EP 48: If Your Business Looks Small Online Will It Ever Grow?

A dance school can be full of talent and still look “small” if the brand is unclear, the marketing is inconsistent, and the owner is buried in admin. We sit down with Lauren, owner of Avenue Dance Company in Hampshire and the newer Shining Star Performing Arts, to unpack the exact mindset and execution shifts that help her go from a basic logo and scattered posts to a professional identity parents trust and a business that can actually scale.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Morning, welcome to the Class for Kids studio. You are virtually streaming into the studio today. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Thank you. I am very good, thank you. Having a good week so far, and how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

I am good. I am excited to be chatting to you today. Um, but not everybody who's watching this or listening to it will know who you are. So why don't you give us a quick intro to who you are and exactly what it is that you do?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Okay, so I'm Lauren and I am based in Hampshire in England. I'm the owner of Avenue Dance Company. We are turning, I think we're turning nine this year. So we've been running for nine years. And then recently in 2024, I took over a performing arts school called Shining Star Performing Arts. So I now own two schools.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, and that is a big change. So I kind of knew about you taking over Shining Star. I think we were speaking around the time that you were doing it. Um, but since so the reason you're on with us today is because you're going to be chatting through next level's little sibling, Level Up, um which you won. But yeah, when we were doing Level Up with you, you only had Avenue Dance, and now you've blossomed into opening two very busy dance schools and performing arts theatres.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

I have, yes. It's been a crazy four year since I won.

Branding Beyond The Logo

SPEAKER_00 1:17

But only next I know it has been um uh yeah, a whirlwind of a four year. So much has happened in that time and so much for you personally. And I think that's why it's good for us to be able to chat through exactly what level up did for you. So we're gonna be kind of breaking it down into three segments. So the first one we're kind of gonna talk on is branding and how that supported your growth um as an individual, but also across the businesses. We're gonna look at how the marketing elements of the the competition helped you as well. So from marketing strategy to social media, and then the final section that we're gonna look at is um profitability and scalability. Like, how did you do that? So I think why don't we start with looking at the brand side of things then? So can you tell us a little bit about what did you know about brand, first of all, before level up? Like what was your understanding of brands?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Not a lot, to be honest. So branding. I just all I thought of was logo. We just need a logo, we need a logo for the company. And I did, I started off when I first started the company with one logo and it was so basic. I had no idea what I wanted. And then when I rebranded again, again, I had no idea what I wanted. I was like, oh, it just needs to be appealing, just needs to be appealing for people to know who we are. And I had no clue. Um, it wasn't until that I went through the branding with you guys that I was like, this is so much bigger than just a logo. And I just that's something I never understood. I mean, I started a dance school because I loved teaching dance, not because I knew how to run a business. So you don't really get to hold these things, it's kind of up to you to learn it, or for someone else to come in and see it from a different perspective. So yeah, all I thought of just a logo back then.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, and and lots of people, um, that is a common mistake that people make, that people assume that a brand is a logo, you know. We know the likes of what Apple's logo is Coca-Cola, KFC, McDonald's, those types of things. And that's part of the visual identity, which is really important because it's what helps, you know, your customers or people that are interested in your brands be like, I've seen that logo, I know who that is, and that's kind of the visual element of it. But there's also this whole other identity side of it. It's about who you are and what you stand for and what it is that you offer and what's your USP and those kinds of things. So, do you think before you went through, and we'll touch on the experience that you went through in a minute, but do you think that customers understood what Avenue Dance stood for before you understood what brand really meant?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yes and no. They knew that we were a fun recreational company, but it didn't scream professional. I think they saw us as like, oh, just a little dance goal. And that's probably how I presented myself. I wasn't confident with our branding, and I don't think that our parents knew our core values because that wasn't something that we put across in our branding, in everything, our identity. Do you know what the identity wasn't as standout as it is now, I don't think. Like it wasn't, we weren't confident with it, so that didn't come across to the parents.

