Classroom libraries: schools, principals and transforming the teaching of reading. Part 1

Kids just love books about bums and farts! They also love to read about dinosaurs, planets and animals. This is why the humble classroom library is a must in all schools.  Reading expert, Diane Snowball, talks about the importance of exposing children to a range of reading material that stimulates curiosity, builds vocabulary and has them craving more. Principals, get the cheque book out because this is just the beginning in how to transform reading......

Transcript

Loretta  0:03  
You're listening to Loretta Piazza experienced school principal, mentor and coach. And together were talking out at school. You will hear from leaders who have lived and breathed so many experiences good and bad, agonized over decisions, and have tossed and turned through countless sleepless nights. These are the people who will help you stay ahead of the game. 

Di Snowball is one of those literacy experts who knows what she's talking about. With more than 50 years teaching behind her, her knowledge is from lived experience in schools, working with teachers, and working with kids. Part one is about classroom libraries. Are they a relic from the bygone era of infant mistresses? And male principals mowing the oval on the ride on mower? Or do they still have an integral place in today's classrooms? If you're scratching your head and wondering, what's this all about, make yourself comfortable because there's lots to learn. 

Hello, Di, welcome to Talking out of school.

Diane  1:16  
Hi Loretta, nice to be talking to you.

Loretta  1:20  
Well, you're a living legend. And the only way I can describe you is the reading guru. So tell me about the reading Guru in your background and how you became so knowledgeable.

Diane  1:33  
Well, I began actually as a secondary maths teacher. And then the principal the school I was working at suggested because I was also very interested in children's literature. And the education department was offering scholarships for someone to do a librarian ship course on full pay that I should take it up because it was a way to get extra qualifications, etc. So I did that. And I absolutely fell in love with children's literature, and decided I would take up a job in a primary school as a librarian. But one year of that made me realize that I was to do with the school I was working, I think I didn't really feel part of this whole school, the way we were working, I was sort of like I was the person aside over there who looked after the library. And so I applied for a primary school position. And in those days, if you were the most senior woman, then you were the infant mistress. And that was me. Which meant I was responsible for Prep, one and two classes. And everything about them what happened there. And I thought, I'm going to have to reach resign, I don't know enough to take that on. And it's a very, very important job. So instead, I decided, I better find out a lot about especially the teaching of reading, because it's so important in those age ages. So in those days, it was a matter of finding what professional reading you could. I'm talking about 1972, I think it was. And so I just tried to find everything I could went to whatever conferences there were there were not even very many those, the Australian Reading Association hadn't even begun then. But I did have a couple of really good books to read, there was a lot of really good work going on in New Zealand and America. And I just wanted to bring myself up to date with everything there was to know at that time. And so it's really gone on from there. Once you start the journey of learning about the teaching of reading, it's never ending. And so every opportunity I've had, I've tried to find out more. And of course, you know, we're talking about this is my 54th year in education. And I have, you know, I think I've taught nearly every age group, and then working at what was true at Teachers College and CoburgTeachers College in those days. Because I was, you know, taking courses in the teaching of literacy. Again, it was very important to make sure I was very up to date with whatever was been spoken about read and read about, et cetera. And, and, of course, working with other professionals. So, all of it has just been very enriching for me. I was invited to speak at overseas conferences. And again, then you start to go to research conferences and it just you know what it's like it just goes on. And I think I've been very fortunate that it I've had have the opportunity to have to teach a lot about about reading in particular, but not just reading every aspect of literacy, that it keeps you on your toes about keeping yourself very knowledgeable. But I've always done lots of classroom practice as well, you can't, you know, if I read about something, I would want to try it in a classroom and see how it worked. Before I felt comfortable about sharing that with others. So all of my years in consulting, I've been able to do that. I like to go into other teachers classrooms and actually demonstrate, but no say to them, this is sometimes this is me having a go. And I'm willing to do this with your kids. And we'll see what happens. And you know, but also, by doing that, you see a lot about what teachers need to know a lot more about, from a variety spiffs perspectives. You're working in lots of different schools with different kinds of kids, you know, the ones who are supposedly disadvantaged because of where they live, but they're not necessarily, sometimes they have a lot of advantages. I always thought knowing another language was an advantage, not a disadvantage, for example, families. And so, you know, I just still even though I'm supposedly retired, now, I still work. I'm working with a graduate teacher in a school at the moment, who's got a foundation class. And so I just feel it's so important for her children that I help her as much as possible. And she's lovely. She wants to learn a lot of principles very supportive. So I can't give up on stuff like that. Got on. Yeah. And I still work with children. You know, through COVID, I did a lot online with children. And again, you know, that you just learned so much from working with different children. So that I think that practical stuff is always what keeps you wanting to learn more, and actually being able to try things out to

