The Simple and Smart SEO Show

SEO Success, Lead Gen & 3-Day Challenges w/Rachael Spiewak

November 01, 2023 Brittany Herzberg, Crystal Waddell Season 2 Episode 76
SEO Success, Lead Gen & 3-Day Challenges w/Rachael Spiewak
The Simple and Smart SEO Show
More Info
The Simple and Smart SEO Show
SEO Success, Lead Gen & 3-Day Challenges w/Rachael Spiewak
Nov 01, 2023 Season 2 Episode 76
Brittany Herzberg, Crystal Waddell

Today Rachael Spiewak discusses her approach to three-day challenges, emphasizing  the importance of search engine optimization (SEO) for digital community building. 

1. Rachael stressed the necessity of learning digital skills as an entrepreneur.

  •  SEO is an integral part of any online strategy, whether done consciously or not.
  • Businesses must differentiate themselves.
  • You can utilize a variety of platforms to conduct customer research.
  • Video is the most powerful type of content on the internet.

2. Rachael suggested digital marketing formats to  showcase personality and perform research.

  • Use of an “Ask Me Anything” format to deal with customer queries. 
  • Three-day challenges can grow your list and gather data on her target market.
  • Leveraging customer language and social proof in SEO.

Want to connect with Rachael?


Other episodes we mentioned:

Workflow Tips w/ Dahlia
SEO meets Video w/ Alex
Strategic Stories w/ Emma

Connect w/ B: YouTube, Website, LinkedIn, Instagram

Send me a text!

The Growth Gear
Explore business growth and success strategies with Tim Jordan on 'The Growth Gear.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

This Is Propaganda
Challenging marketers' delusions about the cultural impact of our work. A WEBBY winner!

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Support the Show.

Search the Simple and Smart SEO Show podcast for something you heard! It's free!

Apply to be my podcast guest! 🎙️ Don't forget to Put your pitch topic in the subject line!

Start your Shopify Store!
Get Carry (formerly Ocho): the best retirement resources for entrepreneurs!

If you make a purchase using some of my links, I make a little money.
But I only ever share products, people, & offers I trust & use myself!

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Today Rachael Spiewak discusses her approach to three-day challenges, emphasizing  the importance of search engine optimization (SEO) for digital community building. 

1. Rachael stressed the necessity of learning digital skills as an entrepreneur.

  •  SEO is an integral part of any online strategy, whether done consciously or not.
  • Businesses must differentiate themselves.
  • You can utilize a variety of platforms to conduct customer research.
  • Video is the most powerful type of content on the internet.

2. Rachael suggested digital marketing formats to  showcase personality and perform research.

  • Use of an “Ask Me Anything” format to deal with customer queries. 
  • Three-day challenges can grow your list and gather data on her target market.
  • Leveraging customer language and social proof in SEO.

Want to connect with Rachael?


Other episodes we mentioned:

Workflow Tips w/ Dahlia
SEO meets Video w/ Alex
Strategic Stories w/ Emma

Connect w/ B: YouTube, Website, LinkedIn, Instagram

Send me a text!

The Growth Gear
Explore business growth and success strategies with Tim Jordan on 'The Growth Gear.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

This Is Propaganda
Challenging marketers' delusions about the cultural impact of our work. A WEBBY winner!

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Support the Show.

Search the Simple and Smart SEO Show podcast for something you heard! It's free!

Apply to be my podcast guest! 🎙️ Don't forget to Put your pitch topic in the subject line!

Start your Shopify Store!
Get Carry (formerly Ocho): the best retirement resources for entrepreneurs!

If you make a purchase using some of my links, I make a little money.
But I only ever share products, people, & offers I trust & use myself!

This transcript was machine generated and has not been fully edited for errors.

Welcome back to the simple and smart SEO show podcast. We're so excited that you're here. And we're also excited for a guest B and I met, a few years ago during our clubhouse days. We were just talking about how grateful we were that our paths continued to cross.

And that person is Rachael Spiewak. She is here today to talk all about three day challenges, five day challenges, all sorts of stuff. Good morning, Rachael. It's so good to have you. Good morning, B.

Good morning. Good morning. I'm so excited. You're here. I'm really excited. Thank you for having me. Of course. 

So we met on Clubhouse and at the time, you were talking about Facebook groups and just really leveling up the engagement in Facebook groups. 

Is that something you're still doing now?

Or can you fill us in and what's happened last couple of years? 

Yes and no, because Facebook is just a part of our lives. 

And especially when it comes to, three day challenges, which is what we're focusing on right now. There's a Facebook group component to it. but as far as really, doubling down and being totally focused on Facebook groups. that was a different season.

but That experience, was is definitely a crucial piece of what I'm doing now. 

It's pretty cool that into your new venture. 

It's all been a play on the same theme really since forever ago. I've got a degree in cultural anthropology. A master's degree in community partnerships, social work. 

When I was in grad school, I started a, with some friends, a non profit pay what you want bicycle repair shop. In Atlanta. Where I was living at the time. Yeah, so I've been doing community work for a long time, and this predates Facebook and social media as we know it. We had a blog and we had a, I believe, a Yahoo mailing list.


it's been a minute. 

