A Queer Understanding

Dr. Angelica & Cassy: A Year of Queer Marriage, Pt. 2

• Dr. Angelica & Cassy Thompson • Season 5 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 42:55

Marriage is not without its challenges, and this heart-to-heart with Rahim Thayer peels back the layers of emotions that often underpin our actions and reactions within our most intimate relationships. We look into how our childhood experiences with family can cast long shadows over our adult lives, especially in how we form and enforce boundaries with our partners. Rahim's insights guide us through understanding the complexities of these emotional legacies, offering a path to reconcile our past with our present.


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Speaker 1

And we're back. Thanks for joining us listeners for the second half of our conversation with Rahim Thayer. Let's get into it.

Speaker 2

Thanks for having me back, folks. It's interesting. We took a break last week because of technical difficulties, but I think in a way, the break can be useful for us to reflect on. In a way, the break can be useful for us to reflect on, and so I'm curious to know if you've been thinking more about anything that came up last week. So we talked about how great marriage has been, how affirming it's been or it was to have family show up for you folks.

Speaker 2

You talked about the joy of going to Jamaica and having a family visit, see your partner know them, and then we talked about differences in culture or like things that maybe we didn't expect. And there was a conversation about boundaries and social media. So, like technology, boundaries in the relationship. But it wasn't just I prefer this and that my partner happens to do that. It was. My marriage is being disrespected if somebody messages my wife and there was strong language, like Cassie said, I won't tolerate that and I couldn't. I want to pick up there, but I would love to hear your thoughts, reflections and perhaps if there was any conversation that happened between the two of you.

Speaker 3

It's been an ongoing conversation. It's definitely been an ongoing conversation because we have different self-opinion on what's appropriate and what's not, so for me it's more so, regardless if it's giving you an alert that a message is coming in or not. When you're in a marriage, there's just certain things that people shouldn't do. They should understand that when you get into a marriage. Marriage is sacred, right and I believe that boundaries should be set. I'm traditional in old school in that way. I believe that boundaries should be set. I'm traditional in old school in that way. I believe that boundaries should be set where you don't watch out who it is. If it's not an emergency. You don't take up your phone at midnight, 11 o'clock at night, early in the morning, and text or call someone. It's not an emergency, you can't wait.

Speaker 1

So we've been having conversations about it, but we're not talking about text and call to be clear text call social media messaging, whatever it is.

Speaker 3

It's inappropriate to me. It's not something that I will ever stand for and I think it's. I just think it's. It's not something that you do when someone is in a marriage. It can create conflict. I didn't create conflict between us before.

Speaker 2

Okay, and I'm going to say that a bit of conflict is needed and necessary, but we need to think about how we're going to approach this conflict.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

Cassie, I'm going to ask for you to reflect for a moment. Share with us where you think you or where did you learn about what a relationship is and what a marriage is, because you've said some things that are telling me. You've got a specific idea of marriage and I'm curious about where it came from. Right, so you said things like marriage is sacred. Other people should respect it. There are some things you do and don't do. You're talking about like rules. They might be spoken or unspoken, but you're talking about rules. So reflect back in your own family. Who articulated the rules in the house and what were they?

Speaker 3

So growing up in my younger days, my parents were married and we had a house phone and that house phone will not ring after nine o'clock. If that house phone ring after nine o'clock, it has to be an emergency because it's family time. Right, it's family time and my parents did not have a perfect marriage. Who?

Speaker 2

set the rule? Was it mom, dad or both people?

Speaker 3

I think it's both people, even if I think it's both people when it comes to the time the phone rings, or one of you, you know, and for me, what I? You know, I just going, just going through life and see people that have been married for a long time. Or you know just what I think just going through life and see people that have been married for a long time, or you know just what I think respect is overall. You know, and I look at those and I'm like you know, when a person decides that they're going to stand before their family or God or whatever you believe in, and say you know what. I am going to make a vow to this person to respect honor. I don't use the word obey because my wife don't like it, but I respect and honor someone.

