Award Winning Accessibility Specialist and Popular Podcast Host, Stephen Beard, Talks About Accessibility in Real Estate

Stephen has been a Realtor, Accessibility Specialist, and Disability Advocate in the
San Francisco/Bay Area since 2004. In 2021, Stephen launched a podcast about
Accessible Housing called Accessible Housing Matters.

The show profiles disability advocates and influencers who are passionate about
inclusion and improving housing accessibility.

In 2023, he was named the 2023 Fair Housing Champion by the California Association of Realtors.

Stephen serves on the Board of Directors of East Bay Innovations, a non-profit
dedicated to empowering people with developmental disabilities with supported
housing and employment opportunities.

He is also a member of the Alameda County Developmental Disabilities Planning and Advisory Council.

Stephen’s professional experience includes real estate sales, journalism, software
product marketing, and project management. He holds two Bachelor’s
degrees…one in Business Administration and another in Journalism. He was born
in Toronto, Canada, but has lived in the Bay Area since 2000.

When Stephen and his wife aren’t out on the town enjoying live theatre
(especially musicals), they love spending quiet time at home with their two cats,
Fred & Ginger. The cats graciously allow the couple to share their living space in
exchange for food and constant attention.phen has been a Realtor, Accessibility Specialist, and Disability Advocate in the

San Francisco/Bay Area since 2004. In 2021, Stephen launched a podcast about
Accessible Housing called Accessible Housing Matters. The
show profiles disability advocates and influencers who are passionate about
inclusion and improving housing accessibility. In 2023, he was named the 2023

Fair Housing Champion by the California Association of Realtors.
Stephen serves on the Board of Directors of East Bay Innovations, a non-profit
dedicated to empowering people with developmental disabilities with supported
housing and employment opportunities. He is also a member of the Alameda

County Developmental Disabilities Planning and Advisory Council.
Stephen’s professional experience includes real estate sales, journalism, software
product marketing, and project management. He holds two Bachelor’s
degrees…one in Business Administration and another in Journalism. He was born
in Toronto, Canada, but has lived in the Bay Area since 2000.

When Stephen and his wife aren’t out on the town enjoying live theatre
(especially musicals), they love spending quiet time at home with their two cats,
Fred & Ginger. The cats graciously allow the couple to share their living space in
exchange for food and constant attention.

Contact Stephen: https://www.beardrealtyteam.com/contactus/

Transcript

[Janet]: 0:45

Hello everyone and thank you for being with me today. Our guest is Stephen Beard. He is a realtor and an accessibility specialist in the state of California. He is also a licensed sales agent with Keller Williams, and he is the popular host of the podcast, accessible housing matters, which was created in 2021. Stephen, thank you for being with us today.

[Stephen Beard]: 1:14

Thank you so much for inviting me.

[Janet]: 1:17

Yes, I am so happy to have connected with you through our mutual friend, RJ from Wheelpad. And he said, you absolutely have to meet Stephen and have him on your podcast. And, you know, perhaps he'll invite you on his and thank you, Stephen, because you did a few weeks ago

[Stephen Beard]: 1:37

Yes.

[Janet]: 1:37

and I really enjoyed our conversation. And so I was interested in having you on because I want to learn more about. how realtors, how they navigate the issue of accessibility since they're just so steeped into this market, they're working with people of all different ages, but I imagine that your market, age 50 and over is quite sizable. So I wanted to just hear it from the experts themselves. So can you first tell us a little bit more about yourself and then we'll go right into it.

[Stephen Beard]: 2:20

Okay, so I became a realtor nearly 20 years ago, and it was my desire at that time to be a real estate agent for people with disabilities, which would include a sizable percentage of people who are older, older adults. And that's what I've been doing. And... That has included a fair bit of advocacy around housing. And that's why I started the podcast, to promote better awareness around accessible housing, aging in place, universal design principles, and trying to encourage new ways of thinking about how we live. how we live in our homes, whether they be homes for ownership or homes for rental.

[Janet]: 3:19

Okay, well great. I think that's super important. So I wanted to start with asking you, can you explain the importance of accessibility in real estate, especially for those who are differently abled?

