A Queer Understanding

Mark Julien: Crafting Powerful LGBTQ Narratives & Embracing Authenticity

• Dr. Angelica & Cassy Thompson • Season 6 • Episode 1

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What happens when a talented writer and illustrator channels personal struggles into powerful stories? Mark Julien, the acclaimed Canadian author behind the LGBTQ graphic novels "Just in Case and the Closet Monster: Hope" and "Becoming Able," joins us to share his inspiring journey. Mark opens up about the deeply personal motivations that led to his debut book, which serves as a heartfelt conversation with his late father. His tale of coming out to his family is as touching as it is humorous, showcasing the warmth and eventual acceptance he found, particularly through his mother's loving relationship with his husband, Stacy.
Join us for a compelling conversation that celebrates the power of authentic storytelling and its impact on the LGBTQ community.

https://markjulienillustration.com/


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Mark Julian's Graphic Novel Journey

Speaker 1

Mark Julian is a Canadian writer and illustrator of the LGBTQ graphic novel Just in Case and the Closet Monster Hope, named as one of the best LGBTQ graphic novels of that year 2018, by the Advocate magazine. Mark's debut book dealt with the trial and tribulations of living in the closet. He has followed up with Becoming Able in 2024, a graphic novel set in the same fictional universe. A 1999 graduate of the renowned illustration program of the Ontario College of Art and Design, now OCAD University, mark was a long-time contributing artist to Genre Magazine, as well as to Men's Exercise and Exercise for Men Only magazines, and an illustrator of greeting cards for Village Lighthouse and children's books for Curriculum Plus. Mark earned his bachelor's in education from Queen's University in 2008 and is an Ontario certified teacher, oct, having taught visual arts and drama at the secondary school level. Mark married his husband, stacey, in Kingston, ontario, in August 2009. Here's our conversation. Hi, mark, thank you so much for being on the podcast. How are you?

Speaker 2

I'm wonderful. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Speaker 1

Us too.

Speaker 3

Thanks, Mark. Can you just introduce your name with your pronouns?

Speaker 2

Yes, my name is Mark Julian and my pronouns are he and him.

Speaker 3

Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1

Okay, thanks. So I read your. You have to. I'll say the main thing that we're going to talk about are your two graphic novels and, honestly, the things in there are going to inform what we normally do like a lightning round at the end and ask more about you. But because your first book is all about you, that really is going to kind of be null and void. We'll capture that here, so let's start to talk. You have two novels. First is Just In Case and the second one is Becoming Able. So you talk about this in the prologue slash, introduction, but tell us a little bit about the purpose of your first book, just In Case, and the role that your father played in you writing this book.

Speaker 2

Of course, of course. So the first book is actually Just In Case. And the Closet Monster Hope, of course, of course. So the first book is actually Just in Case. In the Closet Monster Hope I like to point that out because there are going to was gay. So my book is my creative way of being able to tell my dad all the things I wish I would have had enough courage to be able to say to him while he was alive.

Speaker 1

But you did come out. So the the battle was hot, so let's put some context for the years. This was what? What year he passed? You said that in the introduction. Was it 2007?

Speaker 2

Yes, he passed in December 2005.

Speaker 1

So that's a five, okay, yeah yeah, and that was following a 10-year battle with Alzheimer's.

Speaker 2

Correct. That's correct. So when he was battling his disease, I was fighting my own battle, coming to terms with my sexuality and whether to share that with my family. It took me a long time to share that information. Thankfully, when I did share that, my family was wonderful and accepting. But it's always bothered me that I was never able to have that conversation with dad. I think because my family was so understanding and so loving that he would most likely have come around. But I don't necessarily know, because we never were able to have that conversation.

Speaker 1

Right. So the way that you speak about it, it sounds like conversation, right? So the way that you speak about it, it sounds like you have. You're not 100% sure. Were you pretty sure that the rest of your family would be accepting, and less so your father, or how did that play out in your brain?

Speaker 2

No, I don't think that I thought my dad would be less accepting.

Speaker 2

I think when you're in the closet you remember conversations that have happened in your family and maybe there were things from every member of my family that made me afraid to tell the truth, to come out, and probably like a lot of your listeners, I tested the waters and came out to my friends before I came out to my family and I think my mom was surprised.

