Take a trip to Christ Church Cathedral in the heart of Dublin, Ireland on this episode of Charitable Travel's Travel Insider Podcast series, in partnership with Tourism Ireland.
Join Rebecca Miles, the new host of Charitable Travel's TIPs as she speaks to Susanne Reid who has worked at the Cathedral for over seven years. Journey through the Cathedral's history, and uncover the stories it holds from the past 1,000 years.
Learn more and plan your next trip to Dublin, Ireland today!
Thanks for listening, please subscribe, rate and share our podcast!
To find out more and book your next holiday visit www.charitable.travel to speak to a travel expert.
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Take a trip to Christ Church Cathedral in the heart of Dublin, Ireland on this episode of Charitable Travel's Travel Insider Podcast series, in partnership with Tourism Ireland.
Join Rebecca Miles, the new host of Charitable Travel's TIPs as she speaks to Susanne Reid who has worked at the Cathedral for over seven years. Journey through the Cathedral's history, and uncover the stories it holds from the past 1,000 years.
Learn more and plan your next trip to Dublin, Ireland today!
Thanks for listening, please subscribe, rate and share our podcast!
To find out more and book your next holiday visit www.charitable.travel to speak to a travel expert.
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter for more travel tips and inspiration!
Bec Miles: Hello, and welcome to Charitable Travel’s Travel Insider Podcast. My name's Rebecca Miles, I'm a travel journalist and the host of this podcast series, otherwise known as TIPs. We hope to give you lots of great travel tips today, but most importantly we intend to transport you from wherever you are right now, perhaps you're walking through the park, or maybe you're squashed into a crowded commuter train, to a place that will inspire you.
Today, we're traveling to Dublin. It's a city I'm sure many of you are familiar with, but to help us get under the skin of the place and reveal an alternative side to it we're talking to Susanne Reid, who works at Christ Church Cathedral, Dublin - more formally known as the Cathedral of the Holy Trinity.
The Cathedral has been at the centre of Dublin life for nearly 1,000 years. It celebrates its millennium in 2028, and Susanne has been working at the ancient building for seven of those years. While seven years to you or I is the time we typically spend at senior school, for Susanne, it's made her appreciate that good things take time. The cathedral really was built to last.
Within the Cathedral's grey stone walls, you'll find one of the largest crypts in Britain and Ireland, lots of exquisitely detailed floor tiles, and many quiet corners. It's these spots that Susanne finds most fascinating. And despite having worked here for seven years, she’s surprised at how often she uncovers new stories.
People come from all over the world to visit Christ Church Cathedral, because they're religious or interested in the architecture or the history, and all the stories this building tells. Its position in Dublin, on the edge of Temple Bar and 10 minutes’ walk from Trinity college, makes it a must when exploring the city.
But you don't want to hear me tell you all about this. I'm going to let Susanne the talking and share with us, her insight into Christ Church cathedral and the city of Dublin.
So welcome, Susanne. Thanks so much for joining us. Now. It's been a long time since I've been to Dublin and visited Christ Church Cathedral. Can you take me back there? Metaphorically? What does it look like? How does it smell as you walk in? What can you hear?
Susanne Reid: I think Bec, even if it has been a long time since you were at Christ Church, I guess a building that has stood at the heart of a city for almost a thousand years, there's that reassurance and comfort in that we don't do dynamic or enormous changes.
So, there would be that comforting familiarity as you return to see us for another time. It's right in the heart of Dublin city, surrounded by roads, and buses, and traffic, and city life. But once you come through the gates to the cathedral, It's really a different time, and place, and space.
So, you're, you're coming into really an oasis in the city. You'll, you know, there will be birds. We have two beehives in our, in our Chapter House ruins now, and there's a lot of planting. And at particular times of the year, the, the colours change in the cathedral grounds. When you come into the cathedral, I suppose, there's that comforting smell of again like beeswax and, and you see candles and you know, gentle lighting, and just an overwhelming sense of calm in that place.
Bec Miles: I can feel my shoulders dropping a few notches already just hearing you talk about that sort of peaceful calm place.
Susanne Reid: That’s it, and I think too, depending on what time of the day you’ve chosen to come in and see us, you know, you might catch one of our organists rehearsing, or you might catch the choir rehearsing.
Or you might even be there for one, one of the lovely song services that happen throughout the week as the choir maintain the centuries long pattern of song liturgy in the cathedral.
Bec: Gorgeous. So, when visitors arrive at the cathedral what's the first thing they're greeted with?