Loretta  7:14  
I don't know, why is reading so complicated compared to maths?

Diane  7:20  
Well, I don't know that a lot of people would say maths is not complicated, either. Let's just say a lot of things are complicated. And reading and certainly

Loretta  7:29  
maths is very linear. And

Diane  7:36  
I'm not sure that's so either, but I think we'll that's that's a whole other discussion, isn't it? Yeah, I know what you mean, though, I think that there seems to be a clearer idea about what to teach in mathematics, and something builds on on another. However, of course, with reading all of the processes and strategies you use as a reader, you're using no matter what your age group. And so you don't, it's not linear, as in? Well, by grade three, that's where they'll start to teach comprehension. And I know that used to be the way it was thought of, but it's not you have to be involved in teaching your kids how to comprehend right from the beginning. Because it's not enough to just say the words, that's important, too. But all of the strategies are ready to use is need to be included, right from the start of reading, even long before they come to school. Without even realizing it, a lot of parents are doing a completely quiet range of things with their kids. That's helping their reading. Yeah, so I think that's that that might be what makes it seem more complex, originally, because there are so many facets to being a successful reader. And it varies, what you do varies according to the text, and your purpose for reading, and, you know, a whole range of other things. So it's not just you always do this. And you always do that. In every read, it brings something different to their reading as well based on their own experiences of knowledge and what they've been taught or what they think reading is their own self confidence, a whole range of personal and practical issues.

Loretta  9:27  
You're a really big advocate of classroom libraries. 

Diane  9:32  
Yes. 

Loretta  9:33  
What does the good classroom library look like actually Di?  What sort of books are included?

