Jim: This episode is part of the Top 10 Tour: 100K Strong, our way of celebrating 100,000 downloads by revisiting the conversations our community loves most. New episodes are coming in September, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss a thing. Now, enjoy this episode.
David: Well, Cathy had someone to come up, uh, to her in the library.
We did a lot of posting on Facebook. I, I just had, like, this insatiable desire to write, and I started a blog, and I never thought I would blog and write. But I was writing, you know, long posts and just talking about what I was experiencing and feeling. And someone came up to Cathy and said, "You know, I've never met someone who didn't do what the doctor says, and so we're really curious."
So in some ways, it's kind of like pressure's on because we really hope and believe this is gonna be successful, and we hope others will follow suit within our little sphere of influence.
Announcer: You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong organization, the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world.
Each week, we bring you stories of hope, real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health. Now, here's your host, stage IV cancer thriver, Jim Mann.
Jim: David and Kathy Peters, thank you so much for joining us.
David: Yeah, our pleasure. Our pleasure. Glad to be with you here.
Jim: And of course, if you hear a little murmuring in the background, I'm not sure if that's picking up or not, but we're at the convention, the 10th anniversary of Healing Strong here in Houston. Of course, by the time you hear this, it'll be over. Sorry you missed it. We're here talking with people about Healing Strong and, uh, what God has allowed them to do.
So tell me, tell me a little bit about why you're here and, uh, what it is you guys do.
David: Yeah, we'd heard about the conference, um, as part of our healing cancer journey, um, that I started last year. In November, I found out that I had stage four prostate cancer. Ooh. So that was a, um, well, life-changing moment when we were there with the oncologist getting this announcement.
And part of what we did is just dive into how can we heal this naturally. And in the process of all of that, I can back up a little bit, but we heard about Healing Strong several months ago, and I just want to mention that we've been listening to your podcast- Oh ... um, as we exercise in the morning. Uh, we typically listen to a podcast, so while we're exercising our body, we're learning and exercising our mind and learning more about health, nutrition, and healing.
So we've enjoyed your guests. In fact, I think you interviewed Teresa Scott, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, I did. Yeah. Yes. That's how we heard about her, and we're interviewing her on Tuesday- Okay ... for a documentary that we're producing.
Jim: Wow.
David: So after my diagnosis, um, our distributor called us and said, "Have you guys thought about possibly documenting your journey?"
Because he said, "I understand you're going all natural." He said, "My father died in 2011 of cancer- He had been diagnosed in 2003, had been given eight months to live, chose a natural healing path, and lived eight more years. And toward the end of his life, he was starting to produce a documentary, do the pre-production research, and unfortunately died before he could finish.
So he asked us, in the honor or memory of his father, if we would finish the documentary. So that's how we got in the process of doing that, and then we'll be doing one of the interviews with Teresa Scott on, um, on Monday, just looking at mouth health and-
Jim: Right ...
David: how that has to, how that impacts our overall health and chronic disease and cancer.
Jim: Yeah, I learned a lot from her. I, I learned that I'm in trouble, 'cause I still have some metal in there that I gotta get rid of. I got root canals. I didn't know anything was wrong with root canals, but-
David: Yeah ...
Jim: man.
David: Yeah. Well, she, I already had a root canal removed, and my amalgams, which had mercury in them, removed, so Cathy is part of the documentary.
Um, they're, Teresa's gonna remove her amalgams on Monday afternoon. Wow. So we're gonna interview Teresa, and then also actually document her in action with, uh, this very important aspect of our health.
Jim: If you need more action, I'll volunteer too that she can-
David: Yeah. ...
Jim: fix me up here.
David: Yeah, no, it worked out good.
Jim: Are you excited about that?
Kathi: Um-
Jim: She
Kathi: hates the dentist ... well, I'm, I'm anxious to get the nasty stuff out of my mouth, and- Yes ... so, yeah. I mean, it's, again, those things have been in there for decades, and you have no idea that there's something going on in there that needs to be dealt with. And so, of course, what we're told is perfectly safe, so.
Jim: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's perfectly safe unless a thermometer drops on the floor and some mercury comes out, we have to evacuate.
David: Right.
Jim: Exactly. That's, that's always odd to me, but...
David: Yeah, when they do the biological dentistry, they remove the amalgams and the mercury, and there's, they're considered toxic waste that has to be properly disposed of.
And it's, I guess it's a fairly expensive process for dentists to do, and yet that's in our mouths, which just really doesn't make sense.
