The future of internal communication with Jennifer Sproul

In this episode of LEAP Listens, Sara and Roger speak to Jennifer Sproul, CEO of the Institute of Internal Communication, about how internal comms is evolving, and what that means for organisations today.

Jen shares practical insight on how the function is shifting from content delivery to creating meaningful connection, and why listening is becoming just as important as messaging. They discuss the impact of AI, the challenge of channel overload, and what good internal communication looks like in a post-COVID, hybrid-working world.

If you're rethinking how to engage employees more effectively, this is a conversation worth tuning into.

LEAP Listens is brought to you by LEAP Create, an award-winning people communications agency.  Find out more at leapcreate.co.uk

Transcript

Setting the Scene: Leap Listens Returns

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Leap Listens, the Bite-sized employer branding podcast. I'm Sarah.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

And I'm Roger.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

And we lead Leap Create. Leap Create is a creative communications agency and we specialise in employer branding and internal communications. We work with in-house professionals to help bring the story of your company to life to help attract and retain your best talent. This is our sixth series of Leap Listens. And if you're new here, we chat to a variety of industry specialists about workplace culture and how to communicate with candidates and employees. And if you want to know more, head over to our website or Spotify for over 70 episodes to listen to. Welcome. Hi Rog.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Hello, Sarah. How are you? How are you? I'm very well, you.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yes, I'm very good, thank you. I can't believe we're in the mid-80s of our podcast episodes.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I know. It's absolutely unbelievable that you have managed to last this long.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yes. Well, we're not in the same booth anymore, are we?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

So No, that's probably why.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

We might make it to a hundred.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

We might do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

But we're head we're heading to the to the nineties.

Meet Jen Sproul and IOIC’s Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:07

We are heading into the nineties. Yes. Who are we talking to today?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

So we're talking to Jen Sprall, who is the CEO of the Institute of Internal Communications and is the UK's only professional body that's completely focused on internal comms.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yes. And obviously I asked who we were talking to today. I did, I did know, of course. That was just a way to so you could set her up. We obviously have a little pre-chat with these people, and Jen is absolutely fascinating and probably one of the most knowledgeable people that we've spoken to about internal communications, and is everything that she's doing there is just sort of at the cutting edge, isn't it? So it should be a really interesting chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Absolutely. So let's welcome Jen to the podcast. Oh, thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Thrilled to be here. Excellent. So, Jen, tell us about you and the work that you do with the Institute of Internal Communications.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah, of course. So I am the chief executive of the Institute of Internal Communication. So I am, of course, responsible for the leadership and the delivery of the day-to-day operation of the institute. But more importantly than that, I'm responsible for working with our board of elected members and our wider community to deliver our strategic goals. And that means what we're looking to really achieve, of course, is to grow and support our membership community so they can really grow into their practice to champion professional standards and skills and development, but also, as well, more importantly, advocate for the importance of internal communication and why it is so critical to organisations.

Internal Comms Evolves: From Broadcast to Fabric

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Fantastic. Now, look, we've all heard the stories about internal comps being misused and can you do a birthday card for Jeff in accounts and that kind of thing. But we also realize that it's very much moved on and is now much more of a critical strategic function. And we work on quite a few briefs here at Leap Create, which involve delivering quite critical messages to internal employees and having to do that in an interesting and an engaging way. So what are the things that you're seeing? I I think we had the title of this as being the future of internal comms. That's quite a big, you know, it's quite a big subject. But what are some of the key things that you're seeing, the key shifts that you're noticing in internal comms that your members are telling you?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Absolutely. I think internal communication has a really long history. It's a really established history. And as you have pointed out, has had that history perhaps rooted in more the broadcast delivery part of communication. I would say, you know, since then in the previous few decades, that has shifted enormously. But I think it's been through another pace of acceleration, particularly in the last five years, and where that sits us as we look towards the future. So when we talk about effective internal communication, it means the environment, the conduct of how communication can be done to enharness uh understanding, delivery of goals, of trust, of ensuring good culture, and how it supports values and behaviors, and how it becomes a mechanism for an organization that is resilient and built to deliver change and transformation, which is far beyond simple message delivery. This is much more about how the future of internal communication becomes a critical point in organizations that creates the environment, the fabric, the situation, every touch point, every moment that ensures everyone can achieve the optimal goals we're looking for. And it creates that effective environment for communication to be the thing that enables progress, that enables delivery, uh, and delivering messages and create which is important, let alone how the future of language and communication style is changing in itself, is one element now, I think, of a much bigger picture as we face into the future.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

That's great. So your your research shows employees want more like human and authentic communication at work. And does that make brands more credible externally too? It's a good question. Yes, I think it does.

