Conversations with Good Humans

How to Show Empathy in the Sales Process

September 09, 2022 Catherine Brown Episode 26
How to Show Empathy in the Sales Process
Conversations with Good Humans
More Info
Conversations with Good Humans
How to Show Empathy in the Sales Process
Sep 09, 2022 Episode 26
Catherine Brown

Empathy. What does that word really mean? 

I wonder how many times you’ve heard the word used and you’ve nodded along but not really grasped what it is or why it matters?

Today on Conversations with Good Humans, I’m talking with some of my friends who are fellow sales trainers about the topic of empathy in sales. This recording captures the best of the discussion from social audio, where we held a live discussion about how to demonstrate empathy while selling.

This podcast episode will help you better understand empathy as an emotional intelligence trait, which, for many, isn’t a very concrete idea.

Mentioned in this episode:
Liz Heiman on LinkedIn
Yoram Stone on LinkedIn
Vicki Gurney on LinkedIn
Liz Cortes on LinkedIn

Show Notes Transcript

Empathy. What does that word really mean? 

I wonder how many times you’ve heard the word used and you’ve nodded along but not really grasped what it is or why it matters?

Today on Conversations with Good Humans, I’m talking with some of my friends who are fellow sales trainers about the topic of empathy in sales. This recording captures the best of the discussion from social audio, where we held a live discussion about how to demonstrate empathy while selling.

This podcast episode will help you better understand empathy as an emotional intelligence trait, which, for many, isn’t a very concrete idea.

Mentioned in this episode:
Liz Heiman on LinkedIn
Yoram Stone on LinkedIn
Vicki Gurney on LinkedIn
Liz Cortes on LinkedIn

Do you think sales is a bad word? When you hear the word sales, I wonder what images come to mind, whatever your relationship is with selling. I'm glad you're here. Let's have a conversation about how to sell like a good human. Hi, welcome to conversations with good humans. I'm your host, Catherine Brown and I'm author of the book called how good humans sell. Empathy, empathy, empathy.

What does that word really mean today on conversations with good humans? I'm talking with some of my friends who are fellow sales trainers and business development professionals about the topic of empathy in sales. This recording captures the best of our discussion from social audio, where we held a live discussion about how to demonstrate empathy while selling.

I wonder how many times you've heard the word used and you've nodded along, but not really grasped what it is or why it matters. Our diverse and experienced group really gets into what empathy is as well as how to demonstrate empathy to our buyers. I loved hearing the different perspectives from wildly successful sellers who share examples of what it means to embody empathy while selling.

I think just about everybody out there can get better at this, including me. So I'll be listening to it again as.  this podcast episode will help you better understand empathy as an emotional intelligence trait, as well as have practical tips to try check the show notes, to find these moderators in the discussion with me, Liz Heiman, Yoram stone, Vicki gurney, and Liz Cortes.

They're all on LinkedIn and they're all people you should follow. Hope you enjoy what we're doing today is we're talking about empathy in sales. So I'm saying this for the benefit of everyone, including my moderators. I am really doubling down on my own research on this. I'm literally researching scientific journals because I'm curious about what work has been done to date on how you teach empathy.

Because I think we like to throw this word around and I will. Say as someone who's had some formal marketing training through the story brand method, there's a, you know, as you all know, there's a whole community of marketers out there who like this seven part framework called StoryBrand and StoryBrand says empathy, empathy, empathy, empathy.

There's all this synthesis on empathy. And actually there's never a definition. Of empathy. And I think people nod their head and they feel like they wanna be a good person. So they, they feel like they know they're supposed to be marketing and selling with empathy. And I don't think people know what they mean when they say that.

And so I thought that would be a really fun discussion to first say, what do you think it means to sell with empathy? And then what are. Really practical thing. So I made this, my LinkedIn post today, it's already gotten a lot of, um, traction, which is really fun. So you all can jump over and, and, and join me on that too.

And so that's, our topic is empathy and sales. So I'm really excited about that. Let me, um, ask my mods just to go around and introduce themselves. And then after that everyone gets to speak up here. Um, at least once I'll open it up pretty quickly for discussion. So Vicki, I'm gonna ask if you'd like to go, um, next and just introduce yourself and also what would be some opening thoughts about what it means to sell with empathy.

Thanks Catherine. 

