072 Surviving 15 Stab Wounds - Story of Resilience

In this episode, Vivi Devereux shares the chilling details of the night he endured a horrible stabbing, that saved someone’s life—an act of heroism that nearly cost him everything. Against all odds, he survived what doctors called a medical miracle, but the aftermath still impacts him today. Vivi opens up about the trauma, the long road to recovery, the physical and mental health challenges, and how that moment forever changed his life. His story is one of survival, resilience, and courage in the face of tragedy.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

If you think you've hit rock bottom, you actually haven't hit rock bottom. I was attacked and stabbed 15 times. I can't kill you. I can't hurt you badly.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Quick warning before we dive in. Today's story is both gripping and gut-wrenching. I interview Vivi Devereaux, a true hero who was stabbed while bravely attempting to save another person one unfortunate and fateful night. He's here to share how that harrowing experience reshaped his life and ignited a journey of resilience. Guys, please remember, if you do enjoy the show, please support us by following and sharing the podcast with your friends and family and spreading the word. Your support is vital in helping us bring more inspiring stories to light. Thank you very much and enjoy the episode. Thank you so much, Ruby, for being here on the podcast and your time and everything. I really do appreciate it. And I apologize for coming in a little bit late. It was... havoc with the with my cat in the morning he just decided to jump on my massive coffee jar and just shatter the glass all over the place and i was like not now oh

SPEAKER_00 1:35

yeah yeah well hopefully there's not too much to clean up because i like cats but they can be devious little little guys you aren't looking

SPEAKER_01 1:45

so yeah are you actually based in the uk and whereabouts in the uk were you born and raised there like tell me a

SPEAKER_00 1:53

And I have lived in the States for nearly 10 years now. So relocated to LA. So yes, that's been an adventure to say the least.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Wow. Tell me about your story. Where does it all begin for you? How is it, you know, your childhood and, you know, your family life and everything?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Right. Well, that's a very interesting story. Mother is a hardworking entrepreneur. My parents never really married. Obviously, product of a summer fling. So they went their separate ways. Mother was given free passage to England, but she decided to stay where she is. She is, well, I was born in the middle of apartheid, let's put it that way, 1986 in South Africa. So she was an apartheid freedom fighter, essentially. And she wanted to stay and, you know, fight for what was right, fight for her rights, our future, and end discrimination. So I grew up with It's... a firebrand of a mother who, when she saw something, she would always go and get it. I think that's where I got it from because we are very similar, but very different. So when we decide, okay, we're going for something and we see a goal that we want, we typically go for it.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Would you agree that those are certain characteristics that kind of helped you get into the field that you got into as well, into acting?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I would agree with you there. But also realising that I didn't want to be an actor growing up. In fact, being an artist was the last thing on my mind. Growing up, I wanted to be an entrepreneur or a financier or a banker. In fact, I started a university degree studying financial management. But I have always been part of the theatre group because I enjoyed that as well. The opportunity fell in when I was scouted for modelling and I started doing a couple of fashion shows, a lot of runway stuff. So for Hugo Boss, Carducci, brands like that. A to that world, by the way. I found it incredibly toxic. Why? How so? I've heard some people say things to me where they go, well, Vivi, can't sleep with you, so I might as well put you on a show, you know, when it comes to certain producers. But they said it in a much ruder way. And it was just, you know, the backstabbing, the cattiness when you get backstage. I mean, it was fun when it was fun, but when it It wasn't you. I mean, you're going to be objectified because that's the nature of the business and you need to have the mindset for it. But at the same time, it becomes one is enough enough, especially when you are young and still figuring out what you're going to do next. So I quit acting, decided I'm going to be an actor, came here, got my diploma. Then I buggered off for a year. I lived in India for a while. In India?

SPEAKER_01 4:55

I

SPEAKER_00 4:56

lived in India for a year and then went to South Africa to help my mother with a few things because that's where she lives. You know, bounced to England for a bit and then back here in 2015.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Wow. And what about your siblings? You said you have a brother. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I have a younger brother who is an author, actually. If I were to plug a book, it would be one of his. But we are incredibly close. I think he knows me better than anyone. Anyone on planet Earth. And we've been through a lot together. We've been through a lot together. And I think he has turned into... an incredible, incredible man. You know, he's now engaged, looking to get married at some point this year, which I'm incredibly proud of. And, you know,

SPEAKER_01 5:51

one

SPEAKER_00 5:52

of my best friends, one of my greatest supporters, and when he wrote that book, he wrote it using me as an archetype. So he wrote it as, you know,

SPEAKER_01 6:07

kind

SPEAKER_00 6:08

of... expressing his love and appreciation for me, but also he's peppered into it all these little inside jokes that only our family would get. So when I read it,

SPEAKER_01 6:20

I

SPEAKER_00 6:20

find myself laughing at something that no one else will get. But I do. I don't know why he put it in there.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Love

SPEAKER_00 6:29

it. Very, very close to him. We can always pick up the phone. We talk and we can... talk at any time and we hardly ever really disagree on anything either now I think about it. So yeah, no, we're really, really close.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Do you feel like to an extent adversity kind of brought you guys close? Yes. Do you feel like that was kind of like when you had those pivotal moments, those were the moments you guys really bonded?