Building A Professional Identity

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, and that's it. It's like your perception of the first of all, that's the perception of you yourself, but actually more importantly, how are customers perceiving you and what is it that they understand that you offer? And I think what you touched on there is like the core values of what you stand for really matter. And the other thing with brand is that it's a living thing, so it evolves with you. You know, your brand won't stay the same forever, and it should evolve, and that's natural. So I think kind of let's talk about then your experience. So when you won level up, gosh, so that must be three and a bit years ago since you won level up, you worked with an agency called Parachute, who kind of helped you dig into what it is that you stood for, what is it that you wanted to be known for, what were the core values you felt your business and and the Avenue Dance Company represented. So talk us through what you can remember from that. And um, yeah, let's see like what what was the moment that clicked where you're like, oh my goodness, this is what my brand stands for. So talk us through first of all your experience and what you went through and how you got to where your brand is today.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, so we were at this at the time actually, we were going through a whole website redesign. So this came at the perfect time, and I remember it was Michael from Parachute who I was in talks with, and he was looking at redesigning our brand in, redesigning our logo, and he was like, What do you want? I said, I have no idea. No, the logo before was literally colourful, it had everything. I didn't even have a font like that I used in my branding. I used, I didn't it was that kind of stuff that Michael was like, right, what font would you like? What colours would you like? And I went, I don't know. And then I think that clicked for me that I wasn't clear with my branding. So then I wasn't clear as a business owner, as a dance school owner, with our values, our branding. So it was all in talks and like looking at what I liked, the kind of styles I liked from other businesses out there. And with working with Michael, I realized that I was being taken more seriously. I always doubted myself. And I think what the customers thought of me, oh, just a little dance school. That's probably what I thought in myself. I wasn't that confident. So I think it was the first time that someone looked at the business from an outside perspective and said, You are bigger than you think, and you are professional. And I go, Oh, really?

unknown 6:54

Like, really?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

And we monitored the logo. The logo needed to represent that. So it took, it was, do you know what? He created a logo and we worked on it for a bit, then I decided I didn't like it, and then we changed it. And it was through going through this process that I realized what I wanted, and that's what it took for somebody to give me ideas and for me to go, don't like that. Yes, I do like that, and then find my established brand through that.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, I think I remember we had a conversation um at the time, and one of the logos that you were working on, you were like, hmm, does that feel like two adult classes when actually I'm targeting younger fans? PCA and I did. I was funny that I'm annoying that. Yeah, yeah. I can feel I can equate to that and sort of feel the same. But it is funny how um sometimes you're so sure of what you think you know, and then it takes somebody external or somebody out with the usual setting that you're operating in to kind of break down those barriers, ask you the questions, and suddenly you actually feel more confident being able to say, No, I don't like that because I don't think it represents A, B, and C. And that's exactly what you think from that. That is exactly that, yeah. Okay, and then how do you think it, you know, we talked about, you know, you changed the colours, the messaging, the core values. Do you think that built a more professional brand? So you did touch on that just a minute ago. You said you felt more professional. What does that look like day to day? Like, how do you feel more professional? How did you feel more professional at the time?

SPEAKER_01 8:25

I think it's because I then became more confident with our branding. So when I became confident with the branding, I was then confident with our branding across our website, our social media. So everything looked the same and was the same. Yeah, and it all tied together. And then through that, I kind of established myself and was like, right, this is this is who we are, this is what we represent. And the stronger I came across to parents, I think there was that trust. And do you know what our parents saw that transformation, and I think they saw that in me as the business owner as well. And to anybody new that came in, the new trials coming through the door, the new students, we looked established, and from an outsider's perspective, we looked professional, we were clear, we looked like we knew what we were doing. And it was all through the branding. And I think that's the first tick that made me go, okay, this is who I am now, and I feel more confident with it.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, and I think the kind of the business impact on that, like you say, it's the confidence, it's the trust. And I think that's why brand's such a foundational thing to anybody in business, because first of all, your brand is your customers, you know, perception-wise, it is, you know, what your customers think of you. So, you know, you'd be able to sit down today and ask parents, what is it that you think of Avenue Dance Company? And they'd be able to probably say words like fun, creative, freedom, um, growth, that kind of thing. And that's kind of core values that you can take from parents and then start to build into your brand. And, you know, it's even words that you can use within your social media or across your website. But it's more than just your customers. Yeah, they're they're at the heart of everything. And that's, you know, number one what matters most. But you're actually your brand, and so are your coaches and your teachers and anybody from somebody who might be dealing with admin to the person that posts on your social media to somebody else that teaches a class, they're all representative of your brand. So actually, it becomes this more scalable thing that you're working on, but it's all kind of starting with that seed of, okay, well, I'm now confident and I know who I stand for and I know what I want this business to be. And that's kind of the seed that really helps everything else flourish. And tell me a little bit about what did that allow you to go on to do. And we'll kind of touch on marketing and um profitability and scalability later on. But what was the kind of first thing after that brand was sealed and you had your logo and your core concepts? What were some of the first things that you did beyond just that?

