0105 How to Communicate Better in Dating, Work & Conflict

Unhealthy relationships can feel like a whirlwind, and that speed can be the point. We sit down with Laurilyn to trace how early conditioning around silence, safety, and approval can echo into adulthood as people pleasing, self-abandonment, and repeating the same relationship dynamics. Her story moves from a childhood shaped by fear and consequences to the reality of emotional abuse, violence, and the complicated question of when it’s safe to speak your truth.

From there, we get practical about healing. Laurilyn explains why personal safety is her top core value, how she exits conversations that aren’t safe, and what it looks like to rebuild self-trust one choice at a time. We also dig into concrete self-love practices that aren’t fluffy, including daily journaling, “dating yourself,” and learning to stop outsourcing your worth to partners. The big shift is moving from need and negotiation to alignment and boundaries.

Then the lens widens to communication skills. Laurilyn shares what solo travel taught her about nonverbal communication, tension, and the power of the unspoken. She breaks down her CHAT Communication System, a communication styles framework designed to help you meet people where they are, whether you’re navigating dating, family dynamics, leadership, or workplace conflict. You’ll also hear actionable tips for writing emails and CVs that land with different communication styles.

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Transcript

Cold Open On Fast Toxic Bonds

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Unhealthy relationships move really fast. It felt very isolating. I developed anorexia novosis when I was a teenager. Anorexia is actually a form of control. But the one thing that has been most important in my healing journey is the willingness to actually face what is uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

How did you kind of even find that voice after years of conditioning?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

That is how I make all my decisions, is based off of my core values, and my first one is personal safety. I ended up having a near-death experience. If I don't do this now, when am I gonna do it?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

The undertones, the nuances, the facial expressions, the body language, all of those things that are are that go completely missing when we are communicating online.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

The most important communication is the non-verbal communication. My personal core values need to be in alignment with whoever I choose as a partner. I can take care of myself.

Welcome And Early Family Life

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Laurelyn, welcome to Multispective. I'm so excited to have you on air with us to share your story. So thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

So, Lauren, can you tell us a little bit about sort of like where does your story begin? Like from the very beginning, you know, who is Laurelyn?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I grew up in Long Island, New York, and what looked like a really um classic family and mom and dad who played traditional roles. My dad worked, my mom was a stay-at-home mom, and I am one of four siblings. I'm the youngest by 10 years. So basically, by the time I was seven, I lived like an only child. And my experience of growing up with my parents was very different from my siblings' experience with my parents because my mom was in a different place of life. She was uh what I now assume to be, she was in metopause when I was a teenager, and it was felt very isolating, which I think led her to some of the experiences that I had with her. In my family, you know, words mattered. I didn't realize until recently how conditioned I am around being meticulous with my words. I was groomed to walk on eggshells to make sure I was saying the right thing to control my environment to keep me feeling like I was safe. When we said something or did something that didn't align with my parents, it would come at a consequence of, you know, the cold shoulder or uh, you know, being disowned from the family kind of, or even to one point, you know, getting kicked out of the house when I was younger. And so what happened, what actually transpired out of that was I developed anorexia novosis when I was a teenager. If it wasn't for my gymnastics coach, who one day we were getting changed for a meet, and she recognized how skinny I had gotten, and she brought the concern up to my mom, and then my mom did do the right thing and take me to um to see a therapist and to uh help me resolve that issue. But I didn't realize then that anorexia is actually a form of control, of wanting to have control.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

What what is it about food that people feel like they can have that sense of power or control over?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Well, it's interesting because I was just reading recently an article about how food is, when we're born, it is our first form or experience with nourishment and support. And honestly, Jenica, when I saw myself in the mirror, I saw and I I tried to, I did a I did a talk many when I was younger, and I can't even believe that I did this, and I was ex sharing with people, it was a class for college, it was a public speaking class or something, and I brought in like um mirrors for everybody and asked them to tell me what they saw, and then I said to them, when I looked in the mirror, I didn't see how skinny I was. I saw a distorted image of a of a teenage girl who was overweight, like and you know, so my my imagery of myself was distorted.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

You mentioned that you felt like you were kind of always walking on eggshells around your parents, and that you have to be really careful about what you said. And um, what was that like then, even in terms of like building relationships with friends, with teachers, with your peers, with partners, potential crushes, boys? What was that like?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Well, that you know, um let's see, I I will tell you that in recent years, as I started my journey of healing, I realized that that has showed up. It I don't know that I have fully been present in my relationships. And what I mean by that is um I have done such, I've been, it's conditioning, right? And it's learned behavior, and I have decades of it. And so I started to realize, like, oh, I kept myself small to

Anorexia As Control And Self Image

SPEAKER_00 4:50

be to keep myself safe and to keep myself protected and to be in control of my environment. And I've continued to do that, that no longer serves me. I'm not in the same situation, but I'm continuing that kind of behavior, and I started to get curious around like, how is this showing up with the relationship with my children? How is it showing, how did it show up in my previous relationships? And I realized this has a bigger impact than me just trying to uh keep myself safe. It has those things served me when I was younger, but they're not serving me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

