Gilbert's It's All about the MEDIA
I talk about certain things in the media such as filmmakers, studios, movies in general, and Q & A's with YouTubers and other people.
Gilbert's It's All about the MEDIA
Episode 34
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Gilbert and Jesus do a special called 1v3. A debate amongst horror fans on which film in a franchise is better, the first or the third film.
Okay, we're recording. Um, all right, welcome to the back to the podcast, everyone. Um we're still in the the spooky season right now, and um I know there's uh a lot of great things going on in film and stuff like that. I know Shelby Oaks is coming out, which uh I definitely want to check out. Um I know uh Five Nights of Frayse is coming out in December, and a lot of great horror films also being released this time of the year, especially with AMC and Fearfest and um, you know, Freeform's the 31 Days of Halloween, which I remember back then it used to be called um 13 Nights of Halloween when Freeform used to be called um ABC Family. Y'all feel old yet? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Um, anyways, this night we're gonna do something that's a little bit um, I don't even know how you describe it. Something different, something I don't think anybody really talks about. We call this well, we're calling it one versus three. What we're talking about is in a collection that I've seen, there's only been three film series, though. Zeus wants to bring up two more, and we'll probably be debating towards the end of this. Um, but the main three that I've seen among the horror community and YouTube analysis and all that, um, Halloween, an Art Man on the street, and The Exorcist, there've always been this debate of which has the better film, the first film or the third film. So we thought we could start this off by talking about first Halloween, which is obviously there's Halloween, and then there's Halloween three season of the Witch. Both very different films. Because if you remember from the beginning, especially when we I think we did our our um Halloween episode a long time ago, I still get a crack out of that one, um, especially around this time. But um Halloween and Halloween three again are different films because back in the day, um John Carpenter, after he filmed Halloween, the original, or during it, I don't remember. All we just know is that he thought about you know what, let's have this as an anthology series. And if y'all don't know what an anthology series is, it's just basically like a collection of stories um that are just centered around like the title and stuff like that. So Halloween was always meant to be the title, but each movie was supposed to be a different story. But I mean, after the first film, we all know the story on that one. Fans wanted to see Michael Myers again, or not even really fans, just like the film spectators of 1978 were waiting years to wonder if there's gonna be more Michael Myers and stuff like that. John Carpenter said, Okay, we're gonna do one more Michael Myers movie. Well, we know how that turned out, and then uh we're gonna continue on with what I wanted to do. Then Halloween three season of the witch came out, it was a whole different storyline. Michael Myers is like an end-universe film, so it's almost like our universe. Everything that happens is in our universe in Halloween 1978, it's just a movie within that universe, if that makes sense to anybody. Um, so Halloween three season of the Witch is not a slasher film, it has nothing to do with Michael Myers, it's infamously well known as the one Halloween film that does not have Michael Myers on it. And we're we're not gonna go over the plots of these films because we did that. Y'all can go check that out when it was his Suicide, and then it was our friend Kevin. Um, we're just gonna talk about like why fans have said either Halloween or Halloween three are the better, um, or which one's the better film of the entire um series, though a lot of people will always say, yes, John Carpenter's 1978 is a classic. Why people are leaning towards Halloween 3 a lot recently, uh, I can give you something. I like to call it uh Michael Myers Fatigue. You get what I mean? It's been 13 films. We just had the whole trilogy, the David Gordon Green trilogy, not too long ago. And at this point, I think we're all like fatigued on Michael Myers. Like, can we get another film? Like, I think now we're we're at that point where it's like, can we go to what John Carpenter John Carpenter really wanted, which is an anthology film?
SPEAKER_02Well, if I can add something to that, I'd like to say that um not only is that that we're like the fan base and everybody who's just uh you know enamored by the uh the franchise is already tired of just having the same thing over and over again. Because I mean that's just how it is. That's that's that's how that's how IPs work. Um, I think streaming has a lot to to to contribute to the to the idea that hey everybody wants to see something different now. I mean, streaming, you've had like actual, I think if I'm correct or not, I mean I'm not sure. Somebody can correct me out there, but we we have like franchises that are now being made in these streaming sites that that aren't even that don't necessarily connect back to the previous installment. It's like it's like a TV show. Like, like if you have a TV show, you may only have just one central um component that comes out in every episode. That could be a character, like a protagonist of the entire show, or that could just be a theme. Um think of it like goosebumps, right? I mean, goosebumps, there's not really a central character in every episode, it's just the idea that hey, it's there's supernatural forces that act upon something and they impact the story. So it's kind of like like how we're seeing it now. A lot of shows will have this kind of element. It doesn't have to be an actual physical person, it can be some sort of theme that ties the entire show together. And because of streaming, I I think that contributes to the idea of hey, maybe we can see that in film now. Like back in the 80s, it's like Carpenter and Deborah Hill, they both kind of pioneered that for horror. They were like, hey, we need him, we need a we need to start thinking about outside the box. Like maybe people just don't want to be seeing Michael all the time. Maybe they don't want the the daughter, I'm sorry, the brother-sister angle. Maybe they just want something new. And of course, back then we weren't receptive to it. But nowadays, people are now starting to open up. Uh, at some point, if we're if we're gonna once we get to like the actual debatable points between each film, uh, I like to kind of chime in on that. I'm one of those people who actually have now appreciate three for what it is. I think it really stands out and is actually a pretty good film when you remove the mask of everything else. Like, because yeah, obviously there were some ideas they tried, they didn't, they didn't whatever. I'll I'll go into more detail then. But just just just um just to wrap that up, not only fatigue, but I think the current uh media outlet has influenced our way of viewing uh high piece.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, I think the well some of like the negative that came around Halloween 3. I mean, other than like, oh, this is the non-Michael Myers film, again, infamously known for being taught that one, which I don't think is fair um at all. Um, I used to think that. And then like I like you said, I kinda've grown to appreciate three. I kind of had a different mindset now than last time we spoke about Halloween and Halloween three. Um, what was it like three years ago? Um, I think it's now in the top five for me. I know some people will have it as the top two, which is Halloween and Halloween uh three. Yeah, uh, I think it's really because like so. Okay, another negative aspect that people tend to talk about is um the big one, which is um Tom Atkins' character, um, who's I believe he was already in his 40s when he did this film. Um, and by the way, Tom Atkins, who starred in the film, this is not his first John Carpenter film. He did uh The Fog, which I bet a lot of people didn't even know that was a remake. Um, the original one came out in 1980, was you guessed it, Jamie Lee Curtis and Tom Atkins. Um, the same story. Um, I haven't seen I haven't seen the original, and I have not, and I've only seen a little bit of the remake. Um, to my point, um, the biggest um the biggest like negative people have is that the character of Tom Atkins and then the girl, I forgot her name. Um, I just I just forgot the um the character's name. Do you remember the character's name from uh Halloween three, the girl, or at least the actress? Because I only remember Tom Atkins.
