How a Maternal Health Blueprint Plans to Help Black Mothers Survive and Thrive

In this episode of The Paid Leave Podcast, we speak with the two women who helped to craft the Maternal Health Equity: A Blueprint for Connecticut. We speak with Tiffany Donelson, the President and CEO of the Connecticut Health Foundation, and with Dr. Marcella Nunez-Smith, the Associate Dean for Health Equity Research and the Director of Equity Research and Innovation Center at Yale. (ERIC)

April it is National Minority Health Month, it’s also Black Maternal Health Week is April 11th-17th, and it is National Public Health Week from April 6th-12th. Black women in Connecticut are much more likely to experience severe maternal morbidity, and the state ranks 35th in the nation. Tiffany and Marcella discuss how they created the Maternal Health Equity Blueprint. Tiffany expresses pride in the blueprint's comprehensive approach and the inclusion of diverse voices. Marcella emphasizes the importance of awareness and engagement in addressing maternal health disparities. They both discuss that black women in Connecticut are twice as likely to experience severe maternal morbidity compared to white women. The blueprint aims to address these disparities through policy changes, community engagement, and leveraging existing resources like Connecticut's Paid Leave program. They emphasize the importance of economic security and job protection for maternal health outcomes.

To read about the Maternal Health Equity: A Blueprint for Connecticut, go to CT Health releases blueprint for maternal health equity in Connecticut | CT Health Foundation

For more information about CEO Tiffany Donelson at the CT Health Foundation please go to Connecticut Health Foundation (CT Health) | Changing Health Systems (cthealth.org)

For information about the Equity and Innovation Center (ERIC) please go to Equity Research and Innovation Center (ERIC) | Equity Research and Innovation Center (ERIC)

For more information about Dr, Marcella Nunez-Smith please go to Marcella Nunez-Smith, MD, MHS | Yale School of Medicine

For more information or to apply for benefits please go to www.ctpaidleave.org

https://ctpaidleave.org/s/?language=en_US



https://www.facebook.com/CTPaidLeave



https://www.instagram.com/ctpaidleave/



https://twitter.com/CTPaidLeave



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ct+paid+leave

Transcript

Nancy Barrow: 0:01

Hello Connecticut, and welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. The title basically says it all. I'm Nancy Barrow, and I will be delving into this new state program and how it can help you and your family. This podcast will give you information you should know about Connecticut Paid Leave and maybe just a little bit more. Connecticut Paid Leave brings peace of mind to your home, family and workplace. Welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast. In April, it is National Minority Health Month. It's also Black Maternal Health Week April 11 through the 17th, and it is National Public Health Week from April 6 through the 12th. Black women in Connecticut are twice as likely as their white counterparts to experience severe maternal morbidity, and the state ranks 35th in the nation. Joining me to talk about health care inequities and disparities for black women are the women who led the team that created the Connecticut's Black Health Equity blueprint. Tiffany Donaldson is President and CEO of the Connecticut Health Foundation, overseeing the Independent Health Philanthropies work in grant making, policy advancement, strategic communications and leadership development. She brings to the role a deep knowledge of health care systems and policy extensive experience in grant making and a commitment to equity. Tiffany previously served as the foundation's vice president of program. Tiffany held several leadership roles at Aetna, and she sits on several boards, including the grant makers in health and the Connecticut project, the state's health care benchmark initiative steering committee, the Commission on racial equity in public health and the health care cabinet. She's a graduate of Georgetown University, and received her MPH in Health Policy and Management at Emory University's Rollins School of Public Health. And also joining us is Dr Marcella Nunez Smith. She is Associate Dean for Health Equity Research cnh long, Professor of Medicine, Public Health and Management and Director of the Equity Research and Innovation Center (ERIC) at Yale. Her research focuses on health and health care equity for marginalized populations, with an emphasis on the social and structural drivers of health the influence of health care systems on health disparities and the advancement of community academic partnered scholarship. Dr Nunez Smith served as Senior Advisor to the White House covid 19 response and chair of the Presidential covid 19 health equity Task Force, an elected member of the National Academy of Medicine. She attended Jefferson Medical College residency at Harvard's Brigham and Women's Hospital and fellowship at the Yale Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Clinical Scholars Program. Well, you're both such accomplished women and such inspirations to other women, especially me. I'm so thankful to have you here. Welcome to The Paid Leave Podcast!

