Two Become Family Podcast: Conversations and Encouragement For Your Catholic Family
Welcome to the podcast where we echo the words of St. John Paul II and encourage families to "Believe in what you are!"
We are Renzo and Monica Ortega, we've been married 13 years, we have 5 kids, and our apostolate, Two Become Family, encourages Catholics who love the Church, love each other, and still feel like marriage and family life is harder than it's supposed to be.
Through our very candid, and sometimes uncomfortably vulnerable, conversations about sex, NFP, conflict, family life, we hope to spark conversations between you and your spouse leaving you with a little more joy and a lot more hope that you have what it takes to be a family.
Visit us at https://twobecomefamily.substack.com for more for your marriage
Two Become Family Podcast: Conversations and Encouragement For Your Catholic Family
Why Does Marriage Prep Matter?
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In today's episode we discuss how St. John Paul the Great saved our marriage, how being a stay-at-home-dad changed Renzo's perspective on being a husband and father, and why it's so important for couples to prepare well before getting married!
SHOW NOTES
Thank you all for your ongoing support. We love what we do, and we pray that it is a blessing to you and your families! In today's episode, we reference Familiaris Consortio, to read the full document visit: Familiaris Consortio
Here is the blog post we referenced today: What being a stay-at-home-dad taught me about being a husband
LINKS
Learn more about our marriage and family ministry: https://twobecomefamily.com
Connect with us and send us a message: https://instagram.com/twobecomefamily
OUR BOOKS
Go To Joseph: 10 Day Consecration to St. Joseph: https://amzn.to/3Ivh5eS
Go To Joseph For Children: https://amzn.to/3fU9biN
RECOMMENDED RESOURCES
Here are some of our favorite books and resources that will support your marriage, family, and faith. *Full disclosure these are affiliate links, which means we get a little kickback if you purchase it, but it’s at no additional cost to you.
Love and Responsibility by JP2: https://amzn.to/3HhJ4yw
Theology of the Body by JP2:https://amzn.to/3Hk9ZtE
5 Love Languages by Dr Gary Chapman: https://amzn.to/3AJI9nU
Boundaries by Dr Henry Cloud: https://amzn.to/3rgWENa
Daring Greatly by Brene Brown: https://amzn.to/32JotnA
Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramey: https://amzn.to/3HiRpll
St. John Paul and his 5 loves by Jason Evert: https://amzn.to/3g9ctPB
The Porn Myth by Matt Fradd: https://amzn.to/3KXpABv
Hey there everyone, this is Monica, and welcome to episode one of Pre-Cana with the Pope. In today's episode, Renzo and I ask why marriage prep is important. We talk about how St. John Paul the Great saved our marriage and why we think every couple needs to prepare for the highs and lows that come with married life. We think this is a perfect first episode to our brand new show, and we're so happy you're here with us. Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_01Our marriage was not going well. Two, three years in. How many years in was it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It was two, three, four years. I'd say year two through four.
SPEAKER_01Two through four? Yeah. Was it that long? Before I recognized anything was wrong?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, okay. But um it was after John our son John Paul was born. Um that that made a big difference.
SPEAKER_00That catapulted a lot of the change. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, like I really think he brought to the surface like everything that had seemed okay, I guess, to that point. You tell me. How bad were things?
SPEAKER_00Uh no, I think that he just brought, yeah, I think like you said, he brought to the surface things, and at that point things needed to change. Like it had to change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, it's funny because I do think that God allows a lot to happen in order to bring those things out and to force those things to change. Like if you're not willing to change, he's gonna let the bad things happen. So that like the only thing is to like meet that, meet the problems, meet the circumstances head on, and and do something about them. So like um, I became a stay-at home dad.
SPEAKER_00Well, sorry, going back, I would say a lot of the things were really discreet too at first. Like, it was not these big deal things right off the bat. It was little small covert choices and behaviors and letting things slide and not talking about this thing and not talking about that thing, and that eventually those habits formed and they became more regular, and still nothing was being said or done or or said in a way that inspired like motivation, right?