Speaker 3

I think there's something that has to change that you were doing in your single life right? So for me, one of those things are setting boundaries when it comes out to communication after certain hours and, for example, my family know that don't call me after certain hours, because I'm with my wife. If it's not an emergency, don't call me. It's called on sundays. They know that's the day I spend with my wife. You know, sometimes there's stuff going on so we may have conversation, but those are times when I feel like it, because in a marriage there has to be some form of respect, there has to be some rules and, as you say, some of them may be outspoken, some of them may be unwritten. However, you know, I feel like marriages these days have a lot of meaning, but for me, I think the the old school, traditional way in where people where marriage is sacred, that's what marriage is to me and I'm not telling about. I'm not trying to control, as some people may hear this. I think I'm trying to control or whatever you, but to me it's not control, to me it's more of this person that I'm with and this is the person that we're building a life together.

Speaker 3

And divorces are so common, right, I'm not saying it's because people are not doing things traditionally or whatever you, but if you look at a lot of people that go to work cities, it's, it's probably could have, could have been prevented if people just decide to compromise, like, like, for me, I'm a very outgoing person. I was the type of person that would be at the bar. I get off work. Even previous relationships, I would get off work. Go home, jane, change my clothes. Call anybody that wanted to go to the bar. We're going out.

Speaker 2

I hear you.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we used to have a lot going on and now you know I don't do that no more. Does it sometimes like man? I was sitting there like man, I want to. Just the bar is across the street and I was like man, I just want to go over to the bar. But I know that I'm in a marriage and my single life is in the past. Okay, I'm going to pause you there.

Speaker 2

So one thing I want to mention is I want to highlight the things you're saying here. You're saying there is a distinct difference about how an individual person conducts their life from when they're single to versus when they're married. You're talking about sacredness and rules. You're also talking about containing or protecting family time in a way, as a way to prevent problems or dissolution of a marriage. You didn't see it exactly like that, but that's what I got, and so I'm gonna give Dr Angelica a moment. I'm thinking what are your? I don't want you to react to exactly what you're hearing, but I want you to reflect a bit on where did you get your learning about rules around how a marriage should be, and was there as much of a distinction between your single life versus your married life? This is about you reflecting on your own past and childhood.

Speaker 1

Yeah, my parents are still married. They've been married for 42 years and obviously social media wasn't a thing. I don't ever remember there being issues with calls in the home. That may have been a conversation that they had privately. My mom is more like me, she's more reserved, and my dad is more outgoing, like Cassie, but I don't neither one of them talk on the phone a lot, and my dad did not. One thing I do know is that he was some more like Cassie and that he liked to go out, go to club and stuff like that, and one thing that stands out is that they are.

Speaker 1

But my parents are both born and raised in a small town in Mississippi and they still have some family there, mostly on my mom's side, and my dad was in the Navy and so actually he was gone for months at a time. So you know what things look like when he was there versus when he was gone. It could have been very different. I mean, my mom may have been talking on the phone while he was gone, but then when he's here he's like, oh, my husband's home. So it's a little bit different to recollect the rules and boundaries because of the dynamics of our lifestyle. But one thing I do remember is that when we would go home to Mississippi, my dad would and this is like once a year he would go out and he would stay out late, and every time it would piss my mom off. And I remember saying to her it's like well, it's once a year, you know what's the big deal.

Speaker 2

But what did it mean to her when he did that?

Speaker 1

It probably was a matter of respect, like you shouldn't be out this late because you're married or even just your relationship, you shouldn't be out that late, which I concur with. So I'll say, besides that, and as far as being a time you're out, how often you go out, that's the main thing I remember about boundaries being spoken in that relationship. As far as me and how I conduct my life when I was single versus married again, I was not a person who went out much at all, and I'm not a person who talks on the phone a lot either. So, honestly, my behavior pretty much looks the same.

Speaker 2

So then did you have an idea in your mind about things that would change in your life if you were married? And, more specifically, was there a narrative you got from your family about sacrifice in the context of marriage? So this is the thing I used to do, but because I'm married, this is the thing I no longer can, or I have to give that up. Was that part of you?