Speaker 2

My mom was the first person that I told I wasn't intended on telling her, but she knew her son and she knew that there was something going on. And it's a funny story because I have a best friend who I've had since high school and her name is Tony, and Tony and I had a little sort of falling out and I had told my mom about that. And when I came home for Christmas she said I think there's something that you really need to tell me. And I was intending on just telling my brother that Christmas and that was the first person that I was going to tell because I thought that he was going to be probably the most understanding. And when I heard what my mom had said I thought well, mom is a pretty intuitive person, I should take advantage of this opportunity and tell her, and when I did tell her, she was completely surprised. I think her jaw hit the ground.

Speaker 3

I think her jaw hit the ground, and so we went through the conversation and she let me know that she would love me whatever sexuality I was, which was wonderful to hear. But then I asked her afterwards Mom, what is it that you thought I was going to tell you?

Speaker 2

And she said well, I actually thought you were going to tell me that you got Tony pregnant and I was like, oh my gosh right, not me, it's not mine, yeah, so yeah it it I. We had a laugh about that which kind of broke the tension a little bit, and I have to say, uh, since she's met my husband Stacy uh, we've been together 22 years. She has been absolutely wonderful with him and I'm very grateful for how understanding my family has been.

Speaker 3

That's really nice because a lot of people don't have the same experience. But it's good when you have good family members, that that's accepting, and it's good that you are somewhat at peace to think your dad would have felt the same way.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. But you know you always wish that you were able to have that conversation and I think there are going to be sequels to the book and I think I'm going to explore that a little bit more with subsequent books and maybe have the opportunity to have that conversation in a creative way, and I look forward to figuring out how that conversation is going to go.

Speaker 1

It was really touching to read how you said that you tried to communicate to your father that in his last days that he didn't have to worry about you because you had someone who loved and cared about you the way that your mom cared about your dad. But it was also sad because you were as you were. As I was reading it, I was imagining the situation and you were describing that he you didn't. You didn't feel like he was really receiving even that information, but it might've made you feel better to just even be able to communicate that to him.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I. I could see no recognition in his eyes at that point and, of course, this is emotional for me to talk about, but it was important for me to say the words. It was important because I think, at some level, and I'm a very spiritual person and I think that that dad knows, and he knows that I'm happy and he knows that I'm someone that I love as much as he loved my mom. So I take comfort in that.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's very nice.

Speaker 1

So I did have. I didn't know how many, how much creative license you took with writing this. So there were a couple of things that I did want to ask about in the novel the priest part and the teacher part, where they were battling with their own sexuality. Was that something that actually came to fruition and you learned about later that there were adults in your life who were gay or lesbian or queer in some sense? Or did you just, as an adult, looking back, make that assumption or just knowing that that is something that other adults struggle with?

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, as I said, I was brought up Roman Catholic, so it was very important for me to have a religious element within the book. I don't attend the church anymore, but I still have faith in God. Maybe my faith in the church has wavered a little bit, but my faith in God has never, and I never met a priest that ever came out to me and told me that he was gay. But I thought that that would be an interesting story to tell and an interesting counterpoint to the Justin story, because the priest deals with his sexuality in a way that is completely different than Justin, and I wanted there to be that juxtaposition. I think maybe it's a good moment at this time to tell your listeners what the book is about.

Speaker 2

So the main character in the book is called Justin. It's called Justin Case in the Closet Monster, as we've already said, and Justin wakes up in the middle of the night to a rustling in his closet. He gets up to investigate what's going on and he realizes that there's a monster in there and he finds out through a conversation with him that the monster's sole purpose is to help him come out of the closet. So throughout the book you also realize that there is a guild of, and that Guild of Monsters purpose, like Justin's Closet Monsters, is to come to every LGBTQ person when they need help and maybe that extra push to come out of the closet.

Speaker 3

Right, that's amazing. It's a very interesting scenario.

Speaker 1

Yeah, where did you come up with that concept? Yeah, where did?

Speaker 2

you come up with that concept. I've been a fan of comic books and fanatics fantasy forever. I think I always liked that story where there was another world that we could gain access to, and I think for myself I could have used the closet monster to come to me when I didn't have the courage to make that journey out of the closet. I could have used a friend to help me on that journey, to tell me that things were going to be all right.

Speaker 2

Justin's closet monster is quite outrageous and inappropriate at times, but I think I still could have used someone's help. I spent a lot of time in my adolescence alone and I think that that's where the inspiration for the Closet Monster came from, because I wanted to give people out there that were like me something to look towards a friend in this book that might appeal to them, and I think that that's where that story came from.

