30 years ago, Randy Sampson, CEO and Chairman of Canterbury Park, made a gamble to bring back live horse racing in Shakopee, Minnesota. It’s paid off, and now, the racetrack, once surrounded by corn fields, is a mecca of development and entertainment, with a 19,000 seat Amphitheater on the horizon. In this episode of the Growing Destinations podcast, Randy looks back and is bullish about the future. One of his fondest memories over the past 30 years is the election night party of former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, hosted at Canterbury Park. As you can imagine – it was a wild night.
Canterbury Park
Experience Rochester
30 years ago, Randy Sampson, CEO and Chairman of Canterbury Park, made a gamble to bring back live horse racing in Shakopee, Minnesota. It’s paid off, and now, the racetrack, once surrounded by corn fields, is a mecca of development and entertainment, with a 19,000 seat Amphitheater on the horizon. In this episode of the Growing Destinations podcast, Randy looks back and is bullish about the future. One of his fondest memories over the past 30 years is the election night party of former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, hosted at Canterbury Park. As you can imagine – it was a wild night.
Canterbury Park
Experience Rochester
The Growing Destinations podcast is brought to you by Experience Rochester. Learn more about Minnesota's third largest city, which is home to Mayo Clinic and features wonderful recreational and entertainment opportunities, by visiting experiencerochestermncom.
Randy Sampson:I spent a year as the president of the horsemen group out trying to find somebody to buy the track. We just wanted to race our horses here. We really didn't set out wanting to own the track but eventually, as we looked at the financials and again looked at what the value of the real estate was, we got comfortable that this is a viable business, that we should take a take an opportunity to move forward.
Bill Von Bank:Welcome to the Growing Destinations podcast, where we take a deep dive into destination development and focus on a wide range of topics, from tourism and entertainment to economic development and entrepreneurism and much more. I'm your host, bill Von Bank. We're on location at Canterbury Park in Shakopee, minnesota, and I'm joined by Randy Samson, ceo and chairman of Canterbury Park. Randy, welcome to the Growing Destinations podcast, thanks.
Randy Sampson:Bill, my pleasure.
Bill Von Bank:Randy, the start of live horse racing in Shakopee, minnesota, in 1985 was met with great excitement. Unfortunately, after the 1992 season, the track closed. In 1994, you, alongside your father, kurt Samson, and a business partner, dale Shenian, stepped in and acquired Canterbury Park, formerly known as Canterbury Downs. The decision to revive live horse racing in 1995 marked a significant turning point. Can you share insights into the early years and the motivations behind acquiring Canterbury Park?
Randy Sampson:We were very much interested in racing at the time.
Randy Sampson:Our family was breeding and racing horses and, along with a lot of other people in Minnesota who loved horse racing and loved Canterbury Park and so are Canterbury Downs, as you said at the time, when the track closed due to competition from other gaming as well as just financial problems, it was really heartbreaking for a lot of us that loved horse racing.
Randy Sampson:You'd come by and see weeds growing up and remember all the great times here, and so it really was. When you say the motivation, it was really all about a passion for racing and wanting to see it revive. We wanted to see racing get another chance in Minnesota. To be honest, we did not really look at it as a great investment opportunity, but what we've seen now is what we did think at the time, bill, which is, you know, if the racing doesn't work, we've got a nice piece of real estate here that over time, you know it was a growing community and a good opportunity, and so we really did look at it that we wanted to see racing get another chance in Minnesota and we wanted to, you know, put together a group, and so my dad and I and Dale Shenyan were the main investors in reviving racing here and it's been a who would have thought at the time that 30 years later we'd still be here and having fun and run and racing and really have an exciting entertainment destination here at Canterbury Park.
Bill Von Bank:How easy of a decision was it to say yeah, we're all in.
Randy Sampson:It really was not as hard as you think. I will say, though, that I spent a year as the president of the horseman group out trying to find somebody to buy the track. We just wanted to race our horses here. We really didn't set out wanting to own the track, but eventually, as we looked at the financials and again looked at what the value of the real estate was, we got comfortable that this is a viable business, that we should take a take an opportunity to move forward, and when Dale Shenyan jumped in as a partner, he and my dad said let's go, let's give it a try.