Diane  10:09  
Well, there's some general things to take into account. And then we would think about what year of of kids were teaching so that we can actually specialize for them. But in general, what we should be making sure of is that this is number one, when I looked at this graduate teacher's classroom library, for example, I realized there were not enough books at her classroom library that the children could actually read. And considering the purpose for a classroom library, is so that children will have very easy access to resources they can read, then that's number one. You know, I could, for example, in a prep classroom, I could have loads of fabulous picture books. But they would be books that I wouldn't be expecting them to read at the beginning of the foundation year, but I'm going to read to them. So if I'm going to have them in my classroom library, I will actually label them and keep them perhaps in a particular section, that these are books that the teacher can read aloud. And also the children can browse through. So but if I'm in an older age group, then again, they might be a lot of picture books. But I would think most of the children could read these books. So even just how you organize them is very much dependent on what the children are able to do. Because, as I just said, a moment ago, the most important thing is, kids could go to a library in the school or central library, and get material to read. But that doesn't make it easily accessible. And that's what the research has found that the more accessible books are, the more children are likely to read. And so we know that if they haven't got books in the home, of course, they're really disadvantaged because then it's not easy access. So I mean, you want to organize them in a way that children can easily find a what they're interested in and be what they will be able to read. Or if they're not able to read it, they can say, well, I know I can't read this book myself personally, but I'm really interested in it, it might be something I could look through and just enjoy looking through the book browsing as we might call it. Or it could be something that someone could read to me. And so that knowledge about what's what's what smart readers do, as in, if they want to read independently, they've got to find the right material for that. So I'm thinking of the practical aspects, then I'm thinking of the content. So I want to have a lot of resources that the children will be interested in. And that might be dependent on the age group, or it might even be dependent on this particular group of kids, and an even be one child who is really very interested in a lot of things that other kids aren't. So I'm trying to cater for their interests. I'm wanting to make sure that they're getting access to a range of fiction and a range of nonfiction. Because what you know what, again, if you've it's been read to them, or have they're reading it themselves, they're actually learning different strategies to read, for example, a nonfiction book, but it might also be factual and how it's organized, versus what they would be doing when they're reading a story. So that variety is important. Even within nonfiction, you know, I might see a classroom library, that's a lot of books that are in a box called labeled animals. And I'll say to the kids, well, that's a huge range, do you think we could look through them, and perhaps group them so that if you're interested in wild animals or pets, you would be more easily able to find the books that would interest you. So we can then break down the categories according to their interests and what the books are about. Then, the most important thing is they need to be easily if the number of books are in a box or on a shelf. And you can go into a school library and see in the picture book section, this whole rows of spines. And if you try it yourself, it's actually very hard to pull about one book at a time and look at it and go through it and decide, is this something I'm interested in or I want to read? And even if there's a particular author, I like let's say it's Mem Fox. Last name starts with an F. So she's going to be in the F section, but so are 100 other books by other authors, so I can't even quickly find all the books I want to read by Mem Fox. So when I'm thinking about what how the books are organized, then the smaller boxes rather than just a row of spines on a shelf, and the books facing out, so the covers are there, and not squashed in. Because I would have easily flipped through those books in the box looking for the one I want, or being able to see from the picture on the front cover whether it might be something I'm interested in. And then you know, within that, I might even have books arranged according to difficulty. And so, but I always do that with the children. And we, it gives us a chance to talk about what makes this book easy for you to read, and what will make it difficult. So that when you are looking at perhaps the structure, the book or what you know about it, and so forth, then we can, same time as we're together organizing our classroom library, we can think about how to make everything more accessible for what my particular needs are. So it's a variety, its interests, its topics, it's a bit we might have authors together, particularly, you know, there are authors that particular age groups children actually love to read. And also, even where they are in the classroom, you know, you could have just opposing corner, that's like a very cozy place to read. Or you could think But hang on a minute, that gets too squashed for my kids to get in there and find a book that I want. So am I better off to have it spread out a bit in different parts of the room? There's no fixed way, it's a matter of sometimes your room design even effects then, but you're thinking all the time about the purpose of your classroom library? And how will it most easily be used and accessed. And look, I want to tell you some of the things that that I think are important too, it doesn't often happen. If I'm teaching my kids, for example, a comprehension strategy, like visualizing, then if the book they're reading, and the author doesn't actually write a lot of descriptive stuff, that it's not very easy to get a picture of what's going on. Or if it's something that you know nothing about, it's very difficult to get a picture of what's going on. So I might say to the kids, well, we want to really work with that strategy. So let's all of us in the class, see if we can find, why don't you really think about this, or the author is really helping me a lot in when I'm reading this to get good pictures in my head. So let's put them in a box together. Because if the kids need more help with that strategy, then that will help them to do that. So you know, I'll be thinking all the time about what am I trying to help my kids to be able to do better as readers and, and therefore, organize books in that way. And, you know, it's interesting that I guess that's why some people will buy decodable books. And they're usually written around, they're really, really written around a rime-  r-i-m-e. So at, ip, up, whatever. So the fat cat sat on the mat would be those, as many words as possible have at the rime at. And all that changes is the, the onset at the beginning of the word. Now, those books are actually very good to have, at a time when children are learning about how to make use of on onsets and rimes to help the reading and writing. But you know, there's not very much money in schools. And apparently you can get some of those that are free. But I always find if the children actually write their own, then they're learning how to make use of that knowledge. And it's about the words that they know, and their own experiences. So it's even more meaningful to them. And then they're able to read what they or other kids in the class or the class as a whole have written. So I'm more interested in them actually being able to use the knowledge that we're teaching them. Because I'm not just getting kids to learn all the A words for the sake of knowing A words. We're only learning about them because they will help you as a reader and a writer. So the more I actually get them to do the practical part of that. And it's not a time consuming thing for a teacher because it's the children who are doing it. And that even gives me as a teacher the opportunity to look and say, to these kids have they picked up on this knowledge that if they know the word day, it will help them write the word, say or play. So I'm actually assessing at the same time. Whereas if I just gave them a book that someone else had published, I'm not learning a lot about how they're able to use that knowledge as a writer, and then as a reader. So and I think it's a pity when people think you've always got to just buy, rather than having the kids actually do it, where the learning experience is so much stronger. So we could have a section of those sorts of books that we've written in the classroom in a read, you know, in a foundation classroom, because that onset rime knowledge is one of the things we want them to use as a reader. And as a writer. And you know, it even, you know, if, for example, if a child is reading the book, the chicken will lay an egg, we can, if they don't know the word lay, I actually don't want them to start at the beginning of the word and go all year, because it won't help them to say that word, I want them to recognize the end of the word first in that case, and recognize ay, because they know that word day. And that will help them then to work out how to read the word lay. So there's another strategy that I know they're going to use a lot as a reader at that age group. And so I will make sure that we've got some resources built, that will help with that, when we would put them in a particular section of our classroom library, we would also put books, other books that the children have written just about their own experiences, they're very, very important part of any classroom library, the children's own writing, because that gives an authentic purpose to being a writer, other people are going to read my writing. And so that's important class books that we make along the same basis are going to be about our own experiences. And we want the kids to reread those, reading what we've written. And I look, we've talked a lot about books, and I know, this is a long explanation of a classroom library. But but this is what a classroom library is. It's not just books, you know, it might be charts and newspaper articles. And there might be audio of books too. And there's a terrific range of books that kids can listen to, or, and then that's more read aloud for them, or read along with, which helps with their fluency, etc. So I would have those sorts of things accessible there as well, because I know they're going to help the children's reading development.

