S5 E76 Fireproof: A Candid Conversation with Chef Curtis Duffy

Chef Curtis Duffy has spent decades pursuing excellence at the highest levels of American fine dining.

In this episode of The Whet Palette Podcast, the acclaimed chef behind two-Michelin-starred Ever discusses the lessons learned from Charlie Trotter, Trio, Alinea, Grace, and the ongoing evolution of one of Chicago's most celebrated restaurants.

We explore the culture of modern kitchens, the pursuit of Michelin stars, and the countless details that shape a world-class dining experience, many of which diners never even notice.

Duffy also shares the story behind Ever's involvement in The Bear, what Hollywood got right about restaurant life, and why the series resonated so deeply within the hospitality industry.

The conversation moves beyond the dining room as we discuss Fireproof, his memoir about resilience, personal loss, mentorship, and the determination to build a life defined by purpose rather than circumstance.

Whether you're fascinated by Michelin-starred restaurants, hospitality, leadership, or the stories behind some of America's most influential chefs, this conversation offers a rare look inside the mindset of Chef Curtis Duffy.

There's also a nod to Cuban chancletas and pastelitos. Yeah, we went there. 

Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

All right. Chef Curtis Duffy hardly needs an introduction, but let's do it anyway. His career traces a remarkable path through modern American fine dining, Charlie Trotter's, Trio, Allinia, Avenues, Grace, and now Ever and After. Didn't have that. Along the way, he helped launch Alinea, earned two Michelin Stars at Avenues, three Michelin Stars at Grace, and currently holds two Michelin Stars at Ever in Chicago. He's a James Beard Award winner, the subject of the documentary For Grace, and most recently the author of Fireproof. Back here. A memoir that explores both the personal tragedy that shaped him and the relentless pursuit of excellence that followed. More recently, Florida has become part of his story. Splitting time between Chicago and Florida, he has developed a growing connection to our state. Welcome to the Chef Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

To the Chef, the WebPallet Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I guess I should just call it the Chef Palette Podcast because I know you. There you go. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Um, I want to start right off the bat because I didn't want to get into the whole timeline. Everyone should read the book for sure. Sure. Yeah, you have to read the book. But I feel like everyone knows who you are already. Um, but I do um once I was I was reading the book and I there's so many things that stood out to me. And one of the things I wanted to talk about was Ruth.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And so tell me about the time, tell the listeners about um the that time in your life with her, why that was important, and what you wish you could tell her today.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Well, you know, I I met Ruth when I moved to Ohio in sixth grade, and she became an instant almost mother figure to me. She's uh one of the most incredible people that is currently still in my life. And we communicate, we talk regularly. Yeah, we do. And and you know, it's like um she was there when a time and place that I needed somebody outside of the family. You know, she was always there in classroom. Um, she she created this environment, this culture that was kind of like a safe zone for me. Well, probably for more than just me, probably a lot of kids too, what was in my class. Um, but mostly I felt that every day walking into that class. For 45 minutes, it was a sense of peace for me. And um such an incredible time for the next three years, you know, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade I spent. Um, really enjoying my time in Ruth's class.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Which she taught what?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

It was home at class when you know it's home at class, and I I don't even know if they offer that today, but it was a variety of cooking, sewing, um ironing, you know, things that I use every single day in my life today. So very, you know, very basic things, but ironically, we use them every single day. You don't even think about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So one of the things that you did there wasn't necessarily cooking, one of the main things you started learning was sewing.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, we yeah, absolutely. Sewing, ironing, like I said, um, and I use those every day. Not maybe not every day, but throughout life I've used those, and every time I pick up an iron, I think of uh of Ruth, and every time I pick up, you know, to fix a shirt, maybe uh fix some thread, um, Ruth is right there with me.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Do you still have any of those things that you made back then? The bag, the bag that you said you made.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

No, you know, I did make a skateboard backpack, a large bag to carry a skateboard back then. Um, and she actually purchased the material for me because we couldn't afford the material, which was incredibly special. Uh no, I don't unfortunately don't have any of those things, but I have great memories, so I guess that that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Has she been to your restaurant?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

She has been to Grace, hasn't been to ever yet. Yeah.

unknown 3:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

That's great. I didn't realize that she was still part of your lab.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, she came to the opening night of Grace and uh unfortunately hasn't been able to make it to back to Chicago since uh she lives in Ohio? She lives in Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

She still lives in Ohio. Um okay, changing topics. Charlie Trotters, Trio Linia, those kitchens were known for intensity, as is the type of fine dining that you do. What is one lesson from that era that you still use every day and one lesson you've intentionally left behind?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Well, you know, for me, like those kitchens bring the positive and the negative, right? There's there's every restaurant you work in, you have to choose as a young cook to take what you want to take and leave what you want to leave. And I think that's so important. And even through personal life as well and personal development through mentors or other people that you're surrounded with, right? You're always taking the good from other people as well, as you're leaving the bad, and you're learning the good and bad from other people as well. And I always applied that in the restaurant world where it's you know, with Charlie, he was so in touch with the farmers, and and he drove home that relationship idea is to have and maintain those relationships with those farmers and foragers and you know, the fishmongers, the people that are bringing the food into the back of the restaurant. So that's something I've adopted from him and with Grant at Trio and Alinea, it was always about you know trying to look at food from a different aspect, you know, really just trying to see, you know, if it's a piece of fennel, trying to see something other than just a piece of fennel, and how to how to explore that creative side of of uh you know the dining side of it and you know giving the guest something that's unexpected in a way.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

