Using Color to Create Functional and Beautiful Spaces: A Conversation with Sherwin Williams' Global Color Director for Color Marketing, Sue Wadden and Color Manager, Emily Kantz

In this conversation, Sue Wadden and Emily Kantz from Sherwin-Williams discuss the impact of color on health, safety and wellness.

They explain how different colors influence mood and mental health, and recommend specific colors for creating calming environments.

They also discuss Sherwin-Williams' annual color mix and color forecast, and how it reflects and influences public health and wellness trends.

Additionally, they highlight Sherwin-Williams' products that contribute to health and safety, such as odor-eliminating and air-purifying paints.

Finally, they address the company's marketing efforts to cater to the growing demographic of older adults and their specific needs for aging in place.

The conversation covers topics such as welfare, health, safety, and sustainability in the paint industry.

It also delves into the color forecasting process and the impact of color in our lives.

The guests discuss personal experiences with Sherwin-Williams colors and the possibility of a color forecast specifically for older adults.

They also explore the expansion of the conversation on color and the next phase of the paint industry as GenXers age.

Takeaways

Color has a significant impact on mood and mental health, and specific colors can create calming environments.

Sherwin-Williams' annual color mix and color forecast reflect and influence public health and wellness trends.

Sherwin-Williams offers products that contribute to health and safety, such as odor-eliminating and air-purifying paints.

The company is mindful of the growing demographic of older adults and their specific needs for aging in place. Welfare, health, safety, and sustainability are important considerations in the paint industry.

The color forecasting process involves a workshop where themes and a color of the year are determined.

Personal experiences with Sherwin-Williams colors highlight the impact of color in interior design.

There is potential for a color forecast that takes into account the changing vision of older adults.

Expanding the conversation on color and sharing knowledge is a goal for the future.
Color has a significant impact on our lives and can transform spaces.

As GenXers age, there may be a shift towards hiring professional painters for safety reasons.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Job Roles
04:06 Color and its Impact on Health and Wellness
10:28 Color Mix and Color Forecast
17:23 Influence of Color Forecast on Health and Wellness Trends
25:19 Sherwin-Williams' Products for Health and Safety
35:05 Differentiating Sherwin-Williams' Paint Products
42:08 Microbicidal and Odor-Eliminating Paints
46:00 Marketing to the Aging Population
46:57 Welfare, HSW, and Sustainability
49:15 Color Forecasting Process
51:23 Personal Experience with Sherwin-Williams Colors
52:54 Color Forecast for Older Adults
53:31 Expanding the Conversation on Color
55:15 Impact of Color in Our Lives
56:21 Next Phase: Aging GenXers and Professional Painters

Transcript

Janet Engel: 0:43

thank you for being with me today. I have two very special guests from the Sherwin Williams company I have Sue Wadden. She is the global color director, for color marketing. And I have Emily Kantz and she is the color marketing manager. Sue and Emily, thank you for being with me today. Hi, Janet. How are you? I am doing very well on this Martin Luther King Day,

Sue Wadden: 1:13

especially as we say, Home Designs for Life, right?

Janet Engel: 1:18

Sue, tell me a little bit about your job.

Sue Wadden: 1:20

director of color marketing is a cool title, and it's an equally cool job. My role is to really lead color direction for the entire organization, which we're a pretty big company. So it's an awesome job with a lot of responsibility. But it's also, as I say, like the most fun job every day is different. So I help designers with color tools and color systems and anything that they might need. We lead a lot of thought leadership. So like presentations, design trends, which we'll talk about. We do a lot of efforts with homeowners, like inspiring color palettes and tools in store, really all of those things with the goal of tackling color competence and helping our customers really feel good about color and understanding all its value for whatever their project might be.

Janet Engel: 2:07

Emily. What is your role as a color marketing manager?

Emily Kantz: 2:12

Yeah, so I'm rather new in my current role. I'm not new to Sherwin Williams. Prior to Sherwin, I was a commercial interior designer, so that kind of led me down the path to joining Sherwin Williams as a subject matter expert in kind of the commercial field, specifically in healthcare design. I have a background in evidence based design, so basing design decisions off of credible research. And then shared out by, architectural firms and designers. And so that has led me down the path to, basing color choices off of research. So we're basing a lot of color selections off of, we're going to say that this specific blue is best for this type of environment because of all the research that, the design community has put forth. And we've, been able to capture. Those resources and then share that with the public and homeowners and, and designers and really get the messaging across. And now under Sue, so it's a very exciting opportunity to help her lead the charge in color and color confidence with our customers, our homeowners, our residential designers, our commercial designers. And really continue along this just journey on, educating them and sharing out again that research based, color making decision.

