Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About! | Purse Strings
"We will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth." - Gloria Steinem. On this podcast, we're going to call out those ways that women are consistently left behind financially. But most importantly, how women can help themselves. Join hosts Barbara Provost & Maggie Nielsen as they help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. They'll connect you with helpful resources and compelling stories from women all across the country. Whether it's buying a house, preparing for retirement, dealing with divorce, there won't be a single question off the table. Maggie is a partner and Barbara is the founder of Purse Strings, a two-part model that's all about providing women the tools and resources they need to help them learn and understand what they need to know to make good financial decisions. And they help connect women with attorneys, financial planners, realtors, and many other financial professionals who have the expertise and desire to serve the female market. Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About can be your place for tools, resources, education and a place to ask the important questions on your mind (or even better, the - you know - you aren't talking about). Find out more about Purse Strings by visiting https://pursestrings.co/ and we can't wait to connect with you on the podcast!
Women & Money: The Shit We Don't Talk About! | Purse Strings
Empowering Women through smart Investing with Janine Firpo
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"I realized my money was actually invested in ways that were undermining me. It was invested in things that were creating the problems I was trying to solve."- Janine Firpo
Meet Janine Firpo, co-founder of the nonprofit Invest for Better and author of Activate Your Money. With a 35-plus-year career that took her from coding in Silicon Valley in 1981 to fighting international poverty with technology, Janine's path has never been ordinary. After retiring eight years ago, she took her money back from her financial advisors, started figuring it out herself, and founded a movement. Today, she helps women step into their economic power, not just by investing more, but by investing with intention and in alignment with their values.
In this episode, we sit down with Janine for one of the most eye-opening conversations we have ever had about women and money. This one goes deep. We are talking about what it really means to invest with your values, why most of us have no idea what our money is actually doing in the world, and how even small shifts can create a ripple effect that changes everything.
You will walk away with practical, no-overwhelm steps to start aligning your money with your values today, even if you only have a bank account.
Women are outperforming men in investing but we’re still less likely to start. If you’d like to take the next steps, Join us for next week’s Money Talks “Your Next Investment Move: A Step-by-Step Breakdown”. We’re getting into how to begin, what actually matters, and why the biggest risk is waiting too long. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!
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Want to take this conversation one step further? Join us for our next Money Talks, a free 30 minute live session where we’ll dig into a question we hear all the time from women business owners: Budgeting for Businesses to Offer Benefits. Click here to register for FREE and bring your questions!
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Dr. Barb: [00:00:00] Maggie
Maggie: Mother
Dr. Barb: Imagine if women always had equal rights And there was equality in the world always. How different the world would be?
Maggie: We'd be on Mars. I mean, it would be night and day difference
Dr. Barb: Yeah, and that was the question posed by Sheconomy, and they put it in an algorithm that figured out what it would look like. [00:00:30] And the world would be in such a better place, in better shape, with better healthcare, with better, you know, recognition of women at all levels And it's just so powerful to think about. But what I love about our guest is even though she asked that question, she's putting her money where her mouth is literally, and encouraging all of [00:01:00] us to look at our own lives and challenge us to do the same, to really put our money where our values are.
Dr. Barb: Because together we could make a lot of ripples that become big, big waves and really shift so many things in the world from economy to health to wealth to politics
Maggie: To the planet
Dr. Barb: the planet. And this conversation was just [00:01:30] so uplifting and so visionary, but not in a way that she's dreamy, but the way that she's doing it.
Maggie: Yeah. I mean, I think we've had some of these conversations before around, you know, investing with your values and things of that nature. And it used to be not the same returns, you know? So it kind of made sense like, "Oh, well, you know, we still gotta retire." But now it's the same/better returns and we can be helping the world and helping our community.
Maggie: And there's so many resources [00:02:00] out there with, with Purse Strings, with our guests, with just the internet about how to get your hands on this and how to put your money where your mouth is. And it's just, there's no reason not to be anymore, you know? It's just, it can have such a great impact. And we know every little bit, all of us together, it really adds up
Dr. Barb: Yeah, and it's important, right? Because if we just do the same old, same old, we're not moving forward or advancing women.
Maggie: we feel it's important 'cause we're about advancing women,
Dr. Barb: [00:02:30] Well and I think many women are. I mean, when, when we see all the companies that she's brought together, all the networks of women-owned, women-led, women-invested, it's an amazing start to something that could really, will I hope in my heart of hearts, bloom, and we're a part of it. Purse Strings is a part of it.
