Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About!
Divorce 101- From ‘I Do’ to ‘Do I Go?’ with Lisa Miller
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“Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell, rather than an unfamiliar heaven.”
Whew. We’ve all been in this dilemma.
This week on Women & Money The Shit We Don’t Talk About, we’re joined by Lisa Miller @Lisamiller.coach, relationship and divorce coach who helps people decide whether they wanna stay or go in their marriage and then supports them through the entire process, regardless if they stay or go.
And let us tell you, nothing was off the table. Lisa shares her own story of being stuck in the should I stay should I go phase for years, raising three boys, feeling depleted, and realizing something had to change.
Lisa reminds us that we don’t need catastrophe to justify leaving. We don’t need abuse. We don’t need addiction. Sometimes the truth is simply this. You’re not happy.
And clarity is powerful. If you’ve ever asked yourself ‘Do I stay or do I go?’ this episode will hit home.
🎧 Listen to the full episode now to learn how to trust your gut, regulate your nervous system, and make decisions from clarity instead of fear.
If your goal is to preserve values & wealth to pass on security and intention to future generations, don’t miss our next Money Talks with Legacy Planning Attorney and Purse Strings Approved Pro, Kathryn Gioia. She’ll be sharing strategies & legacy planning to support all of life’s seasons. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!
This episode is supported by Marguerita Cheng, CFP®, RICP®, CDFA®, CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth. Marguerita works with women navigating divorce to bring clarity, confidence, and control back into their financial lives. At Blue Ocean Global Wealth, the focus is on helping women understand their options, make informed decisions, and feel empowered about their financial future, especially during moments that feel uncertain or overwhelming. If you’re going through divorce and want support that’s clear, grounded, and centered on
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Barb: [00:00:00] Maggie, have you ever heard of a divorce or relationship coach?
Maggie: Oh yeah.
Barb: Do you know anybody who's used em?
Barb: Shall I stay or shall I go?
Maggie: I was on the gram. I followed this other coach who was talking about how there are some decisions that we'll just go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, and it's not like a, it's not like a week, it's not like a month. It's like years, and it's always if I had more information or if I had this, it's always shit, yes, no, yes, no.
Barb: But you don't wanna pull the trigger.
Maggie: You don't, I don't think you wanna believe that, and sometimes I think it's 'cause you might wanna please others or you don't want it to be that way.
Barb: I think some people are afraid.
Maggie: I get that
Barb: Especially if it's cultural or from their family or something like that.
Maggie: religion is a
Barb: Yeah. Usually on 2020 or Dateline, they kill their spouse so they don't have to divorce 'em 'cause it's against their religion. It's the craziest thing.
Maggie: Then you might get some money too on that life insurance policy.
Barb: That's true.
Maggie: I think that's an easier option than paying an attorney. Just sharing.
Barb: Yeah, [00:01:00] but we are not recommending that.
Maggie: No, we're recommending a coach to help you decide if you stay or if you go, or a therapist or actually anything else besides murder.
Barb: But when you're in a long-term relationship, you have children and
Barb: you're not sure you know if that relationship is working for you or not. And it's a big decision, a really big decision to determine, do I stay in this and push forward even though I'm not quite sure about it, or I just cut my ties and move on?
Barb: Because when you divorce, it's a huge rippling effect, right? So sometimes you need a coach to help you think that through.
Maggie: And I think we've talked a lot about this due the financial aspect, right? Of living alone and earning an income and all those different things, but, there's also a huge part of it that's not even financial. It's just your emotion, if you walk past a person every time, they just, oh, drive you nuts.
Maggie: It's not a good hope for you to live in.
Barb: I [00:02:00] know it sounds awful, right? And then people have separate bedrooms or they don't even live together and they're still married. But really, what's a healthy outcome for yourself that has to do with your own internal desires for how you wanna live out the rest of your life in a happy, really fun way to live a life that's full of your own choices and all.
