S4 E3: Childhood

Today we’re talking about childhood. About how the environments that we grow up in, and experiences that we have in our childhoods can shape us as adults and affect our mental health. 

**Remember to rate, like, review and subscribe**  

Guests on the show today? 

Alex: Guest, young person based in Derby 

Bhavan: Guest, young person based in Derby 

Jamie: Guest, young adult based in Ardrossan, Scotland 

Tyra: Feature guest from Leaders Unlocked, based in London 

Shelley: Programmes Manager, for Children, Families & Young People, Mental Health Foundation Scotland 

Episode links: 

• Children and young people's mental health info page: https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/a-to-z/c/children-and-young-people 
• OCD info page: https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/a-to-z/o/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd 
• Adverse Childhood Experiences information: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html 
• Preventing mental health problems in children and young people report: https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/publications/state-generation-preventing-mental-health-problems-children-and-young-people  

This podcast is brought to you by the Mental Health Foundation. It is a space for our guests to discuss their personal experience and express their opinions. Our guests’ opinions are their own and are not an official stance of the Mental Health Foundation. 

Need support? 
Call a helpline: Samaritans are available 24/7 for free on 116 123 (UK) and whatever you’re going through, they’re here to face it with you.  

Text a helpline: If you’re experiencing a personal crisis, are unable to cope and need support - but prefer to text than chat then reach out to Crisis Text Linet by texting Shout to 85258 (UK). 

Get emergency support: If you are thinking about ending your life, please call 999 (UK) or go to A&E and ask for the contact of the nearest crisis resolution team. There are teams of mental health care professionals who work with people in severe distress.   

Find information online: The Mental Health Foundation’s support page. It’s filled with information on different ways to get help and access support for your mental health: mentalhealth.org.uk/getting-help.

Meet the ‘Let’s Talk: Mental Health’ team:  

Jennie, Bethan and Tim pull on their own lived experience of mental health, their time working with mental health charities or services and their ability to connect with people to deliver an insightful podcast filled with kindness and support.  

Jennie Walker is the big talker (Podcast Host and Co-Producer). Bethan Buswell is the curious one (Podcast Co-Producer). Tim Butcher is the behind-the-scenes guy (Podcast Editor).  

Transcript

Alex: 0:07

I struggled with OCD and I feel like that was probably due to, like me feeling a lack of control as a child

Jamie: 0:15

getting to know your trauma, because it's cliche, it's your shadow, it's always there

Tyra: 0:21

for young people in education, young people living on their own, or having to take on caring responsibilities. The pandemic put more obstacles in the way of escaping those adverse experiences.

Shelley: 0:34

It's being able to ask the question what has happened that has led me to adopt a particular coping strategy?

Jennie: 0:43

Hi, Welcome to 'Let's Talk: Mental Health', where we get together with different people and experts to chat about mental health. We all have mental health, and we can all experience mental health problems. So on this podcast, we explore the topics that can affect how we think and feel. I'm your host, Jennie Walker. We'd love to hear what you think of the podcast. So please do subscribe, like, share and comment wherever you get your podcasts. Today, we're talking about childhood, about how the environments that we grew up in and the experiences that we have in our childhoods can shape us as adults and affect our mental health. Here at the Mental Health Foundation, we believe that children's emotional wellbeing is just as important as their physical health. And that good mental health when we're younger, can help us to develop resilience to cope with whatever life throws us as adults. We also know that there are certain things that can help protect our mental health when we're younger, such as feeling loved, trusted, understood and safe. feeling as though we have some control over our lives and like we belong. And then there are the things that can negatively affect our mental health and our childhood, such as experiencing a traumatic event, bullying, discrimination, poverty, and more. So we'll be exploring this and more in today's episode. You'll be hearing from Bhavan and Alex and Jamie who share stories about their childhoods, and talk about how their experiences shaped their mental health as adults. Tyra is a new contributor; she's going to share with you her thoughts on the impact of the pandemic on children and young people's mental health. Finishing off a chat to Shelley Buckley, Programmes Manager for Children, Families and Young People at the Mental Health Foundation in Scotland. Shelley talks to me about the research and evidence behind how Adverse Childhood Experiences can affect us and what we can do to heal from them as adults. This podcast is brought to you by the Mental Health Foundation. It's a space for our guests to discuss their personal experiences, and express their opinions. Our guests opinions are their own and are not an official stance of the Mental Health Foundation. If you'd like to join the conversation online, tag us@mentalhealth on Twitter, or@mentalhealthfoundation on Instagram. And you can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Alex and Bhavan thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Would you mind just introducing yourselves for our listeners?