Yeah. now I remember how we first crossed paths. It's because I used to work at the YMCA. So when I heard you talking about social work and community engagement, I was like, Oh, my gosh. I really like this person. I understand where she's coming from. So yeah, that totally jogs my memory about how we even connected in the first place.

So I'm an 80s baby, and the best movies from that time were the ones where we're going to save the community center. 

Probably with a dance contest or something like that, very like break into electric boogaloo. 

And I feel like that really forms the foundation of a lot.

What I do. 

And you have a background as a DJ too. And that for me was what piqued my interest when I heard you say that because my boyfriend actually has a background as a DJ and he had an 80s radio show. So to tie those things together. So tell us about that. 

Yeah. So I was this nonprofit founder director, activists and what, I was one of those bike people, at the protest with the no blood for oil signs and stuff.

So that takes way back. and then stuff happened in Atlanta. It was time to move on. 

Move to New York because that's what you do. You moved to Brooklyn to make it. and I could not find a job in the non profit industry, it just wasn't lining up. I wasn't really in that headspace anyway. so I fell back on my side hustle, which was DJing. And I wasn't really that great, but. 

I knew how to hustle, and I definitely knew how to leverage community, and that's really what helped me actually create a full time career for a couple of years out of that, and that's actually how I met my husband, who is a full time DJ as well in New York City. 

Awesome. Do you want to go ahead and ask your SEO question? 

Yes. Yes, I would. You may or may not know, but I love asking people how they define or what they think of when someone says SEO, and there are no wrong answers. 

Mike's over to you, friend. 

it stands for Search Engine Optimization. Yay! Gold star!

Nailed it! And it has to do with driving web traffic. To your website using keywords and putting the right words in the right place. 

Mostly in the back end, but also on blogs and other pieces of the forward facing parts of your websites. 

beautifully said. And actually, now that you're saying that and we're talking about community, I'm like. 

This is brilliant because SEO is helping you build your own community in your own spot online.


I love the like togetherness. 

Yes, the togetherness and the lead gen. That's the part that I'm really excited about because, okay, with community work and fundraising, for example. 

A lot of people, air quotes people, think of non profits and then they think grants. there's just free money sitting there for a non profit.

All you have to do is show up and be like, I'm a non profit, give me the money. 

And it doesn't work like that. It works like anything else. you, when you help yourself, that's when the help comes to you. 

So when you self generate. funds, self generate your budget. 

Then, the larger granting organizations and individuals will come along and say, okay, this is sustainable.

You guys can do it on your own. I'm going to give you money to scale. Rather than I'm going to give you money to just survive. 

And you're probably going to blow it because you're not acknowledging that a nonprofit is really a tax designation. It's still a business, right? So, what we did at our bike shop was, and this is before online crowdfunding, so there's that. But everything was a suggested $5 donation.

If you needed parts, if you needed help. If you just wanted to use the shop, whatever, we would just say, you know what? Suggested $5 donation. That could come in the form of giving us stuff, getting your time, cash, whatever cash you have. There are all sorts of ways to plug into it. And we are able to self generate enough money to function.

It was definitely like a minimum viable product situation, but. We were functioning on our own, and that's how we were able to secure all the grants that we Got, right. 

So it's the same thing with web traffic and challenges and entrepreneurship and business. When you're showing that you can do it yourself.

That's when the support comes to you. I love that you said lead gen because that's a great keyword that we haven't used on the podcast yet. And that's a whole, that's a whole thing of SEO, right? I love that you 

said that. So community building.

So all of those little 5 donations, right? That's all lead gen there, right? because these people will come back for more. 

They'll tell a friend. Their friend will come in and interact with the shop however they do. So we became this beacon, right? And we're sending our like, our words out, right? 

And in the form of our community members to go grab their friend and Come back and contribute more. 

And this is really the foundation of how I think about kind of everything.

You can piece it together with all these little bits of traffic as long as you are intentional about telling people where to go and what to do.

Yeah. And that's where I see a lot of entrepreneurs fall down online. 

I just changed my Instagram bio because I thought about, I've, I just had this come to Jesus meeting with myself about what am I trying to do?

 a lot of people have come to me and said, Hey, can you help me with stuff or whatever? Yes, I'll still, do your $99 audit or whatever. But what I'm doing is I'm documenting my journey from taking a handmade Etsy business, to scaling a Shopify store.

That's what I'm doing. And I just happened to be showing people and then people got interested in it and wanted to know how. 

But what I did was I pieced together those things like you're talking about. I pieced together Pinterest. You know a piece together, seo I piece together obviously having an e commerce platform like Shopify where you could actually make the purchase. 

 I just think It's so interesting. Anytime someone takes something tangible from the real world and like how we used to do it I love seeing how it translates to like the digital application. 

And that's what you just did And so I love that so much.

i'm right in the midst of it. So you're speaking to my heart. I just think that's so cool. 