Bill Von Bank:How quickly did you mobilize to start bringing revenue back into the facility?
Randy Sampson:That's another interesting, interesting tidbit that we bought the track on the end of March of 1994. And we were open on Kentucky Derby for simulcasting, which is the first Saturday in May. So we took a mothballed facility and we had Stan Boecker, who had been a previous GM here, came in and there were a lot of former employees that wanted to come back. So it really was remarkably fast to be able to get licensed, to be able to hire people and literally fill the building for the Kentucky Derby. We didn't have live racing at the time, it was just televised racing. But so we were open very quickly but it wasn't enough time in 94 to run live racing. So we simulcast for the first year and then we brought live racing back in 1995, starting in May.
Bill Von Bank:I was here opening night of live racing in 1995 and it was. The crowd was just so excited.
Randy Sampson:Yeah, there's no question that there's a. You know, and even to this day, I can't believe how many people come up and say, oh, thanks for bringing back racing. You know this is 30 years later, but we just love horse racing, we love the horses, we love the entertainment value of it and the you know the gambling aspect of it. And so there is a very. Minnesota has always had a very enthusiastic crowd and we've done a great job, I think, with people like Paul Allen and Kevin Gorg and our you know, our TV department, of creating a fun atmosphere here and, you know, somewhat unique where, where people do come out, they bring families. It's a very diverse crowd that is just out to have a good time.
Bill Von Bank:By the end of the nineties, you expanded Canterbury Park's offerings by introducing a year-round card casino. Approving card games at Canterbury required legislative approval. How easy or difficult of a task was it.
Randy Sampson:That's another interesting story that I think, as most people know, we tried for years to get slot machines here.
Randy Sampson:Racino was the, the effort, and many states then and still now continue to add casinos at their racetracks to help supplement the purses and and make the business more viable.
Randy Sampson:And so we were working on that and and not really making a lot of progress.
Randy Sampson:And then one of our lobbyist, court Holton, came with the idea that maybe we can put in card tables, which was something that was happening in California at the time. I mean, there were very successful poker and table games operations out there at their card clubs and so we started moving that direction and it and actually went very quickly that we were able to get a compromise measure, basically with the tribes and the and the legislators, where we agreed not to continue to pursue slot machines at that time, and in return we're able to open a card room, and I had no idea really how successful it would be, but it has been far beyond what we thought it would be. I would like to take credit for it. But when we started the card room in 2000, you know again, I had no idea whether you could really make any money at it. I actually said when Court Holton came to me I don't know. You know, can you really make money raking a couple bucks a hand out of a poker game?
Randy Sampson:I don't know. Well then, as, as you may recall, in like 2004, all of a sudden, all these young people, we got World Series of.
Randy Sampson:Polk. Yeah, everybody's wearing sunglasses and hats and and gotta get into Texas hold them. And I had people coming up to me and saying, how did you know this was hot? How did you ever figure this out? And I said I wish I could say that I had any idea, because I didn't. But all of a sudden poker became the hot gaming. You know television online. You know everybody was talking about Texas hold them and, and so it has. You know the popularity has has waned a bit since then, but we sure had a great run in the 2000s with the poker and it continues. The table games and card room continue to be what really drives our profits and our operation here makes us financially successful Live and special events have also been a cornerstone at Canterbury Park.
Bill Von Bank:In fact, you just hosted a snowmobile racing event at the track, which you've been doing for years. What other events have you hosted at Canterbury?
Randy Sampson:It has been right from the start, Bill. It was one of the things that we said we need to do. Previously. They did have a craft show the big craft show was here, but that really was the only event other than live racing, and when we bought the track, we said this needs to be a year-round entertainment center. It's a beautiful facility, big parking lot and there is, you know, lots of grounds and really a very growing area out here, safe, you know, easy to get to, and so we really felt like that was going to be a big piece of our business plan. Going forward is, how do we fill this place up? And so we started doing concerts, including Lilith Fair, with 30,000 people and.
