Squid #18 - Resilience

Incorporating the now famous 'lost episode of Squid' when a technical issue caused a significant loss to DAS and Peter but the subject of this episode is resilience and they are committed to therefore being 'resilient' about it all.

Resilient - (of a person or animal) able to withstand or recover quickly from difficult conditions

The dynamic duo explore whether you are, or aren't resilient, and why - and consider ways to become more resilient in the future, as well as ways to stave off the cause of stress that may test any resilience that you have.

And DAS, reluctantly. talks about cupboards.

Summary

• Dealing with absurd questions and lost audio. 0:08
   
  • Host David Smith and co-host Peter Taylor discuss a missing episode of their podcast, "Squid of Despair," and the potential causes of its disappearance. 
  • DAS shares a funny story about a car accident that resulted in a bad joke, leading to a discussion on dealing with illogical questions and advice.
  • Peter reflects on the episode's content, concluding with a rewrite of the original question and paying tribute to the lost squid.
• Resilience and coping strategies for dealing with stress. 3:22
   
  • Resilience requires coping skills, says Peter, a resilient individual. 
  • Peter discusses the importance of resilience in dealing with challenges at work, suggesting that it can act as a catalyst for personal growth.
  • DAS agrees that resilience is hard to define but believes it can be a catalyst for growth when approached with a positive mindset.
  • DAS describes different stages of chronic stress, including feeling under stress but coping, becoming frazzled, and reaching a breaking point with an outburst.
  • Peter relates to this experience, acknowledging they are resilient but can relate to the stages of chronic stress.
• Resilience and stress management in project management. 9:15
   
  • Peter describes their experience with stress and burnout while managing a massive project, recognizing the need for change to avoid harming themselves.
  • Peter wrote a book, "The Lazy Project Manager," based on their lessons learned to help others avoid similar experiences.
• Stress management and mindfulness. 11:23
   
  • Peter describes feeling centered and balanced most of the time, with a sense of calm and positive mood.
  • DAS notes that stress can be addictive, with people often seeking stimulation and distractions rather than contentment.
  • Mindfulness is key to balance in life, according to Peter and DAS.
  • Peter mentions that mindless behavior, such as excessive drinking or seeking distraction, can be a sign of stress and overwhelm.
  • DAS agrees and adds that recognizing these behaviors in oneself and others can help identify potential problems before they become more serious.
• Managing stress and finding balance in work and life. 18:05
   
  • Peter discusses the power of the mind in managing stress and achieving positive outcomes, citing the placebo effect as an example.
  • Peter suggests that maintaining a positive mindset can help deal with challenges and stress, even if they are difficult or overwhelming.
  • Peter and DAS discuss common triggers for work-related stress, including micromanaging and catastrophizing.