Love it. Let me tell you Launching a DJ career was very much at that cross section of in real life and online. 

Because when you are an artist, whether it's performing artists or studio artists or whatever, you have to be your own marketer.

You have to be your own CEO. You have to, there's so many pieces of business that suddenly you have to do. And if you're coming at it just from an artist perspective, you're like, I'm just here to make art. Everything else should fall into place around me. It doesn't work like that. So I had to learn, I had to learn WordPress.

Because, the drag and drop, build your own websites didn't exist yet. So I learned WordPress, which meant I learned some HTML, which means I learned some CSS. I learned, there was no Canva at the time, so I used Gimp, which is like the free version. Yes, of Photoshop. Photoshop. There's so many.

I had to learn how to go talk to bar managers. And general managers and just walk into an establishment and be like, Hey, I want to DJ here, and who am I, and when you are doing your own thing, it's inevitable, you've got to be able to learn all this stuff and to bring it back to SEO and community building.

These are pieces that are Unavoidable. Because you are doing SEO, whether you like it or not. 

If you're doing it well,that's another question. 

Yeah. And that was something that for anyone not watching the video. Crystal just pointed at me because I talk about this. a lot. I discovered when I was learning SEO that my massage website at the time. My website was wholly dedicated to my massage practice.

And I was ranking for some terms that were less than ideal. And I was like, Oh, how is this happening? And how can I maybe change this and start showing up for things that I want to show up for? 

So I like to say that you're gifted with an SEO strategy, whether or not you plan for it. So why not?

Plan for it and tell the search engines. Hey, I want you to play matchmaker between me and X person. and that's something that I started to say recently is like Google and search engines are matchmakers. You're over here with the thing of either a product, a program, something. or sorry, and someone is looking for that.

So search engines are like, here, two people. Meet. this is the thing that you might want. So yeah, thank you for calling that out and highlighting that you're going to get an SEO strategy, whether or not you put some thought and intention behind it. 

Google is the Yenta of the internet. Yes, it is. It's the what?

Yenta from Fiddler on the Roof. I'm being very Jewish right now. I love it. 

Yeah, I love it too. I didn't know what that was. And I'm like, yes. Okay, cool. I love analogies. Keep them coming. 

I will. I will. 

We're here for this.

You know what, it's so funny 'cause I'm used to being the host of things,

So I'm like, here, I'm just gonna start interviewing myself. Go for it girl. 

Can we go back to lead gen and talk about your challenges and how that relates to lead gen, because I want to hear all about how this works and then see how SEO fits in the mix. 

so I took a little detour from doing my own thing for a minute. And wound up directing a program where I was doing everything that I do just in a W 2 kind of format, which was really illuminating working in that environment coming from doing my own thing and being around people doing their own thing.

So just seeing what my clients see from the inside. being. In their shoes, right? And looking out at the world instead of looking in, how, when you're doing ideal client avatar kind of work, you're putting your spin on what you think you see with other people. So having that perspective and I was thinking all along. 

If I were to put myself back out there at some point, what would the, what I just, I want to do the simple thing, right? 

I wanted to pick one offer for one kind of person and just put that out there and be good with that. Instead of being like, I don't want to narrow it down so much. 

I'm just going to put it out there that I do this one thing for this one kind of person with this particular outcome. So I landed on three day challenges, which I never ever saw coming. 

But as I was helping out with other facets of this business where I was working in this W2 capacity, I was just seeing the need for SEO,

lead gen, building a mailing list, having a CRM, all of these little pieces that businesses need in order to scale. 

When you're doing your thing on your own, you can put it all in a Google worksheet. 

But when you're running a complex business with multiple employees and different projects and things. 

It needs to be organized in this way. So my point is the one thing I zeroed in on that I like, because there's the piece of it. If you're doing like your icky guy, right? Like things you like to do, what the world needs, what you can get paid for, what you're good at. It all came back to the community building and the entertainment aspect.

Three day challenges. I really, really enjoy online events. I've been doing them just cause. I loved doing Clubhouse. There was that, we did the 420 show. Puff Puff passed the mic. that was my idea. Everybody loved that. I do, I was doing an event in my Facebook group called Live Video Palooza where I would get people, entrepreneurs to go live on Facebook.

Many of them for the first time ever. And you guys know what live video is like. One of the most powerful pieces of content you can put on the internets. 

so I looked at it like, oh, I've been doing this all along instead of trying to shoehorn myself into a thing like, I do Facebook groups. 

Yes. it was looking at the thing I do naturally that I really enjoy that has the most.

like business building potential. I like to be close to what makes money. Because that's the thing that has the most value, right? And it's the thing you can charge the most for is I make you more money. all of these pieces came together. And so when it was time to go back out on my own again, that's what I put out there.

And I put it out as what Joel Irway calls the, what is he called the power, the one sentence power offer. And it looks like, It looks like if I could help you do this. Without this or in this period of time, would you take me up on that offer? Which is something I've been telling my Facebook group members to do all along.

