Pedro. Did you ever consider going into savory, or is that just it was as it was like never an option? Like, or for you, like you just weren't as interesting focus, no.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

It was never an option. I mean, it's great. I I love it, I'll eat it any day of the week, obviously. But um for for my specific desire, no. I I love pastry, it's much more of a science, it's more exact, uh, it's a lot more technical. You know, if you mess up your Burblanc, you can kind of just m mount it with a little bit more butter, a little bit more salt, you know, fix it here and there. You mess up a cake and it falls flat on its face, you gotta start from the beginning. Um that being said though, uh being a pastry chef is not easy. There's not many opportunities uh wherever you go. So I have worked a hotline for majority of my career, uh even as a supplemental to pastry or in exchange of. So I've I can work every station in the kitchen from dishwasher through Garmo, saute, and my favorite is Expo. That's where you can only see me at the restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

And and I never hear you. That's why I'm kind of like quiet ish. Quiet storm. No. She's like, if you only knew what I'm saying under my breath. Oh, you know, the the guys in my kitchen will tell you otherwise, but the guests should never hear you. We can't hear you. I've never heard you. And actually, I don't see your face either. So you could be like, I mean, yeah, that's your life. Get it done. Get it together. Oh my gosh. So you've jumped on the line at um a Kojina, I'm guessing. So at some point you're like, get out.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Yeah, I got it. Our original Kojina, I used to run it with just Pedro and I. I know. So that was a lot easier. Um, this one, it's a little bit more. I mean, there's more to the business side. Actual like kitchen. There's an actual kitchen now. Our team is larger. So, like, we just put out a new menu recently, so I don't know all the pickups. Okay. And you know, that's something I try really hard to know at least majority of our menu. And right now I just don't. Between pastry and admin and front of house, like I'm stretched so thin. So every now and then when they're like, hey, jump on the line, I'm like, okay, but you gotta talk to me. Like, right, we gotta figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Expo fascinates me. I like it. It's my favorite position. I mean, I'm kind of like, how? How? And then I see that sometimes um it'll happen where I'll get up to go to the bathroom and like panic, you know, strikes uh whoever's like running or like, and I'm like, I'm so sorry I was holding it, but I have to go because I know that the rhythm was just right. Yeah, it depends what kind of restaurant, right? Like some restaurants don't care, they just come and put it down whether I'm there or not, or me or whoever. And uh, but sometimes I'm like, I'm just gonna wait until I take the last bite and then I'll go because I know they're getting ready. Right in between. Right. But sometimes I'm in the middle of saying a story or something, and I'm like, I'm just gonna go to the bathroom. But as I'm doing it, I I realize they were about to turn around with I'm like, Yeah, I've just messed up the whole rhythm.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

I'm so sorry. So sorry. Hey, I mean, that's my team is amazing, and that's one of those things that they're trained on. Like, if the food is up on the pass and there's nobody at the table, A, my kitchen messed up because they're not paying attention. Exfil messed up because they're not looking around. And if a server puts food on a table and there is not a guest there, oh, they have a rough night coming.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Because that's even I cringe when I when I see it happening. Oh my god, they didn't do that.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Exactly. And you know, TGI Fridays, wherever you are, it doesn't matter. But when you have food that is at a specific temperature or, you know, different things like that, it's it's really important to get it right the first time.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

It is. I just saw um I was just at a restaurant a couple days ago, and they um they put the plate down and the this little cute shaped pear thing they had on top, like a little flower, like tipped over. But you know, I have my camera already, you know what I mean? So of course I I see the guy's horror because he knows I'm so I just I made eye contact with him and I took the little r the rose and I just put it back. And he's like, like, because he I don't know if he thought I was gonna photograph with that. Well, that's the thing, yeah. I'm like replating everything. I'm like, don't worry, I got you.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Well, he can't reach over and touch your food. Like he loses his job immediately.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

But it was like an awkward two, three seconds where I looked at him, kind of like acknowledging, I know what just happened. Um, it's okay, I got it. I picked it up, and then he kind of had like a sigh of relief because then of course my flash came out. Yeah, yeah. So now it looks perfect. It's all good. It's back to perfect, yeah. Oof. Um, okay, so let's go back to where it all begins. How did um you and Pedro first meet? I know his version, but today we will fact-check everything he said before. Oh god. Episode 21 for those interested in more scoop. Yes. Because he had a lot to say.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

He always does.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Here is, and I know you were there that day, but you were, you know, you were you were good, actually. You didn't like jump in too much. No.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

No, I did not.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Okay. All yours. So the real conflicting story. The real story. The keys, the taco bell, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yes. So it's been six years now. We just celebrated our anniversary. So, you know, we're gonna claim old ages and making our brains fuzzy at this point. But I remember seeing him when I first moved on to campus.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

I might have to do a side-by-side. That would be really funny. Like him saying something and you saying something else. He's wrong. Obviously. He's obviously wrong. Um This is why you're here by yourself.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got kicked out. No, so I moved on to campus and it was my first day out in California on the California campus.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

You're so young. I was, I was a baby. I mean, you're still a baby, but you were so much younger.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Um, no, so he was the RA for both of the buildings. He was checking everybody in, and horrible to say, but I just remember looking at this man, he was completely shaped. No facial hair, no hair on his head, completely shaved. I was like, wow, that is an interesting choice. Because he definitely looks like you know a man who looks like he needs to have a beard on, he looks like that kind of man. And he was baby-faced. Okay. But whatever. So then I go through, I I, you know, check into my room, whatever, and then a couple weeks pass, and I'm really good friends with this one girl, and she is talking to Pedro because she has a crush on him. And I was like, well, whatever. I was not interested. I had no desire to interact with anybody in California in that way because I was like, I gotta bounce back to New York in a couple months. Yeah. She starts talking to him, and then he's obsessed with somebody else, and it was just like this whole college drama wasn't worth it.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

And so culinary triangle. Yeah, right. Love trying obscene.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

And so then one day um when the California fires started coming through, we had no power. All the power got cut to Napa Valley, and specifically where we were, and I wasn't about to spend the kind of money to go live in a hotel for a couple weeks. Most of the students weren't in that kind of position. And so he and I started talking more like people and not just, oh, I'm here because she doesn't want to talk to you by herself. And then we started talking, he saw a couple of my tattoos and some of them, you know, reference um Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Miami. Um, and we just started up a conversation. And from there we actually became friends and it wasn't just like acquaintances. And then the night of technically it was technically the night of trunk retreat in California, where like the school, you the students can set up their cars and go trick-or-treating to everybody's car in the parking lot. Uh they do that in college. It was weird. When you're bored and there's nothing to do in the middle of Napa Valley for the kids, basically. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Um No, I I thought you guys were trunk. Oh, you were setting it up for the kids.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

No, I mean, I say kids. I the kids in CIA are coming in at 17 years old.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

So I was just setting it up because I had literally nothing else to do on a fucking Friday night.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Um, there was this one very creepy kid who came over in a trench coat dancing with an inflatable alien.

unknown 14:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

And he kept like, like jiving closer. There's no better word for it. And so I stood behind Pedro. Pedro's a rather large, intimidating human being, so I stood behind him. And he protected me from this guy in a trench coat with an alien.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

