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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 113: 2025 NFL Draft Discussion w/ Luke Easterling
Luke Easterling, NFL Draft expert from Athlon Sports, provides deep insights on the Jaguars' options with the fifth overall pick in the 2025 NFL Draft and discusses key prospects who could transform the team.
• Jaguars should prioritize selecting a star player at pick #5 rather than trading down, since they already have ten total draft picks
• The elite tier of this draft class includes only three players: Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, and Ashton Jeanty
• Ashton Jenty represents a special running back talent that could bring game-changing explosiveness the Jaguars currently lack
• Mason Graham is a top-10 talent but the interior defensive line class is deep enough to find similar value in rounds 2-3
• Tyler Warren offers George Kittle-like versatility and could be the tight end that transforms Jacksonville's offense
• Emeka Egbuka stands out as the most polished route runner in the draft who could perfectly complement Brian Thomas Jr.
• Tate Ratledge is unlikely to fall to the third round despite being a perfect fit for the Jaguars' offensive line needs
• Offensive line talent drops significantly after the first two rounds, making it crucial to address early if seeking an immediate starter
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Luke's 2025 NFL Mock Draft: Final 4-Round Projection for Draft Week
James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Still running. And no, that's it. No, no. Touchdown Jacksonville 109 yards. Incredible, incredible Play action. Votals Upstairs Wide open. Tommy Bohannon Touchdown Jacksonville.
Speaker 2:Looking for Jimmy in the end zone. Touchdown Jaguars, touchdown Jaguars, touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hey everyone, phil Smith here. Welcome back to another episode of Touchdown Jaguars. This week, for our final episode before the NFL Draft, we had NFL Draft expert Luke Easterling on from Athlon Sports to discuss where the Jaguars could go in the upcoming 2025 NFL Draft. Hope you enjoy the episode and make sure you check out the show notes for everything you need as far as Touchdown Jaguars could go in the upcoming 2025 NFL draft. Hope you enjoy the episode and make sure you check out the show notes for everything you need as far as Touchdown Jaguars, as well as all of Luke's work. But without further ado, let's get to our conversation with Luke Easterling.
Speaker 1:All right, touchdown Jaguars audience. We have our Jay. We've been talking about it for months now. We're going to get a guest. We're going to get a guest. Oh, finally, the week of the draft. That time has come and we're thrilled to welcome in Luke Easterling, nfl draft analyst for Athlon Sports, but also does a whole bunch of other writing for Athlon as well. So make sure you check out the show notes of this episode so you can find all of his work as well as his final four round mock draft that dropped here today as we're recording, on the afternoon of April 21st. Luke, so happy to have you here. We'll jump right into it. Before we talk about the draft itself, we want to know what your thoughts are on the direction the Jags have gone in the front office. We've heard your thoughts in the spaces on Liam Cohen, but what about the young GM they hired in, james Gladstone? What are your thoughts on him as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean anybody that's coming from an organization that's done a good bit of winning and done a good bit of innovation in certain ways, like they've done with the Rams. I think that was probably very appealing to Shad Khan and everybody making decisions there in Jacksonville and I think it shows that you know this has happened in the coaching ranks too, where, like all the head coaches and OCs and DCs are starting to get younger and younger and younger and, like teams are being more bold in their decision-making process and bringing in some of these people that you know are younger and more inexperienced but they clearly have their finger on the pulse of the innovative side of the way the game is being played on both sides of the ball, and I think that's being reflected in hires like James Gladstone on the front office side, where you've got these people that have, you know, don't have a ton of years of experience under their belt but they have a keen understanding of the direction that the league is going in all those different ways, and I think that's just reflected in that hire. So I think you know you're seeing some similarities where you know they're getting creative with not doing the top 30 visits like they did with the Rams, and trying to find creative ways to meet with the prospects instead and do it different ways. Everything I've heard from him sounds if I was a Jagu I'd be I'd be excited about the direction that things are going.
Speaker 2:I think that again, it's just there's a lot of trends happening across the league, you know, one of which my favorite one is the fact that they're finally letting all of these incredible college quarterbacks stay as damn quarterbacks and and not moving them to positions that that they haven't played, and so there's so many ways in which NFL I feel like it's finally getting out of their own way and being like, oh, maybe we should do this and stop just doing things the way we always have. And I think that again is reflected in them being willing to give younger guys like James Gladstone a chance, and again, he's going to have to go make his hay with it, he's going to have to make good decisions and they're going to have players, but I think the idea of giving some of these innovative minds a chance to see if they can hang, I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Jay, we're seeing more and more of these younger guys like Luke talked about. You know, just kind of laying in wait and learning and seeing what works and, more importantly, what does not work. And it's been very apparent what has not worked here over the last few years, right, Jay?
Speaker 3:So you know, the youth movement is something we've been calling for for quite some time, for sure yeah, you know we've had this discussion many, many times and we might even say that in the space with luke. But I mean, like for the jaguars, it's not like doing things the old school way and having these older gms has worked for them, like their last two, like higher ups, were tomoughlin and Trent Baalke Like out of that work for him. You know, both of those bear short term success and then, right after they had success, everything went off the cliff. So it's like why not try something new, you know, and fresh and shy kind of kind of he alluded to that when you know they started this search. It's like why not try something fresh and innovative? Right, like we've been there, done that. Let's go with the young kid, youngest GM in the league. So, yeah, man, I mean, I like that the NFL is like kind of learning from its mistakes, because it didn't always be that way, like they kept and it's still that way in some ways, especially with quarterbacks. Right, they can never figure out quarterbacks in this league, but for the most part, though, like they are starting, we starting to see like that youth movement, them being more willing to go the youthful route and what have you.
Speaker 3:But yeah, luke, my question is, man, you know there's a lot of chatter and in terms of what the jazz are going to do and I even saw Todd McShay say today like the draft doesn't start until pick five because everything else is pretty much known, like those first four picks. We know what's going to happen for the most part Travis, hunter, abdul Carter, right and so on and so forth. So, that being said, you know when you get to five, that's when the draft is really going to start and you know the Jazz could trade out, could stay there. You know, time will tell on it. But my thoughts, well, I want to ask about your thoughts on Mason Graham, because there is a lot of talk surrounding him going top five, but a lot of people also have their reservations, like we've seen Pete Prisco recently come out and say, like you know, after watching some more film I don't know, like at one point in time he wanted Mason Graham and it's like he's kind of not there anymore and you see a lot of that, just a lot of wavering, I guess, faith in Mason Graham.