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2

Okay, so you've both grown up, although in different places, with the narrative around shifting who you are, how you interact with the world, from singleness to married life, and there is a narrative of sacrifice. I got to give something up to prioritize family. You mentioned that your parents were divorced. Is that right?

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 2

And tell me a bit about the impact of that on you.

Speaker 3

It was very tough when they got a divorce. It led to because my father was a breadwinner in the house and now my mother. They will work. So when, when my parents got a divorce, it was like my father divorced us too. My sister and I went to live with him for about three months and then he brought us back and then it was very minimal support. We did not run a water sometime, we didn't have electricity, so my mother wasn't there as much, because she was very destroyed. She wasn't an independent woman, so she would be gone to her sisters and they will tell her all. Well, you know, let him let the and leave the kids. Yeah, just like you know, germans are very blunt and they'll be like oh well, come on, so she will spend a lot of time with her sisters, right, so the house was out of control. My older brothers, they will play music all night. You just, it was from going from structure to total chaos, you know so it was like we do what.

Speaker 3

I cannot hear you.

Speaker 2

I said that's so disruptive to your life.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and it's scary, my brothers, they would take on the title.

Speaker 3

They are the ruler of the home. They were older than my sister and myself so it was pretty tough and infidelity led to divorce in my parents marriage because my father wasn't faithful. And I have very low tolerance for infidelity as well because I know what it can do. I know it can disrupt people's lives, it can destroy life, because I honestly know that some of the things that I went through and my other siblings, we would not have gone through it if it wasn't for infidelity.

Speaker 2

And so you grew up with this experience of chaos, instability, and even though your family had so many they have quite a few rules. It seems like they were about rules and conduct and somehow those rules didn't apply to your dad, or he had to. He found a workaround, as though they, you know, for some reason he couldn't abide by them, right, and it had detrimental effects on the family. Yes, now, I think that could be interpreted in two different ways. One is if we stick to the rules, everyone stays together and things are happy. The other interpretation is, if we relax on the rules, we can stay together and everybody's happy, right, because we can talk about what's not working, right. So I'm thinking just for you, cassie, when you think about somebody texting your wife at night. I know you're like it's not appropriate. I know what you think. Tell me how it feels for you. Do you get a fear? Does it feel chaotic a bit?

Exploring Family Dynamics and Feelings

Speaker 3

No, it is more so of respecting than a fear of. Oh well, you know, because if I had any feeling that my wife would be unfaithful, we would not be having this conversation right now, because if I feel that way, we're not going to be together. But it's more so offsetting boundaries and respecting the marriage, because I feel like you, texting our social media messenger or whatever, an adult should understand that a person is married and this is I'm going to pause you.

Speaker 2

I'm going to pause you because you're telling me about how you think about the situation and I'm really thinking about. I'm trying to get us to focus on how it feels. So you said it makes you feel disrespected. Yes, and when you feel disrespected, there's other feelings underneath disrespected. So try to tell me more about feelings. So disrespect and anger are probably up there and let's say that were to continue to happen. Tell me about the worry, tell me about the fear, because there's something there. Allow it. What could happen? Go ahead.

Speaker 3

If it continues to happen, there probably would be a little bit of a fear and it probably would make me feel like, okay, she's not willing to do anything about it, so I'm not the person that. So she cares more about putting a stop. She cares more about the person that's doing it than me, because she's not willing to take some action to make it stop okay cassie, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2

That is vulnerable and it's so important because I think it's a bigger part of your dynamic than you might realize. Right, I don't think this is actually about social media. I think this is about fear that somebody else will be prioritized over you, because that's what happened in your family of origin. What do you think of that?

Speaker 3

So it has some weight and I agree with you, but I also do think it's disrespectful too, and you are allowed to continue thinking that.

Speaker 2

But both of you have shown me that your ideas about protecting marriage and the role of marriage and sacrifice that comes with it have come directly from your family experiences. Right, and the main difference in your family history is that one person's parents experienced a separation or divorce and the other set didn't, and so I don't think it's a coincidence that one person is more anxious about the bubble or the rules being disrupted, whereas another person's like I feel like it could be okay. Right, I think there's a. So just putting that on the table for you to think about, because I think when we say there's a fear, there's an underlying need, and the need is what we need to be talking about. Because the need is about if I'm hearing it right is about commitment, it's about reassurance, it's about communicating commitment and love, these kinds of things.

