Reupload Full Audio: Podcasting as Leadership: Build Trust & Influence with Andrea Johnson

Your podcast is not just content, it is leadership on record. Carl sits down with leadership coach and podcast host Andrea Johnson to unpack how modern communication, workplace culture, and podcasting strategy all point to the same challenge: learning how to lead people with authenticity and confidence, even when the system around you rewards the status quo.

Andrea shares her path from decades in higher education, medicine, and research administration to executive coaching, and why so many organisations still promote great individual contributors into management without giving them leadership development. We talk DISC personality patterns, why change feels slow in big institutions, and what it actually takes to build leaders from the ground up so culture can evolve instead of repeating itself.

Then we pivot into the podcasting space: how Andrea found her voice, what it took to reach 200-plus episodes, and the behind-the-scenes lessons she’s learned as both a host and a guest. You’ll hear a candid debate on podcast quality versus authenticity, why video podcasting and YouTube podcasts are changing discovery, and how “winging it” can quietly erode trust in your brand.

If you care about leadership coaching, communication skills, podcast branding, or building real influence with your message, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who leads a team, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Connect with Andrea

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreajohnson-intentionaloptimist/
Website: https://www.theintentionaloptimist.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theintentionaloptimist
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUQ47fVQzItvM2NEAtLZ2Q

Transcript

Carl [00:00:04]:
Welcome to Communication Connection Community, the podcasters' podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern-day communication strategies in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with news, updates, latest trends, and topics from this ever-evolving space. So strap in, it's going to be one amazing ride. Let's dive into today's episode. You know, when it comes to podcasting, we don't always attune it to being fully related to leadership, but in a way it is because firstly, you're the leader in your business. So if you're leveraging your podcast as a way to get your messaging out and elevate your credibility, that's about leadership too. That's about taking an active role in promoting what it is that you do, but it's also about leading the charge for your show. And also, even if you have a team, being the driving force behind it. Our guest today is an expert when it comes to leadership development and coaching. Andrea Johnson empowers executives and founders to lead with authenticity, conviction, and confidence so they can make a positive impact on their lives, organizations, and communities. As an adoptive parent who grew up internationally, Navigating mental and physical wellness, she learned that emotional resilience must be earned. Andrea works with leaders who feel stifled and have grown unsatisfied with their current level of influence. She facilitates improved communication and culture by working within the teams that are in those spaces. Her passion is equipping female leaders to define a new culture by trusting their own ability to think critically, create imaginatively, and lead effectively. She's also a sought-after podcast guest and the host of the Stand Tall and Own It podcast. We are so thrilled she is with us here today. Andrea, welcome to the podcast.

Andrea Johnson [00:02:06]:
Thank you, Carl. I am privileged to be here.

Carl [00:02:09]:
I am so thrilled you are here. And congratulations on— at the recording of this episode, I think you said you just celebrated around 200 episodes. Is that correct?

Andrea Johnson [00:02:17]:
When you go into Buzzsprout or whatever, it says I've recorded more than 200, but I think a few of those were putting, replaying the favorites one year at the end of the year, that kind of thing. But I think for our count, we're at 200.

Carl [00:02:31]:
That or if you've done it like me, math is hard, myself or someone on my team has misnumbered them. And that's okay because it's still worth celebrating. I do want to talk about your journey into podcasting. But before I do that, let's talk about your journey into leadership and coaching because that's how you support and empower people What brought you into that space?