Tiffany Donelson: 3:03

Thank you for having us.

Marcella Nunez: 3:05

So excited to be here.

Nancy Barrow: 3:06

What does the Connecticut Health Foundation do?

Tiffany Donelson: 3:10

Well, again, thank you so much for having us. We're so excited to get an opportunity to talk about the Maternal Health Equity Blueprint, and it's important to our organization, because we are the state's largest health foundation, meaning we focus explicitly on health and more importantly, we are focused on health equity for people of color across the state of Connecticut. And we're doing so because the data shows us that that's where the gaps are. You know, Connecticut is often deemed one of the top five healthiest states in the country, but when you look at the data, we are often in the bottom quartile as it relates to health inequities and health disparities, and when I say bottom quartile, we're often 30 and below as it relates to disparities. And so the data shows us that the gap really still resides with people of color, and what we are hoping for is to get our state to a place where everyone is living their best life and in the top five related to health. We do so by really looking at health policy, and that could be administrative policy, legislative policy. We're really trying to figure out, how do we change the rules so that people can have again, the ability to live their healthiest lives in our state.

Nancy Barrow: 4:35

Dr Nunez Smith, what do you do as director of the Equity Research and Innovation Center (ERIC) at Yale?

Marcella Nunez: 4:40

Yes, ERIC, as we say, colloquially, like colloquially, you know, before I talk about ERIC, maybe I'll take a minute just to piggyback on what Tiffany said, you know, for where we're situated, in in the in the country, right? And these statistics and how important they are, and, quite frankly, how lucky we are in Connecticut to have Connecticut Health Foundation, and she didn't know I was going to say this, but we are really, really fortunate, you know, to have not just an organization that is thinking about policy and disparities, but doing the action work. You know, I always say health equity, that's it's a verb, right? And so it's about what we do. And so we're really fortunate. So I just want to take a moment to say thank you to Tiffany and the team for the extraordinary leadership you know, in our state and setting a national model for really how, how different sectors can work together to advance policy that's going to make a difference. I mean, the statistics that you share are just real, right and staggering, right? Yeah, and for a lot of folks, you know, I teach medical students here, and the medical students are always shocked to hear these statistics. You know, where we are in Connecticut, where we are as a country. You know, this question around maternal health, we're not doing great compared to our pure nations. So even when we talk about where Connecticut sits in the country, let's talk about where the country sits in the world. And we've got a lot of work to do.

Nancy Barrow: 6:11

We always say that even about, you know, paid leave, like we don't have a national paid leave policy, we're the only industrialized nation that doesn't. It's like Tonga, Palau, Micronesia.

Marcella Nunez: 6:21

Micronesia, I'm telling you. And you know, you'll get these kind of surprise comparisons when you look at the maternal health question too. There are a lot of places that just really, quite frankly, aren't as resourced and have better outcomes in maternal health. So, you know. So here at anchor, I always talk to the team and say, We want to work ourselves out of a job here, because it's everything we do is in service of closing those disparities that you talked about, that Tiffany lifted up, and we leverage the tools of research and partnership to do that, and really to guide, inform conversations about policy right and practice and processes where there's room for improvement. So this just, we were just beyond thrilled and quite frankly, honored to take part, you know, for me personally, to lead with Tiffany, this process around developing the blueprint. It's just really core to the mission here at ERIC.

Nancy Barrow: 7:19

It's really interesting. So how did you guys start working with each other? What made you decide that you had to act and create the Connecticut Black Health Equity blueprint? It's a big question, but I mean.

