Episode 32

Gilbert and Jesus are back talking about the classic film Amadeus. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:16

Welcome back to the podcast for episode two of season four. This is back for this season. And uh today's episode, we're talking about a movie that we saw not too long ago. It's not a it's not a new film, it's a very old film called Amadeus, which by now everybody kind of knows it's like uh instinct classic. If y'all have never heard of Amadeus, I think y'all should I give it a watch. It's definitely one of those films that's like you hear people talk about. And um, and you know, you like you hear people talk about it, they're like, like, you gotta see, you gotta watch Amadeus. Amadeus, you know, it's that one film that people watch, and I just say go watch it. When I saw it, dude, I was like, my reaction was really like, why did it take me this long to finally watch this movie? And I I mean, I really enjoyed it. I mean, His series, what were your thoughts? Or I mean, tell the audience your thoughts on the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Uh, I mean, like, I think we know I think you and I both know the answers to why it took us forever to finally sit down and watch this. I mean, for those folks who may not know, uh that's this film for years, the only way to watch the astric girl was probably on a VHS. I don't know about Laserdisc, but like it was out of the public's hands for years. So you either had to have been born and known what this movie came out in '84, which neither of us were born, obviously, uh, or just get a VHS. And I mean, you know, we have VHS, but uh as it is, you're not gonna be you're not gonna find Amadeus on the open market like in a thrift store for VHS these days. Uh so when I heard that it came out in 4K, uh at least the first time it's officially on home video, I went and said, okay, this this has to be the time now. Like we have access to this, we need to sit down and watch this thing. I've heard so many good things about it. Uh, I mean it's Milos Juarman, you mean you know what I mean? Like one flew over the cuckoo's nest. That's as great as the first time I ever heard of him, and uh it was a great film. So when I heard about Amadeus, I was like, well, how did this movie make all almost all the awards back then? Like, this is the same time Terminator came out. Like it they're both, and the ironic thing is they're both released by the same company. So it's crazy to like I won. I was so in just like you, I was so intrigued, intrigued to go watch this. So when we finally did it, I was like, why is it that Hollywood uh knows how to make biopic films? Like overall, a lot of the biopic films I have seen are like really good, even if they sway a lot out of the source material. I mean, Amadeus does this very well, and it was just based off the play. So, like the playwright completely went went oh like made his own version of events, so it's like not really like this movie. You can't say it's a biopic, but it just feels like one, you know what I mean? So uh it was great watching this. Uh, I think I think everybody who wants to know or wants to at least see what the hype is about, uh, should should definitely uh give the theatrical version a watch.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Uh yeah, for those that don't know, um there's a theatrical version, then there's a director's cut. The theatrical version is actually rated PG, and then the director's cut is rated R. And if you ever see the two together, you'll understand why. I've been watching a lot of reaction videos lately, not really about Amadeus, but more like it's more of like you like to see people interact, or you like to see people watch a certain film for the first time, and it makes you feel like you're part of you know these people that are watching it. And the people that were watching Amadeus, they're um, I didn't realize until uh too late that they were they're watching the director's cut, and there's certain scenes I'm not gonna spoil it for anybody, but I will talk about the film in the latter half of the episode. So if you if you don't want any spoilers, if this somehow is starting to get you intrigued, I recommend like just stick to the first half of the episode and then just stop from there, come back after you watch the film because the film is really, really great. But I also don't want to spoil anything because as soon as I know at this point you haven't seen the director's cut. Uh mine was just more of I didn't realize people were watching the director's cut, but you'll understand a lot more of the storyline, like specifically involving like um Stanzi, that's uh Amadez's wife. But well, right now I want to talk about like this. So this film is one of those, it's a yeah, it's a biographical film. It's also like very considered. It's very um, I'm trying to think of a word right now. So once we get into like talking about the film, we're also gonna talk about a little bit about like the differences of what really happened and what didn't happen. And because biographical films nowadays, they tend to like be over or not over dramaticized, but dramaticized because it's what drews draws an audience's attention. Sometimes you get characters that don't even they didn't even exist, but they're supposed to be like a collection of people that were there all put into one character. But uh it's it's really great. Some people hearken many um movies that involve rivalries to Amadeus. And what I love about this is that like one character is seen the other as a rival while the other character sees him as somebody who he admires. And it's it's you see the contrast of FW Murnause, who plays Antonio Salierti, and then um Tom Hose, who plays uh Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. They're they're very different. Um, one's more mature, one's not mature. You'll figure out which one when we talk about later. But to my point being, it you get the character dynamics. I mean, in like in an interview, Christopher Nolan had said like he based off the um the characters of or like the storyline of Oppenheimer and um Damn, I forgot already. Um Downey Jr.'s character trying to think. But if you've seen the film, you know what I mean. Like they based it off of them. But yeah, there's that, even with the prestige, which one of these days I gotta talk about, you get that like that rivalry. Because the theme is about rivalry, but there's more than that. It's about you know God versus man, or man when he thinks he's at war with God. Again, something we'll eventually talk about later on. Um, but yeah, as Sue's mentioned, which another thing I'm gonna focus on, is that back in 1985 it won like all not all the awards, but it won a lot of its awards. I think I believe it won eight Academy Awards. Now I'm