Squid #19 - Uninformed Opinions

This week, we're tackling a topic that's increasingly relevant in today's world Peter feels: The danger of uninformed opinions.

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance – Plato.

Opinion has caused more trouble on this little earth than plagues or earthquakes – Voltaire.

But that is only Plato’s and Voltaire’s opinion of course, the question is whether they were both either informed or uniformed?

 It is about the importance of speaking from real knowledge, especially in a world where opinions can be hugely and rapidly amplified through various platforms - #socialmedia

DAS and Peter explore this topic that is (it becomes apparent after the recording) very similar to the infamous lost squid episode (how did that happen…).

As usual DAS tries to put together a list and Peter goes off-piste talking about airline travel in the 1970s.

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the squid of despair, unscripted musings on business life leadership, creativity, transformation, and all the myriad of other life events that get in the way of a good night's sleep, hosted by David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Hello, Peter, how are you? I'm good, I'm good. That's a lovely, lovely energy in your voice that a lot of enthusiasm for my topic I'm very excited for now. Well, I always look forward to topics as you know, because I don't have to prepare for them. I enjoy these. I had some good feedback in the week actually about spirit of despair. Peter, one of our listeners actually remonstrated with me on an argument I took with you on squid of despair, six. And so I was being quoted squid in a way that, you know, I couldn't quite remember actually what we said. But anyway, it was a very positive feedback and, and I asked them if they would provide a topic for a future script for us. And they said they would. And I wonder if any of our other listeners today might like to do that. And what's the best way for them to submit ideas for as Peter? Oh, well, I guess I guess you could definitely go on to the squid of despair website. Or we're obviously on LinkedIn or since all the all of the fans seem to talk to you and not me, then you get over to you. Yeah, I wonder why that is. Anyway. Billy, no mates. That's why I do this with you. I just basking your your popularity. Oh, come on. You've got more people on LinkedIn and follow you than anyone else? I know. Would it be good? No, it wouldn't be good. Actually. Can I go back to what did they remonstrate you about? Well, you was it? Because you were too mean to me on that. On that one? I don't have no idea what number six was? No, no, it was just it was it was my logic, which, you know, I accept was probably very flawed. But I thought I was making a very profoundly important argument. And they disagreed with me. So that was good. I mean, there's nothing worse than being ignored. And so I'm glad someone's bothered to say thanks. All right, shall we do it? Yes. So Peter, what is the square of the day? Well, okay, this week, I'd like us to try and tackle a topic that I think is in increasingly relevant in today's world. And that topic is the danger of uninformed opinions, a danger of uninformed opinions. So once you grapple with that, I appreciate your confidence that you always enjoy these, but there's always that moment of panic. I know, either side, when someone says what the subject is, you have to think I've got to talk about this. So let me just let me go worry where it is kind of triggered for me. So recently, I was at an event, it was a project management event, of course. And it was all that entire day was focused on artificial intelligence, which is great, which is a challenge, obviously, for kind of six keynote speakers to all talk about the same subject and still make it interesting. And I was, I was very lucky, because I got on early in, and I can say things and then I saw other people rapidly reworking their presentations, because I've said things that they were gonna say. But that's, that's the one side. But when I stood up there, because there was some smart people from from actually from from Bosch, and they're doing some amazing things with with artificial intelligence. So I was very clear that when I stood there that, you know, I said, I am not an AI expert, but I am quite, it was certainly interested, certainly intrigued, certainly fascinated, possibly moving towards passionate about what AI could possibly do. So, you know, I wrote a book, I'm gonna get that in early because I know you'd like to, you'd like to actually flood my books for me and promote my books. So I did write AI and project management. So but that doesn't, still doesn't make me an expert in any way, shape, or form. Because I lead on many other people to try and try and learn something about this. And, you know, we've touched on beforehand about the whole imposter syndrome as well. And and like, what what am I doing on the stage talking about AI when I don't know that much about it, but actually, most of the people still on the stage didn't know that much about it. But they were again, interested, intrigued, passionate, wanting to learn stuff. So yeah, this kind of led me to a conversation I had with a few people. And it was about this kind of a we've seen a rise in uninformed opinions that seems to be driving people's decision making. I think it made before so that's why I sort of throw out there and that's all I know about the subject and I thought you could tell me more. Well, thank you for your confidence. sound of the mic dropping? Yeah, well, I think there are a couple of sizes this, I would suggest. So when you said that, I think there is a danger of uninformed opinions, and there has been a sort of a polarizing of debate in recent years, particularly in politics. It doesn't doesn't know where we were you have we have, we have statements of fact. And then you have debate where people will dispute the facts, or what offer another fact. And so you know, my facts better than your facts, and there appears to be a trend to try and debunk or disprove the other person's view of the world. Rather than perhaps listening