Dr. Barb: You know, our role in educating women and providing them fantastic financial professionals plays a big role. Um, a lot of [00:03:00] what we need to do is keep getting education out there on why it's important, how to be conscientious about your money, how when you spend or invest, you're voting with your dollars, and what the impact can be as we stand back and really be conscious about our money and where it's going, because we know women will own the purse strings of America, and think of the power they're gonna have with all their money.
Maggie: Oh, the world's not ready yet. It's gonna be so good. Let's dive into this episode 'cause I'm excited to share [00:03:30] it I think I gotta go change a couple investments. Let's get started.
Gloria Steinem once said, we will never solve the feminization of power until we solve the masculinity of wealth. Barbara Provost and Maggie Nielsen are the [00:04:00] team at purse strings that will help you navigate the ins and outs of financial independence so that you can be financially fearless. This is women in money, the shit we don't talk about.
Maggie: Today, we have Janine Firpo on the podcast, which we are so excited about. We have been actively engaged in her Shiconomy event, and it's just been a great 14 weeks. And so we're so excited to have her on the podcast [00:04:30] today. So before we dive into all of our questions, can you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Janine: Sure. So first of all, thank you so much for having me. It's been great partnering with you guys, and I really loved our sessions together, so thank you so much. So as you said, my name is Janine Firpo, and I'm currently the co-founder of a nonprofit called Invest for Better. We're actually heading into our fifth year of being in operation this September.
Janine: And what we do is we're really interested in [00:05:00] helping women step into their economic power. And when we think about that, we're thinking about not just helping women invest and put their money to work for themselves, but really thinking about what our money is doing in the world and the impact it's having in the world.
Janine: And so we're also helping women really think about and realize the power and the potential we have in shifting the economy through the way we invest. And the way that I came to this myself, because I do this with my own money, that's what kind of got me to wanna [00:05:30] co-found Invest for Better in the first place.
Janine: I had a 35-plus-year career that I ostensibly retired from eight years ago. But what I realized, I didn't really retire. I still had too much energy, and so after my retirement, I ended up writing a book and co-founding Invest for Better. But my true paid career was first in the technology industry in the Silicon Valley starting in 1981.
Janine: And then I made a huge shift in my career in the mid-'90s to look at the role [00:06:00] that technology and business thinking could play in solving international poverty, and I did that for 20-plus years. So I made these big changes in my career just at the time that the internet was coming online. I walked away from that industry because I wanted to do work that I thought mattered in the world and really created change and served people.
Janine: And I realized over 20 years ago, after I had stepped into that second career, that my [00:06:30] money was actually invested in ways that were undermining me. It was invested in things that were creating the problems I was trying to solve. And so I made a personal commitment then to figure out how I was gonna invest all of my money, starting with my cash right through to my real estate, in alignment with my values.
Janine: And I was not rich. I mean, it's like that industry was really created for people originally who had a lot of wealth, and that was not me. But I had a lot of values, and I [00:07:00] wanted to see those replicated in my investments, and it was really hard. So when I retired eight years ago, my financial advisors hadn't gotten me where I wanted to be, and I took my money back from them and started figuring this out myself and realized we'd gotten to a point where anyone even somebody who's non-accredited, even somebody who only has a bank account can think about what their money is doing and can make shifts to put it to work in a more meaningful way.
Janine: And I [00:07:30] realized women really wanted to do this, like 85% of us, story research shows, and most young people really wanna do this, and no one was helping them. And so I decided I'm gonna do that. And so this has turned into my post-retirement passion, if you will.
Maggie: And this is why you're our guest today, for all those reasons.
Dr. Barb: Love it. There's a lot of discipline in what you're saying. There's a lot of discipline to first of all [00:08:00] learn, and second of all make changes, right? So we've got 1,000 things going on in our lives. You know, your money can just be in its black hole wherever it is, doing whatever it's doing, right, when you're investing it.
Dr. Barb: But to really pull back and really say, "I need to live by my convictions and make sure that every point and turn I am doing that." And, you know, personally, I will admit that I've closed my Amazon account, my Audible account. [00:08:30] I don't shop at Target. Like, there are places that I loved and used on a daily basis, but they do not align with my values, and I've just cut it.
Dr. Barb: And, like, people are like, "You did that with Amazon? How did you do that?" And I'm like it really was easy."
Janine: you know what? I-- So I do the same thing. So I haven't completely cut Amazon out, but I have rules around when I use it and when I don't, and I only use it when I can't find what I'm looking for somewhere else. I [00:09:00] have reduced my footprint there dramatically. But one thing I wanna say, because I don't want women to feel like they have to be perfect.