Jim: Yeah. The older I get, the more things don't make sense to me anyway, so.
David: Yeah.
Jim: That's just one of them there. Yeah. In fact, she pointed me out to a, a dentist in Greenville, South Carolina area where I live, and of course, they don't ever take your insurance, guys, it's- Oh,
David: yeah, yeah
Jim: but that's all right. You know? Spend a
David: lot of money on that.
Jim: Yes. So I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be looking pretty in a couple of years here.
David: Good.
Jim: Hollywood smile.
Kathi: There we go.
Jim: Anyway. So yeah, so you decided to come here. Of course, you were doing some interviews for the documentary yourself. So you're gonna be, you're gonna be sitting in on all the, the different, uh, talks- Yeah, we
David: came to enjoy the, the event.
Um- Yeah ... we've already interviewed Susie, uh, Griswold, and then Chris Wark earlier today. So we were glad to be able to do that interview and get that done so we can just totally focus on being part of the event here and meeting people and, and just enjoying and being blessed by all that will take place.
Jim: Right.
Kathi: And we have absolutely come to understand in this journey that you need community in your life when you go through this. Right. It, um, it- It's scary ... it c- it is scary- Yeah ... and it can create, a diagnosis can create, um, an instant disconnect with people because- Mm ... when you choose the natural route.
Yeah. We have three children, all adults, all married, and in the very initial stages of our journey- Each of them in their own way said, "Well, you know, maybe you should seriously consider what the oncologist said," because they were reacting in fear. They don't want David to, to die any sooner than he has to.
Right. So, and it's not that it
Announcer: affect- Which I
Kathi: appreciate. Yes, I, we appreciate that. They want me
Announcer: around.
Kathi: That's true. And the grandkids. So, but it's not that, um, they were against our choice to do this, but it has the ability of being, of really tearing you apart. Part of our journey has been that, um, you know, when you decide to go the natural route, there are, y- your, your options are myriad.
And we, I went, we came home from the oncologist, I sat down at my computer and Googled natural, natural healing for cancer, and one of the first things that popped up in my search results was Hope4Cancer. And I tucked it away, and we didn't do i- much of anything until we found out the extent of David's cancer.
And I said, "David, I remember that I had discovered something. It's a clinic in Mexico," and they actually have a booth here at, uh, the Healing Strong conference. Yeah. Um, but that's the, one of the avenues that we chose. And so we went and spent three weeks, started on the 1st of January of this year. We were there for three weeks, and we've been back for one subsequent visit.
And through that, we have developed a network of friends who are going through the same thing that we are. We have an What- we have a WhatsApp group, and we correspond literally every day- Oh, yeah, yeah ... with this group of people. So we understand the, the value of having people that you can pour your heart out to.
And so when we looked at the Healing Strong conference, it's all about connecting. And so we truly believe that just as God wants us to experience unity on every level, the unity that you can experience with people who have a common, um, I hate to call it an enemy, but a common, uh, journey that they're on- Yeah
it's, um, I think that's truly what God's heart is desiring for us, is that we connect with other people, and that together we show the world there's a, there's a better way.
Jim: Right. What made you actually decide to go a different route? I mean, your oncologist, he wanted the chemo, or?
David: Well, yeah, initially it was going to be androgen de- deprivation-
Jim: Yeah
David: hormones, and then, uh, radiation was- Okay ... the poten- uh... But yeah, we had-- Both my parents died from cancer. Cathy's dad died from cancer. Wow. Um, so it's-- we've been around it. Um, Cathy and I were already-- Cathy's been a health and wellness coach for years, taught weightlifting and, and exercise classes at the gym.
We ate really well. Um, so, so many things that we were doing were already right, and that's why it was kind of surprising. Well, how on earth did I get, you know, stage four cancer? Yeah. So, um, we had discussed in the past that if we were ever to be diagnosed, that we would just go all in with natural.
Jim: Right.
David: So literally that... It was on Friday, as I recall. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we were-- met with the oncologist, and that's when I found out that it was stage four, is I knew I had prostate cancer, but then they, they staged it on that Friday in November and literally Ca- Well, we-- first we cried ourselves to sleep that night.
It was a very traumatic night. But then first thing, we just dove right in. Cathy had already heard about Hope for Cancer. We called them, they called back, and we started the conversation, and then less than a month later, we were... Well, a little over a month later, we were there. So it was somewhat natural for us.