SPEAKER_02Uh I can't really say for sure. I don't actually remember the name. It's not up, it's it's not in my current mindset. I mean, I just remember, of course, they they had what is it, um Nancy. Um from the from the first film, just to play a different character or play the estranged wife of Tom Atkins's character.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, there was also I mean because that's actually how the start of a um of an anthology film or an anthology series go. If you've ever seen um any like a series or film, um if you don't know, think like uh I should I should have used this as an example. I didn't think about this. Think of like um the Twilight Zone, that's an anthology show. Um I say in Twilight Zone, Twilight Zone, sorry, um, or American Horror Story. You know how American Horror Story, if y'all have seen it, um, has some of the same actors come pretty much every film. So that's how an anthology series or an anthology film tends to be sometimes. Um, so they had obviously um Nancy Loomis, I think that was the actress's name, as the estranged wife of um Tom Atkins. Uh Jamie Lee Curtis came.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm actually looking at her right now. Uh so Stacey Nelkin played Ellie. That that was her.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis and then I remember that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, she what was she doing? Was she the voice of like uh of the town, like telling the people on the radio? I mean, sorry, the the speakers that it's it's it's curfew.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. And and then of course we got Richard Warlock or Dick Warlock, if you want to be cruel. And um, yeah, for those that don't know, Dick Warlock played Michael Myers in Halloween 2. He played the robotic henchman of um man, I forgot his who's the owner of Silver Shamrock, the villain of this entire series. I believe his name is Dan O'Hearley. Dan O'Heerley, but it it wasn't like Connor or Connor or something. You mean you mean like the character, right?
SPEAKER_02Um O'Connell.
SPEAKER_00O'Connell.
SPEAKER_02Hold on, I'm gonna get this right now. Hold on. No, it's not it's Cochrane.
SPEAKER_00So we're close. It's Cochrane. Okay, sorry. I knew it was like a very, very Irish name. I think um, I think what's getting people a lot more recently as I think about it, of um Halloween 3. Oh, I'm sorry. Go let's go back to everything. Um, one of the biggest negatives is obviously that the two characters are like 20 to 30 years um apart from each other, and there's the infamous uh sex scene in that film. And then especially because like Tom Atkin's character even asked her, like, how old are you? Like during the moment, and yeah, there's that this move the movie does have a little bit of a slow burn, but I mean so did the original, because the original was a very low budget indie film um that most people tend to forget. But to my point, I think a reason being is that people are growing a lot more to um Halloween 3 recently is because it actually fits to the Halloween theme of the film, or at least around the holiday. Because remember, Halloween, I mean, the writers have always argued that originally it was supposed to be called the babysitter's uh murder, and then somebody changed it to Halloween, and then some say, Oh no, that's a fake story. Um, who really knows from there? All we know is that like Halloween um was always intended to be surfaced around the holiday or about the holiday. So Halloween, the original 1978, was supposed to be about um just a guy stalking a babysitter and her friends, and then boom, there's the um the murders happen, it ends with him getting shot and them disappearing. Halloween three season of which is more about the folklore of horror or sorry, the folklore of the the entire series or the entire holiday. I'm uh sorry. I think that's where we can give Halloween three a lot more of its flowers because um I've never seen a lot of like horror films or Halloween films, and I mean like just in general, I don't mean like um horror Halloween, I mean like you know, twitches or not twitches, but um hocus pocus and sleepy hollow and stuff like that. They mentioned all Hollow V, but they never mentioned like the origin of what it was supposed to mean. So that's where I um I was like, okay, so if I look if I think about it thoroughly, Halloween three is more about like the origin of the holiday and what they do. Um Scare Factor. Um, if we think about it, Halloween three is a lot more scarier than Halloween, or at least the ending, if you get what I mean.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, so like I so uh don't mean to cut you off, Gilbert. Um, but if I can add something at least for the ending, so let's take let's look at this objectively. You have the original, which is already terrifying in itself. I mean, it's like the equivalency of back then and in the actual time frame. Like, let's imagine the people who were watching this in this in 78 or 77. At that time, the idea of serial killers out in the out in the open was at a at a time at a high. So when you see something like that, like a serial killer, like if the original title was Babysitter Murder, this guy got scot-free. I mean, he he escaped. So it's like, wow, this guy's out there still somewhere. And it's all it's all invigorated by the ending of how he's just breathing in every location we've already seen in this film, at least in the houses. So it's like, yeah, it's like giving you the impression this guy's still out there. So as soon as you leave the theater, watch out, you know. But then you have a third film. As a former teacher, this really stood out to me when I had finally watched it. Again, like I I watched it last year. Can you imagine if you were in imagine you were in your parents' shoes, you know about the whole celebration happening, you know the giveaway that's gonna be happening on TV. Every single kid who's probably gonna get either a bucket load of candy, like a la Willy Wonka chocolate factory style, or get millions of dollars. So the parents obviously are tuning in with their children. Imagine all those kids across the United States. Of course, it it seemed like it was only televised in the US, but who knows? What if this was televised across the globe, like in India, Russia, China, you know, at the same time. Every single kid, if that commercial stayed on, as uh Tom Atkins was telling every single provider to like turn it off, and that one channel decided not to, who knows if they turned it off on time, or that meant that every single kid, hundreds, we're talking maybe thousands, more than that, millions of kids died. Like that's crazy. If you think about it, it's wild, it's scary to think about that. I know that that's the I think that is obviously the intention Deborah and John wanted the the audience to feel at the end. Did he stop it on time? Who knows? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, who knows? I mean, people are gonna be or and what I mean, people, I mean studios are gonna be power hungry and be like, you know what, let's decide to make make a sequel to this one. Um, please don't, because then that just ruins the experience. And plus, that's just gonna be like imagine the opening of that. Like, if I was to do that, imagine like the opening is like well, when did this one came out? 1983, right? Or 82. Um, so just okay. So just imagine like the film opens up um Halloween 1982, and you're just seeing a hospital full of like kids um dead with like parents screaming and stuff like that. And obviously, the big argument here about them, the whole thing is I mean, his sister said like this was probably televised internationally. Um, the other thing most people are um will try to decipher about this is that like you know, uh don't miss the big giveaway at seven o'clock. And some people are like, well, which time zone are we talking about? The the Eastern time zone or the western time zone. You know what I mean? Because if it was just on one side, I don't I don't remember which is east and west, which is like New York and Florida, and then which is California. All I know is one side of the one side of the map is definitely gonna get the notification that hey, um, a