[Stephen Beard]: 3:36

I don't think we can really ever, we're not able to really do justice to how big a deal this is. Although some statistics say that about one in five people self-identify as disabled, needing some sort of access, any one of us could become someone who identifies as a person with a disability at any time. Nobody is immune from accidents or from illness cause them to become differently abled. And so it's incredibly important. And sadly, the level of expertise around how to assess property for its use by a person who either identifies or doesn't identify, but does have access needs is poor. And... I can count on the fingers of one hand how many real estate agents I've met who are focusing their efforts in this area like I have done. There are lots of real estate agents who have some experience working with what they call seniors, for lack of a better word. And there are designations associated with that. But The vast, vast majority of agents are not as educated as I would like to see them be and the industry as a whole, not as cognizant, not as aware of the importance of this as I would like to see. So that's why, that's what my passion is and that's what I'm working on all the time. It's hugely important. We really want people to be able to live safely in their homes. whether they're buying something new, whether they're going into a rental apartment, or they're trying to adjust, change circumstances and age and place. Whatever it is, we want people to be able to live safely and independently in their spaces.

[Janet]: 5:47

I couldn't agree with you more. And I would imagine that when a realtor comes into contact with a client who has greater needs than the average person in terms of accessibility in the home, that if they're not knowledgeable about how to help that client, that it must get very uncomfortable.

[Stephen Beard]: 6:10

I think that agents presume knowledge and make assumptions that can create problems down the line. Education is so important. And I think that's why we're seeing more agents attending classes on how to serve clients who are differently able than the norm, the standard, the average, whatever. But yeah, I mean, although an average agent would look at someone in a wheelchair and be concerned about how they're getting over a threshold step, the average agent, and this is not meant to demean anybody by the way, you know, this is an education process, is not thinking about how the wheelchair needs to turn in the hallway to get into the bathroom. They're not thinking about it the same way their client is. And I would also argue that it's far more broad an issue for real estate agents than simply physical issues. It also encompasses services and supports. One of the biggest problems we have in really well built up areas is even if a person with a physical challenge finds an accessible property or a property they can modify to be accessible, the services around them are often not there. You don't have adequate curb cuts. You don't have community buildings that are adequately accessible. You don't have a holistic approach to design of our communities and of our neighborhoods that supports people of all different types of circumstances. And so it's a big problem.

[Janet]: 7:56

And you know, I'm glad you brought that up because I often talk about that when we're referring to older adults who move to senior living facilities and they do that because they think that they're finally going to have, you know, a functional place to live. It's going to be accessible. The issue then becomes that if they, if they're lucky enough to move to a building that is accessible, that's wonderful. But what about outside of the building? And so

[Stephen Beard]: 8:27

Yes.

[Janet]: 8:27

oftentimes these people are stuck in the building because it's unsafe either to go outside, like you said, because there aren't curb cuts, just the environment isn't built for someone who is on foot or someone who's using a mobility device or there aren't any places to go. There aren't any restaurants, there aren't any stores. So around you, there isn't a... there isn't a village per se that you can spend time in.

[Stephen Beard]: 8:58

Right. And community is so important to healthy and safe living. And we talk about people wanting to people live safely in their homes. That includes having a network. It includes having a community of people you can turn to if you're traveling or you're going to be away, you know, for whatever reason to support you. And, you know, this is why I'm a big fan of visitability. Some of your listeners may be aware of the term, you know, and it's so sad to me that we don't. build all new subdivisions and all new homes to be at least visitable, if not fully universally designed, at least visitable. And what we mean by this is a path of travel on the main level from the street for a person using a mobility device to get to a bathroom and a bedroom. And we just don't we don't design our communities that way.

[Janet]: 9:50

Sorry.

[Stephen Beard]: 9:50

And it's So you can buy, maybe you buy that, maybe the developer builds a four models, right? He's doing tracked housing or she, they're doing tracked housing and they build 300 homes and they have five or six models and one model is designed for the senior market, right? The aging market and it's lovely and adequately universally designed or at least 70 or 80% of the way there because most of them don't do it right.

[Janet]: 10:16

Right.

[Stephen Beard]: 10:17

And then you can't go visit your next door neighbors. because they don't have any accessibility at their homes right beside you. And this is somehow okay. And it's like,

[Janet]: 10:28

You're right, you're right. So let's talk about that. What are some of the most common challenges that differently abled individuals face when searching for a home? And how does your business help clients address these challenges?