How did you kind of even find that voice after years of conditioning where you were taught to suppress that voice? How did you even know what is your honest truth?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I've invested a lot in my healing process, therapy sessions to like human design, to um workshops, to or you know, uh uh coaching, um, you know, along the way. And I've had a lot of guides who have helped me, but the one thing that has been most important in my healing journey is the willingness to actually face what is uncomfortable. And so when you start to take the deep dive and do for me, when I was doing the work, it first started showing up as shame. Like, oh my gosh, you let men do that to you. And

Learning Silence Through Childhood Trauma

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I was like, no, I was conditioned to believe that I needed to let men do that to me. When I was seven, I was held up at gunpoint in a bank robbery. We're driving into the bank, and you know, this is a time where cell phones are not around. It's like payphones, right? I'm bringing you way back to my time. And my mom was making a left into the parking lot, and the bank robber, unbeknownst to us, was making a right, and he waved my mom to go first. And my mom was like, Oh, how nice. He waved, I remember this. Like she was like, He's so nice, he's letting us go first. And you know, five minutes later he pops in with a stocking over his head and and a gun and telling us all to, you know, we're in a holdup. And my mom was at the bank counter and she turned around and said, You have to be kidding me. Like, I remember what she said to a T. And then he had us on the floor, and I was very wiggly and uncomfortable. And, you know, and right then, you know, I learned that you know, it it came back to that money and and mails and speaking truth and standing up for yourself really came at a price, right? Like uh it came at a consequence in that very moment. That that was a choice where you know, I think it was smart to not say anything. So it's all about like when do we speak our truth in a way that's safe for us, you know? And I always tell people like if you're in a conversation, my personal safety, Jenica, is my number one personal core value. That is how I make all my decisions, is based off of my core values. And my first one is personal safety. And I realize that I'm not in a safe conversation, I will exit. I always coach people in that we speak our truth to the level of your safe, your personal safety. And it's okay to find a way out of a conversation that doesn't feel safe. And I recognize, I always tell people, I will be in conversation with you while you have an open mind. The moment that I feel that you're not open to exploring the possibilities and respecting, you know, where we each stand and recognizing that that might be different at this time, and that's okay. I will reserve my energy and and back, I will say thank you for sharing. It's not that I'm saying you're right and I'm wrong, right? I'm not gonna give them that, but I will say thank you for sharing, and by the way, I have to go, or I will try to change the subject and then I will find a way out.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Have you ever felt your personal safety has been compromised, uh, other than those two experiences that is leading you to kind of prioritize that so much?

Violence, Assault, And Reclaiming Safety

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yes. Because of my conditioning, I believe it, you know, I always tell people I'm groomed from the womb to believe that I needed a man to survive. And I did for a long time believe that I needed somebody. And so I would um I would leave, I would abandon myself and become whatever I needed to become in order to be in those relationships. And that put me in very, very bad situations. I ended up in unhealthy relationship after unhealthy relationship over my time. Um, I ended up one of my one of my relationships ended up when I did finally speak my truth. I ended up having a near-death experience. He it became physical. He started to um, you know, choke me in a bathroom and bang my head up against the the bathroom wall. And I thought, I'm not getting out of here alive. And somehow I reached over. I don't know how I grabbed it. I grabbed a mirror, I smacked him over the head with the mirror, and I was able to run. And as I was heading for the front door, he grabbed me by my hair and flung me back. And thank goodness the basement door was shut because I would have gone backwards down a basement door. I ended up getting a nice doorknob bruise on my on my rear end. Um, and then I was able to get out of the house and I ran into the middle of the street. It was a busy street, and I ran to the nearest gas station um to get some support. But because I was bleeding and it, you know, the the person at the gas station said he didn't want to be involved. And it was it was a terrifying moment for me. Um and I did try to I did prosecute him a year of, you know, the the them stalling, and they ended up giving him a plea, a plea. I did take all my vacation time. Oh my I did everything that I could to show up in court every time that he was scheduled for court because I wanted to make sure that he couldn't harm another woman. And that experience of being drugged and raped took me to a very dark place, Jenica. It took me to a place of contemplating life in general. Because it, you know, everybody told me when that happened, I wanted to do something about it. And people said, Well, first it took me to a dark place. I'm gonna just be transparent about that. And I needed to get help, and it was a really surreal moment for me because I did a lot of advocacy. I would work with the women's shelters and go in and teach classes at the women's shelter, and I'm now being brought as a patient to the very women's shelter that I actually served. And my friend who drove me for my first um session, my therapy session, after um after this this incident, uh, I remember sitting outside with her and looking at the door and seeing Rape Crisis Center and thinking, this time I walk through the door, it's different. After working on some therapy, and really I started to feel like I'm I'm here. My my personal mission in life since I can remember Jenica was to be um, you know, uh to help myself and others transform through my written and spoken words. And here I am, I'm being silenced. I'm being told that talking about it, reporting it, doing any of those things would be, you know, not only work suicide, like I would never get hired again. It also turned into that um, you know, it would be he's he said, she said it would be a long process. I've already been there, done that with the case that I just told you about. Um, and then there was the other side, like we, you know, there's these people telling me don't do it, don't, you know, don't do it. It's gonna end up awful for you, which if you look at society, anytime women come out and speak about these things, they end often end up being re-triggered and rewounded. And so there is evidence that that that could have that could be possible. Um, and then there was the other side that people were guilting me and telling me that I needed to, that I was responsible for any woman that became after me. And it was like, I just went through a traumatic experience where I was contemplating taking my own life, and now you're throwing that extra burden onto me that it is my responsibility. And you know, and I don't feel like that's fair either. So it's kind of this place, right? Of like, so when I say personal safety is my number one core value, it's because I have led my conditioning, I allowed to dictate and how I feel that I need to keep my or how I used to feel that I needed to keep safe, ended me up in very bad situations.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