SPEAKER_01I I remember I remember like our fights, and you would just bring up the same things, and I would have no idea what you're referring to, or like what else do you expect of me? Like, I'm trying my best, at least at what I thought was my best. Um, and then John Paul was born, not obviously not the same. Our son, John Paul was born, and our second son, our second son, and he was colicky, yeah, and colic was is legitimately legitimately a thing. We have five kids now, um, and our second just cried so much and we couldn't do anything to stop, so added so much tension to the house.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, so that's like all of a sudden things were escalated, and then on top of that, our work situation had to change.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01And I became a stay-at-home dad, and just everything was just so up in the air, and I didn't know and I never turned upside down. Everything got turned upside down and inside out, and I had no idea what was gonna happen. Um, I remember I don't know if we ever expressed it this way, but like I just felt so uncertain about our marriage, like what is happening. We were always fighting. Um, it got to the point that we just weren't just weren't able to be communicating or intimate or anything in the way that a a marriage should be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um and we knew that, at least like we could we could see that, but we didn't know what to do about it.
SPEAKER_01No, and then and then in that though, God brought me because I I though I know you try to take on a lot of the brunt, I was a big part of the I was a big problem. Um the I never I didn't know what it was what I should do as a husband or what I should do as a father. Um I think a lot of us know what we shouldn't do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You didn't have you didn't have examples, you didn't have a support system.
SPEAKER_01Right. And I think that we I think a lot of people can identify like this is not what a husband should do, this is not what a father should do. Um so we avoid those things, but then like you still don't know like where are you falling short because you don't have that example to look to. Um, and I really had to come to terms with that as a stay-at-home dad, just not knowing like what is my example. Um, so then I I went to St. John Paul and I started reading his writings. Um I love I read through Love and Responsibility, started reading through his his exhortations and his encyclicals, and I found the example that I was looking for. Uh eventually he brought me to the most powerful example of St. Joseph, which is for a completely different episode. Um, but my time as a stay-at-home dad was my time with St. John Paul and just reading everything and realizing that like I had to change, and these are the ways I needed to change. Um, and I know an article that I ended up writing because I started a blog, because that's what one does when they're a stay-home parent.
SPEAKER_00When you're a millennial stay-at-home parent.
SPEAKER_01Millennial stay-at home parent, trying to come up with a uh a thing to do. An outlet, an outlet to just get all my thoughts out. But I put together an article just saying what my time as a stay-at-home dad taught me about being a husband. Um, and I know that's an article you actually share all over the Facebook group blogosphere.
SPEAKER_00Yep, all the moms' groups.
SPEAKER_01Why do you share that?
SPEAKER_00I share it because it's from a male's perspective. So there's a lot of marriages. Uh, I think one thing that we learned in our time was that even though our struggle was extremely difficult, it was not unique. Like once we started saying it out loud, we found other people, other couples, other families that experienced similar feelings, similar feelings of discontent and uh, you know, like just um not feeling seen, known, understood, um, having feeling like all of the responsibility is on one side.
SPEAKER_01Well, and just to be a little bit more tangible with that, like it's like things like doing the dishes, things like cleaning up after yourself, things like um one big thing I read about the article is that I was a very passive husband in that I would wait to be told what to do. So, like I, you know, you'd say, like, I'm struggling in the house and be like, Well, just tell me what you need me to do, and I'll do it.
SPEAKER_00And that mental load was like, Can you just look and see? It's right in front of you. But also, like that, that like even went into like intimacy and stuff. Like, there was a passivity to intimacy and pursuing that, like, because now we were married and it's kind of automatic, it's just there. Like, no, I still wanted to be pursued and still wanted to be like cared for and known and loved. And so, like, that passivity went into like every aspect of marriage.
SPEAKER_01And I do think it came to it boiled down to like I didn't have the example, so I didn't know what pursuing looked like, what um being an active husband or active father looked like. So I really was waiting for you to take the lead, or not you take the lead, but more you tell me. Tell me what's the what's the standard you want me to live up to, and I'll do it. But you gotta tell me, which means which meant that like every day was a new challenge for you to come up with a way of letting me know gently what I needed to be doing, which is not your role. That should be.
SPEAKER_00And then also there was the comments back of like you're parenting me, or like, just let me do it because like I'm an adult. Obviously, I can take care of things, and it's like, but you just asked me to tell you. Well, don't tell me too much. I have no idea what you're expecting from me here. Right.