[Stephen Beard]: 10:45

Well, first and foremost, I'm in California in the Bay Area, which is one of the highest priced markets in the country. So it comes right down to affordability. So that's the number one thing. And I think this is true in most major real estate markets is affordability. So people can't afford to buy homes in many of these markets with a reasonably modest income of 100K, 100, 150K, and they can't afford to buy a house. I mean, it's kind of obscene in a way. But apart from affordability, from an accessibility point of view, many communities, including the one where I sell, is 95% of the housing stock is older homes. Homes that are not, and it's not like they're building new homes that meet modern building code or even some accessibility standard. All of the homes that I'm selling are older, almost all of them. And so... We need a buyer who can afford to modify the home to meet their needs in many cases, because finding a home that is already adequately accessible for a certain percentage of people with physical mobility issues is like one in 50, one in 75 houses has something. And even then, I learned a long time ago that accessibility needs are very unique to the individual.

[Janet]: 12:08

Yes.

[Stephen Beard]: 12:08

So what is working for one person in a bathroom or a kitchen is may not work for another person. One of the biases, one of the unconscious biases we see out there is that people look at someone in a wheelchair and they, there are two people in a wheelchair and they think they're both the same disability in terms they can't walk, right? Or they can't walk right now, right? This idea that, and yet the way those two individuals might use their spaces might be dramatically different. Early on in my career, I thought that people who used mobility aids like wheelchairs would want hard surface flooring. But I met a client, I got a client, this is early when I was still learning this business, and she said to me, you know, Stephen, I want a carpet because I scoot down from the chair and I want to be able to move around on the carpet on my butt, on a soft carpet. I don't want a cold hard surface. That's what she said. So that was just a simple example of how we should not make assumptions about people just because of the type of mobility aid they are using.

[Janet]: 13:16

Yeah, very, very good point. And when you say that most of the homes in the Bay Area are older homes, what year were they built?

[Stephen Beard]: 13:26

Well, you see the typical construction here is anywhere from the early part of the 20th century, like 1900, 1910, all the way up to the 60s and 70s. I would point out that there's a lot of newer condo construction in our built-up urban area here that was built after 1990, the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the tightening of building codes and fair housing laws. So. Condos and Multi-unit rental buildings built more recently Do have do meet a minimum standard

[Janet]: 14:03

Okay.

[Stephen Beard]: 14:03

And so there is There is better accessibility there, but if i'm showing a house or if i'm previewing a house for somebody I'm going to be thinking not just about The physical access for that person based on their circumstances, but also where how it sits in the community what is parking and vehicle, vehicular access like. And, you know, trying to figure out does the buyer have a budget? First of all, are changes feasible and amenable and how would we do it and what kind of cost would it look like? And does the buyer have the money to do it beyond their down payment? Because as I said, the vast majority of homes I'm looking at for my clients are not accessible, or at least not built with accessibility needs in mind.

[Janet]: 14:50

So you know that there is going to have to be an additional investment made by the buyer to

[Stephen Beard]: 14:58

Yes, in most

[Janet]: 14:58

make

[Stephen Beard]: 14:58

cases.

[Janet]: 14:59

them.

[Stephen Beard]: 14:59

Yeah, in most cases, even for the modern condominiums where you have the big wide hallways and you have the big bathroom footprint and you have the zero threshold path of travel, some clients need the bathroom to be reconfigured for

[Janet]: 15:13

Yeah.

[Stephen Beard]: 15:13

whatever their need is, right? And some of these, even if you do that, how are they going to use, for example, a wheelchair accessible van? Some wheelchair accessible vans are bad. rear loading and unloading, others are side loading. But many, most of the time, the parking spot assigned to a unit owner in a condo is too narrow. And you can't offload in your own parking spot, you know, and if you use the blue spot, that's the blue disabled parking spot. Those typically aren't wider. There's only a few of them that are wider enough for vans. Many of them are not wide enough for vans, even if they have one that is van accessible. And the other problem is, There's no exclusivity on those spots. Anyone who has a placard can use, and this is true in most jurisdictions I've visited around the country, it's not just a California thing. So we're always researching that. Like one of the things that we do that other agents don't do is that sort of thinking. Other agents, many agents don't have that perspective. They haven't encountered it. It hasn't been their client

[Janet]: 16:19

Right.