Speaker 2

I'm not saying don't protect your time. I'm not saying don't have the rules, but I think when we emphasize them a lot, it triggers the fear, and under the fear, there's a need about is this going to take us to a bad place? Now I'm going to ask you another question, cassie, and I apologize, didn't? I didn't mean for this to be cassie therapy it's fine.

Speaker 2

It's fine um I want you to think about mom and dad a bit. You both liked rules and at least one of them had difficulty sticking to them. Right, tell me a bit about their relationship. Did they impose a lot of rules on each other? Did they complain about each other? To you, I'm trying to think about how these rules were useful and maybe how they they weren't always working.

Navigating Marital Dynamics and Boundaries

Speaker 3

So a lot of the rules were, I would more say, my father was more so to enforce on the relationship and you know, because it's traditional, he was more so the enforcer in the relationship and my mother was very feisty. She would cuss him out and then they had some very boiling time like physical abuse. They will fight. You don't hear the argument, but then you just see them fighting like physically fighting, and my father was a very jealous person too, like if somebody would say hi to my mother in a way that he doesn't like, it would be a problem how do you make sense of this jealous father who then was the one who had the infidelity?

Speaker 2

How did that? How do you make sense of that?

Speaker 3

It doesn't make sense, it doesn't. And then, even when he was remarried, he still wanted to control my mother. My mother had a relationship and he broke it up.

Speaker 2

Dr Angelica, how do you make sense of this dynamic? When your partner tells you my dad was the controlling one? He's also the one who had the infidelity.

Speaker 1

How expect you to be faithful to me and I expect you to follow these rules, but I'm above them because I'm the man. I'm above all of this. I can do what I want, and what I want is for you to behave and do exactly what I want you to do.

Speaker 2

And this question is for either of you. When you think about families that have, or marriages that have that kind of dynamic and I'm not saying that's yours I really am reflecting on a different kind of dynamic. The person who's controlling so in this case, or in this example that we're thinking about, is Cassie's dad. How did that serve him? Like, why was that important? Was it about how people saw the family from the outside, or was it about no, about no, no. Help me out here. How do you make sense of this? What is the control? Serve him? That's the question I.

Speaker 3

I don't think he was the best husband. I'm being honest, I don't think he was the best husband to my mother, but he wanted I can't. He was an excellent provider and, as I say, when things were good they were great, but when they were, they weren't. And, as I said, I totally disagree with a lot of things that he did, and I especially disagree with infidelity and the appeal was but how did the control serve him?

Speaker 1

Was it an image that he wanted of the family externally? So from what you told me, that definitely is a piece of it.

Speaker 3

my family in the neighborhood that we grew up, when both parents were there were the model family in the neighborhood.

Speaker 2

Okay, okay, it is okay, so this is useful. Thank you for that and, angelica, thank you for intervening with the clarification, because all of that is very useful. Cassie, do you in some ways? So far we've talked about, what it means to you somebody is disrespecting you by sending messages to your wife, but does part of you also worry about what it says about your marriage to the outside world or how it looks?

Speaker 3

Yes, because if somebody is feeling like, okay, you know what, I know she's married, but I can send her a message at any hour of the night, I don't like that.

Speaker 2

I don't. Do you think it says to them that it's okay?

Speaker 1

because you and I aren't that close. No, that's not what I'm't. Do you think it says to them that it's okay because we're not, that you and I aren't that close?

Speaker 3

No, that's not what I'm saying. Well, it's possible that person is feeling like you know what I can do whatever I want because I'm cool with this person and to me that definitely sends a message to me that that's how that person feels, especially if they were told not to do it, that they still feel like they can do it right. So the marriage is shaky when they do that okay.