Maggie: So we're excited to have Lisa on the show today, who helps people decide, do I stay or do I go?
Barb: And let's see how she does it.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, [00:03:00] the shit we don't talk about.
Maggie: All righty. Today we have Lisa Miller on the show. We are excited to have you here. I know you just said you're from sunny California, so you're starting off in a warmer spot.
Maggie: But before we dive in today, can you start by just kind of introducing yourself to the audience, who you are and what you do?
Lisa: Absolutely. Well first thank you so much for having me, love being here.
Lisa: My name is Lisa Miller. I am a relationship divorce coach, so I help people really decide whether they wanna stay or go in their marriage and then help them throughout the entire process, regardless if they stay or go
Lisa: 'cause there's a lot of healing that needs to be done. There's a lot of clarity. I have my proven clarity framework that I use with all of my clients to get them really, like the goal is to be happy. If you're happy, I'm happy. Everyone's happy whether you stay or go. So that's what I do.
Maggie: I just keep thinking of the song. Should I
Maggie: stay or should I
Lisa: I think of it daily.
Maggie: I bet. I mean, I would just be living in my [00:04:00] head.
Barb: how did you get to this profession, Lisa?
Lisa: got divorced. That's, that's how we started.
Lisa: really I was in the, should I stay? Should I go phase for Gosh, like way too long. And did all the therapy and was kind of like banging my head against the walls of like. I just like
Lisa: can't get unstuck and I had three little kids. I was with my ex-husband for 20 years, married 14 of those years, I don't know how I'm gonna ever get outta this. And then, years of therapy, couples therapy, all the things. And like we ended up getting divorced and I ended up working with a life coach who literally transformed my life and I was like, I wanna help people do that. So I left my career. I worked in the entertainment industry for 20 years,
Lisa: left that, I became a certified life coach and have been helping men and women. People think I just primarily work with women and that is a huge part of my clientele. But I do help men too, because I go through the same things as women do.
Maggie: And so what do you think was such [00:05:00] the difference about going to therapy and then going to a life coach and having that be kind of the change? Because so often we're just like, oh, issue therapy. And so where would like a coach, you know, be different or how is that different for you?
Lisa: So I think actually like when you're trying to decide if you wanna stay or go, like life coaching, finding a relationship coach, a marriage coach, divorce coach, whatever you relate with is a huge, huge difference. Therapy, really the modality It's a beautiful modality.
Lisa: I did it for years. My brother's a therapist. You are focusing on your past to hear you today it's called talk therapy for a reason. You do a lot of talking, right? Most of my clients come to me after they're done talking. They're like, I need some tools. Coaching is more tool-oriented. It's more meeting where you are and taking you where you wanna go.
Lisa: So it's a lot more goal oriented. So when you're in a place of like, I don't know what to do, you need tools, you need like, okay, give me some concrete A, B, C. Like, how do I get to this place that I'm trying to go? Everyone who comes into [00:06:00] my world is like, I'm done being stuck, right? Talking isn't gonna get you there.
Maggie: That's fair. So when you looked back, what was the moment where you realized that you were done spinning your wheels and you needed relationship clarity that actually worked?
Lisa: So I, I have three boys.
Lisa: We got separated before we got divorced. My kids were nine, eight, and five.
Lisa: And I clearly like, remember looking at my youngest, he was like, mommy, like I don't know if you guys have boys. My son was like, I wanna play trash tracks with you. And like all my kids were very Trash trucks. Like they had like pretend trash truck and like, you know, whatever. Everything in me wanted to play with him, but like, I had no energy. I was like so depleted. I was like, I need something different. I was like on a hamster wheel and like, I
Lisa: was like, like get me off this same, get me off this ride.
Lisa: I don't wanna be on this ride anymore. And so I started like doing research and I was started following different kinds of coaching and I reached out to one I really resonated with. And like that's where the clarity started.
Barb: Wow. [00:07:00] It's interesting because, does love have to do with it because sometimes people leave because they're not in love anymore.