And then that's none of this, by the way, is in his story.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Oh, I that's what I'm saying. He's wrong. He is so wrong. Um, and then we ended up going out for burgers and shakes after the entire event ended, and that was the night we actually had our first kiss. Okay. So there's that. His favorite story to say, though, is um we were in the the lobby of our dorms, and I was it's a table like this. I had all my stuff spread out. I'm working on uh assignments. It's like one in the morning. I'm just trying to get my stuff done. And my keys are set out on the table. On my keys, are my car keys, my dorm keys, everything. And I had just bought a car, like a used car. But for me, I had just bought a car. It had no plate, no license, like no license plates, no insurance, nothing. So it's just sitting there waiting for the paperwork because I was registered in Ohio, living in New York, now living in California, so it took a minute to get everything together. He goes, I'm hungry. I was like, that sucks. Like, you got food in your dorms, go. Right. And he goes, Well, I'm gonna tackle bell. He swipes my keys and starts walking out of the fucking building. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

So that one we could fact check. So then when you can fact check.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

So then I'm like shoving all my stuff into my bag and I'm like, where are you going? You can't drive my car. It's not allowed on the road. Like, you don't, you're not supposed to have my keys. He goes, Well, I'm going. You can either get in or I'll be back. And I got it. What else are you gonna do? Right? You gotta make sure and you're still in. Yeah, still in. You're like, damn it. Hey, I got a free taco bell that night, okay? Like, okay, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

So then yes. That was before the kiss. That was before the kiss. But so this is like the whole depends on whose store you go by, because I remember the first day we met, which is when I moved on to property. Right. He remembers the first time we went off property together, and I r make it the first day we had a kiss. Okay. So, like, depends on where you're going with the stories. Okay. Uh, and then I mean the rest is history by now. Like I said, six years later we're we're still in it.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

So tell me about that transition. So a relationship begins.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

So yeah, uh relationship began, and then that was end of October. Um So it's your anniversary now. Yeah, we just we just celebrated our our our six-year dating anniversary. Our dating anniversary is October 21st. Our son was born on October 22nd, he just had his third birthday, and then our wedding anniversary is October 23rd. We just celebrated our fourth wedding anniversary. So we we make sure we just put it all in one week. October, yeah.

unknown 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Um because it's a season.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

Yeah, it's a season. It's a only season down here. No, so our our relationship started end of October. Um, somewhere in between October and the beginning of December, he and I flew down here to Miami for the first time together. His cousin was getting married, and that's when I met the Cuban family. Uh so sorry. Yep. Yeah. First time I met the entire family at a wedding, and his aunt felt the need to publicly humiliate me. And so that's a whole I'm sure, I'm sure it was out of love. Oh, yeah, now. Right. Now, because I was the only non-Hispanic in the entire thing. Not only non-Hispanic, you're from Ohio. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

That's like a whole different kind of like whiteness. So can I say something? Yes.

unknown 17:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

That was a whole different dump story right there. Oh, you were the cu gringa.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Pretty much, and I'm like, what are why are these people yelling at each other? He's like, oh, we're just talking. Why is it going until four in the fucking morning? Like, I'm tired. Can we go to sleep? No. Kids sleeping on the floor and chairs. Yeah. It was a whole thing. And then um music. End of December finally came around, and it was time for him to he graduated, and it was time for him to move back home, and it was time for me to move back to New York. I had to finish out my degree. And I looked at him and I remember very clearly looking at him and going, so like, we're good, right? We're done. I don't do long distance. I've had bad re bad luck with it. I was like, I'm not doing this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. And he's like, the fuck are you talking about? No, we're not done. This is this is nothing. This is easy.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Sounds like him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah, right? He's like, I'm not accepting that. Um, and so from basically January until the world ended in March of 2020, almost every other week he flew me down here. And so I spent every couple of weekends here in Miami. You know, he was working at Altar at the time, so I got to know the team over there, and we started getting the house ready. We have a we're we're we were living together in his house, and then when the world ended in March, uh March 13th, Friday the 13th. I remember that date very specifically. Yeah. Um, I was informed that my housing, my job, and school would all be canceled, basically. For lack of better terms, right? I drove home for a quick moment, celebrated my brother's birthday. I was there for four days, and then I drove straight down here. Lived here ever since. Um End of 2020, we started EMP Dumplings in South Miami, where the old Threefold location used to be. We were there from November of 2020 through something like March of 2021. And then they decided that they were not gonna renew their contract there, like Threefold wasn't gonna stay there, and they gave us plenty of heads up, so we posted on Instagram, we're like, hey, we're leaving this spot, we're outgrowing the pop-up scene. Like, is there something else anybody else can offer us? And then that's when we met the team from Hachadori Roman. Um he was like, Hey, I've got a restaurant over in Little River, I'd love to see what you guys can do with the space. We go there, and again, Pedro has another amazing funny story about his first reactions of that space. And we go there and we're like, Yeah, this looks awesome. It's a 10-seat counter, it's a space just for ourselves. We didn't have to, you know, pull pots and pans out every other day when we were there. And then we we did a tasting menu there for two years, which is crazy. Looking back now, I'm like, that A, that didn't feel like two years. And B, like 10-seat counter, we had no, we had no stove, we had no anything. We had two IKEA induction burners. You've seen that set up a handful of times. And yet six months later. Six months later, you know, we we were we're going for it. So uh yeah, I mean we were there for two years. We were supposed to be a six four to six month pop-up. We lasted two years, and we decided we were outgrowing the the space itself. And but the Michelin guide. Oh my gosh, yeah, that was within six months. Yeah. The Michelin guide came out again. I don't know what's going on anymore. Uh the mission guide came out. It was a huge deal. And we had no idea what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Because yours like a pop-up, but not really like little little and like we didn't know if we didn't even have a kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Yeah, we didn't have a kitchen, we didn't know if we were even, you know, up for any kind of award because we didn't know what the mission guy was doing. That was their first year. Nobody really had a a clue of what the guidelines were gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

And then I remember um I was being interviewed for a board position uh for a college I used to attend back in Ohio, and they were interviewing me and they had a camera there, and I opened up my phone in between filming the takes, and there's the email from Michelin Guide. Like, hey, fill out the information. Not oh, you got anything. It was just like, I'm looking for your information. And I'm like looking at my phone, like, what is this? I thought it was spam at first. And then I showed it to Pedro and he starts crying. When we realized that it's real, he like started crying. He's like, We're in the Michelin guide. So then it was like that weird waiting period between when we got the email of, you know, give us all of your information, right? And when the ceremony came along of, okay, are we recommended? Are we getting a star? Right. We had so many people come in and convince Pedro specifically, like we were getting a star. And I'm like, there's no way. We didn't have a bathroom. Like you had to go through three doors to get to a bathroom. We didn't have a kitchen. I was like, that's right. The bathroom was outside on the right. And you had to go through two locked doors to get to lock down the code. That's right. That's an outrageous thing. Yeah. And so we spent that weird waiting period kind of in limbo. Guests thought we were getting a star, you know, people thought that we were. Not even recommended or had anything going. So when the ceremony came around and we became a recommended restaurant, that was insane. You know, again, a 10-seat counter hidden. We we had no idea that that was even a possibility. And then we got it that year. We kept it the next year. And then when we announced that we were going to be closing that location, I remember like him and I having this conversation of what do we do? Like, so we ended up emailing the Michelin guide. I was like, I don't know what the process for this is.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

What should we do?