As always as you successfully do.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Well we try to. I I always feel like it's a it's a responsibility for myself is you know, give the guest um some familiarity, where it has to be something on the plate that's very that you can connect with and it doesn't take you too far away from the food world and you're able to understand where it comes from and what you're eating. So you're not so far out of the box that you actually lose the idea of you know, the guests actually lose the idea of what they're eating. They don't understand it, they can't connect with it, and then all of a sudden it's not so meaningful anymore.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

That's one thing you would leave behind from that era. I I think maybe better.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I think we are I think a lot of chefs have, and it's that culture of you know that angry chef, that chef that's uh relentlessly throwing pots and pans and pushing and and and and getting things accomplished through the more brutal side of the food and wine world. Whereas, you know, I learned very on early on that you can get things accomplished that way, but you can also get things accomplished by communicating properly and doing it in a way that you'd want to be spoken to as well. So I learned that on very on because you know, you you learn from the mentors that you work with and you you slowly adapt that, and all of a sudden maybe you're the guy that's yelling and screaming, not realizing it, but that's because you don't know any different. And the sooner you can catch that and figure that out and start to change the way you you manage and guide your your cooks and and staff, I think the better off you're gonna be. And I learned that on early on because I was catching myself being that guy, and I don't want to be that guy.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

So now with the the new kitchens, you know, a lot of the the high two, three-star Michelin kitchens have the open kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

So it makes it a little harder to throw a pan anyway, and yeah, but you know what's scream and curse. I guess you could do it under your breath.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Because you know, you have Renee Rodzeppi who got cancelled and and he had to leave his restaurant empire. Yeah, I understand that, but at the same time, you have people on TV and we glorify it, and it's okay, right? But when we do it in real life, um all of a sudden it's not it's not okay. You're right. So what are we doing here? You're right. Which one is it? You're right. You know, it's it's not right.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So it's funny when it's on TV, becomes a meme when it's on TV. Of course. But then when you hear about it in real life, it's oh, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

That's a really good point. Um, Grace became one of the most celebrated restaurants in America. What did Grace teach you that ever could not have existed without specific, like one specific thing?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Uh developing the culture, developing the team. I think Grace gave me the opportunity to refine my team, refine and understand how each individual works and understand that you can talk and speak to somebody one way, and they are very receptive to that. And you can talk to and speak to the the person beside them the same way, and you get nothing from them. So understanding that you have to treat each individual completely different. So when you have 60 employees like we do, you're talking 60 different personalities that you have to constantly adapt and change and and understand how you're gonna get the best out of each one of them employees to to to better the restaurant, to better the guest experience is the ultimate goal, right? And to to achieve that is to get each individual chef, each individual Somalier team, the wine team, the the service team to understand that and getting the best out of each one of them is is critical. And it's the way that we we speak to each other, the way we talk to each other, and that I think Grace allowed me to help and refine that to put me in a better position forever.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Now the build out forever took how many years or it was uh a little over a little over a year, year and a half or so.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Um we fell and obviously fell into the pandemic when we were in mid-construction, which put a screeching halt to a lot of things, um, from product to life, just people showing up to work.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Yeah, and how do we navigate through that? So it was pretty challenging.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Um, and I bring that up because that build out to me, it's spectacular.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

So, I mean, it's stunning. I was um briefly talking to you a little while ago about that entrance that I think is so stunning. It's a if you haven't watched it or looked at pictures, or maybe you don't want the spoiler, but um, when I went, the entrance was narrow and winding, and you just didn't know where you were headed to and what was at the end of that little road. But you told me now that it's different. What is different? You changed it.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yeah, now it's completely changed. Before, you know, the idea of the entrance way was to build anticipation of the restaurant, it was also built to kind of give yourself uh give the guest some moment of relaxation, right? To to time time to take a moment and take a pause. I know when I go to restaurants of certain calibers, um, you know, I maybe I'm a little anxious or nervous or excited. And that entranceway is like there's a lot going on. Like you're stepping the into the you know, the the castle, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

That's why I use the Game of Thrones music for my entrance.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

So it's it's uh it's it could be overwhelming for a guest, and we want to take that away from you as quick as possible because we want you to enjoy your experience.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

So But in an exciting way.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

In an exciting way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

The anticipation of where are you headed?

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Where are we going? Why are we?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

It's not just a hallway and a door, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah, now it's like we're gonna take you through this small little journey and give you a bite of food and some okay and a small, maybe a small cocktail, and whether it's a non-alcoholic or a glass of champagne to kind of just take a chill, get you away from the bustling city a little bit and just have a moment before we sit down. Now we've changed a little bit. We've changed the entire direction of the restaurant. So now you enter in and you're immediately offered a non-alcoholic beverage that we change uh daily, and then you're guided through the kitchen. So before the exit of the restaurant was through the kitchen, I would say goodnight to the guest and say goodbye. But now I get to say hello to them.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

