Episode 35

For the Halloween Episode of the podcast Gilbert talks about the 35 year impact of Stephen King's It. 

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Welcome to the podcast and welcome to today's Halloween edition of the podcast, or at least today's uh Halloween episode. And I don't mean like Halloween like the series, I mean like this is gonna be on Halloween. And as I said previous episode, I've never known whether what was I gonna talk about? I came up with so many ideas, and even then last night, I still didn't have an idea. I I didn't, but like the night before I recorded this, I had no idea. I had one idea, but I wasn't too sure yet. Next thing you know, I started watching the new show uh Welcome to Dairy on uh Max HBO Max and uh man for uh for a pilot episode it really makes me wonder how they're gonna go with this direction. Like if you've seen if you've seen the show, you've seen the show, at least the first episode, and you see and you can understand like how surprised I was. Um So I figure, you know what? I'll I'll definitely do. I mean, I had this idea in the beginning, and I wasn't too sure. Now I think I'm gonna do it. So for today's Halloween episode, I'm gonna talk about um it. And I don't mean like just the Andy Muschetti um versions of the show, and I'm not gonna do every episode of um Welcome to Dairy because we just only got the first episode. I believe the second episode is supposed to come out on Halloween, if not November 2nd. But either way, um I I'm gonna talk about not just again the the movies, the two movies with Bill Scarsgard. Definitely gonna be talking about the 1990 miniseries. Um I know people kept calling it a movie. It's not a movie, it's a miniseries. Um though edited together, and it's on HBO Max, the 1990 version with Tim Curry. Is uh yeah, it makes it edit it together, makes it a three and a half hour movie, which is longer than um the second film, and I do think that as a lot of people do think, the second film uh with Bill Scarsgard is way too long. Um so this is also gonna be a uh a two-parter. Um, like a lot of my uh podcast episodes. This one's gonna be about the cultural impact of you know it, like the first half and then the second half. I'm gonna do what I did with Avatar, which is basically do a comparison with the book, the miniseries, as well as with the um the duology film. Um, but the cultural impact, um, so when I first like it took me a long time, I think till I was about 18. Yeah. Maybe till I was about 18 that to uh watch it for the very first time. And I've only seen parts of it. I've only seen parts of the original uh uh miniseries with Tim Curry. For the record, guys, and no surprise to anybody, though it might be a surprise to folks, um, I actually met Tim Curry. Uh my sister and I went to Texas Frightmare, it was my first ever um Texas Frightmare convention. And uh the first person we both met was uh Tim Curry. I believe that was the first person we both met. It was uh it was actually pretty interesting. Um as we all know now, Tim Curry, um, he's he's wheelchair bound. He uh he had a stroke. I think in the early 2000s or late 2000s, I don't remember. And um it it kept him so impaired. Like he he hasn't spoken properly. I think up until recently, he's been wheelchair-bound. Um, they say he can walk, but it's like it's daunting on him. So that's why like he stays in a wheelchair and that's why he also like doesn't talk too much. But despite all that, he still likes to do fan conventions, which man, like I give it to him. Like doing fan conventions while being wheelchairbound and like with less speech, I give it to him. I think he just doesn't do panels anymore. And I think the reason obviously the reason why he doesn't do panels anymore is because panels require a lot of talking and um but I mean the the original like I was okay, so I seen the covers, I seen some of the clips before I ever saw the entire series, but like the pennywise before I even knew it was pennywise, but the it, like Tim Curry's it, Tim Curry's Pennywise scared the shit out of me as a kid. And again, I haven't even seen the entire the entire series or the the mini-series. So I was scared to even watch it. Like, I don't know, it just freaked me out. Because for the record, guys, I'm not afraid of clowns. I'm afraid of scary ass clowns. There's a difference. I know there there is a clown phobia. It it exists. I don't have it. I only have the phobia of scary ass clowns. Y'all remember back in like 2016 when there was the uh the clown sightings where people would put on like scary masks of clowns and they would just either stand there or they would like chase you off. Sometimes I felt like there's an actual psychopath like in that in that costume, in that clown costume. It was man, I'm glad they don't do that anymore, but god dang, bro. Like and they gotta be specific on where you uh where they do this stuff because if they do this stuff like in the west side of San Antonio, they're gonna get run over. Um because you uh you're in Vato territory, like you you definitely like you don't wanna you don't wanna mess with like hooded Mexicans, man. Like the ghetto Mexicans, you don't wanna mess with those. You don't really want to mess with most minorities too. Um but yeah, I mean I'm not afraid of clowns, I'm just afraid of scary clowns. And Pennywise was a scary clown. Um but despite all that for years the uh like pen like it Pennywise has had a cultural impact for a long time and it still does. I mean, I think it wasn't a convention, so and um here in San Antonio we have this big mall called the Wonderlands of America, and its big attractions are just having like mini cons. So um King of Horror, um, which I guess is the one that organizes the mini cons. Um, I think I think it is King of Horror, but the the organizers will find like will make up a theme like almost every weekend, or at least some weekends, where it's