Andrea Johnson [00:02:51]:
I spent— of the 28, almost 30 years that I spent in a career working for other people, 20— only 2 years of those— 2 of those years were not working in an education, higher learning, like master's level education program. I worked at graduate level seminary, and then I went into 2 different universities in the schools of medicine and research administrations. My background is in some pretty heady budgeting, regulations, clinical trials, managing people. And I was the kid who was always told I was too bossy, I was too opinionated. And I come from a conservative evangelical background where I was told women aren't supposed to be that way. And so I was in work, I felt like I could be that, you know, I could actually let some of my leadership qualities show. And then I found that in the medical field, they don't like that. When I hit 50, I said, enough is enough, and I really want to celebrate who I am and be who I am. And I started looking at ways that I could actually help people, because as a manager, I would bring people in, even on interviews, and I would tell them, this is a launch pad job for you, this is not a landing pad. And when I would train people up after 2 years, I had one time the chief of the division came in and said, what did you do wrong? I said, what do you mean, what'd I do wrong? Why did they leave? I'm like, I don't know, we got them a better job. And he's like, but they left. And I'm like, I know, it was wonderful. And so I realized that my sensibilities and my desire to leave things better than I found them, be they a rental property or a job or a person, that was at odds with being in an institution that really values, and for good reason, institutional memory. It really values consistency. It really values those things, those people who stick around in one job for 30 years. And I said, I have to do something different. And a friend of mine said, what about John Maxwell? And I'm like, what about John Maxwell? I mean, he's an author. And she said, I just got certified as a coach, speaker, trainer, coach with John Maxwell. And I'm like, huh. And I thought about that and then I forgot about it. And then another 6 months went by and I had more evidence that I needed to be not necessarily in a large university setting. And I said, you know what? I think I'd like to talk about that again. And that was the beginning of it. I had already started a personal growth journey. Actually, that began when I was 20, when I put myself in the hospital for bulimia and depression. And somebody said, guess what, Andrea, you can make your own decisions. I started and I did like Franklin Covey, Steve Covey kind of stuff. I did some Brendon Burchard stuff. And when I decided to go into being a coach and a speaker myself, where I could actually affect change rather than just hoping things would change, that was when things really took off. And that's what got me where I am. And so everything I do now. Is with that same purpose. I want the world to have more curious, welcoming, and wise leaders, and this is the way I do it.

Carl [00:05:39]:
So if I'm hearing you incorrectly, you were an overnight success then, and it's been rainbows and sunshine all along the path. It's refreshing that I hear from somebody who's worked in the institution world or the— I say institutions and corporations are very similar where when you mentioned that, why did that person leave? Because they were ready to go. And we celebrate that. That how many times working at various radio stations that I worked at when I was in the media that they'd say, well, why are you leaving? It's like for a career advancement to advance my career, bigger market, bigger city, bigger opportunities. Oh, but you're leaving us. I'm like, yes, I am. So that the struggles that, and folks, I still think that people don't still don't get that entry level. And then there's people want to move up. They don't want to stay in the same place forever. And it's a different world than when, you know, parents and certainly grandparents and my parents and grandparents were at that place where you would get a job and you'd want to stay there for 30 or 40 years because there were opportunities for advancement within that organization. That's just not, is it not the norm? It's just people don't do that anymore.

Andrea Johnson [00:06:46]:
Well, and I'm a Gen Xer, I'm an older Gen Xer, and it is normal for me. I mean, I stayed, what's funny is when I went to LinkedIn, when I quit my job to be self-employed, I went to LinkedIn to put in the change and I noticed that I had been at Johns Hopkins University for 11 and a half years. And the University of Virginia for 11 and a half years. And I said, oh, evidently that's my limit. The thing that is a hard thing to understand about what you're saying is you'd think at a big institution like that, you'd be able to move up and you'd be able to do that. And there are plenty of people who do, but if it's not the right environment for you, you don't need to be there. And if it's not the right environment for you, you're not going to thrive. Therefore, you're not going to be the one that everybody says, oh, come work for us. It has— there's a lot that goes into play. But I find I'm also a DiSC consultant, and I find that when I get in institutions like that, I actually, one of my clients, an 18-month client, was an actual veterinary hospital, which I found to be fascinatingly similar to human medicine with similar things and similar issues. But what I noticed was because 69% of the general population is on the DiSC scale an S, which is a steady, these are our team players. These are the people who do not want things to change. They actually keep you balanced. They're the ones who keep the trains literally running on time. They're the ones who make sure all the regulations happen. And when you've got 69% of the population in a situation like that, it makes it much harder to do change. These are the people who are at the bottom of your change curve, right? When you have an institution that is in a town that— and it's the biggest employer in a town, then all the people flock there. And that's just the way it's going to be. I think it's sad to me, and I just had a conversation on Tuesday with a gentleman from another university, because now I want to work with universities in a different way. But in the conversation with him, he said they'd done some market research and they found that people seem to be promoting individual contributors who do really good at their job into management positions, and then they don't know how to lead people. And I just looked across the table. This is not a new problem. This has been the complaint for 50 years. It is the exact same thing we've always done. And so part of our conversation was, how do we build the leaders from below, like the new ones coming in, and like I said, promote them up so that they have the ability to change the culture as they go up and as people graduate out of it? Because otherwise, the culture's not going to change.

