A Queer Understanding

Queer Romance Meets Action: How Arden Coutts Brings LGBTQ+ Experiences to the Suspense Genre

• Dr. Angelica & Cassy Thompson • Season 7 • Episode 1

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Discovering your authentic self can be a lifelong journey – one that becomes even more challenging when you lack the language to describe who you are. For author Arden Coutts, growing up in rural Nebraska meant navigating feelings of difference without understanding their source, eventually finding expression through poetry and later through crafting queer romantic suspense novels.

Arden takes us through their evolution from writing sad poems as a child to publishing a trilogy of action-packed queer romances that they lovingly describe as "80s action movies, but gay." Their series – Fall Into Midnight, Fall Into Me, and We All Fall – follows different couples across the gender and sexuality spectrum as they battle both internal demons and an external mafia threat. 

The conversation delves into Arden's journey of self-discovery – from identifying as bisexual in high school to embracing their identity as transmasc non-binary in adulthood. They share candid insights about family reactions, the challenges of finding community, and their experiences navigating relationships as someone whose gender presentation often confuses potential partners.

Ready to dive into Arden's world of queer romantic suspense? Find their books at ardencoutts.com or on Amazon, and join a community that celebrates authentic representation across the spectrum of gender and sexuality.



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Speaker 1:

Arden Counts crafts queer romantic suspense novels that delve deep into the complexities of love and self-discovery as a trans, non-binary individual. Arden uses their own experiences and those of their peers to enhance their work. In their varied and diverse writing, their goal is to share the queer experience with readers, no matter their gender identity or sexual orientation. Readers, no matter their gender identity or sexual orientation. It's Arden's goal to have their writing act as a launching pad to build a community around queer issues and identities. Arden wishes to fill the gap in the publishing industry that exists for people who realize their sexuality and gender later in life. Through this community, arden's goal is to give readers hope that they can find love even as they navigate their journeys. Arden's goal is to give readers hope that they can find love even as they navigate their journeys. Arden's work also aims to encourage readers to think differently about their own perceptions, perspectives and assumptions. Here's our conversation. Welcome, arden. Thank you for being on the show.

Speaker 2:

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3:

Arden. Before we get started, can you let us know what your pronouns are?

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely, I use they, them pronouns Okay great.

Speaker 1:

So you actually are the second novelist we've had on. The one person we had does graphic novels, so I'm excited to hear about your twist on things. His was like a historical sci-fi twist on things, yeah, so I'll have to definitely connect you to your. But so you write queer romantic suspense novels focusing on love and self-discovery.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I like to say that I write. They're like eighties action movies, but gay.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right, so tell us about what you have recently published.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have been working on a trilogy for the last two years, with the first book coming out last year and that was Fall Into Midnight, and then this year I published books two and three of that series, which are Fall Into Me. That came out in June of 2024. And the last book in the trilogy we All Fall just came out, november 12th. Congratulations I am self-published in the author. It has been a journey what got you into writing?

Speaker 1:

have you always been interested in in in writing or the arts in some form?

Speaker 2:

oh yeah, absolutely. I grew up with a mother that was a very avid reader and kind of made sure that all of us kids had an appreciation for books, would drop us off at the library as our babysitter kind of situation. So I grew up reading and was also a very sad and depressed child. So I turned to poetry and writing to get my feelings out and express what I was feeling. And it started back when I was eight-ish and I have been writing ever since but didn't take the leap into publishing until 2022 to 2023. So it took me a while to get there, but I finally took the leap okay, oh, you said you were.

Speaker 1:

I have to ask you said you were as a child you were sad and depressed. What contributed to that?

Speaker 2:

oh, so many things. I grew up in a very rural nebraska, like north central Nebraska more cows than people type of situation and mental health, like sexuality and gender conversations were non-existent. Especially during that time as well, like in the 80s and 90s, and it being in Nebraska, being being Nebraska, those conversations weren't had and I grew up with this sense of not belonging anywhere and just being like so desperately alone and that really impacted my mental health because I felt like I didn't belong but I didn't know why I didn't belong or what was causing those feelings. So, working out through poetry, just really sad poems.

