Two Become Family Podcast: Conversations and Encouragement For Your Catholic Family
Welcome to the podcast where we echo the words of St. John Paul II and encourage families to "Believe in what you are!"
We are Renzo and Monica Ortega, we've been married 13 years, we have 5 kids, and our apostolate, Two Become Family, encourages Catholics who love the Church, love each other, and still feel like marriage and family life is harder than it's supposed to be.
Through our very candid, and sometimes uncomfortably vulnerable, conversations about sex, NFP, conflict, family life, we hope to spark conversations between you and your spouse leaving you with a little more joy and a lot more hope that you have what it takes to be a family.
Visit us at https://twobecomefamily.substack.com for more for your marriage
Two Become Family Podcast: Conversations and Encouragement For Your Catholic Family
180. Lent - Changing Our Aim
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Why does parenting feel so overwhelming, even when we’re trying to do everything right? In this episode of Two Become Family, we explore how much of our stress, guilt, and burnout as parents comes from aiming at the wrong goal. When success is measured by calm children, good behavior, or having everything under control, everyday family life can quickly feel like failure.
“Changing Our Aim” invites Catholic parents to rediscover the virtue of magnanimity, the call to live with a greatness of soul that aims beyond perfectionism and control. Rather than shrinking our expectations out of fear or comparison, magnanimity helps us set our sights on the true goal of parenting: forming hearts for love, virtue, and holiness. Through the lens of Lent, we talk honestly about missing the mark, feeling discouraged, and how re-aiming our hearts allows God’s grace to do the real work.
This episode lays the foundation for the entire Lenten series by reframing parenting not as performance, but as participation in God’s slow, faithful work of transformation in family life.
In this episode, we discuss:
•Catholic parenting during Lent
•What magnanimity really means for parents
•Why control and perfection increase parental burnout
•How changing your aim reduces guilt, shame, and comparison
•Raising children with faith, hope, and trust in God
Welcome back. And now we are recording number two, episode number two in our Lenten series. So last week we released before Ash Wednesday, we talked about how uh we needed to be humble and how Lent kind of starts us in humility, recognizing where we are, honestly. Um, and now we're gonna be talking about a little bit where we're going. So last week we focused on the virtue of humility. Uh today the virtue we want to focus on is the virtue of magnanimity. Um so magnanimity comes from, I don't know, again, it's a Latin root, I'm assuming, magnus meaning great, and animus meaning soul. So it is a greatness of soul that we um are called to exhibit. It's a virtue, so it's not pride, so it's not thinking the greatness of ourselves, um, but recognizing again that we have a God-given soul and we create an image and likeness of God. And because of that, there's a responsibility and a power within us that He has given us to be great. And a lot of times we think that that's in that's in um competition with like the Jesus is called to be meek and quiet and humble. Um, but the reality is that you can't really live out the virtue of humility without the virtue of magnanimity. Um, because all the things that we talked about last week about having having to be humble and like recognizing where we are, we do. We all recognize we're we're all struggling if you're still here with us. But then we still have to do something. And that thing is raise kids. And that is not an easy thing to do. That is a that is a call to greatness in itself. Um, so recognizing that in our humility we are struggling as parents and that we know we want to do better, in order to be able to set our aim well and to change the trajectory of where our parenting may be headed, we have to believe that we are called to something greater. And in order to believe that, we have to have the virtue of magnimity, believe that we are called to, again, not greatness for ourselves, but greatness for God, greatness for our kids, greatness to serve. Um, so we have to believe that we have something good within us that is willing and and that should be shared with those that we're serving.