  • They also explore how hobbies can provide insight into how to approa

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the squid of despair, unscripted musings on business life leadership, creativity, transformation, and all the myriad of other work life events that get in the way of good night's sleep. Hosted by David, Ealing Smith and Peter Taylor. Hello, Peter, how are you? I'm okay. I'm okay. But you know, there was a bit of a bit of trauma in our recent history. I actually, I might have been looking for our last episode, but it went missing speed. You want to tell our listeners stop to the people? You don't know what went on. But yes, yeah. Well, I mean, to be fair, this is in some ways, unbalanced relationship. Like I'm in charge of technical stuff. And so well, let me put it this way. I have an official statement produced and the it goes like this fate slipped in, and we now have a squid of despair last episode, and it was one of mine as well, which is getting a little bit sad for me. I honestly don't know what happened. But it just didn't happen. It didn't record it disappeared somewhere. I don't know. Well, yeah. Yeah. But you know, I actually, I mean, I don't mean to tease you too much. Because actually, I'm a I'm a bit pleased because I, you know, there weren't there were a few wardrobe mishaps, whatever, whatever the podcast equivalent that is on the episode, which culminated in me telling a very, very bad joke where I forgot the punch line at the end of that particular episode. So I think this was just the universe reflecting that actually, that one wasn't good enough. Well, possibly, yes, that I was gonna have to edit that particularly bad joke out. Absolutely. But so let's just put a little bit of history back in place. So the premise I put out at the start of this last squid was, it was a great question. It was have you ever been involved in a car accident that resulted in your death? And this led doesn't know I on to a discussion around dealing with stupid questions, or people who to us have a totally illogical point of view or position? And they were definitely there was much wise. I mean, no, that was the bad joke. But there was much wise advice presented by both parties, which is now lost forever. And even though I decided that we couldn't recreate that particular moment, we have Sperry special and so this is officially last squid. Well, one days, this will be a classic who has ever found on ebay, someone flogging it? Because it was really formed in the BBC archive sometime in 50 years time, maybe. But listen, I do know, I do know that we conclude with a rewrite of the original question. And that that question, have you ever been involved in a car accident that resulted in your death? was from an actual car insurance survey or formal claim for? Well, I'm not sure that was one of those things. And I think an uncredited death, because you you rewrote that question, too. Have you ever been involved in a car accident that resulted in your temporary clinical death? So he made a lot of sense out of nonsense, but he did. They're so lost squid, rest in peace, wherever you are. And now, there's what is the squid of the day. But I'm glad you asked me that be there. So for this squid, I'd like to talk about resilience. Peter, I'd like to discuss with you the importance of it. What it is, and perhaps some strategies that as individuals, we can adopt to get a bit more of it, and perhaps a surprising side benefit of coping strategies that may not immediately come to mind. So there we go. The importance, relevance and necessity and resilience. What you showed a lot of it over the years working with the artist a bit. Well, thank you for going there. First of all, while you Google, why we did it perhaps something like keyboard session a little bit better. So, I mean, I was thinking about this, as it was my turn, you know, the world continues to be pretty difficult place for many of us right now, doesn't it with, you know, with the with, with all that dreadful stuff that's going on in Israel and, you know, the Ukraine war, I still think we have a mental health pandemic, really, you know, which which is which was made worse during the, during the, the real pandemic? You know, and and every day people struggle with illness and bereavement and relationship challenges and loneliness. And so, yeah, there's just as wonderful as life is there are lots of challenges in a lot of people's lives. And if you layer on top of that in a working environment, you know, well, let's just say we're a community of very, very productive people. You know, that stream of daily challenges just, you know, you're vulnerable to hacking Assuming your energy and and you want to stay alert and happy and balanced, but I think that does require resilience. And I think resilience requires coping skills and, and that's what I wanted to sort of chat through with you because you are a very resilient person, Peter, and I thought you might have some tips and tricks you might want to share with the audience. We'll see. Interesting, I mean, we'll probably Amelia wants to go back to you know, we've talked about optimism, we've talked about fun, we've talked about that kind of positive attitude, it kind of reflects back to a lot of that I feel is that if