Speaker 1:

So you didn't. You felt like you were different, but you didn't know how or why or to what extent.

Speaker 2:

Initially, yeah, and I think it was primarily because I didn't have the language right, because no one was like I always. I grew up with three brothers and I always thought of myself as one of the boys and didn't know that I wasn't until I got a little older and I think, if I have the language now to be like, okay, I'm transmasc, non-binary, that is who I am now, but it took me a long time. It has been a journey through many different um, I don't know, I guess, like definitions of myself okay, yeah, or then during the art as a writer.

Speaker 3:

You mentioned about your childhood. A lot is are there any character in any of those novels, that kind of your childhood?

Speaker 2:

oh, that is a great question.

Speaker 3:

Oh man.

Speaker 2:

I think most of the characters represent me through probably my 20s and 30s where I was still figuring out who I was and struggling with self-confidence and just finding that confidence to be who I am and who I want to be. Especially in the first book, fall Into Midnight, the two main characters, gray and Hannah. Gray is this gender-fluid, very confident, capable character and Hannah is a shy, introverted character and those are very much two parts of who I am and in the end they become one and are this wonderful couple of confidence and like caring and empathy and that's definitely kind of my journey of finding myself in a book that one's definitely special to me.

Speaker 1:

So your characters. So it's a trilogy, so are the same two characters in each of the books.

Speaker 2:

Ooh, they did it fun. They did it in kind of a fun way, I think. So each book is told from a different couple's point of view. Okay, but the same characters are in all three books. So book one and the storyline is overarching throughout each book, so you have to read all three to get the full story.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

But book one is Hannah and Gray, and then book two are Key and Marcus and they're a hetero couple, and then book three is James and Luke. So we get the whole spectrum of relationships and different issues that they encounter, but their goal throughout all three books are to overcome the mafia boss that is causing all the issues.

Speaker 3:

Okay, I like it. You're being very inclusive when you write your novels, not just being on one end of the spectrum, so I really like that yeah.

Speaker 1:

So there is a protagonist and you are telling the story of their interaction with the mafia boss from different couples perspectives, while at the same time you are telling about some relationship issues that they have going on as well yeah, there's definitely oh, I'm like I don't know if I want to call them relationship issues.

Speaker 2:

Definitely a lot of the issues in the books are caused by our protagonist, okay, but the couple, especially Key and Marcus, because Marcus goes through some really traumatizing events and Key has to recognize that he's been through these things and has a little PTSD there's some mental health struggles going on there and has to overcome her desire to be almost too caring towards him and has to back off a little bit until he's ready for her to move at at the pace that he's ready for. So I also like to flip a little bit of the gender role that you would normally see in books, like you'd normally see the male character as the hero that's protecting the damsel in distress and I don't go for that, I've worked with it. So Key is definitely the badass in that book and is caring for Marcus and making sure that he's okay and nursing him back to health.

Speaker 1:

Okay, very cool, he's okay. And nursing him back to health? Okay, very cool. So do any other relationships that you have observed um inform the characters in the novel? So friends, family, anything like that?

Speaker 2:

oh yeah, another great question. Oh, these are wonderful questions. I think a lot of it is my own experiences and the things that I desire. So I explore a lot of platonic relationships as well, like the different types of relationships that you could have. You have your like your co-workers, that you're like close to right but you're maybe not like as close to them as you are with your friends. You have like really close, intimate, platonic relationships with people. Then you have your intimate relationships with people, and so I explore that whole realm and the different types of partnerships, and that's something that comes from my own desire to have those types of relationships. I'm a very kind of introverted person and it's hard for me to build those things. Writing has been a way for me to explore what that would be like and how I envision those relationships to be.

Speaker 1:

I like. So you mentioned that you didn't actually. Actually, I want to back up because you said you identify as trans mask non-binary. What exactly did that mean?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I love and hate this question at the same time. So this is this is my own definition of it but but non-binary. I don't identify as female or male, but I trend towards masculine. I have I prefer to be seen as more male than female physically, if that makes sense yeah.

Speaker 1:

Do you feel more internally that you have more masculine or more tradition? What are considered more traditionally masculine traits?

