I started to read a book by Andrew Weil . He was my first book that I read and it was called Eight Weeks to Optimum Health . I just began to make changes slowly . He was very big on the anti-inflammatory diet to add like walnuts to your diet to have some good olive oil and just all the great vegetables and fruits . And I just began to eat less processed foods . I always ate healthy and you know my friends kept saying you , of all people have cancer , you are the healthiest eater and I always exercised , always . So everyone was so surprised , but surprised . But when one thing's out of balance , when you're just so stressed out and not living intentionally and things are out of harmony , that's when diseases like cancer happen , unfortunately , you're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast , a part of the Healing Strong organization , the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world .
Speaker 3Each week we bring you stories of hope , real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health . Now here's your host stage four cancer thriver , jim Mann .
Speaker 2One thing I like about doing this podcast is I get to meet people I normally won't meet , so I feel like I have a bunch of new friends , even though most of them tell me not to contact them again after the recording . That's beside the point , just kidding , of course . Today I am talking to Haley Dubin . Haley , how are you ?
Speaker 1I'm doing well , how are you doing ?
Speaker 2Oh , I am doing fantastic Enjoying this lovely 500 degree weather . You know that's because I'm getting old . When I was a kid I loved it , but because it meant school was out , but still .
Speaker 1I get it . I'm in Cleveland and it is hot here now . I do like hot weather better than cold , because it's cold here many months out of the year .
Speaker 2You're in the wrong place . If you like hot weather , better Right ? Did you grow up in Cleveland ?
Speaker 1I did Born and raised Yep .
Speaker 2That's kind of weird because I grew up in Baltimore , Maryland , and just about everybody I grew up with they're still there . Man , I'm like a renegade .
Speaker 1Yes , I have so many friends that stayed here too .
Speaker 2Hmm , I don't know Something about staying around your hometown . I do miss it every once in a while , but it's been since 81 that I left , so you know it's so weird that I still miss part of it .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's been a while .
Speaker 2Well , I know you've got a story . It's a lot older than mine is , even though you're a lot younger than I am . You got diagnosed with cancer . I think it was in your 20s , wasn't it ?
Speaker 1It was . I was actually 29 , about to turn 30 .
Speaker 2Oh , 29 . That still sounds great . Yes , and you were like healthy before that you thought .
Speaker 1Exactly , that's the key word . I thought , yes , I was young and I had my family . I was married , I had one child , two-year-old at the time . Yeah , and just trying to balance career , motherhood , marriage .
Speaker 3And .
Speaker 1I wasn't handling stress very well . I was trying to balance everything and not doing a very good job of it .
Speaker 2What kind of career were you in ?
Speaker 1So I was in sales , I sold office supplies and you would think it was brain surgery Because I had a big bank , that I was one of my accounts and they I mean nonstop had issues and you know . But I had other accounts too and I was trying to . My boss said I could work part time , but it really wasn't part time , it was really full time . So , yeah , it was a little crazy back then .
Speaker 2Yeah , sales . Just the word sales makes me stress out . It's not something that I am good at , it's not my natural ability . But yeah , I could totally get how you'd be stressful there , because if you don't sell , you don't make money right .
Speaker 1Well , exactly , exactly . I loved making the connections . That was the fun part .
Speaker 2Yeah , I was good at that . I had a couple of sales jobs and I was good at meeting people , but I could not sell anybody anything . I pretty much probably talked them out of it . I'm like you can't afford this .
Speaker 1It's just too much yeah , so definitely not for you .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I finally learned that . Did you enjoy that , though , or is it just ?
Speaker 1You know , I enjoyed it for a while , but I was getting completely stressed out and I remember saying to my husband if something doesn't change , I'm going to get sick . So I guess , be careful what you say out loud , right , right , right , your body hears you that I had a tumor . I was playing tennis with my sister and my mom and another woman . We were playing doubles and all of a sudden I got terrible pain and I still continued to play but I'm like hmm , this is weird . And go to sleep the next morning . It's worse . I I can't even tie my shoe and I'm thinking what is going on ?