So I am Vicki gurney, and I work with companies to develop and implement processes, to build pipeline and to hit those revenue targets. And I, I, I. I was looking up some definitions of empathy myself, because you know, when these questions get posed, we start to question ourselves. Right.

And what we've, um, have, uh, experienced the. Meaning the definition of a word to be throughout our life and so forth.  so I'm gonna go back to my default, to me, empathy is when you're able to take on the position of the person that you're, that you're speaking with to, you know, put yourself in their shoes, if you will.

And that doesn't mean, you know, Telling people. Oh, I know exactly how you feel. Uh, know it's more of actually, or it is completely just feeling a version of how you think they are feeling with the situation that's been described or that they're in the middle of. 

Thanks, Vicki. Appreciate you. And I'm glad you're here.

And I know you think about this and I know that you're an empathetic seller, so I'm really glad to have your contributions. Yoram let me let you go next. Would you introduce yourself and answer the question? What do you think it means to sell with empathy? Hi, my 

name is Yoram stone. I'm speaking to you from the heart of Manhattan.

We've been selling for a little over a decade. Um, sold primarily Sabu, so sold, um, in a finance space as well. My ideas. Empathy is not that different to Vicki really, I think it's really about understanding your prospects and clients about what they're looking for and understanding the challenges they may have in actually buying.

Um, but I think at the same time, sometimes empathy is rather than just, you know, you have to give 'em a little push if it's for their own good. Um, sometimes people are a bit reticent. To move ahead or open their minds, but you are convinced, uh, cuz you've done your research that this is really gonna help them.

So it's your job sometimes to just give them that nudge and that push along so long as it's good for the client. By having said that I feel this is a subject, which I really need to do some work on, so I'm really glad to raising it today. So my ears are 

open. Thanks. Yoram appreciate that. Liz. Good to see you.

Would you introduce yourself and would you share, what do you think it means to sell with empathy? Yeah, so I'm 

Liz Heiman. I'm a sales consultant. I started by career at a company called Miller Heiman, and I help companies build their sales operating system so they can grow and scale so that putting all the pieces in place that they need.

Um, I choose a different word. Then, um, Catherine chooses. I choose the word compassion and, and they're very similar. So I say, if you want to sell, you need to be curious. You need to be compassionate and you need to be creative. And those three things allow us to be empathetic, because if we're curious, we're thinking about what's going on with our customer, how are they feeling?

What are they thinking? What's impacting their decision, what's going on in their world. If we're compassionate, we are able to understand, um, We can have compassion for their frustrations, for their fears, for their life situation, that may be interfering with the decision so we can be compassionate and we can be creative, which helps us to figure out under those circumstances, understanding what's going on with them.

How can I. Creatively help them either make this decision later or deal with what's going on so they can make it now or whatever. So the three of those things really help us to be empathetic, but I like the word compassion because it, it really takes it to another level of don't just understand, but actually feel for them, um, and, and try and help.

So that's, it's different, different words, same 

meaning Liz, thanks so much. I really like your three C's. So those of you that jumped in Liz was just sharing. In lieu of the word empathy. She likes to say curious, compassionate, and creative Liz, that, that triad of goodness that you just listed reminds me jolly.

And I have, uh, a friend of mine. Who's a client of mine named Lawrence and Lawrence talks about Lawrence is one of the best referral givers I've ever met. I literally asked him to quantify this the other day and he told me that on any given month, he makes 10 to 12 introductions. A month. So that's both, Hey, I think you guys would like each other and something you each said made me think of you.

And so, you know, it's not necessarily sales lead, and then a fair bit of them are sales leads. So I just thought that was amazing, but li but Lawrence says that he practices listening with creativity and imagination.  and the reason he doubles down on imagination is he said, you cannot have an imagination for the good for your prospect.

If you're not listening very carefully, because you're trying to read between the lines you're clarifying what you don't understand. And he brings on that word imagination, which I wondered what you thought about that. I like that word.  

I think, I think creativity and imagination go together, right? If you have never been in this situation, that the person's in the best you can do is imagine what it would be like to be in their shoes, whether it's just simply trying to solve a problem, whether it's dealing with politics within their organization to get something done.

If you haven't physically been there, if you haven't had that experience, then try to imagine what it would be. To be in that situation, try to imagine what that person would need. And I think, I think those are all great words that help us to be good sellers. 

Thank you. Liz Heiman, Liz Cortes. I see that you made it.

