EP 49: Dance Work Deserves Credit

A dance school can look effortless from the outside. Behind the scenes it is planning, payroll, safeguarding, parent messages, class schedules, staff cover, marketing, and the emotional load of caring about every kid who walks through the door. That’s why we invited Hazel, founder of Glasgow Dance Academy, to talk about the Scottish Dance Awards and the bigger mission underneath it: giving Scotland’s dance teachers and dance business owners real visibility and recognition for work that too often gets dismissed as “just a hobby."

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Transcript

Welcome To The Scottish Dance Awards

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hazel, welcome to the Classic Kids Studio. How are you doing today? Thank you. I'm great, thanks. You are the founder and owner of Glasgow Dance Academy Academy, and you also are the founder of the Scottish Dance Awards, which are fast approaching.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Yeah, aha, so pretty busy at the moment, but um yeah, we're about a month away from the awards, and yeah, it's just that exciting time where everything's really coming together and um yeah, just building, building towards the 3rd of May.

Why Hazel Started The Awards

SPEAKER_01 0:35

So we're going to chat a little bit about the Scottish Dance Awards today because we're a sponsor of the Scottish Dance Awards and we would like to do a little bit of a feature piece on what the Scottish Dance Awards stand for, how they're going, what plans are for the future for the Scottish Dance Awards, and maybe something more beyond that. So let's kick off with the first question. So, what inspired you to start the Scottish Dance Awards and how has that vision evolved since kind of first conception to now?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

So I think really I was looking to kind of create something that was meaningful for the Scottish dance community, bigger than anything I'd I'd done before. And I had seen awards and similar events in other industries and the impact that that had had. And I came to the realization that there was nothing like that for the dance industry, and that's really where the idea started to grow that I wanted to create this platform for the Scottish dance community that would give them visibility and recognition.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Because there's nothing like, I mean, I've worked at class for kids in kind of the kids activity industry for six and a half years now, and there's nothing else really in this space that represents this community, you know, like dance, performing arts, that kind of thing. I think this is the first of its kind.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I kept for about a year I just kept thinking there must be something like this, and and there wasn't, so I decided to take matters into my own hands and just um yeah, I could see that it would I had quite a strong vision for it and I could see what would become.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So And what was the kind of inspiration behind starting it then? Because you kind of said that there's there's nothing of this kind of thing. Did you feel that there just wasn't representation to celebrate the amazing work of all of the different, you know, dance schools and dance owners in the in Scotland?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, I think as well. So I've run my own dance school now for over 10 years, so I know acutely what work goes into that, and I just see these dance teachers, these dance schools running their businesses, and I know what that takes, and so often it's overlooked. Even as an industry, I think it's not really uh recognised sometimes as as real work. So I wanted to yeah, just to to showcase that.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, it's hard. I think sometimes when I've spoken to sort of dance business owners and dance teachers in the past, it's almost like they can't come out with the mindset of it being a hobby and realise that they're actually a business owner, first of all. So I guess by having this award ceremony, there's a bit more of an emphasis placed on there's something to be celebrated here. And yes, maybe it started out as a hobby, but actually you've taken it to beyond that and something into the the next level.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, like you say, it starts from an interest. Maybe you've trained as a dancer, worked as a dancer, and that's maybe why you get into it initially, but then the reality is that you need it to run well as a business to sustain it and to keep the doors open. So that was definitely a shift that I had to make. Um, and you can do both, you can still enjoy it and you can run it as you know, a real passion project, but it is you need all of the parts to work together.