Speaker 3:What are your thoughts on him as a prospect? Is he the route to go with pick number five? And yeah, man, like what does the film say to you in terms of what you've seen out of Mason Graham?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a couple of things on that. I think you touched on the idea of trading out real quick and I think the thing for the Jags is they need to. They need star players. They don't need more. They've got 10 picks already. They've got two thirds, two fourths, two sixths Like they've got the ammo. They've got two thirds, two fourths, two sixths. They've got the ammo. They're picking in the top five. They need a top five player. Go ahead and just take the player. They're not one of those teams. Like Minnesota or Washington, there's teams that are missing those day two picks that they need to move around and recoup those. The Jags are not that team.
Speaker 2:I think the Jags need as much high-end talent as possible and to me that means sticking and picking at five. That said at five, the thing I've said over the last couple weeks about Mason Graham I think he's a really good football player. I think he's top ten on my board. He's the best of a really deep class of interior defensive linemen in this class. But to that end, I think the class is so deep that if the Jags are picking what is it? 37, 36, something like that at the top of the second round, the difference between Mason Graham and the defensive lineman that you can probably get there, whether it's Darius Alexander from Toledo, tyleek Williams from Ohio State, if you need more of a nose, even guys like TJ Sanders from South Carolina, who I really like, the gap between Mason Graham and those guys is just not that big to me. I really don't think that if you're telling me I have to spend the number five overall pick to get Mason Graham or I can get any of those guys I just mentioned in the second round, it makes me feel less inclined to spend that elite pick on a guy like Mason Graham and again, I think he's one of the top 10 players in this draft. I just think that that tier of prospects across all positions, there's three elite guys in this class. To me, it's Travis Hunter, it's Abdul Carter and it's Ashton Genting. That's it. That's that first tier of prospect From four to like 35, there's not a ton of movement there. There's really not a giant difference between those guys, and so I think for a team like Jacksonville I think that's why you're here in the conversation about ashton gentry at five right now coming out of some of these, these insiders with a few days left to go is that, if, if that intel is correct, if it's coming from a genuine place within that building, I think, if I, if I'm james gladstone, if I'm liam cone, if I'm anybody in that process, I'm looking around and i'm'm seeing who are the difference makers in this class.
Speaker 2:There's so few of them. And if Ashton Gentry's on the board when we pick, he's one of those three guys that I mentioned. He's one of those three superstar players Talk about the value of the running back position all day long, but he's a special player and so I think he is where that conversation probably starts. Tyler Warren is the other guy that I would put in that conversation as guys that again, you cleared the path. You got rid of Evan Ingram, so you have an opening there. I know Brenton Strange, recent second round pick, so I know they liked him a good bit.
Speaker 2:But Tyler Warren is one of those guys that I've had him mock to the Jags for about a month now, just because I think that is a pick where I could see Liam Cohen getting involved in the process and saying, man, just get me that guy, get me that guy to help out Trevor Lawrence to transform the offense. He can do everything. He can play in line. He can line up everywhere so he doesn't give up anything in terms of formations, big physical guy. There's so many different ways they could go.
Speaker 2:Mason Graham has always felt like the safe pick for them and I just I hate the idea of safe picks because, a there's no such thing and B I think on film he's a very, very good football player. I just don't see a massive difference between him and the next five or six defensive linemen in this class and I think there is a big difference between Ashton Genting and the rest of the running back class, guys like Tyler Warren. Maybe even Colston Loveland is close to him for me, but that next tier of tight ends is way away. And again, I think if they're going to stick and pick at five, which I think they should do, barring a really stupid trade that could give them additional resources, maybe in next year's draft. That's why I wouldn't be shocked to even see a guy like Jenty, because he's, at the end of the day, he's one of the three truly elite players in this draft and I can't go wrong. If I'm those guys building, if I'm truly going to go best player available, he's going to be that guy man, phil.
Speaker 3:In a lot of ways luke sounds like me, right? These are conversations me and you have had right. I went with tyreek williams in the second round of my only mock right because I didn't and I even said it in the last podcast it was hard to leave mason graham there. I traded back, actually, in my mock. It was hard to leave mason graham there, but at the end of the day I didn't see a big difference between ty league and mason graham, and that's exactly that.
Speaker 3:He summed up my mindset of what I was thinking, Phil, when I made that mock draft. So, that being said, man, you hit the nose on the head with that in terms of how I felt. And then the other thing you mentioned right was just the fact that the Jaguars just need to take the best player there right. Trading back, even though I've done it and Phil has done it, doesn't necessarily help them. And the reason for that is because I've said this too is when you look at the Jaguars, they're kind of in a weird space where they're picking in the top five but all of the premium positions on their team are taken care of. It's kind of odd to see, right, you know, that's well, that's the Trent Baalke effect right. Leave it the Trent Baalke effect right. Leave it for Trent Baalke to get a bunch of premium picks and do nothing with it.
Speaker 2:How did we get here Right? Gee, I wonder.
Speaker 3:Right, there you go. So, no, like they have the quarterback, right, they have. Well, we hope they have the quarterback. They paid him last year. They have Brian Thomas Jr. They have a premium, you know, draft pick there in him, pick there in him. And then they have the defensive end positions as well. So all of the premium positions on this team is set, you know, essentially, but it's just everything between those positions that is not set right. So, yeah, you're right, like when you say that they might just need to stay there and pick the player. That's what the outlook of their roster looks like. It's like, hey, we need to just stay here, add another player with these premium guys. We got to add another premium talent with it, whether it's Jenty or whoever the case may be. But yeah, I mean a lot of things you said there, luke, like I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2:A couple of specific things about Jenty and Tyleek Williams real quick. This whole you know idea that, oh, you can get running backs later. You can get running backs later. Yeah, yeah, you can get running backs later. You can get decent running backs later. The Jaguars have decent running backs. Tank Bigsby is all right. Travis Etienne's all right. I think they work well together. Are either of those two guys scaring anybody on a regular basis? Are they superstar players? No, and that's okay. Again, you can get productive running back, especially in this class loaded running back class. I think there's going to be really productive runners on the board in the fourth round.