Randy Sampson:Twin Cities Summer Jam we did more recently, and the number of large concerts and a number of smaller concerts, those were a big boost for us. In addition to the craft show, we did start doing snowmobile races right away. That's been great. Now we, you know, we've got the junk bonanza. There's just a lot of events going on here year-round and it really has helped grow our revenues, helped put us on the map as an entertainment destination and of course we'll, you know we'll be talking now about the amphitheater coming, which also really expands our offerings and turns this into even more of a overall entertainment center. But it really has been. A big part of our business is how do we keep this place busy year-round and find unique events? The horse ski juring was another great event for us. That a friend of mine came up and asked if you ever heard of horse ski juring. I said no. He said well, you have a horse and they pull a guy on skis and I said you know down the track and I said never heard of it, but I love it and this would be the perfect spot to do it and we've had great success with that event that'll be coming up here in February and very popular. It's turned into a real popular event for us.
Randy Sampson:When you talk about events at Canterbury, one of the really interesting and one of my favorites of all time was the Jesse Ventura election night party at Canterbury where they booked the party.
Randy Sampson:They told us there'd be a couple hundred people. You know they sent out the third string media people because the main guys were in St Paul in Minneapolis with the Democrats and the Republicans and pretty soon as the results came in, you're seeing these guys in suits in Minneapolis and St Paul, all with long faces, and at Canterbury you're seeing guys in Mohawks and leather jackets and beer in their hands screaming Jesse rocks, and we had several thousand people. I've just never seen anything like it that they just kept coming up the escalator, just steady all night long and buying beer and eating hot dogs and it was fantastic, you know. And Jesse, all of his speeches where we rocked the world, were right here. When you see the pictures or the video, it's right here at Canterbury. You can see the background and so that was one of my favorite stories about Canterbury. That you know Mary Pat, our friend that ran that whole thing at the time really just a unique evening that I'll never forget.
Bill Von Bank:I've heard many stories come out of that evening. So thank you for sharing Other events during the live season, the summer season for horse racing. That you've done and really popular have been the extreme race days or the dog racing Corgis and and Wiener dogs. I mean that really must drive some great attendance and bring families out to Canterbury.
Randy Sampson:Yeah, it has been very successful for us and I kind of take it a bit as a good news bad news, that we could bring in million dollar races and million dollar horses to race and get, you know, 5,000 people to show up, but then if you bring Corgis or or the Wiener dogs, you know it'll be 15,000 people. So we have figured out that. That's what the you know, that's what our fans are looking for is entertainment, and we've been able to do a really good job of it. Again, our TV department and Paul Allen and they do make it very entertaining when we do the extreme races with the camels and ostriches. We do the, you know, what I think is one of, if not the best, fireworks shows in the Twin Cities area on the 3rd of July, and so those events that are tied to live racing have definitely been a big part of why we've been able to get crowds and be successful.
Bill Von Bank:You mentioned a large parking lot, and the PGA of America has taken advantage of it for not only PGA tournaments but also the Ryder Cup.
Randy Sampson:Yeah, we've had a couple of times where they came out and rented our entire parking lot and parked 12,000 cars and shuttled back and forth. We also have you know, we were parking cars for the Renaissance Festival this year and it's one of the reasons again the amphitheater that we have coming up. One of the advantages or one of the reasons it made sense for them to locate here was we have this large parking lot and an ability to share that parking lot or rent that parking lot to make it more economical to have an amphitheater here where they don't have to have an entire parking lot. That's only used, you know, 30 or 40 days in the summer.
Bill Von Bank:Tell us about your transformative development initiative called Canterbury Commons. How do you envision this project shaping the community, and what role does Canterbury Park play as an entertainment anchor in this ambitious undertaking?
Randy Sampson:It's taken a long time. We started this in the, you know, two, two thousand and eight, we were working on a development plan. We're really ready to move forward with something that would be, would have been comparable to, not as big a scale but like an Arbor Lakes type development which has been a huge success in Maple Grove, and we were looking at that type of Lifestyle, retail and and entertainment and restaurants. And then, you know, the crash economic crash hit and and everything slowed down and and by two thousand fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, we started moving forward again and the you know the first key to it was getting the door and apartments, the triple crown apartments, signed on really nice, upscale apartment complex, and from there we've been able to just add, add a number of Town houses, apartments, office buildings, restaurants and and things have been, you know, it's been been a very positive part of our, of our business here and and it is very much tied to racing, that most of the people that are Interested in being developing here, or people that are residents in this community, now that we're creating our people want to be out here because there's things going on at the racetrack.
