Business Systems & Strategies, SEO, & Storytelling w/Colie James

Today we talk about the importance of effectively managing leads that come in through SEO, with an emphasis on using a system to manage these leads.

Colie James is a  "Workflow & Automations Guru" and the host of the Business-First Creatives podcast.

Connect with Colie, aka "Dubsado Systems Fairy Godmother":
IG
Linkedin
"Love Your Leads" Free Training

1. Colie shared practical ways to set up a system for your business.

• Automate client booking through Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems like Dubsado and HoneyBook.
• You need for a system to handle leads generated from effective SEO practices.
• Automating consultation calls and bookings ultimately saves time and money.

2. The importance of clarity and confidence selling services.

• Use local SEO keywords.
• Explain the uniqueness of your services
• Google search your own business and see how well you rank for business name.

3. Align the front end (SEO and marketing) to the back end (client experience).

• Use storytelling in blogs to attract potential clients.
• Use blogs and strategic social posts to give insights into your sessions.
• Focus on blogs, not pages on your website when you want to target Local SEO keywords.

Connect w/ B: YouTube, Website, LinkedIn, Instagram

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Transcript

Simple and Smart SEO Show Podcast Transcript

brittany herzberg: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Simple and Smart SEO Show where today we have Colie James with us. 

brittany herzberg: And I actually really love what you put on your, the intake form sheet thingy majigger. 

brittany herzberg: Where you said Systems Fairy Godmother.

brittany herzberg: I want to talk more about this. 

brittany herzberg: And Crystal's here. Say hi, Crystal. 

crystal waddell: Hi guys! 

brittany herzberg: So, let's get into the conversation. I know that we have a few little things that we want to talk about. 

brittany herzberg: But tell us a little bit more about your backstory. 

brittany herzberg: Because it involves photography and systems. 

brittany herzberg: And two websites and we were just talking about it.

colie james: Yeah. 

colie james: Hey, I'm Colie James. 

colie james: I am your Dubsado Systems Fairy Godmother. For anyone who needs one. 

colie james: But at the beginning of my journey to being an entrepreneur, I started my photography business in 2012. 

colie james: And I started that business because I had recently become a mother. 

colie james: And I did not want to return to my former life of a college professor.

colie james: And so I was like, okay, what can I do to not have to go back and work for someone else? 

colie james: Cause I don't really like being told what to do. 

colie james: That's just a little secret about myself. 

colie james: But [00:01:00] I thought about becoming a real estate agent. 

colie james: I thought about opening my own daycare center, but I had always really loved photography.

colie james: And so I was like, okay, I'm going to get really serious about this and see if I can make it a business. 

colie james: And so I've done that since 2012 and then in 2020. 

colie james: So, like beginning of the pandemic guys I went on one of my business besties podcast. 

colie james: It's called This Can't Be That Hard. 

colie james: And she brought me on as like a systems CRM expert.

colie james: And so we had this conversation. 

colie james: And at that point I was not setting up systems for anybody. 

colie james: I was only doing it for like my business photography coaching people like I wasn't doing it as a standalone service. 

colie james: And we hit stop on the recording and I was like, Oh, my God, this -this is what I'm going to do now. 

colie james: By the end of the year, I had a course. 

colie james: Which was immediately followed by Dubsado VIP days, where I will set your entire system up for you.

colie james: And it just morphed into this thing. 

colie james: And now, whereas [00:02:00] my business was originally like 50, 50. 

colie james: When I started offering systems, now it's definitely like 75% systems, 25% photography. 

brittany herzberg: Oh, that feels familiar because I went from, I don't know if we even talked about this, but I went from full time massage. 

brittany herzberg: So again, around 2020, 2021 is when I officially launched myself as a copywriter. 

brittany herzberg: But then it was a little more 50 50.

brittany herzberg: And now I'm a hundred percent copywriting because we're still trying to figure out where we want to live. 

brittany herzberg: And when you transfer fun fact, massage therapist, when you transfer your license to Connecticut, you have to know what town you're going to be in. 

colie james: Oh, wow. 

brittany herzberg: And I don't, cause the rates are like all over the place, but I'm excited.

brittany herzberg: This is so cool. 

crystal waddell: This is so cool. 

crystal waddell: I love systems and I have to make a comment here really quick. 

crystal waddell: It must have been somewhere around 2021, where I realized like all my systems and workflows were completely busted. 

crystal waddell: And now they're only slightly busted, but they were completely busted.

crystal waddell: And then I watched the guy from Dubsado do these trainings. 

crystal waddell: And I was like, That's it [00:03:00] right there. 

crystal waddell: Like he was connecting all these dots. 

crystal waddell: So I just fell in love with Dubsado, but still the actual putting it all together. 

crystal waddell: Still feels a little hard for me. 

crystal waddell: So that's definitely something I'm loving that you're here to maybe talk about a little bit.

crystal waddell: Because yeah, systems make everything so much easier, but they're just so hard sometimes that it feels like to get them off the ground.

colie james: That's true. 

colie james: And you're talking about Cameron Macbeth, shout out to Cameron. 

colie james: He is super awesome. But one thing that I want to make a shout out to in case you didn't know it. 

colie james: Is they also do user hosted webinars. 

colie james: And I've done one, which I actually thought you were going to tell me that you had seen my webinar on YouTube. 

colie james: But it's specifically for photographers.

colie james: So that wouldn't be for you. 

colie james: But what I am going to do is just put a little shout out that if you have a specialty, if you go to Dubsado's YouTube channel, and you type in like "how to use Dubsado". 

colie james: As a photographer, for example. 

colie james: You'll see my user webinar, but you'll also see five or six others that they've done for photographers.

colie james: So, [00:04:00] for anybody in the listening audience. 

colie james: If you need help, definitely go to their YouTube and see if another user that does the same thing that you do, has done a video. 

colie james: Because then they're talking about specific features that help you do what you do best. 

brittany herzberg: And that's part of the hard part too.

brittany herzberg: I remember the training because you sent it to me I think I watched it like two or three times.

brittany herzberg: That was really when I was like, what's in my head? 

brittany herzberg: And how can I get it on paper and what are the actual steps?

brittany herzberg: Like for me, that was the hard part is like just getting it out of my head. 

brittany herzberg: Because everything has lived in there for so long and it just doesn't need to. 

brittany herzberg: That was an incredible training. 

brittany herzberg: But anyway, getting back to SEO. 