Janet Engel: 3:32

I wanted to invite both of you today because I met sue back in october during the color mix event in atlanta for sharon williams and sue gave this incredibly interesting talk on health, safety and wellness. And I thought there were so many overlaps between what she talked about and how color affects the environment that we live in, how it affects our mood, our mental health our function to how we function in that environment. And there are so many parallels to. The kind of things that I talk about when it comes to aging in place and universal design and how to make spaces safer for older adults or people with different abilities, but really for everyone, because the reality is that we all want to exist in a functional environment in an environment that we enjoy when we consider how much time we spend in our homes, especially after COVID. I think that just became very real to everyone. So Sue agreed to do this podcast, which I was very thankful for. And then she brought you, Emily with your expertise. So Emily, I'm going to direct my first question to you, which is about the psychology of color. can you share your insights on how different colors influence mood and mental health? And are there specific colors that are particularly effective in creating an energizing or calming

Emily Kantz: 5:09

environment for people? Sure. So as a lot of people are aware, the color psychology is the study of how like different colors affect human mood and behavior. And a lot of times, designers and homeowners, they know that, if I want a relaxing, space, I'm gonna maybe select a blue because that's what people have heard of. They know that, blues equate to call me environments. And so that's where that the color psychology plays a role. We're talking about blues, those are, have really positive physiological and psychological responses that really are known to promote the sense of calm. In a really great for spaces that you want to just relax, decompress whether it's, a residential environment or even in a community space, just to be able to provide spaces that will have, these natural softer blue tones. And so that's great for our mental wellbeing. Of course, not everybody might be a fan of blue. I always tell people, majority of people, I feel like gravitate towards blues and greens just because they're familiar with that, right? When we get into those warmer tones, so we're talking about reds and oranges and yellows, they might have very strong opinions on very specific yellows, reds and oranges. And that's just human nature and it's really interesting part of how people perceive color or what their past experiences with particular colors have been. That's built into the kind of color psychology as well. Maybe somebody grew up in an, that's 1970s orange, retro family room. And so now they're like, no, no orange. They hate all oranges. So certainly that plays a role, obviously in what people kind of gravitate towards. I always like to use my mother in law as an example. She's currently in her mid 70s but she hates blue. And she's one of those people that she's she's not gonna feel relaxed probably in a blue environment just because that's just not her mother didn't like blue, so that kind of led her to not like blue either. But she would gravitate towards the greens, all day, every day. that's where her comfort zone is that's where she would be finding like a relaxing environment.

Sue Wadden: 7:19

am not a blue girl. I try all the time to bring it in and I just, I cannot bring it into my home. I love green, like green.

Emily Kantz: 7:26

Yeah. And, and so when we talk about like mental health, for example we really want to try to create environments that are comfortable to them and that are, relaxing and not overly stimulating. And so we try to stay away from really bright whites, try to stay away from gray tones. Sometimes those can really feel like institutional for something that might, be more on this kind of neurodiverse spectrum. And we also want to try to stay away from something that's really dark, those really dark saturated colors. That could, people that might be dealing with depression or loneliness, being in a room when the walls are really dark, it's not going to be a great place for them. And then when we're talking about our super brights, so if we're saying, something that has a lot of chroma, something that's really like a bright red or bright blue or yellow. Those aren't going to be great with people on the mental health side of things, those are too bright, too stimulating. They're not going to feel comfortable in anything and that kind of category. So when we're talking about maybe, those calming spaces, leaning towards those cooler tones are certainly a good kind of way to navigate when you're looking at the fan deck. And then I always like to incorporate, bringing in those natural tones, So you're the, everybody's. Probably heard of by Ophelia, and if they're not it's that intrinsic connection to nature. And bringing in that wood tone. If it's real, if it's fake, it doesn't matter, just as long as you're bringing it in into some capacity. If you're talking about, wood table, chairs, cabinetry, flooring, whatever you can do, because that really helps bridging that gap, to have that, connection to nature. And then I always like to say, you've got that balance of your warm and cool tones. So you've got that maybe nice, rich, warm wood tone, even if it's on the lighter side. And then you're bringing in a bluer green. It's just this beautiful kind of composition. And it just makes you feel comfortable. And in this own little personal healing sanctuary that you've created for yourself.

Janet Engel: 9:28

Yeah. And then it also gives you the ability to bring in color contrast which is very important, especially for older adults. As we age, our vision is one of the first systems that actually deteriorates and it doesn't happen too late in life. It happens at about the age of 40. So definitely by the time you're 45. You are already experiencing significant changes, myself, I'm 45 and I need to turn on the light if it's a, in a darker room so that I can actually see what I'm doing so I can see how saturated colors are really going to impact. Older people in a negative way, especially in the evening when you don't have natural light coming into a room and you have to make sure that you've built enough abundant artificial lighting in that space.