Susanne Reid: So, I guess I am slightly contradicting myself here because we're always working on something at Christ Church and that's what keeps it so relevant and vibrant in the city. So, when you come onto the grounds of the cathedral, now there is a lovely viewing platform which allows visitors to really take in the expanse of the cathedral and its precincts.
And also just, you know, it's a great space for those photographs and the sort of setting of the scene, if you like. When you come onto the viewing platform, there is some bone conduction technology there, which allows visitors to use their own bones and cutting-edge hearing technology to feel and experience some of the sounds of the cathedral, the base sounds of the heavier cathedral bells, and also some sounds of the organ.
We then also have a new installation there, which is a bronze of the cathedral and its precincts in the 1370s, which sets the scene again for the visitor. They have some sense of the, you know, some of the buildings that are not in perfect repair on the grounds, what they would once have been, and some sense of the footprint of the cathedral at that time.
We’re very keen on being inclusive to all at Christ Church. So that bronze for example has braille on it and is it children's height and wheelchair height so that anyone who comes on to the cathedral grounds can experience it and touch it.
Bec Miles: Oh, wonderful. I love the sound of that new cutting-edge technology, juxtaposed with this ancient building. So, do you have to actually wear the, is it a case of you have to wear something on your head to get the sound?
Susanne Reid: Not at all. It's low tech in that regard. It's your body that conducts the sound. So, you place your elbows on a railing, and there's one at a children’s height and for those in wheelchair height as well, and by doing that you feel the vibration of the sound up through your body and into your ears. Yeah.
Bec Miles: Wow, how incredibly immersive.
Susanne Reid: Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's certainly the only place we're aware of it being used in Ireland, at the moment anyway.
So, then I guess we're down onto the stone labyrinth, which people can use for a little bit of quiet reflection, what's also very sweet is we see children using it just to kind of follow each other around in circles and the experience it in different ways. And then you're coming into the building itself. I know some of you listening today will be wondering about bringing groups to the cathedral. and we welcome groups.
We have a web app which can be downloaded in advance. It's available in five languages, French, German, English, Spanish, and Italian. And it takes the visitor through the cathedral and the stories and the interpretation there is in three different strands. Christ Church and the City, Power and Politics, and Music and Spirituality. So, visitors have the opportunity to do really quite a gentle Christ Church visit, which would take maybe around 35/40 minutes following one of those strands, they can hop between them or, they can spend hours in the building and do all three. But it really has brought the building to life. It's done in an ‘eyes up’ way. So, you’re discovering and exploring as you walk through the building,
We've used the voices of the city, somewhat, in these audio guides. So, for example, we have the heart of Lawrence O’Toole in the cathedral, Dublin’s patron saint, and there is the member of Garda Síochána, the Irish police force who discovered the heart after it's theft, who tells the story of it's returned to the cathedral.
Bec Miles: Ah, brilliant. So, what's it like working in such a historically significant building?
Susanne Reid: I think that sometimes, you know, people imagine when you work in a cathedral that it's a very gentle space and that, you know, that there isn't really, maybe that much to do. In fact, it's, it's quite the opposite.
It's, a very busy environment to work in for those of us who are charged with, running the cathedral. Making sure it's open 364 days a year, making sure that it's kept to the standard that it needs to be, that it deserves to be kept to, and also delivering services, exhibitions, events, and tours for people coming on a daily basis.
It is an extraordinary building, and it's quite a privilege to work in it because, as I wander round, my favourite time to come into Christ Church is very early in the morning, and sometimes when I come in, the organ scholar is there ahead of me playing, and it might just be me and this wonderful music in this historic space and you're reminded of the purpose of the building and also of what a privilege it is to be there. Maybe I'm there seven years, just it's a real snapshot. And you think, you know, how long the cathedral has been there, almost 1,000 years, it'll celebrate its millennium in 2028.
So, we do find ourselves increasingly having those requests sometimes for groups to come in before the daily pattern of worship commences or the visiting starts, and they experience that maybe that dappled light coming in stained glass or just the peace of the building.
It's very special to be there by yourself. I like that quiet moment before the day starts, it sort of sets me up to handle the tasks that will be coming as the day goes on, and I'm also often struck as I wander around looking at things, or if I'm attending something in the cathedral sitting somewhere where I don't normally sit that you're looking at architectural features or stone masonry, or something in the floor tiles, or a light fitting, or just some feature that you don't really remember having noticed before. And I think for those who have come to see us, maybe in the past, it's definitely worth a second or a third foray into the building because you will definitely pick up something that you didn't notice first or second or third time around.
