00:00:03 - INTRODUCTION
This is the Your Sports Resource podcast, where each week you'll learn actionable strategies that you can implement so the operations of your club support your coaching staff and the direction of your organization. We are committed to excellence in youth sports leadership. Let's get started.
(00:00:26) RENATA
Hello everybody and welcome to the Your Sports Resource podcast. I am Renata Porter and I am really excited today to have Abbie Fish from Swim Like A. Fish on our podcast. Now Abbie started Swim Like A. Fish in 2019 after 25 years of success in competitive swimming and 15+ years of elite swim coaching. During their swimming career, Abbie was a six-time Olympic trial qualifier. SEC finalist and NCAA qualifier and a two-time USA junior national champion.
00:01:02
On top of that, Abbie started coaching as they were studying for their master's degree and still competing. Abbie is a University of Georgia Double Dawg where they swam and graduated with their MS and BS degrees in Exercise Science. It was a very natural transition for them from being the one in the water to the one standing on deck. All right, welcome Abbie. We're really happy to have you here.
(00:01:30) ABBIE
Thank you so much for having me. I mean, really, I should say us on this podcast today.
(00:01:37) RENATA
For those of you who are just listening to the audio, Abbie's cat is visiting with us as we are recording. So, all right, so let's just start off with why did you start Swim Like A. Fish. And throughout the years, what have you learned and how has your business elevated and changed?
(00:01:55) ABBIE
Yeah, so I mean, the short version to a really long story is I felt like there wasn't enough visual feedback for swimmers. So how do we get them to learn through video content and different mediums than just auditory? Because I noticed with myself when I saw my strokes on video or got into the weeds of any sort of testing data, my swimming elevated.
00:02:28
And so, I felt like I worked at USA Swimming for like a brief stint internship in 2012. And during that, actually 2014, I did that for the national team athletes. And I was kind of like, why are we not doing this for all levels of athlete? Because I think it just takes whoever the athlete is, it meets them where they're at and bumps them up a level. So big goal, big goal.
00:02:55
Not sure like how to do it. And I came to a crossroads in 2019 where I had a lot of great experience, but never had the thought of like, I want to run my own business. Like I don't have a business background. And so, as punny and kind of lame this may sound, like my brain was like sink or swim. Like you either got to try it or not. Yeah.
(00:03:21) RENATA
Good, good. I think I like the idea of like bringing that to the younger swimmers because I think a lot of times when we're doing instruction on deck they in their head they're going but I am doing that. I am doing that right so them get being able to see it on video I bet you that the training or the embedding of the technique happens much quicker.
(00:03:47) ABBIE
It does and it takes out like any ambiguity, right? Because I mean, some of the best coaches that are mentors to me are like, you should never demonstrate wrong. But there's a lot of times with what you're demonstrating, how that can be left up to interpretation to the athlete or the delivery is interpreted differently. So if you have something that you can like, you know, essentially say, no, do you see this?
00:04:12
There's not much left to argue around or discuss. It's like, yes, I do. Okay, well, let's talk about the solution. So I feel like it's just definitely more solution based and it's quicker to get things done than just the typical, put your palm to the ground, like, kick more, you know, that type of stuff.
(00:04:35) RENATA
So how has the business changed since you first started and where are you at now and how are you doing with clients and where are you located?
(00:04:44) ABBIE
Yeah. So I'm based in Louisville, Kentucky. I actually launched this when I was living in two places. I was living down in the Keys for a long time because I worked for the race club and then I moved up to Louisville right before COVID hit. And then when COVID happened, it was kind of like, well, I guess we're here. And so I got a club coaching job at about the same time. And so I kind of burrowed in and, you know, I think it's four or five years later, we're still in Louisville.
00:05:11
Which I do have some family roots. I went to high school here, so there's some familiarity in the area. And so that's helpful as far as pool space and knowing and like, you know, knowing the coaches and stuff like that. But with that, yeah, terrible time to launch a business six months prior to COVID. Like, did not, no one foresaw it, right? So yeah, for me, it was like a passion project, you know, trying to make some money on the side, like.
00:05:38
And then just the goal of growing, it was like, it was an ambiguous goal. It was like, just grow and see if this can become a thing. And we had to morph. We had to shift what we offered. We had to do more dry land stuff during COVID. But I mean, quite honestly, I was bored during COVID and I have a cat, you know, that's, you know, that's my primary roommate. So I was like, just on my computer all the time. I wrote blogs, I made videos, I was live streaming like, you name it.