But then it's still, you know, when you're sitting with an oncologist at Fox Chase Cancer Center, which is one of the most significant one or probably the major cancer center in a Philadelphia area where we live, and the oncologist who's well-trained, well-paid, experienced, is telling you something, and you're basically not listening to them- Yeah
it's intimidating.
Jim: Yeah.
David: And you know, we, we'd read all about it. We kinda have our minds made up, but then you go talk to the oncologist, and then all these questions start coming into mind. So that's again, going back to what Cathy said, to be in community with people that are committed to this process, that are all in, you know, and listening to people like, you know, yourself and the, your story and the people you interview, um, it's just so important to be immersed in that because it's easy to become intimidated and, and not feel that- Right
or to feel you're alone when you're not. Yeah.
Kathi: And we really felt like the way his first oncologist dealt with us, it was a, it was from a, a position of fear. They were trying to create fear within us. Right. In fact, when he ex- explained to us how serious it was, he said, "You need to start this treatment on Monday," and this was Friday afternoon.
And for us, having walked with God since we were little children-
David: We were born Christians.
Kathi: Yeah.
David: No, but- That's
Kathi: right. Um, we just, we know that fear is not of God, and so we just wanted to make decisions not based on a doctor saying, "You need to do this on Monday." And so we just felt that it was worth taking the time to make sure that this was going to be The route that we would take because we knew it was going to be a tough one.
Because- Right ... it's, it's not something that you do for a month, and then your cancer's gone, and then you go back to the way you lived before. Yes. It's, it's a, it's a committed journey that you will be on for the rest of your life. Yeah. And that, that scares you enough to think, "Well, maybe it'd be easier to get chemotherapy and radiation."
I, I say that jokingly. Oh, yeah. But-
Announcer: Yeah.
Kathi: In some ways ... the passive approach. But what we found was there's a sense of empowerment- Mm-hmm ... that comes from feeling like we're, we're in charge. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, God, um, God holds the, all the cards in His hands, but- Yeah ... we, we wanna... We're working together with Him.
Yeah. So, uh, we feel very empowered by what we're doing. And the more we study and research, um, the traditional r- route, and I had studied that for probably 20 to 30 years, and that had been our motivation for saying, we're just gonna hit this with all cylinders on, on the natural pathway. Um, the more we discover and the more we research, there's not many answers that are, that were, um, confidence-boosting to us in the traditional allopathic- Mm
way of doing things. Yeah. So we feel very empowered that we're on the right track.
David: Well, and just looking out the window here and seeing all these people and, and sensing the energy here, um, and comparing that to what I've felt when we've gone to see our oncologist, and you see people waiting to go in for their chemotherapy.
Jim: Yeah.
David: And here they're about to partake in wonderful food that will aid in their health and healing, and then people are gonna go in and have chemicals dumped in their body. And, you know, we've had so many of our friends recently, and of course, once you've been diagnosed, then you start to notice how many people have cancer, how many are going through traditional treatments and suffering as they- Right
go through them, where even though it's been hard to give up certain things, it's been fun to learn a whole new way of eating and then watch my body or our bodies, since we're eating this together, adapt and really start to crave the things that are really best for us.
Jim: Now, are you on a, like, a plant-based diet, or?
David: Yeah. Yeah. We went... Well, first, first we tried raw vegan. So I was diagnosed in November. There was a, a local, uh, holistic doctor that we had already connected with, and we started doing IV infusions and ozone infusion. Um, and she suggested I go raw vegan.
Kathi: For 90 days.
David: For 90 days. Yeah. And- That was just, like, hellish for me.
Um
Jim: That's tough.
David: In fact, after about 10 days, it was putting so much stress on me and Cathy, I thought, "I'm just gonna not eat for three days." I read three-day fasts were good. And so about two and a half days into it, I felt... I was in bed, I could hardly get up. I just felt so bad. And of course, we told our naturopath.
She said, "Well, you know, you should've talked to me first because- ... you're supposed to prepare for those, not just decide you're gonna do it one day." Um, so we did that for a month, and I was losing weight. I went from 175 ultimately down to 145.
Jim: Wow.
David: Um, and I'm still just barely teetering above 145, so I lost-
Jim: And you're kind of tall, aren't you?
Kathi: Mm-hmm.
David: Yeah, I'm 6'1", you know, so I kind of related to Chris Wark's story because he was- Wow ... 150 or so and went down to 130, or maybe... I forget what it was, but he's 6'2". He's a little taller than me. Um, yeah, so going plant-based, I did introduce some, some meat, and of course, we went to some cooked food starting in January.