Speaker 2and I thought , maybe you just pulled something , or yes , exactly I .
Speaker 1I couldn't imagine . And so I went to the doctor and , uh , he thought it was gas and he gave me gas pills and basically said you know , go home and take this . And I'm thinking I never had gas like that in my life . That hurt that much . And I ended up going the next day because it was even worse . And he told me to go to the emergency room because he thought it was my appendix .
Speaker 2Wow , sounds like he's guessing .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , exactly Exactly . He had no idea . So I was . I remember being in the emergency room for hours and they were doing test after test and finally a doctor did an internal and they must have felt something . I didn't know at the time . But then they did an ultrasound . They first did a CAT scan , didn't really tell me much , and then they did an ultrasound . They first did a CAT scan , didn't really tell me much , and then they did an ultrasound . And then I get a call the next day from my OBGYN saying I want you to come in . We have an oncologist here to talk to them , and they didn't tell me that they think it's cancer , but by their voice I could just tell it was just yeah . And so I had to go in . And you know , at this time I was trying to have another child , my second child , and they were telling me watch this video on hysterectomies . Wow , you know , just in case we find something , you have to get a total hysterectomy .
Speaker 2So yeah , so a week later .
Speaker 1I go in and I just remember waking up in the recovery room to my husband's face , you know , just telling me I have to survive , and I later found out that it was stage three ovarian cancer .
Speaker 2Wow , just the fact that he said watch this video is just , it's just incredible . Like , hey , just watch this , just in case .
Speaker 1Right and I'm 29 . I'm thinking there's no way this is going to happen .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm being , I'm being stressed out now . Sorry to do that to you yeah we have to go for a walk after this . So what happened at that point ?
Speaker 1So it actually spread to my colon as well as my appendix . So they told me that I would need to have chemotherapy and a total hysterectomy . So at first they just took out the tumor , they took out one ovary , because that's where it was , and they said to me you'll have a much better chance of survival if you get everything out . So if you have a total hysterectomy and I'm thinking , oh my gosh , why don't you take everything out right away ? Because I signed something , but you know part of it . They were trying to give me a choice , because I did want to have more kids , but the way they told me it I just was like , okay , let's do another surgery . So yeah , so I had two surgeries and three rounds of chemotherapy and which I would just stay in the hospital for five days each time . It was very extensive and very toxic and at that time they had me stay in the hospital . And after I was finished with these three rounds and after I was finished
with these three rounds .
Speaker 1I remember being declared cancer free , and you know , I knew that it should be a cause of celebration , but I felt more scared than ever and I talked to so many people that feel the exact same way . Like you're supposed to be celebrating , it feels nothing like that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , because I think it's , because you feel like there's a sleeping giant ready to wake up in there , right ?
Speaker 1Yes , exactly Exactly . And you know , I just felt so uneasy about what my next steps would be to ensure that I would live a long healthy life and be there for my son and my husband sure that I would live a long healthy life and be there for my son and my husband . And you know , I knew , oh God , please , I don't want to ever go through this again , if I can help it . And I do remember asking the oncologist all kinds of questions . You know what I could do to remain healthy , and is there a certain diet I can eat ? And I'm just desperate . I'm asking him question after question and all he said to me was go back to living your normal life and I'll see you in three months yeah and I know you hear that a lot- it's a red flag
Speaker 2yeah , yeah , definitely because I think , because I mean , I'm assuming it's because their mentality is it's almost like you can catch cancer , like you can catch the flu . I mean it attacks you , or it's just bad luck that you get it , rather than you know something that you were doing , whether it is stress or your diet or whatever . Whatever it is that's causing these cancer cells to flourish , because we all have cancer cells in us , but you know , our body can take care of it when we are healthy and doing the right things , and even when we think we're healthy , like you did and I did obviously there's something that's out of balance , and it's usually stress or unforgiveness , or toxins that you don't know , or some of the chemicals that you're putting on your body or that you're drinking or that you're living near . Whatever it may be . There's so many variables and of course , it gets worse and worse as our world continues and more chemicals are being put into things . There's a rabbit hole right there . We won't go down .
