So to look at a terrible diagnosis and instead of say this is the worst thing in the world for me , it opened my whole life . It let me see how I had been mismanaging my own life and it also helped me see the priorities of my life and I saw God in the most intimate , close connection , where I was having conversations , conversations with God , and I had never had that before . Yeah , but getting this and then seeing how my family is the priority me and my family , god , me , my family and then I talk about it in the book where the night where I was diagnosed and I'm in the hospital , I have this moment where I realize that those are my priorities and all my achievements as a lawyer literally meant nothing . Yeah , I mean nothing , and I was stunned by that , but it remains the same . What a wake-up call .
Speaker 3You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast , a part of the Healing Strong organization , the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world . Each week we bring you stories of hope , real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health . Now here's your host stage four cancer thriver , jim Mann .
Speaker 2Jennifer Dickinson , thank you so much for joining me today on this podcast .
Speaker 1It's such a privilege to be here .
Speaker 2Thank you again for the book that you sent me an autographed copy of that . That doubles the value right there . I jumped on it right away . Got a few days ago , jumped on it and of course it gives me an excuse to go to the coffee shop . So that's always good and I liked it because , I mean , I've been through cancer myself , I'm a survivor , cancer-free now , and I know a lot of stuff that you put in here . But it's so good for me , a person like myself whose thoughts are just all over the map , to have it laid out like you have . My only complaint is there's no pictures .
Speaker 1No pictures .
Speaker 2Yeah , I got to be like a grown up and read the words . How do ?
Speaker 1we do it and we'll add some pictures in there for you .
Speaker 2Okay , I appreciate that Now we're going to talk about the book and we're going to talk about your diagnosis , but let's get a little background on you in the first place , because you were born in New York , right ? How came ? You didn't stay there .
Speaker 1Well , it's a little cold . Yes , I grew up in New York . It's beautiful . We're about an hour north of the city , so it was very bucolic and beautiful . And I went to college University of Rochester , which is even further cold . So after that I decided for law school I need to go south . So I went to Georgia , I went to Emory for law school and then I sort of stayed because the weather is so nice . And that's where I became a lawyer , got my degree .
Speaker 2Okay , so you're still in the Atlanta area , then right .
Speaker 1That's correct .
Speaker 2Yes , Okay , yeah , I was just there Monday , monday yeah .
Speaker 1Really .
Speaker 2Yeah , you didn't see me .
Speaker 1No , I didn't see you .
Speaker 2Weird that is weird . Yeah , yeah , it was Of course , that was just last year . You graduated from college , right ?
Speaker 1Yeah , no , no , no , no . I've been doing this for a while . Yeah , it was about 30 years , 30 years Wow .
Speaker 2That's a lot . Yeah , I was 30 years in radio , so we kind of like have the same thing , but I started kind of late too , so I'm sure I'm probably four or five times your age , so you had your own place .
Speaker 1Okay , so as a lawyer I sort of went up the ranks . I was very motivated hardworking and I was , I guess , pretty successful . I was based on those metrics , right .
Speaker 1Through a business metrics and ultimately I was with a big firm , I became the managing partner of that huge firm and then , ultimately , there were changes made and so I left that firm with another lawyer and we created our own firm and we had a hundred lawyers and staff and we had offices all throughout Georgia . We had 12 of them and I was 40 . And I thought that was pretty cool and it was pretty good for a while and I was like , wow , this is going to really work . I could see it . I had seen the vision and I could see it . But then 2007 , 2008 , the financial crisis .
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1And our firm does . We had a department that did litigation , but not my department . We did the transactional side , which is about 93 of the staff are on my side . So it's very stressful and I had to sort of restructure the whole firm because I had all those offices and all these people and I had to let people go . And I learned through this process I am a terrible firer , I am terrible at it and I learned later on I'm actually a very sensitive soul , which is why everything that was going on I took so personally and that also helped create the illness that I had , because I was in a stress situation for probably four years , constantly running , running . So I'm going along , trying to solve the problem and we're successful . We're successful . The firm was the largest female real estate firm in the Southeast , so it was kind of a big deal , but in that I was wrapped up in my name , in what I was doing and my achievements and all my public speaking events , you know , for litigation or for legal matters , you know , and I would do a lot of speaking .
