Squid #23 - Getting your Mojo back

In which DAS shares some personal experiences around losing your mojo and both Peter and DAS share some (possibly) new words with their listeners on descriptions of the human condition.

It is all about recognition of entering the state of languishment, finding an antidote to this state,  and presenting ideas to re-connect and recover.

There is a disclaimer about DAS and Peter learns all about Ikigai. 

Plus Squid of Despair is in the top 10 Squid related podcasts!

Transcript

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Welcome to the squid of despair, unscripted musings on business life leadership, creativity, transformation, and all the myriad of other work life events that get in the way of good night's sleep, hosted by David kneeling Smith and Peter Taylor. Well, here we are again. Hello, Peter. How are you? I'm good. I've just got just got back from sunny Florida. So I'm feeling pretty positive. And I know you'd like to talk about my my latest book. Well, actually, my last book has just been through to the finals of a business book of the year awards. I'm, I'm getting them in early because I know that sounds sounds like a black tie event. Peter, can I come? Yeah, absolutely. I'll book a table for 202 places on a table for a better way. Was that the book that had a really good chapter on change management in it was written by yourself. So hold on for that. Yeah, well, no, congratulations. When When's that going to be made public? Where it's public now. And then finally, the, the actual awards evening is September the 19th, things like that. Well, I don't want to top your story. But you know, I like topping your stories with you. And I've got something else to celebrate. And actually, I did ping you this earlier. This this year that we've made the top 10 podcasts on squids into we found ourselves a niche category where we know top 10 It's, it's a great list, actually. So we are in the top 10 of podcasts on squid. And that includes squid game, which actually is at number one. A Treatise on cephalopods, which is number two, and I think we come in at number four. So well done. Oh, squids are us. Fantastic. Well, congratulations to both of us. Yeah. Well, so as the as these are running on at the moment, so I get to choose again, don't I do okay, here we go view because again, it's usually as an invoice that what is squid Have a good day? Well, you remember last time we did sisu, which was a non English word to sort of describe great determination and resilience. And I really liked that theme that there are non English words out there that describe sort of the quintessential agony of the human condition in a way that's better than the English words. So I've continuing that theme. And sounds like there could be a book in this. I'm hoping doesn't have. So so. So this week, I'm going for Mojo. And you will know the phrase, Peter about losing your mojo finding your mojo, and I want to tell you a little personal story, because I, I, as you know, I wasn't very well, last month, and you know, I'm, I'm blessed with good health and, and, you know, I'm fine now. But I sort of lost my mojo for a week and, and it made me reflect on how important that was for me. And I thought then for everybody, so I did a little bit of reading on it. And it's a fascinating subject. And so, I wanted to talk about Mojo today. All right, okay, I can support you on that. And it's interesting, because those words we use it what not all the time, usually quite a lot. But it's a funny word, and it Mojo, it is funny and the origin. I will I will give you some techniques before we go there. Right? I also, you know, thinking about this, I came up with some other words that actually I wouldn't mind doing as well. And so do you have any favorites? Or any non English words that describe something quintessential about being human? That's better than the English phrase if you have any favorites, while your taxi doesn't count, does it? So? I do actually, I think we talked a while back actually, because there's a lovely, really short is a game ready, but it's hyg G hood. Oh, yeah. Isn't it? Yes, it means cozy, contented mood brought on by kind of comfort conviviality. And just though it's kind of like a social world. Yeah. Yeah. The cars are really interesting for stimulating conversation and yeah, so that's, that's definitely one word I put out there. I like that one. And, in fact, the Welsh one says, you know, I, my, my daughter knows Welsh. And so clutch in Welsh means a hug, but it also can be in a sort of a cozy room as well. So I'm wondering whether that's the Welsh version. Yeah, but what I mean was, I love the wibbly wobbly for jelly and poverty being for microwave. Well, you know, the German language is fantastic for this sort of thing. You know, we've talked about despite, you know, what my favorite, I think is Chardon Friday, you know, the, the, which is the german phrase for taking pleasure from the misfortune of a friend. I think the reason he was poor Because I feel positive Yeah, no, I like that one. One of the other ones I liked, which is the French ever sort of they often overlay they ever offer an offer lay there aphorisms with a sort of a philosophical bent, and it's forgive my pronunciation for any French listeners, but there's less breed a Skelly A, which is basically translates as the spirit of the stairs. And what it means is to leave a conversation thinking about everything you should have said, which were shy. I really like because, you know, that happens frequently to me. I like that. And your question for you that question. How many times you've we finished recording