Marketing Consistency And Facebook Ads

SPEAKER_01 10:51

So at that time, I think I was recruiting new dance teachers to come on board. And I was then clearer with my team, the kind of the values that we stand for. If you're coming into our school to teach, I always say to our parents in the schools we work in: no matter which coach you get, we all share the same values within our classes. And that's that was the brand right there. So that's something that implemented straightaway. And actually, we still do now. So when we do our team trainings, one of the slides we do in our team trainings is just reminding everybody of our core values. I like stayed with us. Yeah, and some of them they'll they'll be honest and they go, I don't I don't remember. And I go, Well, you need to remember because if you're not incorporating all of this into your sessions, then that's not Avenue Dance Company or that's not Shining Star. So making sure the whole team is is on the same page with the values. So that's a major thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

It's such a major thing, and I feel so proud of you hearing you speak like that and thinking about the person that first came through when you won level up. And it's not that you weren't confident, but that confidence there is just it's a totally different person that I'm speaking to, and to be able to say, well, I'm actually reminding my staff, well, if you're not doing these things, you're not representing our brand in your classes, and to hear like what your first thoughts and perceptions were of brand, it's logo, it's maybe colours, like actually, no, it's the people and things like that. So if you were to give um, let's let's wrap up on this brand session. You've you've shared some really helpful insights. But if you were to give um listeners and watchers to this three things that they should think about actioning on the back of hearing this, what is it would you that you would advise based on brand and what you've learned?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

So making sure it's more than just the logo, it is you as a as the business owner as well, because leadership reflects, you know, your team, like your and your team reflect everything in the company. So if your team are not, if you have a team, that is, or yourself, um, if you're not a strong leader, then your team aren't gonna follow. And you they say that you are the face of your brand, really, aren't you? Especially as the owner of your brand. And um, it's up to you to enforce that in your team or you know, to your customers or your students, whoever you have. So that's a big thing. Um, social media. Now, this is something that I wasn't I wasn't great with, but our social media, we try and keep it on brand using the same colours, choosing a theme, and it just looks more appealing if you're scrolling down on your feed. And I always think, would you buy from you? So if you wouldn't buy, that's what I always say. If I see a post and I post something up and I say, Would I buy that from me? Yes or no, and um also oh third thing, know your why is something I've always been told, or like I've always said to people, like, why with your business? Why do you have your business? What is it for? So making sure that that comes through in your branding as well. And so ours, our company is for it's for kids. So we're making sure that things that we're putting out there, yes, it's aimed at the adults because they're the ones booking the classes, but making sure it's very kid-friendly. We're doing this for the kids.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah, exactly. Because it's the kids that are gonna want to keep coming back. They're gonna be the ones that go out after classes and be like, I had so much fun today. Whereas if they're saying that it wasn't really fun, that didn't feel welcome, then you know, the parents aren't gonna come back. So you have to think about yes, you're marketing and targeting parents to book into these classes, but ultimately it's the kids that are gonna keep wanting to come back. So um, I think that's some really, really helpful things on brand and the you know, why you exist is really important. Um, so let's move on then to chatting about the kind of social selling and what that looks like now. So you've kind of touched on social media um being like, would I buy from me? And and we kind of describe social media at a class for kids as a shop window. So it gives somebody who's maybe interested and looking at, you know, what is it they have to offer? You can look into the shop window, but you're not setting foot into the shop. So what we need to do is, you know, visually merchandise ourselves, brand ourselves, make ourselves look enticing in order for somebody to come into the shop. So if we're kind of looking at that for dance, it's um somebody coming onto your social media like look of what they do. I can see they've got this type of class, these are the types of teachers that they have, this is what they stand for. So I'm now going to step into the shop or into the school, I'm gonna book a trial. Like that's ultimately like what we want somebody to know, right? Thank you. Um I can't I can't take credit for coining that. I think um it was actually our head of market in sales lee that first taught me that. Um, but it is a really good analogy and it's really healthy to think like that. And that's when you're saying you go back and you do training sessions with your staff. I think it's really important for any business, any role that you're in business to always go back to the core things. So, what do I stand for? Put myself in my customers' shoes, what am I fulfilling for them? And I think that's really healthy. So, like you're doing with your staff, it's always about coming back to that and sort of looking at your socials and thinking, is my shop window enticing enough? Like, does somebody actually want to come in and book a trial? So um, let's chat about. We asked you what you knew about brand, or I asked you what you knew about brand. What did you know about marketing your dance school the four level of?