So we kind of... But you know, I, I'm, I'm glad I tried it. It was an interesting experiment. And, you know, we had to laugh at some of Cathy's attempts to make normal food. You know, like the mushroom soup, it, it literally, you know, looked like poop, you know? And the- Oh, appetizing ... the almond- Ooh ... almond crust pizza- Ooh, yes
was what it was. And it looked halfway decent, but it just tasted- ... awful. And I would, I would always say, "Honey, thank you for trying this." "I will eat it, but please don't ever make it again." Yeah.
Kathi: When that happened, I literally went around the corner and just burst into tears. Yeah. Really? So, 'cause it's a lot, you know?
Yeah. When you're... Plants take a long time to chop up. And I mean, we-
David: Yeah, she works so hard, and she loves to cook and loves to cook for me. And typically, I'm very easy to please.
Kathi: Yes, so but it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of work. I feel like I, I've exchanged my, my freewheeling life, and now I live in the kitchen.
Yeah. Feels that way sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But basically, it's, it's plant-based. Uh, per our dietary recommendations from Hope for Cancer, he can have wild-caught fish three times a week, so we typically do that. So but other than that, it's a whole lot of plants, fruits and vegetables. We have a garden, so that's, um, it's been a- Oh,
Jim: that's good.
Kathi: Yeah. Yeah. It's been a, a, a crazy change. So we'd always eaten... You know, we would buy our eggs from a little farm near us in Pennsylvania, and we had a, uh, a turkey farm where we would get our chicken. And so, um, yeah. But all those places have kind of gone by the wayside. And so anyway.
Jim: Wow. Yeah, that's definitely an all-in thing.
You can't just, like, uh, eat a few more vegetables and-
David: Yeah ...
Jim: the cancer will go.
David: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Kathi: Right.
Jim: You gotta spend a lot... If you don't have a garden, which I still don't have a garden, you spend a lot of time in the grocery store.
David: Yeah, we do. A lot of time and money. That's right. It's crazy. Our food budget has, you know, gone In fact, I don't even, I haven't really wanted to find out exactly how much more we're spending.
Jim: Yeah.
David: But, um, you know, we're self-employed. Um, so part of it for me came down as a business decision. Um, I add a lot of value to our company, so the company investing in keeping me alive, I think is worth it. Right. Because hopefully I'll be able to work for many more years and create more films with Cathy and earn, hopefully, a whole lot more money, so.
Jim: Experience cancer healing like you never have before at Hope4Cancer through their patient-centered integrative and alternative cancer treatments in Mexico. At Hope4Cancer, they offer a holistic approach, treatments that address the root causes of cancer and provide a personalized healing protocol.
Hope4Cancer Treatment Centers empowers all cancer patients to overcome the odds of their diagnosis, guided by their four core values of faith, love, hope, and generosity. To learn more, go to hope4cancer.com. That's hope, the number four, cancer.com. And that's what you were doing before you got the cancer, doing films and documentary?
David: Yeah, I've done it my whole career.
Jim: Okay.
David: Yeah, I picked up a camera in sixth grade and started making movies in high school, and went to film school- Okay ... and have done film work my whole career. Cathy joined me back in 2011 with our own business.
Jim: Right.
David: Mostly worked for other people, but now we produce, uh, long form documentaries, as well as a lot of short form films.
Right. So in fact, the holistic clinic that we do work with or that, that treats us, we're starting to do stories for their, for them to put on their website. Hmm. So we picked some of the patients that they've helped, and not only interviewed them, but like one, he had a lot of problems with his legs and knees, and he loved to play pickleball, was having trouble.
But through the clinic's therapies, now he's back playing pickleball. So we went out and got footage of him playing pickleball and-
Jim: Wow ...
David: so, so yeah. In fact, that's... I'm hoping we can do more of that, um, working with organizations that are into natural healing and start telling their stories because I think with social media, with podcasting, you know, 20 years ago, it was really hard to get information out there, where now it just can proliferate, proliferate and go viral.
You know? Right. If you have something that's good, then people start sharing it, and I think people are... Well, Cathy had someone to come up u- to her in the library. We did a lot of posting on Facebook. I, I just had, like, this insatiable desire to write, and I started a blog, and I never thought I would blog and write.
But I was writing, you know, long posts and just talking about what I was experiencing and feeling. And someone came up to Cathy and said You know, I've never met someone who didn't do what the doctor says, and so we're really curious So in some ways it's kind of like pressure's on because we really hope and believe this is gonna be successful, and we hope others will follow suit within our little sphere- Right
of influence.