the podcast? And then afterwards you said that? Yeah, exactly. Well, that's less free that Skelly a that's what's going on there. Okay. And you know, how the Dutch Love Idioms and you know, we you and I have worked with some fantastic Dutch colleagues and friends. But have you noticed how often monkeys come up? You know, they haven't. Fantastic very ask any Dutch people what monkey up the sleeve means and it is wonderful. The one my particular favorite, though, is the monkey in the post room. So had some Dutch colleagues that yes, and it's a Dutch phrase. And I'm not going to attempt that on sort of live podcast, but what it means when when you get into a situation and it's a complete chaotic mess, they say it's like a monkey in the post room. I've always liked that one. Oh, we share one. Some of you won't take me in the post in the morning or some strange phrase. Well, yeah, but yeah, monkeys. So back to monkeys. Okay. Yeah. There's a lot of monkeys anyway. There's one there's one in the brand new lazy project manager actually. Oh, the brand new project manager Peter, is this a plug? Yeah, this is a plug for a yet to be finished book. Will it be finished very shortly. Out next year available, no book, good books, etc. In Swedish, and it's the phrases log on, or log on, or I don't try to get the Swedish accent word word word. I don't know. L A G O m sorry, every Swedish person out there. Okay. And we're using the book because it's about lazy project manager productive leaves in this. It means just the right amount, right? Balance moderation. So summary. There's going to be like, not too little, not too much. Just Right. Kind of like the Goldilocks. Yeah. Yeah. That's very good. You You probably needed a good introduction. A good preface for your new book that you Peter. You're plugging it you've done it already. And I've improved it. Oh, good. Well, you mean, chat? things about me. Thank you, Peter. Thank you for doing my homework. That's okay. Anyway, you will get through it. Are we gonna get on? Go on to Mojo so Mojo. So we know the phrase, finding your mode or losing your mojo. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an African word, actually, it comes from an African language, fu land. And it gained prominence in the southern US of states through the Creole language at the beginning of last century. And it really translates as personal magic or influence or, or, or power. And, you know, in common usage today, and it is it is used today. It's about it's all about, you know, being on your game, isn't it, having energy, having confidence, you know, you've you've got your mojo back, or you've found your mojo, but as I said, you know, earlier I, you know, I, I was unwell, I had a week of not feeling great. And I felt like I lost my mojo in the sense that I, you know, my enthusiasm was wasn't there. My optimism wasn't there. Everything looked a bit gray. I wasn't depressed. But it was very, it was a very unusual state for me. And so I think, you know, I reflected losing your mojo isn't comfortable. I didn't find it comfortable, you know, you have low energy, no excitement, no curiosity. It's like having an enthusiasm bypass in can't find motivation in the things that normally bring you happiness and joy. And I read around that, and I saw this great definition where it said that, you know, when you're on your game, and you found your mojo, you have all those positive attributes that I described. At the other end of that curve, there is depression, which you know, is something that afflicts many people and lots of people in their life dip in and out of depression. And that's, you know, it's a it's a thing and it's serious. And we talk a lot about that through the focus on mental health. I would say the premise was that losing your mojo actually puts you often in a mental state which they described as languishing and I like that because you know, you've got Mojo when you're on your game, you've got the, if you like, the level below that you're languishing, and and when you're languishing, you're not depressed, but you're not great. Everything looks a bit gray. Everything feels a bit hard work. And I saw that described actually as the neglected middle ground of mental health. So Depression is a thing we talk a lot about. But we don't talk much about languishing about that sort of state of inertia, when you just don't have that in an enthusiasm and glade reject that, like, it's an interesting word. I mean, I've actually I've had a couple of calls this week where we have, as groups, we've challenged words that we use the word about what they really mean. And language is a really, if you said to me, Peter described languishing, I would have probably given you some sort of definition along the lines of some kind of conscious decision. to luxuriate to Yes, Joy the moment. Yeah, you're thinking in a very positive, controlling way. You're thinking of the Sun lounges. You just come back from Florida. So you're thinking, some lounges and something with an umbrella in it, aren't you? Absolutely. I love my No, you're right. languishing has a positive connotation. When it's a relaxing activity, I wouldn't say there's a negative thing. So it was interesting, you put that forward. Yeah. And in fact, I have talked to a couple of people about it. And they've also had had an issue with that particular word. But okay, we might need to find another word for it. But I like the fact that we can label something that I feel I went through. And I think lots of people go through this. And I think the good news about languishing, perhaps as opposed to depression, is that there are very active steps you can