Carl [00:09:08]:
I think that leadership growth too, when you go back 50, 60, 70 years ago, was almost like baptism by fire. You were carving your own path. Everything was an experiment. There was no, here's This is what we did. Now we're going to continue doing this. Again, thinking of some of the, even in the media world of people who were front runners, early adopters in radio and television, it was brand new. And so they were leading something that was probably thinking to themselves in the background, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I'm just doing it. So whereas now we have some track records, we have some history, we have all of these things and all of these systems and regulations and things that didn't exist the same way they did back then. And also culturally we've changed, societally we've changed. All of those changes make for an interesting path. And I'm assuming it's the same in the leadership space as it is in communications and podcasting. Things are just different than it was back then. It was almost easier, I'll say. I'm not saying it was easy. I'm saying it was almost easier because it's almost like there were no rules and now there are guidelines or policies or procedures because That's how we've evolved.

Andrea Johnson [00:10:13]:
So I'm gonna say in the leadership space, not as much. What's interesting is a couple of, maybe I said two, I've been thinking about this recently and I said two years of my career, but another year and a half or so of my career, I forgot my very first job outta college was at a record company in the, in Los Angeles. And I worked for the radio promotions department and I've had the privilege of being on a couple of radio shows. And I gotta tell you, there's a rush that comes with being live on the air like that that just nobody can match. It's beautiful. But that's a side note. In leadership, it's almost like in the past there were these very clear, this is what you do to be a leader, right? It was a very wide, clear path everybody had to get on. Now it's like we're in this, I don't know what kind of maze it is, but we have so much data. We have so much information. We have so many people who have really, really good ideas. We have so many tools and so many analytical opportunities. That there's so— people get overwhelmed immediately. Like, I'm putting in a proposal this week for Virginia Tech, and right now I'm the only— I'm putting in as a DiSC consultant for leadership coaching, but they do like— they have listed 6 or 8 other tools that they use helping their people figure out how to do their jobs better, and we're just going to add another tool? I think it's almost opposite, because I know what it's like being in, in medicine. There's all the rules and regulations. I fully get that. Which is why I needed to leave research administration. I just can't do all the rules. But in leadership, it's much more what, like you described, as we could just kind of forge our own way. And so while we get to do that, the problem is everybody in the past said this was the way you do it. People like these large institutions are looking for the way we do it, only it's the new way we do it. And it's like, that's not how it works anymore. There's a lot of education that has to go on with how we actually work with our people and how we manage them and how we help them grow. And, you know, it all comes down to one of your words is community.

Carl [00:12:12]:
So it's not the da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da da. We're not riding that same yellow brick road. It's changed, maybe even the correct color of yellow, because there's many different shades of. It has changed or something has made the path different. And maybe, as you said, maybe there's multiple paths that. That are.

Andrea Johnson [00:12:30]:
there are that are part of it. And here's the thing, you know, when you work with different people, you realize there's different learning styles, there's different personality types. Everybody needs to receive information differently. And unless you've got somebody who's really interested in meeting people where they are, nobody signs up to be a manager of 10 people and along with that chooses to be an educator. They're not educators, they're managers. They make sure the status quo happens, they make sure things get done, the widget gets made with the least amount of problems. And so people like me can come in and be that educator. People like me and my colleagues can come in and do a workshop to help them understand why this person needs just a little more time to make that widget than that person. And that's not bad, it's just a way to figure out how to make the team work better.

Carl [00:13:11]:
I wanna roll this into podcasting as well because I'm sensing a bit of a parallel and you are a podcaster, you're a podcasting guest, so you also must experience or witness this when you're in both chairs. It doesn't matter what chair you're in, you're probably seeing it seeing the parallel there. But let's talk about your journey into the podcasting space first. Was it that led you to podcasting as a vehicle to get your messaging out?