00:06:08
I just like had to create consistency for myself. And like with that, my business like grew sixfold. It was just like overnight because everyone was online. Yeah. So then post-COVID, I had to decide out of all these new directions, like a dry land direction, strength and conditioning, virtual coaching, like where do I want to spend my time and like, what do I want to develop more?
00:06:34
And that's what's been going on the last two years. I've been like a little less in here, a little bit more in there, hire someone to do this. So that way I can be more where I want to be and not be running around chaotically in my head every day trying to get things done.
(00:06:49) RENATA
Yeah. So how do you, so do you work with teams and coaches, or do individual members or swimmers and families come to you? How does it work?
(00:07:02) ABBIE
Yeah, so both. I'm contracted through some teams, club teams, and sometimes, you know, the funding comes from like USA Swimming, the LSC, or even like internally, they will figure out how to get costs covered to have me come out or be a resource or do a webinar, something of that nature. And then individual clients email DM me all the time. So I just got back from the pool this morning and I had a new client that drove up from Nashville. He's nine. He's with his mom.
00:07:32
They saw some stuff on Instagram. He doesn't feel like his technique is improving. He's grown a ton over like the last year. So we did video analysis and we did a swim lesson. And then I had an adult master swimmer who's like just really trying to get after it at Masters Nationals in June. And I love him and he's a local guy. So I don't have like a cap on where I work with. I'm really good with age group kids.
00:07:58
Like I always thought I wanted the elite high-level performance, the Olympians, and the, you know, the big names, but I think my personality comes out when I'm around like a younger kid. And so it's not as cutthroat and it's not so much like, you know, kind of keep them on a path. It's like you're creating a brand-new path and it's fun.
(00:08:18) RENATA
Right. Well, I can see how coaches too can like really incorporate this into their programming, you know, and really work towards, you know, hey, if one of my kids is just like, they've got the potential and they can see it in them, but they're not grasping the skill part of it to like make that refinement to update their performance.
00:08:44
Like I can really see how coaches can just implement this into their program to really help elevate their swimmers that they know that like there's something there and if they just tweak a few things that you know they could get them to the next level of their performance. I can see how that could really remove some burden I think I guess maybe that's not the right terminology maybe you'd word it word it a bit differently but remove some of that stress or burden on the coach.
(00:09:14) ABBIE
Yeah. And that's, it was kind of interesting because prior to me launching this, I worked for a lot of great programs and great teams. But when you first start doing the independent thing, you very quickly understand who's the open-minded coach and who's not. Cause there's like the ones that are willing to change. They like innovation. They want to push further. And then there's also the ones that are like what I do works. See you later.
00:09:39
And so I think for the longest time, I stressed out about that kind of dichotomy and felt like I needed to like speak my worth, you know, be who I said I was. And it was just this tightrope that I was walking all the time. And it was exhausting because I was focusing on the wrong people, right? Like I was trying to turn the heads of the ones whose heads are not gonna turn. And instead, I worked really well with a lot of teams as far as being an outside resource.
00:10:08
I come in, I help their kids, which in then turns helps their program. Like it's a nice circle, which a lot of other countries and nations do. It's just not the norm here in the US. So over at the state meet, there's a girl I've been working with for like three years now. She's really good. But she's the type of kid that's really good when she wants to be really good. So like the stars have to align. And we've worked through a lot of the mental side of things along with the technical stuff and she wasn't supposed to win this event, but she put her mind to it and she won it. And I was standing behind the podium and she came up, she's like, did you see that? Did you see that?
00:10:51
And I always make sure they talk to their coach first before anybody comes up to me. And I'm like, yeah, I did. And her coach comes walking by and she thanked me and she was like, you should give the medal. And I'm like, no, it's your kid. The medal is yours. So I got to see this whole moment where it was like, she got to put the medal on the kid so happy. And I'm just sitting there knowing that I got to play a small role and all of that is the best feeling.
(00:11:16) RENATA
Yeah, that's amazing. I love what you were saying though about the coaches being open to it and open to innovation. I, you know, as you would imagine, I run into the same thing. I have a lot of coaches that don't want to bar me because they feel like I'm going to come in and tell them what to do. And in a way, I guess I am, but it's more of like an advisor to work with for improvement of the organization and their leadership skills because let's face it, the business is very different today than it was when we were coming up.
