Conversations with Good Humans

Meg Rentschler- Clarity for Coaching

August 26, 2022 Catherine Brown Episode 24
Meg Rentschler- Clarity for Coaching
Conversations with Good Humans
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Conversations with Good Humans
Meg Rentschler- Clarity for Coaching
Aug 26, 2022 Episode 24
Catherine Brown

Mentor, coach, or therapist? Sometimes it's a challenge to know what help is best as you're moving forward. Meg Rentschler, mentor to coaches, professor of coaching at the University of Texas at Dallas, executive coach with her own clients AND podcast host of STaR Coach Show, wears all these hats. 

She knows how to talk with people and how to train people to become coaches. I really enjoyed getting some tips on my own coaching calls with clients and I think you will too. 

This podcast episode will help you be a better communicator with your own clients. Or, if you're wanting to move into coaching, this episode is for you. 

Mentioned in this episode:
STaR Coach Show with Catherine episode 299
Meg Rentschler on LinkedIn
STaR Coach Show with Kemia Sarraf episode 232
A Focus on Results
Coach Academy International

Music composed and arranged by Luke Brown. Find him on TikTok @lukasaftermidnight

Show Notes Transcript

Mentor, coach, or therapist? Sometimes it's a challenge to know what help is best as you're moving forward. Meg Rentschler, mentor to coaches, professor of coaching at the University of Texas at Dallas, executive coach with her own clients AND podcast host of STaR Coach Show, wears all these hats. 

She knows how to talk with people and how to train people to become coaches. I really enjoyed getting some tips on my own coaching calls with clients and I think you will too. 

This podcast episode will help you be a better communicator with your own clients. Or, if you're wanting to move into coaching, this episode is for you. 

Mentioned in this episode:
STaR Coach Show with Catherine episode 299
Meg Rentschler on LinkedIn
STaR Coach Show with Kemia Sarraf episode 232
A Focus on Results
Coach Academy International

Music composed and arranged by Luke Brown. Find him on TikTok @lukasaftermidnight

Do you think sales is a bad word? When you hear the word sales, 

I wonder what images come to mind, whatever your relationship is with selling. I'm glad 

you're here. Let's have a conversation about how to sell like a good human. Hi, 

welcome to conversations with good humans. I'm your host, Catherine Brown and I'm author of the book called how good humans sell.

Today on conversations with good humans. I'm talking with Meg Rentschler mentor to coaches, professor of coaching at the university of Texas at Dallas, an executive coach with her own clients and the podcast host of star coach show. As I'm releasing this episode of my podcast, Meg is celebrating her 300th episode of STaR Coaches show.

Definitely are gonna wanna check that out. One of the things that makes Meg a fascinating person to talk with is her former career. As a therapist, between being executive coach and a therapist, she really knows how to talk with people. And she also has learned how to train other people to become better coaches.

I've got some free coaching through this podcast, and I bet you will too. So I hope that you enjoy some of the tips that she. Recording this interview with Meg was a real joy also because our conversation flowed so naturally, and I think you'll enjoy listening to that. I'm a big believer in the value of coaching.

And you'll hear that come through loud and clear. This episode is for you. If you would like to be a better communicator with your own clients, Meg's advice to slow down and consider the stories that we tell ourselves. Is worth the price of admission. I think it will help you with your clients with your personal life, who knows how many things it could spill over into enjoy 

Meg. One of the things 

I'm wondering is. You get to have a front row seat when you're coaching people and hear them use emotional words to get a sense of what they're believing to be true. I, I know from having been coached a little bit, that's part of the process. Mm-hmm  you have such a unique perspective having been.

A counselor prior to going to coaching as well. So I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about how you see a person's beliefs inform the emotions that they say they're experiencing. 

Such a good question. And Catherine, I really think that this thing that we're talking about at this moment is the key to empowering people.

It is the key to moving from feeling victimized or, or that we are. At, at the mercy of whatever situation happens or whatever occurs to actually realizing it's the belief that we have that creates the evaluation or the, the impact that actually ends up. Creating the kind of emotion we feel and the kind of behavior that we engage in, but what, what happens, something happens.