you are have that moment, if you're feeling in a positive, optimistic state of mind, and I believe you kind of have a little bit of a Teflon coating when it comes to sort of things coming at you and trying to attack your your potential resilience or demand, or you're not not even demanding or resilience. Because you cope, you're kind of an energy flow, I suppose. About work. I mean, you know, there's this, you know, we're in a challenging period of time at work at the moment, lots of demands of questions and decisions to be made. And, you know, they they will come at you is kind of little tiny Parana bites and it can wear you down. So, I'm just gonna say thank you for, you know, cutting to the punch line, as you always do in sporting my whole episode. But your performance down, you actually know that not not that last bit that first bit. I thought that was that's actually very good. Sorry. Yeah, no, I think I think actually, I think resilience is quite hard to define, I think it's something that's a bit ephemeral, really, you know, it helps us deal with all of the stuff I talked about. And clearly coping mechanisms are a part of it. But I'd like to suggest that looked at in a, in a with a positive mindset, resilience actually is a catalyst for personal growth. That's where I'd like to head with this. I mean, I think we should go through the coping strategies first, because I think that it's always helpful to have lists of, you know, possible improvement techniques for for folks, because I know, we've had some feedback that people like a good list, I know, you're thinking about the book again, as well. I am, I am, I think, you know, I've got that book. I know, I have. And I also just like to perhaps acknowledge, again, I'm, I'm less than I'm not an expert here. But you know, having lived a certain number of years on this life, I would, I would say, you know, I would recognize there's a couple of sorts of stress, there's the sort of the chronic tension that goes on for a long time, which is different from the stress you get, perhaps by being in accident when your adrenaline kicks in, and it goes away, hopefully, shortly after that. But your ongoing stress, I think, is a bit like a dripping tap, isn't it? Firstly, you don't notice it, that you're irritated by it, and then it becomes absolute torture, and you can't stand it anymore. And also, I want to acknowledge the fact that people respond to stress differently. And that's absolutely right and proper. And so these are big generalizations. And probably big dollops of personal experience here, but you know, that it is what it is, and people can take out of this what they like, but I do think one tends to go, if we look at that chronic stress, you know, that sort of that, you know, we you sort of you walk for miles with a stone in the shoe until you can't bear it anymore. And it's just it always intrigues me actually why people do that. But would you would you accept the fact perhaps that, you know, generally speaking, there's different stages you go through with extra chronic stress. If I say I think most of our listeners will have this in their lives, either through work or through personal experience, you know, there's a situation where you feel under stress, but you still feel I'm going to use the term center, I'm going to come back to that, you know, you you're under stress, but you're coping with it, you know, you recognize you're under stress and you you feel okay, you can you can you can manage. And then perhaps the next day, you really frazzled by the stress. And you're making a huge effort not to be angry or resentment or impatient with those around you. And then perhaps that final stage is where you actually can't cope anymore. And there's there's an outburst let's perhaps not take it any further than that there's an outburst, which might get rid of the tension for a while, but probably leaves you feeling a bit embarrassed or ashamed or, you know, exhausted and frustrated. And then the cycle starts again, you, would you could you relate to that pay down, maybe not you personally, but just you know, in your experience of going through this life for a while. For a while for quite a while, I'd be go through his level and really you obviously yes, I can actually, I mean, you say you say I'm a resilient. I'm a Yeah, I would recognize that. But I think that that resilience, and my general attitude was pretty attested in the early stages of my career. And, you know, I think I've learned from that so you know, I ran a project, a massive project, probably too big that I should have taken on at the time, but nobody else was would do it or was available or had the stamina apparently to do it. It ran for nearly three years. And it was the latter part of it. It was all consuming and you know, towards the end. But I recognized I had stress I actually went on a holiday. I mean, even the holidays were interrupted with various phone calls and things like that. And, you know, these are the days that See where we didn't have the mobile phones and in the dark ages, etc. So goodness knows what it'd be like in that situation. But as it was, I was attending so many meetings, traveling so many hours involved in so many decisions, all of the things I didn't, hadn't yet learned around