SPEAKER_01And part of humility is um there's kind of two parts to humility. Part of it is recognizing the truth of some of your shortcomings and some of your failures, acknowledging them in a position of guilt instead of shame. So it's a behavior or a habit that um I that is that is not for my good or is not for the good of my family, and that I can participate in the healing of that, I can participate in the correcting of that. Some of it will be for my human formation, some of it will be because I can't do it, so God needs to do it and and I need grace to do it. And then part of humility is again living in the truth of who you are, that you have some really great things. God has given you talents, God has given you particular gifts, God has made you in this particular way. And for you to not acknowledge those is also not humble. Like you should acknowledge that there are pieces of you that are great because God gave them to you and your family is meant to experience those. So you should learn more about yourself, to know more about yourself, to acknowledge those parts of you so that you can share that with others. So that's where the magnanimity comes in, too, of like taking this greatness, this greatness of soul, and giving it to others, sharing it with others, and for our purposes, your kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and for for God's glory and for your family to thrive. So when after we talked about last week, how every all the areas that we could struggle with and acknowledging our struggles, we're gonna focus today on how to change our aim. Um, and so we're gonna go over five ways that we can shift. So it's really hard to give advice. Um, number one, because there's so many different people out there giving advice. Um, so we're gonna try to not give particulars, but more of like give overall like different lenses to see things through. Um, because no matter how much we tell you, like do XYZ, you're gonna be more patient. You're probably not gonna be more patient. I'm not more patient. Um, but I think that the the struggle is that we actually, as Catholics, we struggle with how to build virtue. We kind of think it's just a thing that is going to be infused in us, and then like, oh, God has given me virtue. I'm going to daily mass now, so then I'm I can go there for it, be more patient. And that's not really how virtue is built. Um, it's built through consistent habits. And if we are living in the American culture, building good habits is difficult anyway. I've been trying to not use my phone so much for years, and I'm still struggling for that. So there it's it's very difficult to be able to build these habits. So, what we're gonna do is give you lenses that you could start seeing different scenarios in your parenting through and hopefully start giving you different things that you could start building as habits that you could hopefully change down the line. And we're gonna talk about all how even like looking down the line is a positive thing in the idea of magnanimity. It is not an immediate change that you're gonna have after this episode, but hopefully God is gonna start working now and you can start building and working with him.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so one position that you might be currently in that you recognize that you're in, is that you like, prefer, tend towards being in control, and we'd like to kind of help redirect that towards being faithful.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Because we have kids and we've had kids for 11 years, almost 12 years. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01When this is released, it'll be almost it'll still be almost 12.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, and as much as we are in we are the parents and we're in charge, very seldom are we in control. Right? We have the final say for a lot of things, but like we can't direct and make them do anything. Um, and I think that's very hard. Like the most we can't really engineer things, we can shepherd, and they can be like dumb sheep just dumb sheep just like hitting the doing this.
SPEAKER_01Listen on a like when you have when you have your shepherd's crooks, they're used to kind of bring the sheep back in line. You tap them on one side and then they go too far to the left, so you tap them again on the left side and they go too far right, and it keeps it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and that's exactly that's exactly what happens in the house. Yes. How we get them to go to the bathroom. Go brush your teeth.
SPEAKER_01It's late.
SPEAKER_00Yes, all the things like there's there's very little that we can we can control. And I think just because we're not in control does not mean we can't be great.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And can't do this great. And I think that shifting from control to faithfulness is very well.
SPEAKER_01Because if we stick to just trying to be in control and manipulate the situation or have the right hacks, or if I just had the perfect schedule, then they would do what they're supposed to do. Um if I give them the right diet, if I send them to the right school, like if we're trying to again like engineer this, manipulate this, like create this environment for our kids to become perfect, then we're gonna drive ourselves crazy because they're not going to be. And so we have to relinquish a part of the control. Again, not the responsibility, not the authority, but the control element of it and direct that towards faithfulness. Because if we can switch that from like, okay, I'm going to be here and I'm going to do my best, I'm going to learn what I can learn. I'm going to get to know my kids and how they work and try to shepherd them and direct them as much as possible. They're not going to walk in a straight line. But like, if I can, if I can show up and do that, and then also trust that God is going to use my efforts and bring blessings to my family. And that my kids also have to experience some of this learning and and trial and error and failure themselves. That's going to be different than like always just trying to control the outcome.
SPEAKER_00Right. So, like, so two things come to mind. One, the idea that faithfulness um well, two things came to mind, one just left. Hopefully that will that one will come back.