Speaker 1But then I started to start to have problems in 2011 . In January , I was talking with a client like a famous client , and they asked me a question and I really couldn't . I couldn't remember what I said and I know people . I realize people forget stuff all the time and in fact I see it all the time . I'm like , wow , but it's different , right ? I literally for the life of me I couldn't remember and they wouldn't help me . They weren't like , oh yeah , that mean Bob . It was just it didn't go very well . And that was the first I noticed . And I was doing a public speaking event and it was like PBS , but it was all lawyers speaking . It's not like normal people would have seen it . But I had to go to PBS and I did my whole schmeal about everything and I finished it and I was like I don't know what I just said .
Speaker 1So that was in January of 2011 . And um and I you know , it was just I didn't realize I had brain cancer at that point , but uh , you could just see every month that would get worse and worse . And then I finally , in March , I saw a doctor , a neurologist , and he's like , oh , he was really relaxed about it . And he's like all the lawyers are stressed out , don't worry about it , we'll do a test . Well , I'll set the test up for you and we'll do that . I'm like , okay , well , that's fine . Well , two months later , he's ready with the test . But I'm doing more public speaking . I'm driving to Florida for six hours , right ?
Speaker 1So , I did two events and the first one was a little bit questionable for the first hour , for the first minute , because I was having trouble reading my own notes . But then I put those stupid notes down . I did the whole thing and I was like , did it right ? But I thought to myself I really hope nobody says something like says at the end , have a question , because I didn't know I was having cognitive problems . I didn't know how to define these words , but I knew I couldn't handle a question because I didn't know that I would be able to answer it . And of course somebody came in and they're like oh hello , I have a question and I , you know , somehow I got rid of it , got home and I was like I am not doing well , but I had one more to do . And so again , driving back to Florida six hours back and forth with this thing growing , not knowing that . And the second time I did it it was a big group of bankers and I had a lot of friends in that one and they're like it wasn't good .
Speaker 1I knew it wasn't good . The other one . I kind of got away with that , but this was not good . Next day I got an MRI and finally demanded I had to demand the MRI from that doctor and I demanded it . I go to the place and that's where I was discovered that I had glioblastoma grade four .
Speaker 1They actually at that point they didn't know , but they said it's a high level , but it ultimately was a grade four , which is they don't give you much chance to live . It's like 95% die within 12 to 18 months , Even if you get the full protocol like the chemo , the brain surgery , chemo radiation , they still they'll say , well , it'll come back . They kept saying that , which is why the name of my book , the Case for Hope . There is a case for hope , it's not a guarantee , but it is one .
Speaker 2I have to bring my stress down , because you just gave me a flashback to speech class in college , but that's a different story . Yeah , thanks for that , but that's a different story . Yeah , thanks for that . Yeah , so when did they actually okay ? You said they did diagnose it , and then what protocol did they want to put you on ?
Speaker 1So for me it was going to be , and I did this , I did brain surgery , then I did five weeks of radiation and then I did brain surgery , then I did five weeks of radiation and then I did chemo . They were going to make it for 12 months but I really , at six months of it I was like I don't want . I mean , I'm kind of small and I just felt like it was just knocking me down more than anything else .
Speaker 1And I actually , at the six months , I said that to my oncologist and he said , no , we're going to go the 12 . Then I started having it's almost like a God thing , right . Like in the ninth month I started to have breakout in like hives all over . I mean I had taken all of these it's chemicals , right but I had all these hives and so I told the doctor I don't want to take this anymore and he was going to put more drugs on me so I could handle the problem that I was having .
Speaker 1So , fortunately , Duke we had a relationship with Duke which has a big brain center , and I had been working with them and like I'd fly there and they'd check me out , and they told me that actually the studies on the medicine that I was taking , which was called Temidor , that the actual studies on it to get it passed through the government was it was only six months . It was only six months . But they say to the doctors but we let the doctors you know if they want to , but it has never been tested beyond that , Isn't that not it ?