Tiffany Donelson: 7:32

Well, I will say personally, Marcel and I met each other. I think she was one of my last in person meetings before covid, it was we had been in the state together, had never had the opportunity, and we were like, we're gonna just meet for 45 minutes in Panera. And two hours later, we were running to meetings that we were late for. And so it was then that I recognized how critical Marcella has been in the state and nationally. And so when you say working together, I knew we had to find a way to work together more formally, even though we had done similar work throughout the past. And the reason why taking a couple of steps back, the Foundation decided to even look at maternal health equity, because, again, we're focused on health equity for people of color in the state, you would think that it was already a part of our strategic plan, but when we were redoing our strategic plan in 2024 we started with a lot of interviews for with people across the state. And when I say a lot of interviews, we talk to a variety of individuals, those who are policy makers, those who are commissioners and leaders. We talk to community members directly. And what kept uprising was maternal health equity folks kept saying this is an area that we really need to focus on as the state, because perhaps if we can tackle this disparity, it would teach us and we'll learn how to potentially address other disparities across the state of Connecticut, and there's great work happening in the state, so I appreciate you uplifting our blueprint, and at the same time, I have to say thank you to everyone listening who's doing amazing work across the state. Around this work, we knew good work was happening across the state. However, what everyone said was it wasn't coordinated, like folks were doing work in pockets, right? And it wasn't coordinated statewide, and we're a small state, not to be coordinated. And so therefore, we said we're not going to be an organization that's just going to jump and say we're just going to do. Health Equity, and we're going to go blindly and figure out what to do, and we might step on toes. That was not going to be our approach. So we decided to do this maternal health equity blueprint so that we can learn what really needs to happen for us to address disparities, so we can also uplift what's happening already in the state, and so that we can also figure out how to work together. We looked at, for example, the Connecticut Chapter of the American College of gynecology and obstetrics, and we reached out to those organizations directly. They were the ones who told us who they would like to represent from their organization's perspective. And then we thought about the entire birthing experience of an individual, and that is the reason why we brought along doulas. We thought about other workforces that are critically important, so midwives came to the table, and then we know that again, as an organization that's looking at systems change, we know we can't do anything without shifting the system. So we thought about who are some of the decision makers that really impact the birthing experience of folks in Connecticut, and that's how we invited the commissioners for the Department of Social Services, Department of Health, and at the time, the Office of Health Strategy, we had to include our hospitals and our FQHCs. And again, our approach was we went to the associations and said, Who would you like to represent your organization as part of the blueprint, and so that is really how we came up with the advisory committee. But I will want to I do also want to know that I commend Marcella and her team, because we didn't stop at that advisory committee. They we also had Connecticut insights, and so we, with Yale at the helm, heard from a lot of voices across the state, a lot of community based members other organizations. We wanted to hear from many people, not just those who were sitting around the table for the advisory committee.

Marcella Nunez: 12:18

So I just love that this is the question, right? And Tiffany, thank you for, like, such a comprehensive answer to it, to go deeper on kind of all of the voices that shaped the blueprint, because it's, you know, I'm, I'm a process nerd, so I think this is really key for everyone listening, to understand. Do you know that we are so grateful to that advisory committee, the thought that went into it. I mean, you know, Tiffany, we took time right to really think about this and and, you know, and hopefully it's really reflected and appreciated in terms of the intention and thoughtfulness that went into sort of gathering folks for the advisory committee, but also the rest of the process. So thinking about, you know, the folks who are at the table, the folks who Connecticut Health Foundation spoke to, even before this process got started, right? All of that carried over into this work, Connecticut insights, that Tiffany talked about over 200 voices, you know, just, just everyday folks in Connecticut who had a, you know, a lived experience, an opinion, a thought, knew someone and could bring that. We had national experts who, you know, we checked in with regularly as a team make making sure that where we were was really aligned with taking into consideration what's happening to and that national context and other localities as well. And then the folks who joined us for those advisory committee meetings, other subject matter experts. So it's really we have many thank yous at the end of the day, you know, for the folks that came to the table to contribute to the blueprint, and you know what I think is really remarkable, Tiffany, I don't, I don't think we ever got a no or even a maybe, like we always got Yeah! Right?

Tiffany Donelson: 14:02

We all did not, which is rare. And the other thing that was pretty incredible Marcela is that our commissioners came to the table. Yes, I will just, I have to thank them over and over again. You know, oftentimes, when you get these leaders and you see their names on something, it really is their proxies. You know they've sent a staff member. They have sent somebody. Our commissioners came to the table. Our leaders showed up. These are very busy individuals, and all of the advisory committee members showed up. And so when you see their names, please know it really is them. It's their voices, it's their ideas that are incorporated into this blueprint. And with the CT insights community showed up and that, I think that that is just an indication of how important this topic is, because at the end of the day, we know that. That the birthing experience should be beautiful. We should not end with tragedy for the birthing experience. And I think fundamentally, we all recognize that and know that, and that is the reason why there is a collective desire to make sure that every individual has the opportunity to have the best birthing experience.