Speaker 2:Do you want a special one? Because if you want a special one, you've got to take them early. You've got to take them at two, like Saquon Barkley. You've got to take them at eight, like Bijan Robinson, At 12, like J. That's where you have to draft those guys If you want somebody special, and we've seen how the special ones make a difference.
Speaker 2:Derrick Henry, who was a second round pick he was a little bit of a unicorn in terms of his measurements so people didn't really know what he could be, but that's why those guys got paid. Christian McCaffrey was a top 10 pick. Like those guys. If you want the special ones, you gotta pay for them. So if you're okay with, okay, you can wait until the third or fourth round and that's fine.
Speaker 2:If you want the guy that's going to hurdle over people backwards or turn three would-be tacklers into a 60-yard touchdown 20 times a year, like Ashton Gentry just did at Boise State, that's worth the top five top ten pick. It really is. And Tyleek Williams is the guy who, whoever takes him in the draft, their fans are going to be like okay, it's kind of boring, it's whatever. Five years from now, every fan of that team is going to be like hell, yeah, Ty Leak. I'm so glad we took that guy because he's going to make sure that the other team can't run the ball on you. He's going to be the reason every offense is in third and seven plus all the time, because they can't run the ball, because that dude is eating up double teams, that dude's blowing up plays in the backfield. He's he's boring, he's not sexy, but he is the type of player that a couple years down the road you can be like man. I'm so glad that guy's on my team I agree.
Speaker 3:I agree. I mean, that's the guy you want eating double teams for mason smith, right, they? They have something there in mason smith, I believe at least he just got a lot, yeah.
Speaker 3:So like pairing him with with with Mason sounds like a great idea to me, and you're right about the whole thing. Sometimes you have to ask yourself and I struggle with this personally to taking running backs in the first round. But I'm also, secondarily, a Falcons fan and I've watched what B John Robinson has done for them. He's a walking first down, right, yeah, so there's that.
Speaker 2:Every time those guys touch the ball, everybody else who is opposed to them is like, ah, damn it, do it, don't, do it, don't. Uh, you're scared, you're freaked out every time that guy touches the ball. Like those guys aren't in the fourth round, you're not going to get those guys in the fourth round. You're going to get guys like brian robinson jr in washington great, solid running back, gonna get you my, uh, my buddy, doug farrar, who works with me at athlon sports, told me today we were doing our podcast and he was like brian robinson is the guy who, if you need four yards, he'll get you five. If you need seven yards, he'll get you five. Like that, those types of running backs, they do grow on trees, like they're everywhere. Like you can get those guys, man, if you want the guy that. Every time he touches the ball, everybody else is like, uh, I don't know what he's going to like, I'm scared about what's about to happen. Those guys don't come cheap.
Speaker 3:You're right, and I look at it from this perspective, with like when Bijan touches the ball, even people that are in position are out of position. Like it's literally like it's funny. To me when I watch him on film it's like, yeah, that dude was in position to make the play. He still didn't make the play.
Speaker 2:It's so many times you can see that on film with bijan, so for you to say guys, just like chasing him down, feel like I had you.
Speaker 1:I was there. I was there, I knew where you were going. Yeah, a lot of good it did. You guys see me?
Speaker 2:I knew you were gonna be there.
Speaker 3:I knew you were gonna be there. And then the last thing I'll add is the last time the jaguars took that kind of a gamble, if you want to call it that, it paid dividends. That was Leonard Fournette, right, and we you know to this day. You know, say what you want about Tom Coughlin and that regime, but when they took Leonard Fournette to help Blake Bortles, they almost went to the Super Bowl. So that's a. You make a good point there. Like for me to sit here and say that I'm scared to take a running back that high is a little crazy when looking at the facts we just laid out. Like you know, you might make me a gentee guy by the end of this, this podcast.
Speaker 2:I mean, and hey, and I think no offense to to Lenny, you know I'm a Bucs guy and I'll be, uh, I'll be indebted to uh to Lenny, uh, till the day I die for that Super Bowl run man. But Ashton Gentee is a is a better prospect all around as a running back than Leonard Fournette was coming out.
Speaker 3:Wholeheartedly, 100%. Yeah, easily, easily to me. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you touched on some things too that a lot of us I think some people are also having those discussions and also us in the group chat, jay, when we're talking about Mason Graham, because it does seem like and listen, the Jaguars are already not a topic of discussion for national media just because we're the Jaguars. So it seems like Mason Graham is just the plug in the plug in guy for that number five pick. So we can move on and you know we understand why they're in that position not a whole lot to really talk about, but we have been seeing those lines move and when Vegas talks people listen. So we've been hearing the chatter about Jenty. So I'm glad we're getting a lot of this discussion now. So you actually got a little bit ahead of some of the questions we had for Jenty, so that worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2:I was going to say, the more names I threw out there, I was like, yeah, I think I'm probably getting ahead of that.
Speaker 3:But isn't that rich though?
Speaker 2:Isn't afterthought and like now that all the first four picks feel like chalk, now they're becoming interesting to the jacks like oh you're loving me now, aren't you? Yeah, I'm interesting to you now, huh yeah, what is it?
Speaker 1:schefter today said well, don't pay attention to jacksonville, like I mean, we just we've been here the whole time. Yeah, well, just hanging out. But I want to stick with running back because even though you still have mason graham slotted to jacksonville at five, you do have another guy that we are big fans of here in our group and over here in the podcast at pick 126 and RJ Harvey. So I was wondering if you could talk about him. If we don't go the fast and gentry route which Jay and I are both coming around to at pick number five, but say they just go with running back a little bit later, can you talk a little about RJ Harvey? You know a guy that's just down the road from us a guy, that's just down the road from us.
Speaker 3:You know that I like a prospect if I'm willing to talk up a ucf guy because I'm an usf grad so I hate ucf, uh, with a passion.