Speaker 1So , once I got that information , I'm like I'm done , I'm done , and that was great because it's you know , you know it knocks you down . Your immune system just knocks you down with all that .
Speaker 2Yeah and of course , before you had cancer . You don't really think about that kind of stuff . Most people don't go around thinking about chemo .
Speaker 1No way .
Speaker 2Unless they have a close family member , of course , but just the fact that it kills everything in its sight , then hoping your body can fight its way back . It's just a little crazy . In fact , my oncologist , which really threw me back when he said this , he goes . You know , chemo never really did work . I'm like what , who are you ?
Speaker 1Did he really say that ?
Speaker 2He said that he goes . You know , it's pretty barbaric .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2And I said , wow , I like you . And they didn't give me chemo , I did immunotherapy .
Speaker 3Oh , you did .
Speaker 2Yeah , and they didn't give me chemo . I did immunotherapy . Oh , you did , yeah , and so it cleared my . I had like eight tumors , I had melanoma , and it came back after 18 months and that's when they put me on immunotherapy and it cleared up the tumors and within the first two months , Wow . I know I like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , so at that time did you also start to use all the other tools that I learned for myself ? Did you also start to make changes in your life .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and I like the title because I'm a very hopeful person anyway , I think it's just my simple mindedness , but I have a childlike outlook on life and so that gives you a lot of hope . But I changed my diet . I cut out sugar , you know , exercise and got rid of any stress I had . But again , stress doesn't really affect me too much because I forget about it , like what . So , yeah , pretty much everything . You're in there .
Speaker 1Stress is associated with the top six killers in the United States and two of them cancer in the heart .
So I mean , when we are living in a life of constant stress not the way that you have run your life , but certainly me when you do that you're not oxygenating your body as much because you're in fight and flight role all the time . You wake up in the morning , oh my gosh , you wake up in the middle of the night and the fact that they have made this correlation is so brilliant , thank God , because you have to relax , part of for your circumstance . I bet just some other people have taken the medicine that you took . Yeah , it wasn't successful like it was for you , and I do know that having a positive attitude is an element of healing .
Speaker 1It is it just is right , versus somebody who's just like , oh how did this happen to me ? Which is completely legitimate and that's okay to feel that way .
Speaker 1But at the same time I always tell people I do a lot of public speaking , obviously about my book and trying to get the word out is the most important thing . But I always say I had a terrible diagnosis , grade four brain cancer , glioblastoma , giving me 12 months . I'm 40 . I have a first grader and a third grader . I mean I was a bit as bad as it gets right . No chance . They basically said , no chance , get your papers in order .
Speaker 1But what I discovered very quickly because I am a hopeful person and also I didn't buy it what they were saying , I just didn't buy it . I didn't believe I couldn't add something to this and shift this . But you can find joy and pleasure in so many simple things and it is free . You know , petting your dog or your cat or going outside and just watching the trees and just feeling life or laughter . I mean I love comedy , I like nice comedy , I don't like the raunchy stuff . But your physical body is responding to that . And I'm just going to say this one more I talk a lot , so I'm sorry , but I'm warning you . But I've learned through this process that we don't get sick just in our bodies . That is the second place . It starts in your mind .
Speaker 1And it is on and on how I I talk to so many people with cancer , all different types , and people have groups of areas , like breast cancer people , For example . They often are giver , giver , givers , but they don't ever take it back , and so and I talked to them and they're like totally like that , and a lot of the breast cancer also have conflicts with their husband or significant other and almost like cheating , or I've heard psychological cheating which I don't really understand that Brain cancer people type A , personalities like me , and also a lot of the managers of taking care of other people like me , but also sensitive souls like me , and that's how it knocks you down right . Some people have no problem firing somebody , but for me it was devastating . So double whammy .
Speaker 2Wow , so you're saying I'll never have brain cancer ?
Speaker 1I don't see it . I don't see it . No , I don't see that at all .