UNKNOWN 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

I think our entire family, once we were going through a really tough time, you know, it was just the three of us, my mother, him and I, and we were going through an incredibly hard time. We really were. Business was doing poorly. We were having other issues that we were needing to navigate. And it was just... Everyone was reaching their breaking point at some point. And the thing about rock bottom is if you think you've hit rock bottom, you actually haven't hit rock bottom. It's when you suddenly realize how tired and shell-shocked you are That's when I think you have hit rock bottom. If you visualize it and you say, this is rock bottom, it isn't. It's when you are numb and hollow and alone and alone with your thoughts and they are either racing or you feel this deep sense of apathy or just... I don't know what to do next. Then I think you're close to rock bottom. So,

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Phoebe, tell us a little bit more about your story. What is the ultimate... part of what makes your story on our listeners to hear?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So it's definitely changed over the last couple of years due to what happened in my attack. So my story is still my pushing forward and making my acting and artistic career I wouldn't say it would validate anything, but I would say it would fulfill a destiny and a dream that I didn't know that I had or that I wanted to do. But I'm now fundamentally no longer the same person. You know, this was a watershed moment when you have to be resuscitated twice because of just how extensively you've been injured. It fundamentally changes you. I'm still trying to figure out my way back from that. I mean, to let your listeners know, I was attacked and stabbed 15 times, escorting a lady to her car after we had had a night out as a group. My injuries were extensive. My hand was cleaved in half and multiple stab points everywhere in my torso. And I was eviscerated with more than half my small intestine hanging out. So there was a lot of blood loss, huge amount of damage. Three surgeons to piece me back to And as I said, brought back twice. So once you experience something like that, you aren't quite the same. The perspective is different. The goal is the same. I still want to achieve the artistic vision, but now it's needing to not only piece my body back together, but my mind back together. So I know why I'm still going in this direction because I feel I still have to, I must, but the drive now is okay. Why am I still doing this? What's motivating me now? So that's the

SPEAKER_01 10:17

challenge. of this attack for?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

You know, I've been trying to understand what that is as well, because I'd met them that night. She was a stranger to me, and I heard a voice in my head that said, walk her to her car. So it was the four of us sitting at a table and just talking and having a good time, getting to know all each other. And then the other two were going to take their own Ubers back home. I was going to take mine as well. And this lady I was escorting, she lived close by. So she was to drive. And she's the one who drove us there. So it was going to be very easy. What we didn't know is when I heard this voice walk her to a car, it was literally a voice. I kid you not. It wasn't like, you know, when you have an instinct, it feels like a pressure inside your chest. This wasn't that. This was an actual voice that I heard from nowhere. And I went, okay. Then that internal pressure hit. So I asked her, may I walk you to your car? And she said, yeah, sure. And as we did, we stayed out the front door, he came out the side and started following us going, where are you guys going? Where are you going? Where are you going? And we were crossing the street at this point and we were trying to deescalate as best as we could until we got to the other side. And then when we realized that I tried to calm him down, she tried to calm him down. And when that didn't work, you know, there was something that was off and I pushed her out the way and I said, run. So she takes off running up the hill to where her car was. And then as I turned my head, the guy already had the knife going past my neck. Somehow, somehow, just the way I turned back, it was here. I charge forward and I start unloading my fist on his head. He's turtled up. He's slashing. And, you know, I get behind him. I'm about to break his arm because I've got him in a rear neck choke. I've got his arm behind him like this. And I'm about to break his arm, but I was a bit slow. And he, you know, he moved his head backwards and smashed him. in the face right on the nose, which would daze anyone for a moment. We both fall down to the floor, and then, because I was behind him and we fell backwards, he's now on top of me, and he's now literally doing this. He's stabbing down, trying to end me that way. I'm turtling up with jiu-jitsu, and I'm trying to dodge as best as I can, and I end up flipping him, moving to the side, spreading his legs with top control. And I'm trying to find his knife hand. So I'm feeling from his shoulder and I'm feeling all the way down, trying to see where it is so I can stop it and I can smack it into the ground and make him get rid of it because he's also been slashing my back while we are doing this. Unfortunately though, my left arm, which I'd used to grab him with initially I didn't tell it to do that. Why did my arm just... And then while I'm processing this, that's when he came through and stabbed me multiple times in the abdomen and then eviscerated me from there. So the last thing I remember prior to waking up in ICU was, well, I guess that's game over. Last thought I said to myself, well, game over. There was no fear. There was no, God, oh God, oh God. And that was just a simple matter of fact. So yeah, that's the incident. They caught him three days later. The police were They were incredibly appalled at the state they found me in. So they caught him three days later and the entire legal process took some time. But he was finally sentenced last year, late last year. Because I realized we're now in 2025. So I can say, yeah, he was sentenced to 10 years because he took a plea deal. He pled guilty. There were cameras everywhere. It was caught on camera, everything. So watching it being played back to me was surreal.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I can't believe they even made you. I mean, did you want to watch this?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

I didn't want to. I had to. You know, it's one of those where. Oh, yeah. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Did you ever find out why he did what he did? Did he ever say anything? Was he on meth or was he on something? drugs or what was the motivation for this? Did he ever say it in court?