Nancy Barrow: 15:21

When you both created this blueprint, what was your strategy plan to implement it? Was there, like a one year, two year, five year plan, where do you do those checks and balances for yourself? Like it's a big topic?

Tiffany Donelson: 15:36

Yeah, I'll go ahead and get started. So we have the blueprint now, but we are in the process of establishing what implementation is going to look like. If you look at the blueprint, there are goals for the first year and there are goals for subsequent year. So we have in the blueprint moments that we are going to do checks and balances. We have five year goals. And so there is a natural map, so to speak, within the blueprint, we are just starting the process of implementation. I wish I could mention them, but we just engaged a wonderful organization that is going to help lead the implementation in the state. Our goal is to begin to re engage folks in the next week or so. Again, we just engaged a incredible group to help us lead this work, and so we're going to get started soon with implementation.

Nancy Barrow: 16:33

I think that's so incredibly insightful to have a process right like, if you need help, you get the right people who can help you, like you said, map it out and be strategic about it. This has been such a long standing complex issue, the severe maternal morbidity rate of black women who suffer life threatening complications related to pregnancy. What made you both think you could tackle this now.

Marcella Nunez: 17:03

Oh, yeah, it's a great question, right? Why now? And Tiffany said something I think is really important, like, you know, there is this universality to the birthing experience, and whether you know, an individual has gone through it themselves, or had a partner or a loved one. You know, everyone knows someone and understands right and and the joy and we, you know, we get it. I'm a physician there. There are going to be circumstances and situations right where we do have to escalate care. You know, we can't always guarantee, you know, a joyous outcome, but the work here is about, you know, preventing the harm that doesn't need to happen, period. And folks, you know, get that. And I think there is this moment, you know, in a time when it can be very difficult to get that shared experience, get that shared understanding. This is an issue where, no matter who you talk to, right, policy wise, this is a bipartisan issue. Folks are like, yes, we need to be taking care of folks who are pregnant, right, making sure that they have the best possible birthing experience and outcomes. Raising this issue around severe maternal morbidity, you know, is an eye opener for a lot of folks. I mean, probably should take a minute even, and just kind of talk about that for a sec. You know, folks who are listening might know the statistics around mortality, right? And so that is always the very tragic outcome of losing a mom in this process. Morbidity is a whole whole world of clinical considerations that's not even on the radar of all physicians or clinicians. So those are all the kind of medical complications that come out of this that can really lead to disability, you know, for that parent, affecting that family, affecting that community, and so all the things that might get a mom ending up in the ICU or ending up unable to return to work, unable to care for that new baby, right, Moving forward and family. So, so we're really, I think, on the cutting edge in the country, of expanding our conversation that umbrella of maternal health. Yes, we need you to live, but we need you to thrive, right? So it's not just survive, it's survive and thrive as a parent. And everyone deserves that opportunity. So the why Now question is, because people are talking about this. You know, I get calls from other states, other health leaders, who are saying, we have a problem here, right? And we're trying to think together. We see Connecticut. What are you all doing? How can we learn from you? How can we lift this up? The conversations continue across. US administrations, quite frankly, nationally around the need to really invest in maternal health and better maternal health outcomes. So, yes, yes, yes, right? The time is now. This is urgent. You know, every single day there, there is a birthing person in our state who needs and demands us to be coming together, doing this work and making sure they're going to have the best possible health outcome that they can.

Nancy Barrow: 20:28

As a doctor, do you feel that it's in the training of doctors that they don't have the best training and knowledge about this whole issue, and there needs to be, is this more addressed in in medical school?

Marcella Nunez: 20:44

You know, I think we do have this opportunity in education. I um, I've been doctoring for a long time now, and so I've definitely seen the progress we've made in having conversations even in education about disparities and what drives disparities, what drives inequities. You know, when I started school, there was a lot of really kind of misinformation around what might be driving some of these inequities. You know, folks really thought some of the differences we saw were, you know, immutable. You couldn't change them, that they were about biology and that some of these social factors were rooted somehow deeply in our genes, and we've come a long way to know that things like policy really do affect health, right? And you change policy, you can get better health outcomes, people's social environments, economic opportunity, right? We've come a long way, and that's reflected in our medical curriculum too, and I do think that our learners understand the importance of maternal health and mortality and where we rank, but you will find clinicians who are like, wow, I had no idea that severe maternal morbidity was such an issue. So yes, I absolutely think that there are opportunities for us in the educational arena, but in many ways, you know, we're going to be pushing on an open door. People want this information. Folks want their patients to do to do well. So clinicians are going to be a ready partner moving this forward and implementation.