Speaker 2Yeah , what helped me is , you know , I was on the morning show at the radio station and my job I was like there was three of us in the morning my job was to say the off the wall funny stuff . So we basically just had a blast every morning a little too early in the morning , but still in the morning , so I was always happy and laughing . It was in my favor . So , and that's when I got my diagnosis . I had to kind of live it out in front of 500,000 people . It was great . Actually , Once you got the diagnosis and you're cleared , it just changes your whole life , as you well know .
Speaker 1Well , absolutely A brand new shift of everything , your priorities , just like totally , completely opposite what you thought .
Speaker 2So what is it , your personality type that made you just positive , someone looking for hope , or what was the cause of that ?
Speaker 1Yes , I do think that's a big part of it . And again , I've done like big public speaking events and people say , but not everybody is a positive person , right , and I'm like but you don't have to be , I've already shown you what you need , you don't have to figure this out . Only a positive person would say , hmm , if there's one person out there who's beaten this , why can't I beat this ? Right , it was that mindset that got me to the point where I was ultimately able to do all the things that I learned in my book , that I created , that I found in my own path . So I do think that having a positive attitude is a big piece . But here's the challenge I feel I'm very appreciative of my doctors , but they do not have the whole piece of the pie , and that is absolutely clear to me , as as anything Um there , if there's a pie , the traditional medicine , uh , is going to , is going to be a piece of it , but it's the mindness , the mindfulness , the body and the spirit .
Speaker 1To me , that's the whole piece and that's where people might be a positive person . But let's say , if they're a little older , they've come from the way they grew up , which is you just believe what the doctors tell you , and so they might be a positive person . But the doctor keeps hammering them . You've got 12 months . You've got 12 months , get your papers and orders . Oh well , what if somebody it's not going to happen ? My doctor kept , even after I got through chemo and radiation the whole , he kept saying , well , when it comes back , he had a plan for when it comes back .
Speaker 2And .
Speaker 1I would say if it comes back . And then he would say again when it comes back . And I say it was like this bizarre fifth grader . No way , I didn't say so , but I was fighting for my hope and I wasn't going to let him take it away from me .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . I like where you kindly said in your book that Western doctors have blind spots . That's a very good way of saying it .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Because they sure do . Because , you know , at the same time I was diagnosed and I've said this on many episodes that I had a younger cousin who was diagnosed with it wasn't even stage one yet prostate cancer . They weren't even sure it was cancer but , you know , by the time they figured out it wasn't , they chemoed him for five years until he passed away . And here I am with stage four melanoma at his funeral , cancer-free , and they said it doesn't matter what you eat , eat more donuts to gain your weight back . I'm like I'm no doctor , but I know better than that . I don't have that blind spot .
Speaker 1I have a woman . She's dealing with brain cancer right now and her doctor they've okay , she's had surgery and all this stuff At this point . They've had lots of MRIs and they've got a recent MRI and there's something there but they didn't do . It's called a contrast , which lets you see the brain in a more brighter manner . They didn't do that and she doesn't have the notes from that MRI . But now they're going to go into other surgery for her and I was just like what is it ? And she goes I don't know , they don't know . I'm like we is it and she goes I don't know , they don't know . I'm like we got to get this information first . I mean they're already putting this whole plan together . They don't even know .
Speaker 1You know you don't go into your brain just to investigate . You know . I mean there are other ways to get a little bit more information . So you've really got to be your own advocate . Oh boy , I really . That is one of the biggest thing . And for me , being a lawyer and running my own company and dealing with all kinds of multimillion dollar things going on all the time when I got sick , I was nothing right . I was nothing in the world of hospitals and stuff and people can treat you so badly and I don't know what that is . Sometimes Some people are just lovely and they say the perfect thing when you're in a situation so scared like that , but other people treat you like you're garbage and I had plenty of that and , unfortunately for them , I'd unleash it . I'd just be like everybody here is sick and you need to understand that I'm not at the deli . People are really scared .
Speaker 2And I have 100 lawyers in my building .