Jim: Yeah, it is hard to go against the doctors, 'cause you know, they're like right next to God, right? Yeah. You got the Trinity, then the doctors, and then the rest of us.
David: Yeah.
Jim: So it's like... And, and usually family, like you said- Mm-hmm ... you know, they, they're scared you're doing the wrong thing and they're gonna lose you.
But for some reason, my, my family didn't seem too scared.
David: Maybe we'll get rid of them.
Jim: Let me rethink this.
David: Yeah.
Kathi: See our inheritance coming a little sooner than we thought. Yeah.
Jim: Oh, my goodness. And I, and I, I know so well that gut-wrenching cry you have to have when you first get the diagnosis- Mm ... and you think, "Oh, my gosh, it's over," and, and you cry like a baby or- Yeah
you're just shaking. But then right after that, it sounds like the same for you. Right after that, it's like, "Okay, God, you've got this. You know, I got the crying out of the way."
David: Yeah. Well, something that, of course, immediately after the diagnosis, people were giving us suggestion upon suggestion. You know- Okay
"You gotta try this, read that," and, and Chris Wark's name came up, like, everywhere.
Jim: Yeah.
David: So we immediately got his book. In fact, we got two copies. And I remember reading, I just like devoured it in a couple days, where he s- he said he was asked the question, "Do you wanna live?"
Jim: Right. "
David: And why?" And- That's where, you know, the emotions started to come because I really wanted to live.
Jim: Right.
David: And for, goodness, the first couple months I would cry over anything and everything. I just would be s- I was so emotional. Mm. Um, and in as many ways it was kinda like this good purging, just letting all of this- Yeah ... out, you know, what I'd had, was holding in, and just this whole new appreciation for my wife and for my kids and for what we do and for the world.
Um, an intense desire to increase, you know, as a storyteller 'cause the world is hurting and, uh, we feel our films and stories can help people- Right ... in that process, whether it be just, you know, spiritually or physically. So-
Kathi: But it's okay to cry and have a sense of resolve.
David: Yeah. So- It, yeah, it wasn't despair.
It, it was, it was just deep emotion- Yeah ... you know, that's just deep within the human part of my soul and the spiritual part that was just, I guess, you know, in love with this life. And as hard, as difficult as it can be at times, but wanting, wanting to, to be here and to, and to love and be loved. You know, I have a, a crazy vegan friend.
He has a, a r- a restaurant in our area, and he was one of the first people I sat down with. And he s- said, before anything else, he said, "Dave, love will heal you." He said, "Now you're gonna change your diet and everything else, but love is the core, God's love." But he said, "Let your food love you. Let your exercise, let your friends love you because that's what you need."
Right. "Your, your body's wounded." And he said, "Your cancer is a messenger." And don't shoot the messenger. You know, get to the bottom of what's going on because sometimes it is emotional. In fact, as pr- a prostate, uh, survivor, often that's one of the highest, um, cancers that's associated with stress. So.
Jim: Wow. I think it was Chris Wark who said this.
BC and AD, you know, before cancer and after diagnosis. Mm-hmm. Mm. I mean, it's kind of... It splits your life to- Yeah ... your perspective is so different. You know, I think I was 58 when I got my diagnosis. Okay. Wow. And, like, I thought, "Man, I just appreciate everything that much more."
David: Yeah.
Jim: Work is not as important.
David: Hmm.
Jim: We gotta work, of course, but I mean, just, you know, staying busy all the time was that important. Just calming down and learning to rest and connect with God is just... And then also facing death. You know, I thought, you know, they told me a month or two I'll be gone.
David: Wow. That's-
Jim: And, uh-
David: Can't imagine that.
Jim: Yeah. And y- and you think, "Well, okay. What do they do with my life?" And, and- Yeah ... I gotta make all these videos. I should've come to you. Yeah. Make all these videos- Yeah, sure ... for my kids, you know, for when they get married and all this kind of stuff. And, but then of course, it all turned out well. I'm a total different person than I was before- Hmm
cancer. I was just floating through life.
David: Hmm.
Jim: Um, you know, having fun in radio. But, uh, but still, now it's, it's a whole different thing. Radio is not that important to me. In fact, I'm not even there anymore.
David: Yeah.
Jim: Uh, doing this podcast is important 'cause it's giving people hope, uh, that are scared to death when they get the diagnosis.