bunch of kids are dying in a hospital on the this side of the map. Make sure they're not wearing those masks. But I mean, it could also be like, you know, so what is it, seven o'clock? I'm trying to remember. I'm not good with east and west, guys. I only know north and south. So let's just say seven o'clock New York, New Jersey, Florida time. Um, if assuming that's all the same time zone. Um, we get it's that time, and then probably like five o'clock central and four o'clock. However, the time works, guys. I'm not I'm not one of those folks that focuses on like the different time zones and all that. But what we're saying is majority, only one side of the globe or one side of the US can have an epidemic of dead children from you know these masks, while the central and the other time zone, I only know central for from the way, um, hears about it and they're like, make sure these kids don't uh wear the mask. The thing though is that like for people on one side of the globe, or even in general, it's kind of hard to get those masks off in time because you don't know like if if they die in an instant or they die um or it takes a matter of seconds or minutes to die. I mean, we did get that one scene where the boy dies um wearing the mask as they were testing it out, but that could just be a test, you know. What if like it's just um an explosion or something? Because remember, there was this scene by the way, Garfest, obviously, this one has a lot more of it too. Um, but I was gonna say, you saw that one scene where this woman like is picking at it, and you see this beam of light just hit her face, and her face is just like melted, her lips are gone too. Yeah, I'm fast. Yeah, okay. So if I'm if we were gonna play this out before we go on break, I would say, like, nostalgia-wise, yes, Halloween 1978 um is always gonna be there. My number one, but and I'm gonna be honest, guys, but and I think I'm gonna lose people. But like I said, I will always love Halloween 1978, one of my top five best horror films of all time. Technically, number two. Um, no, number one's the witch, if you guys want to know that. Um, but what I'm trying to say is I love Halloween, but I'm gonna admit it, it's overrated. Like it is overrated, it's always been talked about. Michael Myers is obviously the famous, you know, serial killer. Um, because it's like if somebody mentions anything negative about Halloween, the whole world just like loses their mind. I feel like he fledger with that meme. And everyone loses their mind. Like, that's pretty much how yeah. I I love it, it's overrated though, but I'll still love it. I mean, unless you have the same thought.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I gotta tell you, um, I still think it's the greatest horror film ever made. So, I mean, unfortunately, I can't really say the same sentiment about overheateness or overratedness. But um, yeah, I mean, we we we can't we cannot give full credit. Well, I'm sorry, we can we can give Halloween full credit as a contributor to this last year genre, but we cannot ignore what follows it. We can't we can't ignore the one outlier of the whole franchise when it's the one that actually stands out from both good and bad.
SPEAKER_00But I will admit that that Halloween 3 has becoming more has become a lot more underrated, and now again people are liking it more. I think it's actually getting more um re-releases of in the theaters than the original. I remember I saw the original in theaters in 2020, um, because remember back then we had the uh the uh very larger epidemic. Um, and you know, most movies were not being shown because of that. So most movie theaters decided to re-release films, and then um that's when like a lot of theaters decided to re-release um classic horror films, Halloween being one of them. Um it's such a thrill to watch it in theaters, actually. Um, but now they're showing a lot more with uh season of the witch. Um, but like I said, nostalgia-wise, I love Halloween. But you know what? If we're looking at like gore and scare factors, and um, you know, even around the holiday, Halloween three kind of beats the cake because remember, Halloween is more just takes place on Halloween. Same thing with all the other movies that have Michael Myers in it, it just takes place on Halloween, he's just roaming around. Um, but Halloween season of the witch is more about the holiday, so that's where Halloween three kicks the edge. Story-wise, I mean, y'all know me, I go for more what's more believable, even though yes, Halloween, these are fiction films. Um, but story wise of what's more believable, yes, Halloween, the original takes the cake. Um, but I mean, people will always like have this be have this and be like, yeah, I mean, I prefer Halloween three because it's not the one with Michael Myers. It's I respect though, because again, we kind of have that fatigue of it. Um, or some people will watch the original because it started off this of this whole event of slashers, though some people will say, you know, Black Christmas or um the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was the one that started the slasher genre. But Halloween, the original kind of like set up the rules, like same something that if you've ever seen Scream, um you you you know what the rules are with uh Jamie Kennedy's um character. But um, yeah, that's that's the first franchise that has the one versus three where fans will be like, I will always love the First film, and then fans will be like, Well, you need to give the third film a chance because it's actually a pretty great storyline. But um, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and then when we get back, um, we're gonna talk about another film where fans aren't really divided amongst the the series. It's more like um the inner fan. I'll get back to you when we get off a break. So we're heading into break. All right, we're coming back. All right, our next series that we're gonna talk about in our one versus three film is um a nightmare on Elm Street and then a nightmare on Elm Street, Dream Warrior, which is again the third film of the entire series. Um, what I mean, what I was trying to get was like it's not divided amongst fans or whatever, it's just more like between each fan of um or from each fan of the the entire series. A nightmare on Elm Street and the Nightmare on Elm Street 3 Dream Warriors, fans themselves are conflicted, like, oh man, which one's better? The first or the third film? Even I'm I I'm sometimes like that. First of all, Jesus, have you actually seen Dream Warriors before we continue?
SPEAKER_02Uh, we'll be honest. Um, when I received okay, so I uh I received the um the box set. I'm sure I sent you a picture of that. So the two films I mostly remember, besides Freddie versus Jason, I'm just thinking of like like that, that's that's the obvious one. It's one in five. So I still remember a bit of things from three, because I mean, how could you not? There's some of the some of the best scenes of the franchise are in that in that third installment. But um, overall, like as a film and I guess the plot, I'll I'll be honest, I I'd have to sit down and watch it again. But I do I do I do like if you if we're still contributing to this, I mean I guarantee you I'm still gonna bring up some of those moments that I remember very closely. So it still works out. But yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So in case you might have forgotten, it's obviously takes place in a in a mental institute where um the last set of kids of Elm Street who were um whose parents were the ones that burnt down Freddie Krueger, um, they're the last set, and their deaths is what Freddie needs to be whole again or something like that, or to enact his revenge, I would say. Um, because if you know the story of Freddie Krueger, um, everyone, you know that he was um a murderer of children. He was supposed to be a lot more, but Wes Craven, R.I.P. Um, it's actually been 10 years since he passed away. Um, Wes Craven uh decided to change the um the story like that, him just being um a murderer instead of both a murderer and a predator. Um, because there seems to be a lot of that going on in the 80s. There's still a lot of that going on now. But um, were you gonna say something?