SPEAKER_01What's that shepherd? Not a second one just left.
SPEAKER_00Dang it.
SPEAKER_01Sorry. That's so funny.
SPEAKER_00I had to.
SPEAKER_01Now I only have one.
SPEAKER_00I didn't interrupt. I did great. Dang it. Well, the thing I had to remember is the idea that that so being in control is immediate, right? You want immediate results, whereas be being faithful is definitely playing the long game of just whatever the second thing now. So it's still the first thing. So being in control is immediate, being faithful is about the long game. And looking down the line of like, I'm staying and doing this. You know, there's a virtue of fortitude, virtue of courage. So, like the virtue of fortitude, virtue of courage, of staying in the course, like that's what faithfulness is, and that's what it encompasses faithfulness. Whereas in being in control, like you want quick results. I want you to do this now. Look at you have to listen to everything I say. And a lot of times being in control and forcibly being controlled by like whatever manipulations and and um um consequences and whatever you give the kids, like, oh, they're gonna listen, that usually doesn't yield the best results because like that could be like, oh, they'll listen to you while you're here and you're yelling, but they're not gonna listen to you when you're you're not here or when your back's turned or whatever. Whereas if we could be faithful to what we've the second thing was like, if we could be faithful to the decision we made, like okay, our decision for our families, like we're homeschooling, um, we are doing a co-op, we're doing things this way, behaviors are still gonna come up. And because we're gonna be faithful to those decisions, we are going to see how we can address them within the framework that we decided on instead of just blowing everything up, like we have to change everything because this isn't working. Um, I think the faithfulness there is also important because it's again, it's not about immediate results, but it's about shepherding them over time for both.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think, I think um, being in control could probably lead towards behavior modification. Like you could probably get the desired immediate outcome. You can you can eventually figure out how to get them to do the thing you want them to do more often than not. I don't know about 100% accuracy. Whereas being faithful really lends itself more towards like the transformational learning, like the the wholeness of the learning. So it's not just, it's not that I just don't want you to climb on the table when there's food there, but like it's this idea of like politeness and manners and settings matter. And like, so what am I what am I hoping for my kids to learn from the behavior I'm trying to get them to do? Um, faithfulness, I think, lends more towards that whole understanding versus like in this context at this time, you should not do this behavior or you should do this behavior.
SPEAKER_00That's something um Joe Erman, the coach, used to talk about the um transit kind of being transactional versus being transformational. Whereas, like, oh, you like you're gonna do this because I said do this, and that's like the transaction versus like you're doing the right thing because our relationship over time transformed the person you are. And like that's what we would want. And I think that only comes from putting on the lens of like, are you in the middle of chaos instead of trying to be in control of the chaos? How can you be faithful to again the the family culture you and your spouse put together? Like, how are we going to implement this here without having to control every little thing about it?
SPEAKER_01Right. And I think that this kind of your example was great for this next one is the um the desire or the the goal of feeling calm versus responding with charity. So I think that there's a big push to like and I I don't want to totally knock gentle parenting, but like this this idea that I've never heard of her. Sorry, people don't leave don't leave it this idea that um the end goal is for me to calmly respond to everything that happens with my children. And I think that that's not a whole goal, right? And I think that we should try to transition or reframe or or put on a new lens that responding with charity is more magniminous than magnanimous. Magnanimous. Thank you. We need instead of just simply remaining calm.
SPEAKER_00Move the fingers.
SPEAKER_01I in my head was never mind. Magna stanta from the Santa Clauses on Disney Plus, Tim Allen is still funny. Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00I think it's important to to point this out of of shifting from feeling calm to responding in charity because there's going to be times where you don't feel calm and you still have to respond. And I think if we make the goal of like good parents always feel calm when they respond to their kids, I think that just sets us all up for failure. Um because like there's there's things that just happen and like there's chaos in the home, especially if you have a lot of kids. If you're asking Catholics to have a lot of kids for those who can, and then like wanting them to always be able to respond calmly, like that's very difficult. So I think um responding in charity, I think can at least help us reframe how we're responding. So like maybe I can't feel internally calm right now, but I could still be kind with my words and how I speak to our children, right? And and I will still feel like I'm I'm really frustrated right now. And there's been times, even like for myself, I've said to the kids before I respond, like, I'm sorry, I'm very frustrated with what's happening because I've asked you more than once and I'm having a hard time being calm about this, but this is what you need to do. And and it that's been enough for them to not receive it as daddy's just be mean, daddy's just angry with me, but like being able to recognize that like I'm human, I also have my own feelings. I wish I could respond calmer right now, but I can't. This is what needs to happen right now.