Loretta  22:51  
Now, a lot of the newer schools that are being built, and we know there are many across Victoria, especially in the growth corridors. Now, I've noticed that a lot of those schools actually don't have the physical four walls and the library.

Unknown Speaker  23:08  
A school libray?. Yeah, you know, eventually. I mean, that's, that's a major resource for every teacher in the school to be going to, to get books for their classroom library. So that's one really important use of them. And the other is, we still want children to go and learn how to use a library. And it's, you know, I would take them to book shops for the same reason. You know, who you are with all these books and other resources? How can you use this? How will you find what you want? Because that's, that's life, you know, why don't you leave school, I still go to the library to borrow books. So I would hate to think that children grow up not knowing how to do that. So they have a different role than the classroom library. The other thing is, and it is really sad that these days, there are very few opportunities for teachers to train to be a teacher librarian. And so most school libraries don't have one. But if that person can keep themselves knowledgeable about everything that's been published, for children to read, and listen to, then they can be a tremendous resource for the school. I would say one of the most difficult tasks for classroom teachers is keeping themselves up to date with children's literature. And, you know, if you've got one person in the school, whose job that is, to keep up to date, and keep bringing that knowledge to all of the rest of the teachers, and to kids, you know, I'm interested in blah, blah, and that person would be able to help them. So I don't understand why they've decided not to have a school library. It just doesn't make sense to me. I think that's been a misunderstanding of what classroom libraries are for. Because, you know, they have to change what's what's in a classroom library during the year. I mean, you think about preps at the start of the year, what they're able to read versus what they're able to read by the end of the year. If you haven't changed, what's in your classroom library, you're not really helping them very much, are you? So you know, where am I going to get that resource? No school has enough money, or no, public school has enough money to go and just completely set up every classroom, like you would set up a school library. Hmm.