Sure. You can't help but do that, 'cause you don't know what's coming down the road. Even if you do all the right things, you don't know, you know-
David: Mm-hmm ...
Jim: what's coming down the road. And, uh, wow, just outside of our little window here, they're talking to everybody. They're all
David: coming together.
Jim: It's, the cattle are moving in one direction.
Wow. But they're all happy still.
David: Yeah.
Jim: Happy cows. Yeah. Yeah. You know, once you've had the cancer and you've passed all that, it's, it's a blessing, the cancer. Hmm. Not the cancer itself, but the fact that you had cancer and it, it awakens you to all these things. Yeah. And of course, we've heard Chris talk about that, and, uh, James Templeton.
It's just- Hmm ... it's amazing. Yeah.
Kathi: Yeah. And one thing that we've told people time and time again is after David's diagnosis, his sister, who's a very wise, wise sister, said, "David, this, this is a gift." And so we, we, you know, some, in some ways, it's hard to look at it as a gift, but you, that's a choice that you make.
So, and it's interesting that David brought up this idea that, um- Asking yourself the question, do, do you want to live? Because there are some people, and having been a wellness coach for many years, there are people whose identity is wrapped up in being sick.
Jim: Right.
Kathi: So they can't imagine conversations without their symptoms being part of the discussion, and we don't wanna be that way.
We want to be the, as, as Chris calls himself, a, a cancer thriver. Mm-hmm. So, um, we're learning to, to rephrase how we say... We don't call it David's cancer. We talk about a diagnosis or whatever, but not owning it. So because we, um, when, when you ask yourself that question, do I want to live, as you described it, there's a shift that happens in your brain, and all of a sudden you start to commit to, to derive joy out of situations that might have just gone by totally unnoticed.
Hmm. So- Hmm ... I mean, God's, God's... In God's economy, He's, He's nothing but good, and so this part of... David says, you know, cancer is part of his body, so we're gonna, we're gonna work to eradicate it, but instead of talking about killing it- Yeah, beating it ... and having all those- Yeah ... we wanna heal it- Yeah. Right
because God is the
David: healer. Yeah, and I, I think that's another thing we picked up from Chris right away is I don't wanna talk about fighting cancer 'cause it's this adversarial thing. I talk about healing it because there's beauty in healing.
Kathi: Mm.
Jim: Right.
David: Um, so, you know, and just as it relates to this whole idea of having community and being with people, we were in, um, uh, at Hope4Cancer for three weeks in January, as Cathy mentioned earlier.
And so, you know, you... It's like being, you know, in a foxhole with people. Mm. I mean, you're in... Six days a week, you're in treatments and therapies, and you're getting to know one another. In the evening, you're spending time together, and you're away from... It's the first time we've been away from...
professionally for me to have been away from life ever that long. I would maybe have 10 days or two weeks, but to have taken three weeks. So just that disconnect of, from the real world to a world of healing was, was such a great thing. But the people we met, and we were... I was mentioning this to Sally earlier, or Susie earlier.
If... I feel like if I hadn't been diagnosed, I would have never met these people, and I literally... It's, like, hard to imagine life without them. So it's... I, I've, I said this before, that if, if someone came and said, "Well, Dave, you could choose to not have cancer, but then you would lose all these relationships and experiences you've had in the last nine or 10 months," it'd be a tough choice.
It really would. Yeah. Um, especially because we feel, you know, we're on the road to healing, and quite possibly because of the diagnosis and the cancer, I may end up living longer based on how we're living now, you know- Wow ... and changing everything.
Jim: Yeah, so how are you doing right now?
David: I feel good. Um, as I mentioned, I lost a lot of weight.
Jim: Right.
David: Had to get... I'm in the process of getting a new wardrobe. I still- I, now that it's getting warm, I'm wearing jeans again. I have one pair that fit me. But, um, I feel good. My PSA number ha- had risen rapidly last year. It capped at 49 when my therapy started, and then it started coming down to 25, but it's been creeping back up in the last three or four months.
I just had a PET scan where they looked at the me- metastatic areas, the parts that had lit up, um, my enlarged lymph nodes. Cathy can usually explain this stuff better than me. Um, but it seemed like there was improvement there. Certainly no, no growth, and it certainly hadn't expanded into bones or elsewhere- Right
in my body. So that was really encouraging. We've got to figure out the PSA, but we just had done a test called the RGCC test. Mm. Cathy, why don't you explain it?