And then that made me feel this way, or I'm responding angrily. I'm storming out of my boss's office because he made me feel this way, or she said this and that. Created this response. So what ends up happening is that there's a complete disconnect between, but what did you think about that thing? What did you, how did you respond through your beliefs about what that person said and how you felt about that?

How you. How you be the belief you had about what that situation was that then triggered the emotion that you feel it's in helping our clients or the people that we talk with children. This is big for children. Yeah. For sales forces to like understand when that person said that thing, there was an automatic belief that was attached to that.

That might be. He must think I'm stupid if he's telling me that or it could be, I, you know, I don't need to, to have, I don't need to be micromanaged. It could be any number of automatic thoughts that occurred based upon that, in that situation. And then we're left feeling the emotions. Are we feeling frustrated?

Are we feeling angry? Are we feeling diminished or discounted? There was a belief that led to that. So for example, that that same situation might happen. My boss comes in, says something to me. I could choose to feel discounted or frustrated about that or that I'm being micromanaged. Or I could be curious about that.

I wonder what led him to. To say that, or I wonder why this decision's being made. How can I ask some questions about that? That would give me more information rather than having the knee jerk response to that. Whatever that belief was. Our beliefs are sort of created through our past experiences. Yes.

Through, I call it the model of the world. So our model of the world, the lens we look through is created by the experiences we've had by the things we've been taught by the cultures we've been grown up. In, and, and those are so part of our thread, Catherine, that they, we just like, we respond to those, they fly under the radar.

So they're very powerful. They fly under the radar. Those beliefs that we have we're acting on. Without realizing that we're acting on him. So the power, the empowerment comes in when we slow down  and we think, what was that belief that I just had that created that frustration, or that's making me feel less than what is the thought that I had when we can identify that that's where we can begin to say.

Well, that's one thing I could think, but what's another thing I could think. What's another, what's another story I could tell myself in this space, instead of the story that's creating, the, the response that I don't wanna have. So Dr. David Burns is huge in the field of, of beliefs and cognitive distortions, his quote.

And I'm not gonna say it exactly the way he does it, but basically what he says is if you don't like the way you're feeling right now, Change what you're thinking right now. Mm-hmm  and that's where the power so good. So I, 

um, I feel like this expression that I've picked up somewhere and I'm thinking while you're talking, I'm thinking, I can't remember where I got this, but I became a fan of the word notice because it feels kind to myself and.

I want to notice what is happening. And I also say that I'm a real fan of the slow down to take stock 


acting. It's a place where you can start to have some agency and catch yourself in the middle of something before you might act out of a habit. Right. Um, but, but something else you're saying is so interesting to me also, because it reminds me that we are all meaning makers.

And so it's not. With practice I can ever become perfectly objective or that I will be perfectly right. No one will, in my opinion, no one will do that. You know, in this lifetime, 

what is even right, right.  right. Right. Even 

as I recognize my filters, even as I practice asking better questions, I will always be a meaning maker and an interpreter.

What I tell people in the sales context is because you're making meaning anyway, why not? Air generously. 



see what that empowers you to do. So an example would be, they're not getting back to me. They're not getting back to me. They're not getting back to me. I'm so frustrated. They must have done this.

This must mean that this must mean that when really you don't have any of that information. And so I, instead of saying, Don't make up a story at all. I think we can't help it, but we can make up a generous story. So I will say what if you were filled with empathy and you said that poor person must just be so busy, they're doing the very best they can.

And I bet they will appreciate it if I keep trying. And they're an adult and can let me know 

if they're not in. Right. So we want to assume positive intent instead. And I think a knee jerk response tends to be that we go to the worst case scenario instead of if I were to assume positive intent that this person's doing the best that they can in the space that they're in.

Right. What does, what room does that give for my responsiveness to them? Like you said, them pathetic. I have 

another question about something else you said, and I'm wondering, wondering 

if you'll gimme a little bit of live coach training here. Mm-hmm  

how would you ask a question of a person who said someone else made them do something?

Cause I noticed that and I try not to say that because it's not true. Right? Right. No, one's making me do anything really in my life. Right. I mean, I have a very comfortable, privileged life, but really no one's making me do anything. 

So. But that language is easy to use. Mm-hmm  

and it's disempowering. So. And manager were to hear this podcast.

