A Queer Understanding

Dr. Amy Herrick: Embracing Identity, Gender Fluidity, & Advocating for Trans Rights

• Dr. Angelica & Cassy Thompson • Season 6 • Episode 6

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:01:16

Dr. Amy Herrick's story is a remarkable testament to the power of vulnerability and self-discovery. Professionally spanning genetics, chemistry, software engineering, and management, Amy's journey is a rich tapestry of personal growth and transformation. Throughout this discussion, we unravel the complexities of identity and gender, examining how they begin at birth and evolve under the influence of both inherent traits and societal norms. Amy shares insights that push against traditional definitions of femininity and masculinity, using historical and cultural examples to highlight the fluidity of these concepts. Her reflections offer a fresh perspective, shedding light on how gender and identity have been understood historically and how these understandings continue to evolve today.

https://www.amethysta.io/
https://genderidentitytoday.com/
https://genderidentitytoday.com/podcast/

https://www.instagram.com/amethystaherrick/
https://www.facebook.com/amethystadings
https://www.tiktok.com/@amethystaherrick


Contact the hosts of A Queer Understanding


Like, subscribe, & follow

Exploring Gender and Identity With Amy

Speaker 1

Amethysta. Amy Herrick has been a geneticist, a chemist, a software engineer and a manager, but her greatest challenge to date is taking on the entrenched fallacy that identity and gender are of concern only to the LGBTQ community. Instead, amy teaches that identity and gender are ongoing processes with which every human must engage throughout life. Her method is analogy and story, especially her own transgender experience. She excels at transforming complicated concepts into engaging content. She writes about several critical human causes, including identity, gender theory and feminism. She views her work as promoting the essential equality of all humans. Each of us experiences difficulty developing identity and gender, and each of us must engage in these uncomfortable yet crucial processes. As such, her work is best described as human activism making identity safe across the globe. Amy's personal motto is Making Trans safe across the globe. Amy's personal model is making transgender normal since 2022. Here's our conversation. Hi, amy, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 2

Hi. Thank you for inviting me, Of course.

Speaker 1

So you have an interesting background. You were a geneticist, a chemist, a software engineer, a manager and now you are a content creator. Talk to us a little bit about the career journey and what landed you where you are now.

Speaker 2

Sure, it's an interesting story. So I grew up in the 1970s and at that time genetics was starting to be like an interesting thing. And in sixth grade I was going through elementary school. And when I graduated from elementary school by that time 12 years old, 13 years old I was well aware that I was different in some way and my belief was that if I learned enough about genetics I'd be able to fix myself, whatever that meant. But I knew that I was different. So I guess my point is I went into a background in biology molecular biology and I was studying genetics, ended up finishing a BS in chemistry and then I did a PhD in analytical chemistry, so I learned about experimental design and data analysis techniques, things like that, and then I immediately went into the software field because I knew I was going to have to spend a lot of time doing like a postdoc or something to get a job that I wanted to do in science.

Speaker 2

And it was easy to get a job in software because I did it in aerospace and aerospace thrives on nepotism. So that's how I got a job, because I had no experience in software whatsoever, but I got a job and it seemed to work. It clicked for me and I went into management. Really, I was kind of forced into it, so I don't know that I want to say forced, because that sounds weird, but I always got positions of responsibility. I was always given responsibility, authority, because I'm the kind of person who wants to see a bigger picture. And so that's how I ended up, you know, as a team lead, and then later a software architect, and then finally going into management. So ultimately I got to, like you know, vp level management positions in software.

Speaker 2

But end of 2021, I had somewhat of a breakdown not even somewhat like the drive you to the hospital kind of breakdown and my wife, who had known that I'm transgender for 20 years, said it's time for you to address this. And so, in July of 2022, I started transition. I put on my first estrogen patch I don't know why I'm holding my hand up, because there's no actual patch in it, but I put the first patch on and within weeks two weeks, maybe three I experienced really significant cognitive changes, like I felt emotions, I felt pain, I felt joy, I mean even physical pain, and I realized like my relationship to myself was not very good, and so I thought it's time for me to research myself, I thought maybe I could go back to genetics how do I fix myself? And as I started writing about myself really just my own transgender experience I realized I'm really talking about a community, the bigger transgender community. And then I realized, no, I'm not talking just about the transgender community, I'm talking about the LGBTQ community. And then I realized no, I'm not talking about just the LGBTQ community, I'm talking about the human experience, lgbtq community. I'm talking about the human experience because all of us end up having to look inside and figure out who we are, develop identity, develop gender.

Speaker 2

And so, by the end of 2022, I retired from software and I started writing full-time, creating content, full-time to research identity and gender. Where do we get these things? Is sex the same as gender and, if not, where does it come from? So now, fast forward a couple of years. Here I am talking to you, having written gosh I don't know. It's about 170 articles recorded, a bit more than 100 podcast episodes, episodes made I don't know 200 and some odd videos, because I have a passion for this. You know, the election that we just had was somewhat of a referendum on transgender people, and I'm concerned by that, you know, and so this is why I do this full-time, because I, because I don't believe that gender is just one of those things that queer people have to deal with. Identity is not one of those things that only we have to deal with. Everybody does, everybody who was just elected, everybody who just voted. So that's my journey, that's the whole thing, right?