like, hey, uh we have um, you know, the uh Queen of Horror convention happening, though it's not really a convention, it's more like a Queen of Horror event, and they get like some like actresses to from horror films to be in the like in the event. The reason why like are uh so they get only get like maybe six six people. It's not like a big convention where it's at a like a big uh venue where it's like you got these panels and stuff like that. Majority of these like little events are done by vendors that have like the Funko Pops, the t-shirts, posters, old time VHS tapes. I've seen those uh video games, and they're always hosted at the Wonderlands of America. Sometimes I don't like going in that in the area because like if you live in uh San Antonio, you know about Balconey Heights and you know about Balcone Heights Police. Recently they decided to do a 35th anniversary of um it of Welcome it was called Welcome to Dairy. Uh the Welcome to Dairy 35th Anniversary because it's been uh 35 years since the original 1990 uh miniseries came out. They got four, I believe four out of the seven, I think it was four or five. It might have been five. Yeah. Uh it they got five out of the seven like original kids, like the original Losers Club, uh to come back. Something I never um brought up. When I did my uh my 27 Club um episode, and I I might have forgotten him, or maybe I I did bring him up a little bit. I just don't remember. I have to look back at it or at least listen to it again. Um Jonathan Brandeis. Jonathan Brandeis, who played Bill, like the younger Bill in the original 1990, um, was well well died at 27 years old back in like the early 2000s. He uh fortunately um took his own life. And I was watching a little documentary on Amazon where where they're talking about making um it, and that documentary is actually pretty cool. Um, you should go check it out. Uh Emily Perkins, who played, I believe, the original Bev. Emily Perkins said like that shook the entire cast by storm. And the reason why it's it's it's just because he was young, he was 27, some of the cast knew him. He's not the first to um he's not the first of the cast to unfortunately uh pass away. Um I think around the same year. Yeah, I think it was the same year. Oh man, let me look him up. Um, I forgot what his real name was, but he played the adult Ben, well, in it 1990, so I mean he was known for uh coming on three's company, so let's see. Yeah, I knew the name would sound familiar. It was John Ritter. I think John Ritter and Jonathan Brandeis both died the exact same year. I think John Ritter died of a heart attack. Um, and it was sad because he he had a show. Like he had a show going on, and I don't remember if it was like they were already in the first couple of episodes of the second season, or they just ended doing the first season. I just remember that uh Katie Sigal from uh Sons of Anarchy, Futurama, and Married with Children. Um her character like you know made a tribute to uh John Ritter's character. I forgot what the show was called, and I don't feel like looking it up right now, but the um he's not the only one. Um I can also remember So give me a second, y'all. Yeah, Harry Anderson, who played uh Richie, I think died not too long ago. I think it was what like 2018? 2019, let's see. 2018, yeah. So a year after the uh like the film, the actual film came out. And it's always funny how like one of uh Seth Green's early stardom was um well, was that now I'm thinking about it, it may be four out of the five losers because so I know the older Ben wasn't there, and I know Seth Green wasn't there at that little con. I didn't get a chance to go um just because of money issues. And it's funny because like the events are free at the Wonderland of America. They don't charge you um general admission or parking as a lot of conventions do. Um, it's free because like it's nothing big, it's always like like less than 10 celebrities, and they're just doing autographs and pictures all day. Uh no uh panels, um, you know, no Q ⁇ A sessions or whatever. It's just um it's just you know signing autographs, taking pictures, stuff like that. But yeah. As far as I can tell you, other than Seth Green, Emily Perkins also kind of does some has had a career. I'm trying to think, I think she did Ginger Snap. I've never seen the movie. So if you have, reach me out at my Instagram at Tough Love Pictures where I keep the podcast on. Is she in Ginger Snap? I believe she is. Um, she's also came out in Supernatural. Um, who who does she play? She played like a very obsessed fan of Sam in Supernatural. Everybody else, I don't really see um anything from them unless it's like something small. Another actor who played Young Ben and um in the 1990s came out in the sequel, um, the 2019 sequel of it. He didn't play the older Ben though. That would have been an interesting uh that would have been an interesting casting. It would have been an interesting casting if they casted like some of the young folks from the 1990s series and they played older ver the uh the older the older versions of um the losers club and the uh the 2019 movie. Yeah, that would have been an interesting uh interesting casting. But um it still has a cultural impact today. Tons of people still portray the uh the Tim Curry version of Pennywise. Um I like Tim Curry's I think I like Tim Curry's version more than I like Bill Skarsgard, because Bill Skarsgard or Tim Curry, given the fact you have to remember that this was a show that was on ABC. Um so it's like Tim Curry had to be creepy, but not too creepy because this was television. But I think he had that right mix of like being being a clown, like acting as the clown, as well as um like being evil, you get what I mean. I know in that documentary, Tim Curry hated the spider ending. Everybody uh hated the spider ending. The director of the film, which we never actually mentioned in our three vs. uh one episode, the director