Would you introduce yourself and would you answer the question? What do you think it means to sell with empathy? Thanks. Catherine 

empathy and sales. I think when you can tell the story or you can think I was just, I was late here because I was on a, a writing workshop and, um, it's normally over, right, right when we start this call, but it was kind of around the same topic and.

We went back thinking about, you know, what is the transformation that we give to our clients, the people that we work with and coming up with one word, and then we were writing about remembering when we first learned what we're experts in, like going back there. And so I was just like flowing, doing this free.

Right. And I was like, okay, I need to stay here because. That is how I get the empathy. When I think about the stories, when I think about where I was, and I take the time to write and journal that out, um, or, you know, go live on a video and share the story is another way that I do it. That is how I always stay connected to what is it like when a customer comes to me and I'm on that sales call and.

Like after I have this here, I have a sales call. I'm already in the empathy space because I did the free right now. We're in empathy now. And so I know the sales call that I'm gonna have at 1115, when this Pacific, certain time it's gonna be, um, I just know it's gonna be so great cuz I did that work to really get there.

My word for the year is rooted. So maybe that's why I'm extra empathetic this year. Cuz I'm like K one be rooted. And like, I don't like grounded cause that's like you're grounded. And you're like a little kid. I don't understand why people use that word, but I have the word rooted, like rooted and love.

And I just want that to show up on all my sales calls. Thank you, Catherine. Liz. 

That is really lovely. Thank you for that feedback across all of us here today, we've sold into most major industries for. Some case like me decades  so we have, we've really got, got a deep bench and I'm really proud of the Mo group that I have invited and brought to the room.

So please be sure to follow everyone. If you think this is helpful and follow these individuals who I've encouraged to introduce themselves so that you will know how they can help you and your company as. My question and sort of the next direction I'd like to take this is to acknowledge that once you get to know someone a little bit better and they share something hard, that's going on, whether they're your client or still a prospect, not yet a client, those are situations where I think it's can be easier to show empathy you've already built trust.

And so if someone lets down their garden tells you. That they're struggling with something. You have a chance to have this human to human moment. I think a lot of people can envision how that happens later. But I think that one of the things that master sellers, people who really sell it, good humans, they can express empathy and build that relationship quickly.

At least open the door toward it, right from that very first call. This is the sort of thing where. We risk being contrived. And I wanted to say, I'm just gonna say this one time and I won't, won't say it again.  if you don't really love people and you don't really care about them, then everything that will suggest from here on out can just be an act.

And that's not really being a good human. We're assuming that if you're here and you keep showing up that you deeply care about selling the right thing,  at the right time to the right person. So that is a foundation for being a true empathetic seller. Who's not manipulative. So I just wanna put that out there.

Cause I feel pretty strongly about that. That being said, assuming those things are true of all of us. What do I say and do at the beginning of the relationship to start to develop this relationship that has compassion. And empathy. I have 

an idea. One of the things that you do is you actually listen and act, really hear what they're saying.

And as you mentioned earlier, asked those, uh, follow on questions, you know, dig a little deeper, get them, give them permission to say how they really feel. And that would be the, the one that I would go with first. 

I was literally just gonna say the same thing. So sometimes the best thing to say, the way to show your really care is to say as little as possible, make it about them.

Get them speaking about themselves. Um, asked. But at the same time I would add, have some questions. Don't make it cross examination, but I have one or two questions that show you've at least done some. Preliminary research about them or their company or the organization about and about where they want to go to.

So at least you can ask some relevant questions and if you don't know that, um, if you're struggling to really find a fit, but there's still a reason you're calling, I would say be very open up front. I have occasion hang up people and say, listen, this is what I know about your company. This is what we've done with others.

This is why I think what Don VAs could help you. How far off am I? I mean, talk to me about, you know, the challenges you are facing, make it about them. As Liz said, 

sorry, Vicki said those are really both great things. And Yoram, I'm going to piggyback on what you're saying a little bit, where if we think about the golden rule, treating others, like we'd like to be treated to some people that might seem.

Like, well, of course, but I don't think it's well, of course, cuz I think depending on the sales organization, You might have such high volume coming in that is actually very challenging to research before a call, or maybe that information's fed to you, or maybe you have to go get it on your own. You know, all those circumstances could be different.