Speaker 1No , but you're so right . I mean , it's such a multifactorial disease . Yeah , and you know people want like that quick fix . What do I do ? What do I do ? But there's so much that you just mentioned . And you know , for some reason I knew that I needed to take control over my health . I mean , especially when he just said go back to living your normal life and I'll see you in three months , I'm thinking , ok , I don't think my normal life was working for me .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And I need to make a lot of changes . I just , in my gut , knew it . So , with my husband's support , I decided to quit my job and stay home with my son and yeah , and I just began to immerse myself into researching everything I can get my hands on foods , lifestyle , habits , mindsets , you know , anything I can do to support my body and and help me avoid recurrence . I think you know that's such a big thing because I think so many people feel out of control , right Like your body's failing you or failed you .
Speaker 2Yeah , with me it was like everything that I always thought was just related to being a hippie you know , like those tree huggers out there . Then I realized , wait a minute , they're on to something they're grounding when they hug their trees and eat all these things out of nature . And then we realized , oh okay , they're on to something . And now they seem smart to me , yes yes , isn't that funny . Push them off as being hippie and kind of a little crazy . And of course you don't have to be a hippie and live in a van .
Speaker 1I go hiking with some friends , and everyone was rushing off to the next thing and this was just about three weeks ago , everyone was rushing off to the next thing . And this was just about three weeks ago and I just went back in the woods , I took my shoes off and I just sat there . You know , I was not sad . I stood there grounding and I'm thinking , oh my gosh , someone's going to walk by me , thinking I'm absolutely crazy , but I'm like who cares ? I know that it's so beneficial for me , it calms me down .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it's so beneficial for me it calms me down , yeah , and it's so good for the immune system , so , and it helps with sleep . I sleep so well when I do that , when I give myself 15 minutes or so to ground you do that like in the evening no , so it just during the day and then I get really I think it does something to my circadian rhythm At night . I just feel like I could go to sleep easier .
Speaker 2That's why my dogs sleep so well .
Speaker 1Probably . I mean especially if we're not looking at all the screens , and that's the hard part .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , yeah , it's hard to live life without screens . I mean , it's just the way the world is going , especially if you work and you have a computer . You got to do that and of course , the phones . It's just being out of balance . It's hard not to see it and I don't want to put my family out there . Every other family I see at restaurants , you know everyone's looking at the screen . It's just a habit and it is not a healthy habit , even though there's a good part to having those , because you get the knowledge of the world right in your hand . You can get a college degree just through your phone .
Speaker 1So true , it's so true , and so there are a lot of good things .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1But you're right , I feel like people aren't talking . They're not talking with each other and communicating , and there's a lot of bad things about it .
Speaker 2So what did you ? What kind of protocol did you do ? Or did you just kind of amp up the healthy food and got rid of the bad food ?
Speaker 1Yeah . So I mean , everything took time . But I went to a nutrition class . It was actually at our local cancer wellness center and it was all about anti-inflammatory foods . And so I still it's so funny to this day I still have this typed up sheet on you know having well , at that time it said farmed salmon , which is funny , but because of the omega-3s now we want wild caught Alaskan .
Speaker 1But I started to read a book by Andrew Weil . He was my first book that I read and it was called Eight Weeks to Optimum Health and I just began to make changes slowly . He was very big on the anti-inflammatory diet . You know , to add , like walnuts to your diet , to have , you know , some good olive oil and just all the great vegetables and fruits . And I just began to eat less processed foods . I always ate healthy and you know my friends kept saying you , of all people have cancer , you are the healthiest eater and I always exercised , always . So everyone was so surprised . But you know , when one thing is out of balance , when you're just so stressed out and not living intentionally and things are out of harmony , that's when diseases like cancer happen , unfortunately .