And because I had the private room in the back, that's why because I walk through the kitchen at first.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah. Yeah. So we walk, we walk every guest through the kitchen, we give them kind of like a nice sneak peek of what is going on in the kitchen and and how uh how the chefs operate and some of the ins and outs. And you know, the some of the guests that are a little bit more ambitious start to ask a lot of questions, and some are just like, oh God, what's going on? And they want to sit down quickly. Oh so the exit now, which used to be the entrance, is um a candy parlor, if you will. So it's a long hallway, but it's built to it's designed in a way to kind of build anticipation because you don't know where you're going as you exit, because you don't exit the same way. So you enter upon this that same room, which we call the ma room. It's just we turned it an entire candyland.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Willy wonka.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Willy walker candy land. Yeah, there's stuff hanging from the ceiling. There's beautiful vases of you know, 25 different candies in there that you know we offer you a small bag to fill up and take whatever you want to take, as much candy as you want. It's a lot of fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

You have to end the city. It's nostalgic, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

It takes you right back to childhood and everybody sees this. And who's not happy in a candy room? From childhood to adults. Yeah, exactly. All the way to adults are there. Everybody's excited to be in that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah. I'm very excited to ask you my next question because I'm very nervous. No, we kind of talked about it a little while ago. Um, I'm obsessed with um, I've always been obsessed and fascinated, um, maybe because um just the fine-inning nature, the detail that goes into things that most people sometimes don't even notice or overlook. And one of the things I noticed when dining at Ever was a choreographed water pour. Sure. So we're seated, three guests here, and I was on the other side, and I'm talking as I usually do, and I look over and I'm noticing that the team is pouring water, but at the same time, and they all looked at each other and they all filled all glasses to the same level, and they all looked and stopped and picked it up at the same time and then walked away. And nobody around me noticed it. And then I stood there and I said, Did you guys see that? The water, the water pour was choreographed, and everyone thought I was crazy, but you confirmed that it was a thing or is a thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

It is a thing, but I also it is a thing, but I also say great service is service that's unseen. You know, you things arrive without even noticing. That did happen throughout the day. Those are great moments too. But specifically, the water pour is to kind of set the tone of the night. Like this is who we are, this is a statement, you know, this is what the service team is about, and this is what what is to expect throughout the rest of the night.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

But then my other question, because you know, inquiring minds and I'm a curious person, how many times is that rehearsed? Because you don't just do that. I mean, you have to rehearse that. Well, we we I mean, you don't just do it at the same level.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

It is. I mean, it's it's they do this. Imagine they do this five nights a week. Yeah, you know, anywhere from 20 to 25 tables a night. And you know, it's it's constant. It's it's it's the constant idea of uh we're always training, we're always trying to be better. And the front staff is always like two o'clock, they're in there training, they're in there, you know, mocking service as if service was going through. You know, Jack Nicholas once said his best rounds of golf were played before he stepped onto the course. And and I feel like sometimes that approach is necessary because you get in that mindset at two o'clock in the afternoon. What's that gonna be like at 5 p.m. when we open the doors? You're gonna be ready to play, and that's what it should be about.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Right, it shouldn't feel like you're just stepping on the field at that moment. Absolutely not. It's not a light switch, it's just and we we did wonder a lot of times if there was a camera on us or if there was an audio recording, because there's all of that. There's no yes, there is my friend. You know, one of the things that happened, you know, the typical she's cold. And remember, we were in the PDR, so the door just magically opens and someone comes in with a Pashmina. And I'm thinking, no way, no way. How did they know she was cold?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's something we've always said to the staff is eyes open, ears open.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Microphones and cameras.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Listen, listen and watch, just pay attention to the guest. Yeah, they can give off so many signs that we can read, that we can anticipate their guest needs, and then it just it's like, how the hell did they know that? Just like you just said, how did they know I was cold? And they brought me a Pajmina.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, it wasn't me.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I'm always hot, but but Oh, you're from Miami, so you're from Miami, always hot.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Um, yes, so I imagine the little secret like hand signals behind to like No, not none of that. None of that, no.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I mean, just to maybe one of these moments that and that's really means just I need help.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

I need help, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Other than that, we're not doing uh, you know, we're not throwing gang signs behind us. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Some restaurants do that. And then I know I know a restaurant person that does this means um I need to talk to you, like get over here.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, for us, it means if somebody's standing beside a table and they're like they're like this, they're trying to get someone else to look at them and go, hey, this table needs cleared. This we need help on this table.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, I I'm fascinated by that part of of service. Um, so what are your next goals forever?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Well, you know, I've always set daily goals and and every single day it's about being better within those four walls. And and I don't pay too much attention with what is going on outside of those four walls in terms of the restaurant world. I I think we focus a hundred percent on just trying to be better every single day. And and, you know, obviously we want to eventually maintain and get get to our third star, as I believe ever will get there at some point. It's just a matter of time. And it's you know, for us, it's just about refining every single day and just trying to really hone in on everything that we know and everything we can do to be better. Um and eventually we'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Let's talk about the bear.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

And let's talk about the bear and the bear.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Who uh um who was the bear in your life?