SPEAKER_01I think we've also in experimenting with different styles of parenting and and our experience of parenting and then also observing other parents through coaching and youth ministry and teaching. Um, I think that we've also come to this. This is again, this is Monica and Renzo, but we've come to this idea that not everything actually deserves a calm response because there are some situations that are emergent or urgent or need firm and like that your response shows them, demonstrates to them the gravity of what needs to be responded to.
SPEAKER_00So if you're on help defense and you're helping the point guard after he got beat, you have to move your feet and get in front of the guy and not just reach out for the ball. There were so many times I had to yell about stuff like that. And that deserves a not calm but charitable response. Move your feet.
SPEAKER_01Move your feet, right? So I think that there's I think that that happens a lot in parenting as well. That like to demonstrate the the gravity of what I'm telling you, you need my voice needs to be raised, or that like you need to come right now. This has to happen immediately, or what have you. Um, but that can all still be done in charity. That can be done in in love, and that can be done um and again, like it can still be done gently, but maybe not calmly. Like, so I think that there's there's some nuance to this, but um, I think calm should not be the end goal.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I think the charitable part could be like make sure there's no you're not putting the the child down, you're not insulting them, you're not shaming them, like making sure that like you're you're saying everything you you want to say without adding those extra bits of like getting back at them for not listening to you the third time, fourth time, fifth time.
SPEAKER_01But like all yeah, and then there's a certain like toddlers try to kill themselves all the time. So like you don't have to react calmly to them like about to fall off the playground. You can like this witch.
SPEAKER_00Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Anyways, all right.
SPEAKER_00Third one.
SPEAKER_01All right, so third shift in perspective where you are to maybe where a more magnanimous goal. Um, outcomes you can see versus trusting the process. So a little bit kind of like the behavior modification where you're saying.
SPEAKER_00Yes, this is this is a little bit, it sounds like the being in control thing, but it's not in the sense of like there is things that you are going to like send your child off to do, or are things you're gonna put in place that you're not in control of or else like in my mind, what I was thinking of when I wrote this was like you sign them up for it for a sport, sign them up for an activity, sign them up for something that they're supposed to be doing, and then you sign them up for that because you want them to get better at whatever virtues, right? I want them to be more disciplined, I want them to you know be learn to follow rules, to follow through, whatever. And sometimes when you do that, the kids don't respond the way you hope they would right away. And then the the the um temptation is to pull them out, like oh, see, this is or or they say, like, I don't like this anymore, or like this isn't fun. And you want to pull them out, and they're the you want to just trust the process, like there's a process to this. And so I'm thinking these particular sports because like I've seen it as a jiu-jitsu coach, I've seen it as a basketball coach, that like there's people want certain things out of activities, and then if you don't see it right away, you're like, Oh, this isn't for me, or this isn't for my kid, and then and the process is longer. So, learning to just trust the process for for a lot of things for our kids. That could be potty training, that could be so many things, like instead of just trying to get immediate results. Um, so this is something you can't control with your voice anyway. Just like I want them to gain this virtue, I want them to gain this ability. A lot of times, a lot of times we have to just trust the process.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think um, I want to go back to what you had said before, like a family culture or maybe a family mission, like kind of having these goals for our family, these long-term goals that we see like down the road. This is what we hope for our family. And then we make different decisions, we put things in place, we include other people, we include other activities to try to help our family get towards that aim. And and hopefully through this, it's it's a magnanimous aim that you're going towards. Um, and so I think this is yeah, like when you make some of those decisions of like the strategies, the the skills to get from there, from where we are to where we're hoping to go, um, to give some of that time to to really allow for transformation instead of just changes in behavior. Another thing I've been thinking of is that like with some of our kids who have some special needs, and it might be therapy or it might be um it might be like a new education strategy, it might be um implementing a new routine or a schedule. I'm not trying to knock those things, but like when you do that, to give it time to work, to do what it's meant to do, because if if you really want this long-lasting internal transformation, that cannot be immediate. Like that, that just won't be immediate. So to trust the process, um, because maybe they don't want to go to the practice, maybe they don't want to go to these appointments, maybe um you don't see the the the change that you want to see, and you're starting to get nervous, you're gonna get anxious about it, and you you want to you want to see it happen now, you want to know that it's gonna work, um, to give it time um to notice the small changes and maybe like to to um to just acknowledge that it it it it won't it won't be groundbreaking, but that that might actually be better um in the long run.