Speaker 1

So you mentioned that you did some research about gender and sex. What's one of the more interesting things that you find during your research about differentiating between sex and gender.

Speaker 2

Early biologists, when they wanted to describe species, when they wanted to differentiate species, recognized that there was one easy way to do it, and that's were the species able to reproduce just with one organism or did it take two or more? So asexual versus sexual reproduction, and then, within the sexual reproduction part of the hierarchy of species, they realized that there were two different types of gametes, you know two different things that came together to create a zygote that ultimately became a new organism. But what they recognized was that many species are born with the ability to create a gamete, but many species are not. Mammals are not Like. When I was born, I had not reached sexual maturity immediately and as a result, you have to question well, what am I? Did? I have a sex as an infant, but then there are other species that will go through a sequence. So there's something called sequential hermaphrodism, where the species will start off as one sex and then change the gamete they produce later on in life. Off as one sex and then change the gamete they produce later on in life, and then there are other species that will actually change the gamete they produce based on social pressures, and it turns out there are fish in the Great Barrier Reef. This is what I found the most fascinating, and I realize it took me two minutes to get here. I always have to throw in a big foundation, but there are species of fish where there's a social structure and there's only one male in the social structure, and when that male dies, one of the females literally changes sex to start producing sperm.

Speaker 2

And because there were all these interesting ways of expressing sex, biologists had to create a new definition. That definition had to relate to physicality, it had to relate to behavior, it had to relate to social pressures In humans, it relates to cognition as well, and that word's really super simple and it's just gender as well. And that word's really super simple, and it's just gender. So I found it fascinating that scientists have differentiated between sex and gender pretty much forever, by necessity, and so what's so crazy to me is that now we have laws that are coming out that say well, no, the two are the same. But if scientists have said this for hundreds of years, why are we still so far behind?

Speaker 2

And I think that ends up being a language problem. It ends up being a religion problem. There are a lot of reasons, but that's what I found most fascinating was. This was not new, because we'll hear politicians say, oh my gosh, we've only talked about gender for a decade. Oh really, oh, that's fascinating, given that you know there were people researching gender at the beginning of the 20th century. So I think that's probably where I want to end, because I could go on and on. There's so many fascinating things when you talk about sex and gender. There's so many fascinating things when you talk about sex and gender. One is purely biological and one has every aspect of the organism, every individual organism, implicit.

Speaker 1

So are we calling sex biological based on chromosomes?

Speaker 2

Oh, great question. So sex is a species-level abstraction to imply what gametes an organism creates and I probably didn't say that very well two minutes ago but because there are species that can change that, especially based on social pressures. That's why sex is incomplete to describe an individual. So a sex ultimately describes a species as opposed to an individual. We use the word inaccurately to imply like, let's say, genotype. You had mentioned chromosomes, but a genotype applies to an individual and doesn't apply to a species.

Speaker 2

And we've seen there are humans with an XX genotype who develop male reproductive parts because of the way genetics works. We've seen humans with an XY genotype who develop female reproductive parts because genetics isn't completely cut and dry. Yeah, not at all. The definition of sex only has to do with what gametes are being produced. Okay, but mammals in particular don't even create gametes. When we're born, right, and if you have an accident or let's say, I don't know, have gender-affirming surgery, I don't make any gametes at all. So what am I? It doesn't make a difference, because my gender is a complex of my physical aspects, my cognitives, my behavioral, expressed within a social environment.

Speaker 1

So it sounds like you would say that when we're born we are assigned a gender based on external physical characteristic and what we produce happens after puberty or around puberty, and that is a little more illustrative of male and female.

Speaker 2

Well, on my birth certificate I had an M, so it was the difference between M and F. So I was assigned a sex at birth, not a gender. So I find that to be somewhat useless. I mean, first of all, I'm kind of curious what does that do? Because when you have intersex individuals, what do you call those people? If there's only a binary of sex that doesn't describe 8 billion people on the planet? It can't, it can't. So I guess, to answer your question, yeah, we are assigned something based on the most obviously presenting physical parts, but those physical parts when I was an infant, when you two were infants, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with who we grow up to be. I grew up to be a woman, but I still had an M on my birth certificate. So I find that to be a useless distinction.

Speaker 2

Ultimately and there are, you know, there are many things that have come from that Obviously, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 has sex as a protected class, which is a bummer. Just as a quick aside, the state of New York just passed Proposition 1, which amends their constitution to read gender identity, not sex, as a protected class, and I thought that's fabulous. I'm glad that there's at least one state that can recognize. You know, science has distinguished between these two for a long time, and maybe the law should too. So hopefully that answered your question all right.

Understanding Gender and Identity Formation

Speaker 1

It did. It did so based on all your research and, by the way, I'm also a researcher, a data analyst, but not in the realm of genetics or chemistry or any of the more complicated things, I just do social science. But in your research and your own experiences, what have you come to construct as your original theory about identity and gender?

Speaker 2

All right, that's a great question. I want to start off, though, by asking one of you a question, so I'll ask you, dr Angelica, what's your favorite vegetable?