Speaker 2:And so rj harvey, you know he's gotta have the goods. If I'm if I'm gonna pump him up, but no, I I think I saw somebody I can't remember who it was that was like he could be this year's bucky irving in.
Speaker 2:That they're not necessarily the same prospect where it's just like that fourth round running back that slips through the cracks, that once you go back to the film after he's taken you're like, oh okay, there's something there. Because again it feels like UCF is kind of one of those programs like the Jaguars, where it's like nobody really thinks about it a whole lot until it's time to have you know, a Brandon Marshall or a Dante Culpepper or you, you know somebody coming out of that program. They've had some good ones, but no, rj Harvey, I think, is just a really well-rounded back who is tough between the tackles. He can. He can give you enough explosiveness. He's probably not going to run away from everybody at the next level but he's got some wiggle and and again catches the ball nicely out of the backfield. Just does everything at a high enough level to where he is that type of running back where Ashton Gentry is the cream of the crop, you got to take him in the top five to get him. But if you want a thousand yard rusher who can be on the field all three downs and fill any type of role, rj Harvey checks those boxes Like he can do all of those things at a high enough level to be starting quality and I think again the fact that every time I do these three and four round mock drafts, every time I get to the end of a round, I'm like how in the world did I not get these two or three guys in there?
Speaker 2:And it's always at particular positions, and running back continues to be one of them. I routinely get into the fourth round and guys like Harvey, guys like Dylan Sampson and Ollie Gordon the second there's so many running backs where I'm like man, I've got, I like the fit there. Again, it's not that the Jaguars need another body in that room, necessarily, but with as many picks as they have, if they stay at all of those spots which I don't necessarily expect them to do it just becomes about getting the best value at whatever position you can, and this running back class is just so deep that I think that's going to give a lot of teams, a lot of guys on on third and fourth round where they're just like man. There's just far and away the best player on the board is a running back and Harvey's one of those guys yeah, I was actually going to ask you about that, because I did.
Speaker 1:I think I heard field yates say today that he actually believes the running back class is a little bit overrated, so do you disagree with that?
Speaker 2:yeah, nah, I mean it just. I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. I guess it just depends on what you, what your expectations are then to compare it to, to say it's overrated, like I. Just you know it's.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure what the criteria are, but I mean I can jump through my rankings right here, let's. Let's look at how I have them stacked here. I've got 14 running backs with a fourth round grade or higher, you know. And even there's guys in the fifth round burchard smith from smu, tosh brooks from uh, from texas tech. I like a lot. Um, there's so many guys that I feel like can be productive runners at the next level. And there's all different types too. You got basialotin who's just like absolute straight line, like run through everybody and run away from everybody else. I think Devin Neal from Kansas is probably the most underrated running back in this class. I loved watching his tape. Jaden Blue is going to be a nasty weapon in the passing game man Elite speed and just really, really natural as a receiver out of the backfield can run a full route tree as a running back it's my guy creates so many matchup problems.
Speaker 2:I know camp Scadaboo is a fun guy for a lot of people. He's going to be that thunder to the lightning, you know, in some committee backfield and I think he's going to do really well in that role. Damian Martinez similar type of guy, but no, I don't think that group is like that in his own tier as the second best guy. And then both the Ohio State guys Henderson and Judkins I like a lot. Caleb Johnson from Iowa I mentioned Dylan Sampson, but DJ Giddens from Kansas State I mean there's so many guys in that group that all of them should be gone in the top four rounds and it's probably not going to happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that class is crazy loaded. I have to go back and look and see I think I just have two in my top, like 32. Yeah, between Amarion and Jenty. But I'll have to go back and look.
Speaker 2:But after that, you're right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's where you see that like cluster of running backs. So, yeah, it makes sense, I think my question now. So we were going to ask about, uh, warren, which you already touched on a little bit.
Speaker 2:So what I'll ask Tyler Warren fan George Kittle in Rob Gronkowski's body. I'm not sure who doesn't want that yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3:I was telling Phil that in our last podcast. I love that kid's film man. It was times he was taking snaps out of the backfield.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wildcat quarterback 6'5", 260. Let's go.
Speaker 3:Just doing it all. Man and I love like Loveland is like one of my favorite prospects in the whole draft, like literally one of my favorite prospects in the whole draft, like literally. Like I almost I looked at my computer doc for like two minutes Like I kind of want to put him above Warren. But when you look at what Warren does, like just in totality, just how many things he can do, I was like, nah, I can't do that.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. That's the thing, the difference between them. They're 1A and 1B. For me I like Warren more, just because I think he's more complete. And again, I think, particularly in today's NFL, having a guy that can do everything in the passing game that he does and also be so effective as a blocker and be big enough to line him up in line, and you're not giving your formations away. A lot of these guys like Kyle Pitts or somebody like if he's on the field, if he's in line, you're probably play action, you're probably throwing the ball anyway, because that's not what you're asking him to do.
Speaker 2:Most of the time You're giving things away with how you align and the personnel you use. Tyler Warren's out there. He can be wherever he wants and you still don't know what the hell is going to happen. Colston Loveland is much more in the brand of receiving specialist, big, oversized slot receiver. Basically, it's not that he's not willing in the running game, it's just, you know he's a taller, you know, leaner guy, a little more high cut. He's not going to give you as much effectiveness in the blocking game but man as a pure pass catcher down the field. Every DB is going to be too small and every linebacker is not going to be athletic enough to hang with them. Both of those guys are top 11 on my board, so I'm with you, and there will be teams that have Loveland higher because of what they need from the position.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I'm not losing my marbles for almost doing it.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay. That being said, Luke, could you talk about we'll switch it up a little bit, because you talked about Orrin Could you talk about the tight end class in general, because you know this is kudos to Phil on this, like Phil dug this one up. But Harold Fanning is a guy that, like I, looked at his film. I mean, I've read that he didn't have a great combine, but I looked at his film I was like, yeah, this kid has some potential. Um, and there's a lot of other you know uh people in that down the road, um, uh, helm, gunner helm, so on and so forth. Could you talk about this class in general, because the jaguars do need to like come out of this class with one tight end at the very least right, okay, so.