So it's ironic, isn't it, though? Because you mentioned that like the the day that you decided to speak up to your ex-partner that happened. The day that you decided to kind of like seek out for help for yourself and your career, that happened. It's almost like how did you kind of like put those thoughts together and seeing that these external situations were some somehow like a theme for you to kind of like change a certain, you know, how how were you able to sort of like connect those two things and see this as like a running theme that you had to make certain changes in your uh way of you know seeing the world?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Well, it's interesting because at first I didn't see them in that aspect. I saw it at first, you know, at this point, this is 2019 when I was um drugged and and raped. At first, I saw it as oh, if I speak my truth, bad things happen to me, right? Because that's what my childhood conditioned me for. If I speak my truth, bad things happen to me. I'm in a bank robbery, bad things happen to me, right? Um I you know, I'm in these relationships, I'm being beaten near to death, and then you know, being drugged and assaulted, you know. So my ego started to

Breaking The Pattern Before Turning 50

SPEAKER_00 14:25

tell me that when I speak my truth, bad things happen to me. And so I went on from that to have several unhealthy relationships. Um, it wasn't until Janica, in my 50s, right before my 50th birthday, and hopefully my last unhealthy relationship, um, I realized my mom, I have compassion for my mom and an understanding for her that I didn't when I was a teenager. And I mentioned earlier that we grew I grew up in a very traditional family. My dad worked, my mom did all the cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house, taking care of the children. She had no job, she didn't have her high school, you know, her high school diploma. She never, because of her childhood and how bad her childhood was, she never finished her basic high school diploma. And now she's in a marriage where she hasn't worked in years and she doesn't know the financial, you know, he did all my dad did all the finances, so she doesn't know what the financials are. And um, I believe that she stayed in that relationship because of fear of what would happen. And if she did stay, you know, if she had to. So my mom, in essence, taught me how to keep myself safe from her example without even knowing that she was doing that. And I now have compassion for that because she didn't see a choice. And as my mom got older, she got sicker and sicker, and she ended up in a wheelchair for the golden years of her life, what we all strive to live to finally make it to where we could be happy. So, what happened was I was in this relationship that was not a healthy relationship for me, and I was about, I was engaged and I realized, oh my gosh, I was about to turn 50. And as I was contemplating this and like zooming out, right? Because when we're in other people and somebody's constantly in your head, it's hard to hear that inner voice. That inner voice is so quiet, you know. I once said to myself when I was writing in my journal about I needed the inner voice to be louder, and what came out next, Jannica, was no, you just need to be more quiet so you can hear it. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I chose to take some time alone so that I could get right in my head. And what I realized was that if I did move forward with this relationship and end up getting married, I would be just like my mother.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Were you looking at certain patterns in that relationship that made you realize that you were also quite unlike inequal, unequal in that relationship? Um, like other than the finance, but like you know, other patterns in his behavior as well that made you realize that okay, this is gonna be a codependent relationship, or rather, I'm gonna be more dependent on him.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, it was a perfect storm, actually. Uh and now, you know, in retrospect, right? There's a saying that we live life forward, but we understand it backwards, right? So, in retrospect, like my dad had just passed away and I was taking care of my mother. And when I was taking care of my mother, I'm not trained to to bathe a person in a wheelchair. I never thought that I would be changing my mother soiled undergarments, like it was so much harder. Caretaking for loved ones is so much harder than I ever thought. And anybody who's going through it, I have sympathy for because it requires a lot. And it was like having a baby. I would, I would, instead of, you know, when she was sleeping in the brief moments that she was sleeping, I was trying to work my business. So I wasn't sleeping, I was way off a off kilter, and I was perfect for the picking because I was already emotionally unstable. So when he came into my life, it was like, oh, finally, somebody who can help me, somebody who's gonna step in and take and and see and give me some relief. And what I recognize now, it moved for me. Unhealthy relationships move really fast. And the reason that they move really fast for me, what I've learned, is that it keeps us off balance, it keeps it very noisy in the head so that you can't hear your inner guidance for me. That's how it was. And so that was one of the things it moved very quickly. He he also did his research. He knew that I was infatuated with the the idea of being love, you know, in love, you know, that I loved love and I wanted to be in love. At the time, I was watching The Bachelor, and you know, it became like this ongoing joke for him. So the breadcrumbing was, I'm going to marry you from a very early point because he knew that was one of my hooks, right? And then the whole financial thing was, you know, I didn't COVID hit, and my whole speaking business in 24 hours disappeared in front of me via email. And back then, speakers, we didn't have clauses about natural disasters. And all I just every time I opened my inbox, there was we're canceling the speaking engagement, we're canceling the speaking engagement. And it was like watching just my whole business disintegrate in front of my eyes. He said, Well, you don't need to worry about that. This way you could he had he had children living at home, so I was taking care of children again, even though mine were grown. He owned a business, so I was helping him with his business. I was cooking, cleaning. His dad got sick with cancer. I was helping support that his mom and dad. I was so busy doing everything for everybody else that I didn't focus on my own business. I didn't try to resuscitate it. Um, and then I became financially dependent on him. So it was the bread crumbing, right? It was the finding what he knew would be my triggers and then honing in on that. And at first he was very loving and affectionate, but that soon turned into um, you know, verbal verbal abuse, right? And the withholding, all the things that my childhood brought up, the cold shoulder. When people give me the cold shoulder, it's like, oh my God, what did I say? What did I do? How do I make it better? How do I get that attention back? How do I get that love back? How do I earn it? How do I so I never knew, right? I was always curating myself to chase something that never existed in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Talk to me about like those tools that you developed by that point.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, at that point I had already been doing some coaching specifically with human design. Uh it works for some people, not every tool is for every person, but for me, it really worked to understand myself, my blueprint. Um, I also had been working, you know, with psychologists and you know, um, therapy and counseling for you know all the assaults and things of that nature. So, and I've been going to programs like landmark education, which is a self-help, I call it self-help on like, you know, steroids because you go into a room for a weekend and I did all their programs. I was reading a ton of books. I really was thirsty. I knew that life had to be more, and I was really thirsty on how I can make it look different. So when I finally came out of the brain fog, right, of the relationship, when I got to take time for myself and was able to zoom out and see this is a pattern, you know. And I said to myself, okay, you know, this is again the honest truth. When you have to have a conversation with yourself, I it's gonna come at a consequence. And the consequence is that I'm gonna be 50 years old and I'm gonna be homeless, jobless, and broke, and starting all over again. Now, that was not the first time I reinvented myself. But now here I am in my 50s, and I'm like, I know that this is the consequence that I'm going to make by stepping into my truth. And then I had to look at what was the other side of that. And the other side was to me was being in a relationship where I never got to fulfill my life purpose, to live out my dreams, to be the person who I knew I felt inside of me, right? And then I had the visual of my mom in her wheelchair. And so it was like that tilted the scales. It was like, yes, I have all this fear over here, but this fear over here is much bigger. So, you know, and you know, I always tell people I jumped without a parachute. When I left him, I did I had no idea where I was living. I didn't know how I was gonna take care of myself. I um I didn't have any belongings at that point. Um I had zero zilch. So then I said, okay, if I this is my commitment to myself that I'm gonna work on myself and I'm going to heal this so that in this lifetime that I can experience what a healthy, loving relationship looks like. And it's not always with the other. I'm not interested in that relationship with the other. If it comes along and I get to have that experience, it's wonderful. But I'm talking about a healthy, loving relationship with myself. Have you ever read the book by Julia Cameron, The Artist Way? Have you ever read it? Jennifer? I haven't.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