Alex: 3:20

Hi, I'm Alex. I'm 19. And I'm from Derby and I'm studying psychology at Sixth Form.

Bhavan: 3:26

Hi, my name is Bhavan. I'm at MHF citizen researcher. I'm 19 years old and I study A-levels.

Jennie: 3:32

Brilliant, thank you both so much. So today we're talking about childhood and adverse experiences and childhood, different things like trauma and how they affect our mental health and adulthood and when we're young as well. So the first question we're looking at today is do you feel that difficult or traumatic experiences from your childhood have a connection to your mental and physical health as an adult? Would you like to go first Alex and tell us what you think about that question?

Alex: 4:00

Yeah, sure. I would definitely say my experiences as a child definitely influenced my mental health now as I struggle with OCD, and I feel like that was probably due to a like me feeling a lack of control as a child in certain situations. So like, I now struggle with like, trying to control things like turning light switches off to make sure it doesn't start a fire or like making sure that ovens off so I can like control those little situations to make me feel less stressed. So I would feel I feel like stress from my childhood definitely affected that.

Jennie: 4:43

Bhavan What about you? What do you think of the question?

Unknown: 4:46

Um, to realise I agree with it as well. I feel like as an adult, you notice there's a large amount of healing you have to go through in order to learn to cope with what you've experienced. And I personally found myself like with a couple of toxic traits that would sometimes helped me but often times they were kind of not going by way. So being overly protective of my friends and my siblings, and kind of just struggling to feel like in order to maintain relationships I had to give and just constantly give. From personal experience that led me straight to burnout. I'm still recovering alongside a couple of mental health disorders and physical issues. So I think as an adult, you so you begin to notice things. And when you realise that some of your views may be built from your trauma, you begin to question your own ways of thinking.

Jennie: 5:25

Definitely. Thanks for sharing that Bhavan. And I agree with that a lot. I think it's difficult because when you have trauma growing up, I feel like it can, as you see form a lot of your identity. And then when you are in recovery and healing, it can be quite disorientating, because you're like, Oh, who am I without? If I don't identify with this struggle, or this thing that happened to me or my family? Alex, what do you wish more people knew about Adverse Childhood Experiences, or what it's like to experience trauma as a child.

Alex: 5:56

Just the way like, the way it affects you in day to day life, as an adult, like, even the simple things can, like be a lot harder. I also feel like, like listening to friends like childhood, like when you'd sit and talk with your friends, and they'd tell you like fun things they did as a kid and all this sort of stuff. Like, I don't think people understand how that can make you feel like it can make you feel sort of left out from those sorts of situations, if that makes sense.

Jennie: 6:30

Yeah, it can be really isolating if somebody's had a really great experience. And you're like, Okay, I don't relate to that. I really wish I had had a nicer childhood or nicer aspects of childhood.

Alex: 6:42

Yeah. And also, I feel there's a lot of parts of childhood that I feel like people who experience trauma, forget, like, there's lots of chunks of memories that aren't there anymore. So when you're having a conversation with someone about your childhood, you kind of feel stupid in a way because you like can't explain. And then there's also like trying to talk about it, and you feel like, oh, maybe that didn't happen. Or maybe I shouldn't say this, because what if it's a lie? Like why if I've made this up, when you're trying to like, open up someone about it, if that makes sense.

Jennie: 7:18

That makes total sense. I have felt similarly and that ways that you know, and sometimes I'll recount things, and I'll my parents or family members might be like, Oh, no, that didn't happen. And I'm like, Oh, am I being gaslit? Or am I miss remembering something? Because it happened in a different way, or I didn't want to remember it a certain way. And that really makes you question yourself, which is hard. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. Bhavan? What do you think?