Speaker 2:So if they don't take a tight end in the first round, both of those top guys are going to be gone, I think. I think 14 is the floor for both of those guys. They'll both be off the board by by the end of the colts pick at 14, you know, accounting for some movement. The next tier has two more guys in it Mason Taylor from LSU and Elijah Arroyo from Miami. I think both of those guys are probably going to be top 50 picks, definitely gone by the end of the second round. I think Taylor could even slide into the back of the first round, depending on the teams that end up in those slots. Again, just fairly well-rounded guys. Arroyo's got a little bit of an injury history. It gives him a little bit of concern there, but just really well-rounded guys that catch the ball well and will block enough.
Speaker 2:And you mentioned Harold Fannin Jr. He's been one of my favorite guys early on. I got a chance to speak with him during the season and interview him and he's got a really unique story. He was basically like a two-star linebacker recruit that nobody really cared to be interested in. I think he had. You know, he had to work really hard to get his grades up, you know to to qualify, and had to have some people vouch for him to get him in the program there at Bowling Green and he he rewarded them by staying there too. A lot of people expected him to kind of enter the portal after you know the 2023 season, cause he had a pretty decent year and he was. He was loyal to that program that stood by him and ended up. I mean, he led all of college football in receiving last season in the regular season All of them receivers, everybody. He put up ridiculous numbers and for anybody that wants to come for him about level of competition because he played in the MAAC, go look at what he did against Penn State and Texas A&M, the two best teams he played. He was one of the best players on the field and he lit them up. He put 100 on both teams, I think, and just was. Again. Go look at the big plays, the explosive plays. He made them against the best competition he faced. He's kind of an athletic outlier. The testing wasn't great. But for anybody who's like, oh, he's kind of small, exact same size as Brock Bowers, so I don't want to hear it. He's almost exactly the same size as Bowers was at the combine. So I don't have a problem with him. I think he's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Terrence Ferguson is a guy from Oregon that I think a lot of teams are going to like Some similarities to Mike Gusecki in Cincinnati in terms of his. Again, he's just a pure pass rushing. You know, pass catching, specialist, matchup weapon in the red zone. You know matchup weapon in the red zone, you know, and possession guy. But he's really athletic. I saw Daniel Jeremiah the other day comp him to Loveland in a lot of ways, where he's basically Colston Loveland light. I think he likes him a little bit more than I do, but he's a lot of fun. You mentioned Gunnar Helm, who I think is solid, but yeah, you know, there's going to be a couple of guys in the first round, a couple of guys in the second, a couple of guys in the third and that are going to be really productive pros at the next level. I think the the depth of the tight end class is pretty solid yeah, I like that class as a whole man.
Speaker 3:And um, yeah, you, you hit the nail on the head with um, with what you said about fanning cooking to uh texas a&m. That was the like the clip that phil showed me, and I don me. I won't call the DB's number or name out, but he cooked one DB in one play twice, shook him twice.
Speaker 2:You got to go home, then you got to go home and try to go wrap on the day you get cooked twice.
Speaker 3:You just keep walking to the sideline. That's what you do, hey, coach man.
Speaker 2:It's not my day.
Speaker 3:Throwing the freshman Phil, just a coach man yeah, it's not going to throw in the freshman. But yeah, Phil, you got the next question. Go ahead, man.
Speaker 1:Really quick to kind of ask what the pairing could be say if. If Bretton Strange is going to be the primary guy, do you have any insight on what you think he could be in terms of in Cohen's scheme?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Cohen. Cohen is a guy who likes to move his tight ends around. He had a really interesting tight end room in Tampa Bay last year where they had Kate Otten who was kind of the move guy that could do some certain things. Didn't have a ton of you know, a huge ceiling as an athlete, but just a really reliable guy. With his hands he can catch the ball, he can move around and line up wherever you need him to Made some really clutch catches for them. But they have a little bit of everything. They got Payne Durham, who's like a big physical target guy. They drafted Devin Culp out of Washington last year, who's like the undersized pure speed guy, and they got Coe Keeft, which is basically like a fullback that they line up all over the place too. So he had a bunch of different types of guys and types of roles. So strange with his athletic profile.
Speaker 2:Coming out of Penn State, I feel like he's got enough size and athleticism to do any of those roles at a high level and I think that's what Liam's going to have to figure out throughout the offseason program. It's like what can I put on this kid's plate and see what he can do at a high enough level to let me know what we are going to need to add to that, to that room. And and I think that's going to be the challenge for him is figuring out how much. How much is he going to be able to do? What are we going to be then missing? And hopefully they've, you know, looked at some tape to try to figure that out, going into this draft, to kind of know what type of tight end they need.
Speaker 2:Like Brenton Strange, as an athlete, I think he had some moments last year, some flashes where you see OK, this is why they probably felt comfortable. Moving on from Evan Ingram, See if he can take that next step. He's basically like the Parker Washington of the tight end room where he saw some of those flashes last year, and you're like let's give this kid a little more, let's put some more on his plate Both Penn State guys, by the way. But yeah, I'm interested to see how, how liam cohen kind of pushes the envelope with what he's capable of in all those different areas.
Speaker 1:The parker washington of the tight end room is spot on. That's like the perfect, the perfect way to explain brent. Strange because, yeah, the you know, the fan base certainly wasn't really on board with him at first and then, you know, as the season went on, things kind of started to change a little bit.
Speaker 2:So obviously with him having a bigger role, uh, you know, very interested to see, I think I think he's kind of a prisoner of going a little earlier than people thought to.
Speaker 2:You know when, when you have a guy like that who is a second round pick that a lot of people didn't expect to be a second round pick, it's almost like we get in this and again I'm I'm part of the problem, like I'm one of those media people that has like a top 300 board that goes like just top to bottom without any like indication of like team fits and scheme fits and everything like that.
