Squid #17 - The Quiet Voice

An episode spoken with a soft voice but with a strong message in which DAS argues that the quietest voice in the room can, in fact, be the loudest (which initially confuses Peter a lot)

Can a quiet voice be a powerful voice?
Can you mistake such quiet for weakness or mistake seniority?
Is it possible to balance the loud and the quiet?

Many questions are raised and, hopefully, addressed in this intriguing episode

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the squid of despair, unscripted musings on business life leadership, creativity, transformation, and all the myriad of other work life events that get in the way of good night's sleep. Hosted by David, Ealing Smith, and Peter Taylor. Hello, Peter, how are you? I'm good, good. And nice to see you today. It was a rare occurrence or Yes, yes. This is where we met face to face for lunch. It was very, very nice. And I was very surprised you didn't quiz me about what I'm going to bring up today. So that was I thought, well, he wouldn't tell me anyway. So you know, there are other things we could talk about. That wasn't tempted to give you what's known in the trade as a bum steer. So you went off and did a lot of wasted research? Oh, yeah. Well, you know, research at all. So that would have been a waste of time for you to waste my time. Yeah. Well, I had actually a few candidates for the topic today. And one of our listeners I've been speaking to said they, they actually would like to hear us talk about this topic. They probably didn't like the other topics I mentioned. But anyway, so this has got a quote from one of our listeners, not very good, then. So do I say the words? Go for it, go for it. So that's what is the word of the day. So Peter, the secret of the day to day is a topic which I'm going to call the power of the quiet voice. Now, I know that sounds like the holiday read that you took to your vacation. But and let me why you think about that. Let me perhaps just define that a little bit. And I'm happy to take wherever you want. But I've been thinking a bit recently about the pros and cons of the practice of working with what I call the quiet voice. So it's partially a leadership topic. It's partially effective, and an effectiveness topic. And it's partially a conjuring trick, actually. But I'd like to, I'd like to talk to you about that, really. And, and, and maybe perhaps, you know, let me let me stop teasing you. I mean, let me define a little bit what I mean by AI. And I'd like to look at this sort of inside out first, because I think the quiet voice is sort of a, it's a style thing. It's a perhaps a base identity. It's a way in which some people choose to approach their lives, or choose to approach their work. And as I said before, I think it's got pros and cons. It's sort of, it's manifested by sort of showing rather than telling, perhaps, listening rather than speaking, using your speaking with empathy, perhaps rather than speaking empathetically, that you'd like that and practice persuasion rather than prescription. So so it's not that little voice in my head, that goes, well, that little voice in the head, I know, happens a lot. And I really do think you should keep taking the tablets. But no, it's not that little voice in your head. And also, I think, as a style, you know, the quiet voice, in a corporate context can sometimes be seen as, as weakness and in decisiveness. And I think there are challenges with it, you know, at work and in, in life. But I think there are massive strengths associated with it as a practice. And actually, you know, there is another use of the quiet but you've heard the phrase, Peter, beware the quiet person in the room? No. Oh, okay. So there's, oh, I'm surprised. So sometimes there's, there's a, there's a, there's a thing that says, you know, when you're, when you're talking to a group of people who want it, beware the quiet person in the room. And I want to just reflect on that have a bit of fun with that later. So what do you think? What do you think about that as a topic? I'm trying to think of what I've got to say about it, but ya know, go for it, go for it. So I'm, I'm assuming culture is gonna come into this somewhere? Yeah, I think that it does come into it. But let me kick it off in so please. So you know, one of those one of those attributes are sort of working with the quiet voice, I think is that sharing rather than telling has an approach and if we're not doing it from a leadership perspective, I think sometimes that's called servant leadership. So that's a term we've used before, isn't it? And, you know, many, many famous leaders, of course, have adopted that technique. And I was just trying to think about, and actually I came up with the big names actually. So you know, join me in this list if you want Peter, but you know, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, you know, Mandela, mother, Teresa. Interesting. They're all spiritual. Not all spiritual is but there's a spiritual leadership's component to that. But I think that is a style characterized by You know, shepherds rather than hunters? Would? And and I think in business, you know, you see people practicing in this way? And I think it has, it has flavors to it. So I think it's about behaving ethically, it's about encouraging diversity of thought perhaps it's about creating a culture of trust. It's, um, selfish, very often, so often looking for leadership in others, would you? Could you relate to that as a leadership style? Are you? I think so I think so. I mean, I must admit, my mind