SPEAKER_03 22:31

So I emailed them and I'm like, hey, this is our last date. I just want you to know. So it's not in the guide anymore.

unknown 22:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

So because when we closed, it was one of those things like we're done. At the time, we had no idea if we were gonna find another location or not. It was just leaving it up to the universe hoping that something worked out.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

And it took us a year and then almost a year to the date from when we closed, we opened the colour.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

And in between, you were doing like selling like jams and little things.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Yeah, we were like dabbling in, you know, the small retail products. We were consulting. Pedro and I picked up jobs. I mean, we also had Jameson at that time. Jameson was very small, uh, very, very fragile at the time. So we were like trying to balance our schedules, and we went from, you know, owning our own business, making our own schedule, knowing exactly what to expect day to day, to suddenly being at the mercy of, as many parents find, you know, employers and scheduling and transportation and babysitters. It's the first time I'd ever had to find a babysitter for my son.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

In come the Cubans.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Oh no, I wish. Paige's mother is amazing, but she lives all the way down in homestead.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

So she would only take in certain times because she works. Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

So, like I said, we had to find like an actual babysitter.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

And so it was like all these weird things, and that was like the longest year of our life. But in the middle of everything, uh, I mean, I was still, I was going to school. I was, you know, we were trying to figure out if we were getting a location, then we found a location, we lost it. Like we went through the process of falling in love with the space and then losing it. Whether it was funding or somebody else wanted the space or, you know, something just didn't work out. So when we finally found our our current location, we were over the moon. Not only was it a relatively good price, it was the size that we wanted, it was in the gables, it was, but it's right on the edge, so it's not, you know, Miracle Mile, it's not Giralda, where it's pretty accessible. It's very accessible. Parking's not ideal.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah, but I've never had a problem with that, but that's the thing. At night when you come, because it's all offices, so at night it's all empty.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Never once.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

So that was the thing. We spent, you know, two months, three months maybe renovating the space ourselves. Uh again, we had no idea. I didn't know what contractors to find or who does this or who does that. So we took a very hard crash course in that. We painted the walls, we built the furniture, we we did everything. And then it was time to open. And Pedro and I just looked at each other and we're like, Here we go. Okay, we're we're starting again. Here we go. And you know, that was when we opened in July of 2024.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

24.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Yeah, so we've been open for about a year and a half now. It's been a whirling. Like I said, that year of waiting was the longest year ever. I mean, we had, you know, we had Jameson, we were finding jobs, trying to cover bills. We I was still going to school, I was going for my master's degree. My my brother-in-law was killed, so we were like fall flying back and forth. You know, Pedro and I were trying to get you know our health under control. It was just a lot of things. So by the time the restaurant opened, we're like, it was almost a breath of fresh air to be like, okay, this is what we're focusing on now. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yes, let's find a new chaos.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yeah, let's find a new one. Just keep adding. Yeah. And and so when we opened, everything was, you know, we were.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

So I think everyone, myself included, was just happy to have you guys back.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

It was so nice to be back.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

With a real kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yes. Oh my gosh, our kitchen's huge. Yeah. Uh no, it was it was just so nice to open those doors and have guests come back in. The same guests that have been with us since, you know, 2020 for the dumpling pop-up or Cojin or the original Kojin, they came back in and they're like, wow. It's like seeing, you know, seeing people grow up. We kind of went through our little steps. And it's absolutely been fantastic. We've got an amazing team. And, you know, there's restaurants usually have a high turnover rate. Of course. But we've been very lucky that most of our team, when they come in, they're they're staying. And if they are moving on, they're moving on to positions better for them, which is something we've always told them like, if you need to move on, no hard feelings.

unknown 26:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Do what's best for you, whether it's more money, closer to home, yeah. I'm like, yep, Chris is there.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

I'm like, I walk into the kitchen at Dojo and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what? No. Am I thinking wrong? I'm like, you're not supposed to be here. He's like, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

No, we had a whole conversation and he he was he was we were all very sad to see Chris go. Of course. I was just thrown off.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

I'm like, I'm not what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Uh I'd just been to Cogin.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Like and it was literally from one week to the next, right? I felt like he he was a core part of our team and he ended up leaving. But he talked to us and he was like, look, I've been with you guys for years. He'd been with us for like three years. He's like, I know how you guys think, I know how you operate. And he hadn't really uh been in any other kitchens. He and he looked at us, he's like, I want to learn more. And we're like, go for it.

unknown 27:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

You know, we're never gonna tell you not to. So if you ever need anything, and we still talk to him. I mean, he literally we just saw him on Jameson's birthday.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

He's not um is who was the chef that you sent to culinary school or you sent me.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

That was that was him? Yep. So he was working with us and then he went to CIA. When he graduated, he came back with us, he helped us open this new version of COGIN. Okay, and then he was like, All right, I think it's time for me to take another step. And he's been killing it over at Dojo. I mean, we've dined there like three or four times now.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

I love Dojo. But at Dojo too. Um, what is um how long from when you opened to when the Michelin guide came around again?

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Oh my. All right, so we opened in what Julue July of 24?

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Because it was almost like you kept missing that window after because they you got the recommendation and then you closed. Yeah. And then they came back again, but you guys were closed. So now you weren't up for it.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

So it was that that third year, I think the guide came out, we were closed. And now the fourth year, maybe I'm missing up my numbers there.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

But no, twenty two, twenty-three, yeah. You weren't you weren't open, and then twenty-four you reopened.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Okay. So yeah, so that one again, since you opened after April. Yes, we opened in July of 24.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Right, July. So then the guide didn't come back until now, right? So that answers my own question. April. Yeah, now that we've now we did talk the math out. We could we're good.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

But again, we got so this year it was a little weirder because we got another email. But this time I knew what to expect. I filled it all out and I waited a day or two before I told Pedro this time. Good for you. Because I was like, let me get everything under control, like let's let's figure that out. So then I told him, and then it started a whole nother thing because as you know, and as you reported on, there were invitations going out, there was speculation flying around. So everybody, it used to be that if you got the email that invited you, you got a star. And I was like, Right, or a bib, or a big or a bib. Right. But when we got the invitation, I was like, I know we're not at a one star. I would love to say we are. I mean, I want to have all the confidence in the world, but like we'd barely been open. We weren't at a one-star level yet. And then again, same thing. People started understanding that, you know, oh, Michelin guide's coming around, all these things, and they start hyping not only us up, but our team up and everything like that. And they're like, You're getting a star, you're getting a star, all these different things. And so we're all trying to be very realistic. Pedro and myself and our team were trying to be like, hey guys, like nothing is set in stone until we are in the middle of that ceremony.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