delegation and all that working with a team properly. And you know, we have a vacation, and I was really quite stunned about two days, even when I was really, really ill, for a couple of days. And that was fine. And I didn't, I just didn't feel well, now I do. It's just one of those things, unfortunately. And then when it happened, again, on that sort of another holiday, you know, quite a few months later, then I realized I was suffering from stress. And it was the fact that and if you like my resilience was carrying me through on a day to day basis. And yet it was when I stopped. That's when he hit me. I said, I learned a lot from that from reflecting on that particular approach, because I kind of realized I love project management. But I realized that if I carried on doing project management the way I was doing it, I would have killed myself. So I had to change. And so you came back and wrote the lazy project manager, and then everything changed. At least the project measure. Thank you for the book plug was written on the basis of some of the lessons I've learned really, yeah, no, I think I think I knew that about you. Because he was being so grumpy. I said, for goodness sake be to go and write a book. I remember that clearly. I recognize your truth. But whether it's reality or not. But I you know, I would I think putting up with chronic stress isn't isn't good for any of us in terms of our health. And, and actually, I actually, I do think I think there are coping strategies or coping strategies for dealing with stress. But I think chronic stress is I think, are best addressed. Because as you just described, either you're very vulnerable, your help is very vulnerable. I think, if you haven't been too long, I mean, how many how many of us have teachers as friends who get to the end of term and they go off and they're sick? I mean, it's, it's a thing, isn't it? In that in the education profession, I think I'd like to suggest that one of the tricks for dealing with, you know, just a high level of stress and an ongoing situation, is to try and stay in balance, be resilient eating, I guess, is the phrase we use now. And you know, as you as you move out of balance, you're trying to get back into balance as soon as possible. So can I talk about that a little bit about what it is to be imbalanced? How it is? Then done, perhaps, perhaps a few tips and techniques to get there? Okay, so Well, actually, you know, you've just described that stressful situation. So, would you recognize yourself as being centered and balanced at times? How would you describe that that phenomenon for you? At times? Um, no, I think I think I'm pretty centered and balanced most of the time now, when I've recognized to control the flow of, of work responsibilities, to use my team effectively, to, you know, personally assess myself a lot more on a regular basis. So yeah, yeah, I would, I mean, I think that's a good way to look at it. I think being for me being centered or balanced, is, has a set of feelings associated, you know, you're calm, I think, once calm, but you don't feel dulled. You just you know, you have you have energy, your moods positive? It's not happiness, really, is it? I think it's actually more sort of contentment. It's an interesting distinction. And I'm often intrigued, you would have thought that that's a comforting place for people to sit. And I think, as you get older, perhaps that is a more natural place to be. But often, people actually are not comfortable being content and drive needs stimulation and running off excitement and distractions. It's almost as though I think stress can be a bit addictive, actually. But you often see that, don't you that people sort of need to feel alive need to escape sometimes. And I think that's a self perpetuating cycle. But I certainly look at the younger generation and some of the younger children and, you know, I don't I don't envy them. They're kind of angsty existence. They seem to want to do live these days, because they seem to operate on a level of stress, which is some some concern. I think. We certainly like those two old gentleman Muppets now, aren't we? Yeah, yeah. But I, I think, you know, when when when one is imbalanced, and actually I'm going to call that mindful mindfulness. I think there's, I think it's the same thing, it feels like it for me. So, you know, you sleep better, don't you? You, you sort of deal with expressions of excitement or anxiety of depression before they get worse. I'm a big one, you know, being around you for a lot of my life, you make time to have fun. I think, you know, when you're in balance, I think having fun is a big part of it for for a lot of people, you know, I think you know, from a relationship point of view, you work on it, you're open rather than sort of being closed. I would say you Don't multitask so much. You sort of focus on one thing at a time, and also say you don't probably constantly monitor everything. So that was Unless I came up with I was thinking about how is it? Do I feel when I've sort of feeling more mindful? What is that characterized by this? Does that resonate with you? Peter? Yes, I think so. I think I think that the key to it is being aware. I think a lot of it is, right. Yeah. You know, and, you know, if I go back to my, my story, in