Emily Kantz: 10:27

Exactly. And also, as I, begin to get into yellow. Something that might have been acceptable in the past when you're talking about your muted neutrals. Those can get a little bit muddied over time too, so I think, just to look, into the future if you want to stay, go for something maybe a little bit cleaner so not as much gray. In that color and, also as we age, that's been shown that people gravitate towards those warmer colors because they're easier to differentiate between, so they're easier to differentiate a golden color versus a red or a cranberry. But the cooler tones, although we think it's like, those are great, they're really soothing and calming. But those colors, sometimes they get mixed up, so they can look all the same to them. So if you're thinking about wayfinding, or, there's this beautiful blue, and then the next room's a green, it might look all the same to somebody who's got that, starting has that the yellow, the eye happen. So really just keep that in mind, when you're designing or when you're selecting color, because that can really take, something that you might have selected did. Five years ago might start to look a little bit muddied. And you're like, why is that not looking the same? This nice blue that I picked out years ago. And that's why.

Sue Wadden: 11:44

Emily, do you have any favorites? I love this where you're all these, all this information, but do you have any like favorite colors that you go to all the time?

Emily Kantz: 11:53

So I do, I've got, so I always like to use this range of blues. So like quietude, I think the name says it all. It's Sherwin Williams SW6212 quietude. That's just this perfect blue green. It's in the lighter range. So it's right in here. It's just, it really works well with a lot of different, wood tones and finishes. And then I like it's there's also in this nice blue, which is Sherwin Williams. SW6227 meditative. Again, just another really just nice just really calming blue. It just works with everything. It's not overly saturated. And I don't go too far into this, when we start to get into our deep darks. I just try to stay away from that. That's, it's great if you want to use that as an accent color or accent feature into those dark, darker tones, but really trying to stay within those lighter. Kind of one, two or three when you're looking at a fan deck leaf, just because, when you're talking about getting that light level, getting that lighting into the rest of your home, you really want to make sure that you're, staying in those kind of those top two or three colors when you're looking at a fan deck, kind of light reflectance value, getting that light as much as you can into the rest of the home.

Janet Engel: 13:12

Yes. And that was a great point that you made about how the lens yellows as we age. And it literally is we have proteins in our eyes that oxidize as we age. These proteins don't replenish the way skin cells do. And literally we see the world as we get older similar through looking through a glass of ginger ale. Or you could say beer, whatever, maybe the type of beer you're drinking. But yes a yellow car may appear more Brown to the aging eye, which is like you said, in five years, your space could look totally different. And so it's, it is very important, especially if someone's working with an interior designer that they pay attention to that. And plan for them, just like you'd plan, for having a curbless shower.

Emily Kantz: 14:10

I know they do sell those glasses, too. I've always heard of them being advertised, I've never really fully dug into that you can put these glasses on and they allow you to see how, that, how people with that deterioration will look at, color or different things. So it's definitely interesting. So I'm sure interior designers would probably get frustrated like that is blue. I don't know why they're saying, just to understand, people see color differently and you just have to understand that's, it's a natural. process of aging.

Janet Engel: 14:40

And I have also heard that people are reluctant to believe that they don't see colors for what they truly are. But the reality is that these changes happen so gradually over time that you don't realize that what you're seeing is not at all what a 20 year old sees. Like I know that being 45, I know that I don't see the world the same way my son that's 11 sees the world,

Sue Wadden: 15:13

unfortunately, right?

Janet Engel: 15:18

Yeah. So what about the annual color mix and the color forecast? In what ways does the annual color mix and color forecast reflect or potentially influence public health and wellness trends?