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, I I guess what I could do is uh don't mean to be like this this person who says actually well, actually, um, but uh I did watch the first one again uh last week and not entirely sure, but I I think I remember distinctly um Nancy's mom when she was explaining why they had to do it. I don't think they ever mentioned that he was a predator. I just think they mentioned him as a child murderer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, that was um that was originally what was decided to have both both of that, but he kept it as a child uh murderer. But um obviously the remake kind of went in that direction. I mean, hold on, side note, which by the way, like again, the remake wasn't that great. Um, I don't blame Jackie Earl Haley because he was given the role, and it's kind of hard to pick up a mantle of a famous character, especially from Robert England. So that's that's what I want to get off my chest. But what you were gonna say something else?
SPEAKER_02No, sorry. I I was just going to uh agree with you with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but um, and trust me, uh the the remake is not the worst of the series. I mean, the series has some pretty bad ones. The first and the third film are kind of the what uh connects the two, mostly because of Nancy, uh played by Heather Lang Lang Langon. Do you remember how to pronounce her name? Legen Camp. Langen Camp, okay, which his sister and I are probably gonna try to meet at a King of Horror convention in San Antonio. Um, anyway, uh Hassi and I were we're planning on meeting her along with another horror legend, Kane Hodder. Um, who knows where this goes, but to our point, aside from Lori Strode and um Sally Hardenstein, um has not has it, but Nancy is the the well, one, she's the goat of the final girls, and two, because if you actually ever think about it, I think she's the first final girl that's ever fought back against the character. If you ever actually look yeah, because if you look back, especially with the Friday the 13th movies, they all just try to run away, um, which is the smart thing to do, first of all. But Nancy, uh yeah, she's got the balls to say, nah, nah, I'm I'm going after this one. But and she's the smartest of them all, too. But I think that's why people also lean towards the um the third film a lot more, is because it's like she's passing on the torch to the next final girl, which is Patricia Arquette's character. I forgot her name. So unfortunately, she doesn't come back for the next film. But I remember sitting at um it was I was at a convention in Dallas uh called Texas Frightmare. And it was a um there was a it was a panel of the Dream Warriors in. And it's not only that, it Heather Langencamp is also the first um like Heather Langencamp became a final girl herself because uh Wes Craven's a New Nightmare made a um a meta version of the film to where Freddie is an entity that uh Craven Wes Craven had to, I guess it's been a while since I've seen that. All I remember is it's definitely top three for like Freddie Krueger films. Uh but it's like if you take uh Freddie's um man, what's it what was it called? If you take away New Nightmare away from away from it as being part of the uh the franchise, it's actually a great film on its own, separate from the franchise, but part of a Freddie Kruger film, it's definitely top three for me was um that Nightmare on O Street and Um Yeah, the Dream Warriors. Um something I found out interesting is that Dream uh a character named Kincaid, um, he's a black character, and at that panel he said, if you ever look at the history of horror films, I am the first black man to ever survive a horror film, which I think that was pretty interesting. The sad part is that in the next film he does die. He was actually the first one to get killed. So, yes, sometimes the trope of the black man always dies first doesn't happen all the time, but it it does happen, um, unfortunately. But I remember some people were like, if they should ever touch this film again, which if you've ever read the news and all that, um, that's gonna be unlikely. Even then, even if like things surrounding the series um isn't making the news, which it is now, y'all can look that up. We also still have to have the fact that Robert England is approaching 80 at this point, and um, like you you can't really expect him to go back as Freddie Krueger. Unfortunately, I think Freddie versus Jason, Jason, Freddie versus Jason might be his last performance. And as much as I don't want that to happen, because I think he he deserves a better send-off, it's kind of hard given his age, and the fact that I don't think there's much he can do. However, he is getting a star on the Walk of Fame on Halloween, so that's very fitting. But I think like what makes Freddy Kruger like one of the um one of the scariest um characters in all of horror, especially because he was called like the scariest uh horror film character, is because a he appears in your dreams, which is like I mean, people sleep, and yes, there are people who can die in their sleep, but that's scary, that's a scary thought, to be honest with you. Um, and Freddy Krueger can just invade them. And dude, it's okay. You know what? I agree. I actually agree. He actually is pretty scary. I'm not gonna lie. He never gave me nightmares. I was never scared of him.
SPEAKER_02What imagine imagine if like you put away if you're thinking spiritually here, you put away you put away the uh the idea of yeah, it's it's he's like an entity where he can be this. I like to see him as uh a demon. I mean, he he's he was a person just like just like you and I did some very horrible things, paid the price for it, but he ascended to a whole different, very, very, very bastardly uh idea, concept. So now he's not just uh what he used to be. He can the fact that he can enter any person's mind at any given moment because he's been given that power is correct is is really terrifying, especially with the seventh film, because that's how it kind of feels like to me. It feels like Wes Craven decided he's not a character from a fictional world, he's a demon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think if they were gonna do a a legacy sequel, they should do it. Well, they kind of did a short film based off the um the new the new nightmare timeline, um, which is actually really cool. Um, they just couldn't get obviously they couldn't get Robert England back. Um, but if they do a legacy, which god forbid, but people are power hungry, but like I said, if you've read the news lately, might not actually happen. But uh to my point, if they decide to do that, they should do it based off the Dream Warriors because I mean, I don't know. Always thought if they'd do Freddie versus Jason again, that it should be a legacy sequel to not Freddie versus Jason, the first like the first film, but like a legacy sequel to a nightmare on Elm Street 3 or just a nightmare on Elm Street, as well as out whatever Jason film is out there, um, whether it's two, three, um, four, whatever, whichever one it is. That that's what I think they should do. Because then it actually brings the protagonist of the two films together. Because I think that's what that's where Freddie versus Jason filled. Is yes, they've had a whole new set of characters, but do you really care about them? Because Lori in this film is not Nancy, and she's not um man, it's hard to think of a really great Friday the 13th Final Girl.
SPEAKER_02The only one I could think of is you you can really say, you could honestly say one of the best ones is either uh I forget her name, or at least even the actors like the actress's name is the final girl in part two.