Nancy Barrow: 22:10

How do you see Connecticut Paid Leave intersecting with your vision, and can we be utilized as a supportive tool for the blueprint for, obviously, we do bonding, leave right for 12 weeks for the parents to bond. And we also have, if you don't use the full 12 weeks, and if you're having some mental health issues, we we also, that's also what we are used for.

Tiffany Donelson: 22:35

Well, I will note that in the blueprint, there is an entire section that is dedicated to economic security and mobility. We know that having those factors are really important to the long term health outcomes of the entire family, and where paid leave is really important is in assuring that a birthing individual has the time to appropriately heal, has the time to appropriately bond with their babies. We're talking about severe maternal morbidity, and some and folks need to recognize that this is what happens after you leave the hospital, and having time at home is critically important for the healing process after you leave the hospital, and paid leave gives individuals the opportunity to heal at home, to bond with their babies, but also to heal at home. The challenge, as well, as we know, is that nationally, studies show and have found that black and Hispanic workers, they don't use medical leave, similar to their white counterparts, and what we're hoping for. And again, that shows the gaps you know, if you're not healing at home, if you're not able to really care for yourself after the birthing experience, it impacts your health long term. And what we're hoping for is that by partnering with Connecticut paid leave, we can make sure folks know that they have the ability to take the time off of work after their birthing experience, and that they have the opportunity to heal appropriately at home and to bond with their babies. And that's really what we're hoping for, that folks understand that that is that that it's available to them!

Nancy Barrow: 24:44

It's not for just full time workers. This is for part time workers, seasonal workers.

Marcella Nunez: 24:48

It's extraordinary when we say that the Connecticut Paid Leave is one of those assets you know, that we have in our state. That you know as we talk about all of this, like mapping and understanding. How to really leverage and build upon those assets. This is just a, you know, very phenomenal example. And that economic component is, you know, bold underlined in in the in our blueprint. I mean, this came up all the time, and so knowing that we're in in a state, quite frankly, that has this is fantastic, right? And making sure everybody is aware, as you said, is going to be key. And, you know, making sure our providers are aware and everyone is aware is key, but, but definitely check in the asset column for the positive influence having access to paid leave can happen somebody's birth outcomes, but, yeah, Tiffany, I don't know. Were you gonna add something?

Tiffany Donelson: 25:45

I was just going to also mention that when you talk about replacement of income, that's really important and critical, again, to the economic security, but also the job security. I think that that is the reason why folks do not take the time off is the fear that if they take the time off and they're going to not return to a job. And I think we need to understand those protections as well.

Nancy Barrow: 26:15

Yes, we tell everybody to take FMLA along with Connecticut Paid Leave because FMLA gives you your job back. It's that job protection. Connecticut paid leave is just the income replacement portion. So it's so important to let everybody know that you take these together. So if you want those 12 weeks, you get 12 weeks of FMLA and you get 12 weeks of Connecticut Paid Leave. So you get your job back at the end of those 12 weeks, if you're taking that whole time off to bond with your baby, it's so vitally important. You know, that's the Department of Labor who handles FMLA, but we work very closely together, because it's very important to let everybody know about that, and thank you for saying that, because I think FMLA is super important. And like, we just tell them to take them together. You know, go to your HR, people take them together,

Tiffany Donelson: 27:03

And we appreciate your partnership. So again, we're really lucky to have paid leave in our state, and that you are partnering with other agencies and across the continuum to make sure that individuals are protected. So we appreciate paid leave significantly.

Nancy Barrow: 27:20

Well, thank you. And I know that we could be a tool for you. Are there other tools that you're going to be using to make this successful?

Tiffany Donelson: 27:29

Everyone, everybody, everybody on the table. That's right. Every person who's listening has a role. I really do believe that this is one of those areas where we're going to need everyone to roll up their sleeves in order to tackle it. And again, you could see that in the blueprint. The blueprint uplifts roles for every single organization, every entity, even individuals, family members. You'll see that in the blueprint. So when you say tools, we're going to use every person, every one's work, everything at our disposal, so that we can really move this work forward and get equity in our state.