brittany herzberg: Before I forget, how do you explain SEO to somebody? 

colie james: It's the way that people find you on the internet. 

brittany herzberg: Sold. We're done here. 

colie james: It's whatever someone would type into Google to where if they typed this thing, you want Google to show them your website.

colie james: And I, we're going to talk about this more ladies, but I want your website to be what shows. 

colie james: Like not your Instagram, not your YouTube [00:05:00] channel. 

colie james: If someone's Googling you. 

colie james: Your name specifically, but also what you do, you really do want your website to be the first thing that it suggests. 

colie james: And not some other platform that you don't own.

colie james: That's a really good point. 

colie james: And even just this morning, I was talking with a, I had done an SEO packet for a client and she's how could I get my business name to rank? 

colie james: And I was like, this is going to sound harsh, but no one is looking for your business name. 

colie james: It took a long time before people were actually looking up Nike or insert any brand name, like they're looking for what you do.

colie james: Which is go back and look at the packet and make sure that that feels good. 

colie james: And that feels in alignment with what you do and who you help and how you help them. 

crystal waddell: And to stay with that analogy of Nike, they're not looking for Nike. 

crystal waddell: They're looking for women's running shoes. 

crystal waddell: Or running shoes or, cool shoes for school or something.

crystal waddell: It's really important to meet them where they're at.

crystal waddell: And then see where you can position yourself along the way. 

crystal waddell: I agree with you that your website should show up first. [00:06:00] Obviously that's the most ideal. 

crystal waddell: But I want to also point out that having your name show up in those other places is still good because 

colie james: yes.

Crystal: If you are dominating that search engine results page. 

Crystal: Say that somebody saw your name somewhere and they do think of it and they're like, what was that place? 

Crystal: Like collage something. 

Crystal: I sell, for all of your photography friends listening. I sell senior photo props.

Crystal: So hit me up, y'all hit me up. 

Crystal: But yeah, so I, if somebody remembers the name of our business, they might search collage in or wood collage or something like that. And we still fill up the search engine results page. 

Crystal: Because of our website, because of images on Pinterest. Because of Instagram. 

Crystal: Definitely because of my name on LinkedIn.

Crystal: So I want to encourage people still do those things. 

Crystal: But yes. 

Crystal: Love the fact that, yeah, above all else, let's send them to the website first. 

colie james: The reason that I mentioned that was because recently I was telling someone about someone's service. 

colie james: And I'm not going to say it on here because [00:07:00] it's a really bad look. 

colie james: But I gave them their name. 

colie james: And when they Googled it, that person did not appear like with their business name.

colie james: And it was her name also. 

colie james: But like her website didn't appear, even if you typed the name.

colie james: It was just a weird thing. 

colie james: A Google my business listing popped up. But it didn't have a website attached to it. 

colie james: That was definitely like a big fat fail. 

colie james: And so I guess I'm just saying like your website, if someone Googled your name or your business name. 

colie james: You would really hope that your website would pop up.

crystal waddell: Yeah. We do these website audits. 

crystal waddell: If you are a business. And you do what Colie just said to do. 

crystal waddell: And you put your name in search and you don't show up. 

crystal waddell: That is sign number one, that you need somebody to come alongside and help you show up.

crystal waddell: Because if you can't rank for your own name, there's something wrong there. 

crystal waddell: And we can help you. 

crystal waddell: We can help you fix that. But I think that's a great takeaway already from this episode. 

crystal waddell: It's go Google yourself. Have we said that? 

crystal waddell: Go Google yourself. 

brittany herzberg: Go Google yourself. Yeah. 

crystal waddell: [00:08:00] Go Google your business. 

colie james: I have definitely said that.

brittany herzberg: I like that it sounds like slightly insulting, but also no, please go do this. 

colie james: Yeah. 

crystal waddell: So I may be a little abrasive today. I'm hungry. I'm HANGRY. 

brittany herzberg: Eat your grapes!

brittany herzberg: Okay. 

brittany herzberg: So I wanted to talk about your photography business, Koli. 

brittany herzberg: And how you got that business to rank. 

brittany herzberg: We were talking about this just before we hit record.

brittany herzberg: So what were you doing well with that? 

brittany herzberg: And tell us a little bit about what happened. 

colie james: So, I know that like now everybody says word of mouth referrals, all the good things. 

colie james: But what you have to understand about the beginning of my business is that I live in Colorado. 

colie james: I've lived in Colorado the entire time that I was an entrepreneur. 

colie james: But we moved here and I knew no one.

colie james: Probably two and a half years before I started my business. 

colie james: But in that two and a half years, like I didn't meet very many people. 

colie james: I'm an extrovert, but I'm also introverted. 

colie james: So we didn't have a network here. 

colie james: And so when people kept saying, Oh, word of mouth is where it's at.

colie james: I'm like, yeah, but I don't know anybody. 

colie james: So that doesn't really help me. 

colie james: So I was like, no. [00:09:00] 

colie james: I knew from the start of my business that having myself found on Google was important. 

colie james: And, one other thing to note about myself is that I do in home sessions. 

colie james: Which were not super popular in 2012. 

colie james: Like they are now.

colie james: And so I didn't run Google ads in order to get found. 

colie james: Because I would have been getting a lot of people who were looking for like outdoor family portrait sessions. 

colie james: Instead of the documentary lifestyle type of work that I did. 

colie james: So, from the very beginning, I was like, okay, I need to be found on Google. 

colie james: And ads are not going to get me there.

colie james: So what should I do? 

colie james: I was reading about SEO, learning about SEO. 

colie james: I was constantly blogging. 

colie james: I was constantly updating my website. 

colie james: And by the end of my first year, I would say that 90% of my inquiries were coming from Google. 

colie james: And I was of course, paying attention to this as a analytics person. 

colie james: I was always in Google analytics trying to say okay. 

colie james: This person landed on this page and then where did they go?

colie james: And how long did they [00:10:00] spend on that page? 

colie james: So, I was really into the data. 

colie james: And I was really into making sure that I was being found. 

colie james: On what we would now call like local SEO search terms. 

colie james: I was doing all the things with all of the cities surrounding here. 

colie james: Because we've got Boulder, we've got Denver. 

colie james: But we've also got a lot of other suburb type cities in between. 

colie james: And that is where I would find the majority of my clients. 

colie james: So, SEO was just like where I put all of my marketing dollars and marketing time. 