Speaker 1

Rattlegreen Brussels sprouts.

Speaker 2

Nope, nope, it's asparagus. How can you say that? Exactly, that's my. I believe each of us come into this life with this set of knowledge. There are things that we know, we know, but we don't know why we know them. I think your favorite vegetables one of those. I think that there are other aspects, like I have always wanted to see a bigger picture. I mentioned that earlier. Some people are very detail-oriented. I want to see a bigger picture. These are things I know, so I know that's important and other people go no, cut it out, it's not important, but you can't tell me that it's stuff I know.

Speaker 2

So in my theory of identity and gender as an offshoot of identity, we have what I just call the origin of identity, not a phenomenal name, but you know scientists, if there's one thing we're not good at, it's nomenclature right. I mean, there's no scientist who's made like a zippy name for something, so it's the origin of identity. It's like this core set of knowledge that we have as we grow up. We have a core set of knowledge, but we also have to live within a social environment, and so there are certain things our social environment wants to impress upon us, like, for instance, my social environment said I should have short hair and wear pants, cut my fingernails, cut my hair, take my nail polish off. You know that's what my social environment expected of me, but I knew that those were important to me Longer hair, pretty nail polish, whatever. So we continually go through this process of negotiation of the core bits of knowledge that we have and what we can express safely within our social environment, and that process there is ultimately what identity is.

Speaker 2

So there are two big theories of gender right now. The one is the sort of standard anti-LGBTQ rhetoric from the conservatives that sex is gender. If your chromosomes look like this, then you should have particular physicality and that means you should have a particular gender, which means you should have a particular sexuality. And then on the other side, there's Judith Butler's theory that gender is a social construct, that we give the word gender meaning by applying it to people, and I don't think either of those works gender meaning by applying it to people, and I don't think either of those works exceptionally well, one says we are a product of biology. I don't like that very much because clearly I am not, and I don't like the idea that we are a product of our social environment, and so I believe what I've put together addresses both of those that we are in some way born this way, and while we're born this way, we also have to build that within our social environment.

Speaker 1

There's a bit more to it to throw experience into that, but I don't know how philosophical you want me to get. I have a question here. So, based on what Anton and Jodi said and Dr Amy, based on what Anton Jodica said and Dr Ailey, that's totally true. So we were assigned a gender at BIRD and SYNC, at SYNC, I'm sorry, I was assigned at SYNC, at BIRD and then your gender came into formation during your pre-retreat. But what about those younger children that are 5, 6? Start saying you know, I was born a girl but I wanted to be a boy. I was a girl and I wanted to be the light. So if it starts at puberty, I'm just trying to understand Right.

Speaker 2

So I don't think it begins at puberty. We develop sexual maturity at puberty, but we come into this life with a set of knowledge and our gender begins there. You know our gender and our sexuality for that matter, because when I looked at my social environment, I grew up with three sisters, so I learned things like hair and makeup and boys, and there were some things that I looked at that I said, oh, those are important. Then there are certain things that I didn't. I mean, for instance, I identify as pansexual now, which is I'm not always interested solely in boys. So even though that was something that was in my environment, I didn't pick it up as a woman.

Speaker 2

Now, everybody has different things that we find important. Hair is important to me, eye makeup is important to me, wearing a skirt is very important to me. I hate pants, but there are many people who don't. You know people who were tomboys. They looked at their social environment and said I don't like certain things and I do like others, and so that's really the interaction there. We come in and come into this life and we know certain things about ourselves, what we like, what we dislike, and that is ultimately the expression of gender there so what you're thinking about, gender is a feeling.

Speaker 2

I think gender is a knowledge. A feeling is too ephemeral. There are things we just know, like I know that I like liquid eyeliner. Why I don't know because I do. You know, just because the reason why you like brussels sprouts right, so I wouldn't call it a feeling. Now these things can change you.

Speaker 2

You start off with some core knowledge, but experience changes how we know it, and one of the examples I had like I've always like thinner, more effeminate men and I never cared for like big muscles. I just it's just not me, and I don't remember who it was. I forget who it was, but I saw somebody with his shirt off at one point and I went, yeah, oh, my gosh. Well, okay, that's interesting. I saw somebody with big pectoralis muscles and I went, all right, well, gosh, maybe I do like that, and I don't know why it took this one man with big pecs to change my mind.

Speaker 2

But having experienced it, I went, okay, well, now I know something different, and so I think the best way to put this like we start off with a grain of sand and, as we exist, as oysters I'm not sure if I enjoyed this allegory so well anymore but we accrete knowledge on top of it. So our identity is always this pearl that that takes our experience of life to create, and it's our experience of life within a social environment. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't want to say feeling, it's a knowledge.

Speaker 1

Some of this is born this way, period well I wonder if I'm gonna declare that, to what do you call it when you say I'm an introvert or some an ambivert or some extrovert? Do you see any parallels there? Because I may not have had language for it at an early age, but other people did it and would probably have said that I was an introvert and as I had some experiences, I agreed with that and then, as I had more experiences and even changed as I got older, I classified myself more in the introvert now. So it felt like what I know to be true about myself and who I am is based on my experiences with the world.