in gauging with it. And so there is a, there is a danger of, of uninformed opinions. But I would like to suggest there's also a danger to believe that your perception of something is correct. So just because you think it's correct, actually doesn't mean it's correct. And so what might come across as an uninformed opinion, might actually be right. So can we explore both sides of this question? Yes, we can. Certainly we can certainly do that. I was gonna reach up to this. When I was thinking about this. I do a presentation. It's called the presentation on presentations. And it's, it's one of my fun ones I do. It teaches kind of the basics of good presentation, actually in a presentation. But at the beginning of this matter, isn't it Peter? Sorry, this is what sorry? That's a bit meta, isn't it? It's a presentation in a presentation about presentations. Yeah, yeah. You know, because you kind of have to pretty good at it. Yeah, I like to screw up completely. But one of the things I do at the beginning of this and it was I was driven to this purely because people have this is this fear of public speaking. And I was looking for some research behind this. And I came across a thing called the brewski report from 1971, which was undertaken by a US marketing firm called brewski. associates. And the good folks at travel research wanted to help in dealing what they thought was a big marketing problem for the travel industry, the suppose in Americans fear of flying, and Bruschi was able to produce the this wonderful report that says, Actually, Americans were fit for freedom, many, many other things like public speaking heights, insects, financial problems, and eat water sickness, even death. They were much more afraid of that and then flying, but that, you know, the report is completely biased, wholly inaccurate, written for a particular particular market or market intention, and completely discriminate discredited. But I did relent on it, because it did actually come up with it's very entertaining. And it also talks about the fact that actually people are afraid of public speaking way more than they are dying alone in a dark room, for example, based on that report, so yeah, there's your lies, damned lies and statistics, as Mark Twain said, I think Mark Twain said it. But so, you know, there's they feel like there's this updated scientific based of opinions or views or beliefs, that actually, we know that they you can play around with this stuff completely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's the fact? You know, our opinions, facts or opinions, opinions? We all have our lenses, don't we? Yeah, I think, you know, I think if you're saying that the danger of uninformed opinions is people positioning. facts that are incorrect or not relevant, is danger. I think that's right. I agree with that. And I think there are I think there are techniques to deal with that. But our I remember being in an argument actually many, many years ago, and, and the, you know, it was actually about this very point. And this person said to me, at the end of a very long debate, where I was trying to make my point, a business point clear, they sort of shouted at me, just because you're right, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I thought was excellent. And that is the problem, isn't it? That I think, you know, if you're if you're trading opinions, then it's quite possible that you're both right. And you just got a different perception about the same situation. And I think in that situation, it's about listening really, really hard. Just to make sure that it's actually not you that have got the uninformed opinion, not the person that's speaking to you. Would you accept that? I would agree that I would agree with that. Absolutely. And I think, I guess, I guess the reason why this is, this is what I thought was a potentially good topic was because, you know, if you'd like, you think about opinions, you're always gonna go back to the good old days down the pub, you know, three or four people at the bar, the table having a beer and arguing about something and you know that that to a significant degree has disappeared, because we all go online now and check the facts if What if we possibly can. But the counter to that is that the I would say that, you know, it's kind of really, really important these days to speak from, from our point of knowledge because we live in a world where opinions can be amplified through various platforms incredibly widely. And, and that's that's the real risk. Yeah. Well, I think, yes, I think Do you think people want to speak from a position of knowledge? Or do you think people just, you know, what, in this arena of uninformed opinions, people just want to be right. You know, they want they want to be right, and they want to convince you of the rightness of their position. Do you think that's what's happening here? When it's a genuinely uninformed opinion? I it's not correct. But that, that what's the motivation for someone coming to the party with an incorrect, uninformed opinion, do you think? Well, I think it's a little bit about, you know, kind of joining the bandwagon in some cases. Now. I mean, we all you know, we, in Great Britain, here, we loved all the wonderful stories about the evilness of the European Union and making us to have straight bananas and things like that. I mean, none of it was factually based, but we just, we just lapped it up as a country, it seemed, eventually led to Brexit. But you know, there's a huge that was a huge amount of uninformed opinion, or views or beliefs. Yes. And so how do you counter this thing? So, you know, Can I can I try and come up with a list? Yes, please. Without a list from you does without a list from you, this wouldn't be a true squid podcast. So I think I'd start from, you know, if you're listening to what you consider to be an uninformed opinion, I think it is. I think, first of all, it's what we've talked about this before. It's about active listening. It's about, you know, really listening, not perhaps to what someone's saying, but what do they mean by what they're saying? So, you know, that's about listening really hard and asking