Janine: I mean, one of the things that I think we overdo as women is we feel like we have to be experts in everything before we do a thing. We feel like we have to cross every T and dot every I. We have to be so perfect. And so I really let myself off the hook sometimes because I can't do [00:09:30] everything. And so while I am trying to invest my money in alignment with my values, and I've been working at it a long time, I'm not at 100% alignment yet.
Janine: I've been at this for 20 years, and I may never get to 100% alignment because I've been an investor for 40 years, which means that I have a lot of capital gains invested, and some stuff is pretty bad. One of the things that I'm invested in is a very popular stock. It's called the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund, VTSAX.
Janine: A lot [00:10:00] of people love it. It sucks for the world, and I got a lot of capital gains in that thing. So I'm selling it off a little bit at a time, but I can't afford to sell it all off all at once
Dr. Barb: Right, right. You can't cut off your nose to spite your face, for sure.
Janine: And then if I'm not perfect with Amazon, it's like, okay I'm better, but I'm not perfect, and I'm not gonna make myself wrong for not being perfect,
Dr. Barb: Absolutely. [00:10:30] Yeah. This isn't about blame. It's about being financially conscious. Like, when you have a choice, just making the best choice at the time, right? It might be Amazon 'cause it's the only place you can get whatever it is you absolutely need. But if you have choices, being thoughtful about where you're putting your money because as we say, you vote with your money, right?
Dr. Barb: Where you put your money, you're putting a vote. And even with, like you say, Janine, I'm not perfect, but all of the changes that you have made moving forward is quite a rippling effect, [00:11:00] right, in the world. And if we all do a little something every day, we can make big waves
Janine: Huge. And the thing is, I think the, part of the challenge is a lot of women do wanna do this, but they don't even know how. They don't even know what. They don't even know where to begin, and that's part of what we're really trying to educate women about is how to actually do this and how to make it not a heavy lift, right? We all have heavy enough lifts a lot of [00:11:30] times, right?
Maggie: Were you just kind of done with your tech industry? Did you know you wanted to go to value-based investing? Like, what shifted that decision for you?
Janine: So I wasn't really done with my tech industry. I had a blast doing that work. I mean, I started-- my first job was as a programmer.
Maggie: Were you the only woman?
Janine: The answer to that is no. So first of all, you gotta realize I started in 1981.
Janine: There were not personal computers. They didn't exist, really, [00:12:00] and we were working on mainframe computers. And really, the truly the first job I ever had programming was in New Orleans. So I had moved to New Orleans because of a guy, and I was living there. Loved New Orleans. But at that time, I was coding at a life insurance company, and there was no such thing as a computer career.
Janine: You didn't go to school and get a computer degree. That didn't really exist. But computers were coming in, and these big corporations needed [00:12:30] programmers. So what they did was they gave everyone who was interested in their company a test, and whoever passed that test could be trained as a coder. And guess who passed the test a lot?
Janine: Women.
Janine: So the first coding job I had in New Orleans, almost the entire department was women, and
Maggie: We're so smart
Janine: was run by a woman,
Dr. Barb: Wow
Janine: which is kind of incredible, right? And part of the reason I [00:13:00] left that job was because after three years, I realized that woman wasn't going anywhere, who was my boss. My ability to grow in that job was nonexistent.
Janine: I had one of the best jobs in the entire state of Louisiana. It's like, "I gotta get outta here." So I went back to California, which is where I had been raised, and started coding there, and that's the last time I was ever among women. From that point forward, I was always one of the few women [00:13:30] in the room.
Janine: Completely different, right? But thinking back on that, I don't think that's a history that most people know about, and it's actually one that I forgot about too until I was started talking to people recently. And then in the, I, in the '80s, I worked at Apple Computer, which was, like, an amazing place to be in the '80s, so I had an amazing career in tech.
Janine: What happened was I also was a huge traveler. I just love to travel, and I love to travel for long periods of time. And [00:14:00] so I left this job in February of 1995. I was in something called the multimedia industry, and I went to Africa, solo backpacked through sub-Saharan Africa for four and a half months.
Dr. Barb: Oh my gosh
Janine: And while I was there, I just saw this incredible poverty.