SPEAKER_00 15:13

He could never look me in the eye in court. So I could never find out what a motive was. It was the most, I wouldn't say surreal thing, but it was the most frustrating thing sometimes because then I would wax and wane between, I care about it. I want to know why this happened. And then I go, well, I don't care about it. I protected someone who was going to get hurt because I think he was after her and I got in the way. That's what I said. suspect but we never really knew why it was only her second time being at that place he worked where we were by the way he was an employee there that's why his life was a cleaver his life was a cleaver

SPEAKER_01 15:54

not

SPEAKER_00 15:55

just a pocket knife it was cleaver because he was a sous chef right so that's why the damage was so

SPEAKER_01 16:00

expensive do you reckon there's a possibility that that well anyways okay that's besides the point i think that we humans always try to find like uh Right, right. What was going through, yeah, what was really going through your mind in this time?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

What was going through my mind was just, during the fight itself, it was genuinely, you're on autopilot. You know, I don't recall much of anything other than, I need to get that knife away from him. And how am I going to solve this as a puzzle? Because to me, it was an equation. Get it away from him, and once that's done, it'll be much easier to deal with what's happening. I didn't realise just how injured I was getting. And also, I didn't want to be too aggressive and end up having to kill him, because that was a possibility as well. because I was still going through the immigration process. And how would that look where, okay, you are going through this process, you are looking to get your green card, and oh, guess what? You've now just fatally wounded an American citizen. How does that look? It doesn't look good at all. So I was holding back and trying to use non-lethal methods of disarming him as opposed to going all out and going cry for my god on him and you know completely wrecking him and then game over with you right so that's what i was really thinking at that point i was thinking future steps of no no i still need my green cards i still need my immigration status to be approved i can't hurt you badly but i need to get that knife from you So that was my thought process.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Right. Now he leaves. Were you conscious the whole time when, you know, the police came or were you able to call for help? How did you manage to get, you know, pulled into the hospital emergency?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Well, just like I saved her life, she then in turn saved mine because I passed out at that point after the blood loss and evisceration, literally everything. I was out. But she's the one who called 911 one and they couldn't find me initially because i was half on the sidewalk half in a flower bed so my intestines were covered in dirt everything was just covered in dirt and mulch they had to wash me out like literally pull everything out or wash me out before they could start fixing

SPEAKER_01 19:10

anything

SPEAKER_00 19:11

my god so no she's the one who then got me back which i'm grateful for because it might have taken a few minutes i think it took about about four minutes for them to arrive arrive. Being 30 seconds longer, I would have been done. I wouldn't have been able to come back. The paramedics would not have been able to do anything. And I needed the kind of trauma center that you need. From my location, there were only two. It was Cedar Sinai and there was Providence in Mission Hills. So they took me to Providence and were literally blasting at the highway because it was late. It was something like 2.30 in the morning. There was minimal traffic and they prepped the three surgeons to arrive at that time. So do you

SPEAKER_01 19:54

know what was the medical procedures? Like what did they do? So I know you mentioned that they washed out all the parts. How were they able to sort of like put it all back together and get you functioning again at that point?

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Implants and a very, very, very good team of doctors. So I had a neurosurgeon put my hand back together and because my nerves were completely severed and my blood vessels were completely severed in my hand, the neurosurgeon had to do some very intricate work. At the same time, he's also a plastic surgeon. So when he stitched me up, he did immaculate work. Then I had another surgeon that specializes in cardiology and blood vessel work because my brachial artery in my arm was completely gone. So they had to repair that as well, or I'd lose the bottom of my arm. It wouldn't matter, but the hand was fixed. And they had to keep checking the blood flow to make sure the blood flow was going. The blood flow was going down to my hand. Otherwise, it was all for naught. And then I had another trauma surgeon that was working on fixing my abdomen. So they had to do a full incision from about my sternum all the way down to my pubic bone and move everything gently aside, wash it and clean it out, and then see what was too damaged to repair, cut that out, and then reconnect the intestine ends and then put them all back in. So it was kind of like, I thought of it as you are servicing a machine. You're doing a car service. is flopping out of parts but at the same time you've got to do a car wash first

SPEAKER_01 21:28

yeah

SPEAKER_00 21:29

yeah so that's how they repair me did they have to

SPEAKER_01 21:31

get like did they have to get any like donors for any organs or any of the body parts or were they

SPEAKER_00 21:36

able to just a lot of blood transfusions just a lot of blood transfusions a lot of blood transfusions right so fortunately I still have all my bits but they've got implants that are for example holding my my bowel back together in a certain place so that it doesn't move around in the wrong spot too much there was a nerve implant in my hand so it was able to move and there was like a thing they put into my arm as well so it was able to have that blood flow go because the first repair was uh There's still no blood flow. So he had to come back about five minutes later, reopen it and go, oh, that's the issue. And then shift something and then reassemble it. And that's how that happened. And how long