my early days, I just wasn't aware of it. And having suffered from it, I became quite consciously aware of it and, and worried about it for a while, but you find I found that balance afterwards. And, you know, I think, you know, it's, it's about, it's about how you, you know, a lot of it, you know, the old saying is, you know, problem shared, but I mean, I think if, again, in our world, if you have a good connection group of connections, you have a good team around you a good supportive instructor, and in your personal life as well, you know, friends and family, I think, then you can certainly manage it a lot better, and perhaps even be tipped off if you're if you're heading in the wrong direction. Yeah, that's good point. And I mean, I mean, just, you know, some is good, I made a list of the sort of things that you might recognize, one might recognize in oneself as being triggers, or, you know, pointers towards the fact that actually you're getting more and more stress. And, you know, I was also thinking that if, if they're being balanced and being centered, it's called mindless, I think this out of behavior list, I'm going to call it I'm sorry, mindfulness was the was always phrase for before, I think they had a valid behavior. This, I think, is Mindless Behavior. It's where you just you're repeating, you're repeating a scenario, you're not being thoughtful about why you're in it, and what you might do about it. So you know, you work into you're exhausted, you probably don't sleep very well, you're putting up with a stress at work or at home, you're seeking distraction with, you know, TV or drinking or you know, other behaviors. You know, when you focus intensely on what you're doing, you rarely move Don't get up. You're taking things seriously, you're overshooting your time, probably you're fretting and worrying, probably constantly, you know, monitoring, texting, emailing social media, you know, offering eating in a hurry, perhaps. So they're all triggers, I think that I would recognize in myself sometimes and other people, when you see that behavior going into the Okay, this is Mindless Behavior, there's actually got to be a better way to actually spend your time to you. Obviously, you're not victim to any of those breedable. Can you recognize it and other people? Well, I have no problem with with drinking the wine, but not obviously. Yes, I've no, I think all of those are all signs of, you know. Not deviant behavior. But you know, bad behavior, that is of some concern, certainly, the more loads you take off, the more concerns you should be. And I think he's, you know, what, I've seen other people who reach a point of just being overwhelmed, then then that's it. I mean, you're going you're going under at that point, because you're making you're not even treading water. Kind of what people were doing for a long period of time? I think so. And I think prevention is the is the key here, actually the best medicine, you know, and I think, you know, and it's about self care. And I think it's about trying to recognize when you're slipping away from your core, and, you know, it's about self care. And here's a phrase for you. I mean, I think, I think emotions are a choice actually, that we all have when you're in these situations. And I think you can, you can choose how you respond to stress I, I don't mean to underestimate the the enormity of stress that people have with chronic illnesses or bereavement or, you know, heaven forbid, the sort of the situations we see in the war zones, but you can choose the way you respond to them. And I'd like to go on to that. And I mean, I'm intrigued, often, you know, about the sort of the placebo effect in medicine, Peter, where, you know, there's lots of trials where people are given a drug and other people are given a sugar pill. And there's something about being giving given a pill by a doctor that makes people think that they're going to get better, and so they think they're going to get better, so they do get better. And actually, I did read a study recently, which was fascinating, where, so it's a thing actually, I don't think, you know, we know really why the placebo effect works other than it's evidence of the fact that the mind body connection is probably a lot tighter than we ever thought it was. But I did read this fantastic study where, you know, the placebo effect was real. So people were just given a sugar pill actually had a positive impact on their, on their, on their malaise. People that were given an injection or, you know, a more, a more serious placebo, if you like, that water hit, they had a better impact. And then the last one, which blew my mind was that people would actually had surgery, the placebo effect was even greater. So there's something going on here. I think about the power of your mind, where if you convince yourself that what's about to happen is going to be good. it it is. And we talked about this in our one of our leadership podcasts where, as we look forward, it was our optimism podcast, I think that actually, if you believe you have a possibility to go and achieve something, you have a chance of achieving it, even though it's very, very unlikely, because the reverse is true. If you don't think it's going to happen, it definitely won't be. So there's