Emily Kantz: 15:35

we took a different approach to this year's color mix forecast. And so if anybody is out there who's familiar with our color mix forecast in the past, we really dug into the drivers, the stories behind the colors and the color palettes. And last year we really took a different approach to it. We decided to really focus on key directional color families. And so we're calling it Anthology Volume 1. And it's on our website for anybody who would like to go see it. Beautiful photography if anybody wants to be inspired, styling and see the colors, and how they're applied. Again, beautiful photography. And broke it down into four different kind of color families. Blues and greens, are a little popular grouping that are, and it's a nice range too. So if you're looking for something that's a little bit brighter, a little bit bolder I have it here for so here's our blues and greens. Again, a good range. And then next was our reds and purples. What's really interesting about, we're talking about color psychology, obviously red is, can, increase heart rate and also like increase appetite. That's what it's always been used for in the past. But what's really interesting is to see where do purples fit into that story as well? Cause a lot of again, when we're talking about neurodiverse, a lot of people gravitate towards those pale purples. They're also having a moment in design trends same with kind of those darker kind of cranberry tones, but it's just interesting to call out it's always interesting to see where purples fit in within the story. Our third collection are are deep tones. So again, I mean, even if you're not going to necessarily use this, let this be an inspiration for some of your wood tones as well. You've got these beautiful browns which are really where, brown has that feeling of like reliability, it's got that grounding, it really grounds your interiors. And then finally, our delicate tints. So these are our little tinted neutrals, just, I mean, you could basically just use this almost as like your whole interior. Palette. And like I said, all of this is on the website. Again, all this beautiful photography, stunning applications. And that was a really different approach for us last year was to navigate to this, this direction of just honing in on the color families. this year we were really honing in on health, safety, and welfare. we're really talking about, how does color play a role in, into this set of guidelines to not only look beautiful in a space, but how are they actually, guiding people to foster living spaces that nurture physical, mental, and emotional well being. And so a lot of that, we've already we've mentioned the blues and the positive effects of blues and then bringing like that. The kind of like natural healing elements of green into your space and we're, we talk about biophilia again, that is a trend that's not going away in any way. And actually it's got so many, biophilia has so many healing properties in itself. So decades and decades ago Roger Ulrich did a lot of studies on biophilia and just said that. Views to nature, helped, reduce your hospital stay. It helped reduce your medications that you would need. And so bringing those kind of attributes of those biophilic elements into your home is why those blues and greens continue to be so popular. And that's why everyone went out and bought tons of plants during COVID because they wanted that greenery of the outside. They wanted it inside their homes. And so then, what's so great about our color mix forecast is that we dive into the last, like, where was that blue going and green going? And so we could see that shift of when, COVID happened and you have that explosion of blues and greens. And then what happened then when everything reopened? And you started to see this emergence of these warmer tones, which was really interesting because everybody started, going back out. Into the world and getting back to work and things like that. And so they wanted to feel that warmth of home into their, in their spaces out in public. And so you started to see, all of a sudden these deserty tones look really fresh and, have this warmth to them. And, and also I have to shift and say, biophilic elements for somebody who, like for myself in Cleveland, Ohio is going to be different than somebody and. Southern California is going to be different for somebody who's, in the southwest. And again, they're surrounded by these beautiful desert tones. And so that might be their biophilic, colors because it's regionally based. And because we're so used to our blues and greens in our area, then we started looking to see, oh, those warmer tones looked really fresh and interesting and different. And so that, that kind of had different healing properties in itself because then you're surrounding yourself with these kind of warmer, comforting colors. And that led us to our color of the year from a few years ago Reddened Point and so that's what that inspiration was from more of that side of that kind of canyon leaf clay and those kind of baked, baked colors from the Southwest. Beautiful. And so again, it's just how do these colors paired with natural elements paired with stone wood tones, into your interior environments. How do those, again, those play a role in creating. Spaces that promote, health, safety, well being like you said high contrast is great for those, environments that, again, the aging eye and things like that. And you want to make sure, if you have this beautiful Reddened Point wall that you're making sure that your handrail is a, it's a different color and also value. So you want to make sure that it's, something that somebody can easily find on the wall and grab onto. If you're looking at, bathroom design as well, you're looking at that high contrast. You want to make sure that you're, from flooring to walls that not everything's just one monochromatic look. You need that kind of different of. of value and color. So that people, we've got those that kind of shuffle their feet, so you want to just, remind them, Oh, it's a change in floor. It's a different color. It's a different value. So pick up your feet, make sure that they they know, so they don't trip on anything. So that's all just plays into again, that health and safety for aging in place. Yes,

Janet Engel: 21:57

and I want to add that's where the tools that Sherwin Williams offers customers also if you're working with an interior designer, then you'll have more. Knowledge at your disposal, but where you use the color tools in order to differentiate the value of a color, how much saturation that color has and help you make good choices.

Emily Kantz: 22:26

Exactly. And we actually have when we talk about like light reflectance value, so when we were talking about, those lighter colors, when somebody said, well, I don't know where, What does she mean by that? So when we talk about light reflectance value, we're talking about the light level. And so your, like a, your whites are gonna have your highest LRV values, so your light reflectance values, while your dark tones are gonna have, ten, I don't know, this is a six, right here. So you're gonna, so when you're talking about, maybe, a home is located in, a heavily wooded area. You want to make sure you're getting, you probably want to stay within that higher L. R. V. That your light reflectance value range. When you're selecting colors or whites and things like that, just to make sure that you're getting that natural light and as much as possible.