Lisa: Oh sure.
Lisa: I mean, what's love got to do with it. Now I have that song in my mind.
Barb: I know, I know. But it's like, shall I stay? Shall I go? I mean, some people are like, I gotta go, you know? But maybe they're still in love with them. I don't know.
Lisa: Yeah, I mean, I tell all my clients if there's just like an ember of love, just an ember, you can like get it to a full fledged flame, right? A lot of people don't know if they're still in love or if they just love the person because it's what, who they know it's their best friend. It's the father of their children. So that's part of the work we do is to find out like, am I still in love with this person or am I just staying because of my kids?
Barb: Right.
Lisa: I mean, love has to do with it, but I, but I would say, it's just one part of it, right? It's also, you need really good communication. You need connection, you need safety. Like, it's just not about love. I mean, if it was just about love, like, you know, we'd just stay with our best [00:08:00] friends forever.
Barb: That's true. So when women come to you and they say, I love him, but something doesn't feel right, what's the first real truth bomb that you give 'em?
Lisa: Are you in love with him or do you just love him? Do you still wanna have sex with him? Do you still desire him or does he walk by you and you're like, please don't touch me.
Maggie: I could see how that would not be successful.
Barb: That would be a sign.
Let's take a quick pause to hear from this week's episode sponsor. Divorce can shake your confidence, not just emotionally, but financially, and in those moments, you deserve a guidance that brings clarity instead of fear. Hi, I'm Marguerita Cheng, certified Financial Planner, retirement income certified professional, certified Divorce Financial Analyst, and CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth.
I help women going through divorce gain clarity, confidence, and control over their personal finances so they can make decisions that truly support [00:09:00] their future. At Blue Ocean Global Wealth, we focus on financial planning first because accessing competent ethical advice. Should not depend on the size of your investment portfolio.
Every woman deserves to feel financially confident, empowered, and resilient, especially during a life transition as significant as divorce. Visit blue Ocean global wealth.com to learn more about how financial planning can help you navigate divorce with greater clarity and peace of mind. Now back to our show.
Lisa: but people are still confused even in that moment. 'cause you're like, I want to desire my husband, I want to desire my wife, but I don't. Can I get it back?
Barb: Do you know why that happens? Why the desire goes away?
Lisa: Oh God, years of resentment. You know, feeling alone, years of trying to be heard seen, and it falls on deaf ears. Just years of like getting [00:10:00] into a groove of like, I mean, it usually happens after kids, right? So you're like in this place of, you're in a pattern. The pattern needs to be interrupted, broken, changed.
Lisa: And it takes work. It takes like, 'cause usually what happens is like people come to like a standstill. Well, I've been asking for this for years and he hasn't changed. And the other person's like, but I have changed, and I've made changes. The changes aren't what I'm asking for. And they're just like, fighting. Right. Both people have to meet each other in the middle, and both people have to want it, right? Both people have to want to make the relationship, the marriage work beyond just for the kids.
Maggie: And so it's Valentine's season and dating can kind of feel weird right now between politics, values and the way the world is going. Women are like, I'm not wasting my time. You know what I mean? And so what are three questions women should ask early on, like the first couple of dates to vet someone with that value and that mindset.
Lisa: Three questions to ask. So [00:11:00] I was a single woman for nine years. I mean, I dated a lot. I had a lot of interesting relationships and all the things. I was a professional dater. I'm now engaged. So I'm like, we're done doing that, but thank you.
Lisa: But I think in the beginning, in the first three dates, what you really wanna get to know is if you are aligned. So like what are your values? Like if you're looking for, and I hear this probably daily, I'm looking for depth. I'm looking for deeper than surface conversations. What does that mean? Like what makes you happy? What are you looking for long term? What excites you? And make sure like you guys are on the same page with those things.
Lisa: Otherwise, you're gonna end up probably very disappointed.