Speaker 1Right , right , right , no , but I calmed down . Actually , through my process I learned to sort of calm down , because that was part of the problem . I run pretty quickly , but it was too much and this process was in the oddest way . It was actually a gift in some ways it was almost like God was saying I want you to be here but , not this way and you are not making the changes that need to happen .
Speaker 1So I'm going to help you Right
. So to look at a terrible diagnosis and instead of say this is the worst thing in the world for me , I it opened my whole life . It let me see how I had been mismanaging my own life and it also helped me see the priorities of my life and I saw God in the most intimate , close connection , where I was having conversations with God and I had never had that before . But getting this and then seeing how my family is the priority me and my family , god , me , my family . And then I talk about it in the book where , the night where I was diagnosed and I'm in the hospital , I have this moment where I realize that those are my priorities and all my achievements as a lawyer literally meant nothing . Yeah , I mean nothing and I was stunned by that , but it remains the same . What a wake up call .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . So basically you realized because you have an organized mind , which I don't that you had to get balance back into your life . Something was out of balance because we were made to heal . As we know , when we cut ourselves , it automatically heals as long as you don't get dirt in it . But I mean so the inside also heals . That's just the way God created us .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2And we get our minds set on something and go after something , forgetting everything else . Maybe it's exercise , maybe it's the way we eat , especially here in America , getting your priorities mixed up , putting your job which is very easy to do as a lawyer I understand , especially if you have a hundred of them with you Not putting your family first , family time We'll do that later , we'll do this later . It's always we'll do this later . You know you love your daughters and your husband , of course , but yeah , it's . I love the fact that after you get cancer you don't want it , but after you get it , you know life . I always say it goes from black and white to color . It's just you know realize , wow , what have I been missing . You know how have I been living .
Speaker 1Literally when I had the brain surgery .
Speaker 1There were so many God things associated with it . It's just literally . It should be a book on and of itself . But when I had the surgery , you're very swollen everywhere the bandages and everything so I get to leave the hospital and I can't fly because you can't fly with all that pressure . So I had to for a couple of weeks and I had my kids and perfect situation . But the strange thing is is I always used to say when I got sick , the day I got sick , I said I'm a lover of life . How could this happen ? I remember saying that I'm sobbing , I'm like I'm a lover of life . I'm a lover of life , right , but I wasn't living it . And I learned that after getting the surgery . So I have the surgery , I'm in Texas , recovering , and immediately I start to see everything in multicolor . Just like you're saying , I would eat every bite of food that was so good . It was so good .
Speaker 1I would see a bird and I would just marvel in its color and its movement , or the trees , or the sky . I was just in awe , like seeing life again , like a child would see seeing life again like a child would see and that you can find so many gifts from these . Awful quote . Unquote . Awful things . This is how you can wake up . Wake up right , If you choose to .
Speaker 2Yeah , even the way you breathe .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2So you stress that in there and that's something like who thinks about breathing ? I mean , it's just something you do automatically , but it's really you don't do it . Well , automatically , right , it's important to breathe , of course , but do it ?
Speaker 1right , and cancer needs a little oxygen . But it doesn't like a lot of oxygen , right , you know high oxygenation . So when you're just sitting there watching TV and eating ho-hos , you're feeding the cancer and you might be feeling sorry for yourself , but you're actually helping it . But also , cancer also thrives on acidic foods versus alkaline foods , which I'm sure you know well . All about that . But all these things , I learned one thing after another . There was no book out there that had it nice and neat that I could find at that time .
Speaker 2The acidic and the alkaline . I always get confused as to which food is which , because it doesn't make sense . So you have it out here , appendix E .
Speaker 1You're so good , you did read it . I'm so happy .
Speaker 2I understand coffee is acidic , but the rest like what Crackers .
Speaker 1Right , right , and processed foods can be acidic , but the dance is , it's a dance between acidic foods and then alkaline . So let's just say , easy , alkaline is going to be your greens Green if you make those green drinks or broccoli , okay , those are . That's an example , but they are kind of all over the map . But the key is to have both of them , but more alkaline , and that is an environment that the cancer does not really has trouble living in and thriving in .