SPEAKER_01 22:21

did this? Imagine.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

I still have my tags. So they sit over here. How

SPEAKER_01 22:28

long did this whole thing take for them to do? I

SPEAKER_00 22:30

have no idea. I just remember waking up hours later. Maybe it was a day or two later.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Did you have any recollection of what had happened? Or like, did you even remember what had happened? Or were you like, where am I? What's going on? It

SPEAKER_00 22:47

was initially, where am I? And then it was, oh, you actually made it then. Okay, I'm awake. That's interesting. The second time, the first time I woke up, I was still really under anesthesia. You know, when you wake up after surgery, you weren't quite there. I woke up remembering phalanx of people around me all the doctors all the nurses like he's waking up he's waking up and i had my aunt there you know she was visiting me at the time so she was there and by my bedside and i remember opening my eyes having that initial thought and going okay but i woke up intubated so i still had machines breathing for me and it's the most real thing having a machine breathe for you because you feel it you try inhale and it pushes in air for you and then at the very bottom you feel Right. Right. Right. When he wakes up, will he still be in fight or flight, or can we leave him as is? And my aunt was restraining him. And she was right, because I was liable to get up, rip everything out. I'd get up and leave, and I'd fall over and expire right there and there. I'd rip everything out and keep going. I still had four machines connected, giving me all sorts of pain medication. I was still having this machine breathe for me. I was still completely hooked up. So there was a brain swell, a good idea. Wow. Yeah. It's waking up the second time. karma. Anesthesia has worn off a lot more. You can recognize a lot more people. Now you can start to motion for things or try to make sense of what's just happened.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

My gosh, I was just like, oh, that is so overwhelming just to listen to it. And I know you sent me some pictures as well. So now I'm having like little flashes of the images that I saw. Yeah. along with what you're saying. And it's just, it's all, yeah, there's a visual element of it too as well. No,

SPEAKER_00 25:21

it starts to make a bit more sense.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah, exactly. So, okay. So you've woken up a second time and now you've kind of reconciled, like you've understood, okay, this is what's happened and I'm actually alive. Firstly, the doctors must have been so proud that they've actually done this and succeeded. They must have been like, this is probably one of the biggest, biggest achievements, surgeries that we've successfully conducted. Right?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

I don't know. Those guys were rock stars. And I hate to say it. It's a trauma center. So they must see horrific things. I mean, I'm high up on that scale of, okay, well done. Good job, everyone. But I'm sure they've seen worse. But I also realize that I got incredibly lucky because I've seen people get stabbed once. once and they're dead.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

And not made it.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

I've seen the news articles and I go, then how? How did I pull through with the level of injury

SPEAKER_01 26:31

I had when I've heard of people getting stabbed just once? voice, she may not survive. Or something. Were you able, did you kind of go back to think that they're a connection?

SPEAKER_00 26:57

I've actually thought that exact same thought. And what I've said to myself is I was a tool. I was a tool. And I was able to listen to what that voice was because I felt compelled to. It was a genuine, oh, okay. And being a tool and protecting her. Yeah. is probably the reason why I made it, as opposed to other people being stabbed once and it's came over. So you are absolutely right. Absolutely right. I think it's one of those situations where once you've been given that, sure, now I'm altered for life. I'm sure she is mentally as well, because she had to see what she had to see. So she's a victim in this as well. There are no winners out of any of this. But that being said, I firmly believe that probably Yeah, that's

SPEAKER_01 28:00

true. I do want to go back to this situation. I want to also know more about the actual situation. But have you ever heard voices ever since then? And have you ever kind of leaned into those again? Or do you feel like leaning into this could be another very traumatic experience? Like, I'm not going to listen, maybe? Right? No,

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I actually haven't heard anything quite like it again. Not once. I'm sure you will have the odd instinct where you go, and I always listen to instinct. You know, it's okay, you'll be walking or driving along and something says, I'd rather take this road than that road. And you pay attention to it. And then you realize that, okay, something just happened down there. And you were just paying attention to what your instincts were telling you. I always listen to them. But I haven't heard anything quite like that ever again. Haven't heard anything about it before. Never heard anything about it like that again since. It was just that one-off. Would I do it again? Yes, because I have no regrets. It's one of those where, even though one is struggling right now with a lot of things, rather... that someone else is another statistic, which I believe she was going to be. And this was a reasonably safe place. You know, there were a lot of restaurants around. The academy building is directly opposite it, just to give you an idea. It's in North Hollywood. And yeah, no, that's a reasonably safe area. So for something like that to happen in a place like that is quite shocking. So to hear that voice and do what I had to do I think was just it was everything lining up the way it needed to