Speaker 2Yeah , I ate pretty healthy , but I supplemented it with garbage so I threw in a lot of sugar because I was always skinny and I could eat everything and never gain an ounce , which frustrated me but made other people mad . I was always hungry and I was always eating . Whatever was around , there was always a lot of sugar . So that was my downside is I packed in the sugars . As soon as I found out I had cancer , I just dropped the refined sugars . I mean I still ate fruit . I backed off the bread because I know bread also turns to sugar , but went to sourdough bread , kind of thing .
Speaker 2But , yeah , that right there makes you healthier , even if you're totally healthy before just dropping sugar . Everyone gets more healthy and you drop Even me , a skinny guy . I dropped . I think it was 30 pounds . Amazing , I thought amazing man , where did that ?
Speaker 1come from you're , you know , increasing insulin , and insulin is a growth factor for cancer . So it's just being aware of all these things , um , and taking baby steps , you know , because now I do a lot of things and I'm sure you do a lot of things , but it didn't start off that way . I didn't start off going through my makeup drawer and my body care products and all that and getting rid of everything .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1But now I know a lot more and I do a lot more . So that's why I like to I coach others on how to make your body unhospitable to cancer as much as possible . You know , we're not God , we can't control everything , but I just I always tell people , just do the things you can control .
Speaker 2Yeah , like you were in a good , good situation , it seems that that you were declared cancer free . But then you were like , okay , now I'm going to change everything in my life to go in the direction of staying cancer free , rather than so many people . You know they panic when they get the diagnosis and you know they try to change things at that point . You know it's stressful just thinking , wow , I don't have a lot of time , even though you normally do have more time than you think you do . But the doctors kind of make you feel like you gotta hurry . And of course , usually they talk about the chemo and stuff . And again , I always gotta say that I'm not bashing doctors . You know they're brilliant , we need them . But lots of them their hands are tied or all they know is the chemo and radiation . You know some of them still say diet has nothing to do with it . I fortunately had a doctor who says diet has a lot to do with it . So does stress . I mean I was shocked that he talked that way I know You're right .
Speaker 1That is not the norm .
Speaker 2Yeah , and then I had my cousin that I was very close to . His doctor said eat more donuts to keep your weight up . He says it doesn't matter what you eat , and you know .
Speaker 1And he I know , and when people say that to this day , it just blows my mind yeah , all the information out there . But you're right .
Speaker 2These doctors are busy . They don't have time . They know what they know .
Speaker 1Yeah , so you're still cancer free . Yes , thank God I'm I am cancer free , and several decades . Yes , yes , it's been well , it's been 26 years in May . I can't even believe it . Yeah , it was May of 1998 .
Speaker 2Yeah , so other than changing your diet and getting rid of your stress from your job , you're doing things , like you said , to encourage other people and to train other people and counsel with other people . I know you've got a website revivewellnesscom .
Speaker 1What is that about ? About me and my journey and what I prescribe to people . You know , to live your most joyful life and , like you said , people get diagnosed with cancer and they are just in this fair state . And I get it . I get it , I was too and you're looking at all these things , especially now online . And you're looking at all these things , especially now online .
Speaker 1What should you know ? Should I take this herb ? Should I take this supplement ? You know , should I detox right now ? You know just all these things and it is so , so overwhelming . So I really like to work with people to get rid of that overwhelm and help them focus on the things they could do right now and then we can talk about . Okay , is there a certain practitioner that you feel would be right for you ? I recommend people . So , yeah , we go through their food , we go through their emotions . I mean , the emotional impact of cancer is huge and so many people have had traumas before they're ever diagnosed with cancer , so that's so big and I'm sure a lot of your guests have talked about that .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1You know go through a divorce or a change of a job or a death in the family . I mean , there's so many things . So , it's really the holistic approach and you know , my goal is just to help them transform their lives , live their best , most vibrant life , and it's been gratifying , it really has , and I actually I started a podcast . What who does that ?
Speaker 2It's been gratifying . It really has , and I actually I started a podcast .
Speaker 1What ? Who does that ? Similar to you , I wanted people to know . There's other things out there , like you mentioned . Yes , sometimes conventional care that's what people need to do , but there's so many other things to build up the body and I wanted to bring on practitioners who are thinking outside the box to heal cancer , and survivors that have done amazing things to help others after their diagnosis . So it's a very hopeful podcast . It's called the Cancer Liberation Project and , yes , I'm proud of it .