of um Halloween three is the same director for the It miniseries, Tommy Lee Wallace. The television producers, Tommy Lee Wallace, Tim Curry, when they found out that it's I guess final form, or it's hard to explain that. I'll talk about it more in the second half, but like like the final form they took on the the Losers Club is um is well, you know, a giant spider, and that wasn't scary. Yeah, the the spider just looked goofy, and like Tim Curry had the idea, and I think they should have done it, which is um like have Pennywise's face like on the head of the spider. I mean it would have looked goofy, remember? Like the effects in that film you see is like very, very dated. You know, remember? It was made in 1989, came out in 1990. I mean, when I first saw the effects, I didn't pay attention. Second time around, I thought I was like, oh gosh, like dude, this is like like you can tell this was made for television. Um, but it's like the the creepy thing that really freaked me out about uh Tim Curry's Pennywise was that scene where like they're the kids are looking through that photo album and they see like Pennywise like in the foreground of a picture or in the background of a picture coming forward and just popping out saying, I'll kill you all. That line does come into effect a lot more in the second film or at least in the remake or in the film. It's hard to talk about because people are like, Well, it isn't really a remake, it's it's a first film. You get what I mean? Like people call the it movies remakes when I don't think they're remakes, they're they're just uh the first they're just a different adaptation of the book. So it's the first film adaptations while the set while the the series is a television adaptation, and then of course Annie Muschetti, now who who directed the two films, the It and It Chapter 2, is doing the entire uh show, which I might not talk about like at all up until like right now, just because like I just finished watching it, and uh yeah, um, but the 2017 and the 2019 uh adaptations really made an impact on a lot of younger audiences because um I mean the cast now, like the Losers Club cast now have a bigger uh they have like a lot of like bigger projects. We all know Finn Wolfhart who played Richie in the in the movies. He comes out in Stranger Things, he plays one nerd to another nerd. Um and it's always interesting to see him in that role just because like when you watch him in Stranger Things and then when you watch him like in It, it's it's so different. Um I mean and I mean like he's the most like popular out of the entire uh like out of the entire cast. Um the who else? Who who is it? Jon Jonathan Gla not Jonathan Glazer. Let me see. Who else? I know Soph Sophie Lillis, I think that's how you pronounce her name. Um I think she does stuff, but I haven't seen her in anything else. But uh Wyatt Olof, who played Sally, uh was acting before it, he he played the younger um the younger Star Lord in um well Guardians of the Galaxy. So so yeah, uh Jack Dylan Grazer, who played uh Eddie in the who played Eddie in the movies, um, the younger Eddie. I mean he he did the Chazam movies, and I don't think I've seen him in anything else. Chosen Jacobs who played Mike. I don't I have I don't think I've ever seen him in anything else. Um and then who who was it? Jaden Mar Martell. I only heard of one thing from him, and that was the Lodge, and that's something that got spoiled uh for me. Um if you've ever seen The Lodge, you know like what it is. Oh, I forgot he came through knives out. But yeah, I don't I don't see much from him. It's usually like Finn Wolfhard. That's about it. Um, but the casting of um the older versions, like like I was too young to even know who the original older casts were for the 1990s series because I know they were popular was television audiences because they used to be television. I know John Ritter was more popular for Three's company. Annette O'Toole, um she was our I know I knew about Annette O'Toole who played uh the older Beverly in the 1990 film or the 1990 um television series. I know Annette O'Toole from Smallville because I used to be a big fan of that show. Um she played Lana Lang and Superman 3, but I don't know what else she's done um besides that. Um but everybody else, I mean I I've never I never seen a lot of old like old TV shows from like 70s, 80s, 90s. I've never even seen Three's Company. I just know about the plot, which is an interesting pot. I mean an interesting plot for a film that takes place in the 70s. If you've never heard of Threes Company, just look it up. But the the for modern audiences now with the with the uh double film or the duology films. Um, like I knew about Jessica Chastain, James McAvoy. Bill Hader was always like the one that's like really Bill Hader as original. It's like I saw it, but it was weird, it was a weird choice. But um James Ranson, Andy Bean, I never heard of them, and then as I Mustafa, like the face was familiar because he came out in some Old Spice commercials, but yeah, I've never seen him in anything else. The interesting thing about um the 2017 and 2019 movies is that like you know, Bill Scarsgard is Pennywise. I do think he's a lot more better as uh Count Orlock than he is as Pennywise because he plays two separate kinds of evil, you know what I mean? Like Pennywise is the clown, but most people well when they think of it, they think of Pennywise the Clown. But a lot of people forget that Pennywise um is the form, a form it usually takes, which is why you're not gonna see Pennywise until probably like the last episode of um Welcome to Dairy. Because they want us because I know the Musquetis want us to want it what they want to remind us that Pennywise is a form and Pennywise isn't even what it's called. We don't know what it is, we just know it's a shape-shifting entity that feeds off the fears of people and it takes on their forms. So there is that. But