something about the power of the mind, I think, in in times of stress, where if you can generate a more positive outlook, it's going to help in the end, it might actually, you know, move you back to your balance. So more quickly, would you would you accept that as a premise? Yeah, do I get to kind of harken back to, you know, that that where I started operating around have that kind of positive optimistic mindset, in which case, you know, things, things don't overwhelm you, even if it doesn't mean they're not difficult or challenging, or, you know, creation of some form of stress, but it allows you to deal with it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe just thinking about some of the triggers, again, you know, here's a list for the book, culinary stress at work, you want to you want to give me a few people, I've got a list here that I've written down, but what do you think, are common triggers for people are having sort of a, an ongoing, stressful relationship with with work or life? Well, I think it's, yeah, I mean, when you're when you're at work, it's very much is you're you're often, you know, your work is dependent on many others. So, you know, the stress can come from that direction, stressful going from expectations, stress will come from my kind of career aspirations or the or the, or the drive to become better, bigger, better all the time achieve more. Yeah, there's a Yeah, I think so. I've got, you know, taking on too much responsibility, trying to exert too much control, micromanaging, you know, worrying about what could go wrong. You know, catastrophizing is a word I use, which I think, you know, we're often very guilty of, you know, that sort of little slough of despair we go into, well, you know, if that, if that happens, well, that's going to happen. And if that's happening, that's gonna happen. If that happens, we're absolutely, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's all gonna go wrong. Exactly. But it's so interesting, you know, I, I was thinking about those reasons to spread stress and, and think about compare that sort of scenario to how you feel when you're engaging in your hobby. And I was just very struck by this sort of comparison, because you know, when you're engaging in a, in a hobby, you know, there's no pressure is there. There's no micromanagement, you're relaxed, you're having fun. You know, you're approaching steps to get to your goal, you're immersed in the process, your focus, and you're just engrossed whether you're playing sport gardening, making a cupboard cooking, and it made me think about, how can we be more like that at work? But what the what does that mindset that we've got when we're engaged with something we love doing, like our hobbies? What What could that teach us about? How do we get more like that at work? Okay, well, I'm trying to put aside the fact that I might have covered making as a hobby, but I, I've tried to be inclusive, Peter. Oh, very good. Very good thing. Well, my hobbies, writing, and I'm usually right into a deadline. So you could say, it's not it's not I don't find it stressful. Hobbies can be stressful. But I think, you know, the point. Well, I, you know, I think there are, you know, if you're playing sport, you know, you got to match point down in tennis. I mean, that can be you know, but the point is, I think the point is you recognize there are sort of two different awarenesses that going on and work and play. And you can choose, you can choose which sort of awareness zone you want to be in. I think that's why I'm glad work. Yeah, exactly. Because I actually, I don't think work forces us to be stressed. I think anxiety does, you know, how we, how we respond to the stress, I think is what causes the longer term chronic stuff that actually, we, you know, we, we sort of talked about having coping strategies, leading to resilience, I think, I think a lot of this has to do with having a state of mind that allows you to sort of deal with this in an equitable way. Yeah. So can I throw something back at you then, please? So going back to the, on the resilient thing? Yeah. Can we say then that someone is resilient? Or do we say that someone hands someone almost does resilient? They do things that make them resilient as opposed to having an intrinsic resilient capability? Does that mean Yeah, I think I think I think it's the second thing actually. I think I think what happens people who are resilient are naturally doing things that make them resilient. That's my, my. I'm gonna go share a personal trick with you, Mike from my own, from my own cupboard that I made. Okay. I I find you so it's about trying to recenter during times of stress, so get balanced and be mindful. And for me being mindful is actually paying attention to what's going on. And the trick is, for me is, when you're in that sort of situation, notice two or three things about the person or the event that you've never seen before. So pay attention to it. Be mindful. And what is different about this? So you've never noticed before? And what what does that tell you that's different about the event? So a silly example here, you know, you spill a cup of coffee over the suit you're wearing, you know, for that, for that interview, or for that meeting, which is a disaster