Janet Engel: 23:16

And I had that issue in one of the homes that we lived in was that it only had windows. On one side of the house you didn't have windows that were on adjacent walls and it really deteriorated the light, natural light coming in at certain parts of the day where it was non existent, eventually we did some renovations and we had a transom, a picture window put in, and it made all of the difference in the world. So just the way that your home is constructed, you could have, you could live, in Miami, Florida and have a lot of sunny days, but if you don't have windows in the right places, that natural light isn't going to come

Emily Kantz: 24:00

in and then natural daylighting is it's like an instant, like mood booster, right? I just feel even like around Cleveland, like we have so many cloudy days, like you can tell people are a little sluggish, a little grumpy. But on those bright days, even if it's cold out, as long as the sun is shining people are just, it's just that natural kind of mood lifter and it's just. I, I, and we talk about that for like mental health too, right? Like you need that access to natural daylight because nothing can take that place of that, just that natural sunlight coming in. Yeah. And

Janet Engel: 24:32

something I learned a few months ago, I was writing an article about how vision changes as we age. And through my research and writing this article, I learned that we actually absorb vitamin D through windows. living in a house that has plenty of windows where you open the shades and that natural light is coming in, you're absorbing that vitamin D that we need, for our bones, for our muscles, and even for our vision. So just so many reasons why it's important to take advantage of natural light. Especially as we get older, It's important to have a biophilic design and then allow natural light to come into your home. So now Sue, I have a few questions for you. I would like to talk about the amazing products that Sherwin Williams has. I have been talking about several of these products with my clients, like the odor eliminating paint. The microbiocidal pain. And I know that with the microbiocidal pain isn't showing Williams the only company that makes a product

Sue Wadden: 25:47

like this. Yes. With this criteria. And just to be clear, it is a really commercial based product. We we've brought it to homeowners. But it's a little bit technical to put on. And so oftentimes we'll recommend a contractor to help put it on. And it's available only in a limited range. So it's a anti microbicidal, which means that basically Biologics that get in contact with the surface of the pain will actually die and diminish when in contact, but it's not like viruses. It's E. coli. It's more bacterial based. So during COVID, a lot of people are like, Oh, my gosh, this product is going to kill COVID. It's not. It is definitely, I think it kills 99 percent of bacteria when coming in contact with it. So we love it. I love the idea of it for handrails or back hallways or areas where all the little critters come in from outside. of your clothing. It's a great opportunity to put that in those spaces, but again, it only comes in a limited color array. So say Emily was saying like your top lightest colors on the color strip, if you can visualize the color strip, it lives within that range. You can't get really deep and saturated in color or the product formulation changes.

Janet Engel: 27:01

Okay. So then it sounds like it would be great in a bathroom because bathroom spaces are usually small. So you would want to opt for lighter colors and there, it was unfortunately most bathrooms don't have natural light coming in or they have a very small window.

Sue Wadden: 27:17

Yeah. But let me tell you about some other things. So we have a couple of other products that are really homeowner friendly, meaning they're easy to roll on. You can do it yourself. You can hire a pro and they've got characteristics in them that people don't consider when they think of wall paint. but they're amazing. So when we say air purifying our product, super paint with air purifying technology. Super Paint is a workhorse of a product for Sherman Williams. It's been around for I think, almost 40 years, like one of my favorite paints to paint. It goes on smooth. The surface looks beautiful, but it's got this technology in it where if you picture like a scent, this is how it works. Whether, say you're in your kitchen and you cooked curry for dinner and you can smell that scent in the air. What this product does is those odor molecules flying around, they'll come in contact with the surface of a paint, whether it's on your ceiling or your walls or your trim, and then that compound is broken down on the surface of the paint. there's a chemical reaction when those odors hit the surface of the paint and then they dry and in that drying process, they neutralize and eliminate so that unpleasant smell just goes away, which is fascinating to me. So that is just part of a product that's already out there. So not only can it help your space look good, but it can work really hard for you. So for a kitchen, like I, that is my kitchen ceiling. It's just a white indoor air quality in my in all my closets because and shoes and all the thi away and close th that don't get ventilated. While the door is shut, that product is helping to neutralize the odors within that space. And I think that's what's my favorite thing about these products is that the innovation goes beyond. It's just, it's central to the product. So it already exists. It's in there. It's just like a benefit that people don't really talk about because we're, there's not a lot of awareness on how to bring that sort of health, safety and welfare back into the home. We talk a lot about it in the commercial space. But the applications, like they're so basic when you talk about it in home, it just takes like conversations like this to really get the awareness out. So I think that's what really was so exciting about when you and I connected in October, just like how simple these little tools can be and have a big impact in home. VOCs, which are volatile organic compounds, those are. external forces that aren't necessarily biologics. They're not necessarily food related. It's off gassing furniture, carpeting, your wood flooring, all these other elements. If you get a low VOC product, the same technology as air purifying happens with those. So you paint your surface. It's perfectly, it looks great. It's amazing. And then those external VOCs hit those molecules, hit the painted surface. They have a chemical reaction and then they dry and dissipate. And so it just helps if you you don't often think about bringing, like if you've ever unpacked anything from, online shopping, which I do often, you take it out of the bag and you're like hit with the scent of how it was manufactured and how it got to you. Having a room that's painted in a low VOC paint will help to dissipate those fumes and those toxins that get in your body.