it's a lot more prominent in the movies than it is in the 1990 series, which I'll definitely talk about in the second half of the uh of the uh the episode. But I mean, like Pennywise looks like the Pennywise in the 2017-2019 looks like an evil clown, but the reason why I say like the 1990 version I prefer more is because the pennywise doesn't entirely look like an evil clown. Though I do feel like they should I don't know, what they should have done was like make the clown look less evil like a joking clown, and then it just somehow forms into an evil-looking clown. That would have been interesting, actually. That's something I would have done. Um, but if you ever want to like look at um more of of all this stuff, like the horror histories of like, you know, the losers club or even the Bowers gang or Pennywise itself, check out CZ's World's um, I don't know him personally, but uh shout out to him. Uh I forgot what his name is, but um he does kind of look like Andy Muschetti. Um a younger, skinnier version of Andy Muschetti. But uh yeah, check out CZ's World's horror history where he dives deep into like the lores and stuff. Um but yeah, uh I remember when I saw the first film at theaters, the 2017 one with my mom. We were in D-Box seats. My first experience, D-Box, if y'all don't remember um what D-Box is, um, it's Seat That Rattles with the movie, so yeah. Um just imagine watching that, and that was again my first D-Box uh experience. But um, I was curious how they were gonna do with the second film. Because some of the kids, um, I know like Sophia Lillis really wanted um Jessica Chastain, and I know um uh Finn Wolfard really wanted Bill Hader, and everybody else just wanted different uh actors. Um, some they weren't like set on the actors that they wanted, but you know, I think the casting was really interesting, especially James McAvoy as uh Bill. Always thought it was funny how like you just see James McAvoy like duttering and all that. Um, but yeah, and then yeah, I remember watching the 2019 uh sequel. It was really late. I don't think we got out till like 2 a.m. Oh man, I don't know why they had to make it two hours. Like they really tried to expand so much into the second film. I don't think they needed to, like, or wait well, it was not two hours, but like three hours, but still, they expanded way too much, and I feel like they should have just condensed it to at least two hours because you don't need to extend too much of the plot into like nearly three hours, but I don't know. The other the one thing I do have issues on this same thing I had issues with the first uh adaptation was the effects, and something that it's still a problem with Andy Muschetti, even when I saw the flash. Uses too much CGI. Now I understand sometimes it's easier than trying to go practical, like having to see uh having to see like Pennywise take the shape and stuff like that. That's I know that's difficult, but I mean like some editors are able to capture stuff like that, you know, with just editing, with just editing. But I mean I'm I'm not gonna judge him too much on that. I just feel like he should have toned it down a little bit more. Um, especially with like the other forms of pennywise, like The Leper. I think the Leper was CGI. It could be, I think uh no, the leper wasn't CGI. That one he should have stick with the giant tall woman and the uh what is it the sequel that Beth sees. I mean they could have done like they could have done um practical, but I don't know. Maybe I'm just maybe I just like nitpick so much. But uh anyway, um I think that's much of an impact as I can think of. Um it's not more of an impact, it's just more of like what I thought about though. But uh anyway, we're gonna take another we're gonna take a break right now, and uh we'll definitely do some more. So I'll be back. Alright, now we're gonna do the uh comparisons of the everything. And this is probably gonna be the long part. Uh so bear with me. Grab your coffee, your energy drinks, um, and happy Halloween, because this is what we're doing on Halloween, y'all. So, biggest first, um, the biggest let's just get this out of the way. Yes, the one thing that was alluded in both the 1990 miniseries and the original film. I wouldn't say original film, but I Least in the 2017 film, was obviously the the scene, like the scene that involved the kids in the sewers after they took down Pennywise. Oh man, you you guys know what I'm talking about. If you if y'all don't know what I'm talking about, Google it, because it's it's a weird saying it because, like, we're talking about kids that are like 11 and 12 years old. That should already give you some explanation. Because like, okay, so Beth says like it's supposed to be like a symbol of like how much she loves these guys. That that's way too much love to give at one point. But it also it it goes back to another scene in the book that was alluded from both the miniseries as well as with um the uh the first the first movie. It involved Patrick Hoxtedter and uh um what was it, hen Henry Bowers and trying to do something with Henry. You know, Henry caused um Rich like Hockstetter, you know, some slurs. And for the record, like something that the that the miniseries has is that um we know there's these two bullies that are with Henry in the miniseries, right? We already know one of them is Bill Chickens. I think what happened was this the writers or the television producers messed up because I think the I think the um the other bully is supposed to be Patrick Hoxtedter because I think that's what the actor said he auditioned for. But I think they um they accidentally um labeled him as Victor Chris, I think that's who who it was, the other bully. So he actually has two different names. We never know which. He says he's Patrick Hoxtedter, so we'll go with that. Patrick Hoxstadter was the first bully to die, though. Something that the the film put in. And if we're