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Nothing. Well, that's a line, not nothing, but not as much until I enter the contest and I won. Um, marketing for me, I wasn't consistent with it, and it was something where I was like, oh, just put up a post and then expect expect a class to fill. Um and I didn't afford it. I know I didn't know anything about Facebook ads, and I actually was quite old school. I used to go and drop flyers into people's doors, and at the time that worked for a bit, but then we evolved, and everything is online. Um, I'd put some adverts out in the newspaper, and obviously everything went digital, so I I was trying things that I think I knew from a long time ago, from what I saw other people do. Um, and yeah, since then, obviously I I know a lot about marketing, but before, pretty much not much.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

And do you think like that, you know, when you were putting out those ads in flyers or you know, you're putting things in newspapers, or even if you were just putting a post out in social media, like you said, and you expected that class to fill, do you think you felt frustrated when they weren't filling and you weren't seeing any return on the investment that you were making, either from money you were paying probably to put into newspaper ads or just time, you know, that's another thing that's it's it's an investment is your time. Do you think you felt frustrated when you wouldn't see the classes fill or maybe meet your expectations?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Uh yeah, I was I was frustrated. I was like, why is this not working? But instead of thinking, okay, let's try different things, I was just kept doing the same thing and going, right, maybe people aren't online at this time. I'll try posting it tomorrow evening. And I and I was getting annoyed and I was like, What why is this not working? But it took a long time to get to the mindset of okay, we're gonna change the way we do things. Um, and that's all stuff that I've learned through winning this contest. But oh yeah, I would be frustrated just posting once and then nothing happening.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I can I can I can relate to that. Like it is for student when you're trying your hardest as well and you're putting things out and you're not seeing the results. So um let's talk about what you learned then as part of um level up. Like let's chat about um the session that you went through um with our social expert, with our head of marketing, just very roughly. Um, um, and what did you learn? And I'm guessing that mindset is going to be probably one of the things that shifted as a result of those sessions, if you can cast your mind back um three, three and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

So that was with Lee, and we were talking about the marketing that I did, and I used to be a bit of a cheapskate, and I I wouldn't spend, I wouldn't really spend money on marketing where I could help it. I'd get a Hubble of flyers printed, and then the rest of it would just be like free posting on social media and groups and stuff, and and I realized that sometimes you do have to invest, and that's something that Lee helped with with the Facebook ads. You do have to invest, and I learnt into a whole new world of Facebook ads. I didn't really know how they worked, but put up a post, I think, for a good month. We did some marketing on Facebook for a month, and then suddenly people were coming in, and it wasn't just post for one day, and that's it, one day of ads. It was like you've got to be consistent with those ads, and in turn, then you'll get the traction.