Speaker 2

So when people contact your partner during these protected hours, you're worrying that you feel disrespected. There there's a kind of fear, but it's also like they might get a sense that this is allowed and then they're going to continue to encroach on our relationship in a way, and it doesn't reflect well on our connection or what we have. Angelica, for you so we're talking about threats to the relationship essentially, and what kinds of things for you feel so we're talking about threats to the relationship essentially, and what kinds of things for you feel like threats?

Speaker 1

In general or specifically in this relationship, specifically in this marriage.

Speaker 2

So what might someone else, what might they say or do that would make you feel like this is kind of they're trying to get in between us or they're trying to wreck our home or they're not respecting the sacredness of our marriage.

Speaker 1

Yeah, people actually called or texted after certain hours. That would feel like an encroachment on our relationship, whether she answered it or not, because it's ringing, we hear it my phone number.

Speaker 1

Whatever it doesn't ring, I see a light up. So I know someone's calling, we hear it. My phone number, whichever it definitely rang, I see it light up, so I know someone's calling or texting, whatever. So if it was something that was active like that, it would feel like that. I was kind of thinking if someone asked her to go out all the time, it would feel and just her would probably feel that way.

Speaker 2

You said all the time. If it happens once or twice, would that feel threatening to the relationship or disrespectful? Once or twice? In what period? A month?

Speaker 1

Twice in a month is a lot. To ask someone who's married to go out with you to do something, okay, but once in a while that's fine. And for her wanting to go out, like if she wanted to go to the bar, and she asked me if I wanted to go, I was like no, I don't feel like. I just took a shower, I just want to lay here, I'm fine with her going. It doesn't feel any kind of way to me.

Speaker 2

Actually, I'm glad you said that. I would love for you to have a brief conversation with Cassie, Tell her about what sacrifices you appreciate and which ones you might appreciate. But you don't necessarily require yes.

Speaker 1

You can do that, yes. So I do appreciate you reigning in your extrovertedness and desire to go do things, and I recognize that you would do a lot more things if you were single or if I was also an extrovert and wanted to do those things with you. So because I tend to be more comfortable on the sofa in the house or even having people over, I don't want to go out all the time. So I do appreciate you doing those things, but it doesn't need to be to the extent of you don't do anything if I don't want to do it.

Speaker 2

Okay Now, cassie, I don't want you to respond directly, but I want you to say how does it feel just to hear that, because I'm guessing it's kind of a new way of communicating than what you were exposed to growing up in the household of rules. So what is it like for you to be like, oh my gosh, my partner's saying I appreciate this, but you don't have to do it exactly like that. What does that feel like for you?

Navigating Marriage Challenges and Individual Growth

Speaker 3

It feels good and it does feel reassuring, you know, to know that the efforts are recognized, because just believe I'm that person that's always alive for the party party. You must miss that. You must miss that a little bit. Yeah, sometimes I do, but what I do, and when I'm driving, especially when I'm going back and forth from work, I play my music and I enjoy some time. And when she travels for work, I'll play some music on the TV and reminisce. But I do miss it sometimes. Otherwise, sometimes I just want to go to a Jamaican party, just go somewhere and have some fun, and we do travel. But while I miss that, I enjoy sitting on the couch with her, spending time with her more than being out in the streets with her, spending time with her more than being out in the streets. It, it, it feels good to sit down and talk, watch tv, you know, hug her, whatever. It feels way better than being out there you know what?

Speaker 2

eating a salad feels way better in my digestive system than eating a pizza, yes, and they literally need to do both things, you know.

Speaker 2

So I'm just putting.

Speaker 2

I think this is an entry point to a conversation for the two of you about the fears that come up when you do separate things, and also about sacrifice, like what you want to give up versus don't want to give up, because I don't know anything about your mom and your dad, but you've told me that they had a lot of rules.

Speaker 2

It didn't save their marriage, you know, and so I think we got to think about rules are fine, but I think you guys are going to have to create some of your own, because the underlying fear is about the solution of a relationship or a potential infidelity or potential not being on the same page, and I think y'all can find ways to stay synchronized. Maybe you'll send each other social media memes while you're out and that'll blow the cover on this whole rule book. I'm going to ask us to shift gears a little bit. What are some things that you both are excited about doing together and doing independently in the next year? Well, usually independently, like people will often talk about career, but it could be anything you want to go first?