Speaker 2

Yes, I agree. I agree, and I've always been fascinated for what it's worth with personality type assessments, for a couple of reasons. One reason is because, like I said, I always thought there was something wrong with me, and so if I could just be classified, I'd know what I was, and so I don't know. Things would get better, and I never knew what step three was right. It was like figure out who I was. Things are better, right. So so I do agree. I think that those are aspects you know. You mentioned cognitive aspects and behavioral aspects, and I do think that those are some of you know. You mentioned cognitive aspects and behavioral aspects, and I do think that those are some of the things that we are born into Now.

Speaker 2

That being said, if you were to have talked to me, maybe 2010, so almost 15 years ago I would not have been this what's the word I want to use? Effusive. I was not great at talking to people. I didn't like to talk to people, and it's not that I really enjoy it now, but I am better at doing it. I think this was a skill that I was capable of developing, despite being exceptionally shy as a child and frightened of having to speak to people. So I think there's both. I mean, I came into this life thinking that people don't, that I'm not worth anything. Some of that was core knowledge. I think some of that was literally beaten into me by my parents and now I've moved past it, now I've transcended it, I've learned to transcend it.

Speaker 1

Okay, I have two more more technical questions before we shift gears and get to more relationship stuff. All right, you said something early on about when you had the estrogen patch. You started experiencing different emotions and your cognition was different because of an increase in phenol hormones. Or do you think that you had a disconnect and you didn't know yourself very well and somehow this?

Speaker 2

brought them forth. That is an exceptional question. I wrote an article about it early on in which I concluded I don't know. I would say there was one aspect. One aspect of it is that I was suddenly caring for myself. I had spent 52 years denying who I was. So the reason pressure had built up so badly by the time I was 52 was because we have a son. Because we have a son, and when I found out we were having a son, I thought, oh shit, because I didn't know anything about boys. How was I going to raise a boy? I was not good at sports, I didn't know like what was I going to do, but I knew very well that boys need fathers and fathers are men. That was my mantra. Now I'm getting a little emotional because what I decided was that I would bury anything feminine for the sake of my son, which ended up not helping, by the way, Because within 10 years, I was ready to harm myself.

Speaker 2

I was ready to harm myself, and so when I transitioned, when I put that first patch on, I think one aspect of it was that I was finally doing something for myself, that I was finally caring for myself. So when I first put the estrogen patch on. It took about two weeks and then I started feeling breast bud development, which is atypical. Apparently, it's typically six to nine months before breast bud development starts with estrogen therapy, and my estrogen therapy has always been very mild.

Defining Gender and Identity Formation

Speaker 2

But it turns out that when I first presented at the hormone clinic, I had a really high testosterone blood concentration and we were like well, how is it that I didn't turn out very masculine with this high testosterone blood concentration? So the guess is that I have a partial androgen insensitivity syndrome, so an intersex characteristic that I would never have even known unless I started gender transition. So it's possible that, because I couldn't use testosterone very efficiently, that putting estrogen into the mix helped me biochemically. But I believe honestly the bigger part is caring for myself, because there is no similarity between you know, this 52-year-old fat, crabby old man who wanted to die and this happy, purple-haired lady sitting in front of you now who wants to live. No similarity between the two.

Speaker 1

And you identify as a woman, your pronouns are she, her. I'm very interested in your responsibilities again, especially based on your background. What is a woman?

Speaker 2

Alright, I'm putting together the arguments because I want to start with one aspect of it. So cis and trans, those two prefixes come from Latin, right? And they have been used in organic chemistry in particular to describe a carbon-to-carbon double bond. And it's important with carbon-carbon double bonds because these cannot twist. So if you have other atoms attached to these carbons, they can't move in relationship to each other because it's a double bond and it's rigid. And I bring this up because in that case it makes a difference whether you say two functional groups attached to the two carbons, or on the same side of meaning cis, or on the opposite side from meaning trans, which is those two prefixes, uh-huh, but those two carbons are necessarily in a relationship, they're bonded to each other, right? I mean that's why we use those two terms behavior and all of this within a context of the time in which we live. So now we'll finally get to your question.

Speaker 2

Each of us has a different gender. It's the way I would put it. I've had people ask me how many genders are there and I say oh, how many genders? Just one, yours, I have. It shuts down conversation, right? Because they go no wait, no wait, what damn, I gotta go back and think about this, you know. So the point is, you ask me what is a woman? What is a woman? Is a little, I mean, it's a complicated question, because let me ask you this. Here's my question that I will ask you because it's a clarifying question. If I were to throw out three characteristics, say. It's a clarifying question If I were to throw out three characteristics, say wearing high heels, having long lavish hair and having extensive makeup, are these feminine characteristics or are they masculine characteristics?

Speaker 1

I would call those feminine characteristics not necessarily indicative of being a woman, but they are feminine characteristics. Okay Right, I agree being a woman. But they have feminine characteristics. Okay Right, I agree.