Speaker 2:

yeah, absolutely. But I also I'm very adamant about it's like a catch-22. Like I want to be seen as male, but I don't want to be seen as a man, so like I have a little torn there because there's a lot of I don't see myself as a man, but I have masculine energy. Just make sure we put it yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you also. So, yeah, I agree, we all have masculine and feminine energy internally and that can get displayed in our interactions with our partners, our interactions with the world, but some people don't. That happens in varying degrees. That can happen based on who you're interacting with. You may have more feminine, express yourself more in a more feminine way, depending on who you're interacting with, for various reasons, and sometimes those things are separate from our gender identity or our gender expression.

Speaker 2:

But sometimes people like for those things to coincide or to be or how I feel internally be represented externally yes, I, oh sorry I was gonna say I really appreciate that you mentioned that energy can shift depending on who you're communicating with and interacting with, because that's something I've noticed about myself and I'm always like, oh my gosh, does that mean I'm not like authentic, does that mean I'm not really transmasc? And so I've had a lot of internal struggle trying to understand interaction and the energy that I put out. But yeah, I don't know. That just makes me feel great that you mentioned that, because I'm like okay, yeah, it is okay to put out different energy based on who you're interacting with.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. I think that you being your most authentic self, if you are able to, either consciously or subconsciously, tap into that or to allow that to be expressed, based on what that person is bringing out in you, because there's a I suppose it's always a balance. There's yin and yang, right? So if you are interacting with someone who is more feminine, maybe that brings out more femininity in you, and so you, you tap into the quote-unquote girliness a little bit more.

Speaker 1:

It could bring out the opposite in you, and it could have a lot to do with the person, but also a lot to do with where you are in life and what recently has happened to you or what you recently experienced, to make you say, oh, I want to show up in this situation in a little more masculine way. Or I'm feeling very I don't even know the word besides feminine, but I can think of it right now but I'm feeling very and I hate to use other words because I don't want to say emotional or in tune with my emotions, because that is not necessarily uniquely feminine, although women, people who are more feminine, tend to display those emotions in a more, in a less aggressive way than who consider themselves more masculine. But yeah, it's to the point that I feel like people are their most authentic selves when they're able to be more fluid in how they express themselves. They start in the person I love that.

Speaker 2:

yeah, that's a great way to to see that interaction.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, that's the beauty of the queer community, right, you're able to express yourself, and that's the beauty of having a podcast that don't judge. So be yourself, be your true, authentic self. So I'm a person surrounding. It's like a step back as well. Where you met you, you identified as trans, mass, non-binary and you said growing up in Nebraska, where it's a very rural state and people, most people, probably have no idea what you're talking about. How did you navigate that, especially with family and friends? When you talk about those things, what's your perception, reflection?

Speaker 2:

It was interesting. I first came out as bi when I was in high school and that didn't go well. My mother and sister I don't really remember how my father reacted, which could mean who knows what that means, but my mom and sister had kids reacted very poorly, and especially my older sister, which is interesting in and of itself. But I also don't remember how my brothers reacted. I don't think they really cared, they were probably like whatever. But and then I got this journey where, when I got into college, I was still saying I was bisexual, but I was also leaning more towards being pansexual or gender fluid as well.

Speaker 2:

But it took me until my 20s, when I was and I excluded my parents and family from all of this. I was just like. I think it's going to be easier if they just think I'm like bi or don't know anything. Don't know anything. But when I decided, when I was, finally I had this breakthrough moment in therapy and I was like I'm in the wrong body. I've always been in the wrong body and the reason I'm so sad all the time, even into my 30s, is because I'm not who I'm supposed to be and that helped me make the decision to get top surgery, so essentially like a double mastectomy, and I was like I have to tell my mom that I'm having surgery, just in case something happens to me.

Speaker 2:

It was more of a if I suddenly pass away from surgery or something. I would like for her to know that I was having surgery. I had to have a conversation with her about it and I didn't tell her that I was trans. I was just, yeah, I'm just having a breast reduction and went that way and it's taken some time. But I'm two and a half years, I think, into my transition and being on testosterone and moving forward with everything.