I've been telling them like, just ask your community if they want something, what's the worst that can happen? They say no. And then you don't make it. Okay. but the way Joel Irwin explained it and made his framework about it just really resonated with me. So I tried it. And I put it out there. I put something like, Hey, coaches and consultants, if I could help you host a three day challenge without the stress and headaches or without the burnout. That was the piece. Without the stress and burnout.

Would you take me up on that offer? And immediately, I had sales calls booked in now that I've been on like every side of this, thing that's a three day challenge. 

Oh, and if it seems random, because the thing was five day challenges, especially during pandemic time when people were home anyway.

And so five day challenges really made sense. 

I asked in my Facebook group, like a year ago. or maybe more. I asked them, how do you really feel about five day challenges? And everyone was like, oh, they're too long. the hosts, they talk too much. And they, I got all of the, the negative feedback that, we could probably rattle off.

But, one of the positives that came out of it was a lot of people were like, I'd do a three day challenge. Three day challenge sounds good to me. So it was that piece of market research from my Facebook group. From my community from a while ago that helped shape this thing. And, So I did a little URL domain name search to see who else is doing this, what else exists, and nobody owned 3daychallenge. com. So I bought it. Because 

that is awesome. 

Yes. If you get, if you can use the most obvious words possible. You should use them, which is something I've been teaching about Facebook groups. When people want to name their Facebook group, they give it some goofy name that they made up or an acronym or, just things that nobody would naturally search for, right?

I would have people do their competitor analysis when they had an idea for a Facebook group. 

Just go on Facebook, go to the search bar, type your keywords, think about your community member and what words they would type in order to find your community. 

Narrow it down by groups and see what exists. If there's a whole bunch of groups with lots and lots of members, there's a market for what you're going to do. And now, the lay of the land, like all of this exists, this is who you're competing with.

See what you can offer that's different because you need to differentiate yourself. Somehow. Maybe you see that nothing exists. So then we have to make a decision. Maybe there's no market for this. Or maybe it's an untapped market. And we need to dive a little bit deeper, figure that out. 

Yeah. it's absolutely brilliant.

I love that you're doing three day challenges. I love that you brought up voice of customer research. I love that you got three day challenge. com. Like what? But the thing that I don't want to gloss over, I went to go back to and spend a little bit more time there because this is a thing for me as well.

And I'm sure any, like several people listening is that. We need to take our own advice. Sometimes we're so used to saying the things and do this and this is smart and here's the thing. And here's the process and then we don't take the time I'm raising my own hand and like talking to myself right now. Like we don't take our own advice.

So I love, love, love that you did that and that you already had that market research to fall back on and say, I've already asked the question. I already know what the secret sauce is. I already know what people want. And then you had the forethought to go and get the domain. That is literally the simplest way that you could phrase it.

And that also sent off, like happy bells in my head. Because just yesterday, Justin Blackman came in the case study training program and he was talking about brand voice. And we were talking about SEO and we were talking about personality. And, that is really like where my happy magical places is. Like bringing in doing copywriting in a way that brings in keywords, but allows your personality to really shine. And that's what I've noticed, like talking about gaps in the market. That's what I've noticed with some SEO copywriters, or even just like SEO people. 

Is we say things a little too plainly, and then we don't highlight our personality.

Or. We get super cutesy, like you were talking about with the Facebook group names. And then no one in the world knows what it is. 

And I went through several of your trainings, and every time you said things like, this is so smart, this is so brilliant, how haven't I thought of that? 

But, so there's like a lot of different touch points, but thank you for reminding us all that we need to take our own advice sometimes.

You're welcome.

 I was also going to look up domains because she made my brain go I love when this happens because it's like i've got so many ideas right now but it's just such perfect timing that we're talking to you.

Like I said, I'm changing up like what I offer and how I offer it. And when You know, yes, I know a lot about SEO, but I'm also an e commerce store owner that's trying to scale a store massively.

I've got big dreams for, like, where we're going, right? and we actually have a new product of marquee letters that are going to be launching in January. And so I'm, like, super excited. I'm going to, have a rental arm of our business. 

And so that's been the challenge and kind of my struggle over the last year and a half since we started doing this podcast. 

I don't have a big team behind me.

This is not, my original plan was like the scale and SEO business. It just kind of happened. 

So I love what you're saying though about like how to merge those worlds. and what do people always ask me? They're always just asking me kind of questions that they need answered right now so they can DIY.

And so my whole point is I'm going to put this question out to my community and just say, Hey, if I had, a monthly Q and a call for your Shopify SEO. Is that something that you would be interested in? It meets their need where they're at, because a lot of Shopify store owners, they're not necessarily looking for a full time SEO for their store, anyway, they're just looking to solve specific problems at specific times in their business. And so I'm just, I'm so thankful for you because now I'm like looking for domain names for that. 

I love the Ask Me Anything approach, the AMA, which is really championed on Reddit. Which is another treasure trove of communities from the brilliant to the weird.

but I, I love that format. And that's something that I've discovered in my own work and trying to cram all of my ideas into a course. Which is like hard for people whose brains are like pew, pew, pew, pew, right? and people need, like you said, Crystal, people just need the one thing answered at the particular moment. 