going and if we're saying like the other bully was Patrick Hoxtedter and not Victor, um, then yes, he was also the first bully to die from Pennywise. But uh there was something that Beverly encountered with Henry and uh Patrick Hoxedter. Uh Patrick Hoxstadter is actually more demented than Henry is because he enjoys seeing animals like the normal serial killer thing where they they enjoy seeing animals suffer and die, and they also kill animals themselves before they eventually you know move on to a different target. Um and basically he had no remorse of trying to take advantage of Henry until Henry mentioned that like I think in the book his dad is a cop, um, as they put in the uh the the movie, the 2017 movie. So I think like that's something that I think Pat uh Patrick was afraid of because in the in the movie in the 2017 movie, uh Patrick just gets killed by Pennywise because he was lost in the sewers. In the 1990 uh series, if that was Patrick Hox there, and I'm gonna be saying that a lot, um, if that was Patrick, he was just attacked, and we don't really see we just see the the light that attacks Patrick. And the um in the book, Patrick is attacked by leeches, or it forms into flying leeches and attacks him, drains him dry, and then Pennywise just takes him. And uh Beverly witnesses all of this. The other um the one thing that's different from both, and um it's not a huge difference. So what the what the movie what the movies and the book get right is that it's every 27 years that um it comes. It you know it comes and feasts for about one to three years and then goes back to sleep for another 27 years. For um the 1990 series, it's every 30 years, and that's mostly just to like have an even timeline. Um because think about it, five and tens are much of an easier timeline to or are a much of an easier time frame to do than like doing like one like one, two, three, four, six, seven, like trying to do the every twenty-seven years when it's easier just to go back five to ten years, um, or at least like five to zero years, if you get what I mean. So, and at least like the timeline of the 1990 series kind of fits with the original book. Um, even though I think the book takes place between 58 and 59, because uh 58 was when um Georgie was killed um by Pennywise. It's the same thing. Georgie is out in the rain playing with the the little paper sailboat, and you know, he sees Pennywise in the sewers, and Pennywise lures him enough to where he bites off, you know, Georgie's arm, and Georgie bleeds out in you know the book and the 1990 series. And the the movie was he just takes Georgie and he's never seen again. Only in like um was what is it like premonitions or hallucinations coming from um Pennywise, you know, but in the the um what is it the miniseries it's a year it's more like a year later. So it's like instead of like the 58 to 59, it's 59 to 60. But in the um in the the first movie, it's from eighty-eight to eighty-nine because they wanted to do they wanted to make it more relatable with modern audiences. So yeah. Um they wanted to make it more relatable with modern audiences, which is why, you know, they shifted to the 80s, because you know, er all the events is gonna happen 27 years later to modern time. I mean, I guess I guess the I guess that's why, because like the book takes place when when they're adults, I think it takes place in like 84. No, 87. Hold on, give me a second. My map the math ain't mathing right now. 87 or 86? I'm trying to I'm trying to remember. So let's see. 30 years. If it's 85, it might be 57 or 58. I think it is 57 to 58. Give me a sec, I I actually want to get this right for now, for once. Um, hold on, hold on. Yeah, so it's 57 to 58. Okay, so yeah. The books, the book, the events of the book when their kids take place from 57 to 58. Um, then they change that because like they need to keep everything kind of modern ish a bit. So that's why they have it uh in the in the mini-series 59 to 60, as well as in the first movie 88 to 89. That way, like modern audiences can relate it, relate it a lot more. So back then, that's why they had it. The events of the film take place in 1990, and then of course in 2019 they had the events taking place in 2016. Man, that was a lot to talk about. Um the um the the other big thing that's different from both the uh from everything really, and I don't know if the miniseries is gonna talk about it, but um, the one thing that's always been eluded from every adaptation, but kind of hinted at was Marchron. Marchron, I think that's how you pronounce the name, is the turtle that it's been battling since the dawn of time. Marchron is the creator of the universe, and it's not like how in biblical sense that the universe was created in six days, guys, six days, um, not seven, so six days, Marchon and it's kind of like a big bang theory almost, where it barfed up the universe. That's a crude way of putting it. You also gotta remember Stephen King was high on cocaine when he did this book. So he says he also doesn't remember that one scene with Bev and all the other boys, but yeah. Um so Marchron um was like its rival. And it's been alluded, but he's I yeah, he is more of like what helps the losers fight it. And I think he's trying to help I think he helps every single person every time it comes back, he finds someone that's gonna be like, I'll show you like how to stop it. Like, cause in the book, in the book, when they first fought it, um Ben not Ben, Bill was um I think he was caught in the deadlights. The deadlights are always something that's been used, though it's spoken a lot more in the 1990s than it is in 2017. But the deadlights, Bill was caught in the deadlights, so not uh Bev as they put in the 2017 uh adaptation, but Bill. And he's in a mental battle between it and um what is it? Uh it it he's in a mental battle between him and it. And during that he sees the turtle, like he sees Martron, and he tells