Launching From Zero And Proving Value

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I think the key word for that is really it's evolving, like it's constantly evolving. Nothing kind of stays, nothing good stays the same forever, you know, things change and they evolve, and it's the next chapter, I think. And it's just like being on board with that. That yes, it might have started out as this, but actually, like you're saying, in order to sustain it, make it profitable. Like that's you know, you need a profit to be able to keep your doors open to hire staff to move into new locations, like that type of thing. I think just being open to that evolution and you know, what does that look like? And I guess that kind of brings us on partly to the next question around what kept you motivated to launch the Scottish Dance Awards? Because I can imagine that yes, you've had this idea, but what's the reality of getting that off the ground and running? So if you cast your mind back, I'm probably gonna assume about two years ago from when you first had this idea. Talk me through the different stages and actually to get this off the ground. And how did you stay motivated during that time?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, you're right. I mean, that was definitely uh the hardest part was starting from zero and trying to convince people of something that was just an idea at the time. Um I I was clear on what I wanted it to be, and I knew if I could speak to the right people that they would be on board. And I think as well in Scotland, people are very good at sensing when something is authentic. And um luckily I managed to to speak to lots of people that maybe I'd worked with or knew, and word just spread really quickly. Um, I'm also quite a determined person, and if I decide I'm gonna do something, I you know. Wholeheartedly give it a best shot. I go full in, and I think as well, I you know, when you've got reputational skin in the game is something I think about a lot because it really holds you to it. So there I was gonna make it work regardless. Um and then it comes down to a point where you just need to take a chance and trust that you know you will create something great and people will want to be involved. And within the first three months of opening applications on year one, we had over 500 applications, and that was just oh that was it was just encouraging and showed that the dance community was ready for something like this.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

And what do you think the biggest challenge was in getting these dance awards off the ground and running?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

I well, I think um making sure that I wasn't going to waste anybody's time. I often think about how time it's my most important resource. And if I was going to ask people to engage with these awards, write applications, attend the event, it had to be valuable for them. So maybe that's more of a pressure that I put on myself, but it was certainly something that was really important and kind of rooted in the the foundations of it all.

Dance School Values And Real Impact

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yeah, I think there's a saying like time is a currency, you know. For sure. Like, you know, you're investing your own time, but also how are other people investing time into what you're doing? And is there this kind of you know ecosystem of return for each of you? I think it's important. Yeah, um so obviously we touched on the start of the interview you own the Glasgow Dance Academy. So you've been a dance teacher, you own this business, you've been opening, expanding across locations within and around Glasgow. So, how has your own personal experience of being a dancer, a dance teacher, helped shape the values behind the Scottish Dance Awards?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, oh I think it's been so important. So I have run my own dance school now for 10 years, and so I understand what goes on behind the scenes. I know it's important to schools and to teachers, and um that really is who the audience is for the Scottish Dance Awards. So I had that dance background, and then I'm also qualified as a teacher in an educational setting. So I feel I had this sort of unique positioning where I could understand both industries and kind of pull it together. Um and then, yeah, my values, I suppose, from from the way I was brought up, and then training and working as a dancer, it kind of cements in you resilience, work ethic, honesty, drive, ambition, and um I suppose I I try and bring that into everything that I do and the awards hopefully is a reflection of those values.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Well, but go on to touch on that. I think you know, from what I can hear and from our conversations before, sort of sitting down in this podcast, that's definitely sort of amplified with what's coming next for you, but we'll touch on that in a minute. Um, but what impact have you seen this have on the dance community within Scotland, within within dance teachers that you know? What's the kind of impact that you and the Scottish Dance Awards sort of collectively have had? What have you kind of seen from feedback, seen from the night of the event, seeing within applications? Like what kind of things are we are we seeing that are common themes?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

So I would say the biggest thing is is visibility and and creating that platform for people for the work that they're doing. But uh more specifically, you know, even just after the awards, we had so many schools and attendees just emailed to say what a great event it was and how much they enjoyed the process. Even people that weren't winners on the night, which I was really surprised from. I thought, oh no, if people don't win, they're never gonna want to come back, but it's bigger than that. Um and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