Yeah , I heard you on a podcast , on James Templeton's podcast . Yeah , he's one of my heroes , since he had the same kind of cancer and , of course , he had it like 100 years ago .
Speaker 1He's such a great guy .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah . His story is amazing . Of course you know he's Texan so he's going to . He's got a lot of fight in him .
Speaker 1Sure does .
Speaker 2I heard you talk about how , like your doctor said , there's really no support groups for you . Of course , that was a long time ago . Uh , because you know you're younger , support groups are more like for old people who are dying from cancer , I guess . But you know that's what Healing Strong is all about , is our strength is the support groups , which is you know basically what it is . It's the largest group of support groups holistic support groups in the world . I don't know how many hundreds we have now , but it's basically a lot , and I have one in Greenville , south Carolina . The thing about it is , you know , I don't go there and teaching them like I know a lot . In fact , just about everybody in my group seems to know more than I do about this , which is great . I have a key to open the building , so you know that's like my part .
Speaker 2But , the thing is , everyone loves the fact that they're with group of people that are going through similar journeys . I mean , they're all different but they're similar journeys and we can just talk about anything and we leave that meeting with a lot of hope and encouragement and , as we hear each other's stories and , you know , catch up with them , because we meet once a month , or at least my group does . Some of them meet every week , but it's just a very hopeful time .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , I think community is so , so important . You're absolutely right . I mean , when I went through that all those years ago , he said there's no support group for me and it was lonely . Even though my family was so supportive , they didn't get it . They didn't know what I was going through . So it becomes really lonely . So I think that community is so , so important . I love that you're doing that and you're holding space for people .
Speaker 1That's huge , maybe you're not teaching them about diet and all that stuff , but you're holding space for them , which is even probably more important to get their feelings out .
Speaker 2Yeah , we do have a curriculum that's already put together for us At least that's what I use but we go through that and it does teach diet and the stress and 12 lessons . So once a . Obviously it goes through a year and the changeover in my group is such that I can just start over again because people are like oh , I didn't know that part , and last time I brought my little juicer and we did some juicing , but basically I can't get them to stop talking about their stories . So it's great and I'm always bragging about ours , because you know , in greenville , south carolina , we have a cancer survivors park and they have a building which they actually let me use .
Speaker 2It's it's a beautiful place and the park was made for people . Uh , it's not a healing strong thing . I mean , it's the hospitals and all that pay for it but it's a place , if you're , you know , battling cancer , it's a place in nature that you just can go and relax . It's amazing to me that the hospital is paying for this and putting people into nature . Normally they don't talk about that . Like you know , get out of the woods and do your chemo .
Speaker 1Right , right , that is just incredible . So I like to see that things are changing . That's really wonderful .
Speaker 2They're slowly changing . Not fast enough , but they are changing . So that's a good thing . And we even have different stations . When I say we , the park has different stations where you get like the one got a little QR code that you click on there and it'll show a video a doctor talking about how important laughter is , you know , to have a cheerful heart . And another one about , you know , stress and what is incredible . It's like something that Healing Strong should have put down here , but it was . You know , it's like $11 million park that they put in there . So yeah , it's how great11 million park that they put in there . So yeah .
Speaker 1How great . I want to go visit it .
Speaker 2Yeah , come on , come on down from Cleveland In the winter , you can come .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's a better time right .
Speaker 2Our winters are , like you know , in the 40s or something .
Speaker 1I could deal with that , that's for sure .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Well , hey , how can people get a hold of you if they want to find out more about your projects ? Obviously , they can go to your podcast , livewellnesscom , and you know , I'm just hoping that these conversations give you hope and know that you're not in this alone , that's for sure .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I saw on your website you have a like a free ebook seven top tips to keep cancer away and feel confident in your body again . That's a .
Speaker 1Yes , yes . So people can go there and download that for free and get those tips .