SPEAKER_01 29:44

I mean you are a literal hero there is like no other way to define or describe you as an individual I mean the fact that you've gone through that and you are sitting here today saying I would do that again knowing what I know knowing what I've been through is like I mean it takes a very very strong and powerful person to be able to say that because I mean yeah you were at the brink of you were at the brink of death. I mean, you'd gone through something so traumatic. And for you, what's more important is that I saved someone's life. Doesn't matter what had happened to me. What happens is that there was someone that could have died in that moment and didn't. That's the literal definition of it, of a hero.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I'm a tool and I needed to be used as a tool to, because maybe she's got something that she's going to be achieving in life that's greater than her as well. And, you know, this could be a watershed moment for her and help transform her life. And perhaps there's something that she wants to do that she now has, okay, I'm actually going to do this. Maybe she could have that ripple effect and change other people's lives for the better, you know, so you never know.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

What small action will have repercussions later on down the line. So that's something that I think about a lot.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah. Has she sort of been in your life ever since then? Was she around in the hospital when you were going through your recovery as well? How present was she?

SPEAKER_00 31:13

No. It was one of those situations where we were instructed to kind of keep distance because we hadn't testified yet. And we didn't want... cross-tainting our stories when we were taking the stand, trying to recollect what was happening at pre-trial. So it was just an initial contacted other friend that was there with us that night. And I asked, while I was in hospital, because I finally got my phone, and I asked, what happened? Because they'd been trying to get a hold of me. And they were like, well, this is what happened. And I went, yeah, I thought so. But then after that, you know, had to cut that connection until we could communicate. But we couldn't do that until a certain part of the legal process I'd gone through. So even when we were doing a pre-trial, we couldn't talk to each other. We had to be in second rooms. When she took the stand, I couldn't be in there. I had to be completely separate. Vice versa as well, so that we could see where the comparison was and see what the story was because of how serious it was. Stories matched, obviously. And in terms of our lives now, we can always pick up the phone and say hello, but we don't really... We don't talk. We don't talk at all, actually. That's something that surprises people. They go, are you guys together now? Was it happily ever after? And I go, no, she was a complete stranger to me. Sometimes you trauma bond, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you are just forever linked by something. And I think this is the latter. We are forever linked by this incident, but we didn't bond over trauma, you know? So there's no... There's no relationship that's deeper than that, if that makes any sense. But if you can pick up the phone, I can pick up the phone and we can just say hello. But emotionally, there's not too much there.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Do you reckon that if that line of conversation was opened, if either one of you sat down and actually recollected that moment together or talked about it or had like, I don't know, find yourself in a therapy session kind of together, that that could that would change a little bit the dynamic maybe sort of not necessarily that you both need it but rather to bring an end to bring a closure to what had happened or to have a sense of like yeah maybe maybe I don't know whether trauma bonding is helpful for an individual or healing for an individual but yeah

SPEAKER_00 33:46

that's an interesting question because I don't know how much she remembers or how much she saw before she got to her car so I don't know because she went straight to her car locked the door Hmm. Hmm. Perhaps one day we can sit down over a coffee and have a chat about it. But I don't think either of us have the impetus to right now. I'm certainly still going through my therapy sessions and still battling with certain mental health things that are affecting me, physical things that are affecting me. And I don't know just how much she's progressed in her journey to be able to feel safe and comfortable talking about these things just yet. So that's something to think about as well. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Can you tell me about what after, during that recovery process, that healing process, the physical aspects, what are the things that you are living with today? How is sort of like just general functioning happening for you now physically?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

I'm in pain daily. Even now that it's been a couple of years, I think, yeah, it's been, well, two years, time flies. It will actually be two years on the 16th of this month, 16th Jan, 2025. for the listeners by hand has partial paralysis so it's got limitations in its dexterity and how I can move it and how I can manipulate things so I'm not going to be building Ikea furniture too well let's put it that way even trying to I remember trying to cook something a few weeks ago and I was being really really pissed off by garlic because I'm trying to peel garlic And I wasn't smashing it. I was trying to cut it so I can peel it. And my hand got so fatigued and so painful that I had to just stop. And I went and bought peeled garlic instead because I couldn't complete it. And sometimes it aches and wakes me up at night and it just throbs. I have to wear compression, a compression sleeve, because again, my brachial artery was severed and had to be reconnected. So I've got a big old scar up here. and major scars over here so my hand and arm sometimes get tighter faster so I have to keep them in a certain temperature range otherwise they ache so if it's too hot I've got to make sure that I keep this arm cool if it's too cold I have to wear a compression glove or a normal glove and a compression sleeve underneath what I'm wearing so I can keep the arm in a certain temperature range which is its sweet spot abdomen wise yeah that one is annoying because after these so careful now what I do with my core because my hernia risk is so much higher and sometimes my abdominal muscles will spasm they'll lock or when I try and lie down or when I try and move a certain way especially underneath my scar there's a fair amount of pain and discomfort that happens in that area when it all hits at once that's going to be a bad night is what I realise there's nothing much I can do about the abdomen other than just taking out sprint and wait if my diaphragm locks or if one of my abs because it'll be one tightens and doesn't relax while the others relax or the bottom one will tighten and doesn't relax while the others relax or two will offset and you end up in this weird asymmetric situation where i'm hunched over like an old man and i can't straighten up because if i do it's just agony so like you know when you get um ramp or yeah what do they call it like a charlie's horse or whatever they call it. I don't know. You just ramp up and you can't move. It's like that. And then when it's like that, it's bad. But sometimes it's just really painful internally where you know, okay, this is now on the inside. It's not the muscle. It's the inside that is aching. So one deals with that and some dietary issues as well now. So that is the general gist of the physical. In addition to all the other scars that I had to take this staples out. I didn't have staples to be staples at that point. Getting those taken out, we missed one. Nurse, we missed