just remembering Strauss, Oppenheimer and Strauss, the relationship dynamic between them. But let me go check it out. I believe it won eight Academy Awards. Uh yeah. So it's it's ironic because Milo Schorman and Saw Zainz, I believe that's how you pronounce his name. Uh Saw Zainz is the producer of Amadeus, and Milo Schoreman, as we said, is the director. Milos Foreman and Saw Zainz worked on another film together, which they've won Oscars for in the past, which was, as I mentioned earlier, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nith, which um I gotta give a watch because you know it's that it's also One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is also that one film that people talk about, and you just gotta watch it. Especially because, you know, you got the famous Nurse Ratchet, which is a character, there's just a famous character in there. Believe it or not, Brad Dureth, who played, you know, Chucky in the Child's Play movies, was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. And it's funny because Michael Douglas won, who, you know, the actor Michael Douglas won his his Oscar for producing One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Ness with Saul Zainz. So I think it's funny how like Saul Zainz and Milo Schwarman worked together for One Flew or the Cuckoo's Ness. And about nine years later, nine or ten years later, they come back. What's another film that they did that was nominated for Best Picture and Best Director, and won both again, same thing. It's interesting. And just like one flew over the cuckoo's nest, it also, other than best picture and best director, it also won best actor for F. Murray Abraham, who played Antonio Salietti. Tom Hose, who played uh Mozart, was also nominated for Best Actor. Nowadays, it's like, I don't know why, but the Academy for some reason just chooses not to nominate two actors in a leading category versus like they do that, they're like they're okay with doing that for a supporting actor, but they choose not to do that with like two leading performances, one's gotta be supporting, and that's not even just the academy. Some studios do that purposefully because what's the word? It's like it gives a chance that at least the actor can win in a category. So, in modern text, if Amadeus came out today and it was winning its Oscars, Tom Holt would not have been nominated for best leading actor. He probably would have been nominated for supporting actor, or if the academy and the studios had their mind of not trying to nominate two actors in a leading category back then and decided to nominate Tom Holt back then for best supporting actor. I mean, it it still would have been the same. But uh, as soon as I do have a question um for you between Tom Hose and F. Murray Abraham, was F. Murray Abraham winning the Academy Award for Best Actor, do you believe that the right actor actually won?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

So this is very this is very hard. Like you had two the uh the ironic thing, like like mentioned is that this film was both actors were playing respective roles that uh one essentially were playing like rivals, uh even though the other one, uh Amadeus, or at least Tom Hosh uh as his character, didn't really see it that way. Uh funny thing is, is that um I honestly think he did deserve it ultimately. I mean, with the name of the film uh referring to the infamous composer, the movie kind of feels like it's not really about him. Like Amadeus is put into this, it's basically um Sal Salieri's retrospective or from his point of view. So you're we're seeing everything through his eyes, so he's only giving us what he thought of Amadeus, whereas we don't really see Amadeus for who he really is, that makes any sense. So I I can see why uh in my in in that case that the Oscars ultimately picked him because it just made sense. I don't know if I don't hope that answered the question.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Oh no, it did. Um, yeah, I I I agree. I think uh F. Murray Abraham deserved it. Yeah, because it is about you know Salietti's perspective. Salietti is the narrator of the film. And I I mean, yes, I honestly feel like they both kind of um share the screen at the exact same like the exact same amount of screen time. Because there are moments in the movie where, like, yes, Salietti narrates the film, but he's not. There are moments in the film that he's not there for because of course the main focus is about Mozart, but because it's I think that there's more passion, in my personal opinion, of Murray's uh performance than Tom Hose's performance. And I'm not saying anything against Tom Holt. I like I love Tom Hose, by the way. If y'all don't know, he voiced Quasimoto in the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Disney version. But yeah, if Murray Abraham deserved to win, he said in his speech that the only thing that doesn't feel right about him winning was he wanted to share it with Tom Hose. And I was looking into it. I was like, if Tom Hose was nominated for best supporting actor, would he have won? So I was looking into it. Unfortunately, he wouldn't have won. The actor who won Best Supporting Actor that year was a Cambodian person named Haying Esnor for a film called The Killing Fields. And I was just watching that um earlier, so there was really no like real competition for the movie Amadeus that could have been it for best picture or best director or anything like this. The one that could have was The Killing Field, but that's more of like an 80-20 situation where like 20% chance that movie could have been Amadeus, but most likely not. However, I will admit, because I was watching a little bit of it before we ever started, I was hooked. I think I was digging in a lot more than Amadeus. My mind about Amadeus hasn't changed though. That's just letting you guys know that. But it's a very interesting film. If we hang out again, we gotta watch it after I watch it again. But it's it's a very interesting film. Uh The Killing Fields. I'll just give a brief history about that. The Killing Fields is about news journalism in Cambodia during like the time when Cambodia was a communist country. And Hying S. Nior, who won the best supporting actor that year, he wasn't even an actual actor. He this this was his um acting debut. He was actually a physician during the time of Pol Pot's raise. And if y'all don't know what the killing field is, like not the movie, but like the killing fields, it's literally like genocide. Like, in my opinion, I I saw like what Pol Pot did in Cambodia from all the news and stuff. I think he was one of the most brutal dictators that I've ever like seen from documentaries and news footages and stuff like that. And it's tough because like I'm still coming off my um my recording of