Authenticity Inside-Out and Brand Trust

SPEAKER_02 5:33

I think no, if we look at what's happened in recent decades and in recent years, what we say and how we say it, and the brand reputation of that is under perhaps more scrutiny as consumers, customers, employees, stakeholders, than it's ever been before. There is a sort of wide open forum, if you like, where we can use our own voices like we've never been able to use them before under all of those different auspices. So what we say and what we do internally and therefore externally have to really be fundamentally aligned. Otherwise, brands are in danger of being shown or showcased to be disingenuous, distrustworthy, um, not doing the things they state they're going to do. Those things can be really, and when those things are discovered in the way that we work now as a society, perhaps as a we're all our own content creators, we're all our own writers now, that we can disseminate that is really important. So, therefore, when I talk about effective internal communication, it goes beyond just what we say. It has to feel like it's the lived experience and it's true and it's authentic and it's honest and it's human. So, therefore, when you convey that externally, the two things do align. Because if not, that's a real point of brand management and reputation management for organizations, I think, in today's world.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

And are you seeing like marketing teams working a lot closer with internal communications teams as part of their marketing strategy, given that you know employees are sort of those that sort of really trusted voice?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

The alignment of internal communication and marketing has always been a sort of a sticky subject, I would say. Um, with internal communicators, I think we're far more aligned practically every day in organizations with corporate communication and HR. And there's plenty of arguments on either side of where it should sit, which I don't always think does any benefit to how we move forward. But marketing-wise, I think that's an area we could move into in terms of really being seen. But I think there is that power struggle of who is what, and where that can perhaps be seen as perhaps our ad can't say the word, adversary, if that's alright, adversary, that's the word. Um, but I think we're seeing much more work in in advocacy, but that's through HR, I would say. So how can employees become an advocate for them as a place to work, as a great place to work, than we are more so perhaps on the marketing side, but that doesn't mean that isn't a place that we should be aligned.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

This might be met with an eye roll for its obviousness, but how do you see AI changing the way that we deliver internal messages on that? I mean, we it already is, but I wonder what what you're seeing.

Where IC Sits: HR, Corp Comms, Marketing

SPEAKER_02 8:30

In terms of I think there's two lenses for AI and its impact on internal communication, in terms of that piece around how are we using AI to create internal material, messaging, etc., etc. Um, what I'm seeing is we as a professional community, by and large, recognize that it's coming, that it's an opportunity, that it's something to be adopted, but we also approach it with, I think, still a great number of pieces of care, of consideration. And I think we at IOIC, for example, we've done a lot of work on our AI ethics charter around what that looks like because um words and language and message is not to be flung around flippantly, dare I say it. So I think that we are seeing AI come along to help us take away some of those tasks and those mundane things, and where can AI step into perhaps more transactional level communication or information-level communication, and how can it take off perhaps some of those tasks that we're spending too long on, so whether that's creating PowerPoints or debts, or writing up meeting notes, or you know, analysing information. And I think we are sort of starting to see it being used in content creation, but I think there is a great protection around if we don't do this diligently, ethically, responsibly, we need to be guardians of the importance of that information. So, therefore, how can we use it so that it doesn't hinge or impede or risk what we're trying to create for the sake of efficiency? Because if something's done quicker, great. But if it gives a but if that's at the cost of doing a worse result and a worse impact, you have to judge that. So I think we see more of our role in in bringing it into our work, but also being people that make sure it's adopted ethically and it doesn't damage the fundamental goals that we are trying to achieve. And also the other part of internal communication in AI is how are we enabling AI narratives to be communicated with honesty in our organizations because the skepticism of AI and most organizations haven't really clearly communicated what they're doing with AI and the implications of it, therefore, that's going to impact potential adoption.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, it's it's so it's fascinating because there's two sides to this case. So one for me is that it's a way of some people communicating better because they might be able to say, I want to make this message more empathetic, or I need to write this thing. How does how will that play out in certain ways? The flip side to that is that's been written by AI. I can see it is all of the tropes are there, and therefore it's you know, it the humanity has gone, and yet used in the right way, it it can be a good tool to introduce more humanity, if that's making sense.