No, I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Okay. Well, she has this daily practice of journaling every single day, three pages, and you journal every day. And I do it, I've been doing it since 2017. That's part of my healing journey. It because uh it's a dialogue with yourself, and the more you do it, the more intimate it becomes. And so I hardly ever miss a day of my um my morning pages. But the one thing that she taught me in that book was the art of dating the self, taking myself out on

Journaling And Dating Yourself

SPEAKER_00 23:55

dates. Yeah, and I got I am so good, Jenica, at dating myself now that I don't know if I could tolerate anything less than how I treat myself now. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Yeah, I love that. What kind of dates do you take yourself out on?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah, you know, I will do something like I will take myself to see Andre Abucelli, um, or I will take myself to a walk on the beach. I will like it, doesn't have to be elaborate. When I cook myself dinner, I eat on my finest china. Uh even if I'm having water, I drink in this cool like retro 50s martini cup, you know, and I have and you know, and then I take time to do the plating. And for me, it's like telling myself on a regular basis that I love me. I buy myself flowers, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. You just have to figure out, like, I had to sit with like what do what does Laura Volyn love to do? What does she love to do? And I was like, oh, I love live music. Well, I can go someplace and listen to live music and not have to spend money. So it doesn't need to be an elaborate night out with Andrea Buccelli and dinner, those are special occasions, but it's really about how do you find the things that bring you joy and then do those things because the more acts of self-love that I do for myself, the more I realize I'm not willing to compromise who I am because I'm not seeking it from outside of me anymore. And when I went to my first Andrea Buccelli concert on Valentine's Day by myself, and I'll never forget the lady greeting me, taking me, I'm taking my ticket. She said, just you? Like there was something wrong with that. You know, it was on Valentine's Day, it and it was, you know, it was Andrea Buccelli's concert, and she said, Just you, and I'll never forget that. I was like, I am I not enough? Like, like, where does this come from? And so I got really comfortable with that. I mean, so much so it led me across the globe by myself.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