my first episode where I talked about like my views on politics and stuff like that. But movies like The Killing Field, I'm okay with because it doesn't take sides, it's not the perspective of the right side or the left side, it takes the perspective of somebody who doesn't even know about foreign foreign politics and realize like what true oppression is. And the reason being that Hyang F. New York, who was never an actor, why he wanted to do the film was because he was a physician during that time and wanted to represent Cambodia, like the people of Cambodia who suffered. So, which is something that he even mentioned in his speech. Funny enough, uh Pat Morita from the Karate Kid was nominated for the Karate Kid in 1984. But that's just that's just a little funny side note there. But no matter what, Tom Holst probably would have lost to either best actor for F. Murray Abraham, or if they put him in the supporting actor, he still would have lost, unfortunately. But uh Killing Fields, um, even though I've only seen a little bit of it so far, I recommend it. It's like a tough watch, but that movie could have been like its contender. It won three Oscars, again, winning one for Best Supporting Actor for Hyingas New York. It was also nominated uh for best actor, but obviously lost to F. Murray Abraham. Uh, it won best film editing and best cinematography, which to my surprise, is like um the cinematography in Amadeus was really good. Even the editing, I want to see what else it won, by the way. Because there's I don't think it would have won best score, if I'm thinking. Give me a second. Okay, so obviously, best picture director, actor, best uh, they call it best screenplay based on a material from another medium. That's just their way of saying uh best adapted uh screenplay was um Peter Schaefer. Peter Schaefer, I believe, was the original book writer. Yeah, he wrote the book based off the play and then used that as a screenplay. And while I'm best art direction, I'm I mean, come on, the way that they had to set up, you know, old Austria, you know, in the 1800s, not 1800s, 1700s, best costume design, best makeup, and best sound. Okay, best sound deserved. And you know why? Because it's been almost way over 200 years, almost 300 years since Mozart had died. And people still play his music, like that's interesting. And the way his music correlates with the themes of like what's going on in the movie, it's like you feel something was what these characters are doing. Uh, I don't know if you have anything about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

No, I mean it's it's pretty obvious. Like, I wanted to add something with uh with uh the art direction. So you have to give credit to the city uh where the where it was shot because I I think to this day you can still go over there. Uh I think it's Prague. You if you go to Prague, that that place still looks like it was it was built in the 1700s. I mean it it it I don't think they've changed it. Uh it still remains the same. Uh, another another awesome thing about it is um how, like you said, it's been almost 300 years, and at that point it was close to being about 200 years when the film uh was being made. It's amazing that the theater that they used for all of uh Ambadeus's uh operas in that film is the exact same theater that the real Mozart did his uh operas. So it's just it's just wild. Like theater is still standing to this day. It's amazing. I I mean with sound, it's it's it's just another thing. It adds on to it. It's like how could you even label it as best soundtrack? It's as up there as it is with Beethoven. Like it's uh it's iconic. People listen to it to this day after 300 years from its initial from its initial conception. So I mean, yeah, uh it deserves all those marks.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah, it's it's a very interesting film. It's a really great film. Again, I wish we would have seen it earlier or if my uh family had a VHS copy of it. But I'm I'm I'll always say better late than never, but I mean I'm not even 30 yet. I'm I still have enough of my use to actually watch this. But it's great, it's a great movie. Uh, I again recommend it. Watch theatrical cut first and then watch a director's cut because I mean you'll have the same feelings, but you'll understand a lot more if you watch the director's cut. But it was great, the acting was phenomenal. The only thing I wish is if I can get her name real quick. Um, the actress who played Stonzi, Elizabeth Barridge, the only thing is that she did not get a best supporting actress nomination. She I understand she might have been a little bit underutilized in the movie. But I mean, if if they had done the director's cut, I mean, again, I don't want to spoil anything for you, but in my personal opinion, I think she should have been nominated. You know, like she was there, she literally supported Mozart. You get what I mean? Like, she supported Mozart through the tough times, through the addictions. I mean, what are your thoughts, this is before we actually move on?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Okay, so uh what I'm trying to say is his wife was a very like in real life, Welsh's wife was a very uh significant contribution to his work, just keeping him on track, keeping him you know accountable. Uh, I mean, I guess you can see a little bit of that in the movie, but I don't think they really showed it as much as uh what what we could have seen. I don't think they really focused too much on their relationship as opposed to just trying to get using their relationship uh uh to get the plot across. To get from he was at the highest, uh the highest of luxury to uh his own spoils uh in his uh alcohol, uh alcoholistic desires to prevent him from finishing what could have been his uh magnum opus, as they say.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

