Jim: This episode is part of the Top 10 Tour, 100K Strong, our way of celebrating 100,000 downloads by revisiting the conversations our community loves most. New episodes are coming in September, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss a thing. Now, enjoy this episode.

Dr.Contreras: And so one of the things that I tell my patients is that every outcome from better results to complete remission is a miracle And miracles need to be maintained.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: So let's say that, you know, you go through the therapy and the tumor goes away, and then you go back to your old ways, and then the tumor comes back, and then you blame God because-

Jim: Yeah ...

Dr.Contreras: his miracle was not good enough. Uh, uh, so miracles need to be maintained and, and one of the ways is to reduce the possibility of this tumor taking advantage of elements that, that make the tumor grow and proliferate, and diet plays a ma- plays a major, major role in that.

And one of the reasons why in America 50% of the population will develop cancer in their lifespan is because of the lifestyle. So changing that lifestyle is a very important, uh, uh, factor to maintain a miracle.

Announcer: You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong organization, the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world.

Each week, we bring you stories of hope, real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health. Now here's your host, stage four cancer thriver, Jim Mann.

Jim: Today I have the privilege of talking with Dr. Francisco Contreras. He is the director, president, and chairman of Oasis of Hope Hospital in Tijuana, Mexico.

How you doing, Dr. Contreras?

Dr.Contreras: Doing very well, thank you very much.

Jim: Yes, I've heard a lot about you and your center and, uh, I, I can't believe I've not met you yet, but, uh, I'm, I appreciate this. And I, and I know you have a new book, The Art and Science of Undermining Cancer. Is that your newest?

Dr.Contreras: That is correct.

That's the newest book, and it's, uh, written in layman's terms.

Jim: Oh, I need that.

Dr.Contreras: Gives you quite a bit of information about everything that is available for cancer patients so that they can make, uh, intelligent and informed decisions, uh, as to their cases and what to, what to, uh, expect and, and how to choose the best therapies available for them.

Jim: Yes, that's true, 'cause when people get a diagnosis, obviously they're filled with fear, and they just do whatever the doctor says. And if they don't have a doctor that sees the big picture, then they just go down a road of a lot of pain, and quite often it does end up poorly. Thank God for people like you who see the bigger picture and realize that there's a whole lot more to it.

You also have another book that I That I saw called Look Younger, Live Longer, which, uh, I like that one 'cause, you know, uh, when I met my wife, I was 30, she was 21, and I always looked much younger, so I had to... I literally had to show her my license to prove I was 30, 'cause she thought I was her age. And now she looks younger and I look my age and older, so people think sometimes I'm her dad, which is really creepy.

I might have to look into that book.

Dr.Contreras: Yes, that would be good.

Jim: Yes. I need to look younger again. Well, tell me, give me a little background on... You guys have been around for over 60 years now, right?

Dr.Contreras: Correct. And, and, uh, the origin of this was more philosophical than technical. Mm-hmm. My father came to the conclusion that the reason why oncology was failing, even back then, was, uh, uh, uh, for lack of, uh, philosophical, uh, uh, uh, basis.

And, and so he started his work based on two principles. The first principle was what Hippocrates, the father of medicine, said: First, do no harm. Because especially in cancer, the treatments tend to be a lot more harmful than the cancer itself.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: And the second, uh, pillar was what Jesus said: "Love your neighbor as you love your friend."

So we say here at the hospital, "Love your patient as you love yourself." And the impact of that is that we will never do something to a patient that we wouldn't do ourselves. And, and so those philosophical principles have dramatically changed the way a patient is treated. So it's treated with the therapies that are going to improve their quality of life and, uh, with therapies that are not going to be devastating for them.

Jim: Right. And I understand, uh, Doctor, Doctor, uh, Tony, he was one of the doctors there, right?

Dr.Contreras: He's our alumni, yes.

Jim: Yeah. I was just talking to him recently. He said you two used to play tennis-

Dr.Contreras: Yes ...

Jim: together. Who was the better tennis player?

Dr.Contreras: Uh, I think he was.