00:11:47
You know, a lot of coaches learned via osmosis from the head coach and now head coaches have to put time into their coaches. It is expected from staff now. They want, if you want me to provide value, I need to know that I'm valued, right? So I think the younger head coaches are really aware that how, I guess people are in their work in the workplace all across the board is very is very different than when we were coming up.
00:12:22
So a lot of the younger coaches are a lot more open to having support from the outside to make them a more effective and efficient leader because it's not only about how you coach your swimmers, it is about how you lead in the business. And I love how you brought up innovation and utilizing other tools. So, what would you say to these coaches that are a little apprehensive about bringing people in and utilizing sources such as yourself?
(00:12:58) ABBIE
I think the biggest thing is making sure that you and the person that you're potentially going to work with are aligned in the vision that you want for your program. And so, you know, whatever that is, like you want a big club team, you need more numbers, you need better organization, you know, staff, et cetera. I think the goals have to be aligned because at the end of the day, when you work with people, it's relationship-based.
00:13:25
And so there's bound to potentially be miscommunication issues. But if you know that you're going towards the same uniform goal, like I want to get this kid to the level that you want to have this kid at, then we're all working for the same thing. It takes out any of that like gray area fog, which I think causes a lot of hesitation. So there's a trust that has to be established, but I think the trust can continually be built upon as you know, slowly integrate things.
00:13:56
Cause I feel like even as a coach, I was talking, I had coffee with another coach who's retired yesterday and he was saying, you know, back in the 1990s, I went to my first ASCA, la la la. And he was like, and I left with my head spinning. And I like, I often do find that when life, you know, you're, you're putting these situations that are like so hyper-focused on swimming that you leave feeling like you got to flip the whole thing upside down to create what you're looking to do.
00:14:26
And a lot of times it's not true. You've got to kind of tweak some things first and then see what happens before you try to like implement video analysis every Wednesday at practice kind of thing. So small steps and then just finding the person that feels like the right fit for your program is the best thing for your program.
(00:14:47) RENATA
Yeah. So do you mind, since you brought it up, do you mind if I flip over to your coach mode for a second? Put your coach hat on. What do you feel like are the biggest hurdles for coaches, right now?
(00:15:04) ABBIE
I think a lot of the way businesses are run through club teams is numbers-based and numbers-based have a limit based on the size of the facility and how much time the water time they have. And so I think knowing that you've got to pack lanes to really get paid or pay other people to do their jobs inherently puts a lot of stress on these small, they're all small businesses to function and function well and provide, like you said, continuing education opportunities, advising, you know, like benefits, the whole nine yards.
00:15:40
Because I do think most coaches look at coaching now as a career and there are steps to move up with. And just like you'd want to be, you know, given a raise or given a new title or move up, the same thing happens in coaching now. And I don't know if it's done well based off of the fact that it's all on the amount of swimmers you can put in a pool.
(00:16:03) RENATA
Yeah. Or, you know, a lot of clubs are really leaning heavy on learn-to-swim programs. They are a boon financially for organizations and a lot of them are, and this really messes me up with coaches, but they're offering developmental programs. They're calling them developmental and I call them recreational because, in my mind, old-school developmental is eight and under, right?
00:16:25
So when they say developmental, I get really messed up. But essentially what they're doing is they're doing a track for the families from littles all the way to older children who really just enjoy swimming but don't want the pressure of the competitive sport and those kind of programs really help. But you touched on a really good point that, you know, coaches, I think in Olympic sports, a lot of these coaches are shifting to where these are their full-time jobs.
00:16:58
These are their roles. They're not like the volunteer dad that's coaching football after school and stuff like that. And what's really interesting is that I find or I feel that the clubs aren't really kind of keeping pace with that. In the fact that they don't spend time developing their staff. And when you develop staff, like they're more engaged in your program, they're more engaged in your swimmers, they're like, they can only add benefit to your organization, right?
00:17:32
So I really wish that clubs would keep pace with, cause still a lot of the boards and I would even say sometimes even the coaches, not always, but they just, ah, it's just some kids, youth program and it's like, no, this is a businessman. This is a full-on business with full-on staff and they want a good culture. They want to be valued. They want to be trained. They want to stay in this atmosphere for a long time. And I think that's one of the reasons why coaches get fried.