him like about the ritual of Chud. The ritual of Chud is something that was kind of put in in, I think, in the book. There's a part in the book where like um they built the um what is it, the clubhouse, which is something that was uh added in in the in the second film, the 2019 film, where like they did this Indian smoke ritual, something that we all don't that we don't recommend. I don't even think modern uh native um uh native Indians would recommend either. But it was a smoke ritual where like they're in in in closed space with no no air and they inhale the smoke and it's supposed to give them like vision and stuff. Um they all tried it. Everybody except Richie and um Richie and Mike stayed and they saw like how it was uh created. And in that they discovered about the virtual chud, which is something that was put into the um the 2019 uh adaptation, but it was just Mike and it wasn't at the clubhouse, it was in a tent and Mike was older versus they were younger in the uh in the book. Something that was alluded in the mini-series and as well as in the first adaptation, but we put it in there in the 2019 sequel. But the ritual chud was in the in and musketis adaptation, it's like it was something that the natives uh made to hopefully go against um Pennywise, but it was different. I guess because like how weird it is in the what is it in like the 2019 or yeah, how weird it was in the in the original novel, because in the original novel, and it's something about like it's I don't know how you describe it. Part of it is you gotta bite its metaphorical tongue, like literally, you gotta bite its metaphorical tongue, and you gotta like know that like you don't believe in it. I think that's how it went down, which is something that uh they did not do in that in the 2019 uh sequel. What they ended up doing was saying like you gotta like burn a token of something that brings you know that brought them closer as friends as a group, and then you gotta say turn light into dark, which did not work the slightest. Um, no, it did not work. I mean, even in the adaptation, even in the adaptation, like Mike and Pennywise say, like, oh no, the natives who tried this died years ago. And Mike said, like, well, it's because they didn't believe. Obviously, another big thing in in that adaptation versus everything else is that Mike's not really there in the book. And in the miniseries, Mike was attacked by Henry Bowers. Um, I think he was stabbed in the side and had to be in the hospital for the rest of the story. But um, I don't know. I kind of wish they kinda kept that, but I guess to keep it with the story, they had to keep Mike in there. I understand it, but I don't know. I mean, maybe. I guess another big thing is Audra is not in the uh the sequel. Well, she's in the sequel. For those that don't know, Audra is the wife of Bill when he's older. Um, and she's supposed to be British. I mean, they had a British actress play her in the 1990s series. Um, she Olivia, oh man, why am I forgetting their names all of a sudden? I know she she passed away not too long ago. If I can she passed she passed away like I think it was this year, or it was probably last year. Hold on, let's see. Because give me a second, yo. Uh yeah, Olivia Hussey. Olivia Hussey. No, okay, so she passed away December of last year, but it felt like this year. Olivia Hussey, um, for those that don't know, she played Juliet in uh an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet. She also came out as the final girl in the original Black Christmas. But yeah, she's more prominent in the series than it she is in the remake. In the remake, she's only there for like the first five minutes of the movie. Or not the first five minutes, but she's only there like in the beginning of when we're reintroduced to Bill when he's older, and she's not even British in the in the in the movie. Uh anyway, she's uh very she's she's not there in the show. I mean, she's not there in the movie, should have been there because that's kind of like a driving force for Bill. Um I mean another thing is that like uh so in the in in both the miniseries and the sequel of the film, in the film sequel, I guess you could say. Um, what was it? We're only introduced to uh Beverly's husband or boyfriend, depending on how you put it. And like when we're when we are first reintroduced to Bev, like seeing how she is as an older woman, like married or I think in yeah, married to a person that's literally just like how her father was, like very abusive. He does come back for like to he goes to dairy, he follows Beverly to Derry because he wants to like I guess I think he wanted to like kill her, and I think everybody else, but Pennywise instead has has him um kidnap Audra. In the in the miniseries, Audra follows Bill. Well, she does follow Bill, like in the book as well, but in the mini-series, sh once she reaches Derry, Pennywise captures her. In the book, uh Bill, I mean Bever Bev's husband, Tom, I think that's what his name was. Tom takes him to I think Pennywise's lair. And I think what they say was he dies of shock. Like he dies of shock seeing true its true form while while um Audra is in a catatonic state. Which I mean, I don't know. I feel like he should have gotten I think his death should have been a lot more brutal. And I'm I'm a weird person. Like it should have been a lot more brutal than him just seeing Pennywise and just, yeah, I guess dying of shock or a heart attack or something. But yeah. Another thing is in the in the in the in the remake of the show, I mean of in the remake of the or I guess in the sequel of the film, I don't know why I'm I'm having trouble with words all of a sudden. I mean, I always had trouble with words, but in the in the sequel of the movie, um, it's been applied that Richie's gay. It's never been put into the miniseries or into the book, as far as I can think of, but I guess another it's this is a minor one, but