colie james: If you will. In the beginning. 

brittany herzberg: And when you say you were blogging. 

brittany herzberg: Do you even remember what some of those initial blogs were that, that you were writing? 

colie james: I was blogging sessions. 

colie james: And I know that that's it sounds like a bad thing. 

colie james: But I have lots of words with my sessions.

colie james: I don't know guys. 

colie james: Like way back then I was one of the few people that was like putting words. 

colie james: Cause everybody just thought. 

colie james: Oh, I just slap up, a sample from the session. 

colie james: And then we'll be good to go. 

colie james: So I was making sure that I was using different local SEO terms. And I was also [00:11:00] posting things.

colie james: That later I realized got me good SEO. 

colie james: But I was really just posting them for like informational purposes. 

colie james: If someone inquired with me and I needed to explain to them how my services were different. 

colie james: And valued differently than like an outdoor portrait session in front of the mountains. 

colie james: I would write a blog post about it. 

colie james: And then I would send it to people when they inquired. 

colie james: But eventually those are the types of posts.

colie james: That got ranked high and gave me better SEO. 

brittany herzberg: Yeah. And it sounds okay, so you were doing some of the stuff that I really loved as a consumer. 

brittany herzberg: And, some of the stuff that I do now as a copywriter. 

brittany herzberg: So as a consumer, I mentioned to you when I was over on your show. 

brittany herzberg: That before I became a massage therapist. Before I went to school. 

brittany herzberg: I thought, I had the camera, I got the book, I signed up for the course.

brittany herzberg: And then the week before they're like, and we're canceling class because of lack of enrollment. 

brittany herzberg: And I was like, okay that kind of sucks. 

brittany herzberg: But I got to that point because I had followed Jasmine star. 

brittany herzberg: There was a guy, another guy, oh gosh, Cole James that [00:12:00] blessed photography.

brittany herzberg: Like, I used to go in every week, I would read about the sessions that they had dropped. 

brittany herzberg: Because they did exactly what you were doing. It was the story.

brittany herzberg: It wasn't just the photos. It was the story. 

brittany herzberg: And I absolutely love reading that. 

brittany herzberg: But that is what leads to sales. 

brittany herzberg: And something else really ingenious that you did that I do with my case studies. 

brittany herzberg: Is you highlighted why ? 

brittany herzberg: it's your differentiator, what makes you unique. 

brittany herzberg: So I just, I love that. That makes my heart happy.

crystal waddell: Yeah. I love that too. 

crystal waddell: And I'm surprised. 

crystal waddell: When you're like, Oh, I added words to my sessions or whatever. 

crystal waddell: You almost sounded apologetic when you mentioned that. 

crystal waddell: And I'm like, no, that is so genius for so many reasons. 

crystal waddell: I just think of it from the perspective of a product seller. 

crystal waddell: Because I do e commerce. 

crystal waddell: People are coming to websites to envision themselves in whatever it is that you provide, right? 

crystal waddell: So why shouldn't we give them as many opportunities to envision themselves? 

crystal waddell: In whatever it is that we provide? 

crystal waddell: For years I thought, huh. 

crystal waddell: I should [00:13:00] probably write a blog about how this person decorated this letter. 

crystal waddell: And I was like, no. 

crystal waddell: But it's like, what are people looking for? 

crystal waddell: When they're like first starting their search, how to decorate a wooden letter? 

crystal waddell: I was like, Oh, people get tired of that.

crystal waddell: No, they won't. 

colie james: No. 

crystal waddell: They will never get tired of that. 

crystal waddell: If that thing is what they're looking for, they're trying to eat everything. 

colie james: And now, we're talking about SEO. 

colie james: We're talking about blogging. 

colie james: But when you say that now. 

colie james: What I think of is like your possibilities in making like behind the scenes videos of your clients. 

colie james: Decorating those wooden letters. 

colie james: And putting that on TikTok for the people who use tiktok as a search engine.

colie james: I'm not there. I'm old. 

colie james: But you could do that. 

colie james: You could put it on YouTube with a lot of SEO rich words in order to get your work out there. 

colie james: That way you're writing the words, but you're also giving the people like the visuals. 

colie james: And I think that, If it takes somebody an hour to decorate their letter. 

colie james: You could play it at 100 speed. 

colie james: And you could get that all the way down to seven minutes or [00:14:00] whatever.

colie james: I think people would just think that that was fascinating and they would love to watch it. 

colie james: It's like those painters. 

colie james: Have you guys seen those painters on TikTok? 

colie james: Where they're painting and they speed it all up? 

colie james: People are obsessed with that right now. 

brittany herzberg: Yeah, they really are. I love it. 

crystal waddell: That's so great.

crystal waddell: Okay. So just even today I had a client send me a wonderful review. 

crystal waddell: Testimonial, whatever you want to call it. 

crystal waddell: And as you're saying this, I'm like, Oh my gosh.

crystal waddell: I wonder if they got any video. I'm going to email her back and ask her. 

crystal waddell: Because what they did was they took a 2023 that we made. 

crystal waddell: We turned the numbers into cupcake stands for their graduation party. 

crystal waddell: And so they put the cupcakes on them. 

crystal waddell: So now the cupcakes look like they're spelling out 2023. 

crystal waddell: And they sent me some great pictures.

crystal waddell: But I'm like, I wonder if anybody did any other behind the scenes? 

crystal waddell: So that's such a great idea. 

crystal waddell: And you're so right. And that is like, perfect for Tik TOK.

colie james: Yeah. 

crystal waddell: Absolutely perfect. 

crystal waddell: And people are searching for cupcake stands. Like that's showing up in Google search console as a search query. 

crystal waddell: As a search term. 

crystal waddell: And I was like, Dang, I'm glad I got those up this year. 

crystal waddell: You know [00:15:00] what I mean?

brittany herzberg: No kidding. Good timing. 

brittany herzberg: So, what is something that you find really challenging about working with SEO? 

brittany herzberg: When it comes to, as you said, visual artistry? 

colie james: Hmm. 

colie james: It's been so long, but let me just be honest. 

colie james: I haven't blogged the photography in a while. 

colie james: I'm not gonna say how long, cuz that would be embarrassing. 

colie james: But I don't really think that I struggled that much.

colie james: I think that. 

colie james: You know what, one of the problems that I had was way back then. 

colie james: The key terms that people wanted you to rank for were like Louisville, Colorado, newborn baby photography. Or whatever. 