If my audience were to hear this and they said, oh, my significant other says that, or my children say that, or my employees say that mm-hmm  what do you do live in that situation when you hear that? What do you 

say? Right. So, so when I, when I hear well, You know, she said this and that made me do this. Or I, you know, this situation made me respond this way.

First of all, I, I might ask a question, like if you were to own your power back in that situation, what would shift for you or, um, You know, there was, there was a thought that went through your mind when sh she said that particular thing that led to the response that you have. So let's slow down. I want you to close your eyes.

Think about when that happened. What was the immediate thought that flashed through your brain in a millisecond that led to the response that you have? I really want to empower my clients to realize, and I want to empower my children and my, you know, and myself to remember that we are evaluating things in a millisecond.

And that is what's leading to the responses that we have. So when. Slow down. And once again, it's not some magical thing that takes your power away and gives it to somebody else. It's really, you may, if you, if you were to own that power back again, what would that look like? How much power do you have in this situation?

If you, you know, where are the places that you're potentially inadvertently letting somebody else take. Take take the, the control or the power. That actually is something. And it's not about being power hungry. I, I sure. We, we talk about the fact that different words mean different things to different people.

Yeah. So what I would say in this is a locus of control when you're, when you're sort of owning your. Part of the big picture, um, versus feeling disempowered or victimized, you, we all have a piece of, of the pie. We all have, like what, what we achieve bad things happen. And yet we, we have an ability to make a decision about how we're gonna respond to the things that happen.

So for your listeners, if you hear that message of well it's, you know, it's not my fault. I. I didn't, it's not about fault finding, but it's like, I, I had to respond that way. Well, if you were to give yourself additional options and just to, let's just play with what other things could have happened, what other, what other ways could you have potentially engaged in that situation?

Because it's a learning moment for us each and every time. So learning moment for our employees, it's a learning moment for ourselves. It's a learning moment for. It's really empowering to help our children understand this. Oh God, because they are our future generat. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm thinking while you're talking, I have some clients, of course, I don't wanna name them.

but as clients, clients who come to mind, who I think it's not even necessarily that someone has had a bad work experience or a bad managing 

experience, I'm 

struck as you're talking about this, how I can think of examples. Someone was in a different role, in a different environment that had its own set of rules and expectations.

Then they changed jobs. They might have more responsibility, more freedom. In this case, these, this, this particular client I'm thinking like everyone works remotely and people, the sales team has so much independence. I mean, they're so autonomous in a very meant to be empowering sort of way. Mm-hmm . But the thing is Meg.

They're the same people that they were before they came from whatever their prior environment was. And so what I'm observing now is I'm interacting is that some people are better equipped than others to self weed, because they might not only do they maybe have the tools or not have the tools to run their day.

Be as proactive all day long in self-management to be effective in sales, but on top of that, they import their prior managers and prior company experiences onto this one. And assume intent assume things. So what, what things that I think are meant from the boss to be empowering and freeing, and this I'm doing this.

Cause I trust you could be interpreted as not enough tools not helping me, not trusting me. It's so interesting to hover over this and watch this. I would avoid saying. They're all being meand the same way, cuz that's not true. We all are doing the best we can, but no one's experience is exactly the same, but I watch one person take the same set of instructions and rules and it's applied differently to each person because 

of the person.

Exactly. Because of the way that it's being. Evaluated by that person. It's like, well, my boss doesn't care about me. He's not checking in on me. He's not seeing if, if I'm good or my boss is, you know, she's so busy with other things that I don't even matter when in fact she might be thinking that person is a rockstar and if they need me, they'll get ahold of me.

And so very, you know, the exact same situation from the two different ends. Total different interpretation. So what do we wanna do we wanna keep communication open? We wanna say, you know, I'm just wondering, is everything going okay? Because I'm kind of used to my manager checking in with me more often than you are.

And I. I'm just not certain what to do about that. It takes courage to open up that communication, right? Yeah. So what do we do instead? We live in a bunch of assumption. Mind reading is a very common cognitive distortion that we mind read. We like decide what somebody else is thinking without ever asking them.

So what I would challenge the listeners to do is what can you do to be courageous in. Just stepping into conversation with people rather than getting into a place of, I know what they're thinking or why they're making that decision, because you might learn amazing things that you had never. Never even, um, thought I remember as a young social worker in Detroit, I had this fabulous director, but I was just positive for whatever reason.