Janine: And in fact, there was one little girl I met in Ethiopia, in fact. She was just gorgeous. I still have a picture of her. She was gorgeous, gorgeous inside and out. She was maybe six. [00:14:30] Beautiful, dressed completely in rags, always smiling. And I looked at her and I thought, "She has no future. She's gonna grow up to what? Poverty. She's gonna probably be pregnant by the time she's a young teen. She's gonna be burdened with children. She's gonna live a very hard life." And it so felt so unfair to [00:15:00] me that she was gonna be relegated to that future. And then I just saw that, I saw these kids with extended bellies and just smiling and happy and running after you and wanting to hold their hand, and you just knew these kids were malnourished.
Janine: It was just sad beyond sad, and people living in, like, just terrible conditions. And I decided I wanna do something about this. And so when I came home, the internet had emerged literally while I was gone, [00:15:30] and everyone I knew was jumping onto that bandwagon, and I was like, "Mm, not me." So I consulted in that space for a year until I figured out how to build a career around poverty and technology, and then that's what I did for the next 20-some years.
Maggie: Isn't it? I feel like we've had this conversation before on the podcast, but it's an interesting view of wealth, right? It wasn't a lot of money, but there's so much joy still in that community. There's so much spirit. There's so much... Like, it's just a different [00:16:00] type of wealth, you know? But when you don't have the money, it looks so different
Janine: Yes, and people really struggle and they really suffer. It's really hard, too. So there is a joy And there is a sense of community and there are elements of wealth that I think we have really lost in our society for absolute sure, and it's a really hard life, and people die really young.
Maggie: And so then tell us about now the work that you're doing with Women With Capital and Invest For Better, and how this kinda then [00:16:30] cumulated into your Sheconomy movement.
Janine: Okay. So as I said earlier, I just started getting really interested in women and our money. And this was even before I started learning about the wealth-- the huge wealth transfer that's going on. But I just realized that women really think differently about our money. I mean, - when I started thinking about writing a book back in 2018, I was talking to a bunch of people and telling them about it, and the reaction that I got from women was, " Oh [00:17:00] my God, I'm gonna give you my name.
Janine: I'm gonna give you my email address, and when your book is ready, tell me about it. I love this. It's such a great idea. I really wanna learn more about how to invest, and I don't know where to find out how to do that." Because when I wrote my book, literally, like, the only people who had written investment books for women at that time were, like, Jean Chatzky and Suze Orman. Not to diminish them in any way, but it was just two, right? There was not a lot out there. And then when I [00:17:30] would talk to men and I was telling them what I was telling the women, which was, "I'm gonna write this book about investing with your values," they would start to argue with me. They would tell me why that was a bad idea.
Janine: They would tell me why that investing was a joke. They would tell me why I shouldn't do it. They just had all kinds of opinions for me about this that I didn't really need. And I realized, " Okay, I'm not gonna do this for men. I'm gonna do this for women because they kinda get it and I don't wanna [00:18:00] fight.
Janine: I'm too old for this, and I just wanna help the women and the people who really see this the way that I see it." And so that's kind of how that whole thing came about. And from the very beginning of working on the book I really realized that women learn well when we're in groups. We like to learn from each other.
Janine: We like to be in groups. And I realized there was a value in writing the book in a way where it could be used as a book club or it could be used... In fact, the last chapter of the [00:18:30] book is about how to start your own sort of club. And while I was writing the book, I met this woman named Ellen Remmer, who is my co-founder, and she had also come to the same conclusion as I, and had also shifted her assets into things that she cared about and had also seen the power of women in groups.
Janine: And so she had started these circles and was putting women together in eight groups of eight to 20 with a facilitated series of conversations about investing with your values. [00:19:00] And so we got to know each other. We're like, "Wow, we're both trying to do the same thing. Why would we compete with each other?
Janine: Let's just join forces." And so that's what we did, and we co-founded Invest for Better together. We took her work and my work, combined them, and created Invest for Better. And then how that led to Our She Economy, which you also asked about. So we're a relatively small nonprofit, but we know hundreds of other women-led [00:19:30] organizations across the financial services space, from women-led banks to fixed income products to angel groups, the kinds of things that you guys are doing, educators, people who have written books now, coaches, financial advisors, venture capitalists who are investing in women, you name it, right?
Janine: And we realized that we were all struggling to get heard above the noise. And so we started thinking, "Well, what if [00:20:00] we came up with a marketing campaign that was a big enough umbrella that we could all fit under the same thing, and we all shared it together? Could we get more reach and visibility?"
Janine: And so that's what we did. So Our She Economy is really a collective effort. There are 120 organizations that are listed as resources on the website, oursheeconomy.org, and those women have been sharing the campaign. Our [00:20:30] combined reach over this period is almost 12 million people.
Dr. Barb: Woo-hoo, that's awesome.