I was gonna ask you about that. I wanted you to share that as well, because I mean that's huge as well. It's a huge feat, especially for sometimes like women, right? The idea of like going and traveling on their on your own, the safety issues and all of that. Um, talk to us about that. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Well, it was interesting because you know, I wanted after I left that relationship, when I said no more, I'm never gonna do this again, and I got real serious. I hired coaches, I read books, I went to therapy. I my job was my self-healing. And I I took it very, very seriously and I tried on all the things I ever thought I wanted to do. I thought I wanted to live in an RV and travel in an RV. Well, I bought an RV, I renovated it, it was gorgeous. Three months in it, I hated it, right? So I sell the RV and um and then

Selling Everything To Travel Solo

SPEAKER_00 26:40

I always wanted to live by the beach. So I sell the RV, I end up living two blocks from the beach, and I'm loving life. Like I'm like so happy, yeah, and I'm so content, and I'm like, I'm finally living in alignment with me and my vision, and you know, um, my soul really wanted to travel. And I was like, Lorelyn, if you get an animal, you're not gonna be able to travel. And that's the moment, Jenica, that I realized I was too comfortable. I had gotten too comfortable. And I had friends who were living the nomadic lifestyle, and I was like fantasizing, living through them, tell me your stories, you know. And I just thought, what would it look like if I took everything that I spend in a month to live here? What would it look like if I took that and traveled? And so I started to interview different people who were already living the lifestyle that I wanted to live. And I made the decision because I was like, if I don't do this now, when am I gonna do it? I sold everything that I owned, or donated it, or gifted it to somebody, right? And I got down to an international size carry-on, and I set off on a year of travel, and my first stop was Colombia, and Jenica, as we were driving flying over the beautiful mountains of Colombia, and I could barely see it out the window because I was sitting in an aisle seat, and the two women next to me didn't speak English, and my Spanish was really rough. And the woman saw my expression of looking out the window, and she tapped her friend and asked her friend to sit back in the seat so that I could have a clear view. And I saw these beautiful mountain caps and this all the greenery in Colombia, like it just it captured my soul, and I immediately started crying. And in my head, when the plane landed, I said to myself, You effing did it. You effing did it. You are making your dreams a reality, and you are out here doing this, and I was having this really like celebratory moment, and then two seconds later, the ego showed up. Are you a one and done? This is it, you're just gonna do Columbia and it's over. Like it already started the self-doubt, and I was like, ouch!

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Like all those little narratives, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

All those little narratives, and so Colombia was my first place I landed. So from Colombia, I went to Panama. And Panama Panama, yeah. I went I went to a tribal gathering um in Panama where these indigenous tribes from all over the globe came, and I got to sit with tribal members from all over the world. And again, the communication was a challenge, but it wasn't, right? It was like when you really set the intention to try to understand where somebody else is coming from and really have curiosity about what are they saying, what are they here to share. I found it much easier to understand, even though there were, you know, communication barriers. And it deeply touched me. The wisdom that they had, the love for the planet, that they feel like they're guardians to protect our natural resources. It really did change my life. After that experience, I still stayed in um Panama and I went to Boca del Toro, um, which the only way to get there is either by boat or plane. Um, and I went, showed up at the airport, and there was this eight-seater plane, including the pilots. And I was like, oh, this is gonna be. Wow, okay. What do I do? Yeah. And I got on this tiny little plane where you feel everything. And but when we got up and over in the view of Panama, I thought that Colombia was beautiful. Well, the view from Panama above the mountains, the crystal clear blue water, I was just in awe of nature and the beauty. And Belle del Um Boca del Toro is very remote. And the only way that you get from where you're staying to the island is by boat. And you know, you see on these magazines, right? Like this little hut in over the water, and you think, oh my gosh, I would love to be there. And that was me the first day, but the second day it was like, oh my gosh, I heated here. Like and uh so yeah, Panama was very interesting and a wonderful experience. Um and and then from there I went to um to Europe. I went over to Europe and I did London, which I fell in love with London. I did actually, I took sound healing while I was in London. I got certified in sound healing while I was there. I went to all over England. I went to um uh Cornwall and um Glastonbury, and then I flew over to Ireland, and then I flew to Paris and then back to London. And yeah, I feel very, very blessed. And I got to like finally be in alignment with who I said I was and what I said I wanted to do, and that was the biggest relief out of all. It was like I said I wanted to travel, I said I wanted to see the world, and um and actually doing it and showing myself, yeah, I'm I'm gonna honor I'm gonna honor you by doing these things. Most of the people that I met along the way were were very helpful. And it it did teach me that I can take care of myself, I can have my own back, I can advocate for myself. And it doesn't matter what, you know, it's hard, especially in our in society, to really stand in that. It takes me a lot of mental work sometimes to keep on that path of honoring myself and not being pulled into the this or that of it of someone else.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

I I'm curious as to like, you know, the with the language barriers and everything, and with you kind of like being an expert in communication and kind of studying that and spending so much of your life on that. What was some of the things that you kind of like took away from, you know, not being able to communicate? What did it teach you about communication?