Marcella Nunez: 28:13

So as Tiffany said, the blueprint starts with, what can we do in this first year now, and how do we think about those milestones incrementally? Like, what can we get done that is about reflecting positive change? It we didn't get here overnight, right? So all the systems that are conspiring together to give us the outcomes we see, you know, didn't just show up. So I talked to all our, you know, colleagues across sectors that you know it's a marathon, for sure, but that doesn't mean you don't have checkpoints, and you don't have milestones, and you don't really work towards seeing real progress. And so I think that's the accountability standard we're kind of holding ourselves to collectively, is, are we going to hit these milestones that we've laid out in this blueprint. That's how we know we're going in the right direction. Are we going to hold ourselves accountable to collecting the data in a rigorous way, baselining ourselves, checking on our progress, pivoting if we need to in a different direction? You know that's how we're going to keep moving forward and keep the forward momentum. So of course, it won't be tomorrow that we see these disparities disappear at all, but this commitment, the commitment of Connecticut, health, foundation, all the partners who've come to the table, is to not get distracted right by something else, to stay focused on this issue and following the blueprint is going to be a great next step.

Nancy Barrow: 29:45

Yeah, when you look back on the process, what are you both most proud of?

Tiffany Donelson: 29:54

I think there's so much to be proud of. I honestly part of it is again, that the. This blueprint incorporates so many critical voices across the state, and so often we do things and we don't talk to those who are most impacted, and to know that the voices of those who are impacted are incorporated, to know that our decision makers were at the table and willing to work with us. To marcella's point, the fact that nobody said no whenever we rose this issue, which lets us know how critical and important it is, how non partisan it is, how it is one of those things that even at this time where there's division, we have unity around this particular issue, which is also really important at a time like now. And so all of those things being uplifted has been what's most important to me personally, and we got it done. I mean, it took us eight months and we got it done. There was a lot that went into this blueprint, and just to be able to have it done in itself is a huge success.

Nancy Barrow: 31:12

Yeah. And what would you like to come out of this podcast? Our conversation.

Tiffany Donelson: 31:19

Awareness to begin with. You know, the the fact that we just want folks to understand the issues across the state, and again, the fact that we're going to need everyone in order to tackle this issue. So we are always open as an organization, to hear from folks. I get emails all the time, and please know I read them. I meet with people happy to hear ideas on how we can improve and who wants to be a part of the blueprint is going to be critically important. So if more folks learn about it, we will have an army of individuals who are really willing to move forward and tackle this issue.

Marcella Nunez: 31:59

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Tiffany like, consider this conversation. You know you're listening today. Consider this conversation an invitation to be part of this movement, right? We can do this. We will do this, and you're going to play a key role.

Nancy Barrow: 32:14

I love that, and I want to thank you both for, you know, working on this blueprint and helping black women cut down that rate of maternal morbidity, it's a huge issue, and you should be very proud of yourselves. I really hope that you are. You're just such smart women, and I'm so looking forward to finding out how you do, like you know. I'm really hoping that you reach all the milestones that you want to, and you reach them in the timeframe that you want to and I hope that we can really move the needle.

Marcella Nunez: 32:45

Thank you so much.

Tiffany Donelson: 32:46

Thank you for having us. Thank you!

Nancy Barrow: 32:47

Yes, I want to thank my guests, the President and CEO of the Connecticut Health Foundation, Tiffany Donaldson, and the Associate Dean for Health Equity Research and the Director of the Equity Research and Innovation Center(ERIC) at Yale, Dr Marcella Nunez Smith, thank you both so much for joining me on The Paid Leave Podcast. It was such a pleasure. You're just lovely women. I just want to say that it's always so great to see these powerful, wonderful women, and I want to thank you so much for joining me.

Marcella Nunez: 33:14

Thank you back at you.

Tiffany Donelson: 33:15

I was just gonn say back atch! Thank you for having us, and thank you for all that you all do at paid leave as well, really help us here in this state. Thank you!

Nancy Barrow: 33:24

It's a pleasure to do all that, and for more information or to apply for benefits, please go to ctpaidleave.org. This has been another edition of The Paid Leave Podcast, please like and subscribe so you'll be notified about new podcasts that become available. Connecticut Paid Leave is a public act with a personal purpose. I'm Nancy Barrow, and thanks for listening.