Speaker 2:So I'm even guilty of looking at a board and being like, oh, he was number 76 on this board and he went 48. That's a, that's a reach sometimes, but sometimes not. So I think, for I think for jags fans in particular, like they were probably a little sour on it because they didn't expect him to be a second round pick and so they're just like he better be worth it. It takes time, man. It takes time for guys, especially like athletic types that weren't as polished. I'm excited to see, uh, what he does in this upcoming season, but I think that's probably part of why the jaguars fans are like have a little bit higher expectations for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also take you back to that draft, Jay. Remember we're mocking every other tight end in the draft to the Jaguars and everyone was like who the hell is Brenton? Strange? So that was also that also played into it as well.
Speaker 2:So one guy haven't.
Speaker 1:Googled. Yet who is that I? Who is that I didn't type him into Twitter? Hold on now.
Speaker 3:Phil, I did tell everybody that that was the guy that Todd McShay had mentioned in one of the conferences.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I was like wait, wait, hold up, hold up. I have heard of this guy.
Speaker 2:He's like I tried, I tried.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, to kind of keep it in the realm of pass catchers, it seems like your mindset is also where ours is in terms of taking a wide receiver early. You have Luther Burton III at pick number 36 in round two, and the pick right before that is Jay's guy, emeko Igbuka, who's going to Tennessee. So I want to see if you can talk about those two prospects.
Speaker 2:That's doubly bad. That's doubly bad. I gave him to the Titans right ahead of you guys, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to the Titans right ahead of you guys, sorry, yeah, there's been that chatter from Mio O'Brien right, jay that if Ibuka is available at 36, they're going to sprint to the podium and take him from what she is hearing. So talk about those two guys and what you see in them, and also just kind of the wide receiver class in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I gave him Luther Burton III because it's just like it's crazy that he would be on the board there and I think that would usually they end up with a corner in that spot because I like the corner depth there. But if, if any of those, if burden or abuka again emeka abuka is somehow underrated in this class and I don't understand why this is a probably would have been a first round pick last year, but just like every other, you know underclassmen on that team last year they were too pissed off by how the season ended. They all came back to win a championship and they went and did it. But Ibuka was already like a polished pro-ready receiver last year, like coming out of the 2023 season. He was ready to make an immediate impact. So now he's got another year of experience, another year of polish Just the most polished pure route runner in the entire receiver class Absolutely got a first round grade from me, ahead of guys like Matthew Golden, ahead of Luther Burden III.
Speaker 2:Nabuca ended up in again one of the 24 first round grades I gave out this year. So I just at worst, he could be one of the best number two receivers in the league as a rookie and I think he's going to be one of those guys that is just going to play a long time and play really, really damn good football for his entire career. And when we look back we realize, wow, there were some flashier guys that you know created some more explosive plays, I guess. But nobody from this class was as consistently productive, and productive right away. Because, again, he's so polished as a route runner and has a great understanding of the game. I think he's going to make an immediate impact.
Speaker 2:Just great hands, does all the little things well and most of the big things as well, as you need him to do, and just because he doesn't run a 4-3. But again, you look at a team like Jacksonville, that's exactly the guy they need. They have the splashy guy. They've already got that guy. Give me Emeka Ibuka all day long. I guess I wouldn't be shocked if he makes it to the second round, just because there's only 32 picks and and those guys who aren't quite as flashy tend to fall sometimes. But, man, it's just hard for me to believe that that that guy with the experience he has, the polish, he has, the well-rounded skill set he has, if he doesn't go in the first round man. What the what the hell are we doing?
Speaker 1:So early on in this process, you know Jaguar fans were pretty much, I'll say, penciling in, not maybe putting it in pen, but Tedaro McMillan was the guy to pair with BTJ. What's your read on him? Because again, we're also seeing, we're seeing a lot of people talk about that him being now back in play for pick number five. Where does he fit in your talk about like not, you know, going safe is not how you want to go. What's your thought on if McMillan were the pick number five? Where does he fit in your you talked about like not, uh, you know, going safe is not how you want to go. What's your thought on if McMillan were the pick in five?
Speaker 2:I mean I wouldn't hate it. Uh, again, it's. It's he's number nine on my board overall, so I haven't bought into the whole. There were, like it feels like the last month, like before this week, the last month was just like this teardown McMillan campaign where everybody's like, oh, he's gonna go 23rd to the Packers and I'm like what happened? Like what did he lose a foot? Like what are we talking about? Like are we talking about the same guy? And so like the thing that I've heard again from some of the national guys is like some scouts have told them I'm not a sources guy, I don't have scouts. Scouts will talk to me. That's not my game, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that guy, but I don't have scouts. Scouts will talk to me. That's not my game, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that guy. But I'll repeat what they told them, which is evidently that he he's always on cruise control, right, he doesn't. He likes like everything is so effortless that it does Like he kind of relies on the fact that he's just bigger and more athletic than everybody and like I to you can't ignore that, like that privilege is what it is Like. But the thing to me is I come back to the fact that there's only so many human beings on the planet that are that big and that athletic that can play the wide receiver position. And so you know, obviously I'm a Tampa guy.
Speaker 2:I've watched Mike Evans for a long time. He's not Mike Evans, he's Mike Evans. He's 20 pounds lighter than Mike Evans was coming out of Texas A&M. He's not nearly as physical, but he's also a better route runner than Mike Evans was coming out. Mike Evans was, you know it was him and Johnny Manziel. It was a lot of go that way, mike, and just be better than everybody else. And that worked really, really well for the Aggies for those two seasons. But you know, so he's.
Speaker 2:He has everybody who's comparing him to Evans. It's not really, they're just big and and athletic and that's not. It's not a one-to-one comparison. But again, there's some things that Mike did really well that he's not quite there on and there's some things that he does well, you know, better than Mike did coming out. I think Drake London is is probably a better comp. Drake wasn't quite as tall but there's there some similarities there. There's smoothness, he's pretty smooth.
Speaker 2:After the catch I could see the vision to pairing him with Brian Thomas Jr and giving opposing defenses a really, really problematic decision to make, because you can't roll coverages either way, and so somebody's going to be one-on-one, somebody's going to have a mismatch. It's either over the top or it's the fact that a guy like McMillan is open even when he's covered. I mean, if you trot out those two guys, week one, trevor Lawrence is not going to be sad about that whatsoever and, like Jay said earlier, they paid him already. So this ship is going to go down or not. With how Trevor Lawrence performs, I've got no problem. It's the same reason we had the conversation about ashton gentry and tyler warren at five. The biggest reason is because how do we help this quarterback that we've already invested in to be the franchise guy? How do we make sure that we hit on that?