Janine: Which is cool,
Dr. Barb: Wow, look at that
Janine: And the concept that we came up with that we thought was big enough for all of us was asking the question: What would the world look like if women had been equal partners in the economy for the last 100 years? And we had a women-led data analysis company [00:21:00] take that idea and work with us, and we came up with a series of headlines that describe that future world, that possible world and backed with data that ex- shows you how if things had been a little different, we could've gotten there.
Janine: So it's headlines like, " Half of the Fortune 500 companies were founded by women. Cervical cancer has been eradicated. Men live as long as women do. Our kids never had to have live shooter drills," and so on, [00:21:30] right? And that does not have to be a wouldn't it be nice. It could actually, all of those things and the other 14 headlines we have, could all be the future if we start moving our money in ways that truly create the world that many, many women wanna live in for themselves, their children, and their grandchildren.
Maggie: I just get so excited about this. First of all, everyone coming together is such a feminine thing. I mean, first you two coming [00:22:00] together to collaborate. It wasn't like, "I'll fight you to the death and one of us wins," you know? And then all of us together, these 120 or 45 companies you mentioned, you know, all doing that as well.
Maggie: But it is these things that it's like we know we can get it done. We have all the knowledge here. We just need to put some funding behind it. And especially when it comes to women's health, we don't know anything about it. You know, we don't study it. And so just knowing that some of these things, if we just put a little bit of money there, we could, you know, cure a cancer.
Maggie: Boom, done. You know what I mean? It's [00:22:30] crazy
Janine: It is crazy. It is crazy. But it's true
Dr. Barb: Yeah. So with the Sheconomy, after these 14 weeks, what do you see the future? 'Cause you have an amazing, powerful vision
Janine: Oh, I don't have an answer for you on that one yet. But I will, and it is actually something that we're going to be-- So we have a steering committee, and we're gonna be meeting with our steering committee in June. So the Our She Economy will end on June 2nd with this amazing event that I'm [00:23:00] really excited about.
Janine: You guys could come on a plane and come and join us, but it's gonna be in person in San Francisco. So any of your listeners who live there or know somebody who's there, tell them about it. It's actually gonna take place at a place called La Cucina, which is really cool because La Cucina is a incubator for women food entrepreneurs to help them get started.
Janine: So it's, like, got little kitchens in it and all of this stuff. But what we're doing is we're gonna [00:23:30] have 12 female-led financial product companies. So we're talking about banks, fixed income products, stock market products. We're gonna have an angel group there. We're gonna have a real estate deal there that you can get into for $1,000.
Janine: Just really interesting things that women can invest in right now. They don't even need to be an accredited investor. They can invest in this stuff now, and it really advances a lot of the things that we're talking about in the She Economy. virtually, except for [00:24:00] one, all of the players who will be there have been part of Our She Economy.
Janine: So you'll be able to come, meet with, talk one-on-one with the women behind these companies, which is really cool. Learn more about what they do, what it would take to be, what the returns are, what the deal is. But again, this is not like private stuff. This is almost exclusively publicly available product.
Janine: And we may have a couple of special guests. I won't tell you who. We haven't confirmed them yet, but it would [00:24:30] be exciting if we get them. And yeah, so we're gonna have this great event. There'll be food that from these entrepreneurs. There'll be beverages. We're gonna have a raffle. We're gonna celebrate the conclusion of Our She Economy on June 2nd in San Francisco.
Janine: I'm excited.
Dr. Barb: Well, maybe that's something you need to take on the road then
Janine: You know what? That's such an interesting thing. I just got off a call with one of the people that I work with, and she said exactly the same thing.
Maggie: We love a [00:25:00] roadshow
Dr. Barb: yeah, Chicago, New York,
Dr. Barb: Dallas, Miami
Janine: It's something to definitely think about. So we'll be, as I was saying, we're gonna have some-- We're gonna be really working on this over the summer months and really thinking about, you know, now that we're five years in, the world has changed since I started thinking about all of this 2018. And I also don't mean that what you just reacted to.
Janine: I mean that when I'm thinking about that and when I said that, what I mean [00:25:30] is there are so many more women-led organizations around these issues and groups that are coming online and women that are stepping up to help and empower other women around their money. I talked to these three young women.
Janine: They started an organization called Girl Math, And what they're doing is they're helping women i invest in private deals. And they basically said to me, you know, "We got out of college, and we started seeing the men who got out of college [00:26:00] at the same time as us, and things were different for them than they were for us.
Janine: And one of the things that were different was they were talking about all these deals that they were investing in, and we wanted to do that, too."