SPEAKER_00That's what I was thinking of. The final girl in part seven. Okay, part seven. Um well, unfortunately, I think the actress in part seven died like not too long ago. Maybe it would be interesting though, because and we are we're probably gonna end up going to Jason during this, but it because if you think about it, it will be interesting to see Nancy team up with a different final girl. Obviously, it's not gonna be Lori because um, like not Lori Friday Freddie versus Jason, I mean like Lori from Halloween, because uh David Akkad, um, not only was he fulfilling his father's contract to make sure that Michael doesn't die, part I think part of the contract was Michael cannot interact with um a slasher from a different film, and I think um fans have wanted that to happen, but we don't think it's ever gonna happen. Um, but the thing is that like Freddie versus Jason has been a dot since um Jason goes to hell. But to my point, it would be very interesting that like if they bring Heather back for a legacy sequel with um with uh you know one of the Friday Final Girls. But back to the point, um, if we wonder like why people have been liking the third film a lot more than the first film, because people are like, Well, come on, the first film is what started Freddie Krueger in the first place. Yes, but the third film gives something that not only have I seen in the series, but I've seen, but I haven't seen anything in any other slasher film. And if that's these kids are actually working together, you watch the same slasher films over and over again, and it's the same kids that are getting drunk, getting high, having sex in the midst of their friends getting slaughtered by a madman. While these kids are like, No, we gotta work together to stop ready. And and it's interesting because like they're like, Man, in my dreams, because they all have like troubled paths in their in their lives, and in their dreams, it's an escape. But since there's like a like an entity out there that um is disrupting them, their escape is like no more. So now with them together, it it can like build up to like man, we could stop this. And the more I'm talking about it, the more I'm thinking, like, okay, you know what? Maybe I do prefer um dream warriors over the first film. Because I mean, hold on. If I think about this, Freddie in the in the original Nightmare on the Street is scarier because just the way he's lit, and it's because it's the first time we've ever gotten you know Freddie Krueger. So he's scarier in the first film, and I think even in um New Nightmares, he's not as scary because I think Dream Warriors is where you actually get Freddie, like, and what I mean by Freddie, I mean like the personality, the jokes, and all that, especially that one line where he kills that he kills that one teenager. I'm pretty sure that's he might remember you with the TV. Welcome to Pride Time Prime Time. Oh man, so that's where like people we actually start getting like the this whole like jokes aside or Freddie telling jokes. You get what I mean? So I this I guess now as I talk about it a lot more, I think I'm leaning towards towards uh Dream Warriors a lot more, and I think I want to talk about Freddie a little bit more because last year we never had a chance to talk about its 40th anniversary. Um, but um it's I think it's a really great film that I think y'all should check out. One, one, three, and definitely um part um seven. All the other films are I mean, they're not copy and paste. Well, kind of, but you know, it's just the same thing with the slash film unless you got something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you just tell it like it is. I mean, it's basically copy and paste, but but uh but but every every single one of them has their own niche flavor, if you know what I mean. Every one of them has something that makes them stand out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And then the the other thing is um, and I think um sometimes I wish that they they ended at the third film. And the reason being is because like um Nancy does die in the third film, but she dies doing what she can to stop Freddy, which I think like continuing on kind of dishonors the legacy of Nancy, which um was obviously um fixed with New Nightmare. It was the first film, it's always gonna be one, it's always gonna be remembered as Johnny Depp's debut, in case y'all ever wanted to know. Johnny Depp's debut was a nightmare on the street. Um, famous kill was obviously him getting sucked in the bed and that fountain of blood just shooting to the ceiling. Um, so I actually know the well, the least okay, the most underwhelming kill was obviously the boyfriend of the of the first girl, but the famous kill was the bedroom scene, if that's where you're gonna go with.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I was gonna tell you as a kid when I first watched this film, um, that scene was something like for me as a kid, really terrifying to the point where I was having nightmares. Because the fact that you have Tina as the first girl being dragged up to the ceiling, like exorcist style, is that that's scary as heck. And after watching it, it still gives me goosebubs. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think um first films are always good at setting up what we're gonna come to, which is something I didn't talk about in Halloween, but that again, that's also because Halloween was intended to be an anthology series. So, with that, I would say more of like what John Computer Carpenter always has a struggle saying his name. I think what he was trying to do is like, okay, what story is gonna live up to the previous film? Which again, they've we've never got that. Here it's like, what are we going to live up to uh Nightmare on El Street? We already know part two. There was a lot going on um that we're not gonna get into that much, but let's just say, um, I mean, if you know the story, you know the story about the five uh the final guy of that film. Um, not not I'm not talking about like in the film, I'm talking about like the filming. You get what I mean? It was supposed to be like an like outing, I guess you could say, our main character or our main star.
SPEAKER_02If we're we're gonna be over here and bring up a little politic, uh this is basically every liberal's um, every almost the majority of every liberal is gonna say he is the best final girl.
SPEAKER_00I think there was a documentary called that. Um I think it was called Screen Queen about his story, about like him getting outed and stuff like that. And I like how I said we weren't gonna get into it, but we actually ended up doing so. But the third film, uh, I mean, going back to the third film, again, if I think about it, yeah, I think I prefer it a lot more. I know you haven't, it's been a while since you've seen it, so maybe maybe if you watch it again, you might have a different perspective. I mean, you'll probably still say maybe the first film, but who knows? Um, we'll might watch it together.
SPEAKER_02Um, that might be the case. Uh, I I am slowly watching these. Like it's it's obviously the month of October, and I decided this month, this month of this year is gonna be nightmare themed. So I'll be watching them uh once every week. I think this weekend, uh I'll uh hopefully get to watch the second film, see how that goes. And then the week and then the following week we'll watch three.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. One thing I didn't get to mention is that like if we could talk about these films, like in um what's the what's the word meme-wise? For Halloween, it was always that like um what is it that that's what I'm talking about? That's why he's the goat. Halloween three tends to get the uh, I mean, it's all right, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I think I saw one where it says, Hey, that's pretty good when they were talking about Halloween three. Um, but for Nightmare on Elm Street, it gets the that's what I'm talking about. And then the third film gets the Homelander, which I'm probably gonna meet at Big Texas Comic Con this year, so be keep an eye out for that one. But Halloween, not Halloween three, Nightmares on Street 3 gets the um, it was perfect. Perfect, but that's minute detail. I think that should something I should ask Anthony Star. How does it feel having that one line as like an essential meme talking about films and stuff? He probably might not know that, but we'll see. Um but I don't know, it's hard. Like as I were gonna, as you and I are probably gonna have to watch those, the at least like one and three.
SPEAKER_02We could probably watch two as well, but uh I I mean we we could we could watch one and three, but then at least if we we have okay, we'll watch one if we if we can try to watch one and three, we'll watch one and three. But I would really like to see part six because because of the of the glasses. I've never seen it in 3D, and since this came, I have pairs of glasses and I actually have enough for five of us. So even if we if we get Josh into this, if he wanted to come join along, we can all all four of us have glasses, and we'll get to see that and see how it looks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I know we were talking about Jason earlier. Uh his wanted to bring up Friday the 13th. Um, uh look, well, we could talk about it briefly, but as an honorable mention. But like as far as I can tell you amongst horror fans, amongst YouTube videos and stuff like that, I've never seen a lot of arguments on Friday the 13th and Friday the 13th part three, um, as like which one is better. And that's just mostly because, like, from rankings I've seen, they've never really made the top five, or and if they have, they're never together in the top five. And that's because uh Friday the 13th, if we were talking about copy and paste on everything. This is legit copy and paste. Every film is pretty much after the third after the first film is copy and paste. The only try they try to go different route with um King Hotter's films. They copied and paste, but they added on different, I mean, stories and stuff like that. Like part seven, which is actually a really good one. I I like um they call it Friday the 13th with Dollar Store Carrie, Friday the 13th on a bow, which is um part eight, I believe, which is considered like the worst one of King Hotter. Jason goes to hell, and then Jason X, which is it's just an Jason X, which is the last King Hotter film, should have been Freddie versus Jason. Nothing against Ken Kersinger, but should have been Freddie versus Jason.