SPEAKER_01And that would that added an insane uh mental load and um on you, because now not only did you have to learn how to parent these two new new kids that we can't that one that's super colicky, but on top of that, you had to figure out how to communicate with me so that the house would run well, so there'd be peace in the home, so that I wouldn't be in a bad mood when I came home. And there's just so much that you were holding that you shouldn't have been holding. Um, and and I do again, that's why God led us to the the moment where we had to make a decision. Like, are we are we in this? Yeah. And do we have to make the hard conversations and the hard changes, or is is this something that we're just gonna let fester forever?
SPEAKER_00Right. So I share the article with other families because um, well, one, because it comes from a male perspective. And I think that's different because there's a lot of women that will share similar feelings. And I think I think it really highlights the the dad wound, the dad hole, the the lack of masculinity and positive male role models in the world. But that's for another conversation. But um, there's a lot of women that feel the same way, and a lot of husbands that think they're doing the right thing by going out and providing for their family. So they worked all day and they come home and they just want to be done for the day. And it's like, bro, the day's not over. Like, mom doesn't stop, wife doesn't stop, and neither should dad or husband. And like this is like when we are in the home, we are in this together and we're doing this together, and we're also spouses, so like we need to love each other and support each other and be romantic with each other, and it's a lot. I'm not saying it's not hard, but I do think um there's a there's definitely a pattern in the culture right now of of this being an issue for a lot of marriages. So I share your article a lot because it's not another wife harping on or explaining or uh, you know, like the term nagging. It's from the male's perspective of oh shoot, I switched roles with my wife and I was in that 24-7 and I got lost. I didn't know what to do, and then I found JP2.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh we'll link to the show, we'll link to the article in the show notes. Um so if you guys want to check it out, you can. Um what's and what's amazing to me, and what I think the the goal of this podcast is to to show couples that the the answers that they're looking for and how to you know how to fix those things, um, or even just like what the standard is for a husband, for a relationship, for love, um, for marriages, it comes from St. John Paul. It comes from a a celibate man who you would expect, or most like the typical couple might expect that he would have some great theological insight, which he does, but he has so much practical insight as well, that to the point that he could speak to so many different situations that will come up in marriage that if you could address now before you're in it, um, it'll make a world of a difference.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And he got that from like that was his passion as a priest before he became Pope. He spent so much time with young couples, young families. Um, that was where he he found a lot of grace and he found a lot of um inspiration from talking to couples. So we we read so many psychologists, right, who do so many studies and they interview so many couples and they, you know, counselors and they pull experience from that. And we now get this priestly perspective of doing the same thing with couples, but within the realm of of church teaching, of truth, of love, and of the sacrament. So a lot of his wisdom comes from those couples. So thanks be to God, those couples were open with him as he was, you know, forming his path to being a pope.
SPEAKER_01And and in today, so in today's episode, we're asking Saint John Paul the question. In the same way that I wish we had asked him this in when we were engaged and when we were preparing for marriage, or even in the first few years of marriage, if we were asking him um how if we were asking Saint John Paul by going to his writings and asking him, why do you care about marriage prep? Why why does it matter how we prepare for marriage? Um, what can we do if we did not prepare for marriage well and find ourselves in the thick of things? Um and this is a question that that we're bringing him today, and this is how I think he'd answer it. Um the answer that Monica's gonna read comes from Familiaris Consortio, which is an apostolic exhortation that he wrote in 1981. Um, and so this is this part that he writes is specifically for young couples.
SPEAKER_00All right, JP2, why do you care about marriage prep? And he says, more than ever necessary in our time is preparation of young people for marriage and family. Many negative phenomena which are today noted with regret in family life derive from the fact that in new situations, young people not only lose sight of the correct hierarchy of values, but since they no longer have certain criteria for behavior, they do not know how to face and deal with these new difficulties. But experience teaches that young people who have been well prepared for family life generally succeed better than others.