Acceptance and Spiritual Connection

Speaker 3

Right, yeah, it's a very cool, cool way to put it. So, Justin, what persuaded you to come out, when you felt like it was the right time? When you went home and you told your mom what got you to that place of oh, this is the right, I need to come out?

Speaker 2

I think I had met my husband, who was my partner at the time, stacy and I had been compartmentalizing my life. Yeah, there was my life at school, at university, in another town, and I wanted to bring those two worlds together, and I don't know what was the actual reason for doing that, but I was sick of lying and I didn't want to lie to them anymore.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that can be a difficult place to be in Because you're not being your true, authentic self. At that point, when you are around your family, you're trying to be who they probably who you think they wanted you to be, not knowing that they would have been accepting of who you are. Because who you are is not who you're with right. Who you are is who you are. It's just who you love, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And that's a part of me that I wanted to share with them, because my mom had this amazing relationship with my dad and I think I kept coming home without a partner. I never brought a girl home, right. I never brought someone into the house where she felt that I was going to be okay, that I was going to have a relationship, and I wanted to be able to do that. And when I met Stacey, I knew he was the guy that I wanted to introduce to everyone. And a funny story the first time Stacey met my family, he drove me home I think it was Thanksgiving and he dropped me off and he came in to meet everyone because, even though I didn't have the courage yet to to come out to everyone, I wanted them to meet Stacy because he was such an important part of my life.

Speaker 2

And when he left, my mother looked at me and said was he wearing your shirt? And I was like, oh my gosh. And I think my brother's partner took note of that too. And when I finally had the courage to tell my brother and his partner, she said I knew that was your shirt and I knew something was going on. Yeah, so I think some of them actually knew Right. I just I was so scared that I couldn't see that there was an opportunity to tell them Right. Thankfully, thankfully, I did.

Speaker 1

So, Mark, you mentioned just now that you had been with girls, hadn't been with a guy, but knew that you were attracted to men. Is that really actually what your real life situation was?

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. I think there was a time in university when I was in Toronto, that I thought that I just needed to meet the right girl, that it was because I hadn't clicked with anyone, that the fantasies and the desires I had about being with another man were just thoughts. But thankfully I started to realize after after probably hurting quite a few women because I wasn't honest with myself, and at some point I think I realized that I couldn't go on hurting anyone anymore. I needed to be honest with myself, and yeah, and then started to explore that part of my life.

Speaker 1

So one thing I did want to touch back on too that you mentioned the distinction between church and God. Ok, it's an important distinction, because your relationship with God, everyone's relationship with God, is deeply personal. Intertwine the two that that the church is, you know, the embodiment of of all the teachings of Jesus and of God, and so when they have negative experiences in the church then they turn away from religion and their relationship with God altogether. But you were able to make that distinction and and still maintain your, your spirituality or connection with God still maintain your spirituality or connection with God despite your experiences with the church?

Speaker 2

Yes, yes, and I think that's probably because of my mother.

Speaker 2

Like I said, my dad passed away from complications due to Alzheimer's and faith was very, very important for her and she got a lot of support from the church and that was very important for me. But my mom also taught me that I could have a personal relationship with God outside of the church, and praying for her never was saying the Our Father and the Hail Mary Pr. Praying to her was having conversations with God, and I have been having conversations with God since I was a little boy and I think that helped me a lot, especially in those years where I was by myself, right, because I was so closeted. I didn't have a lot of people to talk with, and so I would talk to him and I never, ever once thought that he judged me for who I loved, and I've always had a very clear understanding of that relationship with God, my personal relationship with God, and I still talk to him, right, I go to bed at night and I go through the events of my day with him.

Speaker 2

And we discuss what went right and what went wrong and what I could do to improve upon that, and I would hope that everyone has the type of relationship that I have with what I perceive to be God.

Graphic Novel Evolution and Inspiration

Speaker 3

Right. But also, you know, you can also see on the flip side as well, that people that probably grew up in the church and just totally especially people of the queer community that totally say you know what, I'm done with this. I don't want to do it really, John, I'm done with this. So, God, Jesus, you know some people, because people the church and not just the church alone, but people push people away with that type of hatred. That's something you've seen in in some of those churches. So you know it's a thing of understanding both sides, that and that caught cast judgment and people that don't right Because not everybody had a good experience or even had a family member, that are open, that understand that there's a God but still open to loving people of the queer community.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Right, right yes. I understand that, yeah, I was fortunate enough to be able to separate church and God, yeah, but I understand not feeling welcome at my church. I understand feeling sad that my marriage to my husband, stacy, isn't really recognized Right, and that of course hurts me, right. So I understand that hurt.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's a very mature compartmentalized to do to separate church from God, because you are probably one of the few people that I know that can actually do that, because most people can't. So that's very commendable that you're able to do that.