take to stop languishing, no silver bullet, and we're all different. And we all have different triggers. And we have different passions and sensitivities. And there's not, this is not a prescriptive intervention here. But But I think there are things that you can do if you're languishing, if you accept my definition of languaging, that does improve mental health. And I think it's a case of finding the right one for you. So I thought we could go through I've got some lists for your beta. Excellent guy, lover list. I know you do. And so I got lots of lists for you. And, and I, and I want this to come across as sort of something that is it's sort of personally motivated, but I, I think it might resonate with people because I suspect it's, it's a state that people find themselves in periodically. And I want to be optimistic about the fact that you can get out of it. And there's some things you can do. And and the relevance to a business podcast is is the fact that I think this happens to people at work sometimes. You know, it's interesting, this this as sort of a bit of a more of a psychological flavor, isn't it this sort of despair, and I sort of wondered about that. But it touches on themes that we've covered before. So yes, square to despair. 22, we did sisu squares were 18, we did resilience 13. We did hope 12. We didn't impostor syndrome and eight, we did optimism. And four, we did fun at work. You remember that? And and actually, this touches all of those. So I thought I was onto something here, Peter is there's sort of a it's a human condition that we arrive at in our lives that actually we can exert positive control over by doing certain things. And so I thought that might be useful for some people. It might be interesting to talk about. Oh, yeah, clearly your mastermind subject is scripted. Podcast. 2022. Yeah, I'm a very, I'm your imagine you have a listener? Well, I did, I had to look that up. But I was I was I was, as I was sort of thinking about my notes. This I was thinking about, like, we talked about this before, when we talked about this before. So there we go. So you want my macro list. So we start with this other for discussion, I mean, are you going to cover I just want to see where we go with this, to give myself a chance to respond. But we're only going to cover, you know, presumably, one can naturally leave languishing through time and whatever other people you're talking about. If you like elevating yourself or resurrecting yourself out of the languishing state, I am I'm I'm, I'm suggesting that I don't know talk a little bit more about what it what it feels like to be in that state. But I'm, I'm gonna suggest that, once you're in that same for that sort of the macro level is is is connect with the situation you're in, then ways through it is I'm going to propose connecting with others, connecting with yourself and then connecting with the future you aspire to. And you can see from those sort of top level sort of signposts, we've talked about all of those before in different ways, but this is, this is as a result of losing my mojo finding my mojo again, and how did I do that? And I'm not proposing I'm special here, but having done a bit of research on it, I recognize that these are tried and tested techniques that have been helpful for other people too. Okay. All right, let's, let's start with this in connecting with the situation. So, you know, I think I think actually any sort of mental health healing or, or challenges you address starts with the recognition. So you know, you know how it's very famous than in in Alcoholics Anonymous. My understanding is they start many meetings is you know, my name is Joe, and I'm an alcoholic, you know, that sort of, it's got a famous phrasing, isn't it that they believe they used to use it. I don't know if they still use it. But do you? Have you heard of that for Peter? I haven't I love your clever. You're careful words around. I understand, I believe. No, no, I agree. And how true that actually is. But I mean, that's what used to be seen in films and television. Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, there's an acknowledgement there of the of the situation, or the problem, which allows and engagement with it. There are others. You know, I remember sort of when my kids were were younger, and they, they were tired and hungry, and we had the fight phrase in the family hangry, you know, so, the hangry I don't know if that's a phrase as prevalent, but we had that phrase. And actually, you know, it was helpful to talk to them about the fact that, you know, you're irritable, because you're hungry, you're not irritable, because you're irritable, and therefore, address the hunger and this will go away. Another example close to home, you know, when you whistling cues? Yeah, I know, it's because you're bored. And because you're bored, and you're whistling, I don't get irritated anymore. But you know, I had to work through that. We wait, we're going to travel again soon. So I think it's a, it's a habit of naming your feelings, allows you to understand a bit better and give you a bit of a reflective distance. So I think the first thing is sort of spot the fact you languishing and tell yourself, okay, I'm out languishing, what's going to happen now, and then I think the next stage is sort of accepted, really, you know, you see people go through the various stages of denial or grief or surprise, rage. None of that changes anything, actually, it might be necessary to go through it. But I think, with a lot of mental health stuff, what you focus on tends to grow, you think of it as a door, you've accepted it, you walk through it. And