My noodle brain had decided one day, she just doesn't like me. I, I just felt like, you know, maybe she was Brus with me. Lord knows I was in my early twenties. I don't know, but I had decided she did not like me. And I said to my fellow clinicians one day, yeah, Carol just doesn't like me. And they were like, what are you talking about?

They outed me during a lunch. Like we were all having lunch together. And they were like, Carol, make things. You don't like her. Yeah. Like not what I would necessarily recommend, but the look on her face of pure astonishment and. Horror complete confusion and horror led me to, that was a lesson early on at like, where did I come up with that story?

Yes. And it was so clearly that that was not the way that she felt it was embarrassing, but at the same time, it was a great learning lesson for me in. What story was I telling myself because maybe she was busy one day and she walked past me without saying, hello or Lord knows what it was that got that little worm going.

But once those worms go in our brain, we find evidence to support them. Yes, even. And, and so what I would say is before you're down that lane of assumption, ask. How much of this is assumption and how much of this is fact, and really begin to challenge yourself in that. So good. 

Well, I like our listeners are getting live coaching.

Here's a live coaching, practicing things to take, to have more emotional courage in your life, which will. Give you the answers more answers that you want and, and clarity, and probably deepen your relationships with people and give you more fulfilling life, which we all want. So that's so lovely. Um, some of the words you're using are making me think about how you and I've talked before offline about.

Different terms that people use interchangeably that it's actually not correct. And so I think it would be such a gift to our audience if we clarify between a few terms. So I think interchangeably people talk about having mentors and coaches and trainers. And then 

the therapists. Right. And 

I think people, most people understand there, there are some distinctions or probably even bigger distinctions between those.

So particularly with mentor versus coach. Can we talk about that one first? Like what is a coach in your experience in a business setting? Mm-hmm  so a lot of these will be, you know, my audience will be mostly. Right managers mm-hmm  of different kinds, um, and 

different kinds of leaders. Um, but what, what 

is a coach compared to someone who sees themself as a mentor with mentee?

Such a great question. And I gotta tell you, you know, I train over a hundred coaches a year and, and I would say,  that the very fir I get all this. Yeah. I've been coaching for years. And the very first class I do with them is to say, okay, Here's what coaching is. Here's what mentoring is. Here's what teaching is.

Here's what consulting is. And by the end of that very first class, I get all these emails. I thought I'd been coaching all these years and really I've been mentoring or really I've been consulting or really I've been teaching. So I would say in a business setting, If you are mentoring one of your employees, what you're doing is bringing your own experiences forward.

As lessons learned to help them grow and expand and learn from you. We mentor through our life ex. Experiences, we take somebody under our wing because we've been there and we've done that. And we're able to hopefully listen to them and, and INQ and use some inquiry, which is what we definitely use in coaching.

But as a mentor, my hope is that you're also asking. The key thing though, is that you are helping them walk their path through your life experiences. And you're saying been there, done that, and here's what I've learned. And here's what this experience was like for me. And you are using. Experience to help them grow because they're looking to you.

You've been, you've walked the path before me. What did you learn? And you're sharing those experiences. 

And is that sharing the experiences? It'll involve a little bit of teaching, even in informal, 

I would think. Yeah. Like watch out for this. Don't like coaches, coaches really are not. 

Do this don't 

do this.

Not, no, not so much. Now, if we're doing pure coaching and as a manager, I teach coaching as a leadership style all over the country. Leaders love learning how to use coaching in their leadership style, but this is what I hear right out of the gate, but I'm really good at what I do. That's how come I'm in the position that I'm in.

Totally get that wanna honor that. And. I'm willing to bet that when you step into a place of being a coach versus a mentor as a leader, what you're doing first is wondering, what does this other person already know? What are they bringing to the table that I can ask some questions about so that I can.

Well, what have you already tried in this situation? What about this is important to you? If you were to get to the end result that you envision, what does that look like? So what we're doing as a coach leader is we're starting first with some questions before we jump right into telling mm-hmm , there's a thing called the righting reflex and that's R I G H T I N G.