colie james: And you always looking for like different versions of that. 

colie james: And there's a lot of cities around here.

colie james: So I made my keyword list very long. 

colie james: But I think that where I struggled was finding the ones that were not local.

colie james: And like figuring out which ones would actually bring me queries that were local.

colie james: Because I know you guys have had a Pinterest expert on the show recently. 

colie james: And the funny thing is I don't [00:16:00] find myself getting any good leads, or at least I didn't as a photographer. 

colie james: Because when my viral pins happened, they were all fresh 48.

colie james: And none of the traffic from Pinterest was local.

colie james: And so for the longest.

colie james: I just felt like it was a waste of time to do keywords that weren't local SEO. 

colie james: So I think that was what I struggled with.

colie james: Just, branching out from local words. 

crystal waddell: Okay, just real quick. What's fresh 48? 

colie james: Oh, a fresh 48 is just in the hospital. 

colie james: After you give birth, a photographer documents you before you check out. 

colie james: Which is typically 48 hours.

colie james: So it's not birth photography. 

colie james: It's not the baby actually coming out. 

colie james: It's, after. 

colie james: And I specifically worked with sibling meetings. 

colie james: I had a couple of videos the first year when I was still doing my photography for free to build my portfolio. 

colie james: My now best friend, who was not my best friend.

colie james: Oh my gosh. Drew was like 12 now. 

colie james: 12 years ago, she was not my best friend. 

colie james: But I [00:17:00] videoed them in the hospital. 

colie james: And her oldest daughter came in and met the new baby. 

colie james: And so almost anybody who watched that video was like, okay, Colie, I want that. 

colie james: So then I started to, okay, Pewter Valley, fresh 48. 

colie james: Avista Fresh 48, like all the hospitals with that.

colie james: And for the longest, that was really my business.

colie james: With people paying me for these sibling video meetings. 

colie james: That were just, even if you're not a mother, even if you don't have kids. 

colie james: You watch it and you're just bawling. 

colie james: You're like, Oh my gosh, like this is so sweet. 

brittany herzberg: It is. 

crystal waddell: I think it's really neat. 

crystal waddell: Because there's something I heard you say in there. 

crystal waddell: With the fresh 48. Then you said sibling meeting.

crystal waddell: That's what people wanted, was a sibling meeting. 

crystal waddell: So I think what we just experienced was that SEO kind of conversation that you have to have.

crystal waddell: To match that product that you sell. Which is the fresh 48. 

crystal waddell: With what people are actually wanting. 

crystal waddell: What they're wanting is to capture the moment that the children meet each other. 

crystal waddell: The sibling meeting.

crystal waddell: That's such a great illustration. 

crystal waddell: I am actually going to be presenting in [00:18:00] July to a group of photographers in North Carolina. 

crystal waddell: We're going to be talking about content planning. 

crystal waddell: So I'm like shoot girl, you're right here. You're right here in front of us. 

crystal waddell: What do you think would be the most valuable thing for them to walk away with as photographers?

crystal waddell: Because we've already talked about SEO.

crystal waddell: I already did a basic, this is how you do keyword research. 

crystal waddell: These are the fundamental technical details of SEO. 

crystal waddell: But if we're going to walk out of there with a content plan. 

crystal waddell: That's based on SEO. 

crystal waddell: What advice do you have for these North Carolina photographers? 

colie james: So I feel like now I have a different perspective. 

colie james: Since I have the Dubsado system side of my business and then the photography side. 

colie james: In the business world, we talk a lot about pain points. 

colie james: And meeting your clients where they are.

colie james: And what kinds of things do they need to know before they're ready for your services.

colie james: And I feel like those kinds of questions don't happen in the photography world. 

colie james: Because we just imagine everybody wants photos.

colie james: We don't think about it in the same way that business people do. 

colie james: [00:19:00] And figuring out the questions that people might have during the buying process. 

colie james: To cut them off at the head. 

colie james: I think is what would be most helpful in your content planning.

colie james: Sometimes it's really nice to think about locations.

colie james: But I feel like that's the one that everybody thinks of. 

colie james: Like, where should you have your family photo session this fall? 

colie james: And, of course, then you have lots of opportunity to plan around the different locations that you love. 

colie james: Maybe you talk a little bit about... Choosing to have a session in your home instead of outside. 

colie james: I can see a lot of avenues to go with content planning. 

colie james: But really people need to think about: the people that are hiring you. 

colie james: What questions do you think they have? 

colie james: Or what questions have they actually asked you during the booking process? 

colie james: That you can create content around? 

colie james: So that if someone asks you, okay, but what's the difference between shooting at this location and this location? 

colie james: You have content to send them. 

colie james: Hopefully on your blog. Maybe it's a Tik TOK. 

colie james: Maybe it's an Instagram. 

colie james: Wherever it is, you can send them that [00:20:00] kind of information. 

colie james: So, that not only are you getting like people.

colie james: Eyeballing your content now. 

colie james: When you post it. 

colie james: But in the future you're going to be able to refer people back to that content. 

colie james: In order to answer questions. 

colie james: In order to make the booking process smoother and more consistent. 

brittany herzberg: I just wrote down some questions that I've had doing my own photo sessions.

brittany herzberg: Being the person being photographed.

brittany herzberg: But you could even have an FAQ series that you do have blog. 

brittany herzberg: These are some common ones that I've seen. 

brittany herzberg: What outfits? Like what's good for an outfit? 

brittany herzberg: If you're doing a family. If you're doing an individual. 

brittany herzberg: If you're doing like branding. 

brittany herzberg: Whatever it is, you could easily do that.

brittany herzberg: Poses. 

brittany herzberg: People get so weird around posing. 

brittany herzberg: Everyone's I don't want to do it with my hands. 

brittany herzberg: Like even this weekend, I'm hanging out with family and two of us were like, what do we do with our hands? 

crystal waddell: You get a photo prop from Collageandwood.com.

colie james: That was not subtle at all. 

colie james: Let's be honest. 

colie james: But it's also really funny, Brittany, that you brought those two particular examples. 

brittany herzberg: I had more. 

colie james: Because I don't do outfits. [00:21:00] 

colie james: I don't do styling consultations. 

colie james: I don't do posing, because I am a documentary family photographer. 

colie james: So my content is more centered around why I don't pose you. 

colie james: What activities we will do so that you are not worried about how you are acting. 