stress levels go up. But, you know, so what's what, what do we notice about that we notice about that, well, actually, actually, I probably shouldn't be drinking so much coffee. That's actually, that's not a good thing. Longton. So, okay, I my suits a mess. I look at you know, I feel embarrassed about this now, but actually, I haven't drunk that cup of coffee. Now, I know, that's a silly example. But it is an example of how you can make a positive out of a negative, take another one a purse, you know, sort of thinking about in a relationship where I don't know your partner's being irritated by you, through something you habitually do that irritates them. You know, rather than it triggering all those sort of how you always say that, or this is this is this is a scenario that, you know, gets the triggers one of the hotspots that we've talked about for pay attention and engage, you know, so why, why has that triggered, then what is it that's making them so irritated with me? And I think when you're dealing with people people actually really enjoy being engaged with and they notice you're engaging with them. And that actually is the first step, I think, to sort of defusing situations. I will go as far to say, I think resilient people have this knack. And I always go as far to say that. Any setback has enormous possibilities. Yeah, yeah. Yep, he does. He does. Well, I think, yeah, any setback? I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know, I think there's I think there's a there's a Greg in here in the sense that that's true. I think resilient people address small problems regularly. I would say, I think you'd be hit with a really, really bad one that can throw it even the best person off track, I think. Yeah, absolutely. But we you know, that we, you know, we often see examples of people that have suffered terrible deprivation in their life actually coming through it and just being shining examples of humanity. You know, there's something about the trials and tribulations, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that actually, when engaged with people come through it, and they prosper and they grow. And I'm not undermining the terrible things that befall people, but I am making the argument for there's a state of mind that you can adopt through these travails that actually give you the opportunity to grow as an individual. I think yeah, yeah. Like, no, I think you're right. I'm gonna go back. Again. I like to go off into a slightly odd tangent here. But I don't know if you made the story about Yes. Within coffee of yourself. Do you? Do you remember the we were going somewhere on site, and we met in a lay buying, you encouraged me to have a bacon sandwich in the morning, which had brown sauce on it, which I think cover my shirt and tie in brown sauce. Yeah, you were very helpful. You said just do your jacket up. And don't undo it again. Until I don't remember what Yeah, yeah, that's very hard. To say it worked, because no one in the meeting, as I recall, saw the ground source. But everyone wondered with us, where there was the source smell was coming from. I think everybody was very hungry. The result in the room? Yeah, I spilled a packet of soy sauce. I myself wanted an airport that's having some sushi flying out to Ireland. And, and it was one of those actually was embarrassing, sort of down the front of the trouser jobs. So I couldn't really cover it up. But I decided, you know, being positive is I like the smell of soy sauce. That's good job that's going to be with me all day. And so when I got into Dublin Airport, there was a drug sniffer dog that was doing the rounds. And he came straight to me. And I thought, oh, no, don't tell me that. The constitution of soy sauce has got some relationship with nitroglycerin, because this dog was just all over me because he could obviously smell the soy sauce. And the dog handler came over and smiled at me and I said, you're not going to believe this. But I've spelt soy sauce. And she said no, no, no, that's not the movement he does when he smelled explosive. He's just excited about the fact you smell great. Brilliant, brilliant, I think well, I'm gonna go off to another story now. So I think I told you this one as well. It was one of the periods of time when we weren't together I think And But was there ever a time Peter like that? Well, it was that long ago. Yeah. But so if you'd imagine, deal done major deal, and it was the the official kickoff and announcement, and there was this room full of round tablecloth white table costs everywhere. There was supposed to, I think it's about 80 people coming in the room, including the the execs of this company. And I was there with the salesman, from my own company and the salesman from the hardware company. And they'd been out on the drink the night before. And they were incredibly hungover. Of course, that's what salesmen did in those days. And the our salesman who was boasted like the opening comments was a foremost fast asleep on the table. And the lady came around and put coffee down. So he had his black coffee. Unbeknownst to him, he's tired, laid flat on the table, and the coffee had been put on top of each tie. So when it was time to actually stand up and do the presentation, you can imagine what happened when the