Speaker 1

oh, you go first together. My wife is turning 40 in june. I know you don't appreciate that, the actual age number being out there, but yes. So we are excited to celebrate that, most likely in Puerto Vallarta with family and friends partying.

Speaker 1

So excited about that, excited about going to Jamaica again this year. We went last May. While it was nice to have family come, I'm excited to have maybe just the two of us where we're spending more time together and being more involved in family stuff and cultural things that are happening in Jamaica. You know, when you have other people with you, you kind of got to cater to them a little bit what they feel like doing or not feel like doing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, listen, you don't have to explain that to me. Yeah, the idea of a family vacation sounds good to me for about four minutes and then I'm like, yes, get away. Like this is great, I'm glad we took a flight together, I'm glad we took a picture. Bye, bye, I don't want to make you feel overwhelmed. So, I hear what. Oh, is there something you're excited?

Speaker 1

about that's for you. Something exciting has recently happened, work-wise.

Speaker 2

And so so I'm, you know, kind of on it. You're going to see where it takes you, exactly, exactly Okay.

Speaker 1

I will say I've had some issues. I have arthritis in my knees and I've gotten treatment for that and I'm looking forward to that rectifying so that I can be more active and do some of the things that I used to really like doing, like kickboxing and Krav Maga and aerial arts and stuff like that.

Speaker 2

So if it doesn't work out, consider crocheting. If it doesn't work out, consider crocheting. Thanks over to you, cassie so definitely.

Speaker 3

Another came forward to turning 40. Um, you know it's only on paper, but I'm really excited and grateful that I live to see 40, you know, and my mother is turning 70 and I'm taking her on a cruise. We're taking her on a cruise this weekend, my very first cruise. So that's really exciting. And one thing that I'm really excited about is our marriage. It feels really good, you know.

Speaker 3

Some it not not every day are great days, right, but what really excites me a lot is just to go to bed together at night, wake up in, wake her up in the morning and she get upset. It's kind of cute, you know. And I'm just day-to-day stuff. You know, I get really excited, especially on the weekend, when, even some days when I do work from home, you know we's like we're still not in the house together because I'm working, she's working, so like on the weekends when we are able to make breakfast together and stuff like that. So you know, it's just the little things I'm really excited about. And then on a for just me well, we, we both do kickboxing, so that's something that we, we do together. But I'm just really look excited about losing 20 pounds to I'm in three months. That's that's what my goal is to lose 20 pounds over the next three months, so that's something I'm really looking forward to okay, so that's a very that's a very specific goal.

Speaker 2

Are you? Do you see yourself carving out time for a more sustainable fitness journey in your life?

Speaker 3

Or is it just?

Speaker 2

like I lose weight before this vacation.

Speaker 3

No, not necessarily. So when we met, I was the weight that I want to get back to and I started eating a lot of stuff that I shouldn't have, and not just yeah either, and not just yeah, it's not just for looks, it's also for health reasons too. I feel healthier when I am, you know, a little lighter, healthier, and I think it's. I just look forward for the to go back and taking my walks and stuff like that. But I look forward more to doing stuff with my wife, because marriage is great. It's work.

Speaker 3

Some days you got to put in a little bit more, but marriage is great when you have someone that you come into that person, that person come into you and you share everything that you come into that person, that person coming to you and you share everything. And so if you say, oh, you gotta have someone, that's also sat in mind, which it can be true, but I feel like having a best friend that you share stuff with, because some of the stuff that we share, I would never share that with person that that I've been with before and it's's like, oh well, I can share this with you. You know, like some things that I'll be hiding, hiding, like oh, I'm going to hide.

Speaker 3

And she's like where are you hiding? You know like little stuff that make you embarrassed, but it just feels so good. I wouldn't trade my marriage for nothing.