Jim: Okay. You're being modest, I'm sure. Okay, now I, o- my personal journey, you know, I, I was diagnosed with, uh, melanoma, stage four, and they told me I shouldn't live more than a month or two, which is very encouraging.

They put me on immunotherapy.

Dr.Contreras: Uh-huh.

Jim: Uh, Op- Opdivo, and I know when it does work, it, it works well, and, and it worked well on me, thank God. In two months, all the tumors shrunk. Of course, they kept me on it for two years.

Dr.Contreras: Yes.

Jim: But it took care of everything, and that's been, uh, seven years now. Um-

Dr.Contreras: Well, amen to that.

Jim: Yeah, I l- I like that outcome. I have friends that had the, uh, same thing, and their tumors doubled, which is not a good thing, or else there was no effect at all. So I know everybody is different, but, uh, they're gonna give me one more MRI coming up just to make sure everything is fine, they said, and then they're gonna close the books on me.

So I appreciate immunotherapy, but you have a, a whole department on immunotherapy, correct?

Dr.Contreras: Correct. Correct, and, and, uh, I'm, I'm very, uh, en- encouraged by the fact that finally the, in, in the oncological world, the immune system is being addressed as forcefully as it is, and targeted immune therapy, uh, for checkpoint inhibitors has proven to be very effective in several kinds of tumors, especially in melanomas.

So usually the combination would be Opdivo and Yervoy, uh, and the results have been very good. The, i- in fact, uh, for advanced melanomas and even early stages of melanomas that are not, uh, uh, uh, surgically resolvable, our recommendation is going to be checkpoint inhibitors, as you have.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: Um, uh, there, there's another, uh, area of immune therapy that we have been working now for almost 15 years, which is a, uh, the immunotherapy based on dendritic cells.

And, uh, uh, the mode of action is, is a little bit different than checkpoint inhibitors. So, uh, if you wanna look at it in a very easy way, uh, a checkpoint inhibitor is like releasing your foot from the brake pedal. Mm-hmm. And our immune therapy is like putting the, uh, foot on the accelerator. Uh, so whenever we can combine both, uh, we, we do.

It's, it's just not in our environment, it's not very possible because targeted immune therapies are extremely expensive. Um, so each one of the ones that you receive are around $10,000 every three weeks, every month. And so for most patients that's not possible, uh, because, uh, the insurance companies, if you combine with anything else, will not pay, uh, for those therapies.

But- Yeah ... uh, at any rate, uh, our immune therapy has been very, very effective, and our results have improved significantly since we started using, uh, these very personalized type of vaccines.

Jim: Right. Now, what, what, uh, what kind of patients do you like to see? I mean, is it just anybody with cancer, and they're full of fear, and they don't know what to do?

I mean, do you see anybody, or do you specialize in a certain area?

Dr.Contreras: No. We, we treat all cancers.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dr.Contreras: Uh, there are some type of tumors that respond better to one or other therapies. Uh, there are some malignancies that are extremely aggressive and, and so the results are not the same. It will depend on, on how aggressive the tumor is and how advanced the, uh, malignancy is on a patient.

Because when you hear stage IV, uh, uh, you, you, you, you get the idea that the patient is riddled with cancer, and that's not- Right ... necessarily true. Uh, a patient with, uh, cancer of the breast with one minute metastasis in the bone is stage IV. And a patient with cancer of the breast where all of the bones are involved is also stage IV.

So it varies, uh, dramatically on how truly advanced the cancer is on where the... o- on how the patient is going to respond. But for instance, in breast cancer, even in very advanced cases with massive tumor activity, our results have been very, very encouraging.

Jim: I do have a question about the, the chemotherapy, 'cause I know some people, you know, I've done a lot of interviews, and some people are like, "I will not do chemo no matter what," uh, just because the, the image that chemo has that, you know, it pretty much does more harm than good.

And in mo- in lots of cases that's, you know, that's true. But I know there are times that you do have to use chemo and radiation. Is that correct?