AI’s Promise, Limits and Ethics in IC

SPEAKER_02 11:31

But that comes down to us taking our own responsibility to train ourselves to to work with it in that way. It is to how can we use it as a as a I guess our assistant, our secret person to help us critique our work, help us think something through, but not to be so it what I think AI, the the adoption of AI means for internal communication in a day-to-day sense, the one skill we fundamentally need when weaving it into our work is critical thinking. Just be critical of it, check yourself, think about your goals, does that help? It doesn't mean it, but critical thinking is is paramount over speed and efficiency.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I suppose also not only talking about AI and sort of changing you know the way that we we work using that, also looking at like the future of um internal communications is the channels that have changed as well since well, probably like pre-COVID times, there's new channels out there. How have you seen that shift and what channels should people be sort of looking at and um focusing on in the in the future?

SPEAKER_02 12:38

There's certainly been an explosion of channel, an explosion of choice. I think as I look to the future, it's not necessarily there is there is a channel for anything and everything you want to do, right? If you want to have an audio message, if you want to have a video message, if you want to develop a social media and discussion group, if you want to do forums, feedbacks, you want to do virtual events, physical events, print, you have every channel there is at your disposal. And that's brilliant. Because fundamentally, when it comes back to it, it's what is the problem you are trying to solve, or what is the thing you're trying to bring, you know that there is going to be a channel or technology or a piece of thing that can help solve that. Um, the question is making sure we pick the right ones for the right messages and for the right purposes. It's not to use everything. I think that what we have also got now in that impact is um noise and attention deficit. We're in a crisis to get people's attention. I think we're from research we did a while ago, we've got about 15 minutes a day. Um, I think that's probably decreasing. I've spoken to some experts who've looked into this and academics who say we have less attention now than a goldfish. So you know we're going great. Um, so we have to fight for that, but also we have to seek to understand the rhythm of our work, of our employees, of our people, and what suits them and where they want to engage. Email is still dominant. These things aren't going anyway. And what is going to move someone from one channel to another is is whether it works for them in their time, in their flow, in their day, is it relevant? What's in it for me? Why should I engage? So I think that where it places that pressure for us as a community is not to think how do we use every channel, it's how do we use the right channels for the right outcome for the right purpose? Because there's there's a wanting from.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Also for the right audience as well, because you're not going to be able to, yeah, it's not a one size fits all um workforce anymore, is it?

Channel Overload, Attention, and Relevance

SPEAKER_02 14:39

No. And I'd also, Listen, again, what's the purpose of that channel? Is it to inform? Is it to get people to know information? What do you want them to get from it? Because what I would say is I look into the future of internal communication and the work that we're doing, conversation and connection is going to far trump a transactional piece of content. You need that. It doesn't take any of that importance away. But if we think that that's going to help increase understanding in certain complexities and build connection and trust, you still need strong leadership visibility. You still need good management communication. You still need to make sure those points is of connection, of dialogue. Um, and some of those can be done through digital channels as well. Um, but I think that we need to be careful not to strip that human humanity and that dialogue where we create meaning and understanding, particularly when we're thinking about the complexity of what we're trying to achieve. And fundamentally, as employees, we feel more connected and driven when A, we understand, but also we feel heard and listened to. So it is about how the dialogue and the flow of information that happens in an organization as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

If you could completely reinvent internal communications from tomorrow, what would it, what would it look like? Would you would there be things you get rid of, things that you you would banish? What what what would be the ultimate?

SPEAKER_02 16:07

That's a great question that I've never had before. I feel like you've given me some license to say something that everyone's gonna go, no, Jen, no. Um I think I'd stop from the place of a channel. I'd stop from content as the start point. I'd start from the place of business need, business impact, start from the place of working with stakeholders. I'm not denying how important they are. They are fundamental. They are the thing that is going to enable your strategy and what you're trying to do to come to life. But I think I would start from a point of what are the outcomes we're trying to achieve, and how do we want to create a communication fabric in our organization that allows people and business to thrive? And how do we design that through the experiences and therefore then how does so we're outcome-led, not uh method led?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

I was going to ask, what companies and or sectors are you finding that are doing really well in the internal commons space?

Conversation Beats Content: Human Connection

SPEAKER_02 17:12

It's a difficult, it's a difficult question to answer because I'm not it would depend on the data that they're producing that I perhaps don't have my eyes on, as an are they delivering on all those goals? I certainly see bigger teams, bigger functions. I'm not going to going into more of the financial services, professional services, regulatory environments, which are really going after it. I'm seeing, particularly in some technology companies, a lean towards internal communication and community as an outcome and how we do that. Um, we certainly, of course, look at our award winners, and that's a real spread of who's winning our awards. Sometimes, you know, we had Curry's won our Grand Prix award, for example, last year. I shall not reveal this year's winner, but you can add it in if this is live afterwards, and we're seeing that mix much more so as well move forward. I wouldn't want to highlight a particular company, but I would say it's a real blend. But for me, it's those ones that are getting the cut through and understanding, and they're reframing their function to deliver on those outcomes as opposed to those tools.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

What are the metrics that you're you think matter the most for um internal comms?