Randy Sampson:It's a you know, it's a fun, fun place. The in the Either like racing, like playing cards, like coming for the entertainment, and so it has very much tied in that the people that are. You know it's a. The whole idea was to make it synergistic and complimentary, where we can create uses that draw people to the area and and the people we draw can frequent those. Those areas are bravies and Badger hill development that opened last summer has been a really really good success so far, with the brewery in the Mexican restaurant and everything is gone. Really well, it is. It's really fun to see, I sure, like driving around. It's just like I tell people, tell me, it's just like this city is growing up out of this farm country out here that you know every time you come out here there's more buildings going on and, of course, the. Again, the main new development that we're working towards is the concert amphitheater.
Bill Von Bank:Why don't we dig deeper into that? Because the idea of an amphitheater in the Twin Cities has been talked about for years. Minnesota wild and Burnsville back in the day was not able to make that happen. How did this happen?
Randy Sampson:It is a very interesting. You know, over the years and we've been involved in some of the discussions kind of on both sides of the amphitheater issue and this is at least the third or more Third or fourth time that even in this area, as you said, burnsville for years was looked at. There are a number of other locations and everybody knows that. You know this market is a is a good music market and there should be an outdoor amphitheater and and for years it's been difficult to get that project started.
Randy Sampson:I will say my first exposure to the concert amphitheater business was Ladbrook when, when they shut down the track, wanted to Knock down the racetrack and put up a concert amphitheater, and so I actually was involved in fighting against that at the time and said Shakopee doesn't need a concert amphitheater, we need a racetrack and and we should keep this as a keep this racing. Now, thirty years later, I'm the one saying shock, shakopee needs an amphitheater, and I think we do. I think it's a great location for it. We already have this entertainment destination out here, as you know, with mystic and valley fair in the Renaissance festival, and I think this concert amphitheater just fits in perfectly into the the destination entertainment development, you know, tourism area that we're creating here. The way it came about it really was just through some personal connections.
Randy Sampson:Andy war, who you may know from from the day, was working with net abdule from some servo, who is the owner of the armory downtown, a great facility that they've done a really nice, really nice job with and we heard they were looking for a Location for an amphitheater and we started talking and again, once we looked at the synergies of our business and their business and shared parking and we'd already ände Jo, had a, you know, through our development already put in new roads all the way around the facility to facilitate, you know, large traffic, you know, movement in and out.
Randy Sampson:So there was so many pieces that just made a lot of sense and I just can't wait till it opens. It is going to be a state-of-the-art facility that Minnesota really can be proud of and we will see some of the top acts in the world, you know, coming through here and playing at Chakape. It's going to be you know which. Again, over the years we've had some great concerts already at Canterbury, but this is just going to expand that into this, you know, I believe, really being a jewel that the community is really going to enjoy having a chance to sit outside on a nice summer night in Minnesota and watch some live music.
Bill Von Bank:Any other new developments coming online?
Randy Sampson:There's a number of pieces we're working on, nothing definitive yet, but there's another restaurant we're working on that would have a music venue as part of it. We are looking at some entertainment, you know, maybe pickleball. There's a number of entertainment uses, Could be something bowling related or golf. There's a number of golf concepts. We tried for years to get top golf out here, which would have been another great addition to the development, but at this point you know they wanted to stay up on the 494 loop. But you know some.
Randy Sampson:Really there are some really exciting things. I believe that will you know, and I think the amphitheater is going to help. And next to the amphitheater, out on the corner, we have 20 acres that we have, you know, knocked down the barns and are and are preparing for development and that will be our future entertainment district adjacent to the amphitheater. Nothing specific yet, but they're fully. We expect to see hotels, restaurants, some, you know, bar, music, bars and and potential other entertainment uses that I think you know, I think will be a great addition again to this whole area.
Bill Von Bank:Such a long time coming for this area. In terms of your location, how many total acres does Canterbury have?