I think we were we were chatting about this sort of internally um as part of the access group. There's different awards that people can go for, um, like as in like companies that we work with, you know, Design My Night might be one that people are familiar with. There's that website that you can go on and look at what you want to do. You want to go to Edinburgh, you want to do this kind of activity. And they were talking about getting shortlisted for an award within Europe. So nothing to do with internal awards, but it's external facing. And we were saying, like, you know, to even be shortlisted for an award is like an accolade for you to wear with pride. So when you're talking about people not winning, it's not always about that. It's the fact that you were shortlisted and you were thought of to be within that category and you were there with some amazing people, maybe that you aspire to be like, and it's lovely to win, right? We all like that, but it's not always about that, it's about being recognized, feeling recognized for your work, and then it's about being with that community on that night, celebrating really everybody and all of the wonderful work. Because if it wasn't for them, there wouldn't be a room full of people, right? So it's not always about winning, it's about sort of recognising everybody's work, everybody's achievement. And I always think if it's not your time to win, there's you know, there's things that are just gonna come for you that are gonna be so much better and I'll put you into that winner's category. Maybe not next year, but maybe the year after.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

So yeah, or even I think sometimes the the applicant or the school that's applied, I think something that we need to get better at is acknowledging that the work that we're doing has value. So I've seen even from year one to year two, the the I suppose people now understand more what the awards is about, but the quality of applications, the number of applications that came in, you know, was way higher because, well, from from from the experience of year one. So I just hope to build on that and um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

What what would you say makes a what makes for a winning application? Because this might be a nice bit of information for people who are maybe thinking about applying for Scottish Dance Awards in the future, maybe something else that we'll talk about in a minute, um sort of further afield. What do you think makes a winning application?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Oh, a winning application, I think it's about it's not so much about how you are writing, but what you are writing about. So how you are demonstrating excellence in your category, being very clear about that. And we we have another part of the application where you can upload supporting evidence, so you can upload videos or socials, and that gives a real snapshot into the culture of a school or or the work that's going on. So I would say to be clear in what you're doing and um yeah, lots of examples of of the work that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

There we go. So if you're listening or watching this, or maybe if you're reading in the interview that we're doing with Hazel, that's kind of the top tips for a winning application. And I think that kind of evidence piece is always just so powerful because you can write about it and you can try and tell somebody about it, but sometimes visually just been able to kind of see into that kind of shop window of what's happening in that school is just the thing that kind of seems to deal. Perfect. Um, so how what defines success for you for the Scottish Dance Awards and kind of what moments best represent that? So can you think about it for you personally? What's your kind of been where you stood back and you thought, wow, like I've made someone amazing, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Um I think success is really for anyone that's engaging with the awards, it it's the value that they get from it. So, again, like I'm saying, about giving up the time or the attention to it, if they feel like they have gained something, if they've won or not, even just being a part of that community on the night and connecting and seeing people, um, old teachers or colleagues, and just discussing how things are, how the land lies in the Scottish dance community is is what's important, and I I just love seeing everybody coming together, and there's so many crossovers and people that know each other, it really is a small, a small world. Um, so that's always exciting. The kind of just before the awards kick off when everyone's together. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, I've not experienced it yet because I was on Mat Leaf last year, but I will be coming this year. So I'm excited to kind of see that kind of snapshot behind the curtain almost of what that looks like. Um, what would you say makes the Scottish Dance Awards or the Scottish dance scene actually? Let's look at that separately because you're kind of talking about the community and bringing that together. What would you say makes the Scottish dance community unique and and how does you know the award ceremony celebrate that?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I think, well, do you know? I feel like I've seen a bit of a shift recently in the Scottish dance community, where I don't know, the culture is kind of changing, and I see people being more open and vulnerable with other dance business owners and teachers, and just being open about what the struggles are, what the challenges are, and offering advice and help um about what's worked or what hasn't worked. And I think that kind of reflects Scottish culture, which is being open and friendly and funny. I can't forget the most important and gorgeous. Um yeah, I just I want to kind of build on that, and it's refreshing to see that in a community that is often competitive.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I feel sometimes as well. It's almost like I don't want you to know what I'm up to because you try and copy me and steal my idea, like that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