[Stephen Beard]: 16:20

pool that where they even think about van access. And it's not just in the parking area. It's also at the front of the building and at other access points because many of our clients are not car vehicle owners. And they require third-party transportation services. So how are they going to get to the third-party transportation service vehicle and offload and unload into it? So these are just some of the things we think about, right?

[Janet]: 16:49

Yeah, well that's a great point because even I had never thought about that. How someone that lives in a condominium, that their handicap space isn't necessarily theirs. And then if you have a van or you have to have transportation, which of course like you said, is very common in people with disabilities, is that then, you know, how does a van fit into that whole space? You're right. That's a great point, especially most buildings. I mean, unfortunately, I just had a car accident a few weeks ago where I was in downtown Atlanta and the parking lot, you know, was underground, the underneath the building. And so it's very small spaces full of columns and I drive a small compact car and I still hit the column with my car.

[Stephen Beard]: 17:47

I hope you weren't injured or

[Janet]: 17:49

I

[Stephen Beard]: 17:49

hurt

[Janet]: 17:49

wasn't,

[Stephen Beard]: 17:49

or anything.

[Janet]: 17:49

no, I wasn't injured, but it was like$3,000 to fix the door.

[Stephen Beard]: 17:55

Well, that's a whole other conversation.

[Janet]: 17:56

Yeah. And, you know, I just, I thought, I am so glad that I drive a small car. I can't imagine people that drive SUVs and try to park in these tiny spaces. And that's the norm when you go to a public parking lot. Yeah. Well, okay, enough about that. So with the growing population of people aged 65 and older, how do you see the demand for accessible housing evolving in the coming years?

[Stephen Beard]: 18:28

So, you know, I haven't done any research on this. So what I'm gonna share is more anecdotal than anything else. But, you know, you mentioned my podcast and I've had the opportunity to speak with professionals, architects, occupational therapists, interior designers, and other experts in this area all through my podcast interviews. And there are very smart people who are in this space, whether it be in the development side or in the service side. But what we are observing happening from this anecdotal evidence is more and better attention to this than ever before. And so I'm optimistic that in the next 20 to 30 years, we will see continued pressure on industry to make more accessible spaces beyond commercial and industrial spaces. So one of the biggest misconceptions about the Americans with Disabilities Act, which passed in 1990, was that it involved residential property as well, but it doesn't. It's strictly, 99% of it is about commercial, industrial government spaces. That's why you see ramps in all major buildings now and you see renovations done to government. buildings as well and accessibility bathrooms everywhere. That's all the ADA. What the ADA did not deal with was residential housing, except in a tiny little secure way, which a tiny little obscure, I mean to say obscure way. And what it is Janet, just for your listeners, bemusement is that if a big developer wants to use federal funding for their big development project, that's the string that's tied to getting that federal money is that the building must meet certain accessibility standards. And what are they? Zero thresholds, wide hallways, big kitchen and big bathroom footprints. And that's about it. But the, and I'm not an expert on the ADA, but that's more or less what it is. And what tends to happen is some jurisdictions like California overlay building code. and fair housing law and other legislation to promote a higher standard in residential construction, especially multi-unit residential construction. And that also has had a role. But I think it's getting better from what the people I'm talking with is that I speak with say, is that it is getting better. And so I'm optimistic that continued education of in my little corner among real estate, in the real estate industry, real estate salespeople in resale where I live, and in the broader community around developmental practices for building residences, it gives me some hope.

[Janet]: 21:39

Okay, well wonderful. What about when it comes to finances? Can you shed some light on special financing options available for people looking to modify their home? And if you do have them, how do they differ from traditional financing?

[Stephen Beard]: 21:58

All right, so what I wanted to share with your listeners is, first of all, I'm not an expert on this at the national level at all. I can really only speak about California, where I'm licensed to sell real estate and I'm not a lender or a financier. When I started, we actually in California had a disability first mortgage that the state financed at three percent, is a very favorable rate, but it went away in 2007 or 2008 and has never come back. And that allowed a first time home buyer who had a doctor's letter saying they had a disability to qualify for a really favorable interest rate mortgage. I've never seen it since in my state. Now such equivalence may exist elsewhere. So that helps as a monthly payment component. Another thing that helps buyers is down payment assistance. And although My state doesn't have any disability related down payment assistance programs that I am aware of at the state level. There are localized incentives in some cities and at some levels for down payment support. And I'm sure this exists in other parts of the country too, where you can access down payment assistance. that has a tie into having an identified disabling circumstance. So that is the second way that we see these things manifest. There are also, I have seen in my state, in my area, in fact, some cities that want to promote affordable housing will have below market rate rentals and below market rate properties to buy. And those below market rate properties to buy often are needs are they're often sold Based on a lottery for which you can earn points to get a higher position in the lottery Based on certain criteria. So some of the cities that have these programs say okay You get more points if you are a disabled person towards qualifying to get this rental or get this This property that we're selling that is a below market rate property. That's pretty weedy, right? We're really deep in the weeds in terms of support at that point. But