We have people in the room that our sales teams have one, uh, which I am right now. I mean, I have other people work for me in other roles, but I'm a sales team of one. So I have to do all my own getting ready so that I can show. To say, I studied your site and I have some questions and, and dive right in treating however much time we have scheduled to be together as very special by being ready to jump in with thoughtful questions, require some research.

I really love that point you made. I 

think it's really important that we stop and think about what is this first call that we're talking about.  um, if I'm calling somebody I've never spoken to before I'm cold calling them, because I think I can have a solution versus if I've got a referral or if somebody's responding to content or another situation, I've met someone somewhere, we've had a little bit of a conversation and now we're gonna have a real conversation.

Each of those things are really different situations and, and require different preparation and thought. I think the first thing is you don't, you can do as much research as you can. And then after that, you have to assume some things that we know in general, for instance, if I'm talking to a CEO, I know that when I talk to other CEOs of companies like his, they tell me that sales is chaotic and frustrating and, um, unpredictable.

And, and so I can ask him. Is that what you're experiencing or if I get a referral, I can say, Hey, I understand that you've got some issues with your sales organization that you need some help with. You wanna tell me about what you're hoping to accomplish and what things you're experiencing. Right. So you understanding.

that each one of these different kinds of discussions we're gonna have to start with from a different place. And, um, what we wanna do is let them know that we have some understanding of what they might be experiencing and we wanna understand is that what they're experiencing and is that what they need help with?


then we can have a conversation, Liz. I really appreciate. That saying, what is that first call? Um, that's a great point, cuz again, there's so much diversity in the room. So even when I ran a professional cold calling company, which I did for 17 years, the purpose of that first call was really to schedule a longer call.

It was to state the basic value proposition and say, Hey, I know I've caught you at a time. You were not expecting me. This is the nature of my call. This is the reason would you like to have a conversation? This was particularly important in early internet days, we didn't have the kind of email marketing and, and ways of easily inexpensively marketing to people prior to calling on them.

So.  even the cold calls were real short in my mind and in my experience, and then that, that next call, which might be anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, I suppose. I don't, I don't typically like to book an hour until I know something's further qualified, but. Where we are starting to do that mutual qualification and backed back and forth is what I'm thinking on that first call.

Is that, is that what we're saying, Liz? Yes. That's great. Thanks anybody else? How do I, how do I, early in the sales process, start to demonstrate the compassion as Liz is describing it or empathy as I'm describing. Catherine, I 

feel compelled to throw something in right here. So, but I wanna throw this in, in case there are some really early career sellers that are listening to this and because we keep talking about, you know, um, the things that we already know, or we think we know from the research we've done and so forth and so on.

This is gonna seem so simple for those of us, probably everyone here, but just in case, if you don't know, don't act like you do, that's the big thing because, um, that is not being a good human, you know, acting like you, you know, making, taking those assumptions or rolling with 'em as, as if they are truth.

When you have nothing to base them on. So it's okay. If you don't know to ask those questions to find out that's a whole lot better than just rolling and not listening because you're definitely not being empathetic. 

Vicki. I think that's really great. It's making me think about early when I was, so I guess it was my third job out of university.

I was. In an inside sales position, probably now that position would call, be called SDR or BDR. At the time everyone was just called the sales manager, but I was doing front end qualifying for other people as in the inside sales organization, as an employee. And I was calling on someone and I had not done.

Sufficient research, like what yoru was saying a few minutes ago to really be ready for the call. And the person stopped me in the middle of my pitch and said, hang on, hang on just a minute, Catherine. He said, I'm curious why you're calling me. And I said, oh, well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I started to go into my pitch again.

He said, no, no, no, no. I'm asking why you're calling me. And I. Stunned embarrassed. Even now I can feel my, how, my, how my face, like flushed a little hot, like I was surprised and I didn't know the answer because I was unprepared and it illuminated the fact that I was, was really going through the motions to do my job.

And I didn't ever do that again because it was embarrassing. It was not a good human thing to do. I knew it. The minute he called me out and it was a gift. It's a gift sometimes when sort of like the wound of a friend, I think there's a proverb about that.  right. Like, it's, it's a gift sometimes to be called out, especially if it can be pretty early in your career because you can take corrective action.

May I add something to that? I think there's a wonderful opportunity. If somebody does call you out, if you actually don't just go through the motions, but you actually say to somebody, um, you know, I understand you this or that. And they said, no, Oh, really. Thank you so much for saving me some embarrassment.