SPEAKER_01And that's why he wants us to prepare. Um, I think JP2 wants us all to prepare well, not just prepare for marriage in in the way we've seen it on TV or we've seen it in in other couples around us or in our families, like just like, oh, well, I'm gonna marry this person, we're gonna join our bank accounts, we're gonna join our mortgages, we're gonna get together and try to make a life together. Um he wants us to prepare specifically for the new situations and the new difficulties that are going to arise in our marriages that are going to arise as we start to join these things together.
SPEAKER_00Like, think about how crazy the concept of marriages, right? Like two complete unique individuals from different families, different lives, and putting them together and making a new family. Of course, you need to do something to get ready for that, right? And then not only are you joining it in that moment, but like now you have a lifetime to go of who knows what is gonna happen. So it is, it's important to prepare, it's important to have tools, and then also important to um like nowhere to turn if you don't know what's going on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the reality is that the the way that marriage prep should be done ideally is by our own families, right? We were we're we i in a world that is not uh broken because of sin and because of hurt and wounds and all the things that has that that are going on. Our families are to be supposed to be the first school where we learn how to be a family, how to be a married couple. We should know how a couple should be romantically, how they should interact with each other, how they should problem solve through what we should have seen from our parents. And most likely, if you're a millennial, you didn't see that because our generation is the most parented generation, uh the most the generation that's been parented the most by divorced couples, right? The the generation before us is has the highest rate of divorce. Our generation actually has less rate of divorce because we're avoiding marriage. Um but we're the ones that that didn't get to see a good family life, and now we're trying to create that and we are pulling straws because we don't know where to go.
SPEAKER_00Right. And personally, we both came from divorced parents. Like we came in, you were saying it before, like we came in with I don't want to do this. And like our our mission statement when we first got married is don't get divorced. And it wasn't an again, that's a passive, that's a passive mission, don't go there. Instead of what should we do? So we got to the point of probably where a lot of couples would start considering divorce, and praise be to God, we had committed to don't get divorced, but we didn't know what to do. So and and and we didn't have the best example growing up. Um, and so so we we were we were lost.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I like the way he words it in in this part that he says uh that young people lose sight of uh the of the correct hierarchy of values, um, and since they no longer have a certain criteria of behavior, they do not know how to face and deal with new difficulties. So, right off the bat, if you are dating, engaged, newly wed, or even if you've been married for a while, you're gonna have issues in a lot of there's there's gonna be new difficulties that arise in a in a multitude of areas of your marriage. So financially, there's gonna be stress. There's going to be financial stress. So when you prepare, it should be like, all right, what how are we going to handle when financial stress comes? Not how are we gonna prepare our finances now so that we are never financially stressed? Because that's not a reality. You are going to be financially financially stressed in some way or another. The same way that what are we gonna do about children? And not just like how many kids do we want, but like how are you gonna deal if infertility is part of your marriage? How are you gonna deal if you conceive and you have twins all of a sudden, or if you find yourself that you're, you know, you're struggling with with um with the fertile health of one of the spouses, like those difficulties will arise.
SPEAKER_00And I think a lot of times in marriage prep pregnant when you uh weren't planning to.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like what there's just a lot of difficulties that could arise. And I think in marriage prep and in in engagement and dating, we kind of gloss over that and and always think of best case scenario. Like, oh, you know, this is what how we would handle it if this goes, you know, if everything's great, or like even just your intimate life, how how is your sex life gonna be? Because I guarantee you there's gonna be difficulties and stresses and disagreements around that, especially because we've been given a culture that either they don't talk about it because it's this purity culture, like we we can't discuss any of it, or it's hypersexualized because the only education we've got as an engaged couple or as a dating couple or even as a newlywed couple was through pornography, or like because in our in our teen years, like that's what we saw, that's what we learned. All of that disorder is brought into marriage, and if we're not speaking of them as we're going in and and awaiting those difficulties and and preparing for those difficulties, when they come, we could definitely just fall apart because we don't have a criteria of behavior, we don't know, we don't have a hierarchy of value, we have no idea what we're supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_00Right. And these short snippets that we see on social media and in movies and in shows, um are I'm not saying that they're not true or not authentic, but it's like it's the best version, it's the best moment of the day. And like the day is 24 hours long, the week is seven days. Like we are not seeing every piece of everything, and so to expect our life to look like what other people are posting and sharing, or what this movie says love is supposed to be, or Hallmark movies at Christmas time, you know, have this great romantic thing, like that's not the whole picture, and that's not the whole hierarchy of needs, like you don't talk about like who's taking out the trash or what's for dinner because I had a long work to like those things don't come up, and even deeper than that, um, because this hierarchy of values to me, what what that makes it seem like sorry, I I hope this connects.