[Janet]: 24:31

Yeah, and

[Stephen Beard]: 24:32

that's

[Janet]: 24:32

I also

[Stephen Beard]: 24:32

the other

[Janet]: 24:32

wonder,

[Stephen Beard]: 24:32

way I see it. Yeah.

[Janet]: 24:34

I'm sorry, I also wonder how long does that process take? Because, I mean, is it something, are you talking about months, are you talking about two years?

[Stephen Beard]: 24:43

No, I mean, if the financing option is there, it can usually be tied into regular financing. So a time isn't usually, so the issue is availability of property, not the financing per se. So yeah, there are very few and far between below market rate properties to begin with. And there are emails and there are waiting lists and people sign up. So it can take years to find one and win the lottery. Yeah, absolutely. The financing piece becomes the easier piece. And you know, it's so funny below market rate here is like 400,000,

[Janet]: 25:18

Great.

[Stephen Beard]: 25:18

which is going to shock some of your listeners who may be accompanied to lower house prices than what we see

[Janet]: 25:25

Yeah,

[Stephen Beard]: 25:25

in

[Janet]: 25:25

because

[Stephen Beard]: 25:25

my

[Janet]: 25:25

isn't

[Stephen Beard]: 25:25

area.

[Janet]: 25:26

that about $400,000 is the average price of a home in the United States? Am I correct?

[Stephen Beard]: 25:32

Yeah, it may be. I haven't looked at the stats on that recently. I know that where I sell here in the East Bay of the Bay Area, it's very hard to find a good condition home in a safe neighborhood for under half a million now.

[Janet]: 25:48

Yeah.

[Stephen Beard]: 25:49

And any kind of neighborhood that has the best services and the best quality is upwards of a million dollars for, you know, we're not talking about big houses here, two-bedroom, one-bathroom houses,

[Janet]: 25:59

Mm-hmm.

[Stephen Beard]: 25:59

right? The condo market is a little more reasonable, but even the entry level for condos here is at the very, very entry level is about 300 now in my little corner of the East Bay. And of course, in California, I mean, I can only speak about my market, but as you get further away from the San Francisco city, the prices tend to go down. So every market is different. And, you know, I wouldn't want to presume to speak about prices elsewhere, but just by rate of a contrast in some parts of the country, 300000 buys you a lot more. than a

[Janet]: 26:30

Right,

[Stephen Beard]: 26:30

studio condo.

[Janet]: 26:32

right, yeah. So let's talk about home modifications. So for homeowners looking to make these properties more accessible, what are some of the most effective and essential modifications? that they should consider from your perspective. And I know that people with disabilities have, like you said earlier, very unique needs, but what do you think when it comes to educating people that may not know what they need, what do you tell them as an accessibility

[Stephen Beard]: 27:04

So.

[Janet]: 27:05

specialist?

[Stephen Beard]: 27:07

So again, one of the things that me and my team do is we do a full needs assessment for our buyers to evaluate their circumstances, not just their financial circumstances, not what they want in terms of how many bedrooms, bathrooms and that stuff, but also a sort of a disability profile, a profile of their physical and non-physical accessibility needs, if you will. And so that really guides us. When we get away from that, when we get away from this idea of what, you know, a specific client interview looking more generally, if we're just talking about universal design, we want zero path of travel from the street or from wherever the person is getting off of a vehicle or off of any other type of transport into the home and ideally in the whole lot. You know, why should someone? who has an access need only be able to go into four rooms out of five, and can't use a backyard, for example, because there's no, say, it's too overgrown with vegetation, there's no path of travel, right? So we really want to look at generalized paths of travel for full use of the property the person is thinking about buying. And a threshold is a threshold is a threshold. And this is where it gets very specific to the individual. I've had clients where a half an inch to an inch is too much for their power chair. And then I've had other clients who are paraplegic, for example, and have tremendous upper body strength. And they just, you know, they whip up to full steps, no problem with their, they're able, I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but they have the ability to swing around a little bit. And that gives them more ability to handle modest thresholds. So again, it's very user specific. So that's one thing. The other thing is the bathroom footprint. And how does it look? It's way more than grab bars, right? It's also about, another thing I want your listeners to be thinking about in this context is care providers. If the person, whether they be a senior or a younger person who has access needs, gets help from somebody else, either a care provider or a... family member who is a care provider, then how does that person going to interact with the fire or the person who's gonna live in this property, in the kitchen, in the bathroom, from room to room, et cetera, et cetera. So we really wanna think about that as well.