Pardon me for asking I've been totally misinformed. And the reason I thought you were responsible, this is, this is your title. And they said, no, I don't. I'm not necessarily sure idea with that. It might not be my thing. Sometimes you can, if you just. You're humble. And you're you say, I'm sorry. I didn't understand.

I said, listen, hopefully you could help. I'm wondering then if you could help me, can I tell you what I do very quickly? And you can tell me if this is anything to do with you or somebody else or whether I should just not waste any more time for anybody in this organization. And most of the time they'd be very willing to do so unless you caught them in a bad moment, but it's a wonderful opportunity to really sort of break that ice that's automatically there.

When they hear, when they pick up the phone first sales call, they may even if they can't help you close the deal, they could probably give you a lot of insights in the company. If they see you're actually willing to learn. And you've got that humil. You'll be amazed how far that takes you. You 

want me to sound like a real person, what you just said, right?

So you just kind of politely back down and ask for help. And that was, I think that was great modeling. I 

brought up about this concept that a coach called me out and, um, lately I've been getting on my comfort zone and doing things just to grow in like a growth. Part and feeling like really unconfident and I'm trying new things and it just train wrecks and anger.

All this stuff is coming up because I I'm in a growth phase. And the coach, um, called someone else out on the call because they said, I can't believe this happened. Like, I can't believe I hit this goal. I can't believe they kept saying this. And she was like, stop saying, you can't believe. Or you're surprised that like, something amazing happened in your life or your business instead say as expected.

So like in my case, I relate to me as expected last week, I did a sales call with two franchisors. One of them had 3000 franchisees and they want me to come speak and work with all those businesses, like as expected. I sent out a $30,000 proposal yesterday as expected. And it's just, I think the heart connection, as well as paying attention to the words and the stories that you share really connects with people and shows empathy that you're the real deal.

Thanks Liz. I am a, I am going to, um, model and practice the as expected statement. I really like that. And I'm glad you brought that up. I think that this is my proposition to everyone today is that this is something that we hear people talk about doing just like we talk about emotional intelligence or selling with emotional intelligence.

It's like, what is it?  what is it? And how does it look? And. I think that even in that first discovery call what Liz Heiman and I were agreeing is this is the first call that is not necessarily the cold call. Although if the cold call evolves into something where we're mutually qualifying and we keep talking, maybe it's probably that we've agreed to a set time and we have 15, 30 minutes, something like that scheduled where we are.

Talking about the value proposition, talking about the prospect's goals and deciding if we're gonna keep talking. I think that in that very first call one suggestion I have for people that I've been practicing myself, it's I think working well is you don't have to ask the question directly of them, but if, while you're on that zoom call or teams call or face to face or on the phone, if you ask yourself at this moment,  what might this person be feeling at this moment?

What might this person be feeling simply that asking yourself of that question in your own head, I think will shape what else comes out of your mouth. And if you think the space is there, where something seems fairly evident to you, you can validate that. You could say, it sounds like what you're describing.

Was blank. Exciting, disappointing, frustrating, better than expected fill in the blank. Right. Is that true? Right. So I think you could even take a guess, but you give them a chance to vol back to you. What I don't like that I hear people say is, they'll say I know exactly how that feels. Okay. That is not.

That's not true. That cannot be true. You have not, you have not lived the life they've lived. And even if you have sold to this persona 500 times, you do not know what it's like to be them. And I think that is not a good human thing to do. So I'll pause with that. 

I agree. And I find that to be a habit that was, I, I still am, am breaking that habit.

I, I believe that at one point that was my, my intent was to be empathetic. Right. But realizing that that's not accurate has, um, really helped me, but I will admit  to making that mistake, 

Catherine. Yeah. Thanks Vicki. I think the inten heart intention can be good. It's a risky thing to Catherine that could be. I mean, I think it's absolutely like in the absolute sense.

I don't know how it could be true since we literally haven't been them. Right. But I recognize that a lot of times people are saying that and they mean Goodwill in doing it. It's one of those tricky places where nuance and language and being more careful about our words helps us and them. Sometimes we have to hear that model.

And I would love to 

point out that it was my daughter that, that expressed that to me a few years ago that no, I did not know exactly how she felt, um, as a teenager. So there we go.  

I often say I've been there. Oh, my gosh, this must be so difficult for you. I've been in a similar situation or I've been there with my teenager or, um, you know, I've been there with my business.