SPEAKER_01Should have been King Hotter, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but I was gonna say Jason X is that is one of those so bad, it's good uh kind of films, which by the way, yes, we were gonna do. We originally proposed we were gonna do the room next time we met, but we're pushing that to November, just so y'all would know. But um, I've never really seen much argument of which one's better, the first or the third. I mean, I would say maybe yes.
SPEAKER_02I haven't actually seen any of myself either. I mean, as I was preparing for this uh for this episode, it you're you're on the ball. I haven't seen any comparisons. Oh, like saying, I mean, every one of them have something to go for. It's usually people just claim clamoring of who's the which one is the best film. And some people will straight up say, I like I like part five. It's surprising. Like, you know, like that's another thing in Pannaworms. And some people will still tell us, well, you if you separate one, because you it's just like Halloween, the first one is is the one that's the it's the one, it's the one that kickstarted it. It's it you can't compare it with any of their sequels. And so if you remove it and go just straight to Jason's films, everyone will always have a different opinion. So you can't really pinpoint it. But I will say this, I don't know how the 3D was back then in the 80s when this movie came out in the years.
SPEAKER_00I'm talking about part three. Moy Mal, that's what it was.
SPEAKER_02That's probably what it was. Yeah, but I'm not gonna, but I can't do not in 3D format for glory, they tried so hard to make that look 3D. Like this movie, even if it was bad looking in 3D, when my brother and I finally watched it the first time the way it was supposed to be seen, it looked great. Like I'm sitting here like I'm not comparing it to Avatar, obviously, but if you look at all the other 3D Schlock films that came out in this time, like I'm gonna tell you right now, Joss 3D, I'm gonna compare it with Joss 3D. Wow. The 3D in Friday part three is so believable compared to JAWS 3D. So believable. It's a once in a lifetime experience that I think when you if we can't watch Nightmare 1 and 3, I would love if you can just sit and watch Friday 3 the way it's meant to be seen. Because it's it looks good and you will actually have a differing opinion. Because originally I thought 3 is okay. But after watching it in that 3D aspect, dude, I'm sitting here like now it's in my top three for Friday.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think the only thing that makes I mean to most cases that makes three better than one. Is that one, it's not the only the fact that it's Jason that's the killer. Because if y'all, if y'all don't remember, don't know, the first film, Jason's not the killer, it's his mom. And the reveal is underwhelming because we're we were not introduced to Mrs. Voorhees until it is revealed that she's the killer. She's always been like we're always seeing the POV shot of her killing people, but we're not introduced to her until Alice, the final girl, sees the wreckage, and then she just shows up out of nowhere saying, Oh, I'm Mrs. Voorhees, the cook here. Then obviously we get the legend of Jason, stuff like that. But it's not only that, the third film is also the first time we've gotten Jason and the hockey mask. And again, if y'all didn't know this, when Jason came as a killer in the second film, he did not have the hockey mask on. He had um a bag like a bag over his head, which um RIP uh Steve Dash, who was Jason at the time, had a hard time seeing, which is contributes to most of the accidents he's had um in the film. Um, when they asked him to come back, he didn't want to because those films were very low budget and he had to pay for his own flight tickets and stuff like that. And not only that, he didn't want to go through all the the beatings as he took in the second film, which is why they got Richard Brooker R.I.P. Again, we've lost a lot of great uh Jason legends. Um, when he took on the film, Richard Brooker is I think the only, yeah, I think he's the only um Jason actor that's not American because Richard Richard Brooker was from England, but he was the first Jason to mantle the hockey mask, and then obviously it became a legend with the characters since then on. Um, most people, as as I said, a lot of people like part five because that's was um imposter Jason. Others like the remake, which came out in 2009, and then a lot of people like part four, which is the final chapter, and that's because of the Jason. The Jason in those films was a lot scarier the way he was lit, and the way the actors Ted White and Derek Mears, the way they interpreted him as like like he's barging through windows, he's flipping things around, he's lit so dark. I don't even think you could lit things dark, but the lighting is so dark on them that it just makes him so scarier. Um, I like part two. I think it's just because maybe I got I'm I'm tired of the hockey mask and would like to go back to the the sack the sack mask, even though this the the the pillowcase mask is pretty dumb unless you got you know that might end up happening.
SPEAKER_02I know I know I know we're all trying to be very hopeful that you know we can get more Friday films, but I mean who knows? What if what if the writer, what if the director fight again over who keeps the mask? And at that point, if they're desper if Hollywood at this point is desperate to make a film, they can really just they can literally just give us the the bean the potato bag. I mean, they can and we can just straight up accept it because it's Friday Friday 2 is literally just a potato bag, so we can accept that.
SPEAKER_00I would actually like to see like if they decide to do a Freddy versus Jason, if King Hodder, I mean King Hodder is already 70, he's dude, but he's still pretty built. But if he comes back, I would like to see him as potato stack Jason, even though obviously we synonymously know him as Hockey Mask Jason, but it would be interesting. Uh-oh, who knows? But anyway, uh we're gonna take another break right now and we're gonna go into our last segment. Hi, if you like our content and want to get more content, please follow us on Instagram at tough look pictures, along with our YouTube under Tough Love Pictures. All right, uh, welcome back. Our final um film series we're gonna talk about. Um, which I think a lot of people are leaning the third film more, and this is coming from people who are not fans of the films in general, or the first film in general. It's the Exorcist and The Exorcist III. Now, give and take, The Exorcist and The Exorcist III are the only good films in the entire series. Um, and I'm not even joking, like you go from Exorcist 2, the two prequels, and then the abomination we got not too long ago. Um, yeah, they're The Exorcist and The Exorcist III are the only good films in the entire series. I think I like The Exorcist III a lot more uh than The Exorcist. And I know um that's the film where if you grew up religious, Christian, Catholic, that's the one film where you were told to never watch, or if you have watched it, you'd be praying to God right after this film. Um which is I think what I did when I saw the film in theaters, because I remember seeing it on the television, or the British call it the telly, and I was like, it's not that scary when you watch it in theaters on D-Box. In case you don't know, D-Box is when the seat rattles, you get a whole way you saw that in D-Box. I did. No, I can't even do that. Well, I mean, you could you could turn off the rattling, but still. Um, yeah, you get a whole different experience. I will say though, it does have good cinematography, which gets overlooked all the time, especially the one scene where you see Reagan and the statue of Pazuzu.