Bhavan: 7:45

I agree with the whole memory loss thing, I feel like there's been so many situations where I'm talking with my siblings, and they bring up a certain memory. And I'm like, I don't remember that. And I feel like I kind of feel sad in a way because I'm the oldest and you think that I would remember more. But I feel like when you experience trauma, you naturally gonna sort of let those drift into your subconscious and not let them bother you again, because sometimes it's just too difficult to confront those memories. Or sometimes you just don't want to remember them. I feel like when you're younger, there's, you always expect there to be someone to save you, and take you out of that negative situation and put you in a place where it doesn't really hurt as much anymore. I feel like that's why people like you, Alex, me, everyone. We all work in a way to find people that we aspire to be like but also be the person that we needed when we were younger. So when we do work today, when it comes to mental health, and just being a nice person in general, you want to treat others the way you would treat you weren't, you know, the kindness that you didn't receive when you were a kid, you want to spread that now because you know how important it is to receive that from others. I feel like when people are dealing with trauma, it's important to recognise that we all go through different situations, but we should all treat each other the same. Because you know, you have a different story, I have a different story. But in the end, we just want common respect. So I feel like just encouraging people to lend a hand and smile, do the basic things. Because you should always treat people how you expect to be treated.

Jennie: 9:10

Definitely, definitely wise words. The thing is that it's that kind of understanding. And you know, if there is anything good to come out of having difficult experiences in your lives, I do feel like, well, for me anyway, it's made me feel more compassion or understanding towards other people's experiences. And yeah, like you're saying Bhavan and just kind of not not making assumptions about people and being kind as as a default. Okay, next question. What do you think needs to change in our society to make sure fewer children and young people experience difficult child experiences and trauma? Now that's a big question. I know. But Alex, what are your initial thoughts? When I say that question?

Alex: 9:53

I would say education and reducing stigma.

Jennie: 9:58

Yeah, definitely. I think that's great, a great answer, education, awareness. And of course, stigma is a huge issue in all of this and preventing people from getting help or support when they're going through traumatic things. Bhavan what do you think about the question?

Bhavan: 10:13

So I feel like listening to young people understanding their needs, and don't base support around traditional outdated methods that don't really apply to society today. I feel like once we take a step to educate ourselves, Like Alex said, on how to support our friends, families and peers, we gain a deeper understanding of how to grow as well.

Jennie: 10:30

It's a great concept, I think that should be applied to everyone. Like you're saying, once they've got the education, it's like accountability, isn't it?

Bhavan: 10:37

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I agree. Just taking that knowledge and using it elsewhere. Because when you start implementing it everyday it will become a lot easier. I feel like at the start, sure, learning something new is really hard. But once you start doing it will become basic practice. And I feel like we have to look out for our peers nowadays, because society is growing. And we have to adapt to those changes, however painful and difficult it may be for us.

Jennie: 11:01

Now we hear from Jamie, who tells us about his experience of growing up in care how that has affected him as an adult, and what we as a society can do to better support young people experiencing trauma. Hi, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today. Can you just tell our listeners a bit about yourself?

Jamie: 11:24

Hi, Jennie. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So my name is Jamie Dalgoutte. And I grew up in North Ayrshire. And they a lovely thing called the Ardrossan. And when I when I lived in North Ayrshire, I spent 21, lifes, 21 years of my life in the foster care system. And then in kinship care, residential care. And before the age of 5 you've experienced around 15, different placement moves. So I've had quite the life experience. And I've done a lot with my life. You know, after that, I don't I don't let it kind of define my character. So I look forward to talking about that today.

Jennie: 12:08

We've spoken a bit about this before, but do you think that the kind of traumatic experiences that come from growing up with that kind of background and those experiences when you're moving around so much, do you think that those experiences have had an impact on your mental health as an adult?

Jamie: 12:24

Ah definitely undoubtedly. You know, I'm still probably unpicking some of that, now. But without, without education, and I think without the the professionals and support networks that kind of help you unpick that and, and navigate those discoveries, you're never going to know, what the impacts really been, you know, for me significantly, you know, attachment disorders to relationships and places and people and ideally had to go on a journey, one of education, to of self discovery. And free of narrative, I really had to understand that unpick all of that.