Reinventing IC: Outcome-Led by Design

SPEAKER_02 18:28

It comes down to the um the metrics that enable us to articulate how we have contributed. So, what does that mean in practice? Well, have you created strategic understanding? Do people know? Is your information cutting through? Not whether they're receiving it, are they understanding it? What does that look like? So I'll be looking to understand that. Is there what is listening and feedback loops? How is that going? How's that being responded to? How are people feeling about it as a place to work? Um, are they feeling that their ideas are being heard and they're fed back and that they're able to be an advocate? Um, I'll be looking at metrics in terms of change communication. I think that's a great place to start in terms of business outcome. You know, when we're developing change comms and transformation, which is fundamentally where change goes wrong, is that change being understood? Is it being acted? Is it being moved forward? Um, and I'll be looking at things around fast and sentiment and general feeling towards the organization and the leadership team. What you want to do is find that pathway to those points of data that we collect that enable us to have an agile, continuous feedback loop between employees and leadership so that we can adjust and move forward. We can test and deliver and refine our messaging. I'd be trying to look at those messages that make sure that understanding is going well and does that link to therefore business performance? You know, is the business achieving growth and commercial and what it wants to do? They're not yours, but understanding that and understanding those pieces of information side by side give you a pathway to show that. I'll be looking to look at things around how people feel about the experience and how they would talk about it as an advocate. And obviously, of course, you can look at that side by side around talent and churn and all those sorts of things. I'll be looking at, well, is the change team looking to deliver X, Y, and Z change to make XYNZ saving or XY and Z merger? And has that gone well? And therefore, then how's the change communication landed and played a part in that? So I'd always be looking at how my how is my communication doing alongside those other metrics and can I draw a picture? We need our own metrics as internal communicators to understand channel and message and where that's going. But that's something that we should be building to everyday practice improvement as a as opposed to demonstrating our impact.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Oh, that's a very comprehensive answer. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

When when we're talking to some of our some of our clients, what we're finding is that surveys are sort of, you know, there's a real fatigue in surveys, and everyone wants to survey all departments, other agencies that come in want to do more research and surveys with with employees. And we were talking, Roger and I about how, you know, rather than just a survey as it stands, what other ways could you collect data, information, feedback that's much more interesting, interactive, exciting? What are you finding, Jen, in in that sort of space and and what ideas and thoughts do you have for the future of collecting data?

Measuring What Matters: Understanding and Change

SPEAKER_02 21:31

I think it goes back to what I was saying a little bit earlier, as well as what I would be saying to internal communicators and we think about data collection. It's not for the sake of saying surveys are gone. That's not my my my sentiment, that's not what I'm trying to say. But what I'd be thinking about is how am I designing my listening programs? Where does that go? How does that happen? Not a survey, my listening programs. So that means going out to thinking about and actually where because that information, that data is coming into your business every day. You don't need another survey to find it. It exists if you reach out and find it. So that can be are you doing a roadshow and visibility things? What's the questions coming in? What's coming at your town halls? What's the feedback looking like? Are you going out into the business as an internal communicator? Um, whether that's shadowing people in their roles, having you know chats and feeding back, that's another point of collection. Do you have a network of managers and influencers in your organization that you talk to regularly that can give you sentiment and feedback? Um, do you have a social network or a channel, a chat that your organization runs where you know there's dialogue happening every day? How are you mining that information? How are you coding and analysing that information? Um so there is all those spaces that's the data collection is happening on a regular basis. And surveys then, as well, your annual survey as well, can give you a start point to kind of go, that's the thing I want to dig into. There's also things like performance appraisals, reviews, all those things are happening all the time. You can have forums, your networks, again, listening pieces. And I think that we need to make sure from a leadership point of view that we have those big nuggets of data and those compelling statistics that help to and don't always look to validate your work. That's not what we're trying to do. We're looking to make improvement. Find the problems the business needs solving. We're not trying to survey to we're great. If you are, that's great. But we're also trying to seek how we can solve a challenge in an organization and where things are going wrong. So we can play that upwards and we can make influence and we can secure funding for whether that's resource, um, agency, design, whatever that looks like. So why are we saying yes, you need those big metrics? But there's so much power in the storytelling of data. So I used to work in, you might obviously I get a bit uh excited about data. I used to, I did also work for the market research industry for 13 years and consumer insights, who I have seen really use things around observational research and anecdotal research as a great way to mine information. Where they've struggled is how to tell a story of the information to get buy-in.