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Bear was my father, and uh relentlessly so he was he was just that the bear. He was a bear. And uh obviously the TV show The Bear.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

And how did that um talk to the listeners about how that came to be and your impact in that and the filming, just the whole journey.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, um, someone uh I don't know who it was, said, Hey, I saw Grace was on the bear. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I had no idea. Um, they had filmed, I don't know what's what episode it was, but it was season one episode, maybe one or two. But they were filming that scene in the old the old Grace Kitchen where uh Joel MacGyver is in the in Jeremy's white's ear, just telling him how terrible of a chef he was. And yeah, so all of that, I'm like, oh, that is Grace. I had no idea they're filming there. So they were looking for season two, they're looking for a beautiful aesthetic kitchen as Grace was as well. Um, not sure how they came across ever or how the contact came about, but they reached out to the restaurant and said, Hey, we'd love to come in and film. So they showed up, maybe you know, eight to twelve people with them to kind of scout the restaurant, and we walked them around, walked them through the dining room, um, every every aspect of the restaurant. And Courtney Storer, one of the producers, she's like, Chef, I want exactly this. And we were standing in the kitchen at the time, and I said, Courtney, I said, You realize we're getting ready for a Saturday night service. We have 80 people tonight, and you want you want this? She's like, Like now, I want exactly this. Can we do this? I said, We can certainly do that. So they hired all the cooks to fill in as the actors. Um, they wanted to use the food that we were currently producing on the menu. So it made my job pretty easy, and it made me, you know, made all my cooks easy because they already knew what they were doing. They didn't really have to act as if it was just a matter of, all right, start prepping.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

But you also said that that was one of the things you wanted control over how the food was um showing on the show.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

It was important for the episode that I was that we were going to be featured in that I wanted to make sure that the food was, you know, for me, I'm very particular the way it I wanted to look aesthetically and on film. So I wanted to have a heavy hand in in producing that. And you know, they brought me on to consult for that few episodes that we were in, and you know, we produced all the food that we are currently serving in the restaurant. So it was a great experience. And the team is phenomenal. So they filmed that night and then no, we closed the restaurant for two weeks. So they didn't film that night. They or no, not that night. They came back. That was just kind of like a oh, okay, okay, okay. This they wanted to see if it was gonna work. Of course, it worked. I had to go back and watch the whole entire first season before I signed the contract because I didn't know what I was getting into. As I'm like, I haven't watched the bear, unfortunately. It's like I live that every day. Why do I want to watch it? Yeah, yeah. So I went back and watched the whole season, fell in love with the show, and I said, absolutely love to be a part of it. And here we are.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

And you were able to watch it because a lot of my um um chef friends said they get PTSD watching it, that they they they can't even get through a whole season because it's like they're real life on camera again.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

So yeah, that's a little dramatic, but you know, right. It's over drama, of course. It's TV, but it's TV, so I know. But there is some drama in there, but I mean, I don't know. You can relate to it.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

I don't think it's gonna how much of the realness do you think? Um, well, obviously, I know it gets very intense, and how much of it do you think was very Hollywood?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

I would say nine, I'd say ninety percent of it is real, and another ten percent Hollywood. You know, there was those moments of Hollywood where everything is a little dramatized out more, but I've always said like the bear has done an incredible job to really showcase our industry. And and I also I'd say like they did an incredible job of showcasing the city of Chicago. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of videos, not a lot of videos, but there's a lot of movies and TV shows that have shot here in the city that you can't really tell that it's in Chicago. The bear completely made you proud to live in the city because we were so proud of one being part of the bear, but then also being part of this great city and and seeing you know the skyline and all these moments where you're sights and sounds. You're like, you know exactly where all of those places are. If you live in the city, you're like, I know exactly I've been there a hundred times.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

That's cool. Yeah, I do get that feeling too. Fine dining has always fascinated filmmakers, obviously, and television writers. Why do you think people are so drawn to stories about chefs in Michelin-starred restaurants?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

That's a great question. I don't know. I'm not sure why. I mean, I I try to think back to when the food network first came on the scene. It was more like and this was obviously after you know James Beard had the cookbook series and you know, all the Julia Child and Yin can cook and all of those great chefs as well. But when the Food Network kind of hit it mainstream, I think people started to become more aware of where the food was coming from and became more interested in food. And um, and I think that's when that shift changed from a chef of like my caliber, just the daily grind, to then all of a sudden you're now this this iconic celebrity, if you will, which seems weird to me as a chef. Like we're not saving lives, we're not doing anything other than transforming some beautiful product into maybe something a little bit greater than what it started with. But other than that, I mean, I don't know the fascination.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

I guess also, yeah, it has to have been when like Bravo, Food Network, all those things just really lifted it.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Um, but also, I mean, I think for for Michelin, um, specifically, like I said, I'm obsessed with like the details and just the logistics behind it. Um, yeah, I don't know how people go to a restaurant of that caliber and just eat and walk out and not wonder how did from point A to like Z, like how did this come to be? You know, I always want to know, like, but that's maybe that's just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I mean, I think a lot of people walk out of there with their own opinions. Certainly they're not shy of them.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

But they don't notice, like, it drives me crazy. Like, did you notice that they just folded your napkin and oh yeah, oh yeah, that's nice.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Or brought you a brand new one every single time.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