Speaker 2So don't help them . Trouble living in and thriving in . So don't help them Just like the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nerves . People always talk about that and I always like which one is which . But so I wrote it down from your book and I mean you need the sympathetic obviously at times , but you want to hang out with the parasympathetic right .
Speaker 1Right , right , Exactly exactly .
Speaker 2Finally , I learned .
Speaker 1You got it .
Speaker 2Yeah , so what's the best way for people to get a hold of you and to find out about your book and everything ?
Speaker 1Okay , I've got a website called jenniferdickinsoncom . It's called jenniferdickinsoncom and it's J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R-D-I-C-K-E-N-S-O-Ncom and I'm on Instagram and Facebook , but under Jennifer Dickinson and . Jennifer L Dickinson , but also my book is on Amazon and it's really anywhere Right . And how did you hear about ?
Speaker 2Healing Strong . How did you cross them ? Oh , my book is on Amazon and it's really anywhere Right . And how did you hear about ?
Speaker 1Healing Strong . How did you cross them , oh my gosh . So at this point , after about three years of my diagnosis and now I started to help other people who are in all kinds of cancer and so I started coaching other people , I was getting pretty strong about that and I also got very I was very clear about how we can heal . I think it was 2017 , healing Strong had a big event . I was like I don't know what this is about , but I'm going to go . It sounds really good .
Speaker 2At the InTouch Studios .
Speaker 1Yes , it was in Atlanta , right .
Speaker 2I was there .
Speaker 1You were there .
Speaker 2Yeah , I didn't see you again , so we gotta , we gotta fix that right .
Speaker 1We have to fix that , um . But I went there and I was blown away . In fact , the book , my book , references healing strong as a resource , because I think it's the best period you know , because so many resources .
Speaker 1It's just everybody complains with each other . But what you guys do and I've gone to many events and stuff and I've gone to other big events but I've also there's a local one but you've got it figured out and what a blessing that you do . So that was the first time I was around what you guys were doing and I was just like these people have got it figured out and so I stuck with that .
Speaker 2Excellent , that was 2018 , in fact .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2I was diagnosed in 16 . And then I heard about Healing Strong Myself . I thought hey , that's just down in Atlanta , I'll go there because I'm in Greenville , south Carolina . I too was blown away . You might have heard me gasping up in the nosebleed seats . I'm like what ? What's going on ?
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2It was very good .
Speaker 1Well , you know this is the truth . I know we're cutting , I know we got to go , but this is the truth . This is how , how we heal . These are all the pieces , so I'm thrilled and honored to be associated with you and Healing Strong and really anyone who is interested in looking at this differently , because there's so much hope in this .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . Well , jennifer , thanks so much . I'm glad I got to meet you . Thank you for the book and , yes , pictures next time for me .
Speaker 1Okay , thank you . It was really an honor to be here .
Speaker 2Before I go , I want to recognize a partner of Healing Strong . Rgcc is globally recognized as the leading laboratory in the field of personalized cancer testing . Rgcc partners with patients and practitioners throughout the cancer journey with powerful testing tools that provide actionable information allowing for the creation of personalized treatment protocols . To learn more , head to myrgcccom forward slash healing dash strong .
Speaker 3You've been listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast
. A part of the Healing Strong organization . We hope you found encouragement in this episode , as well as the confidence to take control of your healing journey , knowing that God will guide you on this path . Healing Strong is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to connect , support and educate individuals facing cancer and other diseases through strategies that help to rebuild the body , renew the soul and refresh the spirit .
Speaker 3It costs nothing to be a part of a local or online group . You can do that by going to our website at healingstrongorg and finding a group near you or an online group , or start your own , your choice . While you're there , take a look around at all the free resources . Though the resources and groups are free , we encourage you to join our membership program at $25 or $75 a month . This helps us to be able to reach more people with hope and encouragement , and that also comes with some extra perks as well . So check it out . If you enjoyed this podcast , please give us a five-star rating , leave an encouraging comment and help us spread the word . We'll see you next week with another story on the I Am Healing Strong podcast .