Speaker 2:

And she is trying. She's trying to use my preferred name. She's trying to get on board with it. I think she still has a hard time wrapping her brain around it, but there is obvious effort there of her trying and that's really all I can hope for, kind of, at this point. And my grandma who's 80, is totally on board. And I was just like yes, grandma, thank you, you go granny. Yeah, I was like, thank you so much. She's like which name do you want me to use? Do you want me? She's like which name do you want me to use? Do you want me to call you a? Do you want me to call you arden? Like just let me know.

Speaker 1:

And I was just like yes, thank you, that's wonderful we actually heard this several times that grandparents have been much more accepting, and I don't know if it's an age thing where people are just like fuck it, do whatever you want to do we don don't care anymore. Or what the situation is. But yeah, we have heard this a couple of times.

Speaker 3:

So what's the support like in Nebraska? Because I've never been to Nebraska. What's it getting into? Do you have a community there? I?

Speaker 2:

assume there is community. In some places in Nebraska Maybe the bigger places like Lincoln and Omaha there's probably community. I avoid Nebraska at all costs. I haven't been home in quite a while. I have a lot of probably. Some of it is probably just me being very scared because of like.

Speaker 2:

When I was a kid I there was one person in our high school that was out and people would throw rocks at him. It was like not a safe space any way, shape or form, especially if you were a gay man. It was very. It was a little, because there's like that perception of like bi women. Everyone's like oh yeah, you're making out with everybody, ooh, and so it's a little more acceptable. But it was not a safe space and any means to be anything other than the norm. And I'm very cautious when I do go home. I think the last time I was home was maybe four years ago and it was uncomfortable. It's such a small town like everybody knows everybody's business, and then you have someone walking around town. That's different and it's yeah, it's just uncomfortable. There's not a community in the town that I grew up in. I can definitely say that. Where are you now? I live in Durham, north Carolina.

Speaker 3:

Okay when you got there, because I hear Durham has a pretty big LGBTQ plus community. When you got there first, how did you feel?

Speaker 2:

I specifically moved here for the community because I was living in a smaller town that is a little bit south of here and it got to the point where I was like I gotta go. It's been good for a couple of years but I need community, I need to find my people. So I moved to Durham and I haven't been here that long. So I'm still like trying to tap into the community, but like I've joined like a queer sports team and like trying to get out there and meet new people, which is a little hard for me anyways, just because I am a little introverted. But so far everyone I've met has been insanely welcoming and just fantastic. So it's leaps and bounds ahead of where I have lived in the past.

Speaker 3:

That's amazing.

Speaker 1:

So I want to go back. You have three brothers and one sister. Yes, okay in. So I want to go back. You have three brothers and one sister. Uh, yes, okay. So why? What do you think it was? Have you had this conversation with your mom and your sister about what was at this point? It was just about you being bisexual, and not even your gender identity. So do you have any idea what was difficult about that for them?

Speaker 2:

I have no idea. The thing that sticks out to me, the thing I remember the most about that day, was my sister's reaction, Because she said and it's so stupid. She said I hope you don't hit on me what. And I was like you're my sister so not gonna happen, so there was.

Speaker 1:

It was just a really weird reaction, yeah were you worried that, your brother, they're gonna hit on you. But why would you even?

Speaker 2:

I don't know yeah wouldn't even come from and I remember just sitting across the table for her and just being like what the fuck? That makes no sense at all and just being like you're my sister and you're also not my type, so don't worry about it like the overwhelming.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was just like what is happening and I've had conversations with my mom where for her it's a lot of she just doesn't understand is what she says like she just doesn't understand and then in her mind, a lot of trans people specifically do it for the attention. Oh, they're just trying to get attention. It's all about attention. They just want to rub it in people's faces and have it be attention. And that's comments that she made before she knew that I was trans and I hang on to those because I was like this is what you said to me when you didn't know that I was trans.

Speaker 2:

So, do you think I'm doing that for attention? But I will say that I am not brave enough to have those conversations with my mother, yeah, and I'm just don't know how much energy I want to extend on it, especially anything with like politics, yeah, and like gender stuff. I'm just like I'm just gonna let that be and if one day I'm feeling real angsty and I got a lot of energy, I might start a conversation, but it's a lot yeah, it's not.