As it should be, not touching it, it should be, you know, I don't know when they touch it, but right. Little things. Okay, let's switch to fireproof. Um, how did writing fireproof come to be?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Well, uh, my dear friend Jeremy Wagner and I, he's he's an incredible writer and he he writes a lot of horror novelties. And and I thought, you know, part of my story is somewhat horrid. And what a great opportunity for have Jeremy write something of that without it being sugarcoated. And and you know, we wanted to we wanted to write a book that was a hundred percent honest, and it went into great detail beyond what some people saw in Four Grace, the documentary. Um, because that was just a small glimpse of my life, and then of course I wanted to write this book because I wanted to tell my story, but also it wasn't a hundred percent focused on my parents' death, that's just a small chapter. But you know, I wanted to, you know, talk about you know, the dedication to a craft and and being fully committed to something in your life to to try to be great at something and and tell the story that you can come from a shitty past and you can come from terrible things happen in your life, but it's the way you choose to navigate those instances in your life to to shift them into the positive. You know, everybody can sit back and be a victim, everybody could sit back and say, Whoa, me, and this and that, but you have that opportunity to also channel that into something positive and something and great and do something great with your life, you know. That shouldn't that should be just a speed bump in your life uh as it unfolds, right? It's it shouldn't stop you in it in your tracks, and that's where you that's where you stop.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

One of my favorite um parts of the book is when you say um when you're just walking away and you you were like hell bent, like I am breaking the cycle. I am I am not gonna repeat the same cycle of your your past and your family. Um can you briefly describe what it was um the traumatic past for those who don't know?

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Well, I I think for me it's it's the abuse, it's verbal abuse and physical abuse. And you know, it it's like I said earlier, it is you you do what you learned, you do what you're taught. And at a young age, when that's all you know, what do you think's gonna happen when you get older and you have children? Like that's how my parents did it, so that's the way I'm gonna do it. And I I when I had children, I thought like I couldn't possibly think of laying a hand on any one of my children. I couldn't even fathom that. Sitting here thinking about that now gets me choked up. Like, I couldn't possibly do that, and I don't know how my parents or many parents could do that to their children. These are these are the the people that you love, and it's like it's beyond it's beyond my thought process. So I'm like, absolutely not, I'm not gonna continue this cycle. Because I've watched people very close to me do the same thing and continue that cycle, and it's I don't understand how they don't break it, how they can't break it.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, I'm very proud of you for that because you know it's not easy. Um, and once you read the book, you'll realize this is more than just a a Cuban grandma chancleta, okay? This is not what we're talking about. The chancletas in Cuban households still fly. I know you know about that.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

They'll hit you anywhere you're standing. I know about it. Trust me, my wife would my wife's Cuban. I know.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

So she's that's why I know you were gonna get away.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

You would throw a chancleta at you and hit you come across the book.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

So the chancleta is, you know, kind of exempt, I think. You know, we kind of know about the chunklet. But no, we're talking about very, very serious um um situations in your life. Yeah. Um, what did you learn about yourself while you were writing the book that maybe surprised you and you weren't expecting, you know, because you're thinking you think probably thinking, I'm just gonna save my life and talk about it and and we're done. But then maybe things that maybe made you pause and say, wait.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

I mean, I I learned an incredible amount. I learned a lot about myself. I learned about how many stories I've had buried underneath the rug, and how how that you you bury them and you ironically completely forget about them. Like it wouldn't even I have to check myself to say, did that really happen? And yeah, it's compartmentalize, maybe. Yeah, I had to Yeah, you had to come, yeah, because there was many moments. Ironically, I tell the story like a lot of these stories would come about when I would be on a flight, a long flight. Either could be to Miami, it could be somewhere where I'm traveling, but a lot of these moments would be in flight when when a story would pop into my head as to and I don't know what triggers it. I don't know if it's the altitude, I have no idea, but it's well maybe pausing because you live a very hectic life.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

So that's a moment where you're actually pausing. They say a lot of our best thoughts come or ideas come when you're showering and things like that. So driving. Why? Because we're stopping.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

We're stopping to do something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Maybe that's why.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

So I I felt that you know a lot of those stories came out, and though I found myself a lot of times calling Jeremy as soon as I landed, the first person I would call would be Jeremy and say, Hey, this incredible story that came about. Do you want to talk about it now? Do you want to talk about it later? And he would stop whatever he was doing and and turn on the recorder and just start taking notes, and I would walk him through with what I remembered experiencing in those moments. And then a lot of those stories I shared with my wife, and she kind of guided me in a way that she said, you know, maybe you should leave that one out, maybe you should put that one in. And some of them made made it in that, you know, she said, don't put it in there. But some of them made them in, anyways, because I felt it was important as part of my my story, you know. It was very important that I I think she was the first person that said, you know, it's getting too much that it looks like it may be villainizing your father. And and I certainly I didn't want that at all. I didn't want the book to to make my father into this monster of of a of a human because he had so many incredibly great aspects of his life and great traits of who he is as a human, too. Um, but he was fighting demons his whole life as well, as we all do. And she was like I that's how I I took that very serious from her, and I I told Jeremy, I said, please let's shape this book in a way that it doesn't villainize my father because you know he is an incredible man as as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

So I think you were successful at that. I think you also shared a lot of um touching stories, and then obviously, right? I won't say it's a way you have to read the book, but right down to the last letter.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yeah, right? Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

So right down to that.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I mean it's those are the things that your feelings about it. So I thought that was very touching, a touching way to kind of end that part of that story.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

I wish I would have had those, you know, said to me instead of written down. But I'll uh at this point I'll take what I can get. I know, you know, I'll take uh a handwritten note, you know, it's still it's still somebody taking that time to put down their thoughts on paper. So it's not like it's just meaningless and it's in a piece of paper, but boy, would it have been great to grow up listening to some of those.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