actually, you know, I recognize this is uncomfortable to have to, you have to deal with it. And we talked about this junior resilience podcast, you know, a lot of people draw on stoicism, don't they, when they're at a tough time to prevail. Your favorite you remember Julian of Norwich, you're very, you're very taken with her. Some people. Some people use logic when they're under pressure. But I think the, the heart of stoicism, which is sort of I think a technique lots of people use it is one I use myself is it's the premise that you know, external things are not the problem. It's your response to them. That's the problem. And so it's sort of trying to use logic to defuse the emotion in a situation. You can't control events, but you can control your reaction to events. And so making yourself rationally look at this situation are in it's hard, but I think it really helps. And so I think, you know, stoicism tends to break down things into it breaks down the situation, two elements that sort of you can focus on, so the emotional ends disappear. So I think that's probably the second thing, I would say, sort of accept the situation. And by the way, sort of a health warning here, I think, languishing can lead to depression, despair. And I think if people feel like that they're at that point, you know, with their work, or their relationship, you know, get help. This isn't, you know, this is this is I'm not qualified to sort of go here, really. So I just want to recognize the fact that I'm talking about that middle ground where I think we actually as individuals can do something about it. But I think a lot of people do suffer in other ways, which needs help, and, you know, some situations are toxic, and you just need to leave them. So I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the milder form of dysfunctionality that we all found ourselves landing in every now and again, does that make sense? We'll make sure there is a very clear disclaimer in the show notes. Don't worry, we're gonna go back to recognition them before you continue. Yeah, I guess it's a business podcast. So but yeah, I think we've both seen it in the past. But you know, this kind of languishing or used I get bored about things but the danger in business particular thing is if you're doing the same thing repeatedly. And that's not what normally excites you that we share, we say that to enter the languishing state is quite a dangerous thing. Career wise, obviously. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can you can just become overly comfortable in it? I mean, you know, it's not my word love arm, or leg arm or whatever. It's not that it's not hookah. It's not that comfortability. It's a kind of unproductive state. Yeah, definitely. When I think it also can lead you not, you know, not bothering not trying losing effort. So I think, you know, your performance can go down for work. We're talking about from a work perspective, you don't engage with people so much, because you're not interested so much. No, I think it's a slippery slope. Absolutely. You know, that's, you know, it's sort of languaging describes it, you know, there's no ebbs and flows in the day, you know, there's no color, you sort of multitasking without concentrating anything on particular your, your sort of, I think your, your sort of your responses to things get dulled, don't they? Because it's all of this perpetuates that languishing state and I remember actually, when locked down started and you you developed, practiced in your personal practice of going out and working in a caster, you know, for half a day or going for a walk. And I think that was that taught me something actually is something about building a rhythm and a dynamic to your day, you know, building variety. And I think if you expose yourself during the day to sort of small positives and small negatives, you sort of somehow increase, you know, the zest of the everyday experience. Thank you. It's not all I created projects for effective. I mean, obviously, I did the book. We weren't talking about any more about books. But that was one project. The other project I did was, I just printed out a huge map of the whole Sandhurst area. And I walked every street path and rode in Sandhurst, over a series about three weeks thinking was, and realized how much how much distance there was. But for me, it was like creating a project that had a beginning. I think that's what that's what excites me in life. Really? Yeah, no, that's great. I hold on to that thought, I'm going to come back to that about recognizing your passions. Okay. So this is about sort of just talking about connecting to the situation and be present with what you're doing. And you're gonna love this, because these are like, these are idiotic sentences, but I really liked them. So you know, when you're working, work, when you when you're resting, rest, when you're playing with the kids, play with the kids. You know, it's about the focus on what you're doing. And we talked about sort of the mindfulness of actually being engaged in the moment. But I think if you find yourself languishing, I think these are great ways to start thinking about how you can move on by actually focusing on what you're doing in create color in your in your day, I would say. I observed our day to day that I don't actually know what my neighbor does for a living. Or I might say which neighbor is either but he was out there playing with his two kids with a headpiece on a call. He's kind of he was nice. He was wasn't present in Ireland situation. Yeah, yeah. And we've all done it, of course, because of our time pressures. But it's so interesting. When you