Dr.Contreras: That is very correct. Uh, there are some, uh, diagnoses where chemotherapy actually shines. Uh, in our environment, for instance, whenever we have a patient with even advanced lymphomas-

Jim: Mm-hmm

Dr.Contreras: uh, chemotherapy is the treatment of choice because the cure rate is around 93 to 95%. Uh, so, uh, that's what we're going to be recommending. The difference, uh, uh, here at the Oasis is that we support the patients in such a way that the tolerance and response is much better because of that combination therapy.

Uh, in leu- leukemias, for instance, also the best treatment is, is chemotherapy. Uh, then, uh, the other side is where we, uh, treat patients mostly with alternative therapies and natural therapies in aggressive tumors where we use low-dose chemotherapy as an adjuvant to our therapy.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: Because, uh- The treatment is like a race, and when a patient comes to us, uh, with a very advanced cancer, massive tumor activity, i- if, if you're looking at it at a race, you're, you're at the start line with the therapy, and the patient is already 100 meters away from you.

And so you have to level the playing field in order to give natural therapies a chance. So we use sometimes radiation or chemotherapy, uh, to, uh, s- as stumbling blocks to the cancer so that we can level the playing field. So that's another way where we use, uh, chemotherapy. And, and there's a third one where we use very, very low-dose chemotherapy to improve the possibility of the dendritic cell vaccine to work.

So, uh, the, the way that is done is that we use very minute dosages of a specific type of, of, uh, chemo that reduces the amount of T-regulating cells, and those are the cells that actually put brakes on the immune system, like the checkpoint inhibitors.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: So we- we're, we're gonna be w- working to increase, uh, significantly the activity of the immune system, but then we have these areas where, where, where they're going to be braked, uh, or they're gonna be stopped.

So we reduce the amount of those T-regulating cells so that the immune system can be more forceful in fighting the tumor. So there are several ways in which you can use chemotherapy, uh, to improve, uh, the outcomes of patients with advanced, uh, malignancies.

Jim: Right. So the difference between, uh, what you do and just the regular, uh, conventional doctors, and I'm not trying to, you know, talk bad about them, of course.

That's what they've been taught, and they kind of stay within that boundary. But ... 'Cause I had a cousin that was diagnosed the same time, and I've, I've told this story before, but, um, he was diagnosed with very early stage of, um, prostate cancer. In fact, they weren't even sure if it was cancer or not. They were watching it, and then they realized it was.

So they just chemoed him for over five years and told him it doesn't matter what he eats. In fact, they told him to eat more donuts to get his weight up And, you know, and I have no medical training, and I knew there was no logic to that. It doesn't matter what you put in there. And here I was, you know, with a much, uh, more advanced cancer

Dr.Contreras: And more aggressive

Jim: Yeah, and I went to his funeral cancer-free, and, and, uh, he's my younger cousin.

And, and it was so sad, but, you know, people have that mindset that, "Well, I gotta do what the doctor says 'cause they have the lab coat. They're smarter than I am." And of course they are, but I love doctors like yourself who, I mean, you're smart, obviously, but you see the big picture. I mean, you can use the tool of, of chemo, but then even if you do that and you do nothing else, it's just gonna come back and get you, 'cause there's something in your lifestyle, something in what you were doing before that caused the cancer to- Right

progress like that, right?

Dr.Contreras: And so one of the things that I tell my patients is that every outcome Uh, from better results to complete remission is a miracle. And miracles need to be maintained.

Jim: Right.

his miracle was not good enough. Uh, uh, so miracles need to be maintained. And, and one of the ways is to reduce the possibility of this tumor taking advantage of, of elements that, that, that make the tumor grow and proliferate. And diet plays a ma- plays a major, major role in that. And one of the reasons why in America 50% of the population will develop cancer in their lifespan is because of the lifestyle.

So changing that lifestyle is a very important, uh, uh, factor to maintain a miracle.

Jim: Right. I saw on your website you have a lot of, uh, stories from different patients. Are there any that kind of stand out? Or maybe a recent one that came to you and they were... had no hope from other doctors and things just turned around there at your hospital?