Speaker 2

Well. So one thing you didn't ask me was when? What's the social environment? Because if you look at pre-revolution France, for instance, women barely wore makeup. Women did not wear high heels. Men did, because it made them look more powerful. Men had big wigs that they would wear because it made them look more powerful. Men had big wigs that they would wear because it made them look more powerful. Men had makeup to look very, you know, I don't know like tigers do. I'm trying to come up with. Why do they wear makeup? I don't know, but those were the peak of masculinity in pre-revolution France. Here in Western society, those are the peak I don't know about the peak of femininity, but certainly feminine characteristics.

Speaker 2

So what we would call a woman in pre-revolution France is not what we would call a woman. Now allows that evolution to occur, that what we call a woman here in the United States is different from what they would call a woman in pre-revolution France. So what is a woman? Yeah, you have to ask me In Western society right now. Then, what I want to do? I love doing this too, because I like to use one of the heroes of conservatives, dagny Taggart In the book Atlas Shrugged just as the train was just about to go down the tracks. A reporter said who is John Galt? And Dagny Taggart said we are, and so if what you're going to do is say what is a woman, I am Okay. I wish I could have dropped a mic there, but it's on a stand. That was the appropriate point to go thunk.

Navigating Relationships Through Gender Transition

Speaker 1

Absolutely Okay. So in the let me just I'm out of. There's so much I want to dive into. I guess you said that your wife has always known that you were trans. Yes, In the sense of knowing that you externally identified as male, but they knew you were female. Yeah, A woman. Yeah, A woman. Okay, Well, let's make that distinction. How are you distinguishing female and woman? So?

Speaker 2

male and female are definitions of classes of organisms that create a particular gamete. So those relate to sex, man and woman do not. They relate to it's going to do it.

Speaker 1

Perfect, all right, thanks for clarifying. That was my assumption, but I just wanted to make sure. Thank you. First of all, how old were you when the you when you met? Because that makes a difference.

Speaker 2

So we met in 2000. And on our first date this is how our first date went so we go out to a nice restaurant we were in, oh gosh, we were in the valley, the San Fernando Valley, like Southwest Valley and we went to this decent, decent Italian place and we sat down and I said, okay, cause we were just coming out of relationships Both of us had long-term relationships we were coming out of. And I said tell me everything wrong about you and I'll tell you everything wrong about me. And we thought, you know, this would be great, right, cause you don't have to wait two years to find out. Wait a minute, that's what you are. Oh dang, you know, I invested two years. We hoped we could sort of get to the point where each of us went quickly, you know, so that we could break up fast. So now, 24 years later, it didn't work, obviously.

Speaker 2

But yeah, that was one of the first things I said. I said that you know, I struggle with mental health and also I am both woman and man. And I said, you know, I've I've dressed up in women's clothes quite a bit when I was in graduate school, you know, it was just, it was like a weekly thing, a weekend thing. And my wife said wow, really. Yeah, I'd like to see you like that sometime, man, fine. And so now she does, and I'll tell you. When I started transitioning, I thought about that conversation and I went up to talk to her. She was lying on the bed like reading a book or something. I said hey, do you remember? You said you want to see me cross-dress. Now you're going to see it all the time. And she looked at me and she goes no, I won't. You're going to have to put your pants back on for that to happen. And I went that's true. This is why I stick with you, lady.

Speaker 1

So did she identify as heterosexual queer before, like in the beginning? Yeah, I mean, I asked her because she would go hey, dude, look at Before, like in the beginning.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean I asked her because she would go hey, dude, look at that girl, isn't she cute? And I'd go yeah or no, you know maybe. And I would ask her, well, are you bisexual? Like what do you like what is this? And she'd go, oh, no, no, that's no. Well, and honestly, I mean, it might have been 2023, even that I said so listen, honestly, like because I got to know, do you like girls? And she went I don't really care about parts, I care about the person. And I went damn it, you're still dodging the question, but you know, I have gone through all of the medical transition. I got, you know, my surgery, I got gender-affirming surgery this past summer and we've been intimate. So I think that answers the question.

Speaker 1

At the very least, she's interested in me right, so you have both top and bottom surgery yes.

Speaker 2

So I didn't expect to get a top surgery, like I didn't plan to. I didn't really want to, and but I went to thailand because my insurance claim was denied, like you do. And so so when we were looking at thailand, we had set aside a certain amount of money to to do the, and it turned out in Thailand they would do both at once. They would do both breast augmentation and the vaginoplasty at once, and so I was like, well, I don't know that I want to do this. And my wife was really like you know what? Just do it once. You have to just get one surgery and be done with it, heal up both.

Speaker 2

So I did end up getting augmentation and I will tell you I didn't really want it. But then when I got back to the hotel after spending a week in the hospital because in Thailand they actually care for you after gender affirming surgery who would think? But I went back, there was a top that I always wanted to love, but I didn't quite love, and I put it on in the hotel room and I looked in the mirror and I cried. I didn't think it would be so amazing. It was very profound. I didn't think it would have the effect it did and it's been life altering.

Speaker 1

And in terms of sex, do you think it's better or is it? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2

Look, I just love peepers. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. So one of the things that has been so life altering. It was kind of funny. I remember we were actually back in the US too, and I need to get to the sex part too.