Speaker 3:

All I say is it's not for people to understand it, for people to respect other people, for people to understand and for people to respect other people's new, other people's lifestyle. Everyone is different. Because you're expecting me to understand your straight lifestyle. We want to have children, want to be, not only have a straight lifestyle, but want to be, sometimes even if you stay in an abusive relationship. Sometimes you're in a relationship with people that you know you don't even love, but you expect people to accept it or being even like even some of these pastors or something. They're having extramarital affairs, but it's all. And for you to understand is for you to respect that not everyone has the same, not everyone has the same lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's. I'm going to use my younger sibling as another example, because my youngest brother is in a relationship where they have a very unique type of relationship, him and his partner and my mom doesn't get it and therefore it's wrong because it's not within the norm. Like they have a very like loving, platonic relationship. There's not a lot of like physicality between them and that works really well for them, but it's not what a man and a woman should be doing, like they should have a physical relationship and that's the normal, and so it doesn't make sense. I think if it's anything outside of the quote unquote normal, it blows my mom's mind and she's just like I don't get it.

Speaker 1:

It should be. I'm sorry, exactly what goes on in the confines of people's bedrooms.

Speaker 1:

it's not for-'s business exactly and especially relatives, because I don't ask you what y'all are doing in the bedroom, so it's exactly be wondering about what's going on in my bedroom. All that, yeah, matter is that I'm with someone who respects me and loves me and we have a solid, healthy relationship, whatever that means for us. That's all that should matter. And it's fine to be curious about things, just to inform yourself, just because you want to know, but in judging it, that's not okay exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And I've had more conversations about my brother's relationship with my mother, trying to explain everything to her, than I have about my own identity, because I don't know, I'm like he's my younger brother, like he's in this wonderful relationship that works so well for him and I'm like just let it be, yeah, weird.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, I'm interested in your journey from being bisexual to being pansexual, what most people know what pansexual is. But, like just in case we have a new listener, somebody just a baby gay just delving into being what is pansexual pansexual.

Speaker 2:

Is that you are pansexual, is that you are interested let me know if I like define this correctly but interested in pretty much anyone, no matter the gender, or? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

so I think that's how I define it yeah, I, I wish I could remember the quote, but I used. I love schitt's creed and I think it was david's character was trying to explain to he presents as very queer, he was still in the heat's gay, but then he liked this female character and they actually did have sex. Actually she was so confused the next day and she and they were shopping I think they were going for wine with the wine, yes, and he said oh, sometimes she was using the wine as a metaphor and he said she said I assumed you only liked red wine, but now I guess maybe you like white wine. And he's all time I did it. I care what it was, I have to go back and watch it. But essentially he said it's what's inside, yeah, the taste of the wine. I don't care about the, whether it's red, white, whether it's a chardonnay or a Shiraz or whatever, what the shape of the bottle is, whatever I, just if it tastes good to me, then it just tastes good to me exactly sentiment.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, that is spot on yes, that's how I would assign pansexuals question. Did you say, did you actually feel like you were bi? You felt like you liked, and bi in a sense of I like men and women as a pretty, in a traditional sense of male and female. Did you actually feel like that? You liked both. Or did you somehow have some experience with someone who was more gender fluid and realized that you, you know, it was more than just the binary right?

Speaker 2:

oh man, another great question. I'm trying to think back to the time and I definitely, when I was identifying as bisexual, I had only the binary to reference Reference, Thank you.

Speaker 2:

I was like what word do I want to use here? And then it's funny because I was living in a place that was not queer friendly in any way, shape or form. I was in Southern Mississippi. It was like like not good and I had a lot of, but I look like how I look now. I had short hair and like piercings and tattoos and I'd go into bars and people come up to me and be like you must be an aging lesbian. They thought how I looked and I would be like this is what it takes. You got me. If we're going solely on looks, then sure, and it was just like a weird place. But that was when I was like yeah, I think I'm pansexual and I don't know if it was a person or just realizing that I didn't care if someone was trans or gender fluid or something outside of the binary. And I remember we were at this bar with my coworkers and I was just finally like I'm a bad sexual geek?

