Squid #21 - Personal Branding

In which David (aka DAS) and Peter (aka The Lazy Project Manager and now also aka Pedro) explore the value and purpose of evolving a personal brand

Along with stories of branding successes the dynamic duo (think the Ant and Dec of the business world) consider how anyone can invest in their own brand and what this can offer to them in their business and personal life

So, Squid of Despair Episode 21 - a new and improved podcast? Up to you to decide

Spoiler alert - episode concludes with Peter receiving quite a shock from DAS (listeners of a nervous disposition please be warned)

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the squid of despair, unscripted musings on business life leadership, creativity, transformation, and all the myriad of other work life events that get in the way of good night's sleep. Hosted by David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. Hello, Peter, how are you? I'm okay. I'm okay. He's busy. Busy work, isn't it? It is it is. But I understand you've got a new book coming out, Peter. I get a new book up. Yes, a new one. I've got a new old book. And I'm not supposed to be talking about it yet. All right. All right. Well, we can we can say it's kind of taking the lazy project managers up next level. That's what it's about. Really. And yeah, I'm very excited about the the old, the old beast the old war horse is gonna live on. Didn't do that could be improved. Peter, that's an extraordinary concept. Oh, you say that? We have ag was washing powder back in the old days when it has been new and improved for many generations. Really? What you're talking about dads here? Well, to be fair, I did use used as well my mom did as well, it does, etc. It's an old classic not making any links with myself, of course. But there we go. I spelled it is a Z or Z, or the world. This, which is universal. So under the new format, it's my turn again, isn't it? Peter to come up with the theories? Yeah, this? I don't know. I clearly had one too many drinks at Christmas to agree to all this. But yeah, it's all yours. No, I'm enjoying it. And yeah, so now I've got one, which I think will be interesting. And I know you know something about it as well. So it's something that something's gonna go for them. So what's the square that the day does? So today, Peter, I'd like to talk about personal brands. You know, I want to I want to talk about, you know, what is it? What's the point? Why would you do it? And how would you do it? And I was minded to, to, as I was reflecting is we as an organization have been through a rebranding recently, which has been a fabulous project, I think. And I really liked the way it's landed. And it's made me think about this from a personal perspective. And also, you know, in parallel, I don't know whether you saw this, but last week, Transport for London, rebranded the over Line train line that goes round London, I did see that I got quite grumpy to start with, because I thought they've rebranded the underground, which will be no, no, but I realized it was overland, I don't use that very much. So it's fine. Yes. And so you know, I don't know if our listeners have seen this. But basically, there's sort of six overland lines now in London, which used to be sort of one big orange sort of line going around. So this is not the tube lines as the ones on the on the top. You know, they've been given really interesting names like lioness and Windrush and Weaver, and suffragettes. And so, you know, linking the line, the geography of the line with something in that, in that region, that was significant. And so it's, you know, from my reading on the matter, to make it easier to negotiate, and also to tell a story about that part of London, and titled The combination of those two things coming together made me think about well, okay, so why don't we talk about personal branding? And the reason I said, you know, something about it is, I believe you wrote a book about branding many, many years ago. I did. Well, I wrote a book about Project branding. In Yeah, when was that? 2014? Two, so I'm proud of that book. It's the biggest divorce ever gotten one of the lowest selling books I've ever had. So I still technically the publisher some money on that one. But hey, maybe there's a help promote it a little bit more. It sounds like I think you've just over shared their piece of I think they're not getting their money back. That's not a good one. It is a good one. Because, I mean, I reflect and it was only a couple of weeks ago, I was at one of my team meetings. And I was trying to convey to them the value of an identity if you like, whether your brand or not, it's but it's a clear identity. So they were doing x which was getting a number of people together to talk about why. And I kept saying to them, you know, what's the deliverable what how are we going to talk about the deliverable and they just couldn't get there? Well, no, we're gonna we're gonna get all these people together and we're going to talk about this and we're gonna resolve problems it's gonna be so much better but what is going to be so much better how to, how do we well, two words, do we talk to people about this and reference it and they finally got him? We came up with a two word name for what it is they're deliver Free. But it was a kind of a like a hurdle to get over for that. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I'm going to try and define this a bit as we as we often do on these topics, because I think it means different things to different people. I don't want to be I'm not a marketeer, I know you are paid about I don't want to be too technical. But you know, what's the point of a brand or a personal brand, I think a personal brand is often confused as reputation. I think those two things are sometimes used in the same way, but they're not the same. You know, and I think brand is about intention, it's about how you want others to see you. It's not your reputation, it's not how you are seen, or how you want others to see you. And so, you know, going back to our rebranding as an organization, you know, because we had a pedigree of two companies that have come together, and we've chosen one of those names. And we've, we've used the opportunity to really express our values our purpose, or direction, or ambition. And in fact, a new nouns come out of it. You know, we're all day makers now, aren't we? And so, then what was used to that, but yeah, we are. Yeah, I mean, it's a funny word. But what's clever about it, it's, it's a made up word. And because as a made up word, it can mean anything we say it means. And that's what I think brands are personal brands, you can you can represent yourself in any way you like, now that aren't going to come on to the challenges with that. But it is about how you want other people to see you. And I think that's an important construct, within work and within life, actually. And so we should perhaps, I like to give you an example later on, if you like, no, go for it. Pete if you if you want to, you know the whole thing for me. Yeah, you and thanks for your sharing. Most of our listeners will know that my complicated life history. Well, they don't know all of that. But what they know enough that is they can still recognize it's been complicated. And and so effectively right now, with my good lady, wife, we have a very large family of nine children and many, many grandchildren, etc. And so I was hypersensitive to the fact that the when the grandchildren came along, they all came along on my wife's side of the family started my little bit slow off the ground and haven't got there yet, but they will eventually. And like they sort of saying you're your granddad, well, am I grounded? Am I a fish, I'm kind of have that role. But actually there are the real granddad's out there as well. Because you this background is just as complicated as mine. In the end, the children solve this for me, because they just they don't call me Peter. I don't call me granddad, grandchildren, Nicola, they call me Pedro, which is a name way for the beginning. Like, that's not my name, because my mom always taught me to say my name properly and in full. But I have this, if you like this identifier of Pedro, universal and doesn't tread on anyone's toes or anything like that, or crossing the boundaries. It kind of works, I didn't realize until well down the path that this was in place that this actually had this sort of value. It's a great example. Because, you know, Pedro exists as a persona for your family. And it imbues everything, you know, that you want it to be. And so, you know, the why of personal branding, you know, some of the things I think, are the reason why personal branding is important, it's about, I think it's about, it's about? Well, I think it's important to be authentic, you know, I think it's important to for the brand to be trustworthy, I think it's important to be credible. So I think all of these things, you know, the purpose for me is about intention about how you want others to see you, but if it's not authentic, and trustworthy, and brings credibility, then it's something else. It's not, it's not a brand that's going to be sustainable, because, you know, it won't, it won't be really won't be you and so, I'm sure you work very, very hard to be Pedro to your extended family, Peter, and that's probably why the name stuck. You know, I'm a great lover of nicknames. I think a nickname was a wonderful thing when someone earns a nickname, and it's the brand you know, it's how they're seen by other people. He's often where people don't like nicknames because I like it because it's also Asians. So yes, I'm sort of visualizing a sort of a sleepy Mexican with a sombrero on actually but there we go. That's if that's your Patreon. That's your Pedro. So anyways, describe me like that. So would so you have a you have a marketing bent speed, If I could describe it like that, you know, you talked about the power of brands on projects. So, you know, why do you think personal branding is important? Or do you think Sorry, do you think personal branding is important? Yes, I think I think I think it is important and in fact, I've worked with a couple of people kind of coaching in this area because they they wanted to, they wanted to elevate their or the awareness of what they were with people. Now these were both in work environments to be fair. And, and really it was about, you know, in both cases, they were doing good solid jobs, they've had good solid successes, they were both have an appetite for progression, but they felt they weren't getting the attention from the