Transition, Sex, and Family Acceptance

Speaker 2

But I remember I was reading a book, I was lying in bed and I was reading a book and I was like I got to go pee, put the book down. I went pee, I came back and I picked the book up and I looked at my wife and I said you know, it is so nice just to be able to put a book down and go pee and come back. And she looked at me and she's like, yeah, I mean, that's sort of what you do, isn't it? And I said no, because really what I used to do, just before surgery even, was go into the bathroom and I'd lift up my skirt and go oh you again, I'm looking at this thing right. Then I'd pull my panties down, but it's not just pulling panties down, because you got to untangle everything and sit down and stuff the whole thing in there and the sound isn't right, because I know what it sounds like for a girl to go pee. Then I'd stand back up and then pack it all back into the panties. And then one last little F, you right. Or I could look and go oh yeah, it's still you. And go back into the room and you read right, there is so much energy associated with that that I didn't expect I expended so much energy. Not just. You know that I would see the parts and go I don't like the parts. But I'd see the parts and there was some shame that I didn't like the parts. There was guilt that I didn't conform to social expectations that people with these parts should be a certain way, and there was all the ruminations on the shame and the guilt and the parts. And it just kept going and building. And so I've lost that. It's gone. Never again, never again. But sex is so much better too.

Speaker 2

I mean, I will tell you one of the things that I didn't like about sex was this sort of stiff sensation that was also kind of sticky. You know I didn't like that and I was always the one hit wonder. You know like I would have one orgasm. That's it. We're going to wait until tomorrow, right, maybe, maybe try, try that, try again.

Speaker 2

Well, once I started on estrogen therapy, my orgasms changed like dramatically. They became more like full body and I think as I started to, as I started to come into who I was I'm going to use that cute little pun right the orgasms became like full soul kind of experiences. It wasn't just a body thing. And so now, now, with these new parts, that first orgasm after surgery was indescribable. It now, when I think about sex, it's like all the good parts of everything I ever enjoyed about sex, with none of the bad parts, no guilt, no shame afterward. It's just the most beautiful thing. And I think to myself you know what? Maybe normal people, this is what normal people usually feel like right, and I don't know, because I don't think I'll ever be normal, not like any of us is. But yeah, it's phenomenal. It is phenomenal now that I've had surgery. That was maybe a longer answer than you expected, but love.

Speaker 1

It was very inviteful. Thank you. It really makes me think, because you don't get to ask that question often what sex like being a man versus being a woman and I'd never, I only just spoke I'm always been curious about, about always just focus on what feels better to that particular body part. But the way you describe the overall sensation yeah, sensation or experience of having an orgasm that it's more soulful and deep for a woman, that probably explained a lot about why men see sex differently than women do. I think so women will work. You feel more intimate and connected when you have sex. But for me and it's like, oh, and I didn't mean anything, that was just sex yes, I think that's 100, and I always wanted a connection.

Speaker 2

There's a word for this, I think it's demisexual.

Speaker 2

That means you have to have an emotional connection with somebody before you can have sex, and that's been true for me, that it's been difficult for me to go to like a dance club or something and go, sure I'll go home with you and then like actually perform. So the connection, yes, is so huge for me, has always been huge for me, and now I feel, because I'm connected to my own body, I can connect better to my wife's body, I connect better to the universe and I think that's why it's this full soul kind of experience now, because I feel myself in the right place in the universe now. Feel myself in the right place in the universe now and it sounds really woo-woo. I mean, gosh, I was talking about genetics earlier and I was talking about, you know, the distinction between sex and gender, and then I'm going to throw out something that, like my place in the universe feels more solid. But it's true, yeah, it's true. I think that's what gender affirming care does for us. I have one more question.

Speaker 1

I have lots more questions, but this is the last one I will ask or inquire about, and it is your experience with your son. So, really, how old was he when you decided to get gender affirming surgery and how did you explain that?

Speaker 2

oh my gosh this, so explains our kid. So, oh wait, so let me back up?

Speaker 1

sure is this. This is a question that only queer people get. How did your child come to be? Oh, gosh.

Speaker 2

So that's an interesting question, because neither of my wife nor I really cares for penetrative sex. So at some point my wife says, ok, look, we have to buy a house. And I went, oh, I thought we said we were never going to buy a house. And she goes yeah, yeah, yeah, but now we have to go buy a house. And I went OK. And like a year or two later she goes OK, now we have to have a kid. And I said, well, 20 years ago, all right, we can do that.

Speaker 2

So it took some months because it wasn't a way that we wanted to be intimate with each other, right? So that's how it came to be. It was really. My wife went okay, it's time for a kid. And I went, oh, shoot, okay, I have to do. Was at all my knowing Right? Well, you know, after our son was born, we were like like okay, we said we were going to have two kids, you want to have two kids. So we tried for like three or four months and I think on the fourth try I remember her getting into bed with a thing. She goes oh, it was negative. Now, first of all, I was like why do you have this pea-covered stick. Why did you bring that? Would you bring that to bed? It's not cool, what are you doing? But so she, but she goes, oh yeah, it's negative. And and I said, okay, and she goes, and maybe that's okay. And I went, maybe that's okay, and she goes, do you want to stop? And I said, yeah, let's stop. She goes, okay, we're stopped done. We're only having one kid way.