coffee went absolutely everywhere. And he didn't even hesitate. He just did actually a very impressive opening statement. And that was his gift, I guess. But he was not fazed by it at all. There was no stress. And he was resilient to the situation. Well, I suspect that was the alcohol still in your system? Actually, we're not recommending that insulating him from the horror of that situation, I would have died, I would have died of embarrassment. So as we're sort of coming to the end of our listeners trip into work here, aren't we? So I wanted just to think so we've talked about the importance of resilience, we talked about some how you might recognize, you know, the signs of stress, we talked about some coping strategies, we talked about some, the possibilities, that actually it might actually have some unforeseen benefits. Although it's not always obvious. I'd like to just I also made a small list of some classic, I'm going to say mistakes that I think people make in a work situation that causes stress. Although I think your actual hobbies making lists. There we go, thanks for sharing that with our audience. But it's so classic mistakes at work that cause stress. And this is, you know, with a with my coaching hat on actually, I think people often set their expectations too low. You know, we talked about we've talked about the imposter syndrome on previous podcasts. But I think we all struggle with self confidence at times in our lives. And I think that often leads to the mistaken belief that if you set your sights low, you'll be safe. But I think the opposite is true. I think setting expectations too low traps you in roles and persona, where you have limited opportunity to expand into something worthwhile. And so I think it's not the job that people get stuck in, it's this is the limit psychological limitation of setting expectations too low. So there's one. Alright, I'll take that one. Another one that certain sort of similar in our industry, I don't know, it's sort of a perfectionist trait, really, but feeling that you have to be certain. And so often people feel stressed by the fact there's not a lot of certainty in the world, and life, but life is uncertain. And I think that is a cause of a lot of anxiety for people who who strive for certainty. Yeah, I think very recently, we were we discussed around, you know, the value of actually just making a decision, if, you know, making a decision is better than not making the decision. Sometimes it is. And I think, you know, the way to deal with this one, to lower the stress levels, is recognize that, you know, the unknown is actually a field of possibility. And I think personal uncertainty is hard. I don't mean to, I don't want to understate that. I know, it's very difficult. If if you need certainty in your life, and you feel uncertain. And it takes a lot of effort to put yourself in a position where it's okay, that things are open ended. But I think if you don't, all those possibilities are closed off, you know, you don't see all those those growth opportunities, which actually, you know, in terms of a work context, in some respects, in the bigger picture is what it's all about. And that's the third one actually neglecting personal growth. I think, you know, great careers are built on growth, you I think everyone has massive potential. And none of us know how to predict how we're going to be in the future. And, you know, insecurity, anxiety and the pressure to hold on to a job often is powerful forces. But I think you know, that tempts you to believe where we are now is where we're always going to be and that is just not true. It's so personal growth means that actually anyone can be anything they want to be, they've just got to want to do it enough. And so I think there are three areas that we all fall into those traps sometimes. So the takeaway for me would be a way to reduce stress at work is don't set your expectations too low. That might sound a bit counterintuitive. Try and get over the fact that you need to be certain about things and don't neglect your personal growth. I would say, Yeah, I would probably add, you know, using your Connect because your network your associates, I think is is a great supporting sort of infrastructure. For sure. I think the more you are alone in some ways, then the more vulnerable you are to being overwhelmed by things and you know, not not developing your own resilience. Yeah, the ever well said and you know, make everything you do fun, you better be mindful. Absolutely. And I'm you know, I'm looking forward to being waiting around to see your, your cupboard collection. I don't share that with anybody patient not even you know, then we had it resilience, a little bit of a, you know, a segue into how perhaps, to deal with the vagaries of the life we're in right now. And you know, hope someone somewhere gets some benefit from that. Fantastic. Thank you for that subject. Next one is going to be my subject and hopefully we will I'll try not to delete it or not record it or wherever I did. So. Yes, thank you. Alright, thanks. Good to talk to you next time. All right. You've been listening to an unusual podcast from David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. More information can be found at WWW dot squared of despair.com.