Janine: So they had to create an organization that they're now going strong in helping each other do that, right? So all of these things are starting to emerge, and so it makes for a really interesting question about, well, what really is needed next and where, as an organization, can Invest For Better really help and [00:26:30] what is our core strength?
Janine: So I think we're gonna be thinking about all of those things.
Maggie: Yeah that's awesome and I love the girl math. I mean, we've gotta take back that and own it and not have it be this negative thing. But for those who can't make it to San Francisco or, you know, listen to this podcast later and who feels kind of disconnected or intimidated by investing, where do you recommend they begin?
Janine: So they can actually go to oursheeconomy.org, it will continue to stay up, and go into the challenge [00:27:00] section. Because what we did with Our She Economy is every week for 14 weeks, we had a different theme, and it started with things as simple as just know your money story and know what your goals are around your money.
Janine: And then it advanced to things like what we did with you. Who are the people that you have around you as your financial team? And it's kind of ending with, and then what are some things that you can actually invest in to make a difference, right? So you could actually go to that website.
Janine: [00:27:30] Every theme, there were three very, very simple actions that you could take. So that's one way to get started is to just go do some of those things that are on there. And if you do them, post about them, or not, but you could. So that's one way to get started. Another way to get started, if you just wanna start really simply, is think about where you bank and go find a local bank for your savings account or a bank that is run by women, [00:28:00] and there are some websites to help you find those.
Janine: So that's another thing. A third thing, if you really wanna sink your teeth in and, like, really bite this one hard, you could get a copy of my book, "Activate Your Money." You could start your own book club with your friends and just go through it chapter by chapter. Every chapter in "Activate Your Money" ends in a take action section. And I have a companion website called activateyourmoney.net where you can go to that chapter and [00:28:30] download tools, spreadsheets, all the things you need to actually do the actions that are recommended.
Maggie: I see Barb writing down the book right now. Like, "I need to go get that later." I see her already over there
Janine: And then the other thing that you could do, I'm giving lots of options depending where you are in your journey, twice a year we offer these facilitated courses that I mentioned. And so we have leaders who will take you through a seven-part curriculum. You meet online every other week for three and a half [00:29:00] months.
Janine: It'll start again in September. And you could join one of those circles too. It costs $125 to join, so we keep the price really, really low so that nobody feels like it's a barrier. But we learned over time that if We started out making it free, and if you make it free, people sign up and then don't show up.
Janine: so those are four easy ways to get started. Oursheconomy.org simple steps there you could walk through. Change your bank, start a book club [00:29:30] with Activate Your Money, or join Invest for Better Circle. And you can join Invest for Better and become a member and get our newsletter and stay informed for no cost at all.
Janine: So you could just go to investforbetter.org and sign up there
Maggie: I love it. Yeah, there's so many resources just to make it happen. And so for, I wanna kind of loop back around to that topic we kind of started about, of really changing your spending and your investments to aligning with your values. And so I know you said you've changed some of your habits and things like that.
Maggie: So can [00:30:00] you share some of the things that you've changed in your life to start being more value aligned and things that people can take? Again, without overthinking it, without saying, you know, it's must do this and not do that, you know, but just, it's like, the
Maggie: 80/20 rule, right? We
Maggie: try to do
Maggie: most of it
Janine: the very first thing I did was change my banks. So I used to be my banks used to be the big one at some of the Big Four. My money is now, some of it is in a-- I live in Oakland, California. [00:30:30] Some of my money is in Beneficial State Bank, which is a triple bottom line bank that is providing loans to underserved populations in my own community.
Janine: I also have a CD, a six-month CD in a bank called Climate First Bank, which is based out of Florida. And what they do is they give loans to people and companies who are trying to buy electric vehicles, solar panels, or other climate-forward technologies. And they're paying right [00:31:00] now, like 4.25% on a six-month CD, 'cause I'm not about giving up financial return, so just making that really clear.
Janine: So I did that. So banking is easy. There are many, many, many choices there. In the stock market, I have shifted-- I'm shifting money out of VTSAX and putting it into other funds that are more values aligned. And in the stock market, I have and talk about having a sort of a two-pronged strategy, a horizontal and a vertical strategy.[00:31:30]
Janine: So the horizontal strategy is still buy index funds that kind of hold the market low, you know. So I'm doing that, but there are many that are far superior to VTSAX and outperforming, by the way. So they're better than that fund, and they're doing better financially than that fund. The other thing that I learned when I wrote my book that I didn't realize is there are hun- I think there are probably thousands, hundreds if not thousands of ETFs, which are another fund [00:32:00] category, right?