I mean, yeah, it wasn't written much, but I mean who knows what it could have been. But um, yeah, um, it's a classic. They'll give as I keep saying, recommend it. And if I ever like finish uh watching The Killing Fields, I'll definitely want to talk about that. Because so far I want to, because it's interesting, you know, stuff like that. Like if you if you ever go back to movies like Schindler's List or The Last King of Scotland, when you're talking about somebody experiencing like what life is under a dictatorship, especially in a country you're not familiar with, like you're a foreigner there. It's it's interesting, but you know, but you know what? It's a great film. Tom hosts. I don't know if he he acts anymore. He said he can be on and again, off again. F. Murray Abraham sometimes he does, it just depends on like what the project is. Like, I don't remember the last like film I've seen him in. I feel like it had to be like a Wes Anderson kind of film because I remember the last thing, or maybe the first thing movie I've ever seen with F. Murray Abraham was a movie called Um The Grand Budapest Hotel, which is a really great movie if you haven't seen it. But yeah, uh, we're gonna take a little break real quick and then we're gonna talk about the movie. Because like I said, if you're interested and you haven't seen the movie yet, you could just stop from here, watch the movie, then you could come back and just hear because we're not just explaining the plot. I know I haven't done that in such a long time, but I feel like there's a lot I want to break down, especially like um, what's the word? Like what could what probably happen? Because there's not a lot of eyewitness information just took place in the 1700s, but I'll explain more when we come back from break. All right, we're on break. All right, and we're back. Okay, so I know I haven't done this in a while because I never like talking about like the plot of movie because it really does disservice when it comes to it. But if you're I'm just doing this now because unfortunately, we live in a time where like people don't want to watch old movies. And I say that's not not a good reason not to watch a good movie. You get you get what I mean? Like you're saying I don't want to watch an old movie because it's an old movie, that's not a valid reason. You gotta understand most of these movies were inspired that inspired the filmmakers that watch the move that you watch movies today. So give credit to the older filmmakers like Milo Schwarman. But I I'm really just doing this one just to have something into like in case people just want to have an old memory lane or whatever. But here's what how we're just gonna do is we're I'm gonna talk briefly as much as I could about it. The reason why I say like this is probably a two half a half or like just skip this half is because I don't know how long I'm gonna be talking about it. So I can't say fast forward like this amount of time, because we might be explaining this in like 30 minutes, but because we're also probably gonna add in what's pop what probably actually happened, the differences because remember, like movies that are by okay, this is a historical drama film, and there's a difference between a historical drama film and a biographical film. Historical drama is basically like the event. Events happened, their people were there, but not everything happened there. A lot of it was dramatized. And then biographical films, yes, not everything is gonna be like a hundred percent accurate to the T, but there's a little bit more of an accuracy there than it being uh the historical drama. So here's how it starts. And again, like I said, if you don't want any spoilers and you don't wanna, you know, and you don't want to hear anything, if you're interested in this movie, just cut it off from here. Go figure like you're actually gonna have to buy the movie, go out, buy the movie or rent the movie, someplace let you rent it, and then watch it, and then come back. So this is how it starts off. You get Antonio Salietti in his elder years. He's crying and he's saying, Mozart, forgive me. And his servants come into his room and he was hurting himself really badly. I'm saying, like, if you've seen the movie, you know, like I'm very what's the word I'm looking for? I'm saying it lightly because certain I can't say certain words, given that certain platforms host this podcast and they will literally take it off if I say the actual word.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Yeah, let's just say Elieri's um uh life uh free trial uh expired, or at least it was it was him trying to cancel his uh his trial for life, his free trial life.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Yeah, yeah, I guess you could say it like that. But um yeah, he was taken to a hospital and then to heal himself to like have him healed, and then they took him to the asylum because they felt like he was just you know a crazy man trying to destroy his life. So during this, they a priest came in and was you know asking about like why he tried to do this to himself. What is he talking about when he said I kill someone? He first he plays music that Salieri wrote in his younger days, and then and the priest has no recollection or he doesn't know what any of these pieces are. Then he plays uh one of Mozart's plea pieces. Forgot what it was called. I think hold on, do I have it written down somewhere or at least? But it goes, it's it's the one that goes dumb bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum. But by the way, that's funny how I interjected there. Uh by the way, you can actually humble or mumble a lot more with Mozart's piece because they're more public domain, but um, so I don't really have to fear too much about copyright. But anyway, um, yeah, he was playing that thing. Okay, it's called Ian Klein. No, hold on. Let me find the translation because I can't speak German. Serene number 13. That's what it's called. So if you ever want to if you ever didn't know what that song was called, it's called Serene number 13. So it goes dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. All right, I better stop before I just take over from there. But the priest was like, Oh, I know that song. I didn't know you wrote it. And he and Salieri's like, I didn't write it. It was Mozart that wrote it. He he talks about how like him and Mozart grew up differently, because Mozart was a prodigy. You know what I mean? Like, uh, if y'all don't know what the term prodigy is, it's somebody who's super young, but so super gifted, like intelligent-wise or music-wise, like like basically, like somebody can graduate high school at eight years old because they're that uh intelligent. I know that's a bit of a stretch, but you you get what I mean. Like, they're they're more gifted than a lot of older people are. You know, they're more talented and more educated than it takes someone with a master's degree to have that level of intelligence. Most so that was Mozart. He also like grew up with like a very like, you know, I guess you could say wealthy father, though they've never mentioned if he comes, if he actually came from wealth or not. Because I believe even his sister was a prodigy in real life. But um, women back then, especially European women back then, weren't allowed to share any kind of musical gift as the men did. That's what I'm that's what I that's what I think I remember reading about or even seeing from somebody who was watching the film. And I think she was, I think a music history teacher. Never thought those words would leave my mouth, by the way. Um, but yeah, Mozart was a prodigy, Salietti wasn't. In fact, his father didn't allow him to learn music at all. His father wanted them