SPEAKER_01But what I think is even a deeper thing that you need to discuss in dating and engagement, and and especially if you're married, is do you as a spouse, do you find your worth as a person in in how you perceive yourself as a spouse, how you perceive yourself as a parent, how you perceive yourself as a daughter, as a professional. Are you do you because in our family we're supposed to learn that we are loved regardless of our of what we do, regardless of our achievements. We're supposed to be loved completely. You're accepted in this family, you belong in this family. And if we didn't learn that as a as a member of a family growing up, we are gonna think that our our achievements are what determines our worth in the new family we're creating. So you and I may not even be in disagreement, but because you're struggling at work or because you're struggling with the kids or because you're struggling another else in your life and you feel like I'm not worth anything, we'll start arguing and we won't even know why we're arguing because we haven't even uncovered that yet. So that's even a question to ask in your dating relationship. Like, do you think you're worthy of love and belonging just because of who you are, or do you feel like you have to achieve that? Because in a relationship, if you try to achieve your worthiness and your belonging in a relationship that's supposed to be unconditional love, you're gonna struggle. We're gonna struggle.
SPEAKER_00Right. And that's where you know, that's where the beauty of the church is not is not antiquated. It's actually like we are we are distorting marriage in a culture because the sacrament of the church is reminding us, it's like screaming from the rooftops, you are worthy, you are beloved, you are worthy of total faithful, lifelong commitment. You're worth that, and like you're worth the sacrifice of making that happen. And your spouse is supposed to be like that image of God telling you that that you are beloved, and I and I'm here with you no matter what, and we're doing this together. Um man, like like our family is the image of the Trinity.
SPEAKER_01And and I like how I like how he ends this um this this particular segment with um that experience teaches that young people who have been well prepared for family life generally succeed better than others. So he cares about marriage prep, and the church cares about marriage prep, or at least should to this extent, because they want us to be, or at least I know St. John Paul wants us to be sex successful in our marriage. He wants us to succeed, so he wants us to be so well prepared. Um being well prepared does not mean that you will you will um just you know, it comes and you're like, oh, this is easy, easy work. Like if you prepare for an athletic event, so like as coaches, like we might um come up with a lot of athletic analogies, but like our teams prepare, we practice, they work hard. That does not mean the competition was easy, right? But you are prepared for that hard competition, and that's what Saint Jean-Paul wants for every single couple is that they're prepared for when these difficulties come so that they're able to meet them, they're able to struggle through them, they're able to suffer through them. There's gonna be a lot of tears, a lot of a lot of hurt words, but they're prepared to see it through.
SPEAKER_00Right. And he says further down in in this section from Familiaris Consortio, marriage preparation has to be seen and put into practice as a gradual and continual process. So the format right now, the weekend retreat. The one day workshop at the diocese, the one day at your parish, five meals with a mentor couple, like this is not substantial enough. Like marriage prep deserves and requires a continual process. And it doesn't, it shouldn't stop on the day of your wedding. Like marriage prep is ongoing. It's continual. And like we as a church institution needs to do a better job of that.
SPEAKER_01And he says that.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Right? He says the church must therefore promote better and more intensive programs of marriage preparation in order to eliminate as far as possible the difficulties that many married couples find themselves in. And we know that it that's not happening because what like you said, the most that we see is weekends away or you know, or a a day away, where you talk about theology of marriage for a little bit, and then you talk about, well, this is communication, sex or sexuality, money management, how to do a budget. Like the church kind of just throws quickly at you, like here, these are the things you might see, but they don't even go into depth of like the difficulties that will arise are gonna be this. Some places do. Some places do give some give um testimonies from other couples that you know, I went through this, I went through that. But I think more beneficial would be to have couples go into their baggage together of like, all right, this is the financial stuff, this is how to budget. How did your family deal with money? What were the money fights your families went through? What were the money fights my families went through? How did your family discuss when like the you know, money when you know, family vacations, how many vacations did you guys go on, how many vacations did I go on? How do we see vacations? There's just so much stuff because what what one of our struggles was that we vacationed differently, just because I just brought that up as an example. Like we vacationed very differently as as growing up. So then when we went on vacation together, we had completely different expectations, and then we start, and that became an argument.