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I realized that communication, you know, I always thought it was just on our words, right? Because for me, words had consequences. So I focused a lot on words. And during my time of developing my system and doing all those things, I worked with a lot with a visually impaired community. And when I work with people who have visual um things to overcome, uh, I realized, oh my goodness, I need to focus on words, right? Words, because for them, they can't, they don't, they can't see what we're seeing. So I have to give them cues from the words that we

Nonverbal Truth And Speaking The Unsaid

SPEAKER_00 33:35

use because each communication style has a specific set of vocabulary that they use. So I was focused on that. Now, when I was traveling, I was like, okay, words don't matter because nobody's speaking the language that I'm speaking. And I had the biggest aha moment. Ironically, with somebody who did, they were from England, they were English, and um and I had the biggest aha moment because what I learned was that not all communication is words or being able to see or being able to understand. The most important communication is the non-verbal communication, it's about what we don't say. And I had this specific thing where I met a male friend we had met years ago online, and I happened to be in the country that he was living in, so we decided that we were gonna meet up and get coffee. I really enjoyed his company. There were some things that he was doing that I didn't appreciate, and I didn't say anything because I was like, Well, he's not my partner, and I'm just meeting him. And then I realized that he could pick up. Now, have you ever walked into a room and you could feel the tension, Jenica? Like you feel it, you're like, oh, right? Yeah, those are the unspoken words. So he taught me that he heard my unspoken words, and I realized that I justified not actually speaking my truth by saying he it didn't matter because he's not, I'm not relationship, it didn't matter because I'm leaving the country. And no, I abandoned myself in those moments. So it is about speaking the unspoken, and it goes back to what we were both talking about earlier about the consequence of it, right? Now, for me, I justified not speaking my truth to him because I didn't want to waste my energy, right? But if I were really gonna honor who I am, and because of the things that I said, like he's not my significant other, I am leaving the country. There was nothing for me to lose than if I really spoke my truth, right? And so I learned that from traveling that the most important things is the things that we choose not to say that should be said because people feel it.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

How can a person who maybe may not be so in tune with that? How can they pick up on those kind of things? Like, how can they be more intuitive in that sense?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Yeah, I would say um it's not just about the leaning in, it's not about the actual verbal, it's the energy that you feel. Have you ever just like I said, you walked into a room and you just feel the tension, you know that something's not being said, right? Have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and you feel there's an uneasiness there, or you're feeling like intuitively that something's off, right? And so it's about really it's a skill set, you know. People say communication is a soft skill, and I say it's as it's a necessary skill. Communication is a necessary skill and that we all need it. Wars are created on words first, right? So I tell people it's about honing the skill. It's for me, it was like, oh, I had to be like, oh, I felt that in myself. I felt that shift, that uneasiness, or I felt, oh, I want to be on defense. And so now when I feel those things for me, I will like if we you and I were talking, I would say, hey Jenica, um, I'm just wondering, you know, I'm or I'm just wondering if there's something off, right? It could be me, it might just be me, but I'm feeling that there's something off. Could could we I'm can we get curious about that? Can we explore that? Right. So I always take it from the place of curiosity, and this is how it's landing for me. For me, this kind of feels off, you know, is there something that I'm missing? You know, and then I ask for that clarity. Now, that person, I'm not responsible for them, right? They could say no, nothing's off, but but something's off, right? They don't they don't want to have the uncomfortable conversation, yeah. And it's about not pressing somebody, it's about meeting somebody where they are in the moment and being like, okay, just wanted to check in because now I've done my due diligence. What I've learned is my personal core values need to be in alignment with whoever I choose as a partner, recognizing that every person that's in our life is here to teach us something. Some experiences are less pleasant than others, right? So if I look at this and I walk away and I say, okay, what I learned from Jenica today during our time together, right? It's like, how do I identify that every single person is somebody who's teaching me something? What what if I started to look at things from that curiosity instead? And oh, this person's teaching me that maybe I negotiated my my values, or this person's teaching showed me a new way to look at something, right? A new perspective on something that I hadn't seen before.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

I also really liked how earlier you said like that I don't need it, because I think a lot of people when they get into relationships, they get into it from a vulnerable place. And so when you go into a relationship needing something, then you are you start allowing for unhealthy kind of patterns to be to be brought into the relationship. Whereas as opposed to it's like you know yourself, you know exactly what you are, who you are, what you need, what you want, and then you allow the other person to come in and kind of seamlessly fit into that. You know, not there's no relationship that is seamless, but rather that that is open to kind of like hearing you out, and you have the space to be able to hear them out and sort of it be more balanced. Because that that word need, I think sometimes can be very dangerous for people.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yes, yeah, I agree, and it is true. We, you know, for me, right, going back to my childhood, I needed to play small to say safe, right? And so that was the choices that I made. So when we do come place from a place of need, it opens up negotiation, right? And we, uh, the individual who needs something is the one who's doing the negotiation. I accept whether I'm going to be in this relationship because I believe that it's going to give me the financial security that I need, right? Over I'm going to stick to myself. So now that I know that I can take care of myself, uh, that I might 100% more happier than any relationship has ever provided me, being on my own, uh, I don't have the need anymore. So it's easier for me not to negotiate in ways that don't serve me.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Can you tell us? Um, and this is going to be like one of my final questions too, about like the system, the model that you have come up with in terms of like the communication style.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