Jennie: 13:15

Yeah. And it's like, you know, as a child, there's, of course, you have no control at that point. But then as you grow into a young adult, and, you know, late teens, early 20s, that's when you I think we've said this before, when we've spoken, the real work begins, you start to actually be able to understand the impact of what's happened, and then be able to have, you know, some form of control over it, but you need the tools, and you need the support around you.

Jamie: 13:41

Absolutely. And I think, you know, being really honest, and what I hope to talk about is what worked for me and what I've done, and it's not necessarily like, this is what everyone should do, but it should be hopefully a guide for people to kind of see what worked for me. And when I was in those years of my life, I didn't really get to enjoy being a child, or be a young adult because I knew that if I didn't start to discover an uncover all of those things early on, it would start to impact me late in life when I was thinking about family when I was thinking about kid. I went to university when I was 19. And it was it was a resentful process because it wasn't really for me, it was it was projected that that's what I should do because of my life experience that I need to be a champion for other people and to be a beacon but I just had to be Jamie and I had to find out who Jamie was and at 16, 17, 18, 19, you know, that's when I started to unpick that and that is that shows a level of my self awareness that I'm really proud of. But I knew that if I didn't find that quickly then I would maybe spiral into a completely different path, you know, my life was, was going one of two ways I was going to prison, I was going a residential school I was, I was being part of the mainstream education system. And it was thankful to you know, one particular guy who showed me the other, the alternative, and I really strived for a more positive future. And I've got that, I have absolutely got that. I've two beautiful dogs, a partner. I've got a nice flat, I own my own car, I've got a job and I actually graduated last last September, in a degree in community development. And I'm going back this year to do my dissertation year. So it is so possible to define your own life. And trauma is one of those life defining stigmas, that it is really how you narrate that. And it's how you present that to the world. Because what I've just came to learn is that trauma is my best pal. I've had to really get to know it, I've had to really get to terms with it, and address it and shout at it and let it live with me because it's going to be there for the rest of my life. There's absolutely nothing I can do about that. It's those mechanisms, it's those strategies that you've put in place. So you know, I've got a mindfulness coach that I've I've had for three years. And I reached out to my connections and you know, I'm no, I'm not perfect, because I absolutely have really bad days. And some of that is my own fault. When I'm isolating myself, I'm not doing the things that make me feel good. But it is always a work in progress, but getting to know your trauma, because it's cliche, but it's your shadow, it's always there.

Jennie: 17:15

So on, on the days where you're having more difficult days with your mental health, obviously, it's I think, what you're saying is so much of having to sit with it. And that can be really hard. But what are some other things you do to look after yourself? What would you describe as your self care?

Jamie: 17:32

Well I like video games for a start, and really like my video games, I like to be able to, you know, delve in a lot of people's stories. And I think that's why acting is so popular is people can live a different story, they can tell a different story and video games is a way of doing that as well. So I go to the gym as well. And I've got two as I say beautiful Labradors, who are my, the center of my world, so I'll often exercise them and on the weekend, I'll find nice spots to go and explore. I'll go to natural spaces on the weekend, which is near Dumbarton. And it is, but again, that's, you need to take the time to find out what you like, and for me, it's ever changing, but I'll never not try something. And I think for my personal growth from the trauma and from the key experience and just as an adult, you know, putting all that aside, just try everything once and if it's not for you, you know, you'll learn from it.

Jennie: 18:38

you did mention a wee bit earlier about teachers can we just talk about teachers and what you think those kinds of people how they can be role models and how teachers can better support kids who are experiencing trauma whether that is growing up in care or if it's coming from a maybe an abusive home or growing up around addiction? What can they do to be more supportive?