people that could make that progression possible. And so, you know, a lot of the conversation was effectively around about their kind of, you know, their presence in their, in this case, their internal marketplace inside the organizations. And, you know, the brand was very much around the perception other people had of them. So, you know, I think it helped a little in both cases, not not really a huge amount, but I think it was making them think about it that actually, you are a package in work in and in your personal life as well. And it is an ESA, it's not about how people perceive you, but it is about the perception that lands, I think of you know, I do think no, I'm sorry, I said that I misspoke. I do think it's about it's about the story. I've heard. Yeah, I think it's the intention of portraying yourself in a way that you want others to see you. Now, I did go on to say that I you know, I think it's important to be authentic and trustworthy, be credible. But, you know, we're a complicated, multi faceted beings, aren't we? And so, I think the personal branding is about how, you know, what elements of you do you want to portray to people, and there's a sort of a, you know, it sounds a bit self serving this, doesn't it and perhaps manipulative, but I think it's about trying to, you know, be the best version of yourself in the environment in which you find yourself in order to take advantage of opportunities, perhaps in order to serve your community and your, your organization. And, and so I think it's, you know, it's about taking control over your destiny in a way that interacts with other people. And this is a tricky thing, of course, because, you know, if you believe everyone's self serving, this is a dangerous route. But if you believe, actually, ultimately, the people are not saboteurs. And you actually want to travel in hope. I think personal branding is a shortcut for people to understand how you choose to contribute. And I think people might argue about that, but I think that's what I believe, if that makes sense. I think you can, I mean, we can pop back into the, you know, the world that probably most people understand we start off we started off with so powders didn't we, and there's there's one brand out there. But you know, the the most successful products out there have absolute brand loyalty, and we can talk about, you know, whether it's Apple or the the other sort of technologies, you can almost life assign yourself to, you know, we are very passionate on all sides. But, you know, it's, you know, many products have attempted to have a brand identification, and but they haven't achieved that true case of brand loyalty. And I think in your personal life, it is about people, knowing you understanding you and having a similar sort of loyalty to you, or vice versa, I suppose, in in what you are and what you what you represent. And you know, whether that be your, your mannerisms, your culture, your style, or your quality of what you do, or your engagement or your empathy or whatever it may be. I think you didn't mention my humor there. Peter, are you sorry? Absolutely, of course. And yeah, I think that's that in a personal world, that's that's kind of what brand loyalty is. Yeah. And when you see it happening, it's quite magical, isn't it? I mean, you know, it, it drives momentum, doesn't it? It drives collaboration. I think it shortcuts conversations around purpose. Should we should we sort of jump into how to do it? Because, you know, I think it is a constructed thing. Whilst you know, I think it's important to be authentic, trustworthy and credible. But you know, you are choosing how you present yourself to other people, I think, as in terms of your personal brand. And so, should we go through a list of because I know you like this, again, I love no yoga. You know, I love your list, because you didn't it gives me time to think about something else. I think you know, and this sounds Well, it sounds a bit that people may struggle with this as a technique, but I think it's important to to go through this because I think it helps you understand where to place your efforts and your bets actually. So I think it's something to do with you know, first of all, You know, checking in with what drives you? Or what you're curious about, or what you want to do. I mean, that might sound obvious, but it's, it's sort of it's actually not, it's related to the values conversation I think we've had previously, which is about, you know, what are your values. And I think your brand needs to articulate your values, because that's where the authenticity and the credibility comes from. So I think you've then got it, you know, you've got a, you've got a manifestation of you where your values are held front and center, in terms of what you do. I think there is something about aligning that with your organizational goals. So if, if one of the reasons for doing this is to be, you know, is to try and to be the best version of yourself, you can be in an organization to take advantage of opportunities for your own career aspirations and growth, and you're curious, aligning those, you know, that focus with your organization's focus, I think it's always a good thing. You know, you know, I always love it, when people come to me with a suggestion about how they can help, how they