Dr.Contreras: Oh, yes. Uh, uh, in fact, just, uh, very recently, we, we saw a patient that was sent home to die in three months. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we just saw him for, for their fifth year of remission, completely tumor-free. And so at five years we graduate our patients. They no longer need to come to us. They need to maintain, uh, uh, uh, the, their, their home protocol, uh, for life, uh, but we don't need to actually administer the therapy anymore.

So those... w- we see many of those miracles, and we praise God, uh, uh, for them because we're good, but not that good. Uh, so, uh, we have many, many cases like that. And but there are o- other types of, of miracles. So we... I saw, um, a, a patient, uh, uh, last month, uh, where, where she was just with, with massive tumor activity.

And I was telling her, "You know, the possibilities are there. We're gonna fight for you, and, and God can help." She said, "Oh, God has already helped me." So I said, "Explain to me." "Well, you know, I've, I, I've been dealing with a daughter that has been an addict for many, many years. And, uh, when I was diagnosed with cancer and I was told that I was gonna die in a few months-" Now my, my, my daughter is sober because she told me that she could not bear the, the thought of, of the mother dying while she was still in drugs.

And she says, "So all things come together for good. God used this, and now my daughter is free of, of drugs, and, and I'm, I'm just hoping for God to do whatever he wants to do with me." But the miracle has already happened.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: And, and so there's, there's many ways to look at good outcomes, uh, because God is going to use these, uh, problems and, and the disease.

Um, all things come together for good, lastly. Uh- Yes ... and so we have a- also testimonies like that. Another one that touched me in a tremendous way, uh, the mother brought a son around 45 in a very, very advanced case. Uh, and, and we knew from the beginning that the... It was gonna be very difficult for us to, to help this person.

And I arrive one morning, and the mother, you know, was telling me that the son passed away, and I was... And, and so I was, you know, sad about this. And she said, "But, but listen to the last words of my son. He said, 'I, I came here looking for hope, and I found Jesus.'"

Announcer: Hmm.

Dr.Contreras: And, and, and so we, we are very blessed in, in, in, in many ways in God how uses us to, to bless other people.

Um, so, uh, it, it, it's just difficult to, to explain, but, but God is with every patient, and God is good, and God is good all the time.

Jim: Yeah. Jesus, that's the ultimate hope. So it's a that's a good find right there.

Dr.Contreras: Yes, yes.

Jim: I know lots of people, they talk about, um, Oasis of Hope and then Hope4Cancer, and they get 'em, they get 'em confused.

They go, "That, that place in Mexico. You know, I think I'm gonna go down there, but..." And both great places, of course. Um, what, what can, can someone expect when they come to your place? W- how, how do you run them through the process?

Dr.Contreras: Well, I, I think that the, what separates us from, uh, everybody else, uh, here in Tijuana, there's, there's a number of clinics, and I can tell you that most of them are our alumni, um, is, is first that we have, uh, oncologists, actual oncologists and staff- Uh-huh

where most of the other doctors are general doctors with a lot of experience.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: But still having studied oncology, you, you can then see both worlds and, and then determine what is the best for a patient. That's number one. Number two, we're, we're, we're a full-fledged hospital. And, and so we can treat, you know, many complicated cases, or cancer patients can get complicated very easily- Mm-hmm

and we are able to take care of them. And thirdly, uh, we have a very, very sophisticated immune, uh, uh, laboratory or immunological laboratory that enables us to, to prepare very personalized therapies for our patients, vaccines that are specific for that patient and specific for their tumor So, um, uh, our patients here can expect to have everything in-house available for them.

The other thing that I think that is very important, and, and it's not, uh, uh, available in many clinics, is that for us providing, uh, physical resources to cancer patients is not sufficient. Cancer patients have a tremendous need in the spiritual and the emotional realm. So we provide our patients with spiritual and emotional resources on a daily basis, uh, where, where unashamedly we present the person of Jesus Christ to them, and, uh, we have devotionals every day for our patients, uh, with music and prayer, um, testimonies.