I don't know exactly how you feel, but I can imagine. And so rather than, you know, I, I give them some camaraderie by saying I. I can empathize with where you've been. I know how hard it is, but other than that, you, you can't assume that you know exactly, but we can find words that help them to understand or help let them know that we have some understanding of what 

they might be going through.

I was just thinking of in the past, when I worked as a salesperson and had people listen to my calls, they would. One one trainer. She was like, you are trying to get them to be your friend too much. You're here to sell stuff. You're here to paint the gap and stop trying to get them to like you on a 15 minute sales call.

And, um, That translated into, she also hired me for coaching for the program that I was selling because I sold so much, I sold more than her that month. I think we did, we did over a hundred thousand that month and I like helped her with that. And then she's like, I need help to fulfill on what we just sold.

And can you help me with this? And so I did that and some feedback that I. Um, from someone that actually quit and asked for a refund for this, um, program I sold is she said, Liz talked too much about her experiences. And I remember that was so fr first of all, I was like, it's hard when someone's telling me the trainer's like, you are trying to get them to like you too much, like stick to the script, follow this.

And then now. It's my very first time being a sales funnel, like coach and like teaching them, how did we make a hundred thousand that month? Like, how do we make this happen? And I'm coaching someone and I'm telling too much personal stories. So for years that was back, I'd say 2011 when this happened. And that hit me hard for like a long time.

I really could not figure out how, what was appropriate balance was with sharing. Versus just saying a statement like I understand, or I get what it's like. And, um, I love it when the website says those empathetic statements so that before they get on sales call with you, hopefully they did their research and checked out your website.

To see if they wanna hire a company. But, um, that's something that's still is kind of a struggle for me. That's why we're gonna come on here and share stories, but like on a 15 minute sales call, like that balance is tough. So if anyone wants to share about the balance and how you've overcome that, it still gets in my head once in a while, even though this was years ago.

And, um, both those when I'm coaching, I remember that girl that quit and asked for a refund, and then I remember.  sales trainer telling me don't get people to like you. 


I think though, at the same time, we don't wanna underestimate the power of story. Right. So, you know, I, I love what you're saying. Cuz what is that balance between I'm talking to somebody they're not understanding.

I could tell a story that will help them understand what I mean versus it's all about them. Not about me and how do I help. How do I, how do I decide whether our story is appropriate or not? I think, I think there's some balance there that could be useful. 

Thank you. Thank 


I think the key is you should always be kind and courteous to everybody interacting.

Number one, it's the right thing to do. Number two. You never know who they're gonna speak to, or you never know what power they may hold, even though you may not expect it. Number three, it's good practice. So when you speak to the people that are gonna make things happen for you, you're in the habit of being kind and courteous.

And I just wanna actually add one thing about stories. I think probably the best thing think about stories is you're gonna tell a story or anything. Ask yourself, is this gonna help the person telling them, why am I telling them, is it gonna entertain them? Is it actually gonna make things better them? Or am I just maybe saying this?

Cause I think it's a great story and I assume they're gonna want to hear it. They may, or they may not. Make it about them. And I think that's why the, you know, the fundamental tenants of selling. I realize everybody is different. Everybody's in a separate thing. So yeah, there may be some synergies. There may be, things are similar.

You can use that to get a conversation going, don't assume, turn it around to them. Use it as a key to get them talking about themselves and understanding what they're dealing. 

Your thanks for that. And Liz, I I'm rolling this around in my brain because it's possible you were going overboard with your story and that, and that there was too much time as a percent of the total call too much time was on your story.

And not enough was asking about them. They, they could have been, they could have been saying that. It also sounds like it could be the comment of a jealous person.  because you have a, cuz you have a really. A very warm way about you. And if that's harder for someone else that, that there could have been some of that there too, you do not have to be a crazy extrovert and you can, you literally, a person literally cannot be everyone's best friend.

That's not possible, but I, I kind of take issue with this, you know, with the position. You can't be friends with the people you're selling to, because I think it's the division of thinking of such strict roles that it, I think it harms you because then you create these boundaries that make it weird when you actually, they do share something personal or you wanna be more empathetic.

And all of a sudden you realize you didn't set up the relationship. You have this just strictly professional relationship and now being a good human feels. Odd. 

If you don't know what strengths find her is, it's Gallup. It's like a personality test that only focuses on your strengths, not your weaknesses.