questions, thinking about what they're telling you. And then I think it's about checking the facts. And actually, I think this is critical thinking, isn't it that there is a thing about there is a, there's a technique that one can bring to sort of vague vagaries of data. And I think it's called critical thinking. I'm not 100% sure about that. But I think it's about active listening, followed by critical thinking, which comes down to basically validating the facts. And then sort of evaluating those facts against what has been a pined. And then I think it's often the case of withdraw, you know, don't, don't respond unless you really have to, because, you know, people's opinions are often very, very important to them. And I know, in a business sense that you sometimes need to, or you often need to make fact based decisions. But I think opinions are important as well, because, you know, how often are we in situations where perhaps the facts are clear, but our use of the facts are different. So we've talked in the past about optimism, and about risk taking heavily and that sort of thing. And so you can have a couple of sets of facts, which, which may come across as uninformed, because they don't align with your facts, but your facts might be coming from a position of perhaps greater appetite a risk, or perhaps an understanding of a scenario that the other person not aware of, that actually causes this to be viewed very differently, why you've got a different context. You've got, you know, you've got decisions, which are actually very close in their veracity, you know, one or the other. Actually, both are viable, they just have different factors of risk associated with it. So I think that's where data driven decision making comes in. But at the end of the day, you know, as we've said before, making a decision is probably more important than not making a decision. So and I appreciate I'm veering away from a truly uninformed opinion, which I think is what you're what you're, in my mind, I'm now hearing my facts bigger than your facts. So therefore, I'm to be right. So yeah, I, you know, I, you know, I cast my mind on this, obviously, I did a little bit of preparation. And yeah, how many times do you do we, you know, we, you know, we we quote, something they said, you know, they said this, they said that, and when we now do that they are in most cases, we have no reference point. We know, it's, you know, if you personalize this kind of stuff, like, you know, when this happened to me, or I was involved in a similar situation, and this is what I did in this situation or something like that. Then your least grounding your, your opinion in practical personal experience. I mean, yeah, let's put aside that you could be completely lying. But presuming you're being honest, from your point of view, then this is this is an honest opinion. They'll try it. I mean, it's sort of sharing an uninformed opinion. You know, without that experience, it's like a doctor practicing medicine without without being qualified, isn't it? You know, it's dangerous. It is dangerous. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's just as I was looking at some, some quotes on this as well, you know, I think it's Voltaire apparently said, opinion has caused more trouble on his little Earth and plagues or earthquakes. So yeah, not a fan. And then, you know, another one was that Plato said, opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. So it's somewhere in the middle there. Yeah, there's another one. I don't know, who said it's something like, I'm not gonna get this right. I don't think there's something like the only difference between uninformed and misinformed is that one is your choice, and the other is their choice. Like that? Yeah. I feel this could be the basis of your book, you know, that, that is less than misquotes with will could be an excellent potential book for you. But, you know, that whole thing about knowledge is strengths. And ignorance is the kiss of death. You know, it's sort of sitting in that is sitting in that world, isn't it this this particular topic? It is? But, you know, it's, you know, it comes down, I guess, it's a scale, isn't it? I mean, you know, uninformed opinion about something minor is just just a distant, you know, minor irritant in most cases. But, you know, if you're taking to make some, some serious, responsible decisions, you know, if you're attempting to be an ethical leader, or etc, then it's, you know, understanding that the decisions you're making are based on honest, reliable information is, is really important. Because, you know, everyone has the right to their opinion, don't they? And, you know, I think that's a very important premise in life work or, or non work life. And yet uninformed opinions can be dangerous gunner take an example from recent history, like, sort of the whole anti Vax movement, you know, how strong that was during the pandemic? Yes. And it's interesting is that people are completely entitled to their opinion on something like that, but sort of the problem comes when they push it on you, or they push it on your kids, or they push it on your loved ones, don't you think that? And, and, and yet, I would argue strongly for people, it's right to have have an opinion. And, you know, and carry that through? If that's what they want to do. It's just when it gets applied to other people, I think is the problem, isn't it? Yeah. Well, I think yes, that yes, that's, I think that's a good example, is a really complex example. And certainly evoke very strong opinions one way or the other is a kind of a way to work extremely well. And that's where it leads to troubles, of course, isn't it? Yeah, there's got to get back to this little this was such a big thing for the world. That, yeah, you had these very strong opposing views out there. But if you bring it back to kind of, you know, kind of the practical aspects of how you can deal with this. I mean, I guess it started, you got to start with yourself really have looked at, you know, it's about recognizing your new yourself are speaking from as informed position as possible. And all experience is a very personal and