to, wanted him to like just be a kid, learn to actually get a job. I mean, I mean it's it's it's weird how like fathers had that mentality even 300 years ago. And he he said one day when he was young that he prayed to God that he would make a vow of chastity if he was allowed to learn and play music. And I always think it's funny because when he says that, he goes, then a miracle happened, and his father dies of a heart attack, and everybody, even like it's Susanai's reaction to that, and people who seen the movie are like just like like caught off by surprise when he said a miracle happened. Like that, I mean, I have no words for that. I know you didn't, um, but it was just that's just how it went. So and so one of these things to start off here when he when he said he gave about chastity, it's implied in this movie that um Salietti um was celibate, it's all life that it's supposedly he never married and he died a virgin. Um, that's actually not true. Salietti did actually get married and he had, I believe, eight children. But again, it's just dramatization dramatization. It's like I get why they also did another thing they did. This was it it fits the theme of this movie about like your willingness to like be better, so like you don't have time for love and stuff. But yeah, that's why they kind of like changed the history a little bit. But Salietti did did have a wife, um, and eight kids. That's what I found out. All right. But to move forward onto this, um, when he grew up, Salieti became like became one of the I guess you could say like a head composer or yeah, he yeah, head composer. I remember now. He became head composer for an opera house in Austria, and it's usually run by um the emperor of Austria. And Salietti was the music teacher for the emperor of Austria. And the emperor of Austria is not musically gifted, so no matter how many times Salielli tries to um teach him, he can never really get anything right. That's why, like, in the line he says he was he never really had an ear for music. And and at that point, people kind of already knew like this young kid Mozart, you know what I mean? Salieri was a composer, like he was a music person, but it's like let's let's let's put it in modern terms. It's like imagine like somebody who the community knows, like specific community, like people of Texas or San Antonio, or maybe like people in Nashville or like what people from people with the states listen to, like if the people of this state listens to a certain singer, you can't really outmatch them to a modern singer. Like, like if Taylor Swift came to Texas, then that's literally gonna outshadow or overshadow this person who's like only known by the state. State, I know that's a weird thing, and I don't like putting Taylor Swift in my podcast at all. So, but to my point, people know Salietti, but majority of the people know more of Mozart, is what I'm trying to get. And he went to this banquet, I believe that was hosted by the archbishop. I don't remember. I think he was the archbishop. And that I'm trying to remember, it's like I always kind of like over glaze this part, but he goes and he knows that Mozart is there to Salietti's surprise that Mozart is a man child, pretty much, is what I'm gonna say. He's a grown man child. Um, he just folds around, he's very immature, but he's still musically gifted. That's the thing that kind of like ticks Salietti off a bit because he's like, this is like this is the gift of musician people are talking about. And you gotta remember back then there was no social media or news coverage or any technology whatsoever. Everything was by word of mouth. You know what I mean? Like, how much of um what's the word? It's like how how much people hear about somebody, they gotta travel and be like, there's this new person you gotta hear, you know, especially there was no televis television. So, word of mouth, like face-to-face contact is how people knew each other. And he was, and from what he've heard about Mozart versus him like seeing who Mozart really is, it kind of threw him off a bit. But anyway, they're writing this new opera and they wanted Mozart to um be be like the mute the composer for it. So when uh the emperor asked for Mozart to you know make an appearance, first things first, Salietti wrote a music as because the emperor wanted like a music intro for Mozart. And the emperor's like, can I play it? Play the song. And obviously, you know, the emperor butchers that song big time, but you know, Mozart still makes his appearance, and you know, they're like, We want you to compose this piece. We want to know, first of all, do you want this to be sung in Italian or German? He said, Oh, I want it German because I already have the story in mind, and then people were thrown off that it takes place in a harem, part of it takes place in a harem. Um, if y'all want to know what that is, uh how Telieri put it, a brothel. That's pretty much what it is. Because I don't think I'm allowed to say whorehouse on this thing, even though I just said whorehouse right now, but um, that's what he said, and it just throws people off again. Um, very he's a very immature person, and throughout this movie, you will hear him laugh. And give me a second, that laugh, I think it goes like something like that. And it it gets annoying so much, but I think that's what made I think that's why we like Tom Holtz's portrayal as the as Mozart, it's because of that laugh. Um, and then later on you just realize how good of a betrayal it actually becomes. Um but to the point, um, they get everything ready. Mozart eventually marries his um like his love, which is uh Stone. Her name is Constanze, but they she's called Stanzi throughout the entire movie. And yeah, like pretty much she is Mozart's wife, like in real not in real life, but like that's that's that was Mozart's wife's real name is Stonze. But the thing is that so to pee I know some people might be might be surprised at what I'm about to say. Mozart, yes, is famous now, and he was famous then, and his work is appreciated now. Here's the thing back then Mozart wasn't he wasn't getting paid much by the opera houses or the places that he uh performed at. He was actually like in debt. Like he he was poor and broke. Um, he never really accepted money from his father. Um, he mainly just relied more on his music, get like paying him rather than like having to teach, um having to teach music, you know, or like getting a job. You know, it's like he he puts too much time to writing his music, which I get, but that's actually something I didn't even know about, which makes sense of something I'm probably gonna mention afterwards about this. But I mean, Esther, were you familiar with like Mozart actually not being like of wealth?