So, I think that, you know, when people construct something like Christ Church, it's, you know, they built these buildings to last and unfortunately, the fortunes of the cathedral have fluctuated down through the centuries, But the most recent piece of work that was done in the cathedral. And when I say recent, I mean the 1870s was thanks to money given to the cathedral by Henry Rowe, who was the largest distiller of whiskey in Europe at the time.
And he donated around the today's equivalent around €29 Million for the restoration of Christ Church. And at the time they went to London and street George Edmond Street was the ecclesia architect who was brought to Dublin for the restoration of Christ Church. In my office, I'm lucky enough to have some photographs dating back to that restoration, and it's definitely a different health and safety environment to the one that people see today because there's scaffolding with big bamboos you know, held together with rope and these very serious looking gentlemen wearing top hats and tails standing, observing the, the work scene.
Bec Miles: So, no hard hats.
Susanne Reid: No, not a hard hat in sight. And Street’s approach was not the careful conservation one that is taken today. When anything happens in Christ Church, he liked a minimal aesthetic in, in a building. So, any of the monuments that he didn't like were either thrown away or moved to the cathedral's crypt
The result is, is something quite spectacular, but we certainly wouldn't be attempting to do anything quite so dramatic these days that's for sure
Bec Miles: No. I mean there must be, oh, no you carry on.
Susanne Reid: I was going to tell you a little bit about our crypt.
Bec Miles: Yeah, do. I'd love to hear more about the crypt. It sounds incredible.
Susanne Reid: So, the crypt is right underneath the whole length of the nave of the cathedral and its Eastern chapels. So, it's the largest in Ireland. And as part of the millennium project in 2000, they put a proper floor in it, because up until then it was just loose clay floor.
And it really is quite an eclectic mix mixture of things that are stored down there. We have a mummified cat and rat that were found in the organ pipes and James Joyce references them in Finnegans Wake. The story goes that they couldn't get a sound out of the largest organ pipes, and when they took them apart, they found this fellow, this, mummified cat and mummified rat in the organ. So, they're kind of locally been given the name, Tom and Jerry, but sometimes our north American visitors refer to them as Itchy and Scratchy from The Simpsons.
We also have Ireland's oldest copy of Magna Carta in the cathedral crypt and it's Magna Carta Hibernia the Irish Magna Carta. So, it has all those wonderful headlines. That no man will be denied the right to justice, and all those great principles, but also they tell us who's allowed to fish on the River Liffey down the hill from the cathedral and it's situated
Bec Miles: Love the detail.
Susanne Reid: Yeah, [the Magna Carta is situated] just beside the Williamite commemorative plate, which was presented to the cathedral after the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, its entirely priceless. And the Silver Salver, which is the centrepiece of the, the plate is one of a pair. The other's on display with the Crown Jewels in London, but for our visitors, I think it's always interesting to remember that this, I suppose is a testament to the sort of the power and the politics of the cathedral, but also was not designed as an ornament.
It would've been put out on the high altar on highdays and holidays, big feast days like Christmas and Easter Sunday. Our visitors can get very close and see it in great detail and in general, there's no time pressure for having to move all along. Like you, you do when you're on the conveyor belt with the Crown Jewels.
Bec Miles: Yeah, absolutely.
Susanne Reid: So, the other thing that I would possibly mention, in the crypt is the have a lovely, dress up area, which we developed as something we thought would be used by, by children and by families. In fact, we find that it has huge appeal for all ages. So we see people dressed as strong bow or as a monk, having sword fights with each other in, in our crypt from time to time, right beside the costumes that Joan Bergen designed for the TV show, The Tudors which was filmed in Christ Church.
Bec Miles: Oh, my gosh, you got spanning all the ages. It's fabulous. I imagine as well, people must visit the cathedral for all sorts of different reasons. I mean, if you're particularly religious, what are the best bits to seek out? Or perhaps if you're particularly into your history, what are the must-see’s?
Susanne Reid: So, I think I would really recommend that people who are interested in coming for worship purposes would try to choral service. The choir is we've maintained a professional choir for over five hundred years. It's an adult mixed voice choir, adult men, and woman, and really considered to be the foremost church choir on the island of Ireland. No false modesty here.
Bec Miles: No, sing it loud.
Susanne Reid: Yeah. Loud and proud. So I would encourage anyone who has an interest in choral music or who would like to come for worship to come when the choir are singing.