00:18:03
They get burned out because the the board doesn't always understand the amount of hours that they put in they just they just see deck time and they don't think about it all the other pieces of work or like this season we're going through right now where you have what feels like almost two months straight of just meet after meet after meet after meet.
00:18:24
And these guys got you know these men and women are working I don't know they're working seven days straight and they're not spending time with their own families during this period you know so I really feel like I wish that the business side of the club would keep up with the fact that the coaches want to make this their career, or at least your full-time coaches want to make this their career, right?
(00:18:50) ABBIE
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's always been seen, you know, from the perspective of if you really wanted the stable study job, you go into collegiate coaching because you've got an institution backing you with an HR department. Like you got more marketing, you know, things, but then you go into the coach-owned board run, you know, organization run style clubs and it's, it, they're all different. They all have their own sets of pros and cons, like which direction you go. And so I feel like it's always been a hierarchy to coaching. Like if you're a club coach, there's great club coaches, and thank God for them, right?
00:19:26
Like, cause they put in the hours you're describing and they do the thing. But a lot of times it isn't great atmosphere. It isn't great work-life balance. Like it's not, it's the job that's always been known as a grind and it's still heavily like, like you're rewarded and seen as like, like, you know this being on a pedestal if you're still doing that and it's kind of like by the same time you got all these Millennials and Gen Z's running around that are like, you know, I want a limited time off I want you know, I want to travel and it's like it they it just they don't match totally.
(00:20:06) RENATA
Yeah, no they don't and people rightfully so want to be able to spend time with their family. I mean I you know just like I hate comparing these two and I'm not really comparing these but like a lot of coaches end up in divorce. I was going to compare it to police and firefighters and all that and that's probably not a very fair assessment. But I think that you know the amount of family time that they miss which is similar to those professions you know same with the medical profession.
00:20:33
Is that it actually, I think it kind of crushes the soul a bit for an individual to constantly be giving up their own family and their own personal life. So I just wish that clubs would kind of recognize this and treat these positions as real full-time jobs that they actually are. I mean, they know common sense-wise, like I know they're on payroll. I know they're on a contract, but still like the belief is that it's just a, you know, it's just a kids sports team and it feels very flippant and I wish that it wasn't.
00:21:06
So what do you, how do you see your business evolving and changing over the next year? Do you have anything new and fun coming out?
(00:21:18) ABBIE
Yeah, so we, as I said, like it's kind of shifted and changed like post-COVID. And so last year was the first year like start to finish that didn't really have like a big COVID flare going on, not just in the US, but you know, kind of around the world. So more places were open, traveling was kind of back to normal. That I felt like it was good for me to finally see how many doors and opportunities may come towards us. And so we were in 16 swim camps last year.
00:21:48
And I never really thought about us as being a swim camp company, you know? Like, yeah, I just, we've done camps in the past, but to that magnitude, no. And so once I sat down and did, you know, the 2023 kind of recap and looking through what we have accomplished, I'm like, okay, that's great. You know, money-wise, great. Also, amount of swimmers you can affect, great. But amount of time on the road, like going into the work-life balance and you know, having to be in different time zones and out of your own element.
00:22:21
I was like, I personally don't feel like that's sustainable for the next 10 years of my life. Um, so I went to the drawing board and I was like, you know, what can we do to still affect people? Well, offer these opportunities, um, but doom in Kentucky. And so that's what I did. I was like, you know what, we're going to start doing camps here in Louisville because people want to go to swim camps. Um, and we've done two and they've gone really well.
(00:22:50) RENATA
Beautiful. And you market them out to the clubs to come in or yeah.
(00:22:56) ABBIE
Yeah, the clubs, mainly for the local kids here. I just put them out on my email newsletter and on social media. But yeah, we've been pulling people. The first camp we ever did, I had someone fly from Minnesota and I was kind of like, this is a, it's a pinch me moment that someone wants to like go that far. Like I have a lot of clients, like the Nashville kid that just came that they drive and you know, I had a Canadian client come down quite a few times. They drive 18 hours. It's just.
00:23:25
But I don't get like caught up in that, you know, it's just like a swimmer in a pool. But when I finally like big picture zone out and I look at what's going on, I'm like, that's really cool. Like that's really, really cool. So yeah, I've been super proud of it. And I'm just trying to figure out unique ways to also like stay balanced myself, give to the sport for a long time, but not give up so much of me. Cause I kind of felt like I got a little lost in things last year that you know, I stay grounded because I'm a better coach when I'm also grounded too.