Kathi: So it's, it's also called the Greek test- Right ... because that's where it's done, so.
David: Are you familiar with it? Have
Kathi: you- Yes. Yes. Okay. So Research- 'Cause that's, we heard about it from Theresa
Genetic Cancer Center. Yeah. Theresa, Theresa Scott told us about it. Theresa Scott told us about it. So, um, so-
David: In fact, I think we heard about it on your po- yeah, we did. We heard about it on your podcast when you interv- interviewed Theresa. Wow,
Jim: what a small world.
Kathi: There you go. I know. There you go. See what- So you
David: were the catalyst
Kathi: see what value you're offering? So-
David: You were the catalyst.
Kathi: Yes. So, um, you know, when your numbers start going in the wrong direction- Right ... you aren't... Y- and, and again, this is part of the struggle when you choose the natural route is- There's, there are, there are variables. You're just not sure. So what typically people do is they try everything, you know, the diet, the exercise, the supplements, and how do you know-
Jim: Right
Kathi: what's helping? I mean, you can watch your numbers go up and down, but you don't know what is specifically contributing toward that. So when David's PSA, which is the m- the biggest cancer marker for prostate cancer- Right ... started going back up, we realized we've gotta figure out why that's happening. So we remembered the RGCC, and a number of, of our friends from Hope for Cancer have done it as well.
And so basically they take blood, they put it on ice, and they overnight it to Greece. And, um, they
David: are- We kind of want to go along and hit the- Yeah,
Kathi: no ... eating aisles and- Not the truth. So, but they isolate- That's what it sounds- They isolate your cancer cells, and they basically, for lack of a better description, they drip all types of natural substances on those cancer cells as well as different chemotherapies and determine very specifically which ones are going to be working for you.
So we just had a two-hour visit with the doctor that ordered the tests last week, and so we know now that there are certain supplements that David has been on for almost nine months now that are having no effect. Yeah. So that's very helpful. We can drop those from our, our, his daily regimen, but then there
Announcer: are-
Kathi: Which is huge
which is huge. Yeah. So, and just the, the confidence in knowing. So, um, and for people that do choose the, the traditional medical route, it would tell them exactly what type of chemotherapy would be specific for their type of cancer. So that's not on our palette right now, so, but we have been given a list of substances of things that would be helpful for him, so we're in the process of figuring out which ones would be the most helpful and adding those to his regimen, and they walk you through it moment by moment and- Yeah
step by step. So, um- Mm-hmm ... yeah, so that's, it's a, it's a, a journey that continues. It's not just, okay, now we know what to do, and we're just gonna do this for time and eternity. It's- Yeah ... it's, uh, it's definitely a process. Yeah. And it's-
David: Yeah. Well, we've been throwing, as a friend of ours suggested, throw the kitchen sink at it, just do everything.
Jim: Right.
David: And spending a lot of money doing that. But now that we saw the number rising, we thought, okay, let's be more, a little bit more strategic, um, so we could, as we were told, you know, kinda give it the final blow, you know? It just needed a, a knockout punch.
Jim: Right.
David: And so we're hoping and believing this will be a big part of that.
Jim: Now when, when is this documentary coming out? I want a certain date. What's
David: happening? Yeah. Well-
Kathi: So do we.
David: Yeah. It's one of... I mean, part of, you know, listening to Chris, uh, his interview today, he was talking about stress. Um, and unfortunately between this and our other work, September just turned into a very stressful month.
We were two weeks in Austin and Phoenix, then back to Austin, then we came home for three days, then flew here, and we had trouble with the rental car last night.
Jim: Mm.
David: So, um, we're trying to not overdo it with the film. So as things are happening, we're documenting them. Right. And we're trying now... We just finished a documentary on William Penn.
It's g- released next in, well, on the 10th of October. So now we're gonna shift toward this documentary plus another one that we're working on. So I would hope that we could- Possibly by the end of next year. Um, but we have another documentary that needs to be done in July, uh, a long form documentary. So, um, so we're not in any really big hurry because it's, it's our journey and our story, and we wanna be able to interview some key people along the way that we keep learning about.
Like, we'll listen to a podcast, like with listening to Theresa. Oh, we gotta have her in the film.
Jim: Yeah.
David: So we reached out to her and she, um, you know, was super cooperative. Yeah, whatever I can do, you know, we'll interview. In fact, we're gonna go, um, to Geronimo Adventure Park on Sunday to go zip-lining, 'cause she said through her cancer diagnosis, she discovered how to be fearless because she was so fearful in her life.