And it it's just so not like that. In fact, when I opened the last dance school that I opened, the last location that I opened for my dance school at the start of the year, someone said to me, Oh, did you uh research if there was other dance schools around? And I said, Well, not really. I mean, I knew from other venues that I'd looked at if they were occupied by a dance school, I was vaguely on my radar that they were near, but I thought it it doesn't really matter because every dance school will offer something different and you you can't copy someone, and I just always think that the cream rises, so if you're doing good work, it's it's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Oh, I like that. I've not heard of that phrase before the cream rises.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah, my sister always says that.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

I love it. We talk about different phrases across Scotland, it always happens that there's different ones, but I think it is right, it's about you might you know you might have on your radar that yes, there will be other dance schools there for sure. I'm not gonna be the only one, but it is that kind of thing, like your brand and what you stand for are the things that make you different, and ultimately it's word of mouth, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Like within this space, like so much still. I mean, I know there's lots of other ways to get your name out there now with social media, it's great and everything, but still so many of our um new students that come through as a friend or it's a cousin or a heard or a mum told me about you, and it's just if you do good work it spreads and people people talk about it and um and there's e-word of mouth as well, which is basically like forums, like within probably channels like Facebook, where it's like you know, community groups and things like that.

The 40-Year Dance School Moment

SPEAKER_01 16:00

You'll often see people asking, like, my daughter is such and such age is looking to go to dance, like and and that's where you get a lot of your recommendations if you're on like Facebook groups by local areas. That's probably a tip for you to look out for as well. Um so thinking about everything that Scottish Dance Awards has been and has celebrated, are there any standout stories from past winners that stick with you and and what is it about those stories or story that stuck with you?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, I think um do you know the the last award of the night is our biggest award, which is Dance School of the Year, and that's the one that we get the most applications in for. So we keep it till the end just to really keep people engaged, drag it out. Um but the winner of that was um a dance school that had been running for over 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

I know, and I I mean I've run for 10 years and I've made a song and dance about that. I can't imagine the work that must go into running a dance.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

And passion, like the motivation to keep it running as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Uh-huh. And this is before before public recognition, before social media, before awards. Um, and it just made me think about the work day in, day out, that even just for a business, not even specifically a dance school, but that must have to go in. And it made me feel quite proud in that moment because I remember the director's reaction when she won. She was it was so emotional. Makes me emotional thinking about it. Um, and I just felt really proud that we had created something that is giving that recognition and then the ripple effect that that will have. Um, and I think it it makes me think about um, I love the line, what are you willing to do when no one is clapping? And I think that kind of demonstrated that all those years of work, years and years and years of work, um and to be able to get that kind of recognition that she probably so well deserves and you know, there's so much.