[Janet]: 29:47

And I would add people should also think about storage, especially if you have a condition that requires, the use of medical equipment or supplies. How are you gonna store all of that so that it's not on the floor and then creating an additional fall hazard?

[Stephen Beard]: 30:06

Absolutely,

[Janet]: 30:07

Yeah.

[Stephen Beard]: 30:08

absolutely. And people don't.

[Janet]: 30:11

No.

[Stephen Beard]: 30:11

People don't think about that, but it's huge.

[Janet]: 30:14

Yeah. So where do you see the future of accessible real estate heading, especially with technological advancements and smart home integrations?

[Stephen Beard]: 30:26

I'm thrilled about smart home technology. It is adding so much more independence and safety for people living in wherever they're living. And so the future I think is really bright. I think we can really use smart home technology, not just so that someone can tell an auto, a smart speaker to turn on the lights or close the window shades or whatever it is we're gonna ask them, ask it to do. but also for instant access. One of the people I interviewed on my show about a year, year and a half ago has a call center type system where somebody working with a nonprofit agency that provides in-home supports, they also offer a call center technology where the person, if the person isn't there, a live body isn't there, they can reach out through their iPad or through their phone to talk to somebody live. because their home is automated and they can monitor things. They can monitor that the lights got turned on in the morning. They can monitor that the stove wasn't left on. All these types of things, they can be really game changer for giving people the confidence to live independently who might not have felt that they could. And I would add with this, so many people with cognitive deficits as they get older. family members being able to interact that way through technology to do these very same things is incredibly important. So I'm pretty excited about that. And I there's been a real push among architects that I talk with towards universal design standards in building. And I think that you know here in California there's a push for a universal design standard through a non-profit in San Francisco. It's teamed up with some local architects. And that universal design center, I'm wishing that in five years, it will be as important as the environmental architecture standard. You may have heard of LEEDS, which is the environmental standard in architecture. So why wouldn't we have a standard around universal design as well? So I'm excited about that. One of the things that I do want to mention, if I may Janet, is that we must be thinking more about are aging care providers. One of the things that has been an echo, a theme in my interviews I've done on my podcast over the past two years is a looming crisis where people who are need access because of cognitive or physical challenges are have been getting this support in their home regardless of the whether the home was adequate or not, you know, which we talked But whether or not it is, the people are being cared for by family members and some people that I interact with and people I've interviewed on my show point out that. The care providers themselves are aging out of place to take care of their disabled family members. And they don't have any, they've been no plans. There's been no thinking about what do you do when mom and dad can't take care of their 30, 40, 50 year old family member who needs support. What happens then? And there have been some papers written about this, about how it's a real crisis, housing crisis. It's basically a really big problem. And I would want to draw attention to that. We wanna think about that.

[Janet]: 34:04

Yeah, that's something I bring up a lot that our caregivers are also aging. And so that's why technology is going to be so important in the future because we're not going to have available. caregivers, whether they're paid or unpaid. If you look at the next generation, so right now we have 10,000 baby boomers turning 65 every day, and that will continue to happen until the year 2030. But the reality is that after the baby boomers, then you have the generation X, which is. already aging. So we are, you know, between the ages of I think, 41 and 54. Right? So I belong to Generation X because I'm 45. So in by 2030, then I'll be 51. Hopefully, I can still provide caregiving services to my parents. But you can see how everyone is aging. And then we have fewer younger people because the reality is that people are not having as many children. Sometimes they have no children at all. Then you also have changing migration patterns, and then you have laws that are changing around immigration, which are restricting immigrants from coming into the country, which The reality is that immigrants are the majority of the people that are working as paid caregivers. If you talk to people who own unskilled home care services, they rely on immigrants to fill their job positions. So it's a very complex problem.