sometimes step back and look at yourself, you think, why on earth did I do that? But anyway, so that was sort of point one connect with the situation. Point to, I'm going to suggest connecting with others is very helpful. When you're languishing. In this may be my experience, but I paradoxically, I think, to increase your own happiness, making someone else happy. Perhaps by practicing small acts of kindness is very therapeutic. And I don't know whether that's just me. And large acts of kindness clearly work, you know, altruistic acts, charitable giving, spending your talents on something you're passionate about, that's all very important for lots of people and very worthy, but I also think small acts of kindness are a really good, and, you know, silly things like, you know, letting people out in a queue of traffic, you know, making time to chat with someone, when actually you don't have time off for a compliment, you know, grab a coffee, um, you do that all the time, Peter, so you're very good at this. All the time. I do. Lots and lots of work as well. But I think we're social animals. And I think making connections with someone we you know, we know, we don't know, especially when schedules are full. I think it's very helpful, I think, you know, creating connections, personal connection, new friends, I think that's a very strong antidote to languishing, I don't know whether you'd agree with that. Yes. Okay. So there we go. We've got connection with a situation connecting with others. Next one would be, I would say, connect with yourself. And that's where you are going with that previous statement, you know, stop and think, what makes me pick what's your passions? What's your values? What's your interests? How do you spend more of your time doing this? And another Something I've noticed with my sort of coaching past, I often see up or not often, I periodically see people trying to live to someone else's standards, or live someone else's, live someone else's life for them, if that makes sense. I think that's a major source of languaging for some people, where they don't actually living their own life, I think, I think sometimes your language because you're not living your life, you're living someone else's life, or you're living the life of the people you're working for, perhaps, and I think you need to have a look at that because I think that's a major cause of frustration and languaging. And I would say the way you do that is there's a little technique and you have to like this because this is semi numerical data. And this is a coaching trip and this the things you enjoy doing, you know, that could be from reading to, you know, whitewater rafting, whatever it is, write them, you know, so I really like doing that. I quite like doing that. I like I like doing that less, but I still like doing it, score, how present they are in your life, score how able you are to do them, and then figure out what you need to do to change things around. So you're doing more of what gives you your passion, and talent. And then And then, you know, then challenge yourself to do something new. And I think, you know, by connecting with yourself in those different ways, I think that's a strong path out of language. And if you find yourself there, I think that's what constructive. Yeah. Are you busy making it? So? I'd love the course or I love to see your list, you know, one to 10. Of what? What brings you joy? I? I think I know, number one, but you know, yeah. That's right. So there we go. So connecting with the situation, connecting with others connecting with yourself, and then sort of to pull it together? How do you sort of connect with the future you want for yourself? And we've talked a little bit about this in the past, but I think it's about you know, thinking about the goals you're excited about? I think nothing gives. Again, this might be personal, but I think nothing is more meaning than connecting to a larger goal. We see that at work, don't we? You know, that we talk about BX at work. But I think from a personal point of view, I think there are big goals that are very invigorating. And we talked to the past about, you know, think about that. I mean, this is very big, it doesn't have to be big, but you think legacy, think what do you want the kids to remember you for what positive changes you want to make to the organization you work for? I think all of these things are ways to connect with a future that perhaps you can't see when you're languishing. And there's a fantastic tool that's used in the coaching world, if you ever heard the Japanese word, iki guy. In fact, it's one I wondered about doing Japanese word for ikigai means really reason to live icky mean to live and die meaning reason. And it's a way it's a technique. It's a It's basically the iki guy diagram, it's imagine a Venn diagram with four interlocking circles. Can you picture that, Peter? And the jogs? Yeah, so that, therefore, if you'd like four interlocking circles at the corner, so that they all interlock, so there's can't do them as quickly because there's six or seven interactions between two of them. And there's one between all of them. And one of the one of the the circles is, is labeled what you love doing? One of the circles is labeled what you're good at, one of the circles is labeled, what does the world need now? And what is the circles is labeled, what does the world pay for? And this is a technique that that's actually often used. But what's so interesting in those, you know, intersections between like, what you love doing what you what you're good at, you'll find your job. Actually, that's the wrong intersection. But you know what