Speaker 3:give him one of those guys, and mcmillan I would absolutely put in that conversation yeah, yeah, no, I, I, so I don't have them as like rated as high as you do. You said said top 10. I think I got them rated like 17th, so I mean it's not like that big of a spread. But yeah, I put them like 17th on my big board, I think like the more I watch at Buka though I wasn't like in on his game until like I really watched it and I almost put him first in this class, like I almost put him over Golden class, like I almost put him over golden, which phil would hate it. Phil's a texas guy, but I did.
Speaker 2:I put him over golden, sorry, phil. Yeah, it is what it is, fine, um, but yeah, it's okay to be wrong, nobody's yeah, no, no yeah, but no, you kind of um.
Speaker 3:You made some good points right about like he's. I never seen him as mike evans either. Like mike evans ran like a freaking four, four, four, three, by the way, coming out of college.
Speaker 2:By the way, if I think it was four, five flat, but he was six, five, two thirty five, like right. He's basically a small tight end and ran like almost in the four, four, like that's. That's stupid, that's insane.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like we had never seen anything like it at that time. You know, like not that big, at least. Um, so, yeah, that's. It was like, wow, like this guy's. Something else man shout out to mike evans but yeah, man, like this, this class does excite me as a whole. Yeah, they definitely got to get a guy in the first three rounds. I would think, um, I don't know about you and phil on it, but they need a number two beside Brian Thomas Jr. He is currently not on this team. But yeah, man, I appreciate your insight on that man. Phil, you got any other questions?
Speaker 1:No, we have one more that you have, that we have listed here.
Speaker 3:Oh, I missed it.
Speaker 1:You wrote the questions I wrote the questions. James is like I have another question. You wrote the questions out. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you're right, and this is one of my guys.
Speaker 3:Man, how did I miss this? Uh, but yeah, no. Another position they need to address, like in the top three rounds, luke, is offensive line. I think they need to come out of this draft with a start in offensive line. I mean, now I know they got three guys in free agency, but you know, I don't think they got but one starter of those three guys out of free agency for the starting offensive line. That's makari.
Speaker 3:Of course, like the money, which isn't like crazy money, but it's enough for you to say like this guy has to start for at least the first two years of his contract. Makari is the only guy that I can really like pencil in in free agency that they got. That should start right, and then the other guys were already on the team. What are your thoughts on this overall? Like offensive line class, because I think the Jaguars are going to be in a position where they probably won't be able to address it until like round three. Basically, do you think like there is depth there past round two for them to be able to get a starter Like my guy that I keep penciling in and a lot of Jazz fans keep penciling in and Phil likes him too. Tate Ratlidge from UGA.
Speaker 2:I knew it was going to be Tate Ratlidge.
Speaker 3:That's my guy man. I like Tate man, but is it any others like in that range with him that you can see them maybe get in like round three or four, Because I mean that's kind of like the round specialty. By the way, talking about James Gladstone and where he came from, that's their hit range. Is that third, fourth, fifth round, sometimes like Kyron Williams, right, puka and some others that are escaping my mind right now. But yeah, like, can they find like some starters past round two?
Speaker 2:I think it's going to be tough. I'm not going to lie. I think both the tackle and the interior offensive line classes I really like the guys that are probably going to go in those first two rounds and then it gets real skinny, real fast. I think especially there's some developmental guys I like in that range but you're starting to get out of the range Again. Tate Rattledge, for me, is a top 50 player in this draft. I feel like I said this the other day to somebody.
Speaker 2:I think we've gotten too obsessed with versatility when it comes to offensive linemen nowadays that we don't see a high quality starter staring us in the face when he's only played one position. My man, tate Rattledge, went to the right guard spot and said this is where I live. I'm going to stay here for three years and just play really good football and do this really, really well. And that's what he did. And then he went to the combine and lit it up. He is huge, he is athletic and he is experienced against top competition at that spot. So if you want to be able to plug in a guy at right guard, he's the guy, I agree. I just don't. I don't think that guy makes it to the third round. The experience, the athleticism again playing in the SEC. I don't know that goes like you know. Jonas Savanea from Arizona is the same way. Donovan Jackson, ohio State Again I think those are round two guys. Gray Zabel could be a first round guy, same with Tyler Booker. So Same with Tyler Booker. So that's all your interior guys and you're starting to get into that. Maybe it's Marcus Bowe from Purdue who's played some tackle, but I think he's probably a center at the next level. Jared Wilson, the center from Georgia, is probably going to go earlier than a lot of people think. Jackson Slater from Sacramento State is that Now we're starting to get into that Rams specialty, like middle round, small school developmental type guy that I think would be really good.
Speaker 2:Jalen Rivers out of Miami, dylan Fairchild from Georgia, miles Frazier from LSU those are guys that into the third and fourth round now maybe you're hoping they can start.
Speaker 2:They've played at a high level in big conferences but their film in terms of what they bring to the table has some inconsistencies that you wonder about them being able to start right away, which again getting into the fourth round and expecting to get starters.
Speaker 2:It doesn't happen very often, and so if they're not able to get one of those guys and the tackle class is kind of the same way there's some guys that I could see getting to the third or fourth round that have you know Anthony Belton from North Carolina State, emery Jones Jr from LSU who have some experience. But I really do feel like there is a significant drop off after the first two and a half rounds or so that if the jags don't address that, it's probably going to be a later round developmental guy that that's not going to make an immediate impact well, phil, we got to stop mocking tate to the jags in the third round, so I just don't see it happening and look honestly, look at the other teams too, especially look at the teams picking on the back end of round two Baltimore, houston.