Speaker 2:

It's not. They were like cool.

Speaker 3:

Party.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's fine, no, no, no, I'm dirty. Oh, like cool already. Yeah, that's fine, no, no, I'm not going to. I've had some really bad experiences with like co-workers and people I've lived with like not taking things well and I'm always like I'm going to get to know people for two years, two or three years before I like share any type of information about myself, especially if I'm working with them. And that was about the two and a half or three year mark when I was finally like okay, guys, this is who I really am, this is what's up, and they were all like, yeah, look, we know I'm like okay, so we're all on the same page.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, I don't think there was a specific person or experience though that that influenced that. Okay, just who you are. Yeah, I think it goes back to what I was saying about having the right vocabulary. I think during that time, like as more definitions, I guess, have become more accessible and I've been able to research and learn more, I'm like, oh, this fits better, this makes more sense to me than what I was previously defining myself as or whatever. So, as time has moved on and like, more definitions have come out or become more I want to say normal, but like in the conversation, in the vocabulary, more I've been able to really, like, define myself.

Speaker 1:

Have you. It sounds like you. It's great that you have a community of friends that are open and accepting. Have you had any difficulties communicating that to intimate partners?

Speaker 2:

Yes, especially when I'm just first getting to know people, it's I'm. If it's a male partner, that can be an interesting conversation. I've had some really great conversations where it's just us talking about, okay, like, what are your preferences? These are mine, I, this is how I identify, just being open about it, and I've been lucky in that a lot of the individuals that I have had relationships with have been very open with it and, yeah, it's been interesting.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, unfortunately there are still some biases within the community. Yes, so sometimes people have a hard time. I'll say this as a whole the community may be pretty accepting, but your individual biases come in when you're actually in relation with someone, and so sometimes it's hard for people to accept or understand people who aren't strictly gay or strictly lesbian.

Speaker 1:

We don't have a preference for one specific gender type yeah understand, and it's hard for them to feel secure with that because they just they. But people like to know what to expect. And if you like a lot of different, if you just, if you're really in it for the spirit, then you could like anybody, and so I don't know who.

Speaker 2:

I'm comfortable with you being around because you might like them too, it's been an interesting experience going like out to like clubs or bars or whatever, because in the day I presented very feminine, like I had really long hair, I still had breasts, like I was very feminine. And since I've started my transition I always I feel like I'm somewhere in between, which is what I want. Like I want to be just like androgynous and, yeah, just somewhere in the middle. But where that causes issues is I think it confuses a lot of people, especially folks that don't know me. If I'm out at a club, some women might be like, oh, that's a man, and some women might be like, oh, that's a man, and some men might be like, oh, that's a woman, and so in the end nobody approaches me so you have to do a lot of the in the approaches, okay, and that's hard for me, because I'm like very timid and I'm super awkward, so I'm like, hey, hello, can we have?

Speaker 3:

your sim.

Speaker 2:

So it has led to a lot of very awkward experiences, but I'm just like this is fine, it is fine, it'll all work out. So it's definitely been really interesting since having top surgery because that was really I used to have quite big breasts and so not having those, to announce to everyone that I am female, has been wonderful, but has also been like a very interesting experience so arden your your book.

Speaker 1:

It sounds like they are mostly about this their suspense novels that happen to have characters who are queer. Is that the way you would count it, or do you actually really explore your issues in any of the novels?

Speaker 2:

Oh, another great question. I would say it's probably about 50-50, because I wanted to touch on some queer issues, like Hannah's father is very against her being a lesbian and has disowned her, and so there's some of that in the prequel, not so much in the main three books. And then in book three, james, who is our, looks like a what is that that saying? Looks like a cinnamon roll, is a cinnamon roll like he, but is he's the opposite like he looks like he could kill you, but he is a cinnamon roll like. He's like this kind of. He's gone through a lot of trauma and his spoiler alert his partner dies and he's had a lot. He was in the military and his team just owned him when they found out that he was gay, and so there's a lot of trauma there. But I just I work it into the story. Okay and yeah, like I said, I think probably like 50-50-ish. Okay and yeah, like I said, I think probably like 50-50-ish.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and so what's next for you in writing? Do you plan to stay among the same trajectory? Do you plan to delve a little bit more into sexuality and relationships, or what are you thinking?