Jamie: 19:00

Yes, it's something that I'm always thinking about you know, I seen a viral video the other day about, I suppose it was it was about a hegemony but it was like a young pupil talking to a teacher and I having to address them as mister and missing by some names, but I think for the young people who have come through traumatic experiences, especially the care system, we only know is professionals. For me, building a connection with a teacher was being able to address him as a first name because it took a level of professionalism away, you know, my life was just constantly panels and social workers and carers and when I went to school, which is where you spend most of your life as a young person. I really had to have positive relationships with my teachers and a guy who, well I've done a couple of media opportunities where I've spoken about my life and Billy Brilerston was my Head Teacher at the Academy and he vouched for me endlessly through my whole time in education and I suppose I got to a point where I was like I actually owe this guy something as much as I owe myself a better life because he stuck by me the whole time. He never, he never judged me, but do you know what it was and I urge and encourage more human beings to do this, because he was curious, he was inquisitive to why is Jamie behaving like this and when he unpicked it, he realised that I'd been let down massively I'd been failed. But what he always said and what sticks to me, it will stick with me for the rest of my life is he always says I always seen the wee boy behind the behavior because it wasn't you behaving that way, it was, it was the pain, it was the trauma it was the the people that let you down, and in school was where I let it out and teachers have a massive role to guide us not just through our history lessons and lessons about the world and geography, it's how to be happy, thriving young people.

Jennie: 21:35

Now I'm going to hand over to Tyra. Tyra is our new contributor on the podcast, she's going to share with you her thoughts on the impact of the pandemic on children and young people's mental health.

Tyra: 21:52

So today, we're talking about Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs), and the significance they can have influencing our mental health and wellbeing. I want to start off by acknowledging that the journey into adulthood is not always smooth. And growing up is certainly a unique experience for everyone that comes with various highs and lows. However, what makes an Adverse Childhood Experience exceptional is how much trauma and a stress filled youth can undermine a child or young person's development, sense of stability, health outcomes, and even life expectancy. Some typical examples you may find of ACEs when you look them up include physical, emotional, sexual abuse, growing up in a household of domestic violence, living with someone who uses drugs, dealing with abandonment, neglect, or bereavement. And after having some time to reflect on these examples, I think it's fair to say growing up during a pandemic is worthy enough to be added to the list. It seems so obvious that a worldwide event where research has found children and young people's mental health to be affected, the worst, with greater feelings of stress, anxiety and depression, compared to any other age group would be classed as an adverse childhood experience. But honestly, it took me a little while to realise its full extent. I don't point this out to diminish people's experiences of the pandemic from other age groups and stages of life, who have also undoubtedly had a rough time, but rather to acknowledge that the pandemic is an overarching experience, which has exacerbated existing struggles. And in particular for young people in education, young people living on their own, or having to take on caring responsibilities. And young people who are already exposed to typical ACEs, the pandemic put more obstacles in the way of escaping those adverse experiences. Thinking back to the height of the pandemic, where there was little to no social interaction outside the home, could you imagine having to witness or go through domestic abuse in your household as a child and not having an escape during the day at school, or not even being able to learn at home because of insensitive disruptions, or even being placed at an unfair disadvantage because of the digital divide that exists in the UK due to rising poverty. And we can't forget that young people are more likely to work in retail and hospitality, and their jobs have been hugely affected because of the employment hit this sector has taken. All of these effects in a post COVID world, or should I say in a world learning how to live with COVID is bound to have a lasting mark on the mental and emotional wellbeing of young people. Research conducted by the University of Dundee found that declining feelings of school belongingness and connectedness led to poor emotional health. and higher levels of mental health problems like depression and anxiety amongst young people. It's also important to recognise that young people who lived with mental health problems pre pandemic, such as OCD, and dissociative disorder have been made more vulnerable to their conditions worsening. Now I don't have all the answers, but to ensure children and young people have the support they deserve. We need our government to be more considerate of young people's needs and take action, collaborative and holistic community programmes where young people can easily access mental health support in their areas at school and at work, even if it's simply having someone to talk to, would be so valuable. And lastly, or Lastly, for now, more blue spaces should be built and quality green spaces should be preserved. To encourage young people to spend more time in the natural world. Spending time with others or yourself in nature is essential to our wellbeing. The pandemic highlighted this, and therefore it should be a priority for investment, especially for those living in urban areas.