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01The next one is I think I think maybe, but this is how I'm reading the one that you wrote down. Um for for us, like where we are in our humility, acknowledging as as parents that we are not always doing it right, um, but we have this desire to do it right. So doing it right versus loving them well. And so the way I'm reading it is more parents. Tell me, tell me more like mom and dad versus like the kid, but like that um that I can get so stuck in like looking at these parenting strategies or looking at like what the influencers say or what these other people say, and that I'm like I have to do it right. And if I'm not seeing what I want to see for my kids, then it must be because I'm doing it wrong. Um, so I'm I'm very stuck on doing it right versus aiming at like loving the child I have in front of me well. Um, and again, like there's there's still hope for things to go right, but like the the shift is towards loving the right.
SPEAKER_00Right. Because I think the lens shouldn't be trying to check the right boxes to say that like I'm doing this particular um, I don't know, this method or exercise or whatever correctly. Um and seeing those different, like the different advice that you might get online, like anything you get from us, like all of it should help you in your aim of loving your child well. And if those things become distractions from how you love your child, then I think you shouldn't be doing them. Um this could be anything. So like, so like for example, like Monica mentioned some of our kids have special needs. So like one of the things her uh we'll share more about that in future episodes, but so like one of our kids, um, because of that, they need a very tight routine, right? They need a very, very good routine um where it's predictable, they know what they're supposed to be doing, what expectations are every day. And if one of the ways Monica does that is by writing out everything that is going to be done every day on a chart, right? So like everything the day that's gonna be encompassed in that day, she writes it out so that the child can look at the schedule and be like, oh, okay, this is what I expect from the day. Because if they don't know what's happening, there's a little bit of anxiety that comes up, there's a little bit like of just feeling of uneasy uneasiness that could lead to um issues later down the line if like schedule changes too quickly. Like just there's a lot of things that come down the line. Um, however, there's times where she doesn't get a chance to fill out that calendar because or the schedule because like the day is just hard, things are going moving quickly, she forgot to do it the night before. And if it gets to the point that you start feeling anxiety within yourself as a parent because you haven't filled out that calendar, like, oh my goodness, I missed it again. Oh my goodness, now all these things are gonna happen. And now suddenly that is something that's detracting from your ability to love your child. I think that's a problem, right? So, like this tool that you're using is good and it's to help you love your child well. But then if it suddenly becomes a thing that like you start resenting your child because you I have to do this all the time because of you, or like, darn it, I missed it. Now the whole day's ruined, like all those things start coming up. I think that's when it's a problem. And and we need to make sure that we have our lenses on of these things that I do are to love you well. And if I miss it, sorry I missed it, and I'll do better next time. But again, in humility and magnanimity, like I'm just trying to love you well. You don't have to say this to your kid more like reminding yourself like, this is the way I love my kid well. Maybe I missed it but how else? Can I love them well throughout the day today? Now that I know they're gonna struggle because they don't tap me with the calendar, like how can I prepare them better? Because then if you shift it, it doesn't become a a like a ding I'm in your own armor because like I missed this thing, but it's like okay, I miss this, but now I have other opportunities or other ways to love them well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think that there can be a temptation to make an idol out of the things, the systems that work for us. So that like they are the the golden ticket, like they're the they're the thing that makes everything work well. And and the reality is it's like, no, it's it's your relationship that is going to make this long game happen well. And so And all these are tools. These are right. So like making an idol of the tools that we have, the systems that we have, in instead of focusing mostly on the relationship building and the like the the interactions between parent and kid. And like we use this tool to help us, but really like we're gonna get through this together and we're going to practice being adaptive together. And when we're not, we're gonna be like, okay, it's because things didn't go as we anticipated, and that's we acknowledge that, right? Like in humility, we acknowledge that that's a that's an area of our life that is hard. And you're right, it is hard, and we're gonna we're gonna come up with a new new idea, we're gonna keep working. And so I think that um I think that sometimes tools and systems can detract from that relationship building. Um, and and because that like that thing stands in between because we're both we both need that thing outside of ourselves when really like what we need is to to be parent and kid.