SPEAKER_01 38:24

one. One more here, please.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

We actually had that. We thought we had them all. And then I'm lying back down and I realise, oh no, we have it. Oh no, we have it. Coming back from hospital, it was wide open and it had to close on its own. Otherwise, it gets septic because there's fluid drainage there. So that was interesting to say the least. I'm

SPEAKER_01 38:46

bedridden

SPEAKER_00 38:48

and I've got galls packed into that wound. So the picture that you saw where it was wide open heading down, that was what we had to pack with galls and then wrap around with this really tight elastic and then wait. So that took months for that to close up. And I've got a nice scar from here all the way down, all the way here, and then scars everywhere else. Psychologically I can tell you, looking at yourself from the mirror now, because my stomach is now two halves. I've got a left hemisphere and a right hemisphere because the scar goes right down my middle. So sometimes, you know, I'll go, well, I guess that six-pack will never return. But, you know, that's the physical at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yeah. You mentioned that your intestines basically had come out. So in terms of what are some of the effects of that, like if you're damaged on the intestines, other than like digestion or diets you mentioned? How

SPEAKER_00 39:48

else does that work? comes to, okay, now I'm cramping because my intestines aren't happy. So there are three types of cramp. It'll be cramping because I'm sitting in a certain position and it's moved my internal bowels in a certain way that they are pressing up against each other in a way they don't like. There's the bloating from when you eat something and then it just, no, that's not fun. And then there's the muscle parts, which I've explained earlier with that individual back and forth spasming, which means when I'm trying to do exercise, for example. everything starts with your core. You don't realize how much you do with your core when you exercise, right? If you're doing it properly. So with the increased hernia risk, and I could feel it opening sometimes, like the top bit near my sternum, I can feel the scar start to stretch if I'm not careful, or the bottom bit start to bulk out. Sometimes it blisters because it's keloided, so I've got to look after that now. And then the blister bursts, and then it's just a whole thing that you deal with later. So...

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Were there some things that the doctors basically warned you to be really careful of, be mindful of, like what to do, what not to do? Even in terms of exercise, did they tell you like minimal exercise or no exercise or what kind of things?

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Honestly, the trauma surgeons and all of that didn't give me much of anything. They just said, yeah, just watch out for the hernia risk. That's about it. And I've had to feel my way through and rediscover what my body now can. and can't do so for example I can't hold a weight a certain way otherwise it presses up too much on the inside of my hand I found that I can't use a salt and pepper grinder like you know when you grind something like that so I've had to buy electric ones which are amazing by the way you need to get those push a button there goes your salt push another button there goes your pepper they are brilliant amazing so no they never really gave me any instructions My PT, my physiotherapist, he gave me some instruction. Certain things that you shouldn't be doing, for example, twisting motions, like when you do Roman twists with the ball, forget it. That's a bad idea. Holding things a certain way, don't think about it. And I found that with time, I don't know if some of your listeners will relate to this, but neurologically, if I'm not concentrating that I have something in my left hand which is getting worse don't know why it's gotten worse maybe it's the cold maybe it's not I will drop it because it will disconnect my brain. So I have to be aware that I'm holding something. Or if I'm reaching for something with my left hand and it's a bad day for it, sometimes I will knock what I'm trying to pick up first before I can scramble. So I find myself thinking, okay, I'll reach with my, no, safety first, because you will knock everything out the medicine cabinet when you try and get that toothpaste with your left hand, even though it reaches your right. So it's things like that that you have to think about. And then bracing it when it comes. what it needs to be.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Right. In a sense, do you find that to be really frustrating because you're constantly having to remember and remind yourself of the trauma that maybe you don't want to always think about so at the forefront every single time? Do you find that to be frustrating or do you find it the opposite where you're actually appreciating that, hey, I've developed a new sense of self-awareness that I never used to before? How do you view it?