colie james: Like, why it's completely appropriate to have an entire in home session in your pajamas.

colie james: Those are things that I articulate to people instead of the how to dress for your session. 

colie james: How to pose, that kind of thing. 

colie james: So I just thought that was interesting. 

colie james: You hit on two that everybody asks. 

colie james: But I specifically don't address those because that has nothing to do with my service. 

brittany herzberg: But that is your brilliance.

brittany herzberg: And that is what a consumer, let's just take me for example. 

brittany herzberg: Cause I'm a all over the place of photo shoots. I love them. 

brittany herzberg: That is what is going to set you apart. 

brittany herzberg: That shows your personality. 

brittany herzberg: That shows your style. 

brittany herzberg: That makes me feel safe and comfortable with you. 

brittany herzberg: Because I know what to expect.

brittany herzberg: I am the person that- Crystal knows this. 

brittany herzberg: I will like, type in the directions. And then I'm going to do the satellite view. 

brittany herzberg: So I know where I need to park. Because your girl is not street [00:22:00] parking. 

brittany herzberg: I cannot, if Daniel's not in the car, I cannot street park. 

brittany herzberg: So that's the kind of stuff that I want to know.

brittany herzberg: And by you answering that proactively. 

brittany herzberg: That makes me feel like I trust you just like instantly. 

brittany herzberg: So keep that in mind, people.

crystal waddell: These are things that I value so much more, like, after the fact. 

crystal waddell: Because there's been so many times that I've done things and I didn't know I should ask questions. 

crystal waddell: You know what I mean?

crystal waddell: It's like after the experience, I'm like dang.

crystal waddell: Like getting married.

crystal waddell: Or like having a baby! 

crystal waddell: I was really concerned about the birthing process. 

crystal waddell: And I was like, okay, this is how the birth's going to go.

crystal waddell: I took a class, we executed, we're high fiving. 

crystal waddell: We're like, yeah, we had that baby.

crystal waddell: But then it's oh crap, we didn't get the right car seat. 

crystal waddell: That thing is too big for our baby. 

crystal waddell: Now what are we going to do? We can't go anywhere. 

crystal waddell: We're going to stay here forever. 

crystal waddell: So, I wasn't even prepared for the next second after the birth. 

crystal waddell: That's how I roll. 

crystal waddell: These are good things to know is all I'm saying.

crystal waddell: It's like it's great to have somebody who's been there and walk you through it. 

crystal waddell: But okay, so you were talking earlier about local SEO.

crystal waddell: And so I have a couple follow up questions with that. 

crystal waddell: Because how do you [00:23:00] find local SEO keywords?

crystal waddell: Do you recommend separate pages for like different suburbs and areas?

crystal waddell: Like how would you approach that? What do you think about those two things? 

colie james: So if I tried to write a page for every suburb in the Denver, Boulder area. 

colie james: That would be so ridiculous. 

colie james: But. 

colie james: The things that I did back then don't necessarily work now. 

colie james: So, one of the things that I used to do was like adding tags. 

colie james: And they would be tags for every location that was near me.

colie james: You don't do that anymore. That's a no- no. 

colie james: But that's what I did back then. 

crystal waddell: Why is it a no- no? 

colie james: Google just doesn't like you adding all of those kinds of SEO keywords to your tags. 

colie james: It's like, ignoring it now. 

colie james: I don't have the data on it. 

colie james: But I could show you one of my old blog posts where there were like 20 tags. 

colie james: Like I would never do that now. 

colie james: That is not something that I would do now. 

colie james: But back then I felt like it was working. 

colie james: Because I was ranking on like page one for so many of our local suburbs. 

colie james: Now, I didn't have a page for each one. 

colie james: But what I would do. 

colie james: When I was [00:24:00] writing one of those informational blog posts that I thought was going to get highly searched.

colie james: I would not do all of them for Boulder newborn photographer. 

colie james: I would make sure that when I wrote one, that I was choosing a local SEO search term.

colie james: That I hadn't used on one of my other informational blog posts. So that I had the variety. 

colie james: But I also had a lot to work with. There are like seven or eight cities around me that I absolutely love to work in.

colie james: And because the majority of my business for a good three to four years were those fresh 48 sessions in the hospital. 

colie james: I was also writing blog posts for every one of those hospitals. 

colie james: So I focused more on blog posts, not pages. 

colie james: My main pages, I had one for Boulder and one for Denver. 

colie james: For every single genre, or type of session that I would do.

colie james: And then I just really used my blog posts to really talk about like the other local areas.

colie james: Like the suburbs of the two major cities. 

brittany herzberg: Oh, so smart. 

brittany herzberg: That's exactly what I was thinking before you even said it. I was like, write for the hospitals.

colie james: Yes.[00:25:00] 

crystal waddell: Okay. 

crystal waddell: So this fresh 48, I think it's so cool. 

crystal waddell: When I was in the hospital with my baby, somebody came there. 

crystal waddell: And was like, do you want to take pictures?

crystal waddell: I was like, Oh yeah, we do. 

colie james: Let's talk about that, Crystal. 

crystal waddell: Okay. Yeah. 

colie james: I want to talk about why my SEO really helps me. 

colie james: Because what Crystal was talking about.

colie james: There's Bella baby and there's Charlie's angels. 

colie james: There's a few, depending on where you live in the country. 

colie james: But what I want to say about my local hospitals is that my SEO is so good. 

colie james: People contact me because they think I work for Bella Baby in the hospital.

colie james: I think the last one that I got was three months ago. 

colie james: Someone was delivering at a hospital in Littleton. Which is an hour away from me now in my new house. 

colie james: And when she wrote the inquiry, she was like: they were talking about you on the hospital tour. 

colie james: And then I'm laughing to myself. Because they weren't talking about me!

colie james: So when I responded to her, I said, okay. 

colie james: This is what I do. 

colie james: And, you probably saw my information. 

colie james: You probably Googled baby photographer at Littleton hospital. 

colie james: I'm [00:26:00] telling her this. 

colie james: This is probably what you Googled. 

colie james: I was like, and I came up number one, but I do not work for the hospital.

colie james: And they were probably not referring to me on the hospital tour. 

colie james: And she responded and she goes, you know what? 

colie james: You're so right, but I love your work so much. 

colie james: And in this particular instance, I sent her to someone else. 

colie james: Because it's an hour away from me now, and she only wanted photos. 