And also the note in his wallet. Yeah. That was a I like that one. Very special. See, so those kind of parts I think you did a good job with that. With yeah, you know, you were saying the truth as raw as you said you were you were. You were very honest, and then you you put in a lot of those moments that yeah, I thought were were very touching. Um, so you've shared um the most difficult chapters in your life publicly. Has vulnerability become easier with age?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Yes, I think you get to a point, you get to a certain age where you just don't give a shit anymore. You just don't, you know, it's like we we spend a lot of our lives as young kids and and young adults to filter, and we're so worried about what other people think, and we're worried about how we're portrayed in the world. And at the end of the day, we're all going to the same place, we're all gonna die. And you know, what's left? What is your legacy? And for me, like I I think just having that brutal honesty out there and not hiding behind it. I was very ashamed of that story for a very, very long time. And and it there was so many people in my life that I had told my parents just oh, they live in Ohio, and nobody really knew. There was a lot of people that didn't know that were close to me. I was ashamed of that story because I had and I don't know why I was ashamed of it, because it was my story, but I didn't create that story. Right. You know, it was um my father created that story, but I hid in those shadows for a very long time, and I got tired of hiding like that. I got tired of standing in the shadows of you know that story. And I'm like, you know what? Enough is enough. I need to I need to live, I need to be able to live my life. And I and I part of the also the part of the reason why I wrote fireproof was because I wanted a place to put it down on paper, and I felt like that was a way to kind of put it to rest and just put it on the shelf. It's there if I want to pick it up, it's there if my daughters or family or anybody wants to read it. There's great inspiration in there as well. It's not just a tragic story, but it's how do you come from shit to to build an incredible empire? So there's all that in between as well, and you know, it's um it is what it is, I guess. What do you hope your legacy um that I was an incredible father, incredible husband, and ultimately an incredible restaurant tour chef, and that I was fair, but a very demanding and driven individual, somebody who you know is relentless in what they do and and a man of their words. If I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it. And for me, that's that's so important, and loyalty as well. You know, I want to be known for that.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

I think you're on your way.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

I'm working on it every day.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Let's change. We are a little happier here.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Tell me about Velvet 86 and how do you even find the time? What is that?

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Everything in life you gotta find time that you feel was important.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

These are like the fun questions.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah. Velvet 86 came about. Uh I you know, I was in my twenties, I started drumming, and I quickly realized my neighbors fucking hate me. Because I would play the drums and it's goddamn loud and nobody likes the drums.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

But not at 2 a.m., right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Well, I mean, probably that's part of it too. But you know, even at even at noon, it's just enough is enough, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

For me, like Sundays were my days off, so that was my and everybody else's days off too. Right. Nobody wants to with drum sounds, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I quickly gave that up, but I've always been in love with the bass, always, and never had one, but was always in tune with hearing the bass. I my music genre was heavily in that world of a heavy bass lift or a heavy bass line in every in every song. That's kind of where I went towards. So I got to a point where I kept I was talking with Jeremy. Jeremy happens to have a few bands and is very successful in his own his own world of uh heavy metal and death metal. And he's a guitarist, and we're just always talking about music back and forth. And he surprised me one day with a bass. So he went out and bought a bass for me. And he's like, Here, now it's up to you to to learn how to play it.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Stop talking about it. Stop talking about it. Be about it, be about it.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

And I'm like, God, yes. Finally. So I said, you know what? It sat there for a little bit, and then I decided, you know what, I'm gonna I'm gonna start taking lessons. So I I found a gentleman, um, took a couple lessons, it didn't work out, the vibe wasn't there. So I reached back out to Jeremy and said, Hey, I do you have anybody that you know? And he said, Let me ask my guitarist. He'll he'll know somebody. So he reached out to his guitarist named Matt. And Matt's like, hey, I teach at a school, and I have a good friend Tom. He teaches bass, that's all he does, teach bass, and he's in a million bands too. So he put us in contact, and the connection was immediate. Like I immediately knew as soon as I took a lesson from this guy that he was going to be my teacher, my mentor for as long as I needed it to be. And so that was that was two years ago. And we we went on and we've been you know, taking lessons. I've been taking lessons from him. Um, sometimes it was on pretty consistent on a weekly basis, and then as travel came about, uh it's certainly slowed down and then picked it back up. And so he's we got to a point he's like, Man, you need to we need to get you to play and and we need to get you a recital, if you will. We need to get you on stage and play. So I'm like, let's that's exciting. Let's do it. Yeah. Uh so we went to this place called the Drunken Donut, it's out in Joliet, and it's kind of like everybody gets their first round. It's like an open mic on Wednesday nights. So we went there and we played.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Well, you already had, so you had a singer, you had because it's four of you, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah, so his wife, uh Becky, uh plays harmonic, harmonica and and sings, and she's she has an incredible voice. And he reached out to one of his friends named Armando for drums. And Armando's like, uh, I don't know, maybe let's see, send me the set list and I'll see if I can do it. He did it. The four of us gelled very quickly, of course, and um we decided, hey, that was kind of fun. Do we want to continue this? And then we all agreed, let's continue it, and then we just started, just started playing gigs.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