Speaker 2

So when our son was, let's see, they would have been 11. So it was 2022. And I remember it was in August, so I'd been on HRT for maybe six weeks. Might've been less, but I remember my wife was out, I don't know she was doing something and it was just me and our son at home alone. And for some reason, I left the bedroom door open.

Speaker 2

I don't even know why, but I started putting a patch on and a kid walks by and goes, hey, what are you doing? And I went right. I was like sit down, okay, it's down. And I said so because I haven't thought about this how am I going to come out to my kid? I haven't thought about it, so I'm doing this extemporaneously. I go you know how mom is? And our kid goes, yeah, like a girl. And I go yeah, there you go. Right, I'm going to try to become like that. And he looks down and thinks for a second and goes wow, I'm really glad you found what's gonna make you happy, 11 years old, right, wow. So then says well, are you gonna like you're gonna get boobs? And I said I I go well, I hope.

Speaker 2

And then and then it says are you still gonna be a boy? And I said do you mean, am I gonna get parts cut off like here? Eyes get really big, lego, I don't know yet. And he looks back down and goes I am so glad you found what's going to make you happy. And then goes hang on, I know, because I'm going to make you the. I'll make you the dress and I can get you. I'll make you the thing and you can put your weapons on it. And then it'll be so great it goes running out of the room where I'm like, put my weapons.

Speaker 1

Is he talking about superhero?

Speaker 2

well, I've, actually I've got it right here, but it was ended up making me like a little rack here. So sorry, these are supposed to be like little chakrams, that, like little throwing bladed things. Yeah, and so this was what my son made me to. To commemorate figuring out who I am, I've continued to use our son, my kid, and trying hard not to use pronouns, because really am I that bad at it.

Speaker 1

No, it is what we do, so I know it is when people say they are.

Speaker 2

Right, because at one point we're driving to like best buy. I don't even know, by the way, everybody best buy paid handsomely for this product placement, but I'm doing here, all right. So we're driving to like an electronics store. Son looks up at me and goes hey, hey, so I was being called kid because kitten, you know, this is what I'm called. So, because we started off, we tried names, you know, do I get called Damn? Do I get called Mad, both of which were absolutely appropriate given how crabby I was, you know, as a father, right.

Speaker 2

But looks up and says hey, kitten, you know I'm non-binary, right. And I go, oh, yeah, for sure, because our son had said you know I'm non-binary, right. And I go, oh, yeah, for sure, because our son had said you know they were non-binary before. But I said to him wait, do you want me to use they-them pronouns? And he looks up at me and goes what? No? And he goes hang on, yeah, let's try that. And so, you know, the pronouns are he-they. Okay with he. But my point in telling that story is to say that that's how it should be with parents and children, right? My, my kid told me hey, this is who I am. And I said understood and because it shouldn't be anything else. Our kids are not our little playthings. Our kids are not our Barbie dolls. Kids are not models of ourselves. Our kids have identities and we should respect them.

Speaker 1

That was a beautiful story. I was. I love it and it really speaks to how it brings him to be accepting and really focusing on internal rather than external, and all those things.

Challenges and Hope in Trans Rights

Speaker 2

So our son's now 13. So, an interesting thing when they started going to this new school, it came out that I'm transgender and our son became like a celebrity, like there are kids who are like whoa, wait a minute, you have a parent who's transgender. Because these kids you know I hate using this phrase kids these days, but kids these days they are really hyper aware of who they are and it doesn't make a difference. It's like look, you're you, I'm me. And I will tell you.

Speaker 2

Having watched my son go through my transition I know that's kind of a weird way to say that, but having watched our son go through that I have great hope for the queer community as a whole. I think the classified is maybe late Gen Z Might be alpha, but it gives me hope to think that they could just go oh, wow, you're going to do something for yourself. Excellent and yeah. And then be so open and just to say look, here's who I am. You know, I would never have done that with my parents. You know my father died before I came out, well before I came out the second time, because the women in my family were aware of who I am. But in fact, actually, quick aside, when I came out to my three sisters, all three of them without exception had something similar to oh well, yeah.

Speaker 2

If I said, listen, listen, I'm transgender. Oh well, yeah, I'm okay, my oldest sister said yeah, I know, we had this conversation, don't you remember? It was 30 years ago. And I went oh my gosh, I can't believe you remember that conversation. And she said well, when you have a family member who tells you they're transgender, you remember that. And I was like, no, okay, cool. So they all knew. And in fact, actually, my oldest sister said we've just been waiting for you to transition. And I was like, well, that's cool, so I'm glad I'm here now.

Speaker 1

I want to add to you, Amy how are you feeling, emotionally or mentally, Given the state of this past, when you get election results, knowing what is administration have the potential of doing to have a transgender individuals, or even if it's not for yourself but for other transgender individuals, out?