And so, of course, we saw you, we went up to the ceremony, it was absolutely amazing. I've never been up there, I've never been to a ceremony, I've never even been there for seasons. That was like an amazing thing. You had the new shoes. I had the new shoes that gave me two blisters in 20 seconds. I was laughing so hard at that. Yeah, I mean, you know, I the second the ceremony was over, I ran back to our room and I put it on my sneakers. I was done. I do not wear heels. Um, so then we we got you know called up as a recommended, and now we found out that we got a plaque, you know? I know. And it was one of those most amazing feelings being surrounded by other people, not only from Miami, our friends in Miami, but everybody from the state of like, hey, we did it. We're what? Like at the time there was 71 in the guide. I think that's decreased a little bit now as some closures have unfortunately happened. But, you know, out of 70 restaurants in a state, especially the size of Florida, we were beyond thrilled. And our our team, I'll actually have to email it to you, our team made us an amazing video uh while Pedro and I were out of town that 'cause they were all celebrating. They were actually together watching the ceremony, they were all celebrating, and they made us an amazing little video of like, hey, you guys did it. Like, because for Pedro and I, we're in it every single day. You know, yeah. Our kid is at the restaurant, we're in there every single day. So it's so easy for him and I specifically to just lose focus of we're actually doing something.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

You know? And so um they made us this amazing video that we came back, and I actually apologized to our team when we got back. Like, I was personally upset because I was like, I feel like we let them down a little bit by not getting a star. And I know realistically, I know, right? Like now when I'm out of it, like now I'm like, okay, well, we were barely open. I knew we weren't getting a star, but it's still one of those things moment of I was like, hey, I'm sorry you guys were so hyped up thinking we could have and we weren't. But honestly, the recommendation's been amazing. Not only is it an amazing accomplishment for us and our team, but it's pushed our team because they're like, we did this in less than a year, right? Right? And so in less than a year, we got this far. What can we do in two, three years? Right. What can we do now that we know where we're at and where we stand? Let's keep pushing it. And I mean, I don't it's been a minute since you've been into the restaurant, but even in the past few months, our team has consistently kept pushing themselves. And it's so amazing to see them driving that ambition rather than Pedro and I like harping out, okay, be better, be better, be better, do more, do more.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

And they're like, hey, actually, I've had this idea. Can we do this? Or I want to do this, how can we make it even better?

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

So it's been a lot of fun. And the Michelin guide, like I said, the recommendation, absolutely amazing. It's only pushed our team and us to do even more.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Did you see a change in like reservations and or or people? Um I know Miami's been weird. Miami's very weird. We're weird. And then yeah, that that happens in April, and then we're going into like summer, so it's kind of like, yay. But I I I'm I'm just I just wonder going into summer without the star, I mean without the recommendation, and then going into summer with a recommendation.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I mean, I can't see a little bit of a dump. You know, on both sides, but I mean, we have the plaque up in our restaurant, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Which is huge, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

It's massive, it's great to see it.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Like people I know they allow um um they allow restaurants to come up with their own as long as they use um logo branding guidelines. But that has lent itself in the past, as I've reported, uh, to uh fake uh blurred line, fake plaques and stuff like that. So it's so great. It's great that we actually Michelin. Everyone that was recommended last year got an actual non-fake plaque.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

Oh, because originally before we knew that we were gonna get a plaque page, we're like, oh no matter what, we'll just like take a photo of us at the ceremony and we'll put it up in the restaurant. Yeah. You know, like just a nice touch that was there. So then when we got the plaque and we're like, ooh, this is awesome. And so our our our space actually just landed perfectly. It's right there, it's above the past. Perfect. It's it's it's great.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Like a reminder.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Um I wish I like I can't speak to both sides with and without it for the summer because we weren't open long enough either way. But I did not see people coming in specifically because of that. Okay. It was a nice bonus when they're dining and they're like, oh hey, like that's a Michelin plaque. And sometimes people aren't as familiar, so they're like, no, they forgot a star. Right. And I'm like, no, we're we're recommended. We're amazing and thrilled to have it, but we are recommended. And we even have it, you know, on our website, on our menu, and everything like that. I think the thing that helped us the most this summer was Miami Spice.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Everyone's saying that. Miami Spice or Miami, oh that's it.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Because Coral Gables does their own like little preemptive to Miami Spice. Similar? Similar. I think it was like 55 this year or something for us. You have like options. So we did Taste the Gables immediately followed by Miami Spice, and that is what pulled us through the most of the summer because it was a very brutal summer. And even with that, we still, you know, saw immensely lower cover counts than what we we we wanted, first of all, and for what most of us are expecting for Miami. So shout out to GMVCB because Miami Spice saved us this year. Um and then next year I think it's one of their anniversaries, so you know, they're making an even bigger hoopla out of it, which we're excited to be a part of on that.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Whose anniversary?

SPEAKER_03 34:50

The the GMVCB for Miami Spice.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Oh, okay. I didn't realize that. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

I think it's like their 25th anniversary, something like that. They there was a newsletter.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

It would make sense.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

But um no, I mean, like I said, when people come in, they see it on the m the menu, they see it on our website, it's on our Instagram, but it doesn't really click. Like that's a recommendation.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Right. So yeah, no, I mean, yeah, it's confusing. Not everybody understands, right? What's the difference between that? Most people don't even know a bib gourmand exists.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

And they keep um some in some states or in some countries they call it a selection. Oh, okay. They call um uh uh so you you made the selection, which can be used broadly. Yeah. Because you're also a selection if you're a star, but then no, you're just selected. Oh wait, what? Yeah, it's a difference, so it gets confusing. Yeah, a little bit here. See? I told you the hair goes crazy. There you go. Thank you. Um okay. So going back to GMCVV, so that was really good. Okay, so as far as um, so it should be picking up now.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

We're hoping.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

I'm starting hoping for everyone. I'm like, yes, please, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Uh, you know, Halloweens this weekend, and then we're going into November. And I mean, we've been surviving by offering private events and you know, things like that. We started our brunch service on Saturdays. That's been a couple months since Saturday, not Sundays. Not Sundays. No. Sundays.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Sundays we do private like showers.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Sunday and Mondays we try to keep it just for private events, uh, and very few because Sundays and Mondays are our two days with our kid.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

So um, but Saturday brunch from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. has actually been really fun. Okay. It's a great changeup for our team. It's a lot of a lighter, you know, introduction for people who aren't quite sure what cogin is. It's like you know brunch food. This is just our take on it. Yeah. And it's cheaper. It's earlier in the day. You don't have to find a babysitter because it's a lot more family friendly. So like that one's been really good. Um, and then starting, I mean, I guess next week, starting in November, we're actually only going to be open Wednesday through Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Um, for the sake of our team more than anything. Um, you know, business has been a little bit slow, and I want to make sure that I'm able to give all of our team their hours. You know, we we have a small team, you've seen. We have like seven people on our payroll right now. And so, in order to not overstretch them and to not under deliver to our guests, we made the slightly painful decision to close one more extra day. So we're gonna be open Wednesday through Saturday, and it's honestly kind of exciting because now we have Tuesdays. Yeah, not like I mean, most of our team is at least getting a half day for that day, but Tuesdays is when we're doing like our RD. We're expanding our sustainability. So the things I brought today, you know, are our retail lines.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

I got little gifts, people.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Woo! So like Tuesdays is now our our fun day to kind of like reignite the creativity that we've kind of been losing as we are struggling in the day-to-day. Like, like I said, Pedro and I are there every single day all day long. So now Tuesday is like that breath of fresh air back to be like, hey, just what fun projects do you want to do? And our team's invited to come in at any point in time. You want to try something? Great. Let's order it, let's do it. So I'm excited for that one. Starting next week, we actually get to have that kind of fun again.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

What are you excited about menu-wise coming up?