Maggie: Yeah, tough because I'm on the dating world. And a lot of people out there are like, I'm an open book. Ask me anything. You know? And then you'll ask him stuff. And it's very like, I want, you know, just very like vague things. Like, I wanna be happy, I wanna be with someone I love, like I want a family. It's like, so do the rest of us. You know? Like what makes it [00:12:00] different.
Lisa: Yeah. Like, go deeper with that. Like what does happiness look like to you? I promise you, like if you answered that and I answer that, it's gonna be very different answers.
Lisa: Right. But like, can we meet in the middle? Like, is your version of happy, does that excite me? I'm like, oh, like that's a good answer, right? Or are you like, eh, I mean, I went out with a guy and he was like telling me like his hobbies and I was like, that's my nightmare. I was like, no, like, this isn't gonna work. Right. So you can, you can vet people pretty early on if you ask the right questions for sure.
Barb: Yeah, that's interesting. I remember actually, I'm married now, but when I was dating this guy said, I see nothing better than just hooking my car up to a what do you call that?
Maggie: Whatever it is, you don't want it.
Barb: Mobile, whatever. And, you know, going out into the woods and just spending days there. And I'm like. Gotta
Lisa: Yeah. No. No.
Barb: I'm like four season. Yes. Woods. No.
Lisa: Yeah. And here's the truth. Like there's no right or wrong, but like, you gotta make sure you're not just going [00:13:00] after 'em 'cause they're hot. Like that's not gonna last either.
Barb: No, yeah. That's funny, Maggie. Hooking up to anything. Yeah, I'd be out of there.
Maggie: I heard a car and I was like, she's out. There's no car in her world. Like those people who do like the car shows or like all pull out their cars that are like the same kind and are all in a parking lot, like they do that kind of local in my house. And I'm like, that would never be my Saturday afternoon.
Maggie: Never would it ever, you know, and there's some things where you're like, I'd be open to learning, exploring. I never have, but it's not a no. And then there's other things we're just, nah. Nah
Lisa: Yeah. And you have to know your limits.
Maggie: Right. And so for couples who come and they want to make it work or they want to, you know, fall in love again, what are some steps to kind of help make that happen?
Maggie: How do you kind of coach 'em through this Who
Lisa: So there's a few things. Yeah. Like one it, it can't be one sided, so both people have to wanna be. In this marriage still. So my recommendation's always that each of them have their own coach or therapist, whatever they prefer, [00:14:00] and then they have one together. So they're, they're working on themselves and then they're working on the actual relationship, the union, right. So that, that's step one. And then two, they have to keep doing bits of connection. Right. So start small. Like, I mean, what's crazy is a lot of people come to me and they haven't had sex with their partner for years, and you're like, okay, so you're not gonna just jump into bed with them. But like, start with like holding hands, looking in each other's eyes, like maybe like sending like a sweet text throughout the day. Like all those things usually aren't happening and they seem so like, fundamental and like elementary, but you know, again, like there, there's a reason why they're where they are. So start small like that, those small bits of connection, will start to build trust between the two of them. And then it's like, okay, go on dates. Maybe don't actually drink, right? Like, just like be sober during the dates. See if you enjoy each other's company. No talking about work, no talking about kids. Like just start like is there a [00:15:00] friendship even there still, right? And then you can slowly like work your way up to more intimacy, more fun.
Barb: So, how long do you work with a client that you typically know they're gonna go down one road together or they're not?
Lisa: I never make that decision for them. That's always up to them. But my programs are all four, or seven months to start and then once they kind of complete that, then we decide together. I wanna keep going. I'll be honest, within those four or seven months,
Lisa: 90% of all of them get like the clarity. That doesn't mean, they act on it, that that's
Lisa: a whole different story. Right. So it starts like that.
Maggie: And so a lot of us settle kind of for comfort or avoidance. So how do you help women get curious about their nervous system? Kind of instead of just shutting down when it gets uncomfortable, 'cause that's kind of the easier route.