Fair Judging And Stronger Applications

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Or wasn't even doing it for in the first place. Yeah, and she was doing it for the kids like that. And that's what we forget sometimes when we're talking about sort of dance schools, any activity that we work across about the business stuff, but you often forget that the teachers and the people that own these businesses, the reason they do it is that they want kids to often have a place where they can come and feel safe, where there's nurture and education outside of you know, very strict routines within school and after school or before school clubs, and this is kind of the space sometimes that they come to to just be them and not have to worry about homework or if they're in certain classes at certain times. It is literally just this is a space where I can just come and forget everything for a lot of kids, you know, for a lot of clubs that we speak to, it is that kind of mind-release space of I'm just focused on dance and that kind of thing. So it is really nice to be able to celebrate somebody who's you know been through many trials and tribulations of what this world has to offer us. You know, COVID was the one that's most recent for us, but what else have they been through? They've been through having to get used to social media, social media being a thing, people talking about people on social media, like all of these different things they've had to navigate through. I mean, yeah, I can't really think back like what else was going on 40 years ago. We're too young. Yeah, we're too young. I know I didn't want to say that, but yes, I am too young to remember that. But you know, there'll be many things that that that person that school has had to navigate through. Yeah, you know, it gives a real inspiration for whomever will be the next winner of that award category. So let's touch very quickly on the judging process and how do you ensure fairness? Because you know, people watching, listening, reading the article might be wondering, right, okay, well, these are the awards, but how do I make sure you know this is going to be a fair process? What's your your process for it?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah, so um this is so important, and I take great responsibility in making sure that our judging is transparent and fair. Um, a lot of it is down to who the judges are, so they are experts within their industry, they have lots of knowledge and experience, but I think importantly, they have reputational um responsibility, and what I think that means is that they are very uh focused on making sure the right person is awarded. And yes, we have criteria that the awards are marked against and they're scored against, and we have feedback and the supporting evidence. Sometimes the judges come back with questions and for applicants if they feel like something is missing. But we talk a lot, so I'm not a judge, I just kind of facilitate it all, but when we're speaking with the judging panel, I talk about having a kind of holistic view of the applicant because going back to how do you write a good application, I often think, well, maybe in the dance community, writing isn't always the number one strength. It certainly wasn't for me. I find that hard, and so sometimes it feels unfair to mark against that. So we try and look through what is actually written or how it's written, it's not about how well that's done, but what it is that they're showing. Um and that's where we can kind of drill down to the real value.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

And do you think there's ever room for, and you might do this already, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in the future for because you're right, not everybody will be a writer, and it's sometimes really hard to try and get out what you're trying to say. Do you have things like video applications where somebody can sort of sit in front of the camera and sort of give their reason for wanting to win, or do you think that's something you'd be open to in the future?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah, no, do you know we don't, but I I would happily take a video um application. I suppose they they could do that with uploading a video as they're supporting evidence as long as they answered the questions that were there. Um I don't see why it's just opening that door to people.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, and it's just feeling like okay, I could actually say what I wanted to see, but actually writing it like, oh, how do I say that? Because some people will write very differently to how they speak and and vice versa. So that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Um stay tuned for next year.

UK Dance Awards Expansion Plans

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Stay tuned for next year. Well, that brings us nicely on to where we see Scottish Dance Awards going next and what future opportunities excite you because there's lots to come.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Yeah, there is. So um, well, with Scottish Dance Awards, I mean I just want it to grow in in value, not just in size, you know. Um, it's important whoever is applying. Whether it's for industry recognition or personal achievement or motivation for their team or whatever the reason is, it has to be valuable. So that's really important. And yeah, just could continue to build year on year. And then, yeah, an exciting expansion is that later this year I am launching the UK Dance Awards. Exciting!

SPEAKER_01 22:25

We've gone from Scotland, we've gone UK wide, covering all the countries. Not even gone right. We'll try, we'll try England, we'll try Ireland, we'll try Scotland, just bringing up all into one, Wales. Like you're like, no, no, all into one. So where are the UK dance awards taking place? Because this is a very, very exciting location. It is, yes. So we're gonna be in Covent Garden in London. That is just we were chatting on the podcast or before the podcast, and like that is just like that's like theatre, it's magic, it's like all this amazing stuff, and right in the centre of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

In October. In October, yeah, 4th of October. So applications are still open at the moment, um, and they'll be closing early May. And yeah, can't wait to go to London and celebrate, and just to kind of scale up from the Scottish Dance Awards, there was such um a great response from them, and just I I had lots of people contact me asking if there was anything they could get involved with out with Scotland, which at the time there wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