Randy Sampson:When we bought the tract, there's 325 acres and we purchased some additional land around us, so at one time it was over 400 acres and we have now, you know, we're down to about 250 that are still Canterbury property. The rest that the other 150, we've either, you know, we've already developed or in the process of developing. Our first development was about 50 acres the townhouses and the apartments and the office buildings, and so it's been been very successful and we continue to, you know, look for opportunities to monetize this great piece of property which, again, going back to the beginning, that was part of our part of the business case is, you know, at least, even if the racing doesn't, you know, last forever or isn't successful, we've got a great piece of real estate that we can turn into an entertainment development.
Bill Von Bank:Speaking of racing, the Minnesota Racing Commission recently approved your live racing schedule for 2024. Can you share more details?
Randy Sampson:Yeah, we, we did change things up a little bit for for this year's meet, like a lot of other states. You know, racing is, racing is a terrific sport. I love it, I love the horses, I love the horses, but it's not, you know, an industry that's been growing over the last years. There have been struggles and and so, and mainly, it's lack of horses you know there aren't as many horses being bred and lack of owners to support the industry, and some of that has to do with purse levels and the economics of being in horse racing and inflation. So we've been working on how we can try to manage that process. With less horses, how do we fill races and have a competitive racing program?
Randy Sampson:And so, part of the key, with the Mystic Lake Agreement ending last year, that did reduce our purses and we saw some drop off in the number of horses here last year, and so we are spreading out the meat. Actually, we're going to run all the way through September. We're going to start a little earlier and, as a result, you know, and run less days per week, with the idea being that we can, you know, we have to be able to manage. If we have less horses here, how do we still fill races? And the answer is you got to just spread it out to run less races per week over a longer period and I am optimistic that I think we're going to see things turn this year to the positive. As far as handle and some of the racing statistics that we saw declines this year, we really are working on a plan of how to fix it and in the long run, we are going to need additional revenues to try to support horse racing. That's what we're seeing being successful around the country.
Bill Von Bank:Looking ahead, what are your aspirations for the continued growth and development of Canterbury Park?
Randy Sampson:Real estate development is clearly still a good opportunity and something that we're going to continue to work on, and otherwise, legislatively you know they're talking about sports betting there's a number of options that we could pursue that could help us to increase our purses and be more competitive.
Randy Sampson:Most states, as I mentioned, that have horse racing and are successful, have some sort of casino gaming that helps to subsidize that. So we're going to continue to work with the legislature and the racing commission and our horsemen groups and try to find ways that we can expand racing here and, potentially, our gaming. Obviously, we'd love at some point to be able to have a casino here. There's no question that that has been successful in other states. I mean, we do have a card room casino, but the slot machines or gaming machines is not something that we currently have the authorization for and it certainly is something that in the long run would again really turn this into a great entertainment destination. If we could, if we could add, you know, some additional gaming options, including sports betting, you know that could be a nice boost for us too. We have already racing on horses, obviously, and so it'd be, you know, in Vegas when you go to the race and sports books. They're all together because it's very, it's a business that you know is very compatible to have those two together.
Bill Von Bank:More than likely that bill will be taken up again this year. The sports betting bill. What provisions would you like to see in the bill?
Randy Sampson:Well, our preference would be for us to be able to have licenses.
Randy Sampson:That would certainly be the best option for us, as we, you know, when I say licenses, there's two racetracks, canterbury and Running Aces, and we would in almost every state that has horse racing, with really just a couple exceptions. That also has sports betting. The racetracks have been part of the sports betting. They've been able to get licenses to host it on site as well as conduct the online sports betting, and so that's certainly our goal, realistically. Last year, we saw that, you know, with the tribes were, you know, very adamant about having exclusivity for the tribes on sports betting, and the bills that are currently still in the legislature that started down the path last year do not allow us to have licenses. They are limited to the tribes, but there is some potential for us to get some revenue out of it. That was part of the discussion last year is, at least, if we don't get licenses, is there potential to for some of the revenues that are generated from sports betting to come back and help support the horse industry, which we think is important?
Bill Von Bank:Randy Samson. I appreciate our conversation today, the look back and the look ahead. Best of luck with the 2024 live horse racing season and thank you for being our guest on the Growing Destinations podcast. Thank you, bill. Thank you for tuning in to the Growing Destinations podcast and don't forget to subscribe. This podcast is brought to you by Experience Rochester. More about Rochester, minnesota, and its growing arts and culture scene, its international culinary flavors and award-winning craft beer by visiting experiencerochestermncom.