Content Strategy Reels And Trends

SPEAKER_00 19:49

You've got to leave it. Consistency long enough. Consistency is key. You need to warm people up, so they're not just gonna book into your class as soon as they see either if you're posting organically on social or if you're paying for your advertising, they're not just gonna go, yeah, that's me booked in. They have to see it like a few times in order to be like, I keep seeing this, I'm interested. And then that's where the shop window matters. Because then they click onto your profile on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it is, and then they say, Okay, this looks a little bit different. This looks like a bit of me, like I'm interested in that. And you know, I can see the kids are having fun. So I think that consistency and warming, warming, you know, prospects up is a key thing that you've just mentioned there. Um, and what do you think about then in terms of how do you structure your advertising now when it comes to marketing? You know, do you have content pillars for posting on your social media, like that type of thing? How do you structure it now?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

We've been through phases, different things. As you say, we're evolving, things are changing constantly. So we did do content pillars for a while, and actually, this is something that you, Rebecca, helped me during this process. You told me about the content pillars, and I think we for a while we had Motivation Mondays where we put up a little quote, and then we had Teen Tuesdays. We have these different change days, but after a while, we were doing it for probably about a year, and then it kind of the novelty wore off a little bit, so then you've got to have a little bit of a revamp. Then it got to a point where reels became the thing, and they still are now. So it's not enough just to post a photo anymore. If you've got a reel, that's where you get the most engagement. So now we've still got Monday motivations here and there, um, but we're making things more into reels. And when we've got something coming up, like a camp or a workshop, then we're heavily marketing that. Now, back in the day, I used to maybe post once in a month about that thing. Well, now it's constant reminders. Not only are we posting on the feed, we're posting on stories as well. We're putting links in there. And the biggest thing that we've come to realize is that, like you say with the shop window, customers want to see the proof. They want to see how full our classes are. They want to see what the children are learning so that they can go, oh my goodness, I love my child to be a part of that. If we're just putting up some photos with loads of text, it's just not, it's just not working anymore. No, so we're always learning.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, your content needs to convince people. So and and like you say, I would argue that social media probably evolves. And in fact, I wouldn't even argue, I would say it definitely is true that it evolves so much quicker. Like your brand will be evolving with you, you know, throughout the rest of the time that you own a new dance company, but social media is evolving every day. And we have things like AI changing the way that that thing as well. So um, yeah, social media, you have to be on it. Like you can't ever um rest on your laurels, like with that, it has to be constantly digging into your analytics, what's working, what got engagement, what got saves. Okay, that really worked. And you know what? I always say this to people and they forget about it. Like, obviously, not reposting something the day after or the week after, going back over old posts that got really good engagement. There's never any harm in resharing those types of things and changing the caption up a little bit, and also what you said about um really going hard when there's like seasonal periods, so camps, workshops around holiday periods. And I always say, um, particularly it works well for dance and performing arts, but you know, when there's there's things out in the theatres or things that are coming out in the cinema, like do workshops on the back of that for a weekend. You don't have to just box yourself into you know Easter and Christmas and October. Like, there's so many more revenue opportunities that you can capitalize on and using your socials to really push that messaging. Get somebody in once, and if they like what you do, they'll keep coming back.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, exactly. That or like going back to the popular things, Wicked, when Wicked came out. Oh, you've got to. This is the thing. As much as people try not to, some people don't like the trends, some people don't like following the trends. I'm sorry, but if you want to thrive in business, sometimes you've got to jump on a trend. When K-pop demon hunters came out, we filled, I think, six days of K-pop demon hunters workshops with like 30 kids in each day. And off the back of that, those children have been since some of them have joined our school, like weekly classes. So if you're putting things out there that people are loving, that's what's going to get eyeballs on your business.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Exactly. And that becomes part of your strategy because you're now going, well, K-pop demon hunters got this. This is how many people came to over the six days. And actually, we've retained 5% of that. You know, they're now in weekly classes. Okay, we did the same with Wicked, and 10% are back. So you can now plan seasonally, yeah. Okay, we've got camps and workshops running here, but we know there will be maybe two to three trends happening across the years that we're going to slot in and get an extra 15% coming into the classes every week. So you can now rely on that as part of your business strategy. So I do think I understand why people sometimes don't want to fall into that trend, but there's a way that you can make it unique to your school or to your business, and then also capitalise on it from a revenue perspective because what you rightly said was that you used to think of yourself as just a dance school owner, but actually you're a business owner first. And I think that's the way to get to the mindset of people, putting that business hat on and being like, still want to be unique, I still want to do it, and that's where the core brand values and your USP comes into play. So, yeah, you might not want to do something exactly the same as the way it is, but how can you make it different? How can you capitalize on it? Um, I think it's what we need to get to the bottom of. Um, so what so was it's a kind of I've got the three C's, I've got clarity, consistency, and confidence. Do you think those are probably the three main things you've taken away from kind of the marketing and the social selling side of things?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Absolutely, and definitely consistency. Yeah, there are there are loads of um data to suggest like the more you're posting, the more you're showing up in people's feeds. So definitely, and confidence, confidence with your branding and clarity, get clear on the message you're trying to get across with each of your posts or your stories put out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