I know the right thing. So I'm going. Get in there and my reflexes to tell you don't do it that way. Do it this way. I know that that's never gonna work. So do it this way. Now I am absolutely certain that the vast majority of people who are listening. Have had oodles of success and they do know many ways.

I would also challenge that there's more than one way that leads to the end result. And so as a leader, who's using coaching what you're doing. Is suspending that writing reflex long enough to just ask a few questions. I say to the, the leaders that I, that I work with, if you were to just stay curious for two more minutes before you got into knowing.

What could you potentially learn from that other person that would a get them to engage in the final result with you? Because they're, co-creating that result with you rather than just being told what to do. And that really opens up what they have to offer. Yeah. And. And you might be amazed. I don't know how many times I've heard from these leaders when I shut up for a minute and really listened to what they had to offer.

Yeah. I, they came up with a solution. I never would've come up with in a hundred years because I was just thinking through this other angle. When coach, when leaders use coaching, when sales professionals use coaching, what they're doing is they're thinking, okay, I've got some ideas, but I'm gonna hold off on those for a minute to, to harvest what this other person can can offer instead.

And then we can co-create and everybody's more on board instead of me telling you what to do, let's figure out together what we're gonna do. Lord knows what incredible creativity could come out of that. Yes. 

And I wonder also if I wonder what percent, I don't know how we could do a study to figure this out, but I wonder what percent of people are interested in being a coaching leader and just don't know how to do it.

And how many actually are not interested because. They actually don't want the solution to be arrived at another way, because that, I think you're 

be not needed. 

Right. Right. And it's so interesting because I wonder if you have this challenge too. Like if I do a great job with people, they might stay, they'll stay in my 

community and refer people to me, but they're eventually gonna stop paying me and coming to classes cuz they're selling well enough without right.

So it's, it's not a great business model.  and yet yeah. People graduate, right. They graduate. So to grow, you have to. You have to attract new ones, keep a certain percent and then keep attracting. And this is the services model challenge, right? As a business model. So you wanna have products, you wanna have memberships, you wanna have other things that bring in money, but it's, there's not a, there's not a never ending sale kind of model.

Um, when you, when it stuff's built around teaching, cuz if people really learn, which you want them to do, they will eventually not need you. And that's been an interesting journey 

for me. To want people mm-hmm  to get to that level of self-sufficiency and then celebrate with them and say like, I, when I get the Stripe notification that says that someone is gonna exit the group, you know, and I look at it, like, I always, my, my heart just takes a little dip.

Like every time I go, oh, and then 

I immediately, I have trained myself. I immediately self correct. And. I think about them and I think, you know what, they don't need to come anymore. Good for them. Yeah, they're doing so good. Like they've done, they've made so much progress and I can see the arc and I'm like, good for you.

You are, you have learned enough, you have absorbed enough. So I think to be, um, like just to love people and to be so generous and not threatened, all of those are prerequisites. I think to have that kind of generous. What do you know, already kind of spirit that you're talking about. And I think it takes a certain amount of self confidence and self love because otherwise it's a threat.

Right? I would agree. And I think that there are leaders who are very invested and I have to be the one to have the answer. I hear other things. I hear Meg. I don't have time to coach people. I don't, I'm just gonna tell them what to do that's quicker. And so what I'll say to them is that's a choice that you have.

I would also say that. As long as that's the case, they will continue to have to come back to you to get that answer. And when you take the time at the front end to empower them and to help them build their decision, making their discernment about what's right. And what's. Better than other things. When you help grow your people, ultimately you end up with more time at the other end be to be able to be more strategic and less tactical, because you're actually empowering your people to step into their roles and do their roles well so that you can do your role.

Well, and I agree with you 100%, it takes a. Confident leader to relinquish control enough to really empower their people. As a coach, I tell my clients all the time, my job is to, to get myself out of a job with you whenever I start with you. So I, I, luckily I believe in, in the concept that there are more than enough people.

Sort of will be available for the next yes. Round, but you're right. As a salesperson, it's always easier to keep a client than to get a new client. And at the same time, at some point I want my clients to not need me anymore. Aren't they progressing? 

Right? Yeah. That's our job is for them to progress. So let's speak our last question because, uh, would you speak a little bit about your former work before you moved into coaching?

And can we talk about coaching versus counseling? Cause I also think that's misunderstood. Because I believe that everybody, at some point in their life probably needs both.  