Speaker 2

And that's again because of my upbringing and because of my wonderful mother, right, right, I give her full credit for that.

Speaker 3

Nice, that's again because of my upbringing and because of my wonderful mother, right, right. I give her full credit for that Nice.

Speaker 1

That's awesome. So, mark, can you talk a little bit about the evolution of the? Well, how the book, the novel, started actually as a comic strip and how that evolved.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, I was working as a freelance illustrator and I was working for different magazines. I worked for Genre Magazine, which was a gay lifestyle magazine. I worked for Exercise for Men Only, and so I was doing a lot of editorial illustrations at the time and I thought I really want to pitch a comic strip to one of those magazines so one of the gay lifestyle magazines that I had been working for. So I designed 12 pages of the book, which would be a year's run, one that would run in the back page of a magazine once a month, and so I wrote those first 12 pages and, because I need an editor, I looked to my husband, stacy, and had him read those 12 pages and he looked to me and he said, no, there's something special here. You can't give this to a magazine, you need to produce this as a book. And, uh, I think Stacy has always believed in me more than I believed in myself, and when he said that, I realized that I needed to then expand the book into a graphic novel.

Speaker 3

That's awesome Nice.

Speaker 1

So I'll tell you, as I was reading it, I laughed out loud several times. Oh my God, I definitely did. And so the Just In Case in the Closet monster. It has much more levity to it than Becoming Able. Can you talk first what is Becoming Able about and what inspired you to write that book? I know you talk about the beginning of the novel, but if you could share with the listeners.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, there are two characters in the original novel, bethany and Abigail, that I felt didn't get enough screen time and so, during COVID Becoming Able was a COVID baby I decided that I was going to write a short novelette about the love story between Abigail and Bethany. During the writing process it dawned on me or I always think I knew that Abigail was trans and I don't think I had the courage to be able to tell that story in the beginning. And I was fortunate enough in my life and because of the first novel, I was asked to be the artist in residence at an LGBT youth camp called Camp Firefly in Peterborough, ontario called Camp Firefly in Peterborough, ontario. So I went there and I was giving, I guess, the keynote speech to the campers and I was so surprised to find so many trans and non-binary campers there. And I realized as I was giving the speech, because at the time I was thinking to myself wow, my life experience is going to really resonate with the campers.

Speaker 2

And then I realized there was nothing in my book about trans people and I had been going around on podcasts and at different events saying that the closet monsters come to every LGBTQ person when they need to come out of the closet and I realized that I was lying and that I was not including trans people.

Representation in LGBTQ Stories

Speaker 2

And after meeting those trans people and having conversations with them those trans campers I realized that I needed to rectify that and I needed to tell a trans story. So I wrote the first draft of the book, was really excited. My husband, stacy, at the time worked for an organization called the 519, which is a gay and lesbian community center in Toronto, and he had a wonderful trans man colleague and a wonderful non-binary colleague that agreed to read my book. I was overjoyed and overwhelmed because the first book was all about me, so I didn't need to get anybody's permission or anybody's help to tell that story. So I was really looking for help and guidance and, my goodness, did those individuals step up. They told me about their personal journeys, about their personal stories, and I subsequently took their notes, went back to the drawing board and spent another three years revising the book in order to create a book that was more authentic to the trans experience.

Speaker 3

Wow, that's awesome. So, Mark, I have a question surrounding that. So, from your point of view, why do you think it's really important that, when we're telling these coming out stories, we include trans people in those stories?

Speaker 2

Well, they're definitely part of that LGBTQ umbrella and I think it's important because Trans people are probably where the gay movement was 10 or 15 years ago and I don't think there are as many people telling their stories. I don't think there is as much representation as there should be and I just felt connected to them. After this experience. I felt connected to these people that were once just colleagues of my husband, Stacey, but now I feel are my friends and it's important for there to be representation for my friends.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's amazing. Yes, it's so true because, you know, even within our LGBTQ plus community, sometimes we see discrimination, and so it's good to make sure that when we're telling the story, tell all of the story.