Speaker 2:

Oh, I'm working on a queer queer, the definition could be like so long, but essentially it's a queer poly romanticy. There's a romantic fantasy with poly relationship, with ruin magic. So essentially they have to like carve ruins into their skin to wield their magic and they are fated to have someone as their partner. But what they don't know is that they can be fated to have multiple partners. So exploring that poly relationship, partnership side of things as well in that book, which I'm insanely excited to explore, so it should be a good one okay, wait.

Speaker 1:

So pansexual doesn't net doesn't mean poly. So how do you know about this? Are you also poly? Be a friend, poly I'm all about that poly lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I would say that being in a poly relationship is like a goal for me. Being a part of a polycule like, yes, I, I want that is my ideal relationship structure. Okay, because I do, I have, I have. How do I say this? I enjoy being in like platonic close relationships and occasionally intimate relationships, but I really just love to have the closeness, and so I think polycules and poly relationships are ideally suited for someone like me, where you have that like closeness but you're not solely responsible for the well-being of that other person. The well-being of that other person, emotional well-being of that other person. You're sharing the relationships. So that's how I see that.

Speaker 1:

But that sounds like friendships to me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in some ways. Yeah, it's a fine line. I would say.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, I have friends. I have multiple friends and personalities of your friends and what they're good at. You know what, what I had to, what they're good for, but essentially that is that. So I may have I. I have close and non-physical intimate relationships with these friends. We're all really good friends. We love each other and I can go to this friend for these types of conversations and this friend to go out. I know that this other friend is not going out, they'd rather come and hang and watch TV. You have different interactions with different people.

Speaker 3:

But you're not sleeping with them.

Speaker 1:

But that's what they said. They said some of those are not. Well, that's what relationships that are yeah, some, but others yes.

Speaker 2:

That's why I think like a polycule could be a good, a good match yeah, I didn't the first time I'm hearing that word, polycule yeah, I'm, I'm. It's a newer one for me, but it's, yeah, that it's uh. You have your little polycules that come together and you have your little poly family okay, all right, very interesting.

Speaker 1:

And so what attracts you to this lifestyle is is it this is what I heard? I mean it could be wrong, but is it one not having full responsibility for the well, emotional, well-being of one person entirely on you? And also, have not you not having to rely on just one person for and that support having being able to fill your cup with in multiple places, physically and emotionally?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and I think it's about finding I like to use the term your want match. So I have wants, they have wants, and so it's finding that person who meets that want that is maybe not met by someone else in the group. Let's say, partner X really enjoys hiking but none of the other individuals do I enjoy hiking, so I can be a want match for that partner. It's like what you were saying with friendships, right, like you each have a role, or like different things that you bring to the partnership.

Speaker 2:

I find that really comforting To know that like I really enjoy this probably sounds silly, but like I really enjoy holding hands. Maybe one partner does and doesn't, the rest don't. Like I know I could go to that partner and just be like, hey, can we like hold hands and like cuddle for a bit or have that Like that moment together. I know that that's they're meeting my want and I'm meeting theirs. Maybe they really love to cuddle. So it's building that kind of yeah, that group or that community, that where we're all like working together to meet each other's wants interesting, very interesting okay all right, so the next book you're gonna, or may, theories, novels, are going to delve into that there is.

Speaker 1:

So where can we find your books?

Speaker 2:

You can get them on my website, which is ardencootscom, that's A-R-D-E-N-C-O-U-T-T-S dot com, and you can also get them on Amazon. But if you're into supporting indie authors, definitely get them off my website.

Speaker 3:

Sounds good. All right, ar good, all right, arden. This was a very interesting conversation and I'm sure the listeners cannot wait to get their hands on some of your materials. Likewise myself, I have learned a lot from this conversation. So, listeners, there you have it. Arden Kootz is a transmasc, non-binary individual and a queer suspect romantic novel creator helping members of the queer community with self-discovery. Thank you, arden, for being on A Queer Understanding and we just cannot wait to get our hands on your content. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, this has been wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Thank you.