Janet Engel: 30:33

That's great. And I wanted to ask you about the odor eliminating paint. So I've been buying Sherwin Williams paint for many years. I usually buy the emerald, because I've been told that, that's the one that's going to look the best. I also like the matte finish, which I know is only available in the Emerald, sometimes Cashmere too. Okay. But now when you say this, the super paint, so how can I get that odor eliminating technology and the class of paints that I want the

Emily Kantz: 31:14

quality?

Sue Wadden: 31:15

So all of our top level products, which you just mentioned, thank you very much. So the emeralds, the cashmere, the duration, the. And even so much super paint, like I would put super paint in that category because it it performs so well, those products all have these characteristics built into their fabric. So like you're going to get with Emerald, you're going to get zero VOC. I can't say zero. I can only say low, but it's really low VOC. You're going to get like the best hide, the best scrub resistance, the best surface integrity. And you're also going to get the dissipating qualities in those products. So to your point, Emerald's an amazing product. You will absolutely love it, but like with duration. So duration is another one of our, like best ever products. We did some testing a few years ago. And we know how well duration performs outside. It's an amazing exterior product. It does, even better inside. But we did some testing with mildew and water, so I would say I would put duration in a bathroom any day of the week and twice on Tuesday because it helps with, say, you've got a shower and it's not really as ventilated as well as you want, and you're, you can't open your window to get some of that moisture out. It helps to neutralize the mildew on the surface so that just happens over time in a bathroom. If you have painted surfaces. or wood or tile, it, you get that residual moisture and duration can help inhibit like mildew growth. It basically says to mildew, no, you can't grow on this surface, which isn't that's just an amazing by product of that paint line. Which until you do this testing to really figure this out, like that's why paint companies always want innovation. That's why you always want to double triple check your formulas and look at what you can add to something to make it even better or work harder for you. And as a consumer shopping for brands of paint to use, I would think that is like going to be super important. We've talked about sustainability. We've talked about how color is so important in the interior environment. Well, so are these performance and technology characteristics, and they just, they're just working for you, behind the scenes, right on an, on their own, doing what they need to do to help for better indoor air quality.

Janet Engel: 33:33

Yeah. And I think that's a, such a brilliant piece that you just educated us on because you need that good air quality in order to age in place. If you don't have good air quality in your home, then you may be forced to use supplemental oxygen if you use supplemental oxygen. I can tell you that your quality of life is going to deteriorate because I'm simply walking around with these long tubes. I don't know if you've ever met anyone that uses it at home. But it's this huge long tube that you have to travel with everywhere. gets caught underneath the door. It's really cumbersome. And then if you want to leave the home, you have to carry your oxygen tank with you. which is not lightweight. So imagine someone that already has endurance issues and shortness of breath carrying an oxygen tank with them that weighs like 30 pounds. It would be heavy for me to carry that around. So as much as we can, we need to improve the air quality in our home. And then one very chronic condition that we haven't discussed yet is COPD, which stands for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. A lot of older people have this disease and you didn't have to have been a smoker to develop COPD. It is a byproduct of aging our lungs develop fibrosis. We just don't take in oxygen as efficiently as we did when we were younger. And so having a home where you have poor air quality, especially from mold, which is extremely dangerous and gets inside your tissues can really decrease your quality of life and prevent you from being able to stay at home.

Sue Wadden: 35:35

And Matt, like to your point earlier, that was a big part of why we wanted our ColorMix forecast to take on a different. point of view and really tie it back to HSW. Because as designers, we can help our clients make these subtle shifts, right? These small little specifications that will help long term for health and safety. And that was one of the biggest reasons we wanted to start having this conversation. Cause it's so important and it's such a, it's picking one product over another. That's, maybe 5 difference. These are. Premium products, but they're not a hundred dollars products. They live in the great category of really good quality and really good finish and amazing technology.

Janet Engel: 36:16

Yeah. And you'll have it in your home for about five years before Exactly. You

Emily Kantz: 36:21

have to replace

Sue Wadden: 36:22

it. Yep. Yes. And so some of the newer technologies, we're trying to push that. And so the there's the star charts in our store, or if you're talking to a Sherwin Williams, sales associate, they can help with that, but you can get some guidance. So like maybe this one will last 10 years or this one will have, these technologies for five years. And I think that's an important element is when you're searching for the exact same exact right product reach out to somebody in our stores or your sale rep sales rep and have that conversation. Cause they, they know so much.