We just started playing shows, and then so you do like it monthly now, or because I don't even know how you find the time.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah, we do monthly. We we do rehearsal, you know, and and practice probably two to three times a month. We get together, maybe sometimes more, and then we have a at after we do live music on Wednesday nights. So Velvet 86 does every Wednesday, the first Wednesday of every month, uh, seven to nine on Wednesday nights.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

That's cool. And it's something for you to look forward to.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah, and it gives, you know, for me, like it's that's another outlet for me. Like a lot of people speak about burnout, and I'm I just get burned out at cooking, I can't do this. I think the balance for me is like being able to find stuff that I love to do outside of the cooking world, you know, whether it's playing the bass or riding motorcycles or riding dirt bikes in the mountains, and um, you know, we're training right now, we're training for a half iron man, and you know, it's those moments that keeps me from being burnt out in the restaurant. For sure. I think I've always always had that mentality. It's like, you know, it was martial arts for a long time, and then it was bass guitar. So it's trying to find things that keep you young and interested in in things other than just cooking. I know. You won't be able to do it. If you just did one thing for the rest of your life, yeah. Of course you're gonna eat burnout.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Uh okay. Most controversial food opinion.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Opinion or trend.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Well, my next question is what food trend do you hope never comes back?

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Oh, but that's an even better one.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Okay. Now you got two.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Uh restaurants that serve tarts. Little tartlets.

unknown 41:10

Oh, I like tartlets.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Every restaurant is true. Here, let's open the opening menu has 15 fucking tarts on it. Tartlets on it. It drives me crazy. It's just I don't know. I'm I'm just so sick of seeing it. We never we never jumped onto that bandwagon, but every restaurant in the damn world serves you a little tart.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

But I do get excited when I see a little tart. I don't know what it is about it. Maybe because they're cute and little and you know that you could kind of anticipate, maybe not what's in it, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yeah, you understand what it is. You understand what it is. That's why they're so friendly, but I get it. I'd love to see it disappear.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

All right. No controversial food opinion.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Not that I could think of. Maybe I'll give it some thought as we continue.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Other than your dislike for the black cod sperm, which I agree.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Um, I d I don't say that I hate it. It's just not something that I would order. You know, I guess octopus would be one of them.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

I won't I won't I won't do octopus anymore. Um they're too intelligent.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

I everyone keeps telling me that, and then I don't want to watch that, whatever that documentary is.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Because then I feel like I'm not gonna eat octopus anymore.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Well, that's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Oh God. Um, okay, what is the best meal you've had um recently that you didn't cook?

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Oh man. It's it's probably it's been a couple years. Oh, it's been maybe last year. I ate a great meal of vespertine in LA. Oh, I haven't been with Jordan Kahn's Jordan Kahn's restaurant. Um incredible meal there, very thought-provoking, very forward-thinking, avant-garde, everything expected from from Jordan. And um, yeah, it was it was a it was a great, great meal. Great meal.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Any guilty food pleasures?

SPEAKER_01 43:02

I love candy. That's why we got that damn candy room. The problem.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Do you ever do you go? Where's the chef?

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Check the candy room.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Oh, to your to your point. I was just gonna say, do you ever go to Oh, I do.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

I sneak up there, and there I always tell the staff, don't get caught sneaking in there. Um, but where is he by the gummy bears? I'm the first one in there. Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

But I've always said I needed to, I need to, for example, I love Cuban bakery, so I love patelitos and all that.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Oh, I love patelitos. Ready? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Which what is your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Oh, God. Uh probably guava and green cheese.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

And cheese. Same. So I always say, I love it so much because I feel like I could eat an endless amount of it. I just need to work at a bakery for like a year. And then Chuck could get sick of it. But my I have friends, um, my friend Amy who owns Vicky Bakery, and she says, News flash, this is my life, and I'm still not sick of it. I'm like, she's like, think of it. She says, though, we grew up with this. So just like we don't get tired of like black beans and rice and pollutos and stuff like that, she's like, We're not gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

My wife gets sometimes, and she knows I love it, it's a it's we call it a milfui, but it's the puff pastry. Oh, la senorita. That's it. She always gets me one of those.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

That is a favorite too. I know those are good. Do you like the the the um chocolate or the vanilla? I like the vanilla.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

I know it's pretty basic, but I like it over the chocolate. So good.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yeah, for sure. Okay, that could be something. Some candy. Um, most expensive ingredient that you personally don't get excited about.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Uh I would say foie gras.

unknown 44:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Foie gras. Um yeah, probably I don't I don't serve it anymore. I I think I've got I serve so much of it back in the day with with other restaurants that you just get sick of it. You're just like, alright, I don't need to see foie gras every day.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Because you're going to expect uni and you're gonna expect foie gras and you're gonna expect cavier. It's true.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Yeah, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

What does a perfect day look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Perfect day. Um I think spending the day with my wife being able to just relax and have an amazing cup of coffee in the morning and just um hang out, maybe watch some TV. Things that I get to do, never get to do, are the things that I think make the perfect day. You know, it's just chilling and relaxing with the wife, and then you know, ultimately the family at nighttime, making them dinner, um or maybe even having them make me dinner. My wife is uh she doesn't say that she's a good cook, but she is a really good cook. And um it's it's nice to to have somebody cook for you, and it could be the very simplest things. It could be a grilled cheese, it could be, you know, um a roasted chicken. Just as long as it, you know, it's the the idea of somebody giving it and took the time to make it for you.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