I mean? And in these intersects, you find jobs, passions, calling mission. And I think, you know, to do this work on yourself and contemplate those intersections is really helpful to find out where it will be good for your soul to go and explore those will be good for your career to go and explore those. So I think that's a very helpful thing, but a warning. I mean, this is a lifetime's work, right. It's doesn't, this just doesn't happen overnight. But I think it's worth the effort. I think it's worth finding a goal or identifying a mission, that, you know, you can energize, lift your spirits, you know, give give yourself a powerful way to put languishing behind you. And then like the project world, you know, we've talked before about small wins the importance of small wins, because some of these long term goals can can feel a bit remote, but, you know, small wins to bolster confidence, build a sense of momentum and agency. I think that's all very helpful. We talk about that a lot on projects, don't we? Peter? Yes, we do. Yeah, we do. It's about my was about identify that there is momentum there is there is motion, there is progression in this without waiting for the big milestone, that's not going to happen for the two, three months. Yeah, that's right. So I think, you know, just to bring this to a close, I think having, having an understanding of what you're good at, what brings you joy, what the world needs, and therefore you can contribute to and what does the world pay for? So how do you monetize it, I think are all techniques to sort of help you move out of a languishing state? I think the other one is development, self development, I think, you know, progressing against a goal is very invigorating. I think thinking about a legacy is very invigorating. And I think so as you know, so is being masterful about something learning something where you become expert, because you know, when you when you do something well And when you're performing something challenging that, that asked you to fully concentrate, you know, that sense of flow, you get, you know, being in the zone. I can think I suppose it's almost like, yes, you can. Yes. It just takes over again that will I do sort of keynotes are going well, yeah. Yeah. It's not out of body experience. But it's like, it's almost like, well, that's someone doing a great job on stage. And it happens to be me. Yeah, that's right, you're fully immersed in that task. And I think that's a fantastic antidote to languaging. And I mean, in my world, it's like, fishing, you know, perfect forehand, solving a chess puzzle, you know, things that I can't do any of those things and think about anything else. And paradoxically, although they're sort of mentally challenging, they're extremely relaxing. And so for me, personally, and we all have those. And so find what they are for you, I would be what would be my suggestion. And there, you got a path out of languishing. So there you go, Peter languishing something that, you know, a sales are, so from time to time, I certainly had it a few weeks ago, and sort of got out of it and out of it, just thinking about those, those steps and techniques. So you know, just connecting with the situation, connecting with others connecting with myself, and connecting with a future state and going through it. And, you know, I recommend it as as a process. Well, I'm glad you're back. We missed you. But hopefully it wasn't that obvious. Oh, my goodness. No, it's always yes. When I think Well, I think he also down to the sort of person if someone is, you know, in your hyperlink, hyperlink, he very well strongly engaged you, you you care, you engage with people we can excetera and if, you know, that's, I think there are certain indicators in some people that it's just more obvious when they when the mudrooms got other people, it's probably harder to tell, but it doesn't mean it's not. It's not there. Yes, but I would argue that, you know, everyone has their A game, you know, everyone has moments when they're feeling on top of things, and moments when they're not. And you know, when you're not on you're on on your game, and life becomes harder. I think there's some self care here that, you know, people can apply, irrespective of how they're manifesting themselves. You know, I'm sure we all move up and down that sort of mental health continuum, at work and at home. And so, you know, and apologies to our listeners, if this was a bit sort of coaching heavy, but I just think it's a, I think everyone is impacted by this sort of sort of changes in emotional state. And I think it's helpful to talk about it. That's my premise. We will see from our listener figures whether this is one of the number one is the squid podcast, Charles. Yes, exactly. So there you go. Thank you. Thank you very much. I don't know. Well, I know it's down to you to choose subjects. But we talked a lot about coaching during that one. So with that is a future topic. I don't know. Because I think everyone should have a coach actually. And my rates are very reasonable. If anyone's interested. I will be plugging my books, you're plugging your coaching services. Alrighty. Thanks. Me. Okay. No, my pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing. I think it was a good one that I will attend to make some show notes and summary out of this one. And yeah, listeners do sending your strange foreign words that mean something special. There we go. Very good. Talk to you next time, Peter. All right. Thanks a lot. Bye. Bye. You've been listening to an unusual podcast from David ailing Smith and Peter Taylor, where information can be found at WWW dot squid of despair.com.