Then they're not going to absorb the rest of the stuff that you have to say until they're just waiting for you to answer the thing that they want to know.

And when you do things in a, in an Ask Me Anything format, You don't have to prepare anything. You don't have to make a presentation. You just show up. Yes. It's like the most effective thing you can do. And it's like the least amount of work. And then you put the replay up. 

You can do it as a recurring revenue model where people, pay for their membership.

They get the one meeting a month and then they can hang out in a Slack workspace or on Discord or a Facebook group and they can all just talk amongst themselves. 

And the great thing about AMAs, too, is you start to get your frequently asked questions. Which then you can put on your website. And people who are Googling. The questions that people are asking you are the things that other people are Googling. So hopefully they'll make their way to your website because you've answered exactly what they want to know. Round of applause. 

Thank you. Just beautiful. 

Yes, that was a master class in using client language as part of your SEO strategy, and that's what's so very important.

Yeah, and that's actually where I start off with all of my SEO copywriting SEO strategies. I start with the social proof. Literally what you said, Rachel, is what are people already asking? How are my people describing me and what I do and what their experience is like in the results that they got?

Start there. You don't have to invent these things in your head. Be smart about it. Go talk to your people. They want to help you, especially if you've helped them. They want to, they feel like they could go owe you something back. So they really want to help and support, but yeah, go talk to your people. 

So here's how three day challenges explode all of this, like exponentially.

So this is where it gets really exciting. At least for us. Maybe our listeners too. But in your three day challenge, you get to grow your list, of course. 

It's a lead magnet. It's a high, high ticket lead magnet, if you will. So you've got people coming in, new people, your current people who are hanging out in the wings.

who maybe haven't really spoken up yet, but you're pulling in all these people, growing your targeted list for people who are interested in your topic, right? 

So they come into the Facebook group and you give them an opportunity to introduce themselves. That's like data on data on data about your target market.

First of all, then you get into your daily tasks and coming back to the point about, not having to teach all the time. 

But just answer what people need to know in the moment. If you can craft your three tasks around, if it can touch on your framework. 

And if it can give them just a quick win. 

A quick perspective shift. Just get them to do something before you even teach, make them do something that allows them to have a realization.

Then when you come in later to do an ask me anything session afterwards, you can reflect on all the, so people are going to put their results in the Facebook group, right? 

They go do a task like,what money stories did you hear growing up? So let's say we're doing a money block thing, whatever.

Everybody's got a money story. Everybody's going to say, Oh, my parents said money doesn't grow on trees. 

And I grew up this way and we couldn't have this for this reason. And my family always said this about money and. 

Then you can take all of those answers and come back later and do your ask me anything. And talk about the big themes, show people that there is a community, right?

Like you're not alone, you're not the only person here who said their parents said blah blah blah. 

So that validation, showing them that they're connected to all these people, right? And then you answer their individual questions about the task. So it Pushes them into this aha moment altogether.

and side note. 

So when it comes to the information that's really changed your business or changed your life, was that a whole entire class? Probably no. 

It was probably one thing that somebody said, like the one little thing where you're like. Oh, the perspective shift, like the one tiny perspective shift that you can give someone in 60 seconds or less. 

Way more valuable than cramming a lecture with a bunch of stuff that nobody's going to absorb.

Anyway. So back to three day challenges. 

So we've got this introductions post in the beginning where we're learning. everything about your ideal client and your market. 

Then you're getting them to interact with pieces of your framework and your philosophy and your outlook. And they're just spitting words back at you.

Words, words, words. And what happens is people are going to say nice things like, Oh my God, you helped me realize dah. So now you're. Go on screenshot. You make an album on your phone for testimonials or social proof, whatever you call it. Just start, narrow it down like social proof for my three day challenge.

Throw all those testimonials in there. Now you've got like tons of testimonials to use when you do it again, first of all. 

And then throughout your social media, your web ecosystem. And then when you start to sell your product or your service, your offer, whatever. On the third day, you weave that into your live presentation.

You're asking me anything like, Oh, by the way, to continue your journey with me in a totally supported, like obvious next steps kind of way. if this made sense to you and it resonated with you, this is where you go next. 

This is telling people, go here, which is what SEO is all about being intentional about telling people like this is the progression you're going to go through. 

Because people really need that they need to be told, because what do they know?

it's like I go to the gym, right? 

And I go to a class where the instructor says do this, right? I don't just go to a gym and be like, I guess I'll do whatever. 

Because what do I know? I know I want results, right? So anyway, so people start buying the thing. 

And then you can welcome them and then everybody else gets to see oh, Brittany signed up for Rachel's whatever the thing is. Welcome Brittany.

So then we get that, that FOMO again. And that community feeling of all these people are joining this thing and I really enjoyed being in this community with them for the last couple of days, maybe one step closer to purchasing the thing. So anyway. When all is said and done, now you've got this Facebook group full of data. 

Full of testimonials, full of feedback, full of questions that your people are asking. 