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Oh, so it is fall. And it is fall. I'm gonna put that in quotations. It is fall. Um, and so fall flavors for me, like back home, are warm and cozy, like caramelized apples and all those things. So we like I said, we just switched our tasting menu. So for pastry, we have caramelized apples with a fish sauce caramel, a whipped whiskey ganache, like it just falls in a bowl. And then I wanted to do the exact opposite because we served two desserts for the tasting menu. The exact opposite now it's like it is matcha and pistachio, and it's ice creams, caramelized sugar, so it's a lot lighter, but it's a great like contradiction to each other. Here's a really cool dish, here's a really warm dish, finalize out your meal. And you know, Pedro just put on dry aged duck again. We have a dry aging program in the business. We we finally got our dry ager and that we've been dying for. Um, so we have dry aged duck, we have all these amazing, hearty flavors. We're working with all the local farmers, what produce, because here in Miami, fall doesn't mean the end of the growing season, it means the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

So we've been going on tour farms and everything, seeing what they have and what you know is coming into seasons, trying to plan out the menu that way. And it's actually been a lot of fun because summer everything kind of died out, so now we're like, here's here's everything.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

A new bounty.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Here's a new bounty, like pick and choose what you want.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah. We're excited. That is exciting. Let's go back to the name um I meant to uh ask earlier. Um, it centers around the Japanese word kojen, meaning personal and individual. Yes. Um, how do you bring that concept to life?

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Like I mean, so uh when we got the space, we wanted to make sure that it felt like you were dining at home with us. That's something Pedro and I used to do a lot, which was invite guests over, and we have a small home. So everything was cozy no matter what. And um, but when we got the space, it was so much larger than what we were used to. We struggled with the idea of how can you make it feel intimate while giving everybody the space that they need. And I mean, we we've changed the color, we added a little bit more texture to everything, we put couches in there, but what our main thing was was focusing on the training of our staff. How our team interacted with our guests was the main priority for us. And I mean, Pedro's there every night. He is the star of the show at every single conversation he's in pocket. I mean, no, I know you don't have experience with him, and you get not familiar yet. He's so shy. Very shy, very reserved. Um, so he definitely brings a lot of character into the space itself, and he is a main draw.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Um, but we wanted to make sure that like our team greets you by name if you've been there before, if you've, you know, if you've become a regular. We have a regular who specifically requests that one table off in the corner because that is where they feel most comfortable. And we know that. The second their name pops up, they get their table, everybody, everybody's happy, right? And you know, we made the decision to lower our table count um over in the by the front windows, and we put in the couches. Right. So we have the our little, we call it the living room inside the lounge. We call it the living room. It's got a little coffee table, it's a couple of books that kind of show Japanese art and where we're coming from. And in order, you know, like I said, in order to offer that level of comfortability, we we removed some seats in order to put in our our record player, which is directly from our home. That was Pejo's birthday present one year. Yeah, yeah. Um, and his record collection over there. Again, it was just small little touches of everything of us personally that made the space come to life. We have our personal cookbook collection up above the pass, um, which is about a fourth of what we actually own. Picking and choosing what to go up there was very difficult. Um and so, you know, a little by little the space started coming to life. And we've been there for a year and a half now, and we we are finally starting to dabble on the idea of maybe we should start putting photos up. We've done a handful of amazing collabs, you know, different collabs over the past year and a half, and we've got photos and we've have all the sign menus and everything.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

And so we're we're starting, we're in the process of starting to put that up on the the walls to kind of again make it feel just more homey. We we like to say that you're not dining at a restaurant. It's like you came over to a friend's house to have dinner. And that's that's the heart of coging.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

I think that comes through.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Most of the time people get it, and you know, sometimes we miss our mark and we can just keep getting better from there. But that's just the entire point. We're we're really just there to serve good food and make people feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

There's no are you serving food at the uh the bar by the entrance? Or we don't? You you you serve a full menu there?

SPEAKER_03 42:36

We serve the full menu there.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

So it's just like three seats, no?

SPEAKER_03 42:39

It's five. Five, okay. Yeah, so it's uh we have a five-seat bar, um, 28 seats out on the floor, and then we have the chef's counter, the two seats at the chef's counter.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Oh, that's right, those two seats.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Those two seats, yeah. So um the bar itself, we we don't limit people to not do the tasting menu there.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Um, so you know, a lot of people, if especially if they're dying alone, they feel more comfortable sitting at a bar. No problem. We let them. Honestly, like you want to eat good food, enjoy the good food wherever you're most comfortable. Uh yeah, we're working on putting out a happy hour menu starting in November as well, which is really exciting. Pedro's like finally got a chance to bring back his sandos. I don't know if you ever remember the chicken sandals.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

No, I always wanted to have it and I never had it. For some reason, that's the one thing that exploded when we opened up. And when you did lunch for like a bit, yeah, that menu, I was always like, I want to stop in for lunch, and I never got to either.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

We were a little ambitious when we started doing lunch. Um, personally, for Pedro and I and for our team, we just did not anticipate the number of hours and dedication that it would take. So we we very quickly had a backpedal on lunch a little bit on that one. Um but no, so we're But the menu that you had put out.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

The menu for lunch, yeah. I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

I ate it every day for lunch personally. Right, right. But we're bringing some of those aspects back for happy hour now. Okay. So from five thirty to seven thirty, we're doing happy hour over at the bar specifically, but across the entire dining room if people are wanting it.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

I like that. We're excited. I think you guys are doing so good. Let's talk about um a new, well, not new favorite topic, but something that's you've been working very hard on. The sustainability and the minimal waste, which is part of Cogin's DNA. Tell me about that. By the way, side note, I've like completely just for I forwent every single question. I'm like, so now I'm not gonna be jumping back like I was gonna ask. I'm just sorry, off topic. No, no, it's great. It's great. I just go with your flow. So I'll go I'll get back to these. I'll make sure that I didn't miss anything. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Yeah, so sustainability is always one of those things that I've really loved. Um, I didn't really know how to address it or how to kind of delve into it. So in oh gosh, 2021, I had originally applied to do my master's in sustainable food systems, and I got accepted. Uh a week and a half after I got accepted, I found out we were pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

So And this was in the location.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

Oh, this was in our original coaching location, yes. No, no, no, like where did you do the studies? Oh, I did my sustainable food systems in CIA. I went back to my alma mater. Yeah. So this one was online, thankfully. Um except for three residencies. So I spent a week out in California and then two weeks individually out in New York for this degree. Um I just graduated in August, thank goodness. That's finally done.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Because you had just graduated.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Yes, I I finally graduated. Um, but I decided, Pedro and I had a conversation, and I was like, look, this is something I'm I'm really into. It's not going away. Because at first I was like, maybe it's just a phase. You know, you get into really into the project, Pedro's been really into one thing, and we're like, well, let's just leave it be. And then so I applied in 21. I ended up withdrawing my application. Jameson came around and I was like, no, this is something I really want to do. And if I don't do it now, even with the newborn, like I'm never gonna do it. So we we dove headfirst into that. I went to school, I did my master's in sustainable food systems, specifically with a focus on small independent locations like ours. Um and throughout the entirety of that program, I used COGEN as a cornerstone. Our original location and our new location, because I opened up during my program. And it has been amazing to see that guests are as receptive about these initiatives that I want to implement, and our team is is excited about it. So in COGEN, we not only compost all of our food waste, we recycle all of our glass bottles that gets turned back into sand for beach restoration, we recycle all of our cardboard, and those are just like the three main initiatives that we started right out the gate, basically. And since then it's just continued to grow. So now I have a I call it my farm project. It's a it's a shade house, it's about an 8,000 square foot shade house down in Homestead that I'm a big deal. Just a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Just 8,000. It's super tiny. So tiny.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