I think understanding the distinction for yourself and your loved ones is really important because mm-hmm , 

they do operate from fundamental different assumptions and have different goals.

And I only know this because I've had both so super. Interested in having that be imparted to others so that they feel equipped to find the right providers for the right stage for themselves or the, those that are in their care. And I think this is largely misunderstood. 

Oh, I would agree with you. And I also think it's misunderstood by many coaches who come through coach training.

Okay. Cause I'll hear, well, that's an emotional issue. Therefore it's a therapy issue instead of a coaching issue. So what I would say, first of all, as human beings, we are going to have a plethora of situations occurring within our being. We're gonna have emotions, we're gonna have thoughts. We're gonna have experiences.

So. Coaching clients and people who are in coaching are going to bring emotions to the table. That's part of being a human being. Yeah. To me, the difference in counseling or therapy versus coaching is that first of all, often in. In counseling, we're dealing with some, some patterns of behavior and some, uh, issues that are more deeply embedded, embedded in creating a block of getting wherever it is that that we want to get.

Okay. Now, within that, I wanna to sort of make a little bit of a distinction here in that. There as a therapist, I was a solution focused therapist. I was a forward thinking therapist in how are we going to based upon. What's happening in your life. How are you looking forward? How are you moving forward in this?

However, there are times as a therapist that you've gotta dig into some of the things that have occurred to create those patterns and woundedness and trauma and, um, issues that are creating such a, such a, a barrier that keep. That client or that patient from being able to move into the future. So there's a lot of, there can be a lot of focus around what's hurt or broken, or, I mean, as a therapist, you really have to diagnose somebody as well.

That's part of that model. It's a medical model still. Um, As a coach, I do much of the same things. It's just around different issues in that as a coach, we tend to be more forward looking. We te if, if I have a coaching client who is unable, To get past some of the historical issues that are, that are really wounding them to not, and not able to look to the future or make plans for their future.

Then they probably would benefit from doing some therapy before they do coaching or deal with some issues in therapy and deal with some of their. Um, goals and forward movement in coaching. I don't see why you couldn't do that in therapy. You just have to be able to. To kind of remove those, those, that stuckness that can sometimes be around some trauma or, um, around some of our experiences that, that have occurred, uh, in our lives.

There is a quote, one of my favorite quotes from one of my interviews with Dr. Uh, Kemia Serraf, who is a trauma informed coach. She says, coaching is not therapy. But coaching can be very therapeutic. And I think that it's that concept of, are we able to address what's happened in our life and, and begin to move forward with it?

Or do we really feel a need to kind of dive in and. And determine some of the causes and some of the, yes. Um, some of the stuckness of the that's about that's 

the word I was gonna say, isn't it somewhat about the D the degree and cause causality of the stuckness, 

right? Yes. Very much so. Okay. So it's not that if I'm in coaching, I I'm never gonna cry or I'm never gonna feel angry or frustrated or even depressed or anxious.

However, if my depression is to such a place that I can't get out of bed in the morning, or I can't deal with my activities of daily living or I can't, you know, um, take care of myself or my family, then I'm, I'm gonna need some therapy probably before there's there's those are not things. In my belief that that coaches should deal with coaches are not trained to deal with disorders like severe depression or severe anxiety, or, um, Certainly any of the, the diagnosable, you know, I wouldn't really recommend that a coach try to deal with even severe substance abuse or, or bipolar disorder or any of the things that yeah, exactly right.

Diagnosable mental health issues should be dealt with in therapy. I think what 

makes it additionally confusing and interesting is that the lay person like me who has been kind of a user of both sides of it, a client of both sides, but not a practitioner formally, formally trained in either. Is that. You hear about therapy, mostly in the realm of the personal, and you hear about coaching more and more in entrepreneurial circles like mine, you hear about coaching in the realm of professional development, but to your references earlier in our conversation about children.

I mean, I think that when you learn some coaching questions and you understand some basic things in the framework, you actually realize you can take. That into your family and into your personal life and into your friendships. I mean, I feel so lucky you and I may have a lot of overlapping relationships and friendships and I mean, my dinner parties and my friend conversations are just the greatest because I'm friends with coaches.