Eddie's death is different in the book than in the other adaptations, because in the book he gets the Georgie treatment, his arm gets bitten off and he just dies. Like, yeah, he just dies, he just bleeds out. Versus like in the in the miniseries he just gets crushed to death, and then in the in the uh the the movie he just gets stabbed like through the uh yeah, he just gets stabbed through the chest, I think, from Pennywise. And the spider's a lot different in this uh in this version too because it's like spider body, no the back end of a spider, and then the front end or the the front whatever. Pennywise in the front, spider in the back. Let's put like if you you guys, if you've seen the the movie, you know what I mean. The virtual chud, I will say though, go going back to it, it wasn't prominent in the 1990s series. Oh well. Um anyway, um, so let's just so in the trying to think what else is there. I mean, the f the friends of Henry are like hit the deaths are a lot different in the movie and the miniseries. Because in the book, it takes the form of um Frankenstein's monster and like beheads one of them and mutilates the other one. While in the miniseries, it just attacks them with like its true form, which is the deadlights. But then in the the movie, you don't see the deaths of his friends, only in a deleted scene where it might have been implied that he killed them. Um Henry because Henry is supposed to be like the fear of what parts of the fear of dairy, you know, it controls dairy, it stays in dairy. That's kind of like why it has that cycle, because if it continues to kill every year, every year, every year, it won't I guess it won't have that fear or whatever. So that's why it rests, I believe. But um, I think I know Henry's death is a lot different in the novel, because in the novel, when he dies, he's he attacks Eddie and Eddie hits him over the head with a a champagne bottle or something after after attacking Mike too. And then in the um in the 1990s he just dies from accidentally getting stabbed. Um, I think it was by Ben. And then in the in the sequel to the movie, um, Richie hits him in the head with an axe. I guess I mean there's not a lot to talk about because I mean I'm trying to think what else. I'm trying to think what else is there. Because everything else is pretty much the same. Maybe it's just like how Pennywise kills like people or the kids, because like I know in the in the 1990 um version, I think for obvious reasons, Penny when it when it comes back, Pennywise uh attacks a little girl, and um he attacks the little girl in the 1990 when it comes back, like 30 years after like the events before everything started. And then in the book, as well as in the um in the adaptation sequel, um, it attacks a gay a gay man named uh Anne. Oh Adrian, yeah. He attacks a gay a young gay man named Adrian. Now people think like, does it attack kids? Does it only attack kids? It doesn't I don't think it just attacks kids. I think like in the beginning it would attack anybody because remember, everything's the same story, pretty much. Where like if you know the story, you know that like um Derry was just like a trapping town, something they've always mentioned in any adaptation. And then one day the settlers or the founders, um, kind of like the Roanoke story, if you know about the Roanoke story. If you don't know the Roanoke story, settlers of a place in Virginia called Roanoke, um, all of a sudden disappeared. That that was it. They they just disappeared, nobody knew where they are, and this is actually a true story. The only thing they ever saw was a sign that said Krootoa, and I think that's where the inspiration for like what they did because when they were when the kids were uncovering all the stories about like uh dairy and what it was from, um, they said like, well, there the some of the settlers or and founders all of a sudden um just disappeared was bloody close, leading to the well house. And then you know the ironwork explosion that was one. The um, I'm trying to think, there was um the black spot, uh, which is something that the show is putting in, I could tell, because they have Dick Hallron. If y'all don't know, um Dick Hallron is a character from another Stephen King adaptation called The Shining. He's one of those people that can see things. So, and if you've never known, um, Stephen King's adaptations, I'll connect. So, Dick Hallron is um, he's I supposedly seen Pennyway, and he used his shining to save people. If y'all don't know, shining is like this mental power people have, and I know that's gonna be a lot more included in the show because it's Dick Howron. Um, I do know that like Stephen King's books or Joe Hill's books, which is uh Stephen King's son. I know some might have a connection, there's not a lot known because like in the novel Dr. Sleep, he talks about Charles Manx. Charles Manx was a character in Joe Hill's Nosferatu. Um, but um, yeah. Because yeah, the backstories and all that, it's the same thing. It's just, you know, they do a lot of differences. They have a lot of differences. Um, um, I don't think there's anything else I can think of that's well, I mean, like in the 1990s series, um, I mean they excluded some of the other stuff that um well I mean both series really. Because like it first goes to um Ben as a mummy. The mummy isn't shown until late in the movie, but at that point the loser the losers already know what Pennywise is. They kept the bloody thing for Bev. Um there was the Paul Bunyan statue that they put into the second film, but they didn't put in the 1990 uh series. It was a monster, it was a werewolf. Though the werewolf does come into the book, but not when Richie sees Pennywise for the first time, I think. I don't I don't think. But that there is a werewolf in the book and the Paul Bunyan statue. And then what else? The um Mike sees uh a giant bird in the book, which is excluded from both the what is