SPEAKER_02If y'all don't believe him, just go ahead. If you don't like watching horror films, just watch Sorcerer from the same director, and you you understand exactly what he means.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I know you said you've only seen parts of the third film, right? Uh okay. Wait, I'm sorry, what I know you said you've only seen uh parts of the third film.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh I I've seen only parts.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, I mean it's still um it's still usable, but what why um a lot of people lean towards the third film more than the um the the original film is that a lot of people a lot of it comes from people who are not fans of the the film in general, like they can respect the arts and the craft that came into the first film, but without having it to be like your favorite horror film of all time, which is I mean, favorite horror films of all time is very subject subjective or I don't even know which is which, but you know, people can be like The Exorcist or Halloween or The Nightmare on Elm Street. For me, it's the witch. I like folklore horror, Robert Edgar's is the goat, and yeah, and then it's Halloween. The Exorcist is actually number five. Actually, no, yeah. I know I said I like um The Exorcist III a lot more, but I separate that from the series in general. And the the reason being that it's been a lot greater, as it's a greater film and trilogy, or the series, is because it's not treated like a supernatural horror film as the other films are. Yes, there is some supernatural elements and stuff like that, but it's treated it's treated more like a um a crime thriller, if you will. In case y'all don't know, the first film is obviously supernatural. We know the first film. It starts it stars um Linda Blair as Reagan, who um again gets possessed, and then she, you know, the mom has the mom Chris has to call upon um some exorcist to come and expel the the evil, the demon out of her. And then it ends with uh Father Karis jumping out of the window when Pazuzu enters him and then supposedly dying in the uh at the end of the film. The Exorcist 3 is more, as I said, a crime thriller, uh noir film. Because the characters in this film, like the characters in this film, believe it or not, are actually um the same like some some of the same characters from the first film. It's just that they were um they were just casted differently. The actor who played the original. Um, if I could look this up, but I know um George C. Scott, um, I know I know that George C. Scott played the cop in the third film, but he plays the cop or the detective that was um in the first film. It's just that the actor who played the cop or the detective really in the first film died, I think three years after um the exorcist. So if I can look it up real quick, yeah. So the character was Kinderman. Let's see, let's look at this real quick. Kinderman, yeah. So some of the some of the characters were recasted, um, either because um uh actor died, or um like the like the actor who played um Father Joseph Dyer in the first film, I think he was under scrutiny at that time. I don't remember. He was an actual priest, and um not to upset any of my fellow Catholics out there, especially one right in front of me, but um he was a priest if you get what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Uh oh yeah, I mean no don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um it's funny enough. I like Brad Doriff in this film. Like I said, I've never liked the Chucky films, those scared the shit out of me as a kid. They still do now, especially because I went to a um kind of a haunted house near my house um yesterday, and they had like live-size Chuck E dolls, and uh they were talking too. So yeah, that that that was my nightmare coming true. But Brad Doriff, first of all, is a really great actor, and I think the child's play films really hinder that. But him as um the Gemini killer, the entity in this film, is freaking amazing. Um, like I said, y'all, like I said, y'all should check out the Exodus 3, ignore all the other films in the franchise. There were two um prequel films. I know that they're the same story, well, supposed to be the same story involving the original um Father Marin, that though who was played by um Stanley Skarsgård for both films. It's just that one had the what people in the film community like to call studio interference, and then the other one was okay, um, it was Paul Schrader, who I think that was his name, Paul Schrader, who wrote um Taxi Driver. He was given that job to redo his own film. Because he wrote, I think he wrote both versions. They cut him out of directing on one film, and then when that when obviously how that turned out, um, they said, you know what, go back to directing what you originally wanted to do. Both films never came out the way they wanted it, and most people don't even know that there was a prequel, there were prequel films in the in general, but and it's interesting because like the third film, Brad Durf wasn't even supposed to be there. Jason Miller was supposed to be like act as he was possessed, he was supposed to act like he was possessed, but at that time, Jason Miller was unfortunately under the influence like a lot, and um, they were like, Oh my gosh, like we gotta figure this out. So that's why like you get that technique of like moments where like we're talking to the Gemini Killer, though the characters they see Father Karis. We see the Gemini Killer, but the characters in that film they see Father Karis. Um, and it's creepy, like there's like a scene where like we're introduced to the Gemini killer and Brad Duret's form, and he's talking about how like the thrill he sees of like a head being decapitated with blood coming out of that. Very I'm sorry guys, I should have put a disclaimer on this one, and then like that tone of his voice. Oh man, I don't know. You saw some of the clips with Brad Durf, right? In the as far as I know.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, I mean it's just Brad Durf.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's pretty much it. Oh, okay. So, but I mean, I like I still like the first film, it's a classic. I mean, a lot of people were always held back on that because I mean, again, if you grew up religious, I didn't really grow up religious. I've been around uh religion and Christianity my whole life, but I never really grew up uh religious. But uh my parent my parents sure have. My uh my mom definitely she's told me stories about when she was young and she saw the exorcist at a young age, and then she turned off the television and then had to walk through a dark hallway to get back to her room, and then sorry, mom for telling this story, and then unbeknownst to her, when she opened the door to her room, she forgot that she put a neatly placed doll on her bed, so that's literally the first thing she walks into a dark room coming out of a dark hallway. Well, I can't imagine what she was gone through, but yeah, no, it's um I know there's who who was it? I keep forgetting Mike Flanagan. There you go. I know Mike Flanagan has his film coming out in 2026. I don't know if it's a remake or if it's another legacy sequel, but if you know anything about Mike Flanagan, he's done the the hunting series Hill House and Blind Manor. I think he knows what he's doing. Regardless if it's if it's a remake or if it's a legacy sequel or maybe just a film on its own. I'd rather have it be a film on its own and be like, oh yeah, this reminds me of a time when there was a uh exorcism that happened like 50 years ago. You know, you can it can be part of the same universe without having it to be connected to um you know the films. I think that's something that people are tend to like. It's like you want to make a sequel to a film, but you try to make it too much of a tie-in to the first film. I think you should try to make a sequel to a film with only making callbacks rather than just having to get a legacy character. Hell, I mean, what was it? Ellen Bernstein didn't even want to come back, all right? And well, we know how that turned out if you've seen it. It's just more I mean money. Well, for her charity, but that's right, right.