I love it. Well, that is that kind of your advice to anybody that's watching or listening this, just to be clearer, sort of confident and consistent with what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yes, but also if you can, if your business allows you to, also be vulnerable because some of the posts that have performed really well and I've probably had the most engagement. I put up a photo of me at our Christmas show one year with a golf ball on the side of my my face because I had my wisdom tooth out and another tooth, like literally two days as an emergency before the show. And I put up a bulb post about it saying I'm I'm the one that's always on it. And on this day, I showed up to an event and I could barely speak. And I think that got the most likes that we've in a while.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

We touched on it like you know, back back a minute ago, but it is it's people buy into the person behind the brands, like you are the face of your brand. People will connect and go, Oh gosh, like Lauren, like how what's happened, like that type of thing. And that's the kind of emotion and empathy side of us as humans connecting with another person behind a brand because your brand isn't just your logo and colours, it's the people, as we kind of talked on already.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

And we are human, we go through hardships as well. And I think if people see that, they can either relate or go, oh wow, like you know, you don't have to be on it all the time. And if you have those vulnerable moments, your business seems more real, and people just connect with you in that way. So yeah, share something about it.

Delegation And Building A Team

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I suppose something you had to have that done, though. That sounds like an absolute horror story, like that sounds awful. So I'm not about it, but it shows how being the person and leading the brand and putting that element of vulnerability out there. That's a really good point that I've never thought of about that kind of being vulnerable, and how do you practice that? So I think that'll be something very interesting for people to take away. Um, and then the final kind of sections that you would have gone on to, I guess, is kind of looking at the profitability and scalability and stepping back from the business. Now, um, I think Louise would probably have been pivotal um to that side of things. So, you know, how did you manage your business before going through level up and working alongside, you know, Louise was kind of the partner that we worked with in your space once we knew it was um you who had won, we'd picked a dance expert. Um, what was the process you had for managing your business? And then what was your mindset like at that time as well?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

So before winning the contest, oh, I did everything. I was wearing so many hats, but at the same time, I was really complacent. I just kind of just like, yeah, the business will just grow, it'll do its own thing. I wasn't, I'm I was a very different person to who I am now. Um, I would just kind of roll out of bed and be like, oh, our classes start in the afternoon, I'll do some antheming there and then, and anything that came up, I dealt with it there and then, rather than having any kind of strategy into what I was doing for the weeks. So when I won the contest and I spoke to Louise and she said, Who have you got replying to your emails? Who have you got in charge of this, this, this, this? And I was like, Me. And she was like, Oh, Lauren.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Oh no. I bet you look back, I bet you look back at past Lauren and you go, Oh, Lauren, I bet you know how to react.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

I do. And don't get me wrong, there are still so many things that I do, but I know what I'm working on now, and I know what's my job and what I've delegated. So Louise taught me the art of delegation, and she said to bring on somebody to come on board with some admin. And I was like, No, no, no, I'm too much of a control freak. Like, I have to do everything because this sounds really like arrogant, but I was in that mindset of nobody can do it like I can.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