is growing rapidly here. So well done. You really, you really got me on this one? Because nothing came to my mind when you start this. And I was thinking, this is therefore going to be a monologue from you. Not acceptable, clearly. But no. Yes, I think so. Alright, yeah, I got a few things. I think, you know, I can reflect on you know, you always got to go back to all my books. And one of my books, social project management was about actually it was talking about the power of connecting everybody through the kind of digital platform because it it balanced out, if you like, the dominant players that if you like, the louder voices, perhaps maybe so yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, I think that's, that's right. And I, and I think, you know, this topic, you know, may be interesting for people who practice working with a quiet voice, and perhaps, sometimes underestimate the power of working that way. It also might be interesting to people who have got people in their teams that have got a quiet voice and want to find ways in which they can contribute more proactively perhaps. So I think this is a you know, this is a buying and selling topic, actually, for people. Let me give you another practice definition. So I talk about servant leadership, because I think that is a that is a thing is a style which people bring to play sometimes. And I think it has strengths and weaknesses. There's, there's another, there's another definition of this. So when I talked about behaving with empathy, rather than behaving emphatically, I think actually, that brings to mind traits that are often associated with great women leaders. So you know, there's quite a debate about this about women in leadership. And, you know, I don't want to be stereotypical but, you know, women in leadership tend to bring those traits that are more associated with women rather than men like empathy, collaboration, perhaps emotional maturity. And, and that sort of leadership is about building relationships. It's about being inclusive, isn't it? Focused on personal growth. It's often Heller and holistic, holistic approach to decision making. I've seen that referred to in the literature as soft power, you know, it's persuasive. It's subtle. It all, by definition, all diplomats have soft power, you know, it's often understated so often attractive, it's often about planting seeds for long term outcomes, which are often more sustainable than the more perhaps more proactive, perhaps more, you know, the more classic old fashioned male type of leadership. So do want to get into that one beta female versus male leadership traits. Gosh, that's a minefield. But I you know, I do like the idea of pushing boundaries, especially if you're doing it. Oh, great. Very good. Very good. Um, yes, I don't know, I don't know if I would go there necessarily, in that kind of shoveling is what comes to mind, we think about leaders. And we can think some of our, you know, female, political either leaders in this country, for example, is quite the opposite of that. They're almost more male than the males in their approach, and they fight and find their presence in that style. I think, you know, I think, you know, the kind of servant leader thing you talked about, I do get, because I know that, you know, we talk about, you know, in servant leadership, you know, it's about kind of, I guess, compassion, I think, is one of the one of the elements of servant leadership and capabilities. And it's really, it's about a more of a collective. Yeah, style, which, you know, you know, it goes away from that kind of hierarchical structure where, you know, the the alphas or the loudest voices, which is what we're talking about, you know, sort of dominate, the conversations dominate the decisions dominate the kind of leadership itself. And, yeah, yeah, so like, you know, I think we've we've certainly experienced that in the past as well. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, a louder voice, you know, in the broad sense of that definition is more compelling, isn't it? The metaphor I like here is you enter a bar, and there's a group of people in the room including a very studious looking fellow, reading a book by the fry, and then the naked man by the bar shouting and brandishing and the chef's machete. So you know, who gets your attention in that scenario? I think you need to find different bars. That's what I think you need to do. But you know, you know, my point, there's something that your point. So what story comes to mind, and it kind of goes back to the cultural thing very much, you know, I worked on a global team. And there were a whole mixture of characters and that, you know, I am gonna in I'm not totally stereotypical, but these two characters in the team were both working on something and one was a, I guess, I guess he was mid 50s, American ex military, actually, you know, he was a purple high, a very, very brave gentleman. But kind of typical and loud in Austin in everything he did. He was loud. And there was a lady who was partnering up with who was from India. And she was, she was petite. And she was quiet, she was a quiet voice. But it was really interesting that they really respected each other because, I mean, she had a style, you can imagine that that she could have been completely dominated in this kind of working relationship, but her style was very much with so let the the guy the American guy, have his stay that way, obviously, I and then and then have it in the quietest voice possible, she would either say I agree or disagree. And if you disagree, she would explain why she disagreed. And, and he would, he would listen to her, and they will come up with something. So but there was such a contrast. But they found a way. They found a way. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the think the conjuring trick goose thing I alluded to earlier, I think, you know, there's a there's a rhetorical sort of flourish is probably the wrong word. And if you ever have sort of listened to great speeches, and actually, we, we talked about this on a few podcasts ago, that you listen to a great speaker, they will often slow down, right, they and they're often talk quietly, and you find yourself leaning in, and listening more intently to hear what they're saying. And so it is a conjuring trick to get attention, actually speaking in a quiet voice. Because if people are either being respectful, or they're interested, or they're compelled to listen to you, if you force them to listen, by speaking quietly, it brings a dimension to the conversation that's actually very different from a loud conversation, where sometimes it's hard to hear people are being loud, because they're being so loud. So it is a sort of, it is a flourish, that's sort of it's a known thing. And also, you know, in a in the, in the medical profession, they're actually trained during emergencies, you know, to speak slowly and quietly, to give confidence in a in a, in an environment where perhaps, actually, it's all very exciting, and actually all very troubling. So there is something basically calming and allowing for you to improve listening by speaking slowly and clearly, in an environment where lots of people are not doing that, yes, you've triggered something there. So you know, when the early day, you're going on a kind of speakers course, or it's kind of more of a workshop, but it was it was interesting, and the guy there was talking about, he was talking about slowing down, and he's talking about speaking quietly, anything when you, you know, he was pointing that you need to continue to connect with the audience. But when you've got that, when you actually go quiet, it's it's like you're kind of creating a special environment. It's kind of like, it's like you're sharing a secret or something with Yes, yeah. And that itself is very powerful. Because it captivates people when they it's like, you know, it's this is just for you. And I'm now talking quietly. And you know, what I'm saying is really important. But I don't want to make a sharp yet put it out there for everybody. And yes, that was a that was a technique. That was certainly one I was aware of, ya know, and I think, you know, if you, I think it triggers a, you know, feel feels more intimate that doesn't it, you know, it feels special, as you say, and so I think that that's the conjuring trick. And it's the sort of the it's a very sort of crude definition of the quiet voice, but I think it is, you know, you know, for people who are interested in sort of the science of being heard, I think that's a technique that actually is quite useful. But I want to go back to my female leadership thing, actually, because I did a bit of research on this, and how about this as an example, which I thought was very compelling that the World Economic Forum looked at outcomes globally, following the COVID 9919 pandemic, okay. And it showed that countries led by women had statistically better outcomes, which they defined by lower death rates, okay. Then countries that run by men, so good examples were New Zealand, German. Zealand. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think I think it was something like 190 800 994 countries were reviewed. And, and only 10% were led by women. But you know, of that 10% it, there was a statistical significance in terms of the death rate in those countries. And so, yeah, there's quite a, there's quite a there was quite quite a sort of debate. They went on a still actually what had they done, and it was something to do with actually they were, they were a little bit more risk averse, that in dealing with the crisis, they actually locked down earlier, those countries, they were a bit more consensual by, you know, considering the views of their of their leadership teams. But I thought that was very interesting. And I actually, I was shocked by that stat that only 10% of the countries in the world are led by women. But I did a little bit more research. And that's about the same percentage of women CEOs in the Fortune 500 companies. So, you know, this is, you know, this is known to be you know, that, that style of leadership is known to be a powerful leadership style, demonstrable long term effectiveness, it's inclusive and empowers people. People work better together in that sort of environment. But it's actually applied in a very small proportion of countries in the world, and a very small portion of companies in the world, which made me intrigued as to why that was so and I get a wake up to lots of comments on that I suspect, I'm gonna carry on with your 10%. Leave world leaders female, then that must in some way, then say those countries have in some way, are what they clearly are accepting of a female leader, and maybe even their mindset. Yeah, generally and collectively, is different than the other countries that are led by men. You know, there's, there's probably more to it than just a leader. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you presume they're all democracies. And so therefore, you, you presume that as a democratic process, then it's a meritocracy. And, and the leader is chosen, who's the best leader to do the job. It's just, it's just so interesting that I think that the leaders that I described, they're actually, you know, we're working in this style, that actually, it is this form of practice, quiet voice servant leadership, which is not common in successful, sorry, not common in a lot of the democracy or the, or the large, fortune 500. Companies, and that's fine. You know, there are problems with the quiet voice, actually, and again, looking at this, because I think the quiet voice has as an approach is very vulnerable to not being listened to. So you gave the example of that Indian woman who actually was listened to by your American colleague, but I think the problem is that, you know, if you do work with a quiet voice, you can have the best ideas in the world, you might have a great plan. But if those ideas are not heard, they don't actually don't exist in the world, you know, that. That's true. i That's why I was, you know, referring to the kind of, you know, the kind of world of, of the social platforms that are increasingly being used in organizations to connect people, but it also brings about a balance, because, you know, I mean, short short of typing in Big shout letters, something I mean, the voices are all equal, that come through those sort of going to collective platforms of sharing information, knowledge, updates, etc. That is a, you know, it's an equal voice, as opposed to the reality of the people behind it. Now, that doesn't mean that people would allow the voice or perhaps more active or structured their language different but it I think it does balance to a certain degree. Yeah, I think I think it's an interesting angle. I think social media is uniquely vulnerable to being hijacked by the most acerbic, vitriolic, loudest brutal voices. I think that's a very interesting point. I was thinking more in terms of, you know, people to people interactions in a business context and in a, in a life context. And and, you know, I was just intrigued by that conjunction that it's demonstrably I am, I believe it's a very effective leadership approach or approach to dealing with interactions between people, but it's also has has challenges associated with it. I think you can look, as I said, Before, I think you can sometimes look weak and indecisive because, you know, decision making can take longer when it's collaborative. I think, you know, the practice for the quiet voice over delegation can be a challenge. And we talk about the importance of delegating and the importance of diversity and allowing a range of views but of course, you know, there are some, there are some occasions when it's not appropriate to do that. I mean, take a battlefield scenario, you you don't want to have a situation where you're on the frontline and Okay, chaps, that we were going to take that trench over there. Can we just talk it through anyone got good ideas have we might want to do this? I'd quite like to delegate this. Anyone like to offer themselves up to this challenge, you know, just doesn't work, does it? I think there are in crisis situations. I'm not sure. It's a style that works but for sustainable, long term inclusive directional progress. I think it's a very powerful technique. III feel, you know, I'm reflecting on our world, and I'm not gonna name groups or anything like that. But, you know, it's the quiet voice. I mean, they do they tend to drift a certain road types of roles. I mean, there's certainly groups we know that, or it's certainly a thing, but the quiet voice in our world, and, you know, is that they're just drawn to these different types of roles or activities or responsibilities and, and others are drawn to a, an environment, and perhaps that supports a quieter voice. Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, I, I think I you know, as I said, at the start, I think it's a base identity. I think it's, you know, I'm using a phrase here, but I think it's, it's, you know, a lot of people manifest like this. And so, you know, they can learn tips and tricks to make themselves more effective. And I think what I my plea here is about the authenticity and the fact that while sometimes a quiet voice, particularly in a commercial construct isn't always seen as a powerful weapon, I'm arguing that it can be, and it's about looking at the attributes and making sure you use them. But yeah, I mean, do do people, do people have a quiet voice tend to certain professions, possibly. But I'd like to feel that in all professions are filled with all different sorts of people. And we've argued in the past about it working with teams and in leadership roles, it's about bringing all the variation of skills that people have got to bear in a way that brings the best outcome for the collective and so I'm sure you're right, but I would hope, but I think we, you could, if you think about your circle of friends, if you think about your business colleagues, there will be a community of people there that work who talk in a quiet voice. And I don't mean that listen, I'm just I'm just analyzing you right now. There we go. You Careful, careful because we are live. Let's have a bit more fun with this. I mean, you hadn't you hadn't come across that we were the quietest person in the room, Feeny because, and this is sort of an outside in look. So what I was talking about before was, you know, perhaps, as a, as a practitioner with a quiet voice, you know, what are the pros and cons of it? You know, we talked about leadership styles, servant leadership, perhaps the attributes