That you can now,if you Put it all in a spreadsheet or put it all somewhere and organize it.

Now you've got content forever instead of having to sit there and think Oh my God, what am I going to write about today? You can write about exactly what your people are telling you. They need from you. Ta da. 

Mic drop.

Wow. Such a great explanation of how to leverage all of those elements.

we had,Emma, um, Boshart on a few weeks ago. Oh my gosh. I love Emma. Emma, talks about brand stories and, creative storytelling and that type of thing. 

I just dove into all of her tips about creative storytelling. 

And I used Jasper to help me write a brand guide that's 80 pages long. 

And it has brand stories, Why we started our business and different product type things that can go on the product pages. 

And I no longer have to write any other content Because our brand story is encompasses so much, it encompasses wooden letters and encompasses, senior nights across football, basketball, soccer, every sport.

And it's just crazy because I use the client language I took reviews from Etsy. And I took reviews from our Shopify store. 

And I use those to create the brand stories of, people who might purchase from our shop in the future. 

And so it's just. It's amazing when you use people's words that then attracts more people like them.

And it's such a duh. But that's one of those, that mindset shift, like a paradigm shift that we have to make as business owners to realize, Oh my gosh, it's not as hard as we're making it really. we just need some time to sit down and organize it.

So that's my next question. Like, how do you organize all of that? Because that's That's like qualitative data, quantitative data is easier to put in a column or row. 

But how do you organize that qualitative data? 

I think it's the anthropology and the social work degree, which is all qualitative data.

It's all ethnographies and asking people weird questions. 

When I was in social work school, side note. 

I was, to do an internship and I was a school social worker or assistant, out in Atlanta. And we would have to call the kids, parents of the children who were chronically like unexcused.

I would have to ask them, the most invasive questions. It was crazy! did you do drugs when you were pregnant with this child? It was crazy, right? 

But, point being. I am, Well versed in interviewing people and taking that information and turning it into something that we can use functionally.

 I'm interested in user experience.

That is a lot of qualitative data and organizing of that.

And I'm still trying to figure out that, like how it goes together. 

You get it from experience. Because it really is this, ephemeral, hard to get your hands around kind of thing.

So I think it just comes from studying humans intently for a long time. and being a pattern seeker. I'm tuned into, okay, if this, then that. With people. Because people's behavior is generally patterned and ordered, generally. There are aberrations, but, once you start to see this, it's like seeing the same movie over, it's like seeing the same plot of a movie over and over again, oh, I've seen this before, and this is the part where this happens, and this is the part where this happens.

I think I'm hearing you say that you organize it in themes, in a way. 

Yeah, Okay. So other piece of the puzzle, though, that has a lot to do with how I've been able to get this up and running so fast. 

Is I have a partner in this, Katie McGuire, she is known as the tech goddess.

And if I saw my manifesting generator, if you're into human design. And she's a projector. And so we like repeat in a pod, she can take my like, explosion of ideas and be like, And here's how it looks as a website. or here's the backend system that's going to facilitate that. So I have an additional brain that's helping me.

And so we're using notion, for example, to organize our projects. it's a little bit of a forced organization for me. Cause I'm not an overtly organized person. 

Like it makes sense to me in here, but it looks like a big old mess to everybody else. But doing client work, especially in this project format, being an agency. 

you just have to, and I've got like our, we've got our Google drive and like subfolder client work. Subfolder, this client subfolder. 

Facebook reports, subfolder, Emails and everything is turning into templates.

And what I really wanna do is be able to like key in the things that are different per each challenge and just have it like populate. 

If we can make that happen, it would be so amazing. and I am intending to hire us an assistant in the imminent future. one of the benefits of being in that W-2 is I got hired an executive assistant. 

Who came from an agency. Who is trained in how to be a VA, right? 

And what to take off because I'm used to wearing all the hats. I'm used to doing it all my self. and then you get your claws in it, right? And it's hard to let go. 

And it's hard to know, okay, I need to Touch everything.

How in the world am I going to hand this off? So I had this like wonderful VA come along get me organized. She showed me how to be organized on a daily basis. 

And she brought a level of organization to the table that I just couldn't see. So I am specifically building our three day challenge.

The agency is a digital agency. Really, we'll do everything, but the offer, right? the, Okay. From a marketing perspective, right? Three day challenges. 

But we're building it intentionally so that when the time comes, which is very soon, we can bring on help and start delegating, and maybe in the future we sell this business, perhaps. 

Like I'm trying to be,big business brain about it instead of.

where I was before, where I was like, it's a thing where I do all the things, and nobody else can step in, and if I'm not available, it all, it stops, I want to be able to work for two hours a day and put it down, and know that the whole thing is still running. 

Yeah, I, so I'm a weird manifesting generator because I look very organized.

I was just telling someone, cause I had a meeting with someone who's going to come in and help me and assist with the funnel and the tech and the workflows and all the things because it's, it, I got it out of my head and then it's back in my head and I'm like, I don't know, like help. So from an outside perspective, all my clients, anyone I interact with, they're like, you're so organized.