Andrea Johnson [00:13:33]:
I started listening to podcasts probably in 2018, 2019. And like I said, I came out of the conservative evangelical space, and the very first one that I listened to was— I started listening to like Marie Forleo and some Freakonomics and those kinds of things. But the one that really caught me was Jen Hatmaker's podcast, the For the Love podcast. And literally, I turned it on and rolled the windows up in my car as I'm pulling out of my driveway, thinking, I hope nobody can see that I'm listening to her because I think she's a heretic. I came into podcasting with a very different view of, of it than, I don't know, maybe some other people come in thinking podcasting is like this, ooh, super cool thing. Now it's big. But it started with her, and then I started listening to— after I met her. So it's like all my biggest podcast Memories are with people I personally know, which is another big thing. So this was a speaking coach I had met at a conference, and I started listening to her. And during the pandemic, I was out working from home, so I was out in my backyard weeding, and I was listening to her in my earbuds. And she literally said, is your next stage a podcast? And I stood up straight, shouted to the trees, yes, yes, that's my next stage. And I don't I think it was because I look back on it and I, I actually love sharing that story and I loved sharing with her, but it was the right moment when I was ready to say, I have something to say. I listened to a couple of your guests and, and one of 'em was like, I think it was the most recent podcast when we were recording this, but she was a financial person and she said, I don't wanna tell people how to make a budget. And then she figured out what she needed to talk about was the mindset and the fears of money and the emotions of money. Well, for me it was, I actually just have something to say. I don't have to be silent because, like I shared, everybody told me to be quiet. And all of a sudden it was like, you know what, people come and sit in my office for hours and talk to me and listen to me and want to know what I have to say. That's where it started. And I joined a little accelerator group for like $300, and within 3 months, 8 episodes were recorded and all my artwork was done and everything. So if y'all go to my podcast, everything you see there is me. I mean, it's like I have third episode, my best friend says, can I help you? I said, sure, can you edit? Because that was the thing that was going to take me longer. And if she hadn't said yes, I mean, I don't even pay her. She is that invested. She said, this is your message. I believe in you and I'm going to do this. And so she figured out how to do it all. And so together we've put together 200 podcast episodes.

Carl [00:16:01]:
Phenomenal. Usually what you hear Most people are like, "Yes, I'll put your podcast together for you." It's the space I work in, right? But certainly the fact that you have that support that can help you along the way. And you're right, there are many people who, when they come to this space, and I think this goes to the leadership aspect of things too, where we sometimes just say, "I'll just do everything. I can do it all myself. I can manage it all myself," not realizing that you might not be able to, or for very long, because there are other things that are that should be your focus point?

Andrea Johnson [00:16:34]:
You gotta run your business. And so I make my, I had a coach once who said, with our business, there are things like there's the national park and then there's the gift shop and the free museum, right? My podcast is not really my gift shop. It's really like my free museum. And this is where I share information. It is my first 2 years, I interviewed over 75 leaders, female leaders that were not, I went through rebranding after that. These were not ladies that necessarily considered themselves leaders. My goal was to show women that you lead yourself first and you lead from wherever you are and you stand up and you say, it's okay to be the tallest blade of grass. I'm gonna stand up and to show how women see that that was their story. But then as I grew, it's like, this has been my own personal journey for me to grow past Intentional Optimist, Unconventional Leaders. I needed to rebrand and I said, you know what? It's time to stand tall and own a lot of these things that I've been walking through. So I changed rebranded and changed the name. But for the longest time, I didn't even have any guests there for a little while. But you're right, being— listening to other podcasts. I have another coach that I follow who just started a daily podcast. There's no music in that podcast. Half the time, her audio is just— her sound is terrible. I mentioned even some of these bigger ones I listen to. I'm like, oh my gosh, they not hear how bad that sound was? We decided we would put it together in a professional way. Literally, I learned how to do the video. I do all my YouTube. I learned how to do the video. There's what we backed off on, Carl, was the social media. We can't do that, but I'm starting to look at ways to potentially get a sponsor and, you know, that kind of thing. Cause I'm past 10,000 downloads, you know, and, but being, yeah, I know. I was like, all my friends did it in like the first year. It took me 4, but I have a steady number of people that listen. And what's funny is my YouTube channel, I just record all of my stuff on video. It looks like you do the same. I just literally pop the same stuff up on YouTube as we do in the audio. And my YouTube channel actually is growing faster than my audio channel. But you mentioned being on both sides of the mic. And I started out this year thinking that's what I'm going to do instead of social media. I'm just going to be on podcast episodes. I've been on some doozies. I have it on. I have seen the gamut.

Carl [00:18:39]:
That's funny because I was going to ask you aha moments or any, well, we'll come to aha moments in a minute, but tales from outside of school kind of thing, things that you've learned as a guest. Hopefully this isn't one of those doozies. You'll let me know if it is later.