Lisa: So your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell, rather than an unfamiliar heaven. So [00:16:00] learning about your nervous system, learning how to regulate your nervous system is one of the most powerful gifts you can give yourself. That's a huge part of my program of just like, okay, like let's tune in. Trusting your intuition, trusting your heart what it's saying, how it's leading you, that's also really important. Knowing it's okay to say no. Right. As, as women, we often have the good girl mentality. We can't say no, we might get in trouble. So we get very like, stuck in like, well, this seems good enough, right? Like, on paper he's a, you know, he makes good money. He's a good provider. He seems like he'd be a good partner or a good dad. Like, so, like, ugh, like, like, you know, I should stay. But if your intuition screaming at you like, eh, like, as women, like we need to learn to listen to that even as men, right? Again, taking off the judgment, taking off the sh I always say there's no shitting in my practice.
Lisa: We don't should, right? Like, there is [00:17:00] no right or wrong, there's just what's gonna make you happy. If you truly like, focus on that, you're not gonna lead yourself astray like your heart's, your North Star. Right. So like learning how to trust that, which a lot of us have shut down is like, that's magical.
Barb: It's interesting that you say a lot of us have shut that down. I think there's also pressure from outside forces that are kind of like, he's a good guy, you know, he makes good money and what's wrong? I don't get it.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: I mean, absolutely. A lot of my clients are staying with a good guy because they're a good dad. Look like they're showing up for you. You have a good life. Like, why would you want anything else? And like inside, you're slowly dying. It's like, how do you trust that? Like what you're feeling is enough, right? And the truth is, it's enough because you're not in love anymore. That's a good enough reason. We don't need them to beat us. We don't need them to have an addiction. We don't need them to cheat on us. If [00:18:00] the marriage has expired, it's expired. And like we have to give ourselves grace and love and compassion to just be like, I'm not happy in this, I know I deserve to be happy. And by the way, so, so does your partner.
Maggie: Yeah, it is kind of, well, some people have it worse, so it's not that bad, and it's like, well, it doesn't have to be the absolute worst to be qualified, you know?
Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. It just, it has to be true for you, right? So, it's getting in touch with what is your truth and being okay with that. Being like, okay, like. And, and it, it's a process and it takes time. And you have, it's like I always say, baby steps to the bigger goal of like really knowing which way to go.
Lisa: And like, I've saved many marriages in my time. I am not pro divorced, by any means. Like that was the right decision for me and my family. That's not always the right decision. Again, there's like an ember of love, like by all means. Like see that out, right.
Lisa: I'm also a big believer you should like cross all your T's, dot all your I's like you wanna make sure you have like turned over every stone before you walk out that [00:19:00] door.
Lisa: You don't wanna go off of everyone else's judgments.
Maggie: Right, and so for those who are like, don't know much about getting more in tune with their nervous system and listening into it, what are like a couple or a small practice that they could do to start tuning into their nervous system. Just some easy ones that listeners can start implementing.
Lisa: So like nervous system regulation, like box breathing is probably the easiest, most common one, right? So it's like hold at the top for four, breathe out for four, hold for four. So you're like making a box. Right. That will bring you back into your body, but the part of your intuition is like, where are you feeling it? We all feel things in different places. If you're into yoga, it's like your chakras, right? So it's like your, your heart, your your tummy, your throat. Those are like probably the three most common. So like, if you're triggered, if you're like being dysregulated in some way, tune into the energy in your body.
Lisa: There is an epicenter, like I feel almost everything and like, depending on what it is, it would either be like, I'll get like knots in my tummy [00:20:00] or my chest will get really tight, right? I mean, I've been doing this a really long time, so like I'm super in tune with my body. Like I feel it immediately and I'm like, okay.
Lisa: And like, depending on what I'm doing, like either I'll do some box breathing, energy needs to move at all times. You don't want to have stuck energy. So anything like, if you can go on a run, go on a run. If you can go on a walk, go on a walk. If you're stuck in the snow and you can't leave your house, throw a dance party, right?