it, both the um the 1990 and the 2019 sequel. The painted lady, that was something for the movie, and because Stan doesn't see the painted lady, he sees like two kids that were drowned in the I think a watermill, which is something that was in the book. Um, because like in the in the 1990 series, Downley doesn't encounter it until they started looking through that um that photo album. Eddie sees the leper, which is something that was put in the 2017 um adaptation, but in the 1990s he just sees uh Pennywise. Hiya, Eddie. I don't know why I said that. But um, yeah, I mean like I mean like there's there is a lot of differences, but I think I understand why they make differences between trying to redo another adaptation, another IP, uh from something else, just because like they want to be different and creative, and maybe something that actually scares people. You get what I mean? Because like I said, Pennywise in the book, Pennywise isn't really like there all that much as he is in either adaptation. The clown rarely appears, it appears as what the kids are afraid of. You get what I mean? Like the Pennywise form, Bob Gray is sometimes what it's what he's called, it's just a form that he takes. Sometimes it needs the form of something that it needs to eat. But um, yeah, because like it ends the same way, spider, kind of. Well, I mean like, well, I guess so it's nothing major, but like Ben, not Ben, Bill is the only one that crushes the heart rather than everybody else. And a big storm destroys dairy. And at that moment, everybody forgets who each other were. They start forgetting each other. I mean, Bill and I Bill, uh, Ben and um Beverly get together. Though, you know, there's always that there was that love triangle between Ben, Bev, and Bill, all the bees put together, but everything else, I mean, Eddie's death, um, um, what was it? Um Audra coming back to her senses after Bill puts her on a bike and he's just like riding down the street. It's also been implied that like Pennywise probably never died, or he did die, like so something that all the other adaptations didn't put together or didn't add was that uh it's a female, like it's a female, and um it lays eggs, and maybe those eggs were like its reincarnation because in the book, Ben's destroying all the eggs, and then Bill asked that you get them, he's like, I hope I did. Like, there was just so many of them. So basically, there could have been a possibility of an egg surviving, which I think there's something they showed in a preview for upcoming episodes of the show. I could be wrong, but I think that's what it looked like. So there's a chance that um it probably it died, but it's probably gonna come back. Um, because I know there was like another Stephen King book that talked about like the clown show that came out in 1990. You know what I'm talking about. But either way, I love the 1990 series, I love the the Muschetti adaptations, even though like the effects are you know dating themselves. They're actually pretty interesting. Um some people said they wasn't scary, but I always say like the like scare like horror movies aren't meant to scare you, and I know that's weird to say, but they're meant to um they're meant to give you they're meant to shock value or they're meant for shock value is what I'm trying to say. Like, like I hate when people are like that's not scary. Well, first of all, it wasn't trying to scare you, it was only trying to scare a specific amount of people. Like, you're not afraid of clown. You get what I mean? So it's only trying to scare some folks that are afraid of clowns, and you know, adding the jump scares and all that. Some things sometimes I just had to say, like, stop saying can you not watch a horror film and just expecting something to scare you? Watch a horror film for its craft and its creativity. It's just a better way of viewing it. Rather than like, oh, I want to get scared and well, like, why do you want to get scared in the first place? That's like I feel like people are watching horror films for the wrong reason. Like, you're you're not meant to get scared of the movie, you're meant to get scared of the concept, something that's like people are just ignoring. Like, I say like the Exorcist movie doesn't scare me. The concept does because I do believe the in evil forces and stuff like that. Um Child's Play, no, that just scares me entirely. But um, but either way, I enjoy it. Um, you know, Tim Curry, he's not gonna live long. Like you can you can you you you're anticipating that he's not he's gonna go sometime soon. And it's sad, but I'm glad I had that experience to see him again. I mean, people know him from Rocky Horror Picture Show, The Wild Thornberries, uh Home Alone 2, which is you know, we're approaching the Christmas time now. We're gonna be watching that. Rocky Horror Picture Show and it are pretty much the top two Tim Curry performances, people will remember. And Bill Skarsgard, I love him as Pennywise, but I do think his performance as Count Orlock is a lot better, even though I wasn't a huge fan of uh the Nose Farado 2 remake. I think like his performance there is more terrifying than it is as Pennywise. I think because like again, there are two different forms of evil. One's just like likes to toy with his victims, the other one is just he's just straight up evil, like the devil. But um, yeah, I mean I try to make this exciting. Um probably should have asked somebody to be with me on this episode, but you know what? I may do with what I got. So um, you guys have a great, first of all, happy Halloween. Uh and even though I know some people are not gonna be listening to this on Halloween, some people are just gonna be listening to this before and after Halloween. But happy Halloween if you're listening to this on Halloween, which is gonna get released on Halloween, and then um have a great night, day, morning whenever you're listening to this. Signing off.