Speaker 2

Nothing, Cassie. I love hearing that. On the one hand, I hear you say I wouldn't trade my marriage for nothing, and then you turn to your partner a little earlier and said don't let me be your Joe or whatever the Roger or whatever the reference was, you consume you, and so I'm going to set the stage for your next year. I'm going to take some liberty here and say I think the next year or two is going to be about getting comfortable with not having a joint project. I think planning for the wedding and even now planning for the birthday is a joint. It's been a nonstop joint project and you already are best friends.

Speaker 2

Neither of you like they're going anywhere. You already are best friends. Neither of you seem like they're going anywhere. So, cultivating or reflecting on what does it mean to show commitment when we don't have a joint project? And how do I do things that I want to do without making the other person feel like I'm kind of like not interested in them, or something like that? Or how do I do pursue things that I'm interested in while also showing up for my partner?

Marriage, Finances, and Reflection

Speaker 2

I think we're going to have to figure out what this balance looks like. Right, because I think that is its own work. Because if we don't identify what each of you wants to work on individually and then cultivate time and space for that, my fear would be that there could be some resentment later. People who are very close can meet all of one another's needs, but then they have to hold a lot of one another's anger, right, you know? Sure, so let's just create some space, and I think you're working on figuring out your own rules for the next year. What are our rules? Parents rules? They helped us think about things. What are our own rules? Yes, sure, as we leave it there. Are there any final thoughts that either of you want to share Maybe how you're feeling about your communication or reflection on what we've talked about.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I just really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. I feel like you raised some questions that really helped both of us think about ourselves, the source of our own desires and the way we operate, and that self-reflection is really, really important. And that self-reflection is really, really important and that self-awareness is really, really important, because sometimes we just operate in a way and we don't think about where did it come from? Is it actually still serving us? So I appreciate that Right.

Speaker 3

Great, I'm so glad For me I would. I would say this, and I say this before marriage is a beautiful thing. Yes, the little things, the little things that cause, for example, I send my wife a voice note, no, a video message and it's just little things that brightens up someone day. And the next thing I'm going to say the person in the relationship, in the marriage that can handle finances better, let them do it. Let that person do it, you know, and it doesn't matter who is making more money, the person that's more financial conscious and the person that's more financial conscious and the person that's more forward thinking in terms of the future. Let them handle the money. And that's why my wife handles the money. I mean, she makes more money than me, but you know she is the one who handles the finances because she makes conscious financial decision more than I do.

Speaker 3

And I think with that it eliminates a lot of issues, because I'm not saying we don't have issues in our marriage, but the bigger issues of financial issues, infidelity, disrespecting the income that we don't have in our this is just a little right. But this conversation that we had with him, it really opened up my eyes a little bit, because sometimes somebody says something is starting and we start thinking hmm, you know, but my wife is my everything and that will never change. Of course, there are days when I say we're not at our best, but one thing it never stops I never stop loving her. I never stop feeling like she loves me. I never stop me from waking up feeling like I'm more in love with her today than I never stop Feel like she loves me. I don't, I didn't never stop me from waking up, feel like I'm more in love with her today than I was yesterday.

Speaker 2

Oh, it warms my heart to hear that. That's beautiful. I love your advice that like let's lean into the skills people have. So if somebody has the skills for financial planning, let them do it. Um, for financial planning, let them do it. Cassie, I'm going to give you some separate homework only because I'm not going to see you again when you can reflect on the connection between your family of origin and the person you've become. Just reflect, because right now you said something that really struck me. You said my wife is the breadwinner. Same thing you said about your dad, and there's things to just reflect on, because I can assure you there's parallel anxieties. I can't name them for you because we'd have to work together for us to extract them but that reflection can be really useful. Other than that, I love how much you love marriage, and so I'm gonna go out and marry. You know I want to do just kidding. I'm thankful for this time. I'm thankful that you brought me in.

Speaker 3

maybe we'll leave it there for today yeah, yes, thank you so much rachie, and if you move to alabama, we're gonna come and see you, or to Alibaba, we're going to come and see you, or you come and see us you can come see me.

Speaker 2

So far from what I'm seeing, it's like there isn't a ton to see here, so maybe I'll just get on a train and come see you okay, that's fine, you're more than welcome.

Speaker 1

Thank you so much, raheem. Thank you bye.