It's in my backyard. Um I'm slowly working on developing that. That's um a guest that had come in. He offered it to me. His mom, it's a property that his mom lives on, and she's not keeping up with it. So he was like, hey, if you can do this, you can use it, have at it. Let me know how I can help, which was absolutely amazing for me to hear. So we've been working on that for about a year now. And she's she's finally getting to a place where I'm proud of her. Okay. Um so we have the farm project now. And by that you mean the farm, not the mom. Yes. The mom's amazing. She she'll let me know when like the weeds are getting a little too high or the flowers are you know starting to droop over a little bit. But uh the project itself, it's been it's slow going. I'm the only one that goes down there. Um, nobody from our team has gone down there. Pedro helps rather begrudgingly um when I need a little extra manpower down there. But it's been fun. It's, you know, people say you do something that you love, do something that you're passionate about. And the restaurant is something I love, but the farm project has been something that is like my form of therapy. You know, I get away from everybody and I still get to do something that's really wonderful. Um, but from all of this, we started our retail products. So that one's been really fun working with our team to figure out, okay, well, if we bought we have to buy a case of strawberries, right? For our strawberry jam that goes onto our foitaues, what do we do with the strawberry tops that you're cutting off? What do you do with the extra strawberries that don't get processed into a jam in time? What if you make too much jam and we don't go through it? Like, how are we saving ourselves from wasting every step of the way? So, you know, from strawberry tops, we're making a vinaigrette. Strawberry tops and lemon peel vinaigrette, which has been great. It's delicious. It went on one of our um one of our salads a couple months ago. The extra strawberry jam, we've jarred it up. We've become super efficient at learning the different canning processes. Um so that one's been fun produce-wise, we we work with a lot of local farmers and our produce purveyors where if they have something that's on seconds, so you know, things that are a little too ugly to sell in a grocery store, or they just kind of ripened a little too fast before they could get shipped out. What can we get from that instead of watching that go to either the garbage or compost? What can we do to make that? And we've gotten a lot of really cool projects out that we made umoboshi this year. We're about to start um another round of vinegars with our scobies. Uh now I've gotten really into, I've nailed down the process how to make soap out of used cooking oil. So that one's been really fun. Um my team's a little, a little weirded out on that one. They're like, really? You want us to save the gross cooking oil after you know everything's been fried off? And I was like, yes. You're like, that sounds great. That's that's exactly what I want. Um yeah, and now uh as we were talking earlier, I've actually gotten into the sustainability community here in Miami and um different different initiatives and different projects, and people are very receptive to it, which has been great to do. So, how don't we have enough of it? That's the thing. It's yeah, it's almost common practice elsewhere in the country. Yeah. You know, especially coming from California.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Miami's trying. Miami is trying. And you're leading. I mean, you're one of the, you know, now you're leading, so that's good.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

It's been great. And um, so yeah, we've been doing all that. And then as part of my master's degree, my capstone project was to write a book. So I wrote a book specifically on sustainability within small independent locations. And most sustainability initiatives are focusing on, you know, corporate locations, McDonald's, you know, Domino's, these massive things where one small change makes millions and millions of dollars of a difference. Where, you know, mom and pop locations like Cogin, you know, you have to make a lot of small changes. We don't have the funding to put in this AI technology that tracks everyone's movement. We don't have the ability to get our own food composting machine to put out in the back of our property. You know, we have to find these small little changes that help us throughout the day. So that's where our retail products really started to shine through. It's like, okay, well, if I don't have to pay for produce that's getting thrown away, I don't have to pay for the composting, as much composting to be done, and I can make money from the products we're making, you know, a little by little. So that book is still working on it, but that book has it's been like a a guiding stone, uh a guiding book. It's been uh like a field guide for our team and um how to do smaller steps. And I actually had the chance to sit down with Chef Neiman Patel. Uh he chatted up with me. Um Chef Zach from Zack the Baker, he chatted with me. So I've been able to kind of like pick the brains of everybody that's been in the Miami food scene specifically and what they are doing and kind of like see what works, see what doesn't, because these are guys that have been around for years. You know, I've had my small little business for a couple of years now, but they've been here for forever. They've been a cornerstone of Miami. So that one's been a lot of fun to kind of like put together.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Are you gonna work for where can um diners, um, where can anyone buy your products? Are you gonna have like a little thing in the store? I mean at the front of the restaurant.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

So all of our products starting in November are going back up online. Um now that I have finished my degree and we have a little bit more time, we will have a storefront back up on our website. Uh products are available to buy in the restaurant if or if you want to pick up an order like that. But you know, we're doing small batches of everything. So everything's got limited quantities and nothing's ever getting doubled up or hot sauces, sure, but I have this pepper growing this season, that pepper that season. So we're we're really trying to make sure that you know it's seasonal, it's effective. I'm not gonna buy stuff just to make stuff, right? And then say, oh, this is my sustainability.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

With whatever, right? So it's whatever really, really was left over.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

That's great. So a geek cogent. Um I'm just thinking, I'm like, hmm, how can I benefit from this? Are you gonna do one of these?

SPEAKER_03 52:44

We talked about it, but he's got a full schedule, we've got a full schedule. I don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

He does the farm dinners. Exactly. They just open in Georgia.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Yep. It's crazy. Amazing. I was so thrilled when he was able to give me, you know, 30 minutes of his time. I was like, please, please. Oh, I love him.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

And I was just so sad that Urba closed. I'm like, I'm still like mad about that.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

I was so sad to hear that. And like I get it, you know, business is business, it sucks.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Of course. I'm still like mourning that one. Um, okay, let's switch gears a little bit. You're a mom, a chef, business partner, and the person who keeps everything running. Don't tell Pedro I said that. How has mother has motherhood changed your approach to work and creativity?