Janet Engel: 36:52

Yes. And I have always been very good friends with my sales reps from Sherwin Williams and all of the different cities

Emily Kantz: 36:59

that I've lived in for that reason, because

Janet Engel: 37:02

they're so knowledgeable now we are talking about the micro antimicrobial pain. Yes. And then there's the microbial paint and those are two different things. Can you explain what, so micro

Sue Wadden: 37:17

Yeah. Mi microbial. And I'm not gonna do a good job on this. I feel like I should give you some like a PDF for your show notes that will describe it.'cause I can never get the words right. So there is, this technology is called paint shield and that was the product that we were selling it in. And it basically was developed there was an ion added to the molecules of the paint that would be like this microbial inhibitor. So basically e coli would come in contact with this and it would just die. It couldn't grow, it couldn't maintain. It was amazing, but it we thought homeowners would really love it coming, it was, we were selling it during COVID and we thought it was gonna do great and it just didn't it. Is it's a little bit more difficult to roll on. It's a little bit more difficult for average person to apply that it didn't take hold. So it's an interesting idea. I think it's going to maybe evolve again as technology and our innovation teams really continue to analyze it. I think they added, I don't know this for sure. That's why I don't want to say it, but there was an ion. I think it was maybe a silver ion that was added to the chemistry and that like Absolutely change the pH of the paint, but I'm going to get you some notes so that you'll have that information readily to hand if you want to talk about it and think about it it's a cool product, our low VOC and our air purifying, it's like a way easier product to

Emily Kantz: 38:44

use.

Janet Engel: 38:46

Yes. Okay. Yes. And I'll include it in the show notes. Emily, did you want to add something?

Emily Kantz: 38:52

it's interesting with the silver technology, because, you had a lot of commercial upholsteries, and, they went down that technology, too, of adding silver ions to, the upholsteries so that if things came on contact, it would just sit there and just die or wouldn't be able to spread or continue to live and feed. It's just I remember somebody said that's why, way back when they'd say a silver spoon in your mouth because it would naturally maybe kill whatever bacteria was in your mouth and it, if somebody wasn't feeling good. I don't know. That's just but it was like maybe they were onto something, way back when. But it's definitely interesting to see that technology being used, now in, in pain and, upholsteries and things like that.

Janet Engel: 39:32

Yeah, I agree. A few years ago being an occupational therapist, I specialized in lymphedema therapy and I would recommend a line of stockings that had silver in them because people with swelling in their legs tend to also have wounds. They may be diabetic, so they have non healing wounds. So these stockings that were. That had silver in the threading helped with that problem. Yeah, it's, I think it's amazing silver and honey things that have been being used, for hundreds of years now, I wanted to ask you, Sue

Emily Kantz: 40:14

with.

Janet Engel: 40:16

Our growing demographic of older adults, we have 10, 000 baby boomers turning age 65 every day until the year 2030. And then we have Generation X, that's the next group that is aging. So really, we're going to have an aging population until the year 2050. It's they're calling it the super aging society. How is a company like Sherwin Williams that has been around for a long time making great quality products. they're already creating products with this demographic in mind, but is it also being marketed? Like for example, all of these special qualities that these different products have, how is the word getting out that these products are going to help people age in

Sue Wadden: 41:15

place? I think it really is that welfare, HSW and sustainability tied together because sustainability is top of mind for all products that we produce and they have been for the last decade or so. I think we know that consumers are insisting like they're just simply not going to buy the products that are elkid. Well, elkid is okay because that's water based. They're not going to buy the products that we saw when we were kids, right? That were. They didn't have the sustainability characteristics that they have now, and that's that is a kind of our mission, right? If you will, as an organization that we're going to continue to innovate and drive products, I don't want to say that it's going to be something that I'm going to eat out of a cereal bowl, but the products that we make, right? They're going to be safe for interiors. They're going to be safe for babies and the elderly and my mom, right? I mean, I'm not putting any of these products in an environment with my loved ones if I don't believe that they're going to increase the health and safety of the people that inhabit those homes. So I think that is where we're going now. Where innovation takes us is always fascinating. I was in a meeting where I want Wi Fi paint. This is so funny. I want them to come up with the paints that can extend the range of Wi Fi. Oh, embedded in the walls that you can put some radio transmitter, right? That extends the range of the Wi Fi, right? And they're like, Sue, it can happen. We can do it. They tease me. But I think the sky's the limit on innovation and how technology is going to change thing. What's nanotechnology going to do? How are those teeny tiny micro chemicals and technology is going to enhance what we can do in paint, cause paints. Everywhere, right? And why wouldn't we try to capitalize on all the aesthetic principles, but also the technology and innovation that we want out of it. We'll have to keep you posted. We'll have to come back on, on new innovations that we have as related to your audience, but also interior design and trending. It's always a fun conversation