Janine: Electronic traded funds. And they are specialized, so where something broad is holding a good part of the market, you can go and pick an ETF that's focused on clean water
Janine: or solar power or women, companies that are only run by women in the stock market, or social justice, if that's your thing. There is a fund for vegans.
Janine: If you're [00:32:30] a vegan, there's a
Janine: vegan fund. I mean, there's affordable housing ETFs. There's like, whatever your passion is, my guess is you could find an ETF. And so you can take a small portion of your money and invest it in one of those things. It's likely to be more volatile than a broad market index fund, but it may outperform the market.
Janine: It's very possible. And I think they're kind of fun to watch and see and to know, [00:33:00] "You know what? I got a little bit of..." And particularly when they're led by women. So, so one of the things that's really important also to realize in this whole space is that the majority of financial advisors are men, although that's changing.
Janine: But still, I think you guys probably know this better than me, is probably what, what is the percentage of female financial advisors?
Dr. Barb: 17 or 18, not more than 20.
Janine: So that needs to grow. But the amount of fund of asset managers, people who [00:33:30] are running the funds that we invest in in the stock market, the percentage of those that are women is, like, 1%.
Janine: So it's really helpful if we invest in funds that are run by women. That's also really important. So looking at those and making some of those vertical choices. And all the ones that I just mentioned, or most of them, like the vegan one the one that invests in women only, WCEO social justice something that is [00:34:00] fossil-free.
Janine: So social justice is JSTC. There's one that is for fossil-free called Sphere, SPFFX, all run by women.
Janine: So investing in those, invest in a thing that you value and also uplifts female fund managers, so. But again, like, smaller bits of your money and do your homework and know what you're investing in and what the return profile is and all of that.
Janine: But I think there's a real opportunity to think really [00:34:30] creatively in the stock market.
Dr. Barb: Love it
Maggie: we've had a podcast before about a woman in our network who does, like, ESG investing and sits down and ask, you know, 'cause I know a lot of people don't wanna manage this themselves, you know? Which I get. If you do, that's a great option. If you don't, like, find that right resource who will still invest in those values, 'cause that's out there for the same price, for same or better returns, you know?
Maggie: It's not like you're giving up, " Oh, I'm helping the earth, but I'm making half the money." Like, no, that's not what we're about [00:35:00] either, you know? And so there are professionals who can help you and ask, like, "Great, what are your values? What do you not want to invest in? What do you want to invest in? What's most important to you?"
Maggie: And so there are those professionals out there supporting that as well, and it's amazing the option, I mean, the options out there are unlimited
Janine: Exactly. In fact, and you're right, and there are financial advisors who will help you do this, and you can find them, and I'm glad you have some in your network. That's amazing. But the thing that I'm also reading, realizing and what I'm [00:35:30] reading a lot these days about this kind of investing is that this is actually smarter investing than traditional investing because you're actually asking harder questions of companies.
Janine: You're asking harder questions of funds. You wanna know how these companies are thinking about the risks that we're facing and the things that are changing, and these things are not all factored into the market. We think the market factors in everything, but they're [00:36:00] not factored in or they get factored in late.
Janine: And so if you're actually paying attention and asking harder questions about how companies are showing up in terms of the impacts of climate on their businesses, the impacts of the growing wealth disparity on their businesses, the impacts of how they are treating their workers, what kind of product safety they have, how consumers are reacting to them, whether they're ethical or not in terms of their boards and their practices, these things actually [00:36:30] have material impact on the growth potential and return potential of a company.
Janine: And if we're not asking those questions, which we tend not to unless you're bringing more of a values-aligned lens, then you're not seeing the full picture and you're not making as strong of an investment decision
Dr. Barb: Right. Are you seeing women show up differently now with their money and their values? Are you seeing a shift of this happening?
Janine: Well, I [00:37:00] don't know that I can say that at like a national level, but what I can tell you is that the women who go through our program do. So when women learn about this and they start to-- It changes the way they think about money. And when they change, they do move their money. They do make changes. And so we see that very much with the women who are going through our program, absolutely.
Janine: But I can't say to you women with large
Dr. Barb: Not yet, but [00:37:30] soon.
Janine: this is a movement,
Janine: right?
Janine: And what we're seeing is that it's growing. It goes back to what I said earlier about the fact that there's so many more women who are stepping up and leading companies, starting organizations, and doing things to empower themselves and others around our money.