Andrea Johnson [00:18:52]:
I had one podcaster who, when we got on, was already recording, which is fine. I don't care. I'm not going to say anything that you can't record. I'm an open book unless you don't want me to say certain things. You got to tell me, right? But then when we were done, instead of hitting pause, she said, thank you very much, and click, and literally it was over. Where'd she go?

Carl [00:19:10]:
Is she coming back?

Andrea Johnson [00:19:11]:
No, like the Zoom call closed. And there have been some— I've learned a lot about my own personal communication to make sure that I communicate well with my guests. I mean, I told you I did that little, that little class, you know, and it was people who had had a good podcast and knew what they were talking about. And so I had some decent practices going in. Um, you and I connected on PodMatch. I've been with PodMatch almost since the beginning. And so I have some really good resources to make sure I do things well. But even these people that I connected with through PodMatch, I've learned a lot about the art of having a conversation. And I do not, if I have a list of questions, as a host, I'm not going to say, okay, my next question for you is— it's— there's always going to be— and some of that's my personality, Carl. I'm just going to walk it into the next question. I'm going to weave it in, whatever. I've learned I facilitate well. But I've had some people literally do that, and I'm thinking, they have more downloads than me. How is this possible? I'm learning too that it's not— it really is more about you need to be true to who you are and what you do and be proud of what you do and make sure that you have the confidence that you need to put out the podcast that you put out. And be happy with it. And if you don't like the numbers, figure out a way to make the numbers different, but just be you because these people are being them and their people are listening. And I've learned a whole lot about just smiling and saying, sure, I'll wait for you to go let your cat in the door. You know, I mean, it's just really interesting stuff.

Carl [00:20:35]:
Fascinating you sharing some of the stories too. I'm expecting that podcast host to actually come knocking, maybe just to say goodbye. She's there right now. I'm just kidding. Wouldn't it be funny if she was though?

Andrea Johnson [00:20:46]:
Actually, what I didn't— hang on. I set the goal. I was going to do 300 podcast episodes and interviews, and I quickly realized that is not sustainable. And I even had one guest, one host tell me that's not sustainable. I'm like, dude, you don't know me. And then of course it's not sustainable, but I've also learned to be very, very clear in my pitches and very clear in this is what I can offer you. And quite frankly, if there's no way that what you have is going to fit on my platform and I'm not going to want to share it, there's no reason for me to do this. Because if your stuff isn't going to fit on my platform, I'm probably not going to fit on yours. And there, I mean, there have been a couple that I've done because it was a friend or something like that, but I'm learning to be very much more specific.

Carl [00:21:28]:
I like that because there are people who are not and they'll just— I think it's one of the challenges because we as hosts, we want guests. And I think as guests, we want to get on as many shows as we can so we can get our messaging out there. And if we see one of those little— what I like about PodMatch is they have the tags that you can look at the tags and say, oh, somebody's talking about this. And they'll just do— in some cases, it's the same blanketed information to every single host. I want to be on your show. I want to be on your show. Not necessarily realizing that it's not a fit and it's not supposed to be a fit for every single person that you reach out to. And it's okay if it's not a fit. As I shared off microphone just before we started, chatting, how many requests I've received, and some of them definitely were not a fit. So vetting the people who are coming on your show because you don't want to have it where it either affects your credibility or worse, your guest's credibility. And then they're wondering, I don't know, maybe this person isn't so good as a host or as a business person because it can speak to us as individuals and as business people.

Andrea Johnson [00:22:30]:
And I do not do pre-interviews. As a guest, I will. If a podcaster says, I only do pre-interviews before I— I get it, no problem. You're protecting your show. You're making sure it's a good fit. I'm not going to pitch you if I don't think it's a good fit, but that's okay. It's your show. It's not mine. But I don't do them for my show, and I have been burned once or twice. But I, again, I just, for some reason, I just enjoy a conversation. I just get really curious and I turn it around. But I think being very intentional about And not being afraid that you're not going to have enough, right? It's like this whole, what we talked about in the leadership, in the job market, and in how we hire new people. If we move them up, the pie will get bigger. It's always going to fill in. It's not a zero-sum game. Having enough interviews, just getting on shows, you're wasting your energy, you're wasting your time if nobody in that audience is gonna click on your stuff. And if you're— now you might be able to add value to that audience, but that's if, if you wanna be that altruistic and be able to add value every single place you go, which is probably not as much as you think because you have a specific market and a specific message. And I had to learn that about myself too because I wanted to just like click, click, click, just get in there. But no, you need to connect with the ones that—