no, understanding is very personal as well, for most things. Very, very little in this life is truly binary in that sense. It you know, there's no right or wrong. I mean, you could argue, mathematical things are either right or not, right. But a lot of things have, or can be kind of your own bias more than a bias. That's probably the wrong way. Or what I'm saying I'm trying to struggle for the words here, but it is having your own take on it your own understanding. Ya know, no, that's right. But it's so interesting. Is it so you know, how, when you're presented with something like that, and you have an opinion about it, there's nothing to say that your opinion is right. Unless you're, you know, let's say you're an expert in that subject to your world versed in that subject. I think it's beholding to all of us when we're presented with something that sounds like an uninformed opinion, to check our own understanding of that topic, then do you think Don't you think there's a responsibility to do that otherwise? There's a danger of view, one, sorry, pushing your own uninformed opinion back. And that's where we got to with so many situations today where we have this divisive perspective where We have a polarized view about topics and rather than an informed debate about differences of opinion, which might lead to education and an improved understanding from both sides, which might allow people to change their minds, we get into this adversarial situation, don't worry where as you say, you know, my thoughts, but my back is bigger than your facts, though I think there's a responsibility when you're, when you're in this situation to validate your own knowledge on the topic, I would, I would think that it's important otherwise, this is just perpetuated, this just perpetuates the spouting of uninformed opinions potentially or the danger of spouting uninformed opinions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes, I think it is beholden to you to check to check things. I mean, you know, it's, I suppose it's kind of like the the danger of the world, we're in the moment that, you know, you can go on to Google, if you're being old school like us and look up something, and she might take the first thing that appears in your resume, that is the Absolute Truth, but it may not be in only if we look at the you know, the future world of AI is gonna give you the perfect answer. There's a huge amount of trust that the actually is providing? Well, that's the perfect calendar according to the dataset that is working for exactly, yes, yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? So, you know, but isn't isn't natural knowledge that, you know, the fact is dependent on the data set that the facts derive from? And we know that, as you've said before, it's very nuanced. And so there's, you know, there are probably not many arguments that are completely secured by facts, because because of what you said before that the context or people's experience is different. And so how they land is, is very varied. And so isn't it more important in this scenario, to try and continue to be curious to improve? Either your understanding the first case of what the argument is, or perhaps more fundamentally, you're to be curious about why that person is saying what they're saying. We've had this conversation before, isn't it that when, when you engage with people on topics with which they are passionate, it's always interesting, can be very frustrating. But people, people are seen by having engagement with somebody else who's interested in what they're saying. And so don't you think that's a much more positive place to be than a than a an adversarial? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's all part of that, that skill, if you said of, like challenging yourself and challenging others, but doing it in a very friendly way, if you like. And, you know, I think we also have to accept that, you know, even facts change over time, I'm, you know, I'm a big fan of Qi, the TV program. And and it was fascinating that they were reflecting not too long ago about how many things how many things are now inaccurate that they said were actual facts. 20 years. It's a huge amount. I think the example was like we what was the longest creature on in the world at that time, I think it was a jellyfish. And then it changed three or four times up to modern day. And now there's something they've discovered that is is the most uncommon, complex community of organisms, which actually creates one creature. unbelievably large. So even facts that are agreed facts, but everybody change, they have a timestamp, don't they? They do. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, was this topic? Did it was this topic caused by any event? At work? Peter? We don't have to we don't have to get your your involved on. I don't need counseling. No, it wasn't. No, it really wasn't it. It was really it really was our if you like, I was reflecting after the event about that, you know, six people stood on stage six people presented. And, and we're all on the edge of of this particular topic, because it's so complex in many ways. And it's so challenging in so many ways, and it's moving so quickly. And I just didn't reflect on that. Actually. It feels like, you know, that this kind of evidence based decision making in life and in business, is it reducing? And perhaps we are relying too much on uninformed opinions as opposed to well, it's great, you know, it's the Virgo in me coming out. I mean, so let me sort of double down on your danger of uninformed opinions. If you overlay Charisma on uninformed opinions, yes. So you're in a world where it's complicated, right? And you know, okay, we want Listen, we want to learn, we want to be respectful, we want to be curious. And yet, it's complicated. And you know, there's not a lot of time in this world, you have other things you have to do with work and with home. And so complicated things get presented in a way that is perhaps unknown to you. overlay on that someone that has a sort of a charismatic, evangelical approach to the way they communicate, it's very compelling, I think, for people to say, I actually don't