SPEAKER_00Last one.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and this one's a biggie um comparison versus calling.
SPEAKER_00Can I tell you how I interpreted that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, please do.
SPEAKER_00So please do, because I don't know. I don't know your brain.
SPEAKER_01I don't know my thoughts, but I like to.
SPEAKER_00One thing that you've always said a lot is that all kids are so uniquely different, all parents are so uniquely different, and that you feel like you are chosen to parent these particular kids, and that's like how you've been called. And I think because of that, it is incredibly silly to ever compare ourselves to other parents because like they're not our kids. Like they don't know, like they don't they didn't get our kids, we didn't get their kids. Like, we're just we're different people, different life experiences. We're so uniquely different, and then they're so uniquely different that like you were called to parent these kids that you have. And because of that, we should never see ourselves as comparing ourselves to others, but instead, like finding ways that we can support other parents, and because they have their own unique um struggles and we have our own unique struggles, and part of the magnanity is that like we we are humble enough to recognize that we all struggle and we're magnanimous enough to then want to be great, do great things for God, serve our kids, serve our families, but then also take that service and expand it beyond just our unique family.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00That's what I thought when I like that.
SPEAKER_01I like that a lot. Yeah, and that like recognizing that our calling as parents is is again beyond good behavior, but like good people, and that we are trying to create a good family. So it's not just it's not just the behavior, but it's the wholeness of it. And that's the difference too between comparison and calling, because when you are comparing, all you're looking at is like the external. You're looking at what you can see, what these other people have, what these other people do, how they talk, what they're driving, how they're dressed, if they're messy or clean or what whatever. And so comparison misses the like the deeper wholeness versus the calling, like our calling as a family, their calling is their family, and that like their mission, their culture is going to be, it should be slightly or very different from ours because God created that family, God created our family. We were called to participate in it uniquely because we are us and not them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Perfectly said. Thank you. That's it. So that is how we think we should be moving from humility to magnanimity, uh, moving from the reality of Lent that like we have struggles, that we don't have it all together, to then also recognizing the call that we have as Christians, that that we are called to be great in our service to God, our service to family. And how do we how do we uh connect the two? Uh we think that just shifting how we see things, shifting and having different lenses of how we see the same struggles every day, but how we interpret them, how we see them, and how we slowly start bringing them closer to God doesn't mean that our struggles won't be there because again, in Lent, we are just reminded of them, um, but also reminded of a victory that comes in. And you could have a daily victory, you could have a you're gonna have a bigger victory at the end of your life. Um, but recognizing that God is in those struggles with us and that he's still calling us to be great.
SPEAKER_01And if you like this episode, you like this podcast, please rate and subscribe and review and do all the things that everybody at the end of their episodes asks you to do. Okay. And next week we are covering missing the mark. So when we are trying to do the right thing and we don't quite hit it right on the right on the mark, um, that failure is a part of our growth. It's part of our journey. And so hopefully this reframing from this week will help translate into more reframing.
SPEAKER_00So many frames.
SPEAKER_01So many frames. We will see a gallery wall.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Gallery of failure and good things. We will see you at the next episode.