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I mean, I'm not surprised by it. Uh I I honestly wasn't um you know how we get this kind of like stereotype. Uh at least I had the stereotype of people back then because of what they looked and how they dressed that looked like royalty or they they had were born in wealth. Um, so it's it was it took me by surprise to know that not everybody's like that. I mean, the movie just kind of gives us a glimpse, like Mozart, even though in all these paintings that we have of him and portraits, he wasn't rich. Uh and but see that to me it's like I I looking back at it, it's not surprising because a lot of the greatest, or at least what the world considers to be the great of the greats, they didn't come from wealthy backgrounds. I mean, in all facets of of culture, or I mean facets of study, from music to science to um to English, to I mean well to reading, uh, and you know, etc. These guys didn't come from wealthy backgrounds. They had to they had to earn their way to be considered what they are. And just like just like how in the movie, I mean, Mozart kept saying, My music's gonna make me someday. Like I'm gonna be I'm gonna be known. The world is not ready for it, you know? So um it makes sense. I mean, it's it's not surprising to hear to know that this this this guy could be remembered years and like millennia later, he started from nothing or chose to start from nothing because he wanted to do his own thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah, um, yeah, so it it's like you know, modern modern days like people are like, I want to be a rock star and I think I can make music and not get a job. But I mean, I I guess it's always that mentality because even Mozart's father doesn't like yes, Mozart's father realized his like musical gifts, but he also says like this isn't something you should just always rely on. Um, you know, their their relationship it's like their father-son relationship isn't really the best, and even like Stanzi doesn't like Mozart's father. Um and at this point, Salietti doesn't even he he's growing jet jealous of Mozart because again, he's like, I'm a guy who takes everything serious and does me I I do music too, but this is coming, but people want to hear the immature guy who doesn't take life seriously. But yes, I get he I get he does good music because in the moment um stanzi was seeing if um Salietti could get a job. I mean Salietti could give Mozart a job, and she gives um Salietti Mozart's sheets of music, and those aren't even those were the original like copies or yeah, the original copies of the music sheets. And this scene, every time I watch it, and sometimes I even watch it separately. I love this scene by the way. He reads the music and he he feels like like he's like again, there's no way you could have listened to this back then before it was ever like he's he's the because he's a music teacher. I know I'm mumbling a lot, but because he knows music, he's reading the notes and he could feel the music without even having to hear it. And that always that drew me a lot more. I mean, like he drops it and she's like, Is it bad? And he's or is it not good? And he's like, It's magnificent. And that's at that moment, uh, he's like, I wouldn't say he denounced his belief in God, but he I think he said he ended he he more of ended his relationship with God, unless that's also stands for you're denouncing your beliefs, but I'm not a theologian, so I can't really prove that.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

But he felt like here's the thing, he felt like he was more sorry, uh sorry, I don't mean to direct interject, but like again, this this is based off a book, and the book, I mean, goes way over over dramaticizes lots of the events, and some of these events may not even be real, right? So e even if this was done to again create uh to create tension with the audience, to be to be or to feel sympathy for him for the fact that he had to he just he couldn't he couldn't believe that that God essentially did not fulfill his wish, that he wanted to be known, and he gave it to somebody else that he thought was a goofball, you know. So who knows? Maybe maybe maybe maybe he did maybe he did do what what you know a theologian may claim as uh uh denouncing God. But I mean, we don't have much t we don't really have much history or maybe not even know if he actually did that. You know what I mean? Yeah, and it was just done for the film, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

But like either like either way, um he still like he felt like it's interesting it because when we were watching the movie, I sense like he was more at war with God than he was with um Mozart, but he he still wanted to check like how Mozart is. So he followed Mozart to a costume party that he brought his uh his wife, his pregnant wife actually at the time, Stanzi, and his father. And his father obviously disapproves of like just the way he's living. Like he like knowing like his father knows that he's in debt, and he knows that like he's just and I mentioned earlier, like he's just relying on music and stuff. His father is saying, like, you gotta come home with me, you know, because there's you have no life um here. Um, I think his father's father's from Schomburg, which is in Austria. Um, he says he has no life here in Vienna, I believe that's where he's at. But you know, Mozart's just Mozart, you know, he's acting like a kid. But the moment that really drove Salieti to the edge, um, is it's again something, it's another thing that I like in this movie, where it's like he's asking the audience, like, what do I what should I play on this uh little piano? And they're naming people uh like other composers like Clopin or whoever was alive around that time or before um Mozart. And he's like, No, I don't like them, no, that's too easy. Um, no, they like their music doesn't sue me or whatever. And Salietti incognito says play Sagieti, and Mozart's like, oh, that is a challenge right there. But then, like, he does play a Sarietti piece, but he plays it mockingly. Um, and again, it's not like Mozart trying to be mean, plus he doesn't know that was Salietti, like you know, asking him to play his own music. But like seeing all of this, like it just like Salietti was like, Okay, I gotta do something to ruin this guy's career. And now I'm thinking of that meme from like 10 years ago. I don't know why. But anyway, he hires a maid to be a spy for Mozart, and she mentions that and like one day that um Const Constance and Mozart, they just leave the house, so the maid brings Salietti in. And Salietti sees that he's working on an opera from a play called Figaro. I think it might be that that Figaro Figaro Figaro Figuero song. But he realized, but when he found out that this is the play that um Mozart or this is the opera Mozart's trying