understand the argument, I haven't got time or the energy to look into it. So I'm going to trust what you say, is correct. Because I think your, your, I like you, or I think you're compelling or you make me laugh, or there's something about you, that actually, you can make that decision for me. And I'm going to trust you to do that. And so suddenly, you've got, you've got a movement, whether that's a religious movement, or political movement. And the responsibility associated with that charismatic individual that is suddenly gifted with with with all this acceptance, from people who haven't got the energy, or the enthusiasm, or maybe even the intellect to go into the topic is huge. And I and I suppose I'm straying into a political field here, but I think that I'm holding back, I think, well, I just think that's quite dangerous, actually. Because, especially with the way we communicate today, you know, there's a, again, I'm not making a political point. But you know, there has been a predominance of actors taking political office in in more recent times. And you can see why because, you know, television has become an important mechanism by which people communicate message messages. Many of the successful politicians were compelling, because they could sum up complicated things in simple ways that people it made, it made things easy for people to understand that, of course, we know simplifying complex things is to ignore all the trade offs that are implied by that simplification. And so I think, you know, I think perhaps we do look at the the charismatic simplification from our leaders. And you're at risk there, because you're giving free rein, perhaps to individuals that actually may know more known know more about it than you are, but they've got power. And yeah, well, I think, you know, this is this is the world of if you like the snake oil salesman, if you've got someone who is you say, incredibly corrupt, charismatic, and, you know, you know, has that presence, then, you know, people will believe what they say, and you know, that, yeah, that could take us that could take us all lots of Heidi, I think I mean, I don't want to summarize too early for you, but I mean, it's active listening, it's critical thinking. And then if you get down to the point, and it's been curious, I think that helps. But at the end of the day, if you haven't got time for that, or you just haven't got the energy for that, I think, just check how what's being said, sits with your values, because we've talked about the importance of values in the past, haven't we, which is about the how do you? How do you sit comfortably in the world, and in the absence of the facts, you're gonna have a gut reaction to what people say? And I think if you have to make a decision on what they're saying, you know, do those three things. And then if, if you haven't got the time or energy, or that's inconclusive, see how it fits with with your values, and respond in a values based way? That's, that's what I would say. That's what I think that's a good summary. And I think, you know, for me, at least, you know, to the world of you know, I think I touched on it earlier on, you know, it is about ethical leadership, and perhaps in the stuff that we do is that we do our very best to challenge ourselves, but also our very best to validate anything that then leads us to make some decisions or decisions are often do impact people in one way, shape or form. So what's interesting is, is it Yes, that's right. But But I think part of that practice is about transparency, isn't it? And it's not about burdening people with everything that you know about the topic that's caused you to come to that decision, but, but being a bit more open about the thought process as to why you've come down one way or another. This is from a business leadership perspective, I think that's very helpful. Because at the end of the day, people could say, Look, I don't agree with that. But I actually understand why you say that. And, you know, I think you're wrong here and here, but I can see if you believe that, then I can see why you've made that decision. I think that helps. I think it helps with acceptance. You know, we talk about transformation a lot. I think on transformation topics. It's important you're transparent, for for the reasons you're going through the transformation and what you're hoping to get out of it. People can disbelieve it, but at least if they have an understanding of where it's come from. And then they've got a foothold to engage if they choose. So I think transparency is important with in the business leadership point of view. And hopefully, we're not spouting uninformed opinions. I think that's to say, we've been doing this podcast for a year and a half. And I have a horrible feeling that that is exactly what we've been doing for the last 18 months. But there we go. Whoa, yeah, we've managed to pull on a few readers or listeners on the way rather than listeners rather than readers. Yeah, I'm going to wrap up here, I think. close with a quote from John F. Kennedy. charismatic leader, current very charismatic leader yet. John said, Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. Yeah, but there you go. I think I think John and I agree with each other on that point. Absolutely. I thought. Thank you very much. It's been it's been an interesting one. Yeah, no, it's good one. I have to say there's a similarity between this one and your last one, which makes me wonder whether, you know, we actually should keep going with the counseling because. Okay, I try and be really radical next time around, but, obviously, but yeah, we're getting together to talk about Sweden in a few weeks on me. We are and looking forward. If anyone who's listening to this would be interested to give us some topics to mull over, we'd be happy to get your suggestions. So yeah, just send it out to www screen of despair.com I think isn't up to this. Very good. Well done. Yeah. Okay. Good stuff. Oh, yeah. All right. Thanks. Bye, bye. You've been listening to usual podcast from David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. More information can be found at WWW dot squid of despair.com.