And I'm like, yeah, the part it's like super organized. Everything else is just like chaos. So it's. It really makes a difference to keep things organized, especially when it comes to anything like work related. The, you were talking about having a folder even on your phone or in your Google drive.

I've started calling mine my happy folder. And that is where like any kind of praise any kind of like. Literally like just happy stuff. If it's results, like I get to celebrate that with clients. 

I literally have 

a happy folder and I keep looking down because I'm looking at it because I'm keeping all the stuff organized in there.

What would be really smart is if I was like folder for SEO, folder for case study training program, folder for done for you case study copywriting, and I probably will go back and do that today because I It's manageable right now. I have a manageable amount of screenshots in there and I can, tell them where to go.

But it just makes it easier for you, if you're listening, when you're going to create these things and talk about your business and share about it and search for that social proof. Whether it's, I want to put a testimonial on my services page, or whether it's, I want to create a case study like you have it, it's at your fingertips, it's easy for you to just point out and utilize.

 And I love how you were talking about big brain ideas. that's something that Asher says, something he saw on YouTube and I'm like, Oh, I love big brains, so big brain ideas are so key. And then my dad used to always say major in the minors. And this is one of those scenarios where I really think it applies because organization, Go look at any one of our Canva accounts, And it would probably be the best illustration of, a cluster. So it's like one of those things where it's like those minor things just make so much difference later. When you're trying to stay organized. 

And I ran into it when I was doing Pinterest management for people, because it's like you said, when you have it in your brain and like the processes, it's one thing. 

And I can do for my own print Pinterest account, I can just take some keywords, slap it on a Canva file, go post it, whatever.

But for a client, you have to have the keywords.

you have to have the image link. You have to have the date you posted it, the boards that you posted it to. And it becomes this thing. 

I tried to use air table for that, but Trying to organize it while you're like building the plane as B would say is a surefire way to probably crash and burn. and I was just like, this is not for me.

So I just, I think it's so interesting. I would love if there's someone listening right now, if you have. organization strategies for something like Canva or for your iPhone photos. 

That's something I'm running into a lot, like I would love to go back through, like B said, create that happy folder.

I've tried to create a collage folder on my iPhone and I don't know, every time that whole thing just blows up. And I'm like, I could have swore I did this. So yeah, that whole conversation I think is so important because it's not something we usually associate with SEO. 

But think about how much easier it would be to name your image files if things were more organized.

yeah. Important things about. 

And that's why I like with clients. I've started creating a Google doc where there's keywords at the top, but my workflow is beneath that. And then I talk them through it. So I'm like, this is what it, here's the keywords that you're using. And it's like keyword search volume, any notes.

that I have for them, but it's front and center. And then as they scroll down, it's this was your social proof that you shared with me. Here are some things that I pulled out of that. Here was my brain dump. Here was what the me testing my hypothesis said. And here were like the best results. And there's even usually like a little section where I give them content ideas.

So it's it's organized chaos and I walk them through it. And that way, if they ever need to do it on their own and they don't want to bring me back for whatever reason, and they want to try their hand at it, they've got everything right there. And all they have to do is, follow the steps.

Most people just want to understand it, and they want to bring on help for that, and just, have people tell them what to do. But they do want that understanding. And, that brings me to a question that I had about the challenges. when we're being really thoughtful about who we're drawing in, because there's...

For me, there's two different clients that I want to attract. I want to attract what I call the supported CEOs. They have a team, whether it's big or small, they've been around the block for a minute, they've got tons of social proof. They want help, but they want that understanding. Like I was just saying, and then I've got the solopreneurs who are like us, they're wearing all of the hats, they're doing all of the things and they really need to understand how to do this stuff.

Not just understand it, but like, how do I incorporate SEO? How do I create these content marketing strategies? So when we're thinking about these challenges, I'm sure, but I'd love to hear from you that naming the challenge, naming the Facebook group, having those like specific ideas of the tasks and the people that you're going to attract and draw in.

I'm sure that really comes into play. Can you tell us about that? 

Yeah, so we are working this process out right now because, we're brand new. We just completed our first challenge ever last week, which was really exciting. Our next one is coming up very soon. and so it's like beta testing, right?

And you're finding out where are the friction points? where, at what point do our clients start to get ants in their pants and they need You More support. What does that look like? How can we be proactive about it? for example, we need a timeline so we can manage expectations, right?

We have a kickoff call. We do all this strategy. It's like high energy. Everybody's excited. Rah rah. The next thing that needs to be made is the registration page. But hang on, like building a registration page, even though you've got a template now.

Some people are on WordPress and some people are on Squarespace and some people are on Wix.

So we're going in there and we're like, Oh, okay. We are using a new. Yeah, but we're working on a solution for that. 

But anyway, having that timeline, which I literally just made this morning after running into this several times over where clients like, so what's happening?

Because on our end, we're very busy. 

We don't see the vacuum that they see, right? we're finding, ways of organizing that are based on what the client needs in order to be totally happy with the service at all times. If we can make that happen. and so with the solopreneurs of the world, we're working with one and she already knows the ins and outs of three day challenges.

and she's already got all the pieces. What she just needs is the support and implementing. 