to work on, he snitched um to the emperor and to the to the rest of the um, I guess you can say board of governors of the opera house, because this was um a play, this was based off of a play that was about classism and stuff like that, something that the Emperor of Austria banned from ever having to be performed. And Mozart, he no, like knowing he's been snitched on, but he doesn't know who snitched on him. Um, he says, like, I'm this is gonna be different. I hate politics. And when I heard him say I hate politics, bro, I felt like a not Elijah Woods, what is it? Sha LaBeouf in that meme where like he's the audience, he's the only audience member coming out of a scene just clapping. Because for once I got to hear a character say something like that. Like I said, I'm coming off my first episode, and like I said, I've I've explained my political views and all that. I like again, movies don't have to be political, even though like I think a year ago we did our political horror film, those movies that we talked about were never preachy. Um, you get what I mean? Like, we get like what was the cultural references in those horror films, but were you gonna say something?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

No, I was just telling you, like, movies were just back then were just movies.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Yeah, but anyway, um, Mozart pleaded and said, like, look, you're gonna enjoy this, it's gonna be different. And I'm not gonna put too much like story into it because the reason why I'm not saying everything is I still want people to actually watch the film because there's a lot more to it. But he was actually performing his opera, and then um everybody, Salietti and the rest of the board of governors was what I'm this is what I'm just referencing is because I don't remember what like what they're actually called uh in the opera house. But there are they notice that the emperor yawned, and there's always like these references saying, like, if you yawn once, you only get like a limited um show times, and if you want he yawns like multiple times, then it cancels after the first night. But after one of the shows, Mozart gets information that his father died in Schaumburg. And then obviously Mozart wrote an uh opera based on that. I keep saying musical, but well, I mean, operas were musical back then. But anyway, he wrote a musical, obviously, like dealing with like um I mean, I I guess you could say like I don't want to say oppression from the father, but it's I I can't think of a word right now. It's I guess pressure from the father wanting like what he wants, what Mozart wanted in him, what Amadeus's father wanted him to do in life and stuff like that. But Salietti noticed like when Mozart was composing his opera, he realized that he's being haunted by like the ghosts or like the voices of his father, not literally, but like in his mind, like in his spirit. And he took this as an opportunity to say, Oh, I know what to do. What he was gonna do was he's gonna have him compose music and just have him just constantly stay on that. And to the point where Salieri was gonna end Mozart's life and at his funeral compose it as if it was his own, as if like he's getting back at God for this. And what he does is to actually like convince him and to scare him, he wears like this mask that his father wore at a party, and as if it's like the spirit of his father, and he's telling him, I want you to compose this. This is a piece called Requiem or Requiem Mass. It's actually performed, but it's also infamously known for never being completed, by the way, because yeah, Mozart died before it could ever be completed, or at least like his death is uh an at it's an attribute of the reason why it's never been completed. So, whatever that's been written is what it's just being used. But Salietti incognito has way has does what he does, which is like have him write this piece, keep adding more or keep wanting more and paying Mozart more. And so Mozart literally spends night and day getting drunk and high. I won't even say high. They said he was on drugs at certain points, but he spent so much time on this on this on this piece, on this score, that it's just like you see Salietti, like like his like here's the thing Salietti kind of pisses you off in this film, like he's not very much of a nice guy, but in all honesty, even Mozart's not much of a saint either. Like he's very prideful and ignorant and stuff like that. So it shows you, like, yes, Salietti, I mean, he's not much of a nice guy, but that also means like Mozart wasn't a saint either, even though he was climbing around. You get what I mean? Like the theme is basically saying, like, work I feel like, and we could always interpret from differently, that like just because somebody looks like they're not a nice guy, you yourself who are judging, you're not a saint either. That's something that I've always interpreted. But another thing is that like Mozart is also writing an opera for a friend of his. And it just comes to the point where like the maid that Salietti hired was so scared of how Mozart's become, she quits. Constance um leaves, like leaves Mozart and takes their son with him or with her. So the night that he finished the opera and he was performing the opera, he passed out. And Salietti sees like how exhausted he was. So he has his his friends take him to take him to Mozart's house, and Salietti stays with. Him and you know, Mozart is saying, like, I still need to finish this piece. Um, Salietti like lies and says, like, oh, the man that you've been writing for wants he wants he wants you to have this finished by tomorrow night, and he'll pay you more than what he's been paying you recently. But Mozart does not have the strength. So Sadietti uh helps write, you know, the pieces. And this is where it's like, even though like you know where Salietti's intentions are, you you can see how like two musicians are in sync with each other, one after the other. And you know, Mozart's too quick on like make like figure out this music should be. And Salietti's like, Hold on, calm, like, wait, wait, wait, I'm still writing on the previous thing you just asked me to say. And to the point, like they've been working literally all night. And Stanzi shows up, fills regret of leaving Mozart, and like she has resentment now towards Salietti, and she wants him to leave, and she blames this music for taking away, like you know, moments with her husband. And you know, like it's it's tough. Another thing I didn't mention, um, it's like the movie shows that they only have one child, they actually had two sons, but I believe also in real life, Doncy had miscarriages, like other pregnancies that end in miscarriages, because they say they had two surviving sons. So eat so it's