So, as you as we've been talking about, communication in my world had high consequences, and I've always been obsessed with human behavior. And, you know, there are some great assessments and tools out there that were being used, but what I noticed was that they taught me a lot about myself, but they didn't really teach me how to interact with others. So I took all that great science that's out there and the philosophies, and I reverse-engineered it. And what I did was I found that there's a way to

The CHAT Communication Styles Framework

SPEAKER_00 40:45

identify each other's communication style so that I can meet you where you are. Now, this came out of my childhood. The aha moment for this, Jenica, is I was writing my book, and as I was writing my book, I was going through all my male relationships, all of them, and I started to identify that there was a pattern, right? You talk about a pattern, and I would identify these men and recognize the pattern, and then I realized, oh my gosh, all these men are my father.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Every single one of them had my dad's communication style, every single one of them. So I basically was beating my head, trying to recreate my relationship with my dad to work out the issues that we had. Wow. Through creating the same scenario over and over again. And it completely blew my mind. And that's when I realized how powerful the um communication system that I created actually was.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Can you elaborate a little bit more on the system? Like what is it called? How does it work?

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Sure. So the system's called the chat communication system. It's a methodology of where I tell people we have four communication styles. Um, you are all four communication styles within you already. So we have what I call our most favorite one. This is where we love this communication style when we are primary and secondary communication style. When we're talking to somebody who has the same or inverted, they just get us. It's easy conversation, right? We just really enjoy being around them. They get us, we feel uplifted, right? The whole nine yards. Then we have what I call is the pivot. So the third one is called considered the pivot. And this is um where if action was the third one, sometimes you'd want to jump into action, and sometimes you want to sit on the couch and eat bon bonds, right? So we pivot it, we come in and out of it. And then our last one, which is what I call the opportunity, and I call it our biggest opportunity because it's usually where we cut people off. And so this is the one that we least we don't like the most, we least like it because it takes us a lot of energy to be in the presence of somebody because they speak the language that drains us, right? And I call it the opportunity because if we can learn where they're coming from and what they mean, it's not personal anymore. We can zoom out, right? And um, so if you think in business, if you cut off 25% of your business, that's a lot, right? Uh, if you you could be missing out on the next potential partnership, the next you know, big gig, the you know, maybe if you're looking for love, your lover, new best friend, right? And so we cut people out of our life just because it makes us uncomfortable. So um we have all four how your communication style stacks up creates your specific language, okay? So we have the creative communication style, just a really like quick overview. The communic creative communication style, these are people that see outside of the box and they drive people crazy because they ask a lot of why questions. Why, why, why, why, why, right? And um, they're big picture, they think they're more introverted, and you know, they're the people who leave a meeting, come back to the next meeting, and want to talk about something that happened in the last meeting. Well, they need a time to think about it. They, you know, they're like that popcorn. You know, you pop popcorn and it's like fast and furious. take it off the heat and like a few minutes later goes pop that's the creatives they have to they have to think about everything before they can like really yeah um come up with solutions and then we have the harmony communication style which i kind of already touched base on right they're more about they love love they yeah they want us all to get along they often will for fall on the sword they will take the blame they will right in order to keep the peace because that's what makes them feel safe so that's the harmony communication style and then we have the action communication style these are the movers and takers these are the people who want to like you know they're like well you I often hear them say you know it's easier to ask for forgiveness right like they just want to jump in and get things done do it and yeah and in business world in business world that could be frustrating because if you're trying to get something done for the action communication style if it's not on fire it's not important. When it's important to them it's already on fire right so you can see how it could upset the other communication styles right and so it's it's always and then we have the last one which is the template communication style. And these are the people that take things quite literally they see things in black and white they they really value and respect um rules and regulations they have a need for knowing what to expect so throwing a surprise into them is like rocking their incomplete world and they like us to be more professional.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