And when I met with this coach last week, I shared with her a struggle and it was interesting, cuz she was like, well, looking at your strengths. Your number six on your list is one that's called later and that's a relationship building strength. And it says, she gave me this, um, handout and it says, what do I bring and contribute when, because of the strength and for relator, if you guys have this, it says the ability to work hard with friends to achieve goals.

And I'm like, I'm like, man, Back. I mean, I thought about, you know, back then in 2011, when I was told these two comments and it just like hit me hard. And I was, I mean, that was a while ago. I was younger and  hit my ego, but I'm like, that's what I do. Like, I pretty much always hire friends to work for our company as employees and people are like, oh, I can't believe you do that.

Let's crossing a boundary. I mean, I work with my husband, a dual relationship, um, and I. Like we hire people from our church or friends, or like, I love partnering with other businesses, um, and working together on projects. And so that's like part, I think some of us are, I mean, we just are friendly. We wanna have lots of friends and we wanna do stuff with our friends and we wanna travel and goals and accomplish things together and bringing our family and our friends along for the journey and the events, whatever the things are.

and I think it's just more fun to do it that way. And it's actually, I didn't realize till last week that this is a strength of mine. It's 

interesting. You just reminded of something. My mother once said many years ago and she was looking for an assistant and she hired two people and she said, I said, how'd they go?

She says, you know, I was saying to partner, well, name is definitely better qualified than the other, but the other, I just found, had a better connection with, and I wonder if that's the same way. If that note one, do I know to, to large extent, this is a, a large way people feel comfortable doing business with you.

They have a good connection. They're more likely to do it with you. And you know, if somebody else's product is way better and they've done a much better job selling it. Okay. But if there's not much in it, even if you don't, you may be missing a few things, they may just feel, you know, you're putting more, they're being more empathetic.

They care more about us. I just have a warmer relationship with 

them. It's not just your buyer that you want to build a relationship and have empathy with, but people who are influencing and playing all different roles in that process. So appreciate that we could do a, um, we could do a quick lightning round.

Like what's one thing you wanna take from this that might be cool to hear with, from our very experienced sales consultants. What is something that you wanna practice? That's been brought up that got your attention. That could be fun.  Vicki. You're going first lightning ground. We're gonna go around real quick and have everybody say.

One to two sentences of what you wanna practice differently. 

Liz C was talking about the balance between the storytelling and basically sticking to the script. Um, and so I'm gonna work on 

that. Cool. Thanks so much. That's great. Yoram, I don't think 

it's necessarily doing things differently because I realized I had been doing a lot of things.

Right. I think I can do them a bit better or a lot better. I think I can. Try and make an effort to sound more genuine and to try and chew myself in. A bit more with the prospect and clients. 

Thanks, Liz Heiman. Yeah. No, this 

was a great conversation. I think, I think sometimes when we're selling like good humans, we get really caught up in doing the right thing.

But I think Yoram is right. That even though we're being compassionate and kind, and empathetic and all of these things, at some point, if this person. It needs to buy this product in order to get where they wanna go. We have some responsibility to help them get there, even if it's a little bit of a push, um, as opposed to just, uh, okay.

Everything is fine. If you don't wanna do this, that's fine. I think we just still need to do a little bit of pushing. 

Thanks, Liz. Liz Cortes. My 

favorite was just hearing those stories. It could be just one sentence you share. You don't have to share a long, giant, long story. It could be one, two sentences that just make me feel relat and connected.

And it's like, wow, like we've been in a similar spot. Like you get me. I like you. I wanna be your friend. And so that's my favorite. 

Thanks Liz. And I think I'm gonna keep practicing. This is a fairly new practice for me. So I'm going to keep practicing, asking myself. During calls with people, what might this person be feeling?

What might this person be feeling I may or may not also ask them some version of that. I am going to train myself to be attuned to wondering, because I think that will shape my questions. Thank you all for this great conversation. I am so enjoying this research on empathy as a pathway for emotional intelligence and selling.

And I have tons of notes that things from things that. Um, the moderators shared about what they think it is and isn't, and how you practice it. And I'm so excited about that and appreciative about that. And so if you've enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow the folks on the stage. I'm so glad you joined us today.

If you would like me to come and speak with your organization about how to sell like a good human, please contact me through the website. How good humans Thanks and talk with you again.