SPEAKER_00 43:42

It's actually a weird combination of both. When it's affecting me mentally because I feel the limitation and I feel it's now getting tired. I need to compensate now in a different way or I need to just stop and call it. And it's affecting me mentally in a negative way. That's not good because then I start to feel I'm heading into a dangerous headspace. But then there are also days where I go, well, I guess I just learned something new today about myself and I can laugh at myself. Whichever one comes depends on how the day has been going. You know? So it really does vary. But I have both. I have both.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Yeah. So that's what we're going to segue into the next question about the mental and the emotional and the psychological sort of processing of all of this over the time, over these two years. Walk me through that whole journey of how that's been for you.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

It's been absolute hell. It's worse than the physical. And the pain that I felt during recovery and in the hospital was some of the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. couple of days, I was curled up in the fetal position, vibrating. I was in such pain. I couldn't speak. I couldn't move. All I could do was vibrate. I'd much rather take that than have to deal with the mental and the emotional pain that I once had to deal with. And I call it pain because that's what it feels like. It's a combination of the body's been hurt and the mind has been fractured and hurt as well. And trying to piece that back together... It's still one of the biggest challenges of my life. And I fail often. And I fail hard. And when I do, it's quite destructive. So there's still a long way for me to come back. I didn't realize just how hard this would be. This is the hard bit.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

How do you find generally that you respond to it? Do you let out a cry? Do you shout and scream? What does it look like to you? How does it manifest for you? I

SPEAKER_00 45:48

definitely I'm not one who shouts and screams very much, although I did do a kind of a retreat where we were encouraged to, but you couldn't hear each other. Everyone was wearing headphones, so you couldn't hear each other scream, which was interesting. That had some release. But typically, if I'm feeling emotional about something or I'm feeling fundamentally broken, because that's what the feeling is. It's a feeling of being broken. That's what it's bad for me. I feel broken. Being able to sit with something and just silently sob. I allow myself that. I allow those tears to flow because if I fight them, then I'm only fighting myself at that point. And I do that enough already. You know, we self-punish enough already. And at that point, you really shouldn't have no choice but to release. So yeah, I will allow myself to cry. I will allow myself to feel sad. But then there are other things that are very healthy you know there are times when I'm feeling just in such a way that I don't leave my bedroom for days or days never mind the house my bedroom

SPEAKER_01 46:58

for

SPEAKER_00 46:58

days because you feel a deep sense of shame you feel trapped in your own mind sometimes and you you feel like you can't do anything right and then why isn't everything getting better and then you know then your body hurts and then it's a vicious cycle that takes you round and round so yeah the mental aspect is tough really is the emotional.

UNKNOWN 47:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

how has therapy sort of been helping you and what were some things that you've what are some revelations you've had in therapy

SPEAKER_00 47:31

we've been trying a lot of things with my therapist because certain things were better than others so we've tried our EMDR we've tried just talking it out and letting that go through and we've tried breath work the power of the inhale exhale we've done everything in the book depending on what I was feeling feeling at the time and what would be the most effective at the time. And as one has evolved, I mean, I'm still not better, not by a long shot, but I've gotten better than what I was. So as one has evolved, the methods have evolved. So now talking is usually really good.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Do you find that in those moments that now you've kind of, like when you're feeling exceptionally vulnerable in certain moments, that you're able to, in that moment, turn to someone a partner a family member a friend someone that you know you feel safe with and say this is where I'm at right now mentally and emotionally like and kind of take in or accept the you know the other voice of reason the other voice of support to help you lift out of it I

SPEAKER_00 48:44

have people who I could reach out to the problem is not feeling like a burden because when you are wired the way I am when you reach out to someone with something as heavy as this, and you are coming with some powerful emotions or some just really, really deep feelings, they are expensive to process for the other person as well, because if they are holding space for you, it also costs them a little bit of something, even though it also costs you something. So not wanting to be a burden kind of acts as a hurdle to reaching out. And I'm sure what happens to many, many people, but once you are able to get over that, that fact, even if it's just leaving a message to someone, I've been able to do that. I will also say that some of these AI tools that one can use offline aren't bad either. I've got some local models that I run locally on my computer or on my phone, and I will literally chat to an AI chatbot and say, I'm feeling like this, this, this, and this, and this. It's a weird way to journal, but to me, it keeps my privacy because it's running locally on my machine so I know that it's not adding up on a cloud somewhere and it's just another tool in the arsenal for when I feel no one's available and I don't feel like being a burden to bother someone to be available so that's

SPEAKER_01 50:08

actually super interesting because I mean AI has been the talk of like you know the recent days and I haven't had a single person ever come up to me and tell me that they've ever used AI for an emotional support but I can imagine it being quite supportive yeah

SPEAKER_00 50:23

exactly It's really interesting. You run it through there. And yeah, for me personally, it's something that I've been doing recently. I didn't start my journey with it, but I find that it does help augment. When I have the wherewithal and the... I don't want to say stability, but yeah, when I have the wherewithal and the emotional stability and the mindfulness to reach out, because sometimes you just can't settle enough to meditate. You can't settle enough to do breath work. You can't settle to do something. You need to just talk. So that's something that I found as a useful tool as well. And I'm sure other people do the same.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

That's amazing. So next question for you is, what did you think when the jury, when the decision was made about the, what was it, I forgot the word that I wanted to say, conviction? What was the ruling on the decision about him? 10-year sentencing. What were your thoughts on that? Did you feel relieved? Did you feel that that was a fair ruling?