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Oh, I'm a lot more tired now.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Uh, I hear you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Um, so I mean, most of our guests at Cogen 1 saw me from when we found out we were pregnant all the way up until I gave birth. I worked up until two days before I gave birth to Jameson. And then I took about a month off and I came right back. I mean, there's there's photos floating around somewhere where I'm doing a service because one of our our one cook at the time called out and I've got Jameson strapped to my chest. I'm serving food to guests across the counter. It was a disaster of a time. But I mean, I loved it. Jameson has grown up in restaurants with us. Uh overall, I mean, it's been great, honestly. Um not only do I love my kid, obviously, but getting to see him interact with the food system in a way that like Pedro and I never got a chance to. So like Jameson comes down to the farm with me. He sees plants growing and he knows different herbs. If you pull the leaf off and he goes to sniff it or he goes, Mama, smell, you know, it's been a lot of fun. Um it has dampened my creativity a little bit because my my brain space is just so taken up. You know, you gotta remember, did you buy diapers? Does he have school lunch today? Did I pack him the right clothes? You know, you know the the constant running list of everything that you're always worried about. And then, you know, scheduling has been so hectic. He is in pre-K too right now. So, you know, we we get up at six in the morning, I get him to school by seven, I go straight to the restaurant, get to the restaurant by eight o'clock in the morning. I'm there until one when I have to leave again in the middle of my day, go pick him up. Now we bring him back to the restaurant, he eats family meal with us, so we get to see him for like an hour and a half, and then I take him back home, drop him off with the babysitter, go back to the restaurant, do service, leave the restaurant by midnight, get home, eat dinner, shower. I'm in bed by one. So I'm in bed by one, and I get up at you know six, six thirty with him, and that's just repeat every single day.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

And so it's you know, it's taken a while to get used to, hey, where is that work-life balance?

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

And that's why we have always said we are closed Sunday, Monday. Because Sunday I have uh my entire day with him. It's great. We go to the park, we go grocery shopping, whatever it does we need to do, but we have that entire day with him. And then Monday, he goes to school in the morning, and then we have the evening together. So I am there for you know, bedtime, bathtime, where most of the time during the week I just I don't get to do that.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

So, you know, there are challenges of okay, well, do I take on this extra event and get some more money for the business, or do I have a night with my son?

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:00

Do I take the day off of work and go to this mom and me event at school, or do I leave my team? Like, there's a lot of give and take, and I mean, by no means are we experts at this, we're still figuring it out. I still mess up. I didn't send him to school with a headband on today, like for whatever fundraiser they're doing. Um it's taken a lot of mental energy away from the business, but it's also brought so much more liveliness into the business. We just celebrate his birthday at the restaurant, like, and guests were coming over saying happy birthday to him because he I couldn't have him any other time. He went to school during the day, he was there during dinner service, so he had his little table during dinner service. You know, I don't think anybody faults us for it. No, um, sometimes it feels like that, you know, mom guilt kicks in and you're like, Oh, I I could have done this better. I need to spend more time with him, or I need to spend more time with the team, right? So that one, it's been a lot. Um and then we've had the problem before that in this industry, I am a small young female, and I do have a son, and I was going to school. So trying to have different conversations with different people of like, no, you need to respect me because not only is this my business, but I do know what I'm talking about. Right? Like, I've had I have five different degrees now of different variations, and all that is to do the exact same job of a man that's a few more years older than me who has no none of the schooling. So it's uh it's interesting the way people look at you differently. I brought Jamison to meetings at the bank with us. He he sits there, he's very well behaved, he's very polite, but it's still you're bringing the kid. You're bringing the kid to a work function, right? So it's it's interesting to see who is and isn't okay with those kind of interactions. And unfortunately, as it is, we have canceled some business with uh different uh uh groups or parties because they're not okay with hey, like I need a couple extra days on my deadlines. I I you know, he got the flu, he had COVID. Life happens, life happens, right? So it it's been it's been a learning curve. And we're only gonna continue. And now he's officially reached that age of, oh, are you gonna give him siblings? Oh, that one takes a stake to my heart every day, and I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm good. He is more than enough, and I do not have enough energy. I don't have enough time in the world.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

Unless those people are signing up to come work for you.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Exactly. I'm like, unless you're gonna babysit him and feed him and cook and clean and shine your own light on your own damn life. Leave mine alone. Thank you. So uh no, I mean it's been great, but it definitely doesn't come without its challenges. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

Um, who are your behind-the-scenes supporters, right? Every chef, uh all the chefs have a village, right?

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Family, friends. We we have an amazing group of people who support us through everything. Pedro's mom and dad have been so unbelievably amazing. Um as Jameson has gotten older now, they take him every Friday and Saturday night. Uh, you know, those are later nights in the restaurants. We don't leave there until 1:30, 2 o'clock in the morning some nights. So instead of us either having to worry about, oh, is our babysitter able to stay or one of us needs to leave, they just were like, you know what, we want more time with our grandson. And they live down in homestead, they had live on a ranch, and so he loves it. He gets to go play with the horses and the cattle, the dogs. He has no bedtime. I'll live with that one. Um, so they've been absolutely amazing. You know, our team has been. I I was concerned when we opened up this location because we had to have a team. Yeah, it didn't go from just Pedro and I and any other, you know, one other person. We went and we expanded our team so significantly. I was very concerned with would they be okay with me needing to step out some days? You know, they're they look at me some days and they're like, Chef, go. Like, get out. Right? Like, we'll pull you know 75-hour work weeks, and at one point in time, I'm like, Yeah, you know, you know, Jameson has a fever. Well, that's the thing, there's always a running to-do list. So, you know, Jameson has a fever, or this happened, or that happened, and they're like, Chef, go, like, we got this.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

And so it's been very weird. Like, hey, we we we made an amazing team. They know what they're doing. I trust them fully with our our restaurant. Like, I left for two weeks in August to go see my family and to graduate, and the business kept running.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

Like, so they've been one of the most surprising and most rewarding uh support groups that we've ever had. And then, of course, our friends, our friends have been there from you know, when we moved down, when I moved down here in 2020, they saw us working the pop-up where we made $200 a week. Pedro brought home 200 bucks a week, and I worked three jobs to sustain it, and they've watched us grow from that to coach and one to now to coach and two, and they're just like always supporting us, saying amazing things. So we've got such an amazing support group, something I never expected. And honestly, I I couldn't even put into words how much they are and how much they made to us because I'm oh always blown away. Jameson's birthday events, parties, my birthday, things like that. They're always just supporting us so much. The Michelin Awards, like I said, they put together the video for us, they all came out, they gave us cards and hugs, and it was just so overwhelming that some days Pedro and I, you know, we look at each other and we're like, how the hell did we manage such an amazing group of people when all we're doing is we're just cooking food.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

You know, so we love it, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

Definitely far from the Taco Bell days. Oh, I love a good Taco Bell. Oh I had some last night. Oops. Um, okay. Let's see, because you've been so good. You're like two do-too. I don't even have to look at much. Thank you. Um how do you decompress after a long service?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:46

So something Pedro and I had to work on a lot when we first started working together was work is work and you know, personal is personal. When your husband and wife, or you know, we were boyfriend and girlfriend when we started this business, we were still living together, it very much blurred the lines. Like, hey, we're at home sitting on the couch at two in the morning eating dinner, and I'm pissed at you because you burnt that one order of dumplings. Seems ridiculous now, but at that time we're like, dude, that that fucked us up for the night, you know, all these different things. So once we finally it took us a while, but once we finally got that, hey, work is work and life is life, as much as humanly possible, right? Uh, that helped a lot. And then for me personally, like I said, the farm for the past year has been mine. Like, I get up early at 6 a.m. with Jameson, I take him to school, and when I drop him off at school, I go straight down to the farm twice a week, at least. And I'm down there for an hour and a half, two hours, and I turn my phone off. Like, I'll shoot Pedro text, like, hey, I'm at the farm.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