It's not arrogant, it is when you own a business and you're the only person doing things, it is like, no, but they might not use this word in an email, or they might pull this or they might do it differently. So, yeah, I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Exactly that. They won't, oh, they might not say it like how I would say it. And oh my goodness, what if they have a spelling mistake in the email? Like, oh, and I just I had to Louise taught me to just I have to delegate, otherwise, the business was not going to grow because my arms were being pulled in so many different directions that I it just got too much, and then I was slipping on things, so I had to invest. Now I was also worried about money and profit and eating into the profits to bring somebody on. And when I did, I was like, oh my gosh, can I afford this person? But actually, bringing on that person freed up more of my time to focus on the bigger things, and as a result, the business did bring in more money. It's like Richard Rampson always says he brings in people to work on the things that maybe he doesn't enjoy or he's not very good at himself. There are things that social media for me was not something I was good at or enjoyed doing. So, in bringing someone else on to do that, actually, our socials thrived, and then more people were coming through the door, so I could afford to pay this person. So, um, yeah, I was doing everything before the contest, but now, since winning, I've learned over the years to delegate, and now I've got people in different roles helping with different parts of the business.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

So we've gone from just you. How many people are we up to now? Um, I guess it might be harder for you to calculate across both businesses, but how many do you reckon if you were to give it a stab in the dark? Admin-wise or like team in general? Across the team in general, your teachers, your social person, admin-wise, how many people? 24. 24. So I mean, that is that is amazing. Like going from no, I can't do it, I can't let them guess to put a typo in that email, or they don't see it like I do to now 24 people. Like that is honestly, that's insane. It's insane. That's teachers as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

But in terms of admin behind the scenes, we've got one, two, three, four, five. Five just on admin, and the rest are teachers and team.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

That is the fact that you were doing it all yourself, and now you have five people, and I bet you still fill your days. And yes, Robbie Ellen, it's because you've stepped back from the business rather than working like sort of in it every day that you're able to think about things differently. But I bet you now have time to just go and have a coffee or go and think about the business in a different setting and think about okay, what's next? Whereas before, you would never have had the time to do that.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

No, you just And don't get me wrong, there are still days if I've got mad things coming up and things are going wrong, like touch wood, nothing goes wrong today. But if there's you know, teen falling apart, they're ill or whatever, and I'm running around like a headless chicken as well. But then there's some days where I think, now what? Now now what do I? I've done my talk today. Okay, uh and then I'm like, I'll go and take a break and then I'll come back and then I'll work on something else. So I do have more thinking time and more headspace to work on.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

And yeah, you have to remember that you know, not boxing yourself into like a must think and be creative in this and setting, like you know, going out for a walk, listening to a podcast and thinking creatively that way, or going out for a coffee and sitting in a different environment. You can plan for your business in any space or place and not have to be boxed in because you've got to be there to answer the phone in case it goes off, or be there in case an email comes in because now you have that team. So you're able to think about the business and just or the businesses in a whole new level. And talk to me a little bit about um how do you feel your time is split now between running the two businesses? Like, do you have to wear different hats if you're planning for Avenue Dance Company versus Shining Stars? Like, how does that work?

Running Two Schools With Strategy

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I do, and this is something that's taken a long time. So I acquired it in September 2024, we're now in March 2026, and it's taken me a while because Avenue Dance Company is a lot bigger. So we are currently under 500 students with Avenue, but with Shining Star, we're at about 50. So it's a lot smaller. So I still find that most of my time is being taken up by Avenue. Um, and then it's trying to find time to allow myself a couple of hours throughout the week to focus on Shining Star. So it got to the point where I was actually being stretched thin again. So I've just recently in January taken on an assistant manager for Shining Star. So now she has the headspace to come up with ideas and help with that with me. So throughout the days, it depends what's coming up. If I've got something I need to work on with Shining Star, I'll dedicate more hours to that on one of the days. Whereas Avenue, I've got four um admin members working on that business. So I can trust that things are being done, then I can step away to focus on Shining Star. But it's still trying to find that balance, but it is a more difficult balance because the two companies are one's bigger than the other.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

But so do you feel like in some ways you are almost back to the start of Avenue Dance, except you're now much more competent and you know what brand is, but you're like, right, how do I grow this business? What's the strategy? But you can now take the learnings not just from level up, but from like, you know, owning your business and being a different person now. How has that sort of helped shape decision making and strategy for Shining Star?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Oh, I'm a lot quicker with making decisions and I know what I need. I know what I need now, and you're right, it's like starting from scratch. Essentially, when I took over, actually, loads of the students left before giving me a chance to come in. And I think it's that, oh, we're the only leaving, we're leaving now too. So I've essentially had to start from yeah, start from the beginning, and I did a complete rebrand of the company to make it feel more like me, and I was more confident with the branding on this one. When it came to designing the Lego, I was like, right, I want this, and now I know what colours I love it. I was like a different person with this school, and I and I know what works and what doesn't work from trialing and testing it with Avenue. So everything I've learned over the past however many years of running Avenue and since winning this contest, I'm now applying it to Shining Star. So we're doing Facebook ads, we're doing all sorts now, and we're now building it up and we're getting the students in. I think we're now so established with this new branding that it's finally, it's finally working.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