colie james: She didn't want video.

colie james: And at this point, I don't want to drive an hour if you only want photos. 

colie james: There are plenty of people in South Denver that can give you amazing hospital, newborn photos. 

colie james: I only want to drive an hour if you want one of my films. 

colie james: And it was their first kid. 

colie james: I will admit, people value the films more for the sibling meeting. 

colie james: Than they do if they're first time parents. 

colie james: But that was one of those, you know what? 

colie james: I could say yes. I still charge a decent amount of money just for photos. 

colie james: But it honestly wasn't worth my time to be on call for a three week period. 

colie james: And then have to drive an hour there and an hour back. 

colie james: But. That is one of those instances where my [00:27:00] SEO is so good,

colie james: people think I'm associated with the hospital, even though I'm not. 

brittany herzberg: That is so good. 

crystal waddell: Yeah. That is awesome. 

crystal waddell: And I wanna say, wow. 

crystal waddell: Props to you for being so honest with her. 

crystal waddell: Because what a brand builder.

crystal waddell: If she's got friends that are closer to you, she's gonna be talking about, oh my gosh, I wanted this videographer. 

crystal waddell: Or, you should check her out because I know she's in your area.

crystal waddell: She couldn't come to me and da da da. 

crystal waddell: She didn't buy from you, but she's going to advocate for you.

crystal waddell: She's now become a brand advocate for your business. 

crystal waddell: I'm just drooling over here over these possibilities. 

crystal waddell: And the fact that you found your niche. 

crystal waddell: And you carved out these new things for yourself.

crystal waddell: One thing I saw just working with the North Carolina photographers was pet photography. Searches for pet photography. 

crystal waddell: So I was just wondering, what do you think about that?

crystal waddell: What are emerging trends for photographers who are looking to carve out their own niche? 

colie james: I don't know that I have any good advice in this area. I will say pet photography is really gaining traction. 

colie james: The funny thing is I talked about my films, right? 

colie james: So [00:28:00] filmmaking, and adding it into your sessions, is something that's really popular now.

colie james: And I've been on a couple of podcasts where people have asked me about my filmmaking. 

colie james: And they're always like, how did you get started? 

colie james: And I always say I was doing it before it was popular. 

colie james: From my very first session, I took video clips. 

colie james: Back in 2012. 

colie james: That is way before anybody else was even thinking about making family films. 

colie james: Now, they were really crappy ladies. My highlights were blown. 

colie james: I was using a camera. 

colie james: Which I know you guys are not photographers, but I had no control over the settings in video. 

colie james: All I could do was hit record. I couldn't change the lighting. I couldn't change any of it.

colie james: It was just hit record and go. So the video clips that I got in the beginning were like really bad, but. 

colie james: As I progressed, I got better. I started making full films. 

colie james: Because in the beginning, I was just getting a few clips at every session. 

colie james: And I was making them what was called a fusion slideshow. 

colie james: It's where you made a slideshow of images with music. 

colie james: And then you just throw in a handful of clips. [00:29:00] Just to give it a little, something special.

colie james: And I made my first film completely by mistake. 

colie james: I went to a session, I was with them for three and a half hours and they were teenagers. 

colie james: And I went to their martial arts class with them. 

colie james: And them kicking and all of that. 

colie james: There's only so many pictures that you can take of that. 

colie james: But the video of them doing it was amazing.

colie james: They also played instruments. 

colie james: So like I had a lot of really great video from that session. 

colie james: And when I sat down to make their slideshow, I was like, Oh wow. 

colie james: I took a lot of video. I could probably make a whole film out of this. 

colie james: I made a whole film. And then I never made a slideshow again. 

colie james: Every time after that, I took enough video clips.

colie james: But you've asked me, Crystal, how I incorporate video into these sessions. 

colie james: And what I have learned as a photographer is if something is happening so fast that I'm struggling to freeze it. 

colie james: Like kids jumping on a bed, running around in circles, hitting a baseball. 

colie james: All of those things that are a lot of action that you have to have a shutter speed of at least five hundreds of a second in order to [00:30:00] freeze it.

colie james: That's what makes good video. 

colie james: And so whenever I have a moment like that. 

colie james: And I've gotten at least one good image, I will flip over to video. 

colie james: And start getting video clips from different angles. 

colie james: And that's how I incorporated video into my photography sessions. 

brittany herzberg: I love that. 

crystal waddell: Yeah, this is just such a great example too, now, you did it. 

crystal waddell: You got started, and then through the doing, you found something new. 

crystal waddell: That you hadn't really considered before.

crystal waddell: And I think so many people are like, I gotta have this plan. 

crystal waddell: And this is what I'm going to do. 

crystal waddell: And da da da da. 

crystal waddell: And you know what? 

crystal waddell: You're not always going to know what you're going to do. 

crystal waddell: You have to start sometimes. 

crystal waddell: Even with keyword research, you just got to start somewhere. 

crystal waddell: And pick what you think is best and then do it and then reflect on it.

crystal waddell: And think, huh, how did that work? 

crystal waddell: How could it be better? Is there another opportunity here? 

crystal waddell: And I think you're just giving us like example after example of this. 

brittany herzberg: Yeah, you are. 

brittany herzberg: And then I also am realizing that that's what we [00:31:00] did with the podcast .

brittany herzberg: Is we just went for it. And we were like ,we'll do this.

brittany herzberg: We know, these four or five things are the basis. 

brittany herzberg: These are the foundation. 

brittany herzberg: And then we can build from there and figure out the processes and whatever. 

brittany herzberg: We even talked about it on the show. 

brittany herzberg: But I want to go back for a second. 

brittany herzberg: Just for a personal aside, the pet photography. 

brittany herzberg: Yes, it is a trend. I even- 

brittany herzberg: Crystal knows this. I have a dog. He just turned 16. 

brittany herzberg: We had this unique opportunity. 

brittany herzberg: There was a photographer in Raleigh before I moved up here. 

brittany herzberg: And she was, getting ready to take the photos. And it was like the night before. 

brittany herzberg: And I was like, my dog is about to turn 16.

brittany herzberg: She has two dogs. 

brittany herzberg: I wonder if I could ask her if I could bring my dog. 

brittany herzberg: Sure enough, she was like, bring him. We'll make it work. 

brittany herzberg: And I only had one image. I tend to show up as we can all tell, prepared. 

brittany herzberg: Of what idea I do have in mind for what I want to happen. 