Speaker 2

there. So, right off the bat, I would say that that I'm in a little bit of a state of mourning there. There was unprecedented anti-transgender campaigning going on and in the meantime, sarah McBride was elected to the House of Representatives for Delaware as a representative to Delaware and there were I didn't actually check the results on this, but there were no fewer than 18 openly transgender candidates running for state legislatures this election cycle. So there's a little bit of a mourning that I'm going through, because I know that Donald Trump made comments about transgender people. There were many conservative candidates who ran on platforms anti-transgender platforms and at the same time, I've also read statistics that three out of four people well, first of all, something like three out of four people don't trust our politicians to do a good job. So that's an interesting factoid. But I also read a statistic that most people didn't want to focus on gender issues anymore. They also believe that our politicians a majority, a good majority believe that our politicians aren't qualified to talk about gender and need to let it go. So while these campaigns were anti-transgender I'm going to use the phrase I have to believe that that's not why these people were elected.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and maybe that's burying my head in the sand, maybe that's you know, I've become a Pollyanna, but I just, I don't, I don't, I can't believe that. I can't believe that the United States, that a country that's supposedly founded on individual rights, would be as hateful and discriminatory as it is. And I got to tell you I mean, this is coming from somebody who has faced a decent amount of hate and discrimination in the past couple of years. So maybe I'm stupid, Maybe I shouldn't believe what I do, but I got to believe that the people are good, are good, and so the message that I have because I had people reach out to me on Wednesday and say, oh my gosh, what are we going to do.

Speaker 2

And my first response hopefully none of them listens to this. I actually hope they do, because my first response was fuck, if I know, like, why ask me? Right, you know why ask me. And then I thought, well, actually the thing is that good leaders are going to provide a message of hope. And if you notice Kamala Harris, rather than bitching and moaning about you know, we should probably check votes, we should do. Whatever Russian conspiracy theory, whatever said, the fight's not over, not for her, not for us. And so that was the same message I delivered, not because I saw Kamala's speech. But if we give up, then hate wins. Yes, so I'm in a period of mourning and when I'm finished, I'm going back to fighting. That's right.

Speaker 1

Oh, if Hope and Maddie and the other siblings is what's going to keep us throughout these four years, there are going to be challenges that the LGBTQ plus community and especially trans owners in the VUMA, are going to face, a lot of challenges that we're going to have to come to dinner as a community and really stand up for each other.

Speaker 2

This is, I believe, ultimately a matter of education, and Sarah McBride, whom I mentioned before, will now go into the House of Representatives, and now I think there will be members of Congress who will interact with a real transgender person instead of like a straw man, like they've been doing for the past four years that they've been attacking this community. So hopefully that will help. But then I also pin my hopes on my son and that generation and just say at some point the old guard goes away. I don't want to have to wait, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. So I'll fight until I'm gone, and then I expect her son to fight after I'm gone.

Speaker 1

So Amy, it has been a pleasure speaking with you, hearing about your story and your perspective, especially from a scientific lens. I could talk to you for much longer, but tell me, you said you've written over 170 articles. Are those on a website? Where can one find those?

Speaker 2

So there are two ways you can find me. My personal website is amethystaio, so that's A-M-E-T-H-Y-S-T-A dot I-O. That's my personal website because I do gender coaching as well, so I'm helping people Really. It's like project planning for gender transition, which is great, because I spent a lot of time in technology doing project planning, but now I'm doing projects. I care about, like people becoming who they are and I care about that. I don't really care about tech bros making a bunch of money I never did. But so amethystio there's that. And then the other one is genderidentitytodaycom. That's my professional website. An interesting bit on that too. So all of my work is published there. But I also love contributions. So if there's a listener out there who says, oh, I have some interesting stuff, reach out to me through my personal website and I would love to publish it. Awesome. And your podcast. The podcast is called Gender Identity Weekly, which actually you'll find at genderidentitytodaycom slash podcast.

Promoting Civil Discourse in Advocacy

Speaker 2

You know you introduced me as an activist and much of what I do is kind of philosophical in some scientific, but I do that because I believe ultimately you have to change understanding and underlying beliefs. When I was making a video about this message of hope, one of the things that I considered writing was we need to educate people on why their vote was wrong, but to those people it wasn't wrong, and I think it's a much better idea to teach people so that they go oh dang, I think my vote was wrong, rather than just tell them outright. And so my activism is maybe I should call it passivism, I don't know, because most of what I do is try to do thought leadership and, you know, does it work For what it's worth? I've had probably well, I don't know at least four to 10 people on YouTube who will leave me a comment that says you're an idiot with more detail. And then I'll go oh, explain that. And they go well, you're an idiot because of X, y and Z.

Speaker 2

And I'll go, oh, you're an idiot with more detail. And then I'll go, oh, explain that. And they go well, you're an idiot because of X, y and Z. And I'll go, oh, that's an interesting point, what about this, this, this? So four or five people. It happened this week where somebody said, hey, you're an idiot, and I said, oh, well, let me explain what I meant. And the person went oh, my gosh, you talked to me civilly and then followed me on YouTube and I went wow, apparently I changed a mind. Civil discourse should be civil, and that's the way to change minds.

Speaker 1

All right, that's nice. There you have it Amy Farag a wife, a mother, an activist and philanthropist, and a transgender advocate non- advocate novelizing transgender in the community. She was a chemist, she's a researcher, a content creator and a development space to tell the trans story In the while. Thank you so much for being on the Core Understanding. I'm sure this information will read the word and it's just very informative and it gives them hope. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you both, thank you.