SPEAKER_02But still, it the entire the enticement of money, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Ugh, not only that, like they try to make it look like and I'm not I'm not again not a theologian or whatever, but I'm just gonna say like not every religion ties in the same way as people have been trying to put it as. Um, because there's different theologies and um doctrines and stuff like that. Something people don't really talk about, or they they just ignore their like, oh no, it's uh it's all the same thing. Uh no, it doesn't. Trust me. If you actually did the history and the research and actually look into um some of their textbooks and stuff like that, it's not the same, which is what David Gordon Green was. I don't know why he was trying to attempt that. All I know is um actually, I don't even know what I know. All I know is that the first film is great, it's what kicked off a lot of um films. I mean, were you gonna say something?
SPEAKER_02No, well I was gonna just add on to your point. The first one's great, but the third one, I really do have to sit down and watch it because why why is it that that one is revered besides the first one? If you think about it, it's written by it was written by the same guy who made the original novel. So of course, I mean it's the one that Hollywood looked at and said, you know what, that'd be interesting to make into a film. So I mean, yeah, that's kind of why three does have its its um you know fan base, and I really do need to sit down and watch it um when when I'm actually able to, because um based on what you've seen on your experience, it's not really on the same level as The Exorcist in terms of like fear factor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The only thing, and I'm pretty sure you might have seen this, like it's all over the internet, but there's that one famous jump scare. And even if you've seen it on the internet multiple times, and then you watch it for the first time ever, it actually gets to you. Because what's different back then that's different now is that like you watch it now, and like if you've seen the clips before you've seen the film, and you're like, you know it's gonna happen, and then you're like, Oh, wow, okay, I did not see that coming, but I did I was supposed to see that coming. Like, it's weird, but I mean Scare Factor, yes, the first film definitely takes a cake. Um and it's definitely like the first, the only film where you don't sleep right for about a month until Christmas comes. Um, the third film, it just leaves you just thinking with certain stuff on your mind. Um yeah, I I mean maybe I do like the third film a lot more just because it's it's a whole different take of series. But um I know one last uh honorable mention we gotta we gotta talk about, or an embed and by we gotta talk about. I mean, Hassooth wanted to talk about was the Saw films again. There's not much arguments on those. I mean, aside from the third film, everything after Saw, you maybe even Saw 2, I'll count Saw 3 hasn't really been that good.
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, yeah, it's kind of weird, like they haven't been really good because they they you can tell right after three, you can tell they're kind of running out of ideas, but there are some very unique ideas in those films, like six. I really do I really do like the carousel trap. That's crazy. Um but besides the point, I mean the reason why I bring it up is because if you actually watch one and three, they really do besides interconnecting because they really do make connections and kind of give you reasonings as to why it further like this whole story is happening. Three actually has really nice moments and like character development wise, whereas in one we only could see the mind of uh of John Kramer through his victims. You only we can only really we didn't have a full picture of who he was in the first film, so that's what was nice about it because it was mysterious, right? It keeps you on edge because you don't know what he was gonna do in all the flashbacks. But by three, you already expect you already know who he is, so you're already expecting it. But then it's like the writers kind of like do this whole twist. It's like I think with the third film, we finally started getting like the whole, oh yeah, we're gonna go and make a twist. So that's why every single person that's like these films will go to watch because they want to see what kind of trick they're gonna pull up our sleeve. I think that's what three kind of established. And so when you look at it, I do like three. In terms of character development, it's been fleshed out. It should have stopped at three personally, but you know, in the end, it's an IP, it's gonna make money, gonna print money. And I'm glad it did because um, again, I'm going off a little bit off topic, but I but my favorite films are one, three, and saw X. That's that's why I'm gonna leave it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know not a lot of people didn't like three because I mean, like you liked the character. A lot of people didn't like the um uh first of all, sorry, mom. Uh second of all, a lot of people were very mixed on uh slow as motherfucking Jeff. Um, not my words, by the way. Um amongst the horror community and people who've seen the films, Jeff, our character that we follow, they call him slow as motherfucking Jeff because he took forever, but yes, he was fleshed out. And like, okay, I understand the slow part of him like taking his time walking through this maze of traps. I do also get the fact that like he's taking slow on deciding to forgive certain people around his son's death. That part I get because you're conflicted on the inside. Like, should I forgive this person or let them die? Um, but like taking your time to like go through this maze and your daughter, God knows where might not make it to the end of the night. Yeah, that's that's like I get the frustration there. The frustration on him with the games. I I uh I don't side with because again, he's conflicted on the inside. That again, do I forgive the witness who didn't speak out against the man who murdered my son? Do I forgive the judge for sentencing the man who lowered the sentencing term of my son's murderer? And do I forgive my son's murderer? So I understand like that's not a frustration, that's like what would you do in that situation? Um, yeah, I like three. I like you said, should have ended at three. I like four, two, I didn't like five, I didn't like seven. Um, I don't think I was really a huge fan of Jigsaw. I haven't seen um Spyro yet, so I had to look at that. But it looks very interesting, and I think it's like like if like we've said earlier, you take away that one film, separate from the rest of the films in the series, it's actually good on its own. Um but yeah, I think that's uh all I got. Um, that's all I got for this episode. Um might just do one more Halloween themed episode. I'll probably just do it by myself. Um but I don't know what I'm gonna talk about because um if I do talk about the third this next another or if I do get another Halloween themed episode, it'll probably be released on Halloween. I just don't know what to talk about. So I'll we'll cross that bridge when we get to it because there's a plus or things we can talk about, unless you got an idea. I mean, well, I'm drawing a blank here, but uh yeah, you get my point. No, yeah, that's a lot. Like I said, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Um, anyway, um that's um that's it for today's episode. Um, like I said, you can watch a first film or a third film. First films will always start it off. Third films might leave a legacy, and I don't know. We should always say they should always end that three because um, you know, I'm trying to think there's a lot of horror films that have bad sequels. I don't know where to lead off from here, other than unless you got some. Every single IP has had a bad sequel.
SPEAKER_02What you know, IP, yeah, and uh Nightmare has had bad sequels. Yeah, that's Friday has bad sequels. Bad sequels. Every IP has bad sequels, yeah. But we can't just eliminate them. They're here, they're gonna stay in the in the lore unless they're cut off, like Halloween has multiple timelines. Oh my god. Uh point is everyone's gonna love one film out of the franchise. And the good thing is that we're always happy to have opinions.
SPEAKER_00Yep. All right. Um gonna say the better myself. Not a bad way to end uh this episode off. All right, you guys have a wonderful night, day, morning, whenever you're listening to this. And yeah, we'll see you. Hopefully, uh, I guess hopefully we'll find something interesting to talk about. All right, y'all have a good time.