[Stephen Beard]: 36:00

Yeah,

[Janet]: 36:00

And...

[Stephen Beard]: 36:00

and it's, I would argue there's a sociological aspect too, because American society has not fostered, this is my opinion, I have no expertise in this area, but I don't think we've fostered as a society, the importance of family at a very general sense as, as we might have done. And the sense of family is, is I think weaker now than it was a hundred years ago. This is my opinion. So that. the kids move away from home and they don't have the strong bond with the parents in some cases that in another era, you know, the grandparents lived at home, you know, the grandparents lived with the parents who lived with the kids. It was a different time, right? A hundred years ago. And so the family supports were arguably, you know, it was just so I think

[Janet]: 36:49

Well,

[Stephen Beard]: 36:49

there's

[Janet]: 36:49

you're

[Stephen Beard]: 36:50

a

[Janet]: 36:50

right.

[Stephen Beard]: 36:50

sociological, I think

[Janet]: 36:51

You're

[Stephen Beard]: 36:51

there's

[Janet]: 36:51

right.

[Stephen Beard]: 36:51

a sociological thing

[Janet]: 36:52

Have you heard

[Stephen Beard]: 36:53

that's

[Janet]: 36:53

of the

[Stephen Beard]: 36:53

happened.

[Janet]: 36:53

show Live to 100 on Netflix? Oh

[Stephen Beard]: 36:56

No.

[Janet]: 36:56

my God, it's a great show. You should watch it. And it's

[Stephen Beard]: 36:58

Thank

[Janet]: 36:58

this

[Stephen Beard]: 36:59

you.

[Janet]: 37:00

person, he's not a scientist, but he does all this research and he goes to what are considered blue zones all over the world. And blue zones are places where you have the most centenarians living in these communities. And so he does research on that specific community and highlights the factors. What are these people doing differently that is enabling people to live to 100 or past 100? And that is one theme that is recurrent in all of these blue zones, is that family is very important. And so that older person may not live with another family member, but family and friends are always supporting that person, either bringing food, offering caregiving services, offering home maintenance. People don't realize how important home maintenance is. If you're at a risk for falls, you should not be vacuuming and you should not be bending down and cleaning your toilet. That's only going to put you at risk. But for people that live alone, especially, they don't want their house to just like, be completely abandoned and it's embarrassing, right? You don't wanna have people come over and for people to smell things. So what do they do? They put themselves at risk for a fall by vacuuming, cleaning the toilet, doing things that they shouldn't be doing.

[Stephen Beard]: 38:30

Can I add one more point to this?

[Janet]: 38:31

Yes.

[Stephen Beard]: 38:31

This is really interesting. We also, our society, I don't wanna blame society, but we have an awful lot of ego tied up in our self image. And this sense of wanting to, I'll just do it myself, to the

[Janet]: 38:47

Mm-hmm.

[Stephen Beard]: 38:48

point where it becomes

[Janet]: 38:48

Yeah.

[Stephen Beard]: 38:48

unhealthy is very, very strong. And I experienced it myself as I have less mobility now than I did 20 years ago, right? And so supporting people so that they don't have any body shame, for lack of a better word, associated with aging and changing physical capacity and cognitive capacity is

[Janet]: 39:14

Mm-hmm.

[Stephen Beard]: 39:14

important.

[Janet]: 39:15

Yeah.

[Stephen Beard]: 39:15

We want to be loving and supportive and not exacerbate people's sense of inadequacy.

[Janet]: 39:24

Yeah, you're right. You know, it's like, you know, these, the person that cannot maintain their home, they offer value in different ways. And then I in turn can offer value by helping them maintain their home. So it's about helping each other.

[Stephen Beard]: 39:42

Yes.

[Janet]: 39:42

So tell me, what is your advice for realtors? What advice would you give other realtors who want to better serve differently-abled clients and the aging population?