Um, so I think that is really what separates us from, from ev- everybody else.

Jim: Yeah. Wow, it's like a church there.

Dr.Contreras: Yes. Yes. In fact, uh, we probably have more conversions than many of the churches that are nearby- ... on a monthly basis.

Jim: Now, now are you in Mexico because there's so many things that you can do there that you can't do in the States, or are you in Mexico 'cause that's just where you live?

Dr.Contreras: Well, that's where I live. Yes. And, and it's true that we can do many things, uh, here that cannot be done in, in America. Uh, and that's why so many patients come, uh, to us. Uh, but having said that, uh, we are abiding by Mexican law.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Dr.Contreras: And, uh, we have established over the 60 years a good relationship with our authorities because we do everything above board, and everything that we do has a tremendous amount of scientific support behind it.

Um, and, and so we, we are respected, uh, uh, very much by our authorities. And because of the work that we've done over so many years, w- we have gained respect, um, worldwide, uh, for the type of work that we do.

Jim: Wow. I want you to speak to, uh, something that I didn't realize until I got my own, my own diagnosis.

You know, and I never thought all this has to do, uh, with anything, but- Over the period of interviews that I've done, the mental attitude of a patient is so powerful. In fact, some people put it as like the number one thing in their healing process. Can you speak to that?

Dr.Contreras: Yes. Uh, I find that in most, in most cases, the, the biggest enemy is the patient itself, your, your own mind.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: And, uh, you know, the Bible talks a lot about how powerful our mind can be and how powerful our words can be. And, and so one of the things that I find very distressing is how doctors put the seed of death in the patients.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr.Contreras: And the patient says, "Well, the doctor is the authority. They know I'm dead."

You know? Yeah. And it's very difficult to bring them out of that, uh, uh, uh, position, and many patients actually die because a doctor told them that they were gonna die. Uh, so that's why I'm, I'm telling you that patients need a tremendous amount of emotional and spiritual support, because life is about responses, and we respond emotionally.

And our, our, you know, it's... Everybody has heard that emotions can be positive or negative. Mm-hmm. The truth is that emotions can be functional or dysfunctional And, and you will respond emotionally based on your spiritual fortitude.

Announcer: Mm-hmm.

Dr.Contreras: Right? Because if, if I have Christ in my heart and I know that I'm gonna be going to heaven, well, for, you know, for to me to life, uh, uh, for to me to live is Christ and to die is gain.

So no matter what, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be better. Right. Yeah. And, and so that, uh, takes the fear away and allows you, and s- you actually set yourself up for miracles. Uh, because the stronghold of cancer is fear. And if you have no fear, well, it's like- Mm ... the cancer saying, "Man, it's no fun being in this person anymore.

I'm gonna go, go s- go someplace else." Right. And I'm convinced that because, uh, we, we, we, uh, put so much effort in providing our patients with spiritual resources that we have a tremendous amount of miracles.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: Basically miracles. And, and so I, I can, I can tell you, uh, very openly that our results are much better than anybody else because of those miracles.

Jim: Yeah. If you have a biblical mindset, then y- you think positive. There's nothing negative about the Bible.

Dr.Contreras: Yes.

Jim: Yeah. That's one thing, it... When I had my diagnosis, of course, I was actually at Disney World when I got the call, which is, you know, not a good combination there. But of course, immediately filled with fear 'cause you think your life is over.

Uh, especially the way they presented it to me. They seemed- Yeah ... very concerned. I thought, "Oh, maybe I should be more concerned." But, but it was from that exact day on that I had all these, these God moments, I guess you could say, that He just let me know that He was totally aware of it, and He's got, He's got it taken care of.

And the fear just left me, and I'm like, "Wow, even if I did die, you know, this week, I know where I'm going. It's gonna be better for me." I'll miss... You know, I don't wanna leave my family, of course, but still, I know when I get to heaven, I'll be like, "Okay, I'm fine with this." You know? They'll be here soon enough.