brittany herzberg: And I try to make it in my head to be a little bit of a looser plan.

brittany herzberg: But I was like, there's one photo that I want and this is what it is. Whatever else that happens is totally fine. 

brittany herzberg: And she's okay. 

brittany herzberg: We were able to just hang out and do whatever. 

brittany herzberg: And it ended [00:32:00] up working out. 

brittany herzberg: Even though Jack was barking at like almost every single person that walked by. 

brittany herzberg: It's for sure a thing. 

colie james: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

colie james: All dogs are welcome in my session. I say dogs and grandparents. 

colie james: Please give them all to me. 

colie james: You never have to ask me if they are allowed in a session. Because the answer is 100%. 

crystal waddell: So, now you do Dubsado. 

crystal waddell: And you're super excellent about setting up these workflows for photographers.

crystal waddell: Do you do it for people beyond photographers? 

colie james: I do. 

colie james: But my messaging is all for photographers. 

colie james: Because it's easier to talk to them. 

colie james: And if a dog walker, a dog trainer, for example. 

colie james: Cause I just did a system set up for a dog trainer. 

colie james: If they want to hire me, they're going to hire me. 

colie james: Even if I'm only talking to photographers.

colie james: So I don't worry about that anymore. Specifically photographers.

crystal waddell: One of the things that we talked about at this session for the North Carolina photographers 

crystal waddell: was that SEO, if you incorporate the things we're talking about, it's going to work. 

crystal waddell: But guess what? That means that your phone's going to ring. 

crystal waddell: Or you're going to get emails. 

crystal waddell: And now you need a system. 

crystal waddell: And you need a way to[00:33:00] talk to your clients. 

crystal waddell: And comfort them and make them feel great about this experience that they're about to go on with you.

crystal waddell: And I think that's where Dubsado comes in.

crystal waddell: So I was just wondering if you could talk to us a little bit 

crystal waddell: about that. 

colie james: I like to say that what I do is the back end of your business.

colie james: Like your website, your SEO, your social media. 

colie james: All of that is the front end of your business. That's how you're actually bringing people to the spaces where you hang out. 

colie james: And you are nurturing them into inquiring about your services.

colie james: But once they inquire, that's where your systems have to take over. 

colie james: That's where you have to have a way to respond to every inquiry. 

colie james: You have to have a way to figure out if you're a good fit. 

colie james: Now, for some people, that means doing a consultation call.

colie james: I'm all about consultation calls. 

colie james: But if you go back and forth with every single one of your leads. 

colie james: Being like, Oh I'm available on these three dates and time. 

colie james: Does this work for you? 

colie james: They come back and they say no. 

colie james: Like the back and forth can go forever. 

colie james: And so if you can find a way to automate the scheduling of your [00:34:00] consultation calls. 

colie james: You will save yourself a lot of time and eventually money in your booking process.

colie james: On this call, we've got a Dubsado user and a HoneyBook user. 

colie james: It doesn't actually matter which CRM you use. 

colie james: They all have an automated booking process where you make the offer. 

colie james: They sign the contract. 

colie james: They pay you whatever amount of money you take to get them on your calendar. 

colie james: If you are not automating those kinds of things, you are doing yourself a disservice.

colie james: And if we're going to take one more step back towards the SEO. 

colie james: When your SEO works, it brings in the leads. 

colie james: You have to have a way to deal with those leads. 

colie james: And that's where your systems come in. 

brittany herzberg: Amen. We just went to SEO church. 

crystal waddell: Dubsado church. 

crystal waddell: But how do you set that up? 

crystal waddell: Like, how do you make a plan?

crystal waddell: Because I'm like, yes, I'm on board with that. 

crystal waddell: I know you're right. 

crystal waddell: So how do I know how, what goes where, in the system? 

colie james: You don't start with the tools. 

colie james: You start with a piece of paper and a pencil. 

colie james: And literally you are just writing down everything that you need to send your client.

colie james: So you have to send them the offer. 

colie james: You have to send them a [00:35:00] client questionnaire. 

colie james: If you use those, you have to send them a style guide. A prep guide. 

colie james: Whatever it is that you do. 

colie james: You just make a list of all the things that you have to send your client. 

colie james: Then you write an email to send them each one of those.

colie james: Then you think about where in the process you want to talk to them. 

colie james: In between the sending them the things. 

colie james: It just becomes this very beautiful list. 

colie james: Of things that you want every single one of your leads or clients to experience. 

colie james: And then you build your systems around that. 

colie james: And then, and only then. 

colie james: Do you integrate a tool in order to automate it or just make it more consistent.

brittany herzberg: And I will, I will double down, like back, you support you, whatever the word is. Cause I just, they are not coming to me today. 

brittany herzberg: That is exactly what I did when I went from massage therapy. 

brittany herzberg: I knew my workflow. 

brittany herzberg: And it was a lot of heavy lifting on my end. 

brittany herzberg: Didn't need to be, but I preferred it like that. 

brittany herzberg: And I had the client base where it was practical for me.

brittany herzberg: It was a little bit extra, but that's how I am. 

brittany herzberg: So then I roll over to [00:36:00] copywriting and I'm like, okay, I can't continue. 

brittany herzberg: This isn't sustainable. So what do I do? And what does it look like? 

brittany herzberg: And I did, pen to paper. 

brittany herzberg: Do, do, do, do, do are the things that happened. 

brittany herzberg: Once I figured that out, then I figured out the copy and pasteable things. 

brittany herzberg: Or the base messages. 

brittany herzberg: Wrote those out, got those drafted in Google at that point. 

brittany herzberg: And then at that point, I was like, okay. 

brittany herzberg: Where do I want to plug it in? 

brittany herzberg: Where do I want to use it? 

brittany herzberg: And for a while, I didn't have any kind of tool. I didn't have HoneyBook. 

brittany herzberg: It was just me and Google. 

brittany herzberg: And we were just like hanging out. 

brittany herzberg: And I had stuff already in there and it was like, boop, there you go.

brittany herzberg: So it doesn't have to be like this thing that you get overwhelmed by. 

brittany herzberg: And you start off with everything ready to go. 

brittany herzberg: It can be a little bit of a process and then you can call Colie! 

colie james: Yes. 

crystal waddell: Yeah, for sure. 

crystal waddell: I think so many times we do get it backwards. 

crystal waddell: It's Oh, there's this cool tool! 