However, sometimes people are drawn to the building, not because they want to participate or be part of a formal service, sometimes they really would like a quiet moment. And I would say then to maybe find the Lady Chapel or the Chapel of St. Blood and just have a moment or two to yourself there. And again, at the start of the day or, around lunch time tend to be quite quiet times in the building and they're a good time to come for that purpose.
For visiting. I would you know, I think our audio guide really has enhanced the visitor experience for so many who come to see us. But please do also take the time, we have vergers who are like the caretakers of the building. They're robed have a chat with one of those. Talk to our welcome desk team. Talk to the gang down at the gift shop because they love to tell the stories of the building to interact with the people coming and going. That's why they've chosen to work in somewhere like Christ Church.
I would also say for those who are fit and able, it's worthwhile considering taking one of our tower tours as well. Christ Church has nineteen bells which are rung in full circle. They added 2 as part of the millennium project and are now listed in the Guinness Book of Records, as the cathedral with the most bells, rung in full circle, anywhere in the world. the tower tour takes around 40 minutes. It's really behind the scenes. So the Cathedral is always immaculate, beautiful serene, and people tend to behave quite formally when they're in that space.
Bec Miles: Yeah.
Susanne Reid: We take them then up a winding medieval staircase, 86 stone stairs. They go across the roof at the level of the south transept(?) roof. So you have views out over the Dublin mountains, over Dublin city. Then you're in a little tiny door. I always call it like a Hobbit door into the ringing chamber and that, you know, it's quite informal, there's a kettle, there's a couch and our ringers are there for practice on a Friday and they ring on a Sunday. And also, for any major occasions.
Those on a bell who are learn about the numerical sequences of ringing, but also they get to have a go at ringing the cathedral bells as well.
So that's wonderful.
Bec Miles: I love that sound.
Susanne Reid: Yeah, it's quite special, you know and obviously, you know, photographs possible and, you know, we can see that. That people really enjoy getting behind the scenes a little bit, under the skin of the cathedral.
Bec Miles: Yeah, definitely. So, does that run every Friday?
Susanne Reid: It runs pretty much every day throughout the summer season. And then it's definitely worth having a look at our website for other times of year. If you're traveling out of season.
Bec Miles: Brilliant. Okay. Now we've touched on a few, but there must have been some really interesting characters throughout the history of the cathedral who were your favourites?
Susanne Reid: I think. You know, since I, I love the, I love that story of the, the heart of Lawrence O’Toole, you know, I love the idea that he was so fond of Dublin and of Christ Church, that his supporters brought his heart back from France. When he unfortunately passed away there, and this is in the 12th century,
We have a large lead heart-shaped object on display in the cathedral. This is the heart attributed to Lawrence O’Toole. And I love that story of people hiding in the cathedral in 2012 and the heart returning to us in 2018 and the, you know, the policeman in charge of the investigation taking the whole thing. So, so personally. I also love the, the story of Henry II coming up the Liffey in a flotilla to attend Christmas mass at Christ Church in the 12th century.
And [I’m] also fascinated that it was the, the cathedral of choice for the coronation of Lambert Simnel. One of the two pretenders to the throne [of England].
Bec Miles: I guess he would've had his pick of places.
Susanne Reid: Well, you would've thought so, but significant perhaps that it was to Ireland, he came for the coronation.
Bec Miles: Fabulous. Yeah. It sounds like there's just so much to explore. I mean, and as you say, visit once twice, three times more as you'll always find something new. But once visitors have finished exploring Christ Church cathedral, where should they head to next?
Susanne Reid: Oh, I mean, I think that's one of the great beauties of Dublin.
I had a friend here over the weekend and I think that's what really struck him was just how we could get out and about very easily. It was so walkable. And it really depends on, you know, what, what people are interested in doing. But I think we're right beside Dublin Castle and the, the great visit there. We're right beside Teeling’s distillery across the river from the old Jameson distillery. So if people like to taste the whiskey and tour distillery, that very possible as well.
For those who are more into the heritage and that level, that side of culture. I would recommend a stroll from Christ Church down through temple bar, the little cobble streets, maybe a coffee or a glass of something on the way. And then through the front arch, into Trinity college where it it's so lovely to walk through the college grounds and, and then perhaps visit the old library was the Book of Kells.
I then like to go out and over to Merrion Square, and I'm not one for spending a day in an art gallery, but I do love to pop in and they've restored the gallery quite recently.
So, the 18th century rooms are just beautiful. You have a real sense of grandeur and of people who knew how to construct things to last and of quality, but also, you know, you might just pop in and see a Caravaggio, or there are always ongoing exhibitions there, which the last one I went to was Vermeer, and it was excellent, but there's always something to catch your eye in the National Gallery.