So the problem with challenges and why we are doing what we're doing is, it's like you have to put everything on hold to execute. 

When you still got a business to run and then you do it if you're doing it yourself, you do it and it's exhausting.

But now you've got a program to deliver. And it's just too much. It's just too much for a person. It's nice when we're working with a solopreneur who's in this world, and they pretty much know what everything is all about. that's one flavor. and then we get the supported CEOs who are like, this thing sounds cool.

What is it? and walking them through. Okay, we really have to break it down. 

And something I have to think about is like they're not in my head. They don't see what I see. So stuff that's second nature to me is like totally new to them. And I have to slow down and explain things a little bit.

With, a little bit more, more detail than I might think somebody needs. 

So anyway, you were asking, how do we determine the name of the event and the tasks and all of these things? It depends because not everybody is doing a business related challenge, right? some people are, we just did one that was about real estate investing having to do with mindset and clearing money blocks. 

And, determining, what is your number, what's your magic number for having the life that you want. Okay, how do we create a portfolio that we can mix and match things, properties, and get you to that number. So there's that. the event we have coming up next is, It has to do with Halloween, it has to do

It's for witches. So it's not really a challenge. It's a ritual, it's an experience. the host, Lilith, the host of this event already had the ideas.

She came with the ideas. She just needs us to implement it for her. But for like the supported CEOs, this sounds cool. Okay, what are we doing? we work very closely with them to figure out, okay, how can we pick from their framework? Pieces to get people in the zone, right? So they know what it's like to be in their world. 

They know what the host's philosophy is, where they're coming from, how they...

How they hold court, basically. 

And it's like little, it's like a taster, it's like a flight, it's like a sampler of experiences so that the outcome, hopefully, by the third day, is oh, okay. I see what this person is offering. And I see that the logical next step. 

If I really enjoyed this and this feels like it's going to get me to where I want to go, it would make sense.

It would just make sense to join their program. that's how I like it to work. One thing, okay, so I was in a meeting with a marketing agency who was guiding the organization I was with in, simplifying their framework. A lot of entrepreneurs want to give you the world, right? And they want to be like, here are my 12 modules and it's going to be hard work, but it's going to be worth it.

And then people are like, ah, that's too much. our job is simple. Our job is to be like, we're going to give it to you in three easy steps. So we're going to complete it in 90 days. 

And then you're going to be a SEO expert or you're going to have your roadmap or you're going to know how to launch an Etsy store.

That's what people want, right? 

If a client's framework is not broken down into three pieces already, one option is to look at how do we simplify this into three steps that we can pull something out of. That's an activity that people can do in 15 minutes or less that's gonna just open their mind about something.

Yeah, man, gosh. So many thoughts. I feel like we're gonna have to have a follow up conversation on this because,there's elements of this that I feel like, okay, we're just now getting into like the actual tangible things of a three day launch. So I see a part two in our future. 

 When you were talking about those touch points with clients, I realized even as a maker, as a collage maker. People would send me their stuff and then there'd be radio silence, for them.

Whereas you said I was very busy on my end, like I got to design the collage. I got to cut the number. I got to do all of these things. 

But they didn't know the process. And so I implemented a reminder that comes from HoneyBook and it's a whole workflow that it's okay, do this and then email the client that you're doing this.

And the feedback has been fantastic. They're like, Oh my gosh, thank you for keeping me informed. I appreciate this information. Or you are just so wonderful. The communication is so great. And I'm over here going, thank goodness for that alert, you 

know, because otherwise I would 

have forgotten to tell you that, we're even working together, but that's just such a great way.

Even if you can't hire an assistant, create a workflow that creates alerts for you. So that you can keep those people Engaged and they know that hey, I care about you I care about your project and all that type of stuff. So definitely wanted to throw that in there.

 Rachel, where can people find you? 

you can find us at rockyourtribe. com. That's still in the name of the business. it's still, it's being rebuilt.

This is the business name and the Facebook group name that's been with us for a couple of years now. So rockyourtribe. com. and you can find me on almost any social media platform, Rachael with an A, Spiewak. There's one of me. you can come find me kinda anywhere on the internet or Rachel at RockYourTribe. com. 

I love it. I'm so happy you're able to join us today. Me too. 

And you totally inspired me. I bought the domain shopSEOschool. Com. 

I love that. 

We'll be launching here in the future. So yeah, there'll be a, I'm going to, I'm going to set up a. A waiting list page there for anybody who's listening that says, you know what?

I want to get in on that. Ask me anything once a month thing. That was just such a brilliant idea. Rachel Thank you so much.

All right, stay tuned for part two we're gonna have to do this again, and yeah I think 

we're I think we're done for today. Awesome. Thanks.

(Cont.) SEO Success, Lead Gen & 3-Day Challenges w/Rachael Spiewak
(Cont.) SEO Success, Lead Gen & 3-Day Challenges w/Rachael Spiewak