Carl [00:23:41]:
You need to do it with intention. And I'm certainly glad that you figured that out. You probably knew that before you got going, but you certainly have learned it as you've gone too. First thing, you mentioned YouTube and it being where you're getting a lot of traction now. And I'm not surprised because YouTube has nudged out both Spotify and Apple even for audio listening. Partly because that YouTube now has its own audio channel, I guess you could say, built into it. So even if you're an audio, it's going to continue to change the game because even if you're an audio-only podcaster, you can still be on YouTube and it'll continue to bolster your numbers. So I'm glad that you're experiencing that. I'm still a purist. I am slowly moving over to doing video podcasting, but the fact that you're getting the numbers regardless is phenomenal. The quality. I did want to talk about that though, because it still amazes me that there are shows out there that do extremely well that have substandard quality. And I think this is one of the— if I could gaze into my crystal ball, one of the changes that I think we're going to see in the next 2, 3, 4 years in the podcasting space is we're going to see that separation between high-quality, really put-together podcasts like yours. You're taking the time to do that. And the ones that are maybe more hobbyist style that don't have the same editing, the same type of quality that a show like yours would have? Because I think that's what— I think we're getting there. Actually, I think we're there now. I just don't think all of us have flicked the switch and said, OK, yes, quality matters.

Andrea Johnson [00:25:10]:
Yeah, I don't know. I do not have the crystal ball you have. I also don't have the perspective you have. I'm just a podcaster. And I don't work with other people who podcast. When I look around, I'm still looking at it from below the line. I'm still below the water a little bit, looking up on the shore. And I am very surprised at the authenticity that a lot of these less produced shows might have that I think is very appealing to a lot of people. The fortunate thing is I don't know where it comes from. It's not a rehearsed thing. I rarely have an edit. I just— I'm OK with it. I just keep going. And every once in a while, we'll stumble. Every once in a while with a guest, like I had a guest whose daughter came in the room once, but you know, it was like edited that out on the video. And I told my friends, like, it's about this perfect spot, get that stuff out of there. But most of the time it's not even edited, but it has a nice beginning and a nice end. I am disappointed when I personally go to look at someone's YouTube podcast and it's just the audio version. And because I'm like, I engage face to face. This is why I like the video recordings. My top strength from CliftonStrengths is Relator. I can look in a camera and I can relate to somebody. And so for me, I know that the video is actually a stronger piece. People tell me I have a relatable voice. I don't get it. I think I sound like a little kid. But when I can look in the camera, I feel like I can relate to people. That's one of the reasons why I moved in that direction.

Carl [00:26:32]:
I love it. And I'm really glad you shared that. And that's a good message for somebody like me who is an audio-only podcaster who does have audio-only shows on YouTube, again, shifting to video very shortly. By the time this goes live, this might very well be a video show. So yay, we make that transition. But one of the things I did want to mention though, just as we back up a minute there about quality, I believe, and I'll get your opinion on this, I believe that if it's forward-facing and it's of a lower standard, and I'll give you an example, but if it's of a lower standard, it's a reflection of your brand, it's a reflection of your business, it's a reflection of your credibility. It's almost like, and I'll take a page from when I did speaker training as a side gig, when people would get up on stage and they would say stuff like if they were unprepared, they would say things like, well, I'm not very prepared today. The kid was throwing up last night and didn't get much sleep, so I'm just going to wing it. If you say that on stage, you're probably, and again, people are very forgiving, but again, I would not trust anybody in business that says they're just going to wing it. I would not take my car to my auto mechanic And if he said the same excuse, ah, you know, the kid didn't sleep well last night, I'm kind of tired and I'm not prepared to work on your car today, so I'm just going to wing it. Winging it has never, correct me if I'm wrong, but winging it in my estimation has never really given you the best results.