(00:23:59) RENATA
Yeah, it's really hard. I found for me, especially in like 2022, I felt like I was chasing business really hard. And I felt like I really got away from what I wanted to do and what I thought we should be doing. So I kind of did the same thing. I took an audit and I went, okay, this is really not where I want to go. And I'll be honest with you, the last six months, business has been a little slow but I have not veered off of this is what we do, right? And I know that things will come back around.
00:24:35
So I think that's, you know, that's a really good perspective for you as a business owner. And those of you who are actually, you know, maybe running their own clubs or their own businesses that are swim adjacent like us, you know, that's something to really keep in mind when running a business.
00:24:53
It's really easy to get caught up in you know, the bananas on social media of you got to do this and you got to do that. And it's really easy to get pulled in to go, oh, I could offer that. I could offer something similar to that. And no, just stick to your skills. Stick to your passion and what you love and the business will come. The business will absolutely come.
(00:25:17) ABBIE
Yeah, I do find like business a cycle and I feel like if you're in it for the long haul, like you do know that this is going to be what you end up doing. It's easier to not be on that roller coaster of like, hey, we're doing really well. Things are going really well on the internet, all of that to like the crash of the algorithm. And then all of a sudden, like your ego is hurt. And then you're dealing with like that being intertwined with your own identity.
00:25:44
Yeah, because I do I do feel like this year I started off this year purposely slow. I was like, I need to need to find my bearings, get my feet down. And I've been really happy about that because I feel more clear up top, like I'm getting to things sooner and it may not be, you know, something that exchanges for income, but it's just it's important. It's like that relationship.
00:26:09
It's that connection. It's the piece that may lead to something in the future. The building stuff. So yeah, I've been proud of myself because I'm a go-getter. I'm like, I'll hustle all day long like that is how I trained. So learning how to pull back feels counterintuitive, but yeah.
(00:26:27) RENATA
Yeah, I do that. I have like Sundays. I'm like, I am not sitting at my desk. I am not sitting, but like, you know, it's in my head the whole day. I really should be. I really could just do, you know, but I'm like forcing myself to stay away and have my own personal time. So how can people reach out to you? How can they connect with you if they want to learn more about you, your business, getting involved?
(00:26:54) ABBIE
Yeah, probably the easiest way is through our website. It's swimlikeafish.org. It's spelled exactly like it sounds. And then we're pretty prominent on Instagram and Facebook. Those are one of our two largest channels. So if you're a Facebook user, it's just that @fishswimfaster. And then my Instagram handle is the theafish1. Yeah.
(00:27:22) RENATA
Okay, awesome, wonderful. All right, any parting words for us?
(00:27:28) ABBIE
No, I really appreciate the opportunity and I also appreciate what you're doing because I have worked in a lot of organizations that could have been run better. And so I think having resources for coaches to better the business flow, better the marketing flow, but all of that is important. Cause I was thinking about this earlier when you said, you know, coaches treat this more like it's their career.
00:27:56
And when I got my master's and then told my dad, who's a very like career-based guy, he was like, you got a masters to be a swim coach. And I was like, there is a, like a hierarchy to this. Like, you know, it's just not as clear cut. So yeah, I appreciate when you're like normalizing that these are businesses that are running and they need help, you know, that's yeah.
(00:28:25) RENATA
Yeah. We just need to get the industry to understand that we are there to support and we're not trying to, you know, take anybody's job. We're not there trying to push people around. Like we really want to supplement and support, you know, the swim industry. I think I told you and I've told the audience many times that I was very fortunate.
00:28:47
Swimming has given me so much in my professional career I attribute to swimming, you know, hard times and good times. And I feel very blessed to be able to be working in this industry and giving back to an industry that I feel like gave me a lot in my life, you know. So, all right. Well, thank you very much, Abbie, for being on the show. We really appreciate it.
00:29:14
And everybody please reach out to Abbie if you're looking for her assistance or just go on her site and read about what she can offer. All right. And that's swimlikeafish.org. Right. Yes. Okay. Cool. All right. So thank you for listening. Please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast so we can reach a bigger audience and help others such as yourself. And don't forget to visit our website yoursportsresource.com where you can find articles and tools as well as more info on how we can work together directly. And finally, remember what is common sense isn't always common practice. Put what you learn into action. Don't just be good. Be good at it, everyone. Thank you.