Speaker 2Yes , that's one thing that , as cancer survivors or cancer thrivers , as we like to call ourselves , they're still every time you have like a new pain or something like no , tell me , that's not something coming back . You know that fear is always like in the back of the mind , even though you don't want to believe it , but still .
Speaker 1You're right . You're right , and it takes a long time for that to lessen . It does , yeah , because I remember having pains , even in my head , and I'd panic , you know . So it's normal . And you just made me think I wanted to tell people to be compassionate with themselves . And you just made me think I wanted to tell people to be compassionate with themselves . It's , you know , we could be so hard on ourselves . And why aren't we feeling like we used to and why are we low energy ? And we just have to be easy on ourselves and show ourselves grace and love .
Speaker 2I was kind of like my next question . It's usually my last question . I ask you know , how would you encourage somebody who is , you know , just got a diagnosis , and they're listening and they're in fear and they're in panic and they don't know what to do . They feel like they had to hurry . But that's the advice that I was looking for . Oh wow , I didn't even know you were going to ask that I didn't know you were going to ask that yeah , you just made me think of something else .
Speaker 1Just know you're not in a huge hurry and really sit and quiet with yourself and breathe . And if you go to a doctor and you don't feel that they're good for you , if you're feeling constricted , go to someone else . You know you're interviewing them and and don't feel that you have to go to the first doctor that you , that your hospital recommends . So that's another thing to really listen to your gut . And I know sometimes people have a hard time listening to their gut , but I always . Sometimes people have a hard time listening to their gut , but I always the best way for me to do it is sitting in quiet and if I feel good about something , there's like an expansion , and if I'm worried about something , there's that constricting feeling . So I just wanted to mention that .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's excellent . You know , all doctors are smart , but some of them just don't have the wisdom . I don't know what it is , or they're just the way they . You compassion ? You know everyone wants that .
Speaker 1And so if they're just all business , and maybe that's the type of person you are and if that works for you , but if it doesn't , look for somebody else .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah . Bedside manner is important to me , so normally that comes through the nurses , though that's why we have nurses .
Speaker 1That's true . I , oh I think about my nurses . They were so incredible , so incredible . I give them so much credit .
Speaker 2Yeah , so where do you see things five years from now ? You just continue expand your ministry , or whatever you want to call it , your project .
Speaker 1Such a good question . You know I want to get into groups more , so right now I just do individual , and groups is something I've really been thinking about , and as far as the podcast , I'm going to keep it up as long as I get amazing guests . I know I'm interviewing Suzy Griswold soon from your organization and , jim , if you want to come on , we could talk about that too okay , yeah , like I was telling you earlier , suzy , she's just going to be really mean and grouchy .
Speaker 2It's just how she is . It's hard to be nervous right yeah , I say that of course everyone listening to this podcast knows that's totally the opposite of how Susie is . So , yeah , she'll be super sweet and you'll just have a wonderful time with her . Because she's almost too nice , I think she needs to be pulled over and get a citation or something . I'm sure there's a limit to how nice somebody can be , but she's over the limit if that's the case .
Speaker 1Well , I'm looking forward to meeting her .
Speaker 2Well , thanks for joining me today .
Speaker 1Well , thank you so much , jim .
Speaker 3You've been listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast , a part of the Healing Strong organization
.
Speaker 3We hope you found encouragement in this episode , as well as the confidence to take control of your healing journey , knowing that God will guide you on this path .
Speaker 3Healing Strong is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to connect , support and educate individuals facing cancer and other diseases through strategies that help to rebuild the body , renew the soul and refresh the spirit . It costs nothing to be a part of a local or online group . You can do that by going to our website at healingstrongorg and finding a group near you or an online group , or start your own , your choice . While you're there , take a look around at all the free resources . Though the resources and groups are free , we encourage you to join our membership program at $25 or $75 a month . This helps us to be able to reach more people with hope and encouragement , and that also comes with some extra perks as well . So check it out . If you enjoyed this podcast , please give us a five-star rating , leave an encouraging comment and help us spread the word . We'll see you next week with another story on the I Am Healing Strong podcast .