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Well, that was a rough week because I knew that the sentencing was coming. I knew he'd taken a plea deal, so there wasn't going to be a trial, there wasn't going to be a jury, there was going to be none of that. He was just going to plead and then be sentence. So they're guilty. But because they were able to prove some mental instability that night on his own part, they reduced it from attempted murder one, which would have carried a maximum of 21 years, to attempted murder two, which meant a maximum of 10 years. But they were able to do the grievous bodily injury. So it helped the sentencing guidelines just because of how bad it was. So when you are going through sentencing, You as the victim are allowed to do a victim impact statement. And anyone that has been affected negatively by your experience as well. And I knew that the date was coming. I knew the date was coming. I knew the date was coming. And I put it off and I put it off and I put it off because I didn't know what to write. Couldn't figure it out. Didn't want to approach it. Couldn't approach it. And then the morning of, the morning of, I was able to put something to paper and stood out so that my roommate would have of copy because she too has had to live with me and that's been tough and you know the judge was the nicest judge I have ever encountered incredibly empathetic and it just allowed me the time and I read from it and And as I was reading from it, he's sitting just over there. Again, he could never look at me in court. So he was in his orange jumpsuit and he's just looking down and he's just looking down. You know, he kept his mouth shut, didn't look at me at all, not even when I came up. And for me, I was just, I was as honest as I could with that, with that. And I just said, I hope you get the help you need and find a measure of peace because right now that's what we all need. That's what I ended with.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

If you could have a chance to see him today, face to face, what would you want to say to him?

SPEAKER_00 53:38

I haven't really thought about that. I haven't really thought about that. I would probably lead with something like, how's your healing? There's obviously something that he's had to heal from or that he was damaged from, whether he was nuts, whether he wasn't, whether he was angry, whether he wasn't, I don't know. but I would lead with compassion first. Then I would lead with the why, because now I have him in front of me. So if I were to see him, I'd start with, how's your healing? And that has so many meanings and so many connotations that it's also a question that I'd be silently asking myself at the same time. So that I'm able to set myself up for what the rest of the conversation will look like.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Yeah. What do you think, and I'm going to have this be one of my last questions. What do you think he could say, one, to either push you in that direction towards healing and forgiving, and what do you think he could say to send you on a negative spiral?

SPEAKER_00 54:44

What

SPEAKER_01 54:44

are the possibilities of things that he can say

SPEAKER_00 54:47

that can push you? What

SPEAKER_01 54:49

are the

SPEAKER_00 54:49

possibilities? Yeah. I'm not quite sure what he could do to send me on healing. Maybe, I think, starting with...

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Like, do you think if he was to genuinely say, I am so, so sorry for everything... Do you think that that would help?

SPEAKER_00 55:04

It'd be a start. But then I'd go, so what have you done about it? What have you done to atone for it? Because you can say, I'm deeply, deeply sorry and genuinely mean it. But then I believe that, okay, you can apologize for something, but then you have to make it up somehow. Try to balance the scales, you know? So have you gone and, I don't know, finished a degree or gone and started a youth program or whatever you've done? to try and balance the karma scales. And what would send me on a spiral would probably be, I'd say it's probably something that has to do with my self-worth, whatever that would be at the time. Perhaps he says something that undermines the work that one has been doing. He goes and says something that sets me back in terms of my self-worth, whether it's the physical or the mental or the emotional. I think that would would be one of the triggers there.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

So Bibi, last question. Tell us where are you at now in terms of your career, in terms of your journey, in terms of, you know, you're sitting here today sharing your journey on air with us. So I want to know sort of like where you stand today.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Where I stand is still marching forward. You know, I posted something on my social a week ago that said, feet on the ground, head in the clouds or in the sky. Eyes forward. so I'm still working on the healing I'm still working on my mental health I'm still working on getting better because it's a journey and I can definitely say that I'm not quite there yet so still working on that where I can and when it comes to work and the career and all of that well I'm only just starting to come back so we are hoping that this year is going to be a decent year and we have some luck and some success which has been a lot better than it has been the last couple of years I'm hoping for good fortune and to balance the scales because I think my debts, not my physical debts, those are very high. I think my debts have been paid. So now the universe has an IOU for me, please.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Vivi, I really, really appreciate you being on the podcast with us today. And I really hope that you get to writing a book. You might even want to use that chat GPT to help you put together all of that journaling and help you to write this book. If you do get to it, please do send over the links. I I am definitely going to get my hands on that future book of yours and also for our listeners as well. So yeah, I really, really appreciate you sharing this on air.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

It's been an absolute pleasure and I really appreciate you giving me the space and your listeners giving me the space to hear what's been happening. Thank you for staying with me this entire time, especially when I will ramble a bit and I appreciate you all.

UNKNOWN 58:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help support the show, please follow and subscribe. You can rate and review your feedback on any of our platforms listed in the description. I'd like to recognize our guests who are vulnerable and open to share their life experiences with us. Thank you for showing us we are human. Also, a thank you to our team who worked so hard behind the scenes to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

The

SPEAKER_01 58:28

show would be nothing without you. I'm Jenica, host and writer of the show, and you're listening to... Multispective.