Loretta  25:39  
Di, I wonder what your view is on the very popular novels, the very high interest and language like bum? I was trained as a teacher librarian many, many years ago, I spent 10 years in a library. And you know, some of those really, really good novels, you always made sure that you pulled them out and read them to the kids, it seems to me that we're seeing a lot more of that very popular type for for kids. What's your view on all of that?

Diane  26:16  
Well, look, I know, especially little boys, I've seen, oh, my godchildren's children, they love bums and farts, you know, and it's sort of like they think of them as being naughty, I think. And so it's sort of a bit of giggle to read them. And so if it, if it gets them interested in reading, well, then and I'm not saying no, anything, I'll do it. But if it's not bad and harmful, and it gets them interested in reading, that's fine. But if that was their only diet of reading, then we would be concerned. So an even a series, you know, one of the things about being a reader is that you love to get hooked on a particular series or author. And as adults, we still do, waiting for the next one to come out. Bit like TV series, even. So I don't mind if the kids want to read all of the particular series, you know, the bad guys, fabulous books, and they want to read them. Andy Griffiths, and Terry Denton do series. But if they only read those books, I would be concerned. So it's my job as a teacher then to say, Okay, you really love these books. So I think you will also love these. And I am concerned if the books they're reading are very limited in their vocabulary. Because we know that that's how the your vocabulary continues to grow the most. Although we still need to do some teaching of it, the greatest growth comes from what you're reading, but it's not going to come if the what you're reading has the same words in it all the time, or it's always about certain topics or experiences, the vocab is going to be very limited. So I have to make sure that they're reading beyond this series or beyond the books. And you know, and you're right, there are so many of them coming out now, it's almost like you could have a little section in your classroom on bums and fart books. But, you know, there are some authors who write such wonderful, rich material that with really enjoyable stories anyway, that, you know, we've got to keep expanding the variety of what they're reading.

Loretta  26:35  
And that's why it's important to to jump on the website and have a look at the books that are that have been published and the books that are also winning the awards, the Book of the Year and for Older Readers.

Diane  28:52  
Exactly. Yep. I subscribe to several good children's book shops. And they usually send out an email every month telling you what the latest best books are. You know, even someone who's interested in I go into book shops and browse through children's books keeping up to date, it's hard. So if someone else who's knowledgeable is going to help you with that it's important. And of course, you know, the Book Awards, the Australian children's laureate, I noticed an email I got this morning. Through that there's now a lot of free audiobooks, and I looked at what they were and there were some terrific titles that were now free for schools or individuals. And I thought, wow, that is so good. Some families can't afford to go and buy books. And also the listening and to books is is really grateful for their literacy development anyway. So I thought I must send out a notice to all of the people I know in schools to tell them about this because something free that's really good is one To know about,

Loretta  30:02  
I'd love to see your library.

Diane  30:05  
Well, the funny thing about it is that I used to have such a collection of books. And I tell you, I had to watch myself I'd go into a bookshop, children's books. And I found I was always buying fabulous picture books. I have to remind myself to buy more nonfiction. You know, tell people to do it if you're not doing it yourself. But kids used to come to our place and say, How come you've got your own library? They have to go to it now, and quite a number of years ago, I thought it's really silly them been on my shelf, they need to be read. They're needed in some schools. So I ended up giving away all of my books. Oh, give them to, you know, my, my god children's children. And then then there are favorites that I have to go and buy again. But then I know I have to give them away again. So yeah, it's it's not as broad as it used to be it used to take up a whole room.

Loretta  31:08  
Thanks for listening to this latest episode of talking out of school, where we cover topics and dilemmas associated with the ups and downs, and even the downright curious of the school leaders' job. Want to know more? Then visit me at shaping leaders.com.au But for now, here's to staying ahead of the game.