And he knows we're good. Um, so for me, like that has been really rewarding. Ironically, as you know, the the list of to-do things in life are never done. So yard work at our home has been the newest project this year. Uh, we're redoing our front and back yard. So it's basically the farm work just extended. And then um pottery is something I picked up on the past couple of years. So a handful of our plates in the restaurant I actually made. That's right. And they have your your initials like carved into them. Yeah. Um, so I don't get to do that one nearly as much because I have to go to the studio and everything like that. But that one I I really love. Um tell me about the little flower arrangements.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

I love every time I come in, I'm like, oh, it's the first thing I take a picture of.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

So we have an amazing florist um from the flower jar. He comes in once a week, brings us brand new fresh flowers, whatever. We we give him no direction. We're like, hey, whatever looks great and feels great to you, bring it into the space. They've all been amazing, they're absolutely phenomenal. Um, so every week we get fresh flowers in, and then like, you know, special occasions and things like that. He gave me a beautiful bouquet for my for Pedro's of my anniversary, Valentine's Day. He took care of all the the girls on the team, things like that. So the flowers just it took us a while to get to that point. Pedro and I debated back and forth for a bit if it was worth the right, the additional cost more than anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Yeah. Um I don't I don't think if I if I imagine that layout, just you know, your tables and everything without it, it would look sparing. It would look bare. Yeah, it really brings it to life. And the thing about it, for listeners that don't know, is these are not like actual bouquets, they're very minimalistic in in design by this by design. So you're talking a little stem, sometimes two, three flowers at most, yeah, uh, on your pottery. You know, I don't know that is that the same thing. Those weren't mine, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

No, we we bought those from another local.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

But the one but there was one that was that had like your initials on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:40

There's a couple floating around. I have a couple of like little green vases that I've got. I definitely sat at a table.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

I was like, oh, because I was taking a picture. And and then the the the K was I'm like, oh, I was like, is this hers? I'm like, yeah. Yes. Um yeah, so it makes such a difference. It does. It really does.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:55

Now looking back at our photos from when we opened, I'm like, whoa, what happened?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

And it's not the same as just going to like, you know, whatever, wherever and buying flowers and putting it on some bowls.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:04

Exactly. No. And he brings in some of the most exotic, random flowers. They're little, they're the cutest. They're cute and adorable. And now we have we keep two large arrangements, one on the bar right as you walk in, to kind of just bring that welcoming energy in. And then we keep one over by the record player as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

But they're always on the ball. Okay. What are your um favorite Miami spots to unwind? Restaurants, cafes, beaches, hidden corners that you visit as a family, if any? Oh, we do not get out much at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

I figured. Um no, so I mean, Threefold over on Geralda is our go-to for coffee every chance we get. Um, my father was just in town. We actually took him over there for breakfast. Let's see. Uh Dojo. Pedro and I have just celebrated our b between Dojo and Zitsum. We celebrated our anniversary at Zitsum. We've gone to almost half of the Dojo collabs that they've hosted. Pedro was in a couple of them. Oh my gosh. We go to North Italia at Dayteland a lot. I know that's not, you know, anything fun or exciting, but Jameson loves it there, so we go there. That's really it. Oh my goodness. Now you're making me realize how little I actually get out and dine anymore. Maybe that's what we're gonna start doing with our Tuesdays instead. Okay. Date nights. I mean you could add it days.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

It could be early, so you could still get some goodnight sleep. Quote unquote sleep. Yeah, sleep.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

Yeah, no, I haven't been. We went to Requiveco. Pedro and I went to Requiveco when they opened, and I recently took our Sam Valentina. We her and I went over there a couple weeks ago, actually, right after they got mentioned in the Bonapet magazine. That was usually. Which was so exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

The cover, the freaking cover of the magazine.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:48

And we're like so proud for them. Um we snagged a two-top right at the end of their night. They were amazing. They let us stick way later than they should have.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

Um I'm sure they were so excited you were there. Yeah. Um that's really it. I haven't been out recently. Okay, new goals, new goals. It's new goals. Next year, we're starting. Yes. Uh, so what do you want your legacy to be in this city, both as chef um as a chef and as part of Miami's evolving culinary story?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

You know, I never thought about that uh at all. Any kind of legacy as far as I was concerned was with my kid. As long as he grew up happy and healthy and didn't have a childhood he needed to recover from, I was like, hey, we're doing all right. Um, but now as we're, you know, we're entering our our fifth year of business in the city, Pedro and I are starting to realize, like, hey, we actually we've been doing a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

Yeah, five years in Miami is 10.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

Yeah, yeah. It feels like it too, let me tell you. 10 anywhere else. Um so I mean, one thing I really just hope for for Cojin, I know Cojin's not gonna last forever. Like, it's just not in the plans for it to be one of those 30-year-long restaurants. But I hope Cojin at least shows that fine dining doesn't have to be white tablecloth, you know, kind of service. We really make sure that our our tasting menu, it is pricey because you know, at 11 courses, there's no other option. But we hope that our fine dining approach is just fun and accessible for a lot of people. And that, you know, Japanese cuisine specifically is more than just sushi or you know, steamed fish on a plate. And we're just kind of hoping that as we continue to grow and evolve as a business in Miami itself, that we kind of just leave our footprint. Me for sustainability and us as a whole for the different approach to how we treat hospitality. Because I mean, Pedro and I we say this to our team all the time: hospitality doesn't start when the first guest walks in, hospitality starts when our first team member arrives in the building. How we treat them, how they're starting their shifts and things like that. And that's kind of just where we're what we're focused on and what we want to leave behind is you know, hospitality at its core, but with inclusion for everybody because it's just food. At the end of the day, it's literally. We're just cooking good food that we want to eat and that we want to share with our friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Okay, sounds good to me. Okay, rapid fire palate cleanser. Oh, for fun. Favorite ingredient right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:10

Oh, favorite ingredient right now is definitely pistachio paste.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Paste. Flavor that defines you.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

Chocolate chip cookie.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

This you'll never take off the menu.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:22

Pastry, we're never gonna take the chocolate tart off, the triple chocolate tart, and savory the chauan mushi.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

Good. Um, sweet or savory breakfast.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

Savory.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

Um, dream destination for pastry inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:37

Ooh, Bali.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Yep. Song that puts you in the zone.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:43

So uh depends on the day. We range from horrible rap music to classical, so I have no answer on that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

Yeah, so so what you're saying is silence puts you in the zone.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

Most days, yeah. Nobody bothering me. Completely empty kitchen. Sounds great, honestly. I would think that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:02

I love it. Okay, so from the first pastry sheep dated to the evolving world of Kojin 2.0, Catherine continues to craft not only desserts, but experiences that tell personal stories one course at a time. That's a wrap for this episode of the Wet Palette Podcast. Now, you already know what I'm supposed to say, which is subscribe, rate, and share. And I know it sounds like the same broken record. Every podcaster says right. But here's the thing: those little clicks actually help keep the microphone on, the wine flowing, and the future sponsorship. Um, gods happy. So go ahead, rate the show, and tell your food friends, and you can follow along on Instagram at thewetpalette and visit thewetpalette.com for more delicious stories. Thank you, Catherine. Thanks so much for being like you were like an like a perfect guest. I'm just saying. Um, from my palette to yours. Cheers. Cheers. Bye, and don't be me.