Beyond Surveys: Always-On Listening

SPEAKER_00 24:23

What I really liked, what you said there was about the information already being out there. I mean, putting aside covert microphones on desks and uh CCTV and tracking people. Um, I like this idea of the information being being there because there is something, isn't there, about like this is the one time a year when we're gonna ask you what you think, and we'll you're probably gonna get more of a rant and rave type response, or it's just uh oh, you know, it's that they only care about it sort of at this particular one point in the year that you want to hear what I've got to say, and then the classic, and what are they gonna do about it anyway? So I like the idea that actually uh rather than asking people it's more of a listening, listening exercise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

And as you as well, and also what you get from that is is you want you're looking for a feedback as well that's unbiased. It's not it's just it's felt and it's an everyday, it's as you say, it's not that rantom element or you're making me see bad, or I have to fill that in because my manager's told me I've got to fill in this survey. You're looking for that authentic thing, and you're looking for those. I always say as well as if I walk in as an internal communicator, one of your jobs is to be a diagnostician, to diagnose where are the gaps, where is information not flowing, where is there not a connection, where is there misunderstanding, and how can that and how's that impacting the organization and where it wants to go? So then how can I close those gaps and improve that for the outcomes for everybody? So that to be a diagnostician doesn't mean you need to do surveys are important, but that means going out and having conversations and listening and mining that information to draw a picture of where you need to go forward.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Excellent. Well, Jen, I feel like we could easily make this a couple of hours long.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I could chat forever, but that's so you know, but I need to be stopped.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Um but that's fine. But it it might be that you know we have a uh a gender return, because we you know we have had repeat guests, not not very often, but you you definitely you would be someone that we'd invite back because I think you've got so many interesting things to say. And I think this right now is is a particularly hot, hot topic. So I think um I think you're definitely onto something with this internal communication as well. I'm hoping for it. Um yeah, good, good, yeah, good. Well well well done. But the one thing that we always like to ask our guests is if they have any interesting reads or listens that they can recommend.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah, so I I guess one of the most I guess interesting and thought-provoking books I've read of lately was Careless People, a story of where I used to work by Sarah Wynne Williams. Um, I think why did I find that interesting? Because I think it it opens your eyes to what we say, how we do it, but also the careful nature in which we need to understand how algorithms, digital media is impacting our consumption, but also how internal management and outside reputation management play closely aligned. And um, we get a lot of talk about Silicon Valley, and I think peaking beneath the surface of what that's all about is really, really important to understand it honestly, and how those things are changing, but also um how where we work can become a danger if that is leaked, and what's not lived inside and reflected outside is not aligned.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah, they'll probably stop this going out. Yeah, it's gonna start crackling, you know, just at the end. Yeah.

Recommendations, Wrap-Up, and Leap Lift

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Sorry, Sarah, you can come in and be an adult.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Oh that's all right. No, fine. I was gonna say I was gonna put that on my reading list.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Looks good. Excellent. Well, thank you, Jen.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Pleasure. And there is our leap lift again, Roger. Right, what are we lifting about today? Can you see my enthusiasm for this one?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

I can. You feel more enthusiastic than you've ever felt before about a leap lift.

Leap Lift: Build Email Talent Pools

SPEAKER_01 28:32

I know, I can't wait to get stuck in. And uh today we're gonna be talking about email talent pools.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

We are, and um, I mean, that was the line in my script, but that's absolutely fine, Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Hold on. Q Sarah. Ah, one of my favourites. In actual fact, it is actually one of my favourites. I do love a bit of email talent pools. So um building and nurturing email talent pools is um one of the most cost-effective recruitment marketing channels available. It's all owned data, and what we can do at Leap Create is help you um scope that out perfectly to a perfect strategy to help keep potential candidates engaged and informed about your company.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

That's right. We design and build custom email nurture programs that keep talented candidates updated on company news, culture, insights, and relevant job alerts, keeping your brand top of mind when they're ready to make their next move.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yes, and it's uh it's brilliant for creating um that warm and engaged talent pipeline. And um what we've done is we've crafted some really great email campaigns to help nurture, like I say, that owned data, which is a much more cost effective way than um, say, paid social or um constantly paying for new job boards, which is obviously all still very important. But it's definitely a channel which I think gets massively overlooked.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

It does. And what we can do is design and build emails that suit specific recruitment needs. So whether that's a graduate programs or you need senior leadership or you've got very niche technical roles, then I recommend that you talk to us about getting started with your email talent pool strategy.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yes, talk to us. Give us a call or uh drop us a DM in in LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Slide into our DMs.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Right?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Good. Alright, well we've arrived.