Lisa: You can even go on a drive, put music on really loud and like belt it out. That will like pour it out of you. Another beautiful tool is journaling, like getting your thoughts out on paper is an amazing way to move energy, get into nature. Put your feet in the sand, in the dirt, in the grass. Notice your senses. Those are all ways to regulate yourself.
Barb: Interesting. Any advice for women who are navigating the dating world so that they don't get into these relationships that may not serve them?
Lisa: Trust your gut, right? Like really, like lean in and [00:21:00] here's the thing.
Lisa: I would say the first six months anyone's gonna wear a mask. You are, I am, we all are. We're human, right? So we're gonna show our best self. Go slow. Go slow. Like, don't, like, and I'm not saying like, you know, don't go have fun, but like, just like know that like you're seeing the very best version of them right now.
Lisa: Some people can get to you wearing a mask, right? Your best protection is to go slow. Don't lose all your friends. Don't stop doing all your hobbies like still be you and still date them and like maybe like date a couple other people, like while you're dating them until like, you know, you guys get to a place of, okay, it's just you and I.
Lisa: But then still go slow. Like I would say the whole first year, just realize like you're still just getting to know that person. That's your best production.
Maggie: Yeah. It really is having, I mean, I think about myself. Yeah, of course you're gonna put your best foot forward and have all of that. [00:22:00] You can't blame anyone there, of course, you wanna show all your good sides. And so it is kind of like, alright, what's underneath that? And you don't wanna throw away everything else that you've had going on just for a fun surprise later.
Lisa: I'd also say like truly like ask the deeper questions, like if you're looking for a certain kind of depth. Be vulnerable. You have nothing, I mean, when I met my fiance, like I was at a point, I was like, I was healing from a off again on again relationship. That was very long. I think I was like six months out. I was not ready to be in a relationship. I was not what I was looking for. So I was kind of at a place where I'm, like, I'm gonna ask whatever I wanna ask. I'm gonna say whatever I wanna say. Like, not in a mean way. Like I'm a very kind person, but just like I'm not gonna hold back 'cause I'm scared, maybe he won't like me. I didn't care. Right. And so he got the most authentic version of me. And I got to ask questions and hear answers that like, I was like, oh, like that was, it was very intriguing, right? And I was like, oh, I like that. And if it didn't work out, I wasn't scared because I was like, you [00:23:00] like me or you don't like me, it's like I'm okay either way.
Barb: We do have one question that we ask everybody who comes to our podcast, and it is. Lisa, what does financial freedom mean to you?
Lisa: Peace. I have three kids. It's being able to send them on trips, go on trips with them, have experiences, wake up in the morning, not be worried about having to pay my bills, being like, just knowing it's all kind of taken care of. I mean, as a single mom of three, there was definitely some hardship on that journey. There were definitely years that I wasn't it like let's just be honest, right? I know that feeling and then I know the feeling of being on the other side and it's really just like waking up and being like, everything's taken care of and I get to like decide not from a place of scarcity, but a place of like, this is what I truly want, and like, live the life you're truly desiring.
Maggie: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Maggie: So when's the big day for the wedding.[00:24:00]
Lisa: We don't have one yet, but it won't be till 2027.
Maggie: Okay. good.
Lisa: Yeah. I'm not a great planner, so we'll start planning, but I have a kid graduating high school, going off to college. I have another kid who's in college right now. I have another kid who's graduating junior high, going off to high school this year.
Lisa: This year was like a big year. I was like, I can't do it this year. So we'll do it next year.
Maggie: A lot of things going on. A lot of things going on. Well, we appreciate you coming on and sharing your expertise and really how you help women and men kind of go through this transition and decide. Which way they wanna go. So yeah, we appreciate you coming on all of course, your links will be in the show notes so people can connect with you.
Maggie: And until next time, be financially fearless.
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