SPEAKER_00We were fighting on vacation because we didn't talk about this, we didn't prepare ahead of time.
SPEAKER_01Right. So, or even like so there's just so many different aspects of family life that that to an extent the church can't do all of it for you. It this is legwork that you have to do. Um, but one of the efforts of this podcast is to to be a voice in that realm to help couples do it, right? To help couples actually jump in and like all right, have these hard hard conversations now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So our goal is is to kind of have these conversations in front of you or over your sound waves. Um, but like, yeah, going into these different topics, um, talking about how we've experienced them, and then also like always bringing them back to John Paul the Great and how would he address them? What does he think about them? Um, what does the church say about them? And um, I'm I'm really excited. I'm really excited.
SPEAKER_01I don't want it to make it seem like this is just a practical podcast, right? Because yeah, so St. John Paul did bring these things up. Um, this is how how he affected our marriage. Um, but at the end of the day, God brought us there to allow grace to work in those moments. So the difficulties did come up, the difficulties will come up in your marriage. Um, but there's a difference in going in them with all the wisdom of the world, and there's a difference with going in them and understanding that grace is there. Um, because grace is gonna bring you to those difficult moments, and grace is what's gonna get you through. That the got the life of God within the two of you who are now a sacrament is what's gonna get you through. But it's important to also have the tools because if you if you just rely on the grace all the time, God is gonna, God wants to sanctify you, right? God wants you and your spouse to be ready for heaven. And if you're only relying on the grace, but you're still continuing to make the same mistakes, he's gonna allow that that relationship to slowly deteriorate to make you meet those moments and actually have the hard conversations.
SPEAKER_00We have to cooperate. We have to cooperate with God's grace. It's not like God works through miracles, but more often he works through us and our actions and our behaviors. Um, I think this goes into the next thing that we wanted to say. John Paul said um in his letter to families in 1994. I speak with the power of God's truth to all people of our day, so that they will come to appreciate the grandeur of the goods of marriage, family, and life. So that they will come to appreciate the great danger which follows when these realities are not respected, or when the supreme values which lie at the foundation of the family and of human dignity are disregarded. He's saying exactly what you just said, like marriage is good and it is like it's where we start. It's the foundation, and they and it is valuable, and we can rely on that, and then with that truth, with that truth of our belovedness and the goodness of the sacrament, we need to go out and respect that and act on that. I just love how he goes into, he's always reminding us of like of the goodness of the sacrament, that like struggle and sacrifice and suffering and these these falls to vice and sin within our marriage. Ultimately, like you said, like they're gonna lead to healing and they're gonna lead to goodness because marriage is good, because family life is good. And even if we didn't have examples of that, that doesn't negate the truth of it.
SPEAKER_01So so John Paul 2 wants us to prepare for marriage, to prepare for these difficulties so that we could have a good marriage where grace is allowed to flow uninhibited, that God is just able to work and allow things to happen and we trust in him and we know his will is good, and that it's a marriage that is holy for our families, that supports our families, that supports the the the community we have around us. Um, we believe that marriage can change the world. We do believe that every married couple has uh an impact that they can make around them that they don't even realize. And and being able to build up, build up good marriages is why marriage prep is so important. And I believe that's what he was writing, and that's what he was saying. We have to build up that grandeur, we have to build up that good, uh, the good, the goodness of marriage and and remind people that it's worth fighting for, it's worth preparing for, and then when you're ready and you're in it, it's worth fighting for and seeing it to the end. Um, so uh, and I I do think that he he would say that too. He said it throughout his papacy. Um, I believe he's saying it from heaven, and and he wants to change people's lives, he wants to bring them closer to Jesus so that they could have that beautiful marriage they've always wanted.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review. Also, don't forget to connect with us on Instagram at To Become Family. And tell us what would you ask if you had pre-cana with the Pope.