Andrea Johnson [00:27:51]:
Oh, I would agree. And early on I did almost full scripts. I still almost do full scripts, but part of it is because I, if I, my husband's a pastor, okay? So it's like he does full scripts, otherwise we'd be there an hour and a half. And I'm the same way. You know, Mark Twain said, it took me a whole lot longer to write this letter to make it this short, because it's a matter of making sure that I say what I need to say. I don't need my podcast episodes to be an hour and a half. I need them to be like 30 minutes for a solo. And so being able, and I agree with you, and of course this is just my opinion, or as we used to say, my humble but accurate opinion. I agree, quality is a reflection of me, right? For somebody like Jenn Hatmaker to sound like she's talking on an iPhone because she's on a vacation somewhere recording a podcast episode, is probably just fine. But if I sounded like I was on an iPhone somewhere in my backyard, it might not work so well. And I don't know, but that's just who I am. Mine is always going to be a little bit more on the professional polish side. I just, because I'm kind of still kicking tradition in other areas, I'm wondering if that's not a traditional piece we are hanging on to, like even from media and radio. Because there's a certain standard that you need to meet with radio, right? I mean, it's like, I remember when I worked in that, even though it was radio promotions, right? I was never in the studio or anything. It was like dead air was the worst thing in the world that could happen to you. Even just taking a long pause or a lot of these, and I don't know if this is a trend or something that's going to go away. I hope it does, but cutting out people's pauses, that removes, like you said, speaker training, that removes all of the curiosity. It removes all of the interaction that my brain might have with the speaker. Removes all of that. And I just, I don't like watching these little clips on that they put on social media from a podcast where they've cut all of my pauses out. I put them in there on purpose. Thank you very much. Because I understand, like you said, speaker training. I understand how to give a cadence to something. I think there's a reason why we say certain things. There's a reason why some podcasts do really, really well, even if they don't say a whole lot, because they're easy to listen to. They don't bother your ears. They give you something that you can take away. And you know that you're better off for having been there. And that's really kind of what I want my media to be.

Carl [00:30:06]:
Yeah. And that's a very good perspective. And I agree with you. And I think, again, maybe it's our former media hat that we're wearing. And again, same thing, I will do certain pauses for effect, but I think where we're getting into the— not getting into the weeds, but we're separating the— and again, this is sort of like separating, as I call it, separating fly poop from pepper, right? It's like, which one do we keep? I'll give you an example. Somebody asks a question, and if it's video, fine. But if you're listening to the audio version, because there are still audio platforms out there, you're listening to the audio version, and the person at the other end of the question pauses for quite a while. And I just did that for effect, so I hope my editor leaves it in there, which I think if I just gave him that cue, he will. Definitely is distracting. And if it's that distracting all the time, when you do some— not you personally, but just with the research that I've looked at, What are some of the things that tune listeners out? It's lower quality, dead space, content that isn't relevant. And the content that I'm thinking of is, oh, that's a really good question. I never thought of it that way.

Andrea Johnson [00:31:09]:
Hmm.

Carl [00:31:10]:
Oh, wow. Let me think about this. Gosh, Andrea, I don't know how to answer this question. That's not relevant to the conversation. A pause for effect, like if you're on a stage. This is a stage, right? We both agree that this is a stage.

Andrea Johnson [00:31:24]:
This is my next stage. That's what she said to me. Is podcasting your next stage? Absolutely.

Carl [00:31:29]:
The next stage. That should be a podcast. It probably is already. Well, if you're doing it for effect, viewers know that, listeners don't. That's why if there is a pause for effect, it needs to be shorter. This sounds like I'm actually editing the episode. I'm not. But I love the fact that you bring that into perspective. And I like the authenticity piece because I think people do it for the right reasons. They do it for the authentic reasons. But one of the things that you indicated was, you know what, every now and again, those little snippets, even if you're doing it for you to be raw and real, little snippets of the phone ringing, a cat walking across the screen or whatever it is, is that authentic?

Andrea Johnson [00:32:05]:
Or is it just unprofessional?

Carl [00:32:06]:
Or is it distracting from— and again, I always look at it from another perspective as well of who's my audience? Is my audience critical? Is my audience high-level managers or CEOs? Who are going to go to go, that's not professional, can't hire them. Because I think that's— I think what I'm getting at is the level of who is your audience. If your audience doesn't care, they'll never care. They'll care. But if their audience isn't overly concerned about, that's fine. But if you're looking at bringing in 8, 9-figure income earners and they see all these little nuances, they might not be as inclined to connect with you.

Andrea Johnson [00:32:45]:
And I do. I actually feel comfortable offering my podcast, video or audio, to the CEOs and the founders and the executives, just because that means I know that I have put out something that I'm proud of, that I can stand behind, that if I come in and do a workshop for your group, they are going to get the same thing, right? I know, like I said, it's my free museum, so there's a purpose to it. It's not just a place where I have conversations, and it is something that actually helps build, and I teach there too. But yeah, this is a good conversation.