Who help me think through, I will literally call and say, do you have time for some free coaching? And I'm not really kidding. And, you know, I owe a really nice dinner or , it's our turn to pick up the tab, or I owe a big favor because they're actually going to lend their expertise to the way they ask questions that will extract.

What the problem really is, and help me get to a solution. But I will ask permission for that because I'm, I'm tapping into it's like, you don't wanna have a friend who is, you know, an expert stylist and just think you can show up and ask them to color your hair without, you know, an appointment that's rude on their day.

Right. So we don't wanna take advantage of people. Right. But, but I, but I think that people think of coaching. In, mostly in the professional domain and therapy and the personal domain and they actually inform each other. And I think like one of my interests is to see people understand the realm of executive coaching and even that term and understand that coaching.

Questions and a coaching posture can transcend all of it to people's benefit. And then it also, some of it is it's learnable. I won't have the level of proficiency you have, but I'm gonna practice some of the things you suggested on the call. And that's gonna make me a little bit better in my coaching questions.

Right? So it's with a growth mindset. I can get better at 

this. Absolutely. And I, and I really believe as a matter of fact, the research shows that when coaching of coaching framework is taken in an educational setting, um, there's a lot of research around cognitive coaching in. Educational setting, it increases teacher satisfaction.

It increases student engagement. It increases the overall culture to be more collaborative and cooperative and problem solving. I mean, so yeah, there's, it's not like, oh, well we can only use coaching with adults. No, the, the fact is that I really believe that our little people and our young people could benefit incredibly.

From looking at, am I making an assumption here or, you know, or, or is this really a fact, am I, you know, how can I ask more questions and, and, and engage more in my life through empowerment rather than feeling as though I just have to do whatever I'm told. Um, so I'm sure there's many a teacher out there saying, what do you mean?

No, I'm just kidding. Um, 

my peers are parents of young adults who. Are are wanting to transition in their parenting. Like I can't tell my kids what to do in a way that I used to. I don't have that level of influence. It's not even appropriate. It's not empowering. And, and yet they don't always make great mature adult decisions.

So helping them having a conversation, but getting them to think through, well, how am I gonna get to where I wanna go? That is a different kind of leading. Yes. That's 

required of me. And. To me much more interesting is mu even though it's kind of unchartered territory, it's, it's much, it's literally more interesting to me than telling little kids what to do.

Like I thought that was hard. It was simple in one way, but hard in others. This is so much more collaborative and interesting because like you said, in the work example earlier, With the salesperson and sales manager, it's like the solution of how they might get there is likely going to be a way I didn't think of it.

Wasn't in my framework, it's a generational difference. I don't even understand all the resources they bring to bear. Right. We could often be pleasantly surprised. 

Exactly. I used to ask my kids, what do you think your consequence for this should be. Uh, they would usually come up with a far more creative consequence than, than I would come up with and, and usually more intense than what I was gonna do.

So then we could kinda walk it back a little bit, but, and I did wanna to make just one point for anybody who's listening, who is either worked with a life coach or is a life coach that certainly life coaching is very much in that personal, real. Um, not just professional. Definitely. I'm an executive coach.

I teach executive coaches, but I do know that there's this whole, you know, realm of, of life coaches who really do help people step in their personal space in a more empowered way. Keep that. Cause I haven't understand that term very well. That is helpful. Yeah. Um, and, and, you know, certain, but my whole thing about coaching is that people tend to kind of come into a situation, looking through a very small aperture.

They're sort of looking, this is the way I'm thinking about this. It's the way I'm looking at this. And as a coach leader, as a coach myself, what my hope is that I can ask things and. A assume positive intent in such a way that, as I say, as you're considering this, when you think about this, what else opens up for you?

What I'm ultimately hoping to do is open up. The, the lens that they're looking through so that they get more options, more possibility. That's the whole concept of coaching. Like you're looking at it one way. Let me help you begin to just consider what else fits in that view so that you have more things to choose from.

You have more options, more possibility. That's the power of. 

So cool. So cool. Okay. So Meg I, one thing that is so interesting and fun to me about you is all the different hats you wear even now, you know, so tell 

people, uh, if they would like to get more coach training, if they are interested in working with you, tell 'em about your 

different roles, your resources, where should they follow you based on different personas of who might be listen.