[Stephen Beard]: 39:57

Thank you for that question, Janet. I think it's so important that real estate agents check their judgment at the door and ask questions. There's nothing wrong with asking honest, sincere questions. It's not intrusive to say to somebody, how do you like to use SpaceX or space? How do you like to use your kitchen? How do you like to use your bathroom? How do you do? do you do this by yourself or do you have someone who helps you? I don't think, and not enough agents want to ask those questions, number one, because some don't even think about it, and then number two, because they feel that it's too intrusive. But I think it's completely appropriate if you're helping someone to buy a home and you're helping them to evaluate the homes in the markets where you sell homes, thinking about issues like that. So it's important to ask. And the other thing is, the other way around, Don't assume that somebody can't do something just because of your perception of how they use whatever, how they come across to you in their physical appearance, whether they're using a mobility aid or not. Don't be presumptive. Ask.

[Janet]: 41:10

I think

[Stephen Beard]: 41:10

So

[Janet]: 41:11

those are

[Stephen Beard]: 41:11

I would

[Janet]: 41:11

true.

[Stephen Beard]: 41:11

like to see realtors be a lot more curious and a lot less presumptuous.

[Janet]: 41:16

Yes, well that's a great point and I think there's going to have to be some education around how do you have these conversations because the reality is that some people may not be asking like you said because they don't know what questions to ask right but then other people they feel uncomfortable and they don't want to insult the other person or they don't even know how to navigate the issue. And so helping people feel more comfortable having these conversations. Because I can say as a healthcare professional, we talk about private affairs all day long. We have no issues with it. We have no issues with touching people, approaching people, you know, getting real close. So in fact, we have to check ourselves in the other direction that we are not moving in on people because we tend to do that. You know,

[Stephen Beard]: 42:15

Mm-hmm.

[Janet]: 42:15

we're like, OK, I'm going to touch you here because for me to touch someone and get really close to someone, I have no issues with that. So.

[Stephen Beard]: 42:25

Yeah.

[Janet]: 42:28

But how do people get in touch with you, Sue? And how do they learn more about?

[Stephen Beard]: 42:33

So

[Janet]: 42:34

what you do.

[Stephen Beard]: 42:34

if you, first of all, you can Google me. My name is Stephen Beard Realtor. I am based in the California, in the Bay area. I have a podcast that you mentioned before where I interview people like you, Janet, about accessibility and housing. Cause I felt that there was a lot of podcast noise about affordability, but we weren't talking enough about accessibility. So I've had a lot of great, great interviews with people and those are, you can access me by searching for the Accessible Housing Matters podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts or even on a Google search because it'll take you to my website for the podcast. So that is another way people can get ahold of me. I'd be happy to speak to anybody who has a question about access, rather realtors who wanna know how to serve their clients. I'd always be happy to. lend my expertise wherever I can.

[Janet]: 43:32

Okay, well, great. Thank you, Stephen. And can you mention briefly, I know that you won an award, I think it was 2022. Can you tell us

[Stephen Beard]: 43:40

No,

[Janet]: 43:40

a little

[Stephen Beard]: 43:40

it was

[Janet]: 43:40

bit

[Stephen Beard]: 43:40

this year.

[Janet]: 43:40

about that? It was this

[Stephen Beard]: 43:41

It was

[Janet]: 43:42

year,

[Stephen Beard]: 43:42

this

[Janet]: 43:42

okay.

[Stephen Beard]: 43:42

year. Yeah, in July, I had the immense honor of being named the California Association of Realtors Fair Housing Champion for my work. I'm educating realtors on my work on the podcast and my work serving clients over almost 20 years now. So it was a real big honor and... I'm happy about it, not because of the, you know, feather in my cap. I mean, that's nice. But what's really important is it's given me an opportunity to talk about fair housing around the issue of access. And the reason I want to make a point here is that in the last two, three years, realtor boards and realtor associations all over the United States since about 2020, 2021 have been talking about diversity, DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And for the first year or two, this was very much about black versus white. And in the last year, it's gotten better. And they're talking about all kinds of access, not access, all kinds of diversity, not just skin color. And so I think that that's great. And it's given me, and that's the sort of recognizes that fair housing is about skin color and it's also about access and it's also about gender and it's also about all these other ways that we allow our biases and judgments to discriminate against others. So it's an opportunity to educate. So I'm grateful for that.

[Janet]: 45:27

Great, thank you for telling us about that and congratulations on your award. And I look forward to having you again.

[Stephen Beard]: 45:36

Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.

[Janet]: 45:39

Okay, thank you, Susan.