either like she's had miscarriages or like they've had kids but didn't survive through infancy. But the movie just says they have one son. But when they came home, Mozart still has a little bit of life left in him, and then eventually Mozart dies. And at that, it was at that moment when Salietti realized like well, like he got what he kind of wanted, but at what cost? You know what I mean? So, and because, like we said, Mozart wasn't rich, he didn't have wealth like his family, like the others of his family did. Unfortunately, that means that there was no funeral cost or anything. And I'm pretty sure Salietti might have was gonna probably pay for like the funeral expenses, but because Don Z has like resentment towards um Salietti, she probably didn't want his money. That's what I'm thinking in my head. But again, we could always interpret film differently. So, because of that, Mozart had to be buried with people who also couldn't afford it, as well as like John Doe's and Jane Does, which is sad by the way, because like John Doe's and Jane Does, if y'all don't know what those are, those are names of people who can never be identified. And when a John Doe or Jane Doe is deceased, um, they literally had to be buried like somewhere random. And I think that's how it goes. But that's where Mozart was buried. He was buried with other townsfolk who can never afford to like have a grave site or a funeral. And that's kind of true because no there you can go to the cemetery where Mozart is buried, that's that exists, but the grave sites, nobody knows where it's at. Like nobody can ever find it. So there's a memorial there, but it's not on his grave site because nobody knew where it was. So, in my honest opinion, in a physical sense, Salietti kinda didn't really kill Mozart. He kind of he really overworked him to death, but not like murder. But in a spiritual context, he did kill Mozart um because he wanted Mozart dead and because of all these plans of and his hatred towards Mozart. Okay, you know what? You know what, never mind. Yeah, he killed Mozart. I mean, in both sense, I I think you can agree in both senses, in the physical sense, mainly in the spiritual sense, he did kill Mozart, unless you have a different thought, um Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Um, I mean, you pretty much handed out the same stuff that I was gonna mention. Uh he didn't really kill him. It's more just if you think about it, he contributed to his death. And uh unfortunately for Salieri, it it it was too much, like like you just mentioned. Um, he felt like he won, he felt like he beat God, but when it's always when it's too late, you end up realizing the mistake you made. And that's probably what he felt. At that moment when he had died, he not only let the world lose an icon, it was the biggest test God gave him, and he lost.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Yeah. Um, and he said, and like after everything, because and if you watch this, this is technically a confession to a priest, because that's what the priest was there for for protect for any confessions that Salieri may have had, and that was the full confession. And he ends up saying, like, Mozart will always be great and we'll just be mediocre. That's literally what he says. And then, of course, it ends with that laugh, that that kind of laugh. Um, but um, it's a great film. I highly recommend it. It and what I mean is certain stuff makes sense, and this is gonna be so off kind of off. Um, like many years ago, um, I think it was like maybe 12 years ago, Epic Rap Battles of History did Skrillex versus Mozart. And there was so much lines I kind of get now, like with Skrillex saying, You may have been a genius, but you died broke and worthless. Um your your daddy issues make my make the Jackson 5 look like the family server. Like everything makes sense now, even if the film is more dramatized, or the book even being more dramatized. Um, but I again highly recommend it, guys. Um, it's really great. You know, I'm glad it won its awards. F. Marie Abraham deserved it. It would have been interesting to see Tom Host do it, um, unless you got any f final thoughts. I was just gonna say, um, watch the movie first.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Don't look up the history or don't look up what has been recorded um by historians of that time. Um that's really it. I mean, you can find out for yourself later. Uh, I'll probably share it with Gilbert. I'll share it with you like as soon as it's over. Um, but for those who are looking into like probably looking at like a background and look up the history of of the real people that the films are based off of, it's better that you don't because then it kind of ruins the uh experience.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Yeah, yep. This far as far as uh everything else, um, I mean, I do have some more ideas of the this season. Um, I do have an idea for Christmas coming up, so um, I'm actually gonna try to see if I can get Josh on this one specifically with you and Josh because I don't know how y'all gonna feel about it, to be honest with you. But you'll find out when that day comes. But anyway, as far as you and ISCs, I don't know what else we got. I know one of these dates we do plan on doing um the room. So I'm actually thinking we should do that when the next time we get on board, unless you got another proposal.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

I mean, I would love I would love to do um I would love to do a double feature. Put on put on the disaster artists and then put the room. We don't have to talk about disaster artists. I mean, more like main focus is the room, but at least you and I and whoever else wants to join in, we'll watch, we'll watch both.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Yeah, um, yeah, we'll probably do the room next time. Um, not next episode. I do I'm planning on doing, I'm not gonna spoil it, but I do have an idea what like I'm gonna talk about something else for next episode, uh especially because it I think it kind of fits well with um Halloween uh coming up this year. Might be our only kind of like horror-esque episode, but that's all I got. Um, you guys, um, like I said, watch the film. And if I ever want to talk about the killing fields, I'll definitely want to talk about it. It's a really I mean again, I've only seen like probably like the first 20 minutes and I'm already invested in it. So probably after this, I'm gonna finish watching it. But that's all I got. Um, you guys have a great night, day, morning, whenever you're listening to this. And um, yeah, you guys agree. I love y'all. Hi, if you like our content and want to get more content, please follow us on Instagram at Tough Love Pictures along with our YouTube under Tough Love Pictures.