I love, myself, to pop in from time to time to Marsh's Library. It's the first public library in Europe. And I suppose we’re all quite used to, you know, picking a book up here or there even downloading one onto our Kindle, but there I think we’re reminded just how precious a commodity a book was. So Narcissus Marsh who founded the library, had some of the books are in chains and still are, and readers were put in cages so they could consult them, but not make off with them. So, it's quite an interesting little spot to visit too.
There's a relatively recent Museum of Literature, MoLI on Stephen’s Green. And for those who have a fondness for Dublin, the Little Museum of Dublin on Stephen’s Green is gorgeous. Everything from millennium milk bottles to bits of YouTube memorabilia and always worth calling in there to see what else they've decided to put on display.
Bec Miles: Awesome. I mean, it just sounds like it's such a city for all the senses. You touched on those distilleries. Where else should we be if we're wanting to eat and drink our way around the city? Where else are you heading to?
Susanne Reid: Well, I think just because where I'm situated, I tend to, you know, I love, it's a weakness of mine, a nice cup of coffee and a bun or a nice cup of tea and a scone.
Bec Miles: Yes
Susanne Reid: So there's a gorgeous bakery café just around the corner in Temple Bar from the cathedral called Queen of Tarts. So if you fancied a bowl of soup and then a lemon meringue or something delicious and homemade, I would recommend there. And throughout the summertime, when people are there in the summer, they have tables outside. But a gorgeous cosy interior throughout the year as well.
I think, there's a lovely boardwalk on the Liffey now, so you can get right down the Liffey and stop off in other places, a gorgeous restaurant, just for quite a special lunch, would be the Winding Stair again, major focus on Irish produce, great selection for vegans and vegetarians as well. And for those who like to have a little glass or something lots of different and unusual wines by the glass.
Tomorrow night we will, in Christ Church, we'll be having some people to come and do the tour, and at the end of that, we're working with the chipper, which is across the road, Burdock’s chipper. They're just across the road from the cathedral really. Tiny little fish and chip shop and they have some of the finest cod and chips on the island. I think. So people love to just get a takeaway fish and chips and come across and sit in the grounds of the cathedral and eat those.
But I think for anyone who likes seafood, or a good pint, or a social environment, Dublin has any amount of choice. I would also say that, you know, it's very easy as well. If you're a second- or third-time visitor to the city, it’s so easy to hop on a dart, or a bus and, and get to the seaside. You know, the dart is the local train that goes right along the coast at Dublin Bay. There's some gorgeous scenery there and very easily you could be in Howth for a walk along the cliffs, or you could be out Dùn Laoghaire, which is a, a port just to the south of the city and get a little, a lovely walk at the Victorian harbour there. And of course, a nice ice cream or, something that lets you know, you're on holidays at the end of that.
Bec Miles: Definitely what a brilliant mix.
Susanne Reid: Yeah.
Bec Miles: I mean you are so lucky to, to live in the city, live in the heart of it, but if you just have one day free to spend exactly as you wish how do you do it? What do you do?
Susanne Reid: So I would probably start at the, at the seaside and have a dip in the sea for, for, because in, in, on my perfect day, the weather allows me to do that.
Bec Miles: Yeah, absolutely. The weather is exactly as you wish.
Susanne Reid: Exactly. Then I'm having a nice coffee and a scone and getting the dart into the city centre. And probably because I am, I love bookshops, so I'm probably calling into the Gutter Bookshop on Cow’s Lane and probably calling into Dubray Books on Grafton Street. I might even pop into you know, just some of the old, some of the second-hand bookshops around time.
Then I'm meeting a friend and we're, you know, we're, we're maybe doing a little bit of the sightseeing that I haven't done in some time, or we're going to experience one of the, the newer things. Like we might take an afternoon tea on the Double Decker bus with the Vintage Tea Time tours.
Bec Miles: Oh, wonderful.
Susanne Reid: On the tour of the city. Yeah. Or maybe I'm getting on the Viking splash tour and taking a World War II Duck or Amphibian through the city roaring at the rest of the people.
But, but really, I'm probably catching up with pals and certainly walking around and maybe just having a, you know, going to Stephen’s Green, which is always beautifully planted throughout the year. And people watching there for a while.
Not really, not being under any time pressure at any point in the day. And just, I suppose a bit like my own version of Ulysses, just having a stroll through the city and noticing the signs and the smells and the people and taking my time to do that.
Bec Miles: Oh, that sounds heavenly. Thank you. You've transported us perfectly.
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