And then my mindset changed and, and again, I didn't know anything about the mindset. I just thought, you know, I'm a happy guy, so that's just the way I am. But I think that helped a lot in my healing.

Dr.Contreras: Oh, yes.

Jim: So yeah. And

Dr.Contreras: for sure. There's many studies that show that positive patients are gonna fare much better than negative ones.

There's n- That, that's already proven beyond- Yeah ... any, any doubt. Uh, but when you, when you actually provide spiritual resources to pe- Even negative patients w- will come to the conclusion that, you know, ev- everything is in God's hands-

Jim: Yeah ...

Dr.Contreras: and everything is gonna be the will of God, no matter what

Jim: Right

Dr.Contreras: a- a- and so that releases that fear.

Jim: Yes. Excellent. It always sounds better when a doctor says it. And you have a lab coat on right now, so obviously you know what you're talking about.

Dr.Contreras: Well, God knows what he's talking about and-

Jim: Yeah ...

Dr.Contreras: and we just allow God to do his thing.

Jim: That's right. Well, what do you, what do you see coming down the road?

Anything new you wanna talk about or you wanna let us know about? Well,

Dr.Contreras: I, I think that, you know, the, the, the advent, uh, and development of new techniques to prepare dendritic cell vaccines is a thing of the future. Going into what is called CAR T-cells. CAR T-cells are, are a lot more complicated. They're, they're quite effective, and they're out of reach, uh, because one treatment is about ho- $450,000-

Jim: Wow

Dr.Contreras: in America. And I think that in about a year, a year and a half we'll be Uh, uh, ready to produce CAR T-cells in our laboratory at a cost of around $50,000, uh, per therapy, which is still very expensive- Mm ... but they're, they're, you know, it's, it, they're gonna be more available to many, many patients. And, and so that's one of the new things.

Another thing that is more practical and, and, and, uh, that, uh, most patients can take advantage of is that we're gonna be able to prepare, instead of one vaccine per time, six or 10 vaccines. So that's gonna bring down the cost of dendritic cell vaccines tremendously, where we're gonna be able to, uh, uh, vaccinate our patients just about every month, uh, at a very reasonable cost.

And, and, and of course, that is going to increase the, the response rate, uh, because the more vaccinations you get, the better possibility. Right now, we're vaccinating our patients about every three months due to cost.

Jim: Right.

Dr.Contreras: Uh, uh, and, and so once we, once we have that available to patients, um, you know, more patients are gonna be eligible to vaccinate, uh, more often, and I'm, I'm convinced that our, our, uh, results are going to improve significantly.

Jim: That's exciting. I know my oncologist, he's, he's excited about all kinds of stuff, uh, 'cause he's, he seems to be on the cutting edge of stuff, which is really strange, 'cause, you know, I thought he was just a regular oncologist. But, you know, he's talking about diet and all the other things, and, and he's not a big advocate of, uh, of chemo, you know, by itself.

Dr.Contreras: Correct.

Jim: Of course, the things he's talking about are way over my head, so he might have been talking about that too. I don't know. But I'm, I'm gonna see him here in a month, so I'm gonna find out some more information. Maybe even write it down this time. You saw, you said those are CAR T-cells?

Dr.Contreras: Yes.

Jim: How do you spell that?

Dr.Contreras: Uh, it's C-A-R-T.

Jim: Ooh, I got it right.

Dr.Contreras: A special type of immunotherapy that has proven to be very effective, especially in lymph- in, in leukemias.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr.Contreras: Again, uh, uh, it, it, is, is a, is a therapy of the future, but It's just terribly expensive.

Jim: Yeah. Uh,

Dr.Contreras: so I think that we're gonna be able to bring that cost significantly down.

Right. And, and that's gonna be very helpful to, to many, many, uh, patients.

Jim: All right. Well, Dr. Contreras, I appreciate all this. I know you're a busy man, and, uh, if anybody wants more information, they just go to oasisofhope.com, and it's all there. There's a lot of information there. I got lost in it for a while, but, but I appreciate all you do, and thank you so much for your time.

Dr.Contreras: Thank you very much, and God bless you.

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