Carl [00:33:13]:
You know what? I could talk about this forever. So we'll have to schedule a call or another recording to carry on the conversation because I do want to move along and give you the opportunity to share with individuals what's the best way for them to connect with you and what are some of the things that, or how can you assist people?

Andrea Johnson [00:33:30]:
Sure. I mentioned core values a little while ago. One of the things that I, the purpose that I am here and why I speak is because I think that the world needs more welcoming, curious, and wise leaders. And all of that has to do with knowing yourself. The first person you lead is the person in the mirror, and after that, you lead the people around you. And whether or not you're in a leadership position in your job or in your family or in your church or your civic organization, it's good to understand what those things are. And you start from the inside out. We always wanna start from the outside in with, tell me what to do. And so I like to say to people, it's not what you do that makes you impactful, it's who you are. So we start with our core values. And so the easiest place to find me is a place that is the name of my business, which is The Intentional Optimist. And that came out of some soul searching that I did to figure out what kind of— what are the words I want to use— life principles that I wanted to live by. So if you go to theintentionaloptimist.com, you can find pretty much anything there. I do have a free download because my specialty is core values. There is a button above my head and it actually says free core values download. I do coaching, I do workshops. I, like I said a minute ago, I'm enjoying getting into other universities, but it is fun to get into teams and help them understand each other. And it is fun to work with especially women leaders who for the first time say, oh my goodness, I had no idea I have this superpower. I can do that thing. And that is my mission. That is what I want to do.

Carl [00:34:56]:
I love it. And thank you so much for your generosity. We'll make sure that those links are in the show notes, of course. As well as the link to Stand Tall and Own It, which is Andrea's podcast. Again, congratulations on the success of that. Before I give you the final thought, you are going to keep podcasting, right?

Andrea Johnson [00:35:12]:
As far as I know. As a matter of fact, the times even when I decided I was going to rebrand, I sat my friend down and I said, okay, so I need to talk about the podcast. I think it's time to— and she goes, please don't say quit. This is her investment. She works a full-time job. So if I tried to quit, she probably wouldn't let me. So no, I don't see us quitting anytime soon. I would love to be one of those people who ends up, you know, when you go into podcasts and you open them up and you say, "500 more episodes, wow." I would like to be that because again, it's a resource and it's a little bit of my journey of how I've grown, but I don't offer anything in there that I don't still stand by. And so it's good stuff. I hope to keep doing it forever.

Carl [00:35:51]:
And I hope you do too. And a valuable resource. And we'll certainly make sure that the link is in the show notes as well, like I said. Before I turn you loose though, record another podcast episode and help people with their leadership and grow amazing businesses. I'll leave you with the final thought.

Andrea Johnson [00:36:07]:
Well, it's Carl, it's the one thing that I wish I could have said to myself when I was, I don't know, 30, 40 years ago. It is good to think for yourself. You have the capability, you have the smarts, you have enough wisdom, and you have enough information right this very second to think for yourself. Don't let anybody tell you who to be. Or what to do or how to do it. Figure it out and learn to think for yourself because that is the best ally you will ever have. It is the best advocate, is the best champion. And when you do that, you will become a good leader.

Carl [00:36:35]:
And I think, Andrea, that's a great place to leave it. Andrea Johnson, thank you so much for being my guest today.

Andrea Johnson [00:36:40]:
Thank you.

Carl [00:36:42]:
And hey, thank you for being a part of the show today. So glad you could join us. Believe it or not, I can't work this magic by myself. So thanks to my amazing team, our audio engineer, Dom Carillo, our sonic branding genius, Kenton Dobrowolski, and the person who works the arms, all of our arms actually, our project manager and my trusty assistant, Julovell Tiongco, known to us here simply as July. If you like what you heard today, let us know. You can leave us a comment or review or even send us a voice note. And if you really liked it, we hope you'll share it with your friends and your colleagues. If you don't like what you heard today, well, please feel free to share it with your enemies. And if you know of someone who would make a great guest on the show, let us know about it. You can get in touch with us by going to our show notes where all of our connection points are there, including the links to our website, LinkedIn, and Facebook as well. And if you're ready to be a guest on podcasts or even start your own show, let's have a conversation. We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space and rock it because After all, we're Podcast Solutions Made Simple. Catch ya again next time.