Excellent. Thank you for that. So, first of all, um, if you just wanna know more about what coaching is and what O opportunities it opens up and just kind of like, what is this coaching thing? I would encourage you to listen to the star coach show. Um, that is my weekly podcast. It is for coaches, but it's also for leaders who wanna use coaching it's it's.

So it's star coach show it's on all of the places where you can listen to, and 

I will endorse it. Let me interrupt. You I'll endorse it. I've listened. Ever since we first met and I get things I pull from it, I get ideas from my business from it. It is so interesting to me, how you could have interviewed that many coaches and still have people say different things from each.

It it's so interesting to me. So I, I, I fully, 

I'm fully behind that suggestion, KQ going well. And I wanna, um, let everybody know as Catherine and I are doing this interview. Not sure when it's coming up, but the day that we're doing this interview, Catherine is actually my guest on the star coach show.

That was really cool. So you definitely wanna listen to episode 299. Catherine is my highlighted guest for that.  also LinkedIn, Meg Rentschler at LinkedIn. That's a great way to connect with me both through my executive coaching and the work that I do as a mentor coach and as a coach instructor. And, um, my.

Two websites. One is If you wanna follow that website, I mean, follow the podcast and then afocusonresults.Com is my executive coaching business. So 

someone can hire you to get coaching. You sell packages 

of that. Mm-hmm  they can get free 

information from star coach podcast mm-hmm  and then what if they wanna be trained to be a coach?

Well, there are oodles of different training programs out there. I happen to be on faculty at the university of Texas at Dallas and their executive coaching program, which is an outstanding executive coaching program. I'm also, uh, on faculty at coach academy international, which is gonna be more of, uh, intensive.

She does, uh, I. Program so that, um, you are kinda walking away in a relatively short period of time with the training that you need to be able to start as a coach. So that's coach academy international that's Mina brown. She is the she's the owner of that. School I'm I'm her mentor coach. So I follow her students for months after the, the training and provide mentor coaching.

And, um, and then there is just a plethora of different programs out there. I would recommend anybody. Who's just kind of looking there's, uh, coaching Coaching is the international coaching Federation website and they are the largest organization for professional coaching.

They're gonna have resources. Left and right on that website for anybody who's like wants to explore coaching and I'm always, you mean, use the contact me on either of my websites. I'm happy to talk with people about what does this look like and, and what would I wanna be coached or do I wanna teach my leaders how to coach I'm.

Big believer that coaching is gonna change the world because as we listen to people more deeply, we're more curious about what they have to offer. We believe in their potential. That's gonna change the world. Yes, and I am 

so resonating with you talking about how people come in with a certain view, a certain aperture, and that that gets bigger.

And you know, one of the reasons I'm so passionate about people being becoming more comfortable selling is because it's through business that they can fulfill their values, reach their goals, have the impact they want, because I want people to have more fulfilled, beautiful lives and. You, you gotta know what you want.

Mm-hmm  which coaching helps you get. Right. 

And I think that we are aligned in wanting this fullness for people. I want people to have the, a fullness and richness in every sense of the word. And I think that selling skills is a tool set inside that bigger picture and coaching. I am gonna go on the limb and say, is, is even. Broader and 

appropriate for an even wider range of the population to learn not only to be the recipient of that, but to get some skills, to use that 

questioning in their relationships. Cause it gets people what they want in their vision for themselves and in relationships with others. And 

I, um, just a real fan.

And so I really appreciate you giving my audience. Training and, and some specific coaching questions, because I think a lot of people think 

they're coaching leaders and they're really not. But they wanna be. And so we've really given them some great tools for that today. So thank you so much. I 

am thrilled to do that.

And I gotta tell you, I am about to engage in a six month program with a really large, um, company that wants their sales people. To learn how to use coaching as one of the things in their toolkits. So six months I'm gonna be working with all their sales leaders to learn how to use coaching to up those sales for that organization.

So it is, it is there, it is a real thing. 

So cool. So cool. Thanks Meg. 

Thanks so much. 

Thank you, Catherine. It was such a joy to spend time with you. 

Thank you. I'm so glad you joined us today. If you would like me to come and speak with your organization about how to sell like a good human, please contact me through the 

website. How good humans Thanks and talk with you again.