With love, yeah. It tastes different when it's it tastes different. Yeah, it tastes different. Let's talk great segue to my Florida section, the last section in the interview. Um, tell me about your wife, um, your Cuban wife from Miami and um and your unorthodox like uh uh um approach to to your life because you're based out of Chicago and she's based out of Florida.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

And how that works.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Yeah, we do split our time between Chicago and Miami. Um so we do quite a bit of traveling, you know, we're back and forth. She's she's majority back and forth. Um, you know, she's a she's blessed enough to work remotely so she can come to Chicago and work remotely and and still get what she needs to get done and accomplished. And I can do the same thing on the days that I'm off. I can get down to Miami, spend a few days down there, enjoy the weather, kind of disconnect, recharge. That's kind of like my place to to just recharge the batteries, you know, some especially in the wintertime when it's you know 30 degrees here and it's gloomy, it's it's beautifully 75 and sunny in Miami, so it's it's it's a great great place to be. And you know, my wife always says I'm the happiest when I'm down there. And I think only because well, there's many reasons. One because she's there, but two, it's like I'm kinda it is a disconnect um from the restaurant. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Um any favorite Miami restaurants?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

You know, we don't go out a lot. We do have this little Cuban place down the street from us called Little Havana, and we order from there quite a bit, and we do a lot of the cooking at home. I do a lot of the cooking at home. It's easy for us. I'm I'm blanking on the name of the new place that we go to. She loves it. She loves it. It's in the four seasons in in uh Fort Lauderdale? No, not Fort Lauderdale. It's in The Surf Club? Surf club.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Or Leto. The Surf Club or Lido.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Leto, yeah. That's it. That's one of her favorite places.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

And the bar, the champagne bar, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

That room. Tell me that room's not stunning.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

It's it's it's so iconic, Miami, right? It's so like old school. So yeah, it's like I love that. It's fashion forward, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

There's just something I just love walking in and yeah, I do. I'm a big fan of um the champagne bar and surf club, the other side. Yeah, it's amazing. Oh, yeah, so but Lido's great too.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Lido's great because it's you know, it's it's every time we've been there and we've been there a lot, yeah, it's very consistent and friendly and fast, and they they welcome us. Thomas has done it incredibly well. Thomas Keller has done that incredibly well.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

He's definitely an icon.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Um, what um when people think of great American dining cities, um Chicago always enters a conversation. Can Florida get there?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Florida can certainly get there eventually, yeah. I mean, it it will take some time, but nothing's off nothing's off the table. I mean, it's there's a lot of great restaurants in Miami. It's yeah, I mean there has to be it has to, yeah, it'll get there. I mean, the money is there, the the finances are there to to obtain all of that and and continue to build great restaurants. It's it's gonna be up to the restaurateurs to take risks and build great restaurants. And it's also gonna take a community to support them.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because, you know, it's it's we always say this a lot is you know, what makes Chicago such a great food city is the ability that, you know, we have international travelers from all over the world, but just the local alone always support the restaurants. They they go out and dine, they're they're out and eating, same as New York, they're out and eating in the restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

That's one of our biggest problems, is that we have we have the international clientele, the diners, but then the locals are going to the shiny import restaurants and they're not supporting the local scene right for a month until the next new one opens. And then that's no one is going back, even our Michelin-starred restaurants. Like, hello, like the ones that are the smaller. Well, we only really have like smaller concepts, you know. So you have like Star Wars and Ariette, and those are our restaurants, or Miami Michelin starred restaurants. You have to go support the smaller ones, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

You do, you know, you have to, and before you could and you nailed it right, it's like that is the downfall of Miami. It's like you're hot for a moment and then you're not, and then when you're not, it's like and it's very easy to not because everyone's it is because everybody else is looking for the new shiny one over here.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

And everything's shiny all the time. Yeah, yeah. It's every restaurant is a billion dollar, you know, um operation, and it's it's bizarre. And then they close six months later.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

It's yeah, it's it's a shame. It really is a shame.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

But you're right, locals, and not only them at Shone Star restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Gotta get out and support them.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Gotta get out and support them all. Like your favorites, like everyone always says, like, oh, they closed. Well, when did you go?

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Yeah, when was the last time you went? Exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

You're so sad, but you didn't go.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Exactly.

unknown 50:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

There we go. Um, okay. What do you want my listeners to know that I didn't cover? If anything. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

No, I don't I mean, I'm good. I think you did an amazing job. Yeah, I don't think I don't think there's anything else that I need to to talk about, really. Unless there's more for you.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

No, I think we're good. I just I want listeners to obviously pick up your book and learn everything about you if they don't already, and this is hopefully a supplement to that, and then introduce you to my Florida audience who maybe is not as familiar. I'd love to, but I do love your Miami connection. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today and come in so early. Uh I know you probably were probably off yesterday, right? No, no, you were not.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

We were not. We are.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Oh, you work on Mondays? You have you open Mondays?

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Well, we had the Team's Bears party last night and after.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

I know nothing about that party.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

No, it's working during the day, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Got it. Um, okay, that's it for this special edition episode. Please take a second and share your favorite episode with your friends. Always keep those wine glasses full and your reservations booked. Okay. Um, from my palette to yours. Cheers. Bye. Thank you. Of course, thank you so much.