Jennie: 26:16

Next up, I chat to Shelly Buckley, our Programmes Manager for Children, Families and Young People at the Mental Health Foundation in Scotland. She tells us about Adverse Childhood Experiences, what they are, and how we can learn to heal from them as adults. Shelley, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's great to chat to you. Can you start off by telling us about what an Adverse Childhood Experience is and how common they are?

Shelley: 26:46

Hi, Jennie, thanks for inviting me. Where did it come from? Back in 1995, there was a big study that was done in America by the Center for Disease Control and Kaiser Permanente. And this was the first time that anybody had really coined the term adverse childhood experience. And this study was able to definitively link the effect of stressful life experiences in childhood and the impact that that had then on adulthood in terms of mental illness, and our physical health and wellbeing, for the first time, like this study was able to have evidence that in adulthood, if you had experienced stressful childhood events, then there was a greater likelihood that you could have a stroke, diabetes, cancers, or be diagnosed with a mental illness. I suppose it was massive from a public health point of view, because for the first time, the conversation about early intervention, and promotion of wellbeing for families, the argument for that was really strengthened. But it was it also encouraged public health organisations and governments to start to have a better understanding of the various factors that were contributing to these stressful life events. So this Kaiser, Kaiser research kind of highlighted that some of these events included emotional physical, abuse, neglect, dysfunctional parent and child relationships. And the original study itself can looked specifically at factors like parental mental illness, experiencing loss and grief, abandonment, living with parents with addiction problems, divorce. So there was a whole host of kind of specific life events that, that whenever they done their their survey, that they asked people to to identify as stressful events that had happened in their childhood.

Jennie: 29:03

I know for me just learning that phrase, and learning the meaning behind it helped me identify a lot of my own issues with mental health problems that I hadn't even known were a thing, you know, and having that power to name it and say, okay, so that probably has a connection to why I feel this way or why have experienced that in terms of mental health. And is it a common thing? Do you think with a lot of adults in society?

Shelley: 29:26

I think every single one of us will have experienced an Adverse Childhood Experience. There isn't one person who goes through life without having hit a bump in the road some way without living in a family situation where, you know, difficulties, traumas, emotional problems don't happen. I think the important thing about it is exactly what you're talking about Jennie, it's kind of being able to put that into context, it's being able to ask the question, what has happened, that has led me to feel the way I feel or has led me to to adopt I suppose perhaps a particular coping strategy. And it's not an exact science, you certainly can't say if I've had, you know, two or three ACEs, then this is this is likely that I'm going to be unwell as an adult. So that's the really important thing to take away from ACEs is that it doesn't predetermine your future. What it does is it helps us understand that stressful events in childhood can have a detrimental impact. But it also tells us that there are things that we can do to prevent the impact of kind of long-term harm or poor health if we know what the root cause of that is. And we can also make different choices in terms of how we manage our response to those to those traumatic events.

Jennie: 30:52

And so going back to, you know, when we are your children and young people, what are the most common mental health problems that children and young people experience, who may or may not be dealing with Adverse Childhood Experiences?

Shelley: 31:06

Around one in six children, experience depression, anxiety, or something that's called conduct disorder, which is basically a type of kind of behavioral difficulties, where they're struggling to manage their emotions, and it's coming out perhaps in ways that are difficult for people to understand or for them to manage and people around them to manage. But it's very often a direct response to what's happening in young people's lives. This is not to say that there isn't a physiological component of mental health problems and mental illness. Certainly, you know, Neuroscience tells us, you know, that it's so important for us to maintain good brain health. But in order to do that, you know, we have to create the right conditions to maintain good brain health. And that includes stability and security and love,

Jennie: 31:58

I think that you've really perfectly illustrated how and making sure that children have, you know, the right nutrients and opportunities for exercise, to socialise, to engage in, you know, leisure activities, to be able to find ways to express how they're feeling, to explore their identity, to explore their world in a way that they feel safe and secure. All of these things are really important in terms of contributing to maintaining our health on a holistic point of view, but also in terms of developing good self-care strategies, and thinking about how we cope in stressful situations. important our prevention messaging here at the charity, because that's the heart of everything, isn't it? You know, if you're going to have poverty and trauma, it's not setting a great environment for you to be able to look after your mental health.

