Episode 39

Gilbert talks about The Hobbit on his podcast

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Alright, and uh welcome to the podcast, everyone. Like I said, I think this uh episode it was gonna be I think about um the Hobbit. So the reason why, and I'm just gonna jump right into this. The reason why I chose to do the Hobbit is because for the next uh three years starting December of next year of 2026, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is getting a 25th anniversary, uh, for the next three years. So what I basically mean is that like next year will be the 25th anniversary of the fellowship, then following year will be the 25th anniversary of the two towers, and then next one will be the 25th anniversary of Return of the King. Um, all three movies which I really really love, and I really hope to cover each uh film each season, uh depending if my uh my podcast goes for that long. The the other thing I want to talk about why I'm talking about The Hobbit now is because the Hobbit came out before the Lord of the Rings, not the movies, but the book. The book of The Hobbit was the one that started on. I think it's the only uh book of Middle Earth that I've actually read. I've never read the other um I never read the The Lord of the Rings um book, but that's okay because I already plan on not doing compare and contrast for those three movies. I got a lot of better ideas. But um for obviously for The Hobbit, I'm gonna do that because it's the only one I've ever read. And I it just piqued my interest because in 2012 when um The Hobbit came out was well or was coming out at that time, I decided to read the book ahead of time. And luckily for me, it's like I could have taken some breaks because um you know Peter Jackson decided to make three movies uh out of one book, and we can all agree that that's not really necessary. You don't need to make three separate movies based on one book, you don't need to create a whole new trilogy. Yes, I get it, the book is long, or it's not even a long book, actually. I mean once you get to the chapter of the Battle of the Five the Battle of the Five Armies, it's not