can improve things, what they can contribute, it shows a couple of things to me, it shows sort of ambition and shows intention. And it's helpful, right? So I think, of course, aligning with your organization goals, I think is a good way to think about how to apply your values or your brand, I think then you do need to be mechanistic. And you know, I know you've done this in the past, I've done this, I think you need a stakeholder map. It's like a complicated sales cycle, isn't it? You know, I think a brand has no value, your personal brand has no value, if no one knows about it, you know, you know, my wife's an artist, and, you know, if an artist creates work in their studio and never displays it, you know, you could argue that's not art, because it's not been, it's not been hung, it's not been seen. And so I think a brand only lives in the way it's received by other people. And so that requires you to be considered about, who do I need to expose my brand to? So I think there's a stakeholder map that is helpful here. Okay, I agree with that. Although, if a tree falls over the forest there for a moment, that's right, I was gonna go there, but I think I've done that already. And then, you know, it's almost at that point, you know, then reach out to people and see how your competencies may help them. And I think it's an I think, you know, with with, with personal brands, it's very useful to tell stories. I mean, if you look at the rebranding of those overland lines in London, you know, they're telling stories of the diverse communities in London, which is where the names came from. And so the branding here is about trying to explain the power of the diversity of London and where, where the populations have come from, you know, I think that's, that's true for some of the brands. And so I think that also, when you think about the rebranding, we went through, we've been telling stories, Henry about what it means to be a day maker. And so I think storytelling around brands, they're synonymous to me, about helping people understand, you know, the contributions, you can you can contribute to and then, and then I think it's about doing something, it's about aligning all these attentions with, with actions, you know, create, you know, create, create, create impact through through your, your brand, you do something with it, live your brand, you know, be a be a sort of a living, personification of all those attributes that you want people to consider you to be fine. You know, I think ultimately, then you get other people telling your story, you get other people representing you, you so your brand becomes a thing, you know, it becomes known. And then actually, right at the end of all of that, I think there's legacy, I think, you know, a brand ultimately if lived with purpose, and is expressed through community ends his legacy and so as individuals, a lot of people, that's why they brand themselves because they want to make a difference and they want to have a legacy at the end of the project the work life or Yeah, I think I think that's true. I mean, I think I agree with everything you said there, but I think I mean, the other the other key to successful brand is at the end of it, it is summated in a the simplicity of the message, you know, it's it's a bit like you I mean you're you know, you're a bit like Madonna and so forth you're known by that as one name does. And you know, you're the kind of you know, the sublime or on that one or sub heading these mostly harmless and in a people like you mostly harmless, so after 35 years of working together that's the best description you've got my brand is it most aligned but you know, you know, does does does represent something in the in the organizations you work for, so, you know, you have to deal with that as well. It's sort of fun and surprisingly good. So this is the to podcast, podcast hosts will continue to. Increasingly, this has got late, I think I can see a party game coming on here now. You know, it's what's your brand and what's your personal slogan? And of course, what's your walk on music? I mean, this has got legs page, I think. Well, you know, I know you were sitting next to me. So we talked about the rebranding, we had a big kickoff recently, and we had some sort of fighter pilots caving in Top Gun guys, didn't we? And part of that was their little app, which is kind of fun. You put in your name, and it came up with your, what they call it your like, your employee name, or whatever it is like, yeah, yeah. There was a proper name. Callsign callsign. So yeah, and what was yours? Do you remember? Mine was goose, your goose? Yeah. Okay. Very good. Yes. Lucky that one was Teflon, which we all liked. I mean, I was intrigued why I came off as goose after the attributes I put in, I can completely understand why you came up with. Yeah, there we go. No, I think. All right. So let's, let's explore this one, let's say there is a way to enhance your personal brand. But people don't do that. I think that I think the last ones than the unknown ones, or the or the unnoticed ones, as a result of that. Not at all, not at all. I mean, that, you know, I believe and I and I trust that, you know, there are hard working people in the organization that choose not to put themselves forward for reasons of well, there's lots of reasons