crystal waddell: And one thing that has frustrated me about tools lately is.... 

crystal waddell: look, I don't have a lot of time to sit here and learn how to use the tool.

crystal waddell: Like I need this tool to save me time. 

crystal waddell: And sometimes I've been frustrated because it's like, Oh, I start learning how to use this tool. And [00:37:00] only to find out.

crystal waddell: This isn't the right fit for what I'm doing. 

crystal waddell: But part of it is because I didn't have the list. 

crystal waddell: And the process set up. 

crystal waddell: So as I'm trying to input my process. 

crystal waddell: Be like, okay, what's comes first, the chicken or the egg? 

crystal waddell: And I get confused about it.

crystal waddell: This is such practical advice that many of us don't do all the way.

crystal waddell: And I'm like, even thinking about myself. 

crystal waddell: I watched those videos. 

crystal waddell: I wrote this stuff down. 

brittany herzberg: And then what? And then what happened Crystal? 

crystal waddell: And then what? 

crystal waddell: Yeah. 

crystal waddell: And then I recorded this podcast three years later. 

crystal waddell: And it reminded me to go back and finish it. 

brittany herzberg: But you got there. 

colie james: So I am going to say that is why I'm going to refer you back to what I said at the beginning of this podcast. 

colie james: Using the webinars or the tools that the actual CRM provides you is great for like base knowledge. 

colie james: But if it's still not clicking for you.

colie james: And everyone come hire me. Shameless plug. 

colie james: But it's really not even about that. 

colie james: It is about finding resources for things that are [00:38:00] completely related to what you offer as a service. 

colie james: Because what I would tell someone to do in one service is not what I would tell them to do in another service.

colie james: And so as much as you can find help, whether that's free help on Google slash YouTube. 

colie james: Or it's paid help through someone who sets up systems for, their business. 

colie james: Getting something that's customized for what you offer as a service is how you are going to get the biggest return on investment. 

colie james: When you set up your systems.

crystal waddell: So what does that look like? 

crystal waddell: Like working with you. 

crystal waddell: Let's say, I've went through my own education on YouTube. 

crystal waddell: The YouTube university and, fumbled. 

crystal waddell: So I'm picking it back up and I'm trying to hand it off to Colie. 

crystal waddell: What's that look like? 

crystal waddell: What's it look like to work with you?

crystal waddell: We start with the strategy. 

crystal waddell: And I've got so many testimonials where people are like, Oh my gosh. 

crystal waddell: That was more than my systems.

crystal waddell: That was like a business refresh. 

crystal waddell: And it's totally true. 

crystal waddell: Because before I can set your systems up to sell your offer, I have to be absolutely clear on what it is that you actually do for the clients.

crystal waddell: The process [00:39:00] that you go through. 

crystal waddell: And I have to make sure that you are confident enough to sell those services at your price point.

crystal waddell: I come across so many people that are really hesitant. 

crystal waddell: And if you are not confident in selling your services at the particular price, it will come across in your booking process. 

crystal waddell: No matter how automated I make it. 

crystal waddell: And so that is like what I tell everybody. 

crystal waddell: So the first half actually has nothing to do with the tool.

crystal waddell: It is about me asking you a lot of questions to get you to think about whether or not you are married to the services that you already have. 

crystal waddell: Or whether or not we have the flexibility to make changes. 

crystal waddell: Because everybody, when they come to me. 

crystal waddell: It's like the majority of the people are up leveling their entire business.

crystal waddell: They're usually getting new copy for their website. 

crystal waddell: They're usually getting a new website. 

crystal waddell: And then the systems are just like a natural evolution to their entire business getting a facelift. 

crystal waddell: And so we want to make sure that the front end of your business matches the back end of your [00:40:00] business. 

crystal waddell: And that your client experience is cohesive. 

crystal waddell: Before they contact you.

crystal waddell: And after they contact you. 

crystal waddell: But I have this very long process where I ask you a lot of questions. 

crystal waddell: I make you take a deep, dark look at everything in your business. 

crystal waddell: And then once I understand it. 

crystal waddell: Then, and only then. 

crystal waddell: Do we start actually planning the customer experience. 

crystal waddell: All of those touch points and how we can automate them best for you.

brittany herzberg: I love that. 

brittany herzberg: And frankly, I want to switch to Dubsado now so I can work with you. 

brittany herzberg: I love that though. 

brittany herzberg: And I feel like I do that a little bit with people with their SEO strategy. 

brittany herzberg: Because I ask three to five questions. I have these three core ones. 

brittany herzberg: And if I don't get a clear answer, guess what? 

brittany herzberg: Your people who are searching for you are not getting a clear answer.

brittany herzberg: And that is not helping anyone. 

brittany herzberg: Because you have a solution and they have a need. 

brittany herzberg: And we need to get you both on the same page on Google. 

brittany herzberg: All right. Let me ask this question. Then you can leave. All right. Coley, where can people find you online? 

colie james: I guess I should say my website first, right? 

brittany herzberg: That was what we learned today.

colie james: My website is [00:41:00] coliejames.com. 

colie james: I am on Instagram. 

colie james: I have my podcast, which is the Business First Creatives Podcast. 

colie james: Brittany has been a guest. 

colie james: And that's where you can find me on the internet. 

brittany herzberg: Yay. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us. 

brittany herzberg: Like any photographer that I know. 

brittany herzberg: I'm about to be like, go listen to this podcast.

crystal waddell: When it comes out, I'm going to send it to my email list. 

crystal waddell: And specifically to the photographers. 

crystal waddell: And say, Hey, this episode is for you. 

crystal waddell: And I did want to drop one factoid about this day today. 

crystal waddell: This is our one year anniversary of our podcast.

colie james: I just had mine last week.

brittany herzberg: Congratulations to all of us. 

crystal waddell: Yes. So I'm glad you're all here to celebrate together. 

crystal waddell: And B, I did want to give you a shout out. 

crystal waddell: And just say, thank you so much for starting this podcast. 

brittany herzberg: Thank you for remembering the anniversary. 

brittany herzberg: Cause I already forgot. 

brittany herzberg: Even though you told me yesterday.

brittany herzberg: That's why it takes two of us. 

crystal waddell: I don't remember anything, but I remember that it's our anniversary. 

brittany herzberg: I love that you remember that. Okay. 

brittany herzberg: I know we all have to leave. Thank you so much. This is awesome.