And like you say, it takes time and it takes consistency, and even it's only the beginning of March. So it's not even as if we're, you know, you purchased it. Was it do you say January when you kind of did the sort of rebrand and everything like that there?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Or so the rebrand we did last year. I'm trying to think when we did the rebrand. Um, but because we've had to almost start the branding again on social media, at first it was uh like, what are they doing? But now if you look on our socials, you can see the clear branding. We've had loads of photos and and everything kind of over the past, however long, with the new branding that people can now see it. And now we're we're putting reels out there for marketing, and people are coming through the door after seeing the the students that we now have with our like full classes now. So yeah, it's all it's taken its time. I love it. It's this year it's all all going well.

Growth Systems And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Yeah, and it feels like you've got a clear strategy. So if somebody's sitting here and they're they're listening to this or watching it and they're thinking, I would love to stop managing everything myself. What would your first what would your top three tips be to start delegating? What would your top three things you would see? Either task-wise or is it hiring a person? What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 37:35

So look at the tasks that you are spending most of your time doing. And are they tasks that you can hand over to someone else, or does it have to be you? For example, with emails, you don't have to be replying to the emails. You can bring somebody on and start them off really small. Start them off on, I think I first started my admin off on five hours a week, really small. And some people go, Well, how do I still feel five hours a week? Emails can take five hours a week. Um, so look at the tasks that you either don't enjoy or you don't need to be doing and delegate them to somebody else. But you've so with that, taking somebody on, just putting it out there, see who'd be interested, start them off on less hours, and then you can build those hours up. And if you're thinking about the money side of things, the money will come in by bringing on someone else to take more off your plate because then it gives you the time to focus on the 100-pound tasks that you need to be doing. And it does involve the owner doing. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

And and the final question, then, Lauren, if somebody's sitting there and you know, you've got a wealth of experience now in growing a business, say they're like, right, I'm inspired by this and I want to grow. And that could mean, you know, many different things. It could mean personal growth, it could mean growing the student numbers. Um, what would you say would be the sort of first things to do within, you know, let's say a two-month time period? You know, you talked about social media, you talked about the importance of branding, about your staff being on board with you. What would you say are kind of let's say your top three things are working the rules of three? So let's go with three things in sort of a two-month period to get your business growing. What would you recommend doing first?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Make sure you have an automated system. Class for kids being an example. I didn't know you could say that. No, you did not, I swear. But it's uh it's massively, you know, increased the growth of our school because if you've got all of that automated, that's one thing that's kind of working itself out. You know, you've got a system that people can find you on and they can book on. So having automated systems, staff, bringing on staff members in order for you to grow, and also a strategy of where you're looking to grow in what areas of the business and why. Are you growing just to make more money or are you growing to serve a purpose? So looking at so all of those three. So the strategy, the automated systems, and auditing staff. Do you need more staff to grow?

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Perfect, Lauren. Well, it's been great catching off. And I genuinely mean it when I say I am so proud of you, and not just because of level up, but being able to be confident in your decisions, knowing what you want, owning another business. Like genuinely, I mean, it's not that we didn't think about it when you won level up, but where you are now, like you said, you're a totally different person. And it's just so lovely to see and and to be part, you know, a small part of that process and supporting you, you know, learn more, be more confident, and as a result of the sessions that you've had with people, it's just been a great um thing to see. And we're absolutely delighted to be um obviously your booking software that you use and to be part of that and supporting that as well. So um, thank you so much for taking the time to catch up with us today. Um and I'm sure it will not be long before we have you back on um in a few months and maybe get you up to Glasgow and hear more about what you're up to. So, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, bye.