Speaker 1

I found it really interesting that Well so the book, the second novel, was published in 2024 based on copyright. Is that right?

Speaker 2

That's right. That's right. In April of this year.

Speaker 1

Congratulations, yes, congratulations. So I was curious about when that camp experience took place, about what year was that?

Speaker 2

It was actually in the summer of 2019.

Speaker 1

Okay, all right. So what I found really interesting and I'm curious about your thoughts on the subject you hadn't considered trans and non-binary folks previously. It feels like a lot more of our youth today are open to being open about their sexuality or gender identity or gender expression, so it's not surprising to me that it wasn't, you know, being our age. It wasn't something that you really thought that much about when you were telling your story about including that population. If you haven't been around youth that much, then you're not as aware of how just they're. It's just, it's nothing to them. It's so commonplace to have a friend who's non-binary or to feel like they want to dress one way at some point in their life and then want to be completely different. Do you agree that there is this generational shift in how open and willing people are to talk about their sexuality and their sexual orientation?

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, definitely it was an eye-opener for me to be at that camp. I think that they schooled me and taught me more than I could ever have taught them when I was there. I loved that experience and I loved their openness to be able to share their stories with me, and I just wanted to do that justice. I think one of the reasons that this topic didn't come up in my first book is because I was so self-absorbed, right, that first book was all about me and was all about the experiences that I needed to get out. I say this a lot. I think that first book was therapy for me, right, and I think, fortunately, I've grown and I don't necessarily need that avenue anymore and thankfully, I'm now able to open it up to other people's stories and other people's journeys, right?

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's really cool. So you started out this just to tell your story and then you realize that you have a bigger purpose is to how do I put other people's story in perspective for other people to see it on paper?

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, because I want to create a universe, right, I am not happy with just those two books, right? So there's going to be an opportunity for me to be able to talk about a lot of other different subjects. I think one of the things that we as gay people do we talk a lot about that coming out, experience and what that's like, and I think my next book is actually going to talk about what it's like after that, what challenges you face after you've come out, right, because I lived my whole life as a lie for so many years Lied to my family, lied to my friends, right and we don't talk about that. We talk about the experience and the elation of coming out, but we don't talk about that, and I think that's probably what my next book is going to deal with my struggles with my own mental health.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and also another aspect is someone who came out later in life myself is not just not being honest with yourself and with others, but also feeling like you missed out on some things because you didn't come out until later is when I see like these baby gays at clubs and things and they're so open and there's I'm just like wow, what would that have been like if I had come out in my teens, like my wife, or in my twenties and just gated up my whole life instead of waited until later? So there's something to explore there as well.

Speaker 2

Yeah, for sure. But that journey, right, that journey is so personal to all of us.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

Right, and I at this point in my life. I probably wouldn't have said that 10 years ago, but at this part of my life I'm pretty okay with the way that I lived my life. I think maybe it would have been nicer to come out earlier but wouldn't have had the experience. I maybe wouldn't have the relationship I have with this wonderful man that's in my life, right.

Speaker 3

Right, yeah, your journey leads to something right and, as you say, it probably wouldn't have led you to where you are today. To be, you know, married, happy, you know, having a wonderful life with a partner, which is one of the greatest gifts, right?

Speaker 2

One of the things that I learned about this process is we all have stories to tell, right, and those stories are important and I probably know myself so much better because of the work that I did with these books. I also wrote a series of blogs, because my first book was published because of Kickstarter and I had to find a way to connect with audiences so that my Kickstarter campaign would have been a success. And I wrote a series of blogs about coming out, coming out to every member of my family, about what it was like to be in the closet and date women and hurt women when I wasn't completely out to myself. And I would encourage anybody out there that has a story to write it down, because I don't think, even if you never publish it, even if you never put it anywhere, right, I think I have learned more about myself because of that process, because you don't know yourself until you actually have to put it down into words, into sentences, into something that's going to make sense to somebody else.

Speaker 3

That's absolutely true.

Speaker 1

And is that blog still up somewhere? Folks wanted to read it.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, you can check out my blog at markjulianillustrationcom and there's a section that has all my blogs.

Speaker 3

Nice and Mark. If someone wants to purchase your book, where can they get those books to buy?

Speaker 2

So the best way is to go to markjulianillustrationcom and. I will ship you the book. Okay, In my hometown there's a couple stores that are carrying it locally, but most of my sales come from my website.