And she said, "If I can face cancer, I can face..." I think she said she's done skydiving, she's done four-wheeling. And I s- I said- ... "Well, what if, how do we show that in the film?" And she said, "Well, there's an adventure park where you can go zip-lining." Wow. So we're gonna do that with her and her family on Sunday, um, as part of the film.
So we're hoping, you know, we, we want it to be clever, you know, and personal, um, not just- There are
Kathi: so many ... a straight up
David: documentary.
Kathi: Yeah, there are so many clever documentaries about- Oh, yeah, geez ... food and- Root,
David: Root Cause is so good ... oh
Kathi: my gosh, Root Cause. There are, I mean, it's just, there are so many documentaries that you can watch about this.
So not just cancer, but just- Right ... eating healthy and living healthy. But, um, yeah, I, you know, when we talked to Chris Wark about the possibility of interviewing him for the documentary, um, he said, "I'll do it if your documentary answers three questions or deals with three topics. Number one is, um, can I do it?
Number two is how do I do it? And number three, will it help me?" He said, "If we can create that kind of hope for people." And so at the point the, uh, that we are in David's journey, we're feeling very confident that, um, this would be something that we would say to other people, it's hard, but it's good. Mm-hmm.
And it's worth the effort. But who knows what the future will bring. So hopefully, hopefully next year, um, whatever the story looks like, we'll-
David: Yeah, and we'll probably start doing some editing ahead of time. Right. But we really appreciate all the cooperation from, from Suzy and yourself and The whole Healing Strong team here.
Um, 'cause, uh,
it's these types of things that we feel will bring it alive- Right ... versus just interviews with people talking about healing techniques. So we're, we're really... And, and so yeah, so when it comes time for the premiere- ... we'll make sure you talk about it.
Jim: Okay, yeah.
David: And get an audience. 'Cause we'd like to do, like, a streaming event where we'll show the film, um, and have it open, you know, globally.
We did that with another film recently, and it went really well. And then have, after the film, have, like, a discussion afterwards and get some- Right ... key people. In fact, maybe you could moderate that discussion. That we would, we would, uh, record on Zoom, and then that would be part of the package. People would get a ticket to watch the film, and then the discussion afterwards.
And possibly some other things, you know, like a A
Jim: Zip lining ...
David: fr- zip lining
Jim: Yes.
David: Or a free trip to Healing Strong Conference.
Jim: That's right. Yeah, I think I'm free that week, so yeah. Yeah. We can do that. Yeah. Well, hey, I figured out what they're doing. They were saying grace, and now they're all eating.
David: They're all in line.
Oh. In queue.
Kathi: Well, they better, they better leave some for us.
Jim: Yeah, the line's too long anyway, so.
Kathi: Yeah, I know. Well, we can tell them we're VIPs and we need to get in line first.
Jim: Yeah, that's right. Exactly.
David: Well. We know Jim. Oh,
Jim: great. Jim who? Well, David and Cathy, I appreciate that. It was good to meet you all.
Yeah. And, uh, it's very interesting. I can't wait for that documentary to come out. November 28th of, uh- Oh, yeah.
David: Well, you're gonna pin us down, aren't you? That's
Jim: right.
David: Well, we do work better with deadlines. So when it comes that time, we'll call you and say- Okay ... "Jim, we need a deadline," and you can give us a deadline.
All right. And we'll meet it.
Jim: I'll do it. All right. Well, thank you so much, and I'm glad you guys are here, and, uh, be encouraged by all the speakers, uh, that are gonna be here. Yeah. And, uh, thank you so much for being part of the podcast.
David: Yeah, our pleasure. Thank you very much.
Kathi: And thank you for what you do.
You- Yeah ... truly bring hope into people's lives. Yeah. It's worth listening, and, and, uh, we've, we've been so blessed by what you do. So, um, us, us cancer diagnose- diagnoses people are- ... looking for- To coin a phrase ... looking... What's that?
David: To coin a phrase. To
Kathi: coin a phrase. There we go. Yes, yes. Are, are looking for, we're looking for information, so.
Yeah. And yours has been very helpful. And, and
David: as we exercise in the basement and listen to your podcast, we will think of this moment.
Kathi: Yes.
Jim: All right. You'll be exercising to yourself pretty soon.
David: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Uh, boy, would we have-
Kathi: Oh, that would be odd.
David: Would we be able to listen to ourselves? I think we did pretty good, so.
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