But I mean, you've had a staggering number of applications. I don't know if you want to talk about the numbers, but that is a staggering amount for the UK. Like that is pretty impressive. So we'll maybe not talk to that right now, but wow, wow, wow. Like if you're listening, watching, reading, and it's before the early May, get your application in because it's going to be a great night. Yeah, yeah. Like in the heart of London and the heart of theatre lives the UK dance awards hosted by our very own Hazel. It's amazing. I can't wait to see uh what that looks like, the success that it brings, the recognition, not only for the dance schools around the UK, but also for you to be able to step back. Because we were chatting about how Covent Garden for you was almost this place of going for editions and things.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Dread rejection dread, and it is that it is because you would go to Pineapple or wherever you were for your editions, queue down the street, wait for hours, so much effort to go to an edition, and you know, when you had no money, even like your your fare to get there was was scraped together, and you get cut within 10 minutes and you think, Great, like what? And that just happened well, that's the way it is in this industry. You're rejected ten times more than you ever get.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Um rejections, redirection, that's what I believe. Yeah, I loved that. It's just you've you've gone, you've done that, reject rejected in some cases, you come away, you've built something amazing, and now you're back and being like, Well, come and garden, move aside because I'm coming with my own awards.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And do you know what I always think? See, back then when I was, I don't know how old I was, 18, if someone had said here is a snapshot in how long ago was that? I don't know how 20 years time. This is like you're gonna do it, you wouldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

That's that's the thing, is that you wouldn't, you'd be like me hosting an award show and like how would I get there?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

How would I get there?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

But it's but hard work, resilience, determination, all the things that you said these awards stand for is what's ultimately resulted in this.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

I know and hindsight's a great thing. I remember um Stephen as well when I was talking to him when I launched the Scottish Dance Awards, and I remember thinking that it wasn't until I'd kind of done it and looked back, I thought, oh, everything actually was kind of leading to this point, and I'm like the right person to be doing this, but it's not until-scary though when you're like, oh gosh, like I'm the right person for this.

How Class For Kids Frees Time

SPEAKER_01 25:25

I know it's me now, I have to be in charge. No, I know, I was like, oh no, it's like I had the idea, like I don't want to be in charge, but who you are, you're a you know, second year of Scottish Dance Awards, UK dance awards pending, and you know what's beyond the UK, like that's all I'm gonna say, who knows? Um and the very lastly, how has Class for Kids kind of supported you um with the Glasgow Dance Academy, so the dance school that you own, allowing you to to free up time, I guess, to work on projects like the you know, Scottish Dance Awards, UK Dance Awards?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah, I mean anything that gives me back time is uh key. And Class for Kids, I've been a customer with Class for Kids for years before any awards were even an idea. Um it just reduces admin, streamlines processes, allows my team to kind of take over. It lets us uh open new locations, be visible, be bookable, and it it really is just a 10 out of 10 service. I don't know how I could run my dance school without it. Well, will I do it? It would just take a lot more work. Yeah, a lot more work. But it just it frees up that sort of uh mental capacity where I can pass that over. I know it's taken care of, and then I can focus on um creating new things and the things that I enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, exactly. That's it. It's the key, it's things that you enjoy doing because now you're like got this business, it's running, you know, like well-oiled machine. We're going to new locations, you can plan what they are, what are the new classes, how we're going to get into new areas. And then the really exciting stuff is planning these.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

And works while you sleep. I remember seeing that once. Like, that is such a revolutionary thing to me. Like, you don't have to be working every single hour in the day. This can be here and ticking along, and I don't need to do anything.

Final Thanks And Important Dates

SPEAKER_01 27:05

I think that's the perfect testimonial, Hazel. That's it. Thank you very much. Listen, thank you so much for coming to chat to us today. And um, we're gonna create a really nice article to sit within uh the brochure of the Scottish Dance Awards that people can watch this, they can listen to it, but they can also read about it and find out where they can apply to the UK Dance Awards if they're gonna be bold and do it, which we know that Scottish people are Bolgians, so we're gonna get some way to century sooner. Um and yet lots to come in your space, and we can't wait to see it happen. So, thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you, thanks so much.