that are often associated with women leaders that are women leaders that are powerful. We talked about some of the challenges associated with adding it perhaps in a in a robust environment. But looking at it the other way, you know, when you come across a quiet voice, how do you how best to respond to that? And so, I wanted to have a bit of fun by Yeah, the, you know, the phrase Dark Horse feeder? I do that? I know that one? Yes. Yeah. Meaning that, you know, this is some, you know, this is something somebody that unexpectedly rises to prominence, it's a similar thing, really, I think, when you have a, you know, they're a bit of a dark horse. So maybe they're not overtly. You know, playing playing, you know, they're not playing the game, or they're not a player or, you know, they're not demonstrably overtly. Someone that you think is going to take something by the scruff of the neck and make it happen, but then they do. And so they're described as a dark horse, for reasons which actually escaped me. I'm sure you do know why, where does Dark Horse come from? Keep talking. I'll look it up for you. Okay. So, but I think there are dangers to overlooking the quietest person in the room. Often, you know, the phrase, be careful, the quietest person in the room. You know, it's sometimes referred to the fact that the quietest person in the room is sometimes the brightest person in the room. It's got to be careful that which, of course, is not the same as ignoring the elephant of the room, which is a phrase. I know, you know, Peter, but you know, that one, yeah. The elephant in the room has been actively avoided. And the, you know, the quietest person in the room was often being passively avoided. So, and I think, well, actually, I think the elephant in the room is another topic we should come to at some point. You know, why, why are we why there are elephants in the room? But come on. Okay. So I've looked up the origin of the of the Dark Horse and apparently the term began as a horse racing parlance for a racehorse that is unknown to gamblers. And it's difficult to establish betting odds for Okay, first mentioned in Benjamin Disraeli, his novel The young Duke in 1831. Okay, so for some things. So he go play the game with me. So, I'm really you're in a meeting, and there's someone in the room that's really quiet. Yeah. And let's take the premise that they're really important. They're really quiet, but they're really important. So give me a scenario who might be quiet and important in a room? Well, I think all right. I think often you A very senior person entering a room can, if they all will sit, you know, often perhaps even to one side, just like I'd like to just sit in and listen to see what's going on. Yeah. And then, you know, it would be pointless for them to then dominate the conversation or whatever, because that's what they weren't actually part of that meeting originally. So yes, Matt are really have like disrespect in the group as they're possibly if they're invited to say something. Yeah, no, exactly. So I think, you know, sometimes you're in an environment and there's a room of people and there's someone quiet. And you know, I think human nature, sometimes it's just sort of perhaps ignore the quietest person in the room. Because I think we're vulnerable to those mental shortcuts that, you know, we have a lot of complexity going on lots of chat going on, often focus on the outspoken Don't be because it's where the noise is coming from, you know, it's that naked man with a machete perhaps, you know, and station now, sorry, I should have used a different example. But often at first impressions are important, because, you know, it's sometimes the most senior looking person in the room that commands the room. You know, I think first impressions are very interesting when it comes to this sort of group dynamic, which we should probably do that another time. But yeah, there we go. So to ignore, you know, the real leader in the room that hasn't been announced, as a real leader, they have the power, but they're not the subject matter expert, and they're observing, so you know, big mistake, to not pay attention to that person. Yeah, that's one. That's another one where there's another reason that someone might be quiet, but actually, that will be wrong to avoid them. The other scenario we're going to come up with is if you know, if you're in a, if you're in a group of people, you know, in fact, you don't know them particularly well. But maybe you're trying to, you know, try and present something and get consensus or anything like that, if someone is saying nothing, it does not mean they are on board, they could be completely against what you're trying to pitch, but are going to use other means outside of the meeting, to get their way or counter what you're saying. That's right. That's right. So you might be talking might be looking at non decision maker, but someone that's perhaps either making recommendations for the real leader, or as you say, may have an agenda all of their own and their data gathering in order to take what they've learned forward. And, you know, take a plan and you know, I think Saarland people may be solid by nature by choice, or both. And actually, you don't know that when you're in a when you're in a group dynamics. So yeah, that's the second one. I won't stress too much. I think the other one is where you have inexperienced leaders, so they are the leader, they are the decision maker, but maybe, you know, through humility, they're referring to the experts in the room. And I think