Janet Engel: 43:22

to have. Yes. And I can't let you go without asking you since you are the global color marketing director and you come up with the colors that we see for that year. How does that process

Sue Wadden: 43:39

work? Oh, it's fun. It's fascinating. So we have an annual workshop. It traditionally has been in February, but we moved up the timeline. So we had it just before the holidays in December. And we have a forecast team. We have members from all over the globe, and we get together and we talk about today's design issues, the things that are going on in the world that matter and impact design. And from that workshop, over the course of three days, amazingly, we come out with a storyline and themes that feel right for us. we talked about anthology next year, and, for 2025, we're going to go into the next thing. Thanks we follow this rhythm of design trends all in an effort to just educate tell our consumers, designers, homeowners, like where color is going, why this is going to be important what they can rely on so that when they're shopping, they see the colors that are going to be out there in the marketplace. So from that process, right? With this workshop, there's always one color through line and that the importance of that one color becomes our color of the year. It's really fun. It's a fascinating process. We love it. I lose, I get a lot of gray hairs from it. It's going to help me decide all these things. Well, I

Janet Engel: 44:55

wanted to tell you that I used your anthology book this year, because in December we repainted after four years. And so I went with Soji White. Which was in, in your book and then I kept navel cause that is one of my favorite colors and I already have it, I have it in my fireplace and I have a coffered ceiling and so I have it there and so the rest is Soji white and then where it came into contact with the navel, it is a Greek villa, which I've used for many years. In different

Sue Wadden: 45:36

places. That's a great color. Just great. Yeah, it's it's a fun, again, stressful at times, stressful job, but talking about the things that are most meaningful us to, the colors that Emily referenced. Those are beautiful colors. I have a new favorite egret white, which I think we talked about. It's this beautiful white and it's like you rediscover color all the time. Just by the nature of this job, we're talking

Emily Kantz: 46:01

about different things, it's fun. I

Janet Engel: 46:03

have that one too, in a living room, in another living room. Now, do you think that there will be, since we're talking about how vision changes over time, with the growing population of older adults, how we see differently as we age, we see colors differently. Do you foresee there being a color forecast for the older population or made more sensitive, a color forecast that is sensitive to how vision changes? I

Sue Wadden: 46:44

think we've talked about maybe not a full forecast, but maybe like smaller stories like newsletters or. Insights and information for the different segments and I think that would have a lot of impact versus a full big forecast because that would maybe just be too much information. Yeah, that's some of the things that we've talked about. How do we expand the conversation? To really just talk more about all the knowledge between our team and get that word out. So it's a goal. It's a 2024 goal. Okay, well, great

Janet Engel: 47:16

Emily, any closing remarks.

Emily Kantz: 47:18

No, I would just agree with Sue. I think, we get so many different requests sometimes to come up with a palette for, even just exteriors and the regions of, throughout the country, but also, when it comes to I was presenting in New York city in November and they asked, Hey, can we get a palette just for like mental health? So certainly those different, requests are definitely on our radar. It's just, Yeah. Finding the right partnerships and research and everything so that when we do come out with something that, we have have all of the research and everything is done that, what we're sharing with the public is, at the top of the line and, Certainly because they trust us as Sherwin Williams is the, we're the leader in color and, we want to be their go to resource for, color resources for like mental health, for senior living, for aging in place. And we don't take that lightly. So we really want to put our best foot forward and make sure that we're, sharing information that's very well documented and researched and everything. That when we're sharing that it's, the best of our ability and then does that, live for five years and then we come up with, there's other research or there's, new color systems or, whatever might come up and then, we're able to then, again, re share something, an update. So definitely on our radar. A lot of work. And yeah, a lot of good stuff, though. Really

Janet Engel: 48:38

excited about it. Yeah. Well, thank you, Emily. And thank you, Sue. This was so educational. I love the podcast with interior designers. And I had Rachel here a few probably about a year ago. And she talked about color. And it was such a popular episode. Like you said, people love color and it just makes such an impact in our lives. And Sherwin Williams has just so many wonderful products. that make it easy for the consumer to apply. Sometimes I hire painters, sometimes I do it myself.

Sue Wadden: 49:18

I think that's what we're going to find. One of the things that we're going to find as Gen Xers start to age is that they're going to, they're not going to want to get on a ladder and paint. So maybe they're going to hire more professionals. And so we want to make sure those pros are equipped with all this insight. Right. To help their clients. So I would say that's the next phase of this next generation getting older. All

Janet Engel: 49:43

right. Well, thank you ladies. It was a pleasure.

Sue Wadden: 49:48

It was great. Thank you for coordinating all this. And hopefully we'll be on again soon. Talk about something.

Janet Engel: 49:53

I would love that.

Emily Kantz: 49:55

Thank you so much.