Speaker 1

Okay, nice, and thank you so much for sending them to me and for the folks who want like a hard copy of that. Is it hardback? Is it paperback? What can they expect?

Speaker 2

Yeah, so Just in Case in the Closet, monster Hope is a paperback book and I wanted to try something different with Becoming Able. I wanted to be able to ship it anywhere in the world without any hassle. So the second book is just a digital edition. Just go to my website and I can send you the link to that book. And because I still draw everything traditionally, but I color everything on the computer, it was always meant to be on the computer, so I think actually seeing it digitally is better, because it's backlit and it's how I originally intended it to be seen. Nice.

Speaker 3

That's awesome. Can I ask you guys a it to be seen Nice.

Speaker 1

That's awesome. Can I ask you guys a question? Of course, Do you? Have a favorite character from either of the books. So for me, for the first book, it would of course be the Closet Monster.

Speaker 2

I can't remember his name, so Justin's Closet Monster doesn't have a name, right.

Speaker 1

Okay, I was like, did I miss that Okay?

Speaker 2

If you know the name of the closet monster, you have power over them. That's what the priest said yes, yes Okay. So I know the closet monster you're talking about, and so so you loved him because of his sense of humor, or just yes.

Speaker 3

That's why I haven't read it yet, because this is the first time hearing that she has the books, so we would argue over dinner about that. I didn't know she had the book, but I'll definitely let you know what our, um, what my favorite character is.

Speaker 2

I would love to know your thoughts, because the books took me forever and illustrate. The first one took me nine years, the second one took me four, four and a half, and I am hungry to hear what people think of the books. Right, I want to have those conversations. I want people to tell me who their favorite characters were. I wanted my friends to pick out all of the Easter eggs that I had placed in the books that only they would actually get and understand, right, so, yeah, so, please, yeah. Once you've read the books, tell me what you think.

Empowering LGBTQ Graphic Novel Discussion

Speaker 1

We'll definitely do this and for me for that, for becoming able. I'm having a hard time deciding who my favorite character is. I mom was a small piece in it but I really liked how she came to terms with and when she came to term with, abigail slash Abel's identity, because it was when she died. When Abigail died and mom decided, instead of putting her in a dress, to put her in clothes that represented who they really were and you know, we know of stories where that was absolutely not the case and the person, whether they were non-binary or trans, at the end of their life, their parents did not honor that and dress them in clothes that did not represent their identity. So it was a small piece but that was really touching and powerful to me. And then, of course, abigail's former self appearing self appearing. That was a really good piece as well, that to help Abigail slash Abel come to terms with who they are now, even in the afterlife.

Speaker 1

So I absolutely love the novel. I encourage everybody to read it. It seems like it's long because it's like 190 pages, something like that, but a lot of it's illustration and it is very comic book-ish in the illustrations and the thought bubbles and the conversations in the bubbles, so it's actually a very quick read. It was really good. I loved it.

Speaker 2

Oh, thank you. Well, you know what's interesting, the two characters that you talked about weren't in the original draft of the book, and it was through my conversations and through talking to Stacey's wonderful colleagues now my friends that that came about right. They gave me the courage to be able to give Abigail slash Abel a voice, and then I realized it was really important to hear about the mother's journey right and her story right, which was also important to the totality of the book.

Speaker 1

Yes, right, agreed, agreed. Well, thank you so much. It has been great talking about the novels with you and sharing, you know, my thoughts and insights as well.

Speaker 3

All right, mark Julian, thank you for coming on A Queer Understanding. So, listeners, there you have it. Mark Julian is a Canadian writer who focuses on LGBTQ graphic novels to create an experience for members of the community that needs inspiration to come out of the closet or tell their stories. So, mark, I'm really excited about the future and to see what makes you have coming. Hopefully, next time angelica will share, share and I'll keep it. First, you know when they say when it's so good, they want to keep it for themselves. That's what it is, but it was an absolute pleasure having you on a queer understanding and I'll definitely read those books and I'll share my thoughts with you. I want to say thank you again for being on a queer understanding.

Speaker 2

Understanding. Thanks, mark. Can I say one last thing? I have put together a discount code on my website, markjulianillustrationcom, and your listeners can get 10% off of any of the products on my website, and the discount code is a queer understanding.

Speaker 1

That's amazing. Oh my God, I love it. We'll put all this in the notes and also, when we post it on social media, and make sure we put that in the description as well. So thank you so much.