that's, well, I would say there's probably an another another subtle nuance to that is, you know, sometimes when you're when you're a leader, and you're gathering a group of people, you're the new team, you haven't worked with them before. And you you kind of want to see how they play and see what you know, takes take some stock of the you know, there, there's the skills are professional capability, their competence, all that kind of stuff. And the less you speak, the more you're likely to be able to view that I think, yeah, I think that's right. And, and I saw a nice phrase, actually, which I'm going to copy because it resonated with me. I think it said that quiet people are the Schrodinger. Schrodinger as Cat of meeting she don't know who they are. I really like that. Did you know The Schrodinger cat bit of philosophy? I didn't know one thing that you say it doesn't mean, you have to check everything after that. I mean, that was the first thing you put forward apart from that strange, man, woman, whatever it was, that had the quotes we talked about beforehand, it was something of no reach. You know, I do learn some things, but most of it I got aware of, yeah, but I liked that. Because I thought that's actually that's a maxim, not just for work. It's also for life that, you know, you actually don't know where people are coming from until you talk to them. And therefore, you know, if you're either if you're interested, or that, you know, you want to be open to the possibility of learning something or hearing someone else's opinion, or, you know, being informed or just being social, you actually do need to talk to people to find out, you know, whether they're alive or dead cat in their box metaphor a little bit further. I do have a story. I do have a story. In what is a quiet voice, which also Silent Voice. I'll give you the quick version. I was flying somewhere I was on. This particular time I was flying in business class. It was very nice. I have no complaints at all. It was gorgeous on Emirates. And we landed in Dubai, and then got off and go on to the next plane. And when I got on, there are different people in the sort of middle seats near me. And this couple got on and we were given a nice glass of bubbly when you get on and it's a fabulous environment to travel in. As I said no complaints but This day, the the aircrew or one of the guys came up because they played his guy, we have an opportunity to move, moving up to first class. But there's only one seat. And his wife, girlfriend, partner, whoever she was just, he looked at her pleasingly. And she just sat there and took a sip of champagne and said absolutely nothing. And then he kept saying things like, I might never get a chance to be approved again. And she just took a little sip, but just looked at him. And this is brilliant battle that went on. I guess, I guess he couldn't hand it to her. Maybe that wasn't allowing him to roll, which will be the noble thing to do. But he didn't take it in the end. But he spent a lot of time back in the in business class talking to her. But it was a fact that she was negotiated by silence. So that was incredible. There was another dynamic going on there. But ya know, that's, you don't have to say anything to be heard. Do you? That's true. Yeah. So there you go, Peter. That was it. I just talked about the power of the quiet voice. I wanted to talk about it as sort of an outside in so Inside Out View and sort of a leadership style and what I think are great strengths associated with collaboration, inclusiveness, delegation, and sustainable change. But the challenges of being heard and some tips and tricks perhaps to make a voice heard in an environment that's quite rumbustious. And then the outside in view, when you're, you know, you're in an environment where there is a quiet voice around you. And you actually, don't underestimate the quiet voice. Because you know, those three sort of fun scenarios we went through are all reasons why actually, you would have very, very seriously screwed up and you ignore that person, because they actually had all the power. Yeah, yeah. No, good, good topic and well researched. And, yeah, you, you have a floundering start. But as you know, Peter, that is my main objective. When I when I carry the topic to give you something you can't google so that you have to deep dig deep into your memory banks for that story or that book. And I'm glad you haven't written anything about that, actually. I'm sure you will. And on this note, listeners, you know, I you know, I think we've got multiple listeners now, you know, that's why we're talking about the fact we are ready to write the Squidward disappear book, and we just need to find a publisher. So the first one out there, please contact us because we'd be very excited to do that. Yeah, now well, I'm sure that will happen. Peter, I'm sure will happen and it will be a great day. But we're still searching of course we are searching so you know, let's let's use the power of our massive audience and see what comes up. Very good. Well, I look forward to the next topic. PTSD. Do you have one lined up for me next time? I did. I wrote it down somewhere and I can't find it. But I will find it and yeah, yeah, we'll do something. I'm looking forward to the September issue. Payback. Alright, well, thanks for indulging me this time, Peter. All right. It's a pleasure as ever. Bye. Bye. You been listening to an unusual podcast from David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. More information can be found at WWW dot squid of despair.com.