What about you know those communicators that are very solutions oriented so say you're talking about an issue that you had at work and like instead of just simply being there for you and being like I hear you I'm here for you validate it rather than like oh well you can do this and you can do that and you know what about this? Have you tried this like those kind of people?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Yes so it's interesting um go back to the telenovelas those are a combination of harmony and action so the dramatic the the you know the the theoretical part of it is the action communication style so that's like if if telenovelas or the Korean um uh aspect the you know shows would fit into it probably be action uh harmony action right and then creative and then template would be that communication style right because the rules and regulations like that doesn't make good TV right like so that's their opportunity okay for this specific one that you're asking about when we when we want somebody to hear us but then they give us solutions they're either one of two types and you can tell by how they're giving them right like um if they say things like you could have done this or you should have done that it is the template communication style. Template communication styles will often give feedback and opinions that were not asked for and sometimes that gets them in trouble because not everybody wants to hear that opinion especially when it comes with what we considered as judgy words of could have and should have right so templates find themselves in hot water sometimes because they offer unsolicited opinions. The second type of communication style that could be doing that is the action communication style because they want to help and so they rapid fire uh like 10 other things that you you know you the 10 other possibilities right yeah so they they want to be you know they want to help and they don't realize that sometimes that's overwhelming right and they rapid fire all these things uh and their ideas that weren't even well thought out but they're just spinning them out right so both of them it's not personal both of them are trying to help you in a way that fits their communication style now if I was talking to an action person I would ramp I would rapid fire a bunch of solutions right because I know that's how they would hear me. Now if I try to be like that's nice how do you feel about that they would you know like I'm totally irritated right in that moment quite wasting my time right get to the point they want you to get to the point if I said to a template communication style that was sharing that with me oh you know but how did that make you feel they would be irritated they'd be like that's small talk I don't want to talk small talk I'm in pro I need to feel safe and secure and I need solutions in order to do that. Right. And then the creative communication style how they would show up in that scenario is they would only offer information if they thought about it. So you might share with a creative and they might listen to you and then they might circle back later on and be like hey did you think about this or that because what they did was they took your problem and they ran it through their process and they ran it in all different directions to see all the different solutions, right? And this takes time for them to marinate and to really digest what you said and then they come back and offer some things later on.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

The undertones the nuances the facial expressions the body language all of those things that are are that go completely missing when we are communicating online via email via text message you know um sending our CV to a company how can we communicate without those little nuances?

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Okay. So it's very interesting that you say that um I always tell people look at when somebody communicates with you look at the words that they're using. Are they using words that are all about harmony and getting along are they asking you first how are you doing and quoting

Email And CV Formula That Works

SPEAKER_00 49:00

something personal before they move into the business is it just hi how are you this is what I need right that's a template right if they just give you a bullet point that's action. Action is they don't they prefer to talk on the phone and catch you in a moment they don't really like to send emails receive emails um in fact if they receive an email that's too long they say I don't have time for this they click on it hit like unread and save it it goes into like you know the graveyard with all the other unread emails that were too long. And so it's like you can look for these clues in how people are sending you text messages. Do they prefer phone calls? Do they send you emails? Look at the emails for the clues are they talking big picture? Are they very detail oriented? Are they more connection oriented? Are they straight to the point? And then I would respond in the light I would mirror the behavior right so if you're somebody who wants to give a big long let nope we're we're just gonna answer the question and send it back. Now when sending your CV, this is very interesting and this is a method that I teach in my classes but I'll share it with your listeners today is there's a formula. So it's a way that we communicate to each of the communication styles. So we pick up um you start off with action so the subject line so when you don't know who's receiving your material you have to speak to all four communication styles. So the subject line is for the action communication style this is if I had to sum up in one sentence what is in this email it's right here right the other thing is is it also makes it searchable. So if they want to go back and look for you later it's easy to search. So though that's that then inside we want to give them the big picture one sentence of the big picture right and closed is my CD I'm applying for this position. That is the big picture. And then we want to go move into harmony and then the harmony is I see that where your company values align with my personal values and I feel like this would be a good match okay and then the last one is all the details because then we move into template and the template if we give all the details attached is my C V this is da da da we would give all of any details that needed to be met. And the reason that we do that is the template communication style is the only communication style that will read every single thing that you wrote before they decide whether they want to answer you or not.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Interesting yeah because they're they're in need of that safety like they're gonna look at every detail because they want to make sure that they're in a safe and you know consistent responsible kind of communication.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Yes and they're gonna click all the links and they're gonna do all the things and they're gonna go to your social media and they're gonna see how your behavior is there and does it line up with what you say in your CV and um they're gonna do all the research and they're gonna make sure that you're a safe bet before they bring you into your organization. And by the way most people who are in human resources do lead not all but most people lead with the template communication style. Interesting so yeah and then there are some people that vet it by there's um a panel of people who vet it so what if I only gear it towards one person well now there's three other people who don't have that exact same communication style and I'm not they're not resonating with me at all. So that's why I say when you don't know who your audience is you follow the formula so that who no matter who's reading it can relate to it.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

Yeah. Wow this is this is so like so informational it's so useful you know your story like where you are today and the way that you understand and dissect communication it really kind of it it it all makes sense kind of with the flow of your own life and your own experiences and stuff. So yeah it's it's it's so powerful honestly it's been so fantastic speaking to you today. I feel inspired I feel like yeah just such great content today.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

So yeah thank you thanks so much oh I'm so grateful for the opportunity I really I mean you and I could probably sit in here for another few hours and not not be lost for words. Um it has been a really great opportunity and I'm so grateful that I got to meet you and I love the work that you're doing in the world and you're really making an impact and I appreciate uh I appreciate you on many levels.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help support the show please follow and subscribe you can rate and review your feedback on any of our platforms listed in the description I'd like to recognize our guests who are vulnerable and open to share their life experiences with us. Thank you for showing us we're human also a thank you to our team who worked so hard behind the scenes to make it happen. Lucas theory Stefan Menzel The show would be nothing without you I'm Jennifer the host and writer of the show and you're listening to Multispective