Speaker 2:So many teams that if he's on the board when they're picking and they haven't, then they didn't go. You know, interior in the first round, which they're unlikely to do. He just fits way too many teams in that range that I just the idea that he would make it to the third is is I. I had to give up on that a while ago too, because he was in my third round in my box for a while and then after the comment I was like, ah, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 3:I mean, you're right, Like when I watched the film like he doesn't feel like third round material, which is that's still when you're talking about third round players, you're still talking about really good players still but he doesn't feel like he should go in the third round. I want to ask one more question. This he should go in the third round. I want to ask one more question. This is a guy that you hit the nail on the head with the comparison. It came to my mind the day before you tweeted this. I saw it Memboo man. You compared him to Tristan Wirfs and I was saying that same thing, like three days ago. I was like I finally and I'm not a comparison guy I'm terrible, I hate him, I hate pro comparisons.
Speaker 2:I I'm terrible, I hate them. I hate pro comparisons. I only say them when they jump out at me. I can't stand them. I like stupid ones, like somebody comped Cam Scadaboo to Gimli from Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1:Like I was about that, like that's fine, right, that could be a whole article. You should definitely do that.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean. Like, I like the silly comps. We were talking about Willie Lampkin from North Carolina, the short offensive lineman, and I said he was like three Kirby Puckets in a trench coat sideways Like. Those are the comps I'm here for.
Speaker 3:Nick Emanwuri is Kawhi Leonard Like those are the types of comps I'm here for.
Speaker 2:But no, I agree with you, man. When I saw Membu play and again, this is high praise coming from me you know I'm a Bucs guy. I've watched all of Tristan Wirth's. He is a Hall of Famer right now. He is the only tackle in the history of the National Football League to be a first-team All-Pro as a right tackle and then switch to left tackle and be first-team All-Pro as a left tackle. He's the only person to have ever done that. That's insane. So for me, to comp anybody to that guy is high praise and I think honestly that's why you're seeing them start to get mocked to the Raiders. Because who's the GM in Las Vegas now? It's John Spitek, who spent all of he drafted Tristan Wurst. He's part of that front office. He knows what that type of guy can mean.
Speaker 2:Armand Membu is the number four player on my board. He is the first guy after that elite tier of those three guys that I mentioned earlier. First guy after that elite tier of those three guys that I mentioned earlier, it's Armand Mbembe with four for me. So that tells you what I think of him. Everybody's going to be like oh, he's the right tackle. Who cares? Absolutely. Elite athlete who is dominant, whose film is amazing. Who put every SEC rusher in the dirt. Who finishes man. I love that dude.
Speaker 3:He's one of my favorite players in this draft. Me too, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I've been talking to us for a few weeks now. Man, I would be totally okay with it.
Speaker 2:I would be, I'd be, I'd be over the moon about you cannot go wrong taking elite offensive linemen with rare athleticism and really good tape in the sec I think I gotta do that.
Speaker 3:Seven on my big board and I almost put him higher too. He was one of those guys I struggle with with like loveland and em like not putting them higher than they were. But so the reason like I I started to like become like hip to him is I was watching Javon Foster last year. Cause print ballkeeper drafted Javon Foster and you're like let's look like he might not even make the team We'll see no disrespect to him.
Speaker 3:But that being said, like when I was watching Foster last year, I kept getting stuck on a dude across from him. I was like who is this massive kid just like moving people around like nobody could do anything with them. And here we come, we roll around. I was telling Phil like last month I was like Phil, I know where I remember Mimble from. He was the dude that I kept talking about last year when I was telling Phil like last month I was like Phil, I know where I remember Mimbo from. He was the dude that I kept talking about last year when I was watching Foster and I kept getting sidetracked from watching Foster.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like he. He's asked Trent if he thought he was picking.
Speaker 3:Mimbo. You know what Did he watch? The film backward Was his screen mirrored or something.
Speaker 2:Was his face in the wrong way? He thought he was getting 79?.
Speaker 3:Shame on me and Phil, because we've shared a press conference room with Trent Baalke and we should have asked the right questions.
Speaker 2:Hey, missed opportunities. We've all had them.
Speaker 3:Right, right, but yeah, that's it, man, unless, like I said, phil, I think you said you're good, you don't have anything else, right?
Speaker 1:No, I think you said you're good, you don't have anything else, right? No, I think we're good, luke. I guess the last thing I want to ask you very important question, alluding to the discussion we were having before we got on Are you a 2017 Power Rangers truther, like I am, and saying that that was a good movie and they should have gotten another shot? Phenomenal movie.
Speaker 2:Absolutely loved that movie. Great reinvention, great new twist on it. I mean Daiquiri Montgomery was fantastic, we have Brian Cranston, elizabeth Banks were great I'd love and obviously the cameos at the end were great. No, that was fun, man, I agree Diehard, diehard fan and I am absolutely a truther on that movie. It was a win.
Speaker 1:Perfect. I don't even remember anything else we talked about. But, luke, thank you so much for coming on here today, please. As I mentioned to everybody, the your final four round mock draft dropped here today, april 21st, but you also have some stuff coming up leading up to Thursday. If you could, please let everybody know where they can find that, and everything will also be linked in the show notes of this episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. So the top 300 big board is up. I've got uh links to a lot of the player scouting reports that you'll find in the athlon sports uh nfl draft magazine that we put out every year so you can click on those player names that that light up and you can see the scouting reports on those guys as well. Same for the four round mock draft. Um, I'll have a final first round mock draft thursday morning, the morning that the draft kicks off, which will actually be like the only.
Speaker 2:The only time I ever try to get the picks right is that last mock draft. Every other one is just trying to present as many different scenarios as possible so that fans are kind of ready for everything. But that last one on Thursday morning will just be the first round. That'll be me actually saying, hey, this is what I actually think is going to happen tonight. And then all through the draft, I'll be live grading every first round pick on Athlonsportscom. I have a ton of analysis. Right after that I'll have a day two mock draft immediately after the first round Best available players. Same for the fourth round on day three, and then we'll get into the undrafted free agents and before you know it, man. You'll be seeing Arch Manning at the top of my 2026 mock draft way too soon.
Speaker 1:There we go, luke Easterling of Athlon Sports. Thank you so much for the time and we hope to speak to you soon.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, man. This was a blast. This is. We waited too long. Let's do it again. Thanks, luke.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it.