why people don't that do that. And I, you know, I think good organizations, look after their people in a way where their contributions become self evident. I suppose, this is about just suggesting that you can you can take that have more control over your career, you know, you can, you can, especially perhaps if your work, life is not going well for you, you know, you don't have to be a victim, you there are things you can do in order to maneuver yourself out of difficult, you know, unfulfilling assignments. And personal branding, I think is a tool that should be in everyone's kitbag. And people, you know, may not be bothered, they may not feel that they've got the skills to do it. But actually, I think it's more about understanding your own motivations, and then thinking about how does that apply to the situation you're in, and then communicating them such that, you know, we've talked about this before, you know, if you're, if you're optimistic about the possibility of changing something, it's much more likely to happen, than if you're sitting there saying, I'm so unlucky, this is never going to work for me, I never get a break, you know, that sort of that sort of negative attitude to things when things go wrong, or when things change is a self fulfilling prophecy? I suspect. And I think branding is just a very, it's a tool. It's a tool set, I think that allows people to position themselves positively in a way that I believe is a greater chance of them fulfilling their, their ambitions. I mean, you have you it's a two way process, it's a communication thing it has to be received has to be heard. But, you know, there's, there's, there's the branch in the forest falling, and no one hears it thing. You know, if it's not, if it's not spoken, it's not heard. And so I think it's a it's something that, that people who have an interest in progressing their career through their own sort of activity. You know, what it's worth looking at? I was I think it was intentional, not, you know, effectively, I created a fairly popular brand within the project management world that was by combination of insulting you in luck. I can't take all the credit pizza, but you got to take all the credit, although you can help write the foreword, and you can claim as much as you like, for the new advance later, pretty manageable. Anyway, you know, in my personal life, the old Petro thing came about, which was actually I guess I latched on to because it resolved a little bit of conflict. I had a time where I sat in this family and what my role was, yeah, yeah, no, I, I think it's it. I think it's, I think it's a thing. I think it's important. I don't want to overplay it. I mean, I think it probably got a bit of a bad rap. It feels a bit manipulative, but I don't see it that way. I see it as a positive expression of your interests and your hopes and, and your willingness to contribute to a community, you know, a work environment, a social environment, and by doing that, you're more likely, I think, to be successful than if you don't do it, I would say, Yeah, great. How about this, here's an idea for you because I've just done a little one of my inspirational thoughts. You know, you're always asking me what then you get your your team together for an icebreaker. How about the next icebreaker is what is your brand? Yeah, no, I think that's, that'll be great for but so what's the rules of this icebreaker? What are you? Five seconds ago now what rules are covered by that? I mean, come up with half formed ideas, you know, that's never gonna go anywhere I need you to, you know, give birth to this idea completely. Okay. I need a bit more gestation of your Okay, yeah, no, we'll do that we'll do it. We'll do that next meeting, we'll do a overhand What is your first, but I think you do need guidelines like, you know, cream or something like that. Right. Yeah. We'll work on that whenever that next meeting is alright, so there you go. I mean, it was just a short short one today to start personal branding. What's the point? I think we've talked about that I think we think it's important. We talked about why you do it, and and some of the pitfalls, if you're not authentic, and then how to do it. And there were some tips and trips there, which I think had just come out of a lifetime of seeing people do this and a little bit of myself and you know, you you have the master of, of writing about brands when it comes to projects. And of course, we now know about Pedro, which is indeed worthy. I've given them a few more next month listeners will really design your own logo. Actually, next month, I've had I do have a proposal, which I don't want to cause you to go more want to spoil the surprise for our listeners, but I'm gonna invite a guest Are you Are you bored with me? Not at all, Peter? Not at all. But this guest has got something very particular to say. And I would like them to say and I just think it might be fun. Okay, I try not to get jealous. No, don't get jealous. You'll be there as well. All right, perfect. Well, I think on that bombshell. Very good. Thank you, Peter. Appreciate your contribution as always. Thank you. It is by. You've been listening to an unusual podcast from David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor. More information can be found at WWW dot squid of despair.com.