Janine: So many more than five years ago,
Maggie: It's so exciting. I mean, just that time in five years. And I feel like it's a lot of this information, once you start learning [00:38:00] it, you can't, like, unsee it anymore, you know? And then so it's like a, it feels like a must-do once you get too much information. You're like, "Now I gotta be socially conscious about it.
Maggie: I can't go a different way." Like, which is not a bad thing, but, you know, it's like once you learn it, you can't unsee it
Janine: Right. The way you just reacted is exactly what I meant when I said we can't be perfect, right? And so it's like, "Oh God, now I need to be socially conscious of this." So [00:38:30] rather than that, realize, "Oh, I just learned something that's gonna make me smarter with my money and that's gonna help me grow my wealth faster.
Janine: So I'm gonna learn more about this because one, it's really cool. Two, it'll make my money so much more meaningful to me. And three, I'm gonna end up with more wealth at the end of the day."
Janine: That's a reason to
Janine: do this, right?
Maggie: And like if more money is going into the hands of women and we're using it and helping the community and then the [00:39:00] earth is getting better and we're making more money, it's just like boom, boom, boom, stars align.
Janine: Exactly.
Dr. Barb: compounds
Janine: Exactly, exactly, exactly. We just gotta make it really easy because that's the other thing is like women are busy, they're stressed, they're young moms, they're like managing so many things and it's so ease- easy, easy, easy is the goal.
Maggie: Yeah.
Maggie: definitely. Well, this has been such a fun conversation, and I'm [00:39:30] so excited to have you, you know, to meet you and to see all the work that you're doing as it's so, so impactful. So I know you'll be in the history books. But I do have to ask you a question, you know, that we ask all of our guests on the podcast and, you know, for you especially, you know, when your money's fully aligned, what does financial freedom look like to you?
Janine: So I have been financially free since I was very young. Very young. And it's not that I was rich it's that I had enough money in the bank [00:40:00] that I could make choices in my life. So, for example, when I talk about that trip that I took to Africa, I was in my 30s when I did that, but I had enough money in the bank...
Janine: So I used to keep a year of run rate. That's what I personally did was a year because it gave me that kind of flexibility. And so The reason I took that trip, the sort of the impetus for it, [00:40:30] I was working at this company, I was an executive at this company. I was asked to do something that I felt was unethical, and I refused to do it.
Janine: And I decided I'm not gonna stay here anymore, so I quit my job. And I decided this is my opportunity to go travel for a while, and I had the money to do that. I had the money to quit the job. And what's interesting, and one of the things that I won't forget, you know how in your life there are just things that you won't forget?
Janine: When I was going around and saying goodbye to all of the [00:41:00] other executives and the people in the company, one of the other gentlemen who had been one of my peers said to me, "You know, you're so lucky that you can do this." He said, "I'm married. I have a wife who doesn't work. I have three kids. I have to not only make myself happy, but I have to keep my wife happy, and I have to make sure my kids are okay, and I don't have the freedom that you have to just walk [00:41:30] away." And I was like, "Oh my God, I never thought about this before." And what became clear to me in that moment was one, he was right, and I had built that freedom for myself, and I never really understood the burden that we have been putting on men for generations. And so when I think about what's happening with women and how women are stepping more into [00:42:00] their power and more into their money and more into their careers, it doesn't just free us, it frees men.
Janine: It lets men not have to show up in a way that keeps them from expressing themselves as fully and completely as they want to.
Maggie: And now, I think when this podcast released, you'll be on six months in Italy, and that's
Maggie: some great freedom right there
Janine: Yeah, [00:42:30] I'm really, really excited about that. So I became an Italian citizen about 10 or 15 years ago, and I've been wanting to go and spend some time there just for fun and to have a different set of experiences. But my husband he's a lot younger than me, actually. He's 10 years younger than me, and he has not gotten to the retirement place yet, and he wasn't available to go with me for any length.
Janine: But he's taking a [00:43:00] sabbatical, and so we'll be able to go together.
Maggie: love that. I
Dr. Barb: Sounds lovely, really
Janine: Yeah. I think it'll be an adventure for sure. We'll see. We're taking our little dog with us. It'll be an adventure
Maggie: Thank you for taking the time today to come on this podcast and share everything that you're doing and just being great impact to, you know, the women and money and helping us all make a better impact in this world.
Janine: Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for all you two are doing too, because we're all in this together, and it's all of [00:43:30] our efforts together that are gonna create the change we wanna see.
Maggie: Definitely. Well, we're gonna make sure we have all your links, your book, all the good stuff in the show notes so people can stay connected. And until next time, be financially fearless.
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