Shelley: 32:55

Absolutely, I think we need to move away from pathologising and and medicalising social problems. I mean, there's been lots of research done within the Foundation that identifies the impact of those structural factors that cause inequalities in people's lives. And the links between poverty and trauma are really strong in that we know that young people who live in impoverished backgrounds are often living in unsuitable housing. And their parents are under extreme stress. And they can even experience homelessness, and they don't necessarily have the same social opportunities.

Jennie: 33:36

And what does that look like, you know, taking the onus off the individuals who are battling a huge system that can feel insurmountable, I'm sure at times, what what can the systems in place of society, how would it look to change them to actually support people in these positions and make sure they're not living in poverty, when it's really can be, can be stopped that kind of thing.

Shelley: 33:59

As far as making sure that, you know, families have got access to adequate income, and making sure that, you know, early on your children and parents have access to the right support, in terms of opportunities for employment and education, and also making access to safe spaces and accessible kind of cheap opportunities for people to access leisure, you know, and activities that families and children can, can go and do together. But also children can go and do without great cost to their families. So I think we need to consider you know, equality is at the heart of this and making sure that you know, we are making the support that is available, accessible, erm but also thinking more deeply about, you know, how do we support families out of poverty.

Jennie: 34:56

And if there are adults who are listening to this podcast who are just like Learning about ACEs, Adverse Childhood Experiences, just just now from our chat, and our thinking, actually, you know, I relate to a lot of what Shelley's saying. And they, they might want to look into it more, or see, you know, they might identify as having a mental health problem that might connect with an Adverse Childhood Experience. What would you say to them? What where would you recommend they go to learn more about it? Or to help themselves a bit better?

Shelley: 35:26

I think there's, I suppose there's, first of all, I guess it depends on for many people in adulthood, often, past traumas can have a really negative impact I suppose, if you feel that you know what traumatic experiences in your childhood is, has led I suppose to real challenges and difficulty, then often, sometimes it does mean access and specialist support through your GP. But very often, I think you've talked about it earlier on Jennie, it's about beginning to understand that how what has happened to us in the past, does affect how we think, feel and behave. And if we start to become much more consciously aware of the factors that are having that detrimental impact on our health, and on our relationships and on our lifestyle, then we can start making small changes, that can have a positive effect. And it is about educating ourselves. And there's lots of really useful information available online, on the NHS website, on Mental Health Foundation website. There's lots of information there that would help you kind of start to have a better understanding of what ACEs are. And also start to think through, you know, how that has potentially influenced choices you've had or habits that you've adapted in order to cope in stressful circumstances. So it's the ability really to recognise and manage these different emotions, and our capacity to I suppose make and keep those healthy friendships and relationships. And that's really, really important. And making these small, incremental changes to adapt better self-care and different coping strategies can also can make the world a difference to someone.

Jennie: 37:27

Thank you to Bhavan and Alex, Jamie and Shelley for

joining me on 'Let's Talk: 37:30

Mental Health. I have been your host, Jennie Walker. And I hope this episode has helped you think about childhood and mental health. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are available in the podcast notes and on our website. We're continuing this conversation over on our social channels. If you'd like to share your thoughts on childhood and mental health, remember to tag the Mental Health Foundation. If you've been affected by any of the topics that have come up on today's podcast episode, please remember that Samaritans are available 24/7 for free in the UK. All you have to do is call them on 116 123 in the UK, and whatever you're going through, they are there to face it with you. If speaking on the phone is too difficult and you prefer to text, then get in touch with Crisis Text Line by texting SHOUT to 85258 (UK) If you're experiencing a personal crisis or unable to cope and need support, they're available 24/7. If you yourself are feeling like ending your life, please call 999 (UK) right now, or go to A&E and ask for the contact of the nearest Crisis Resolution Team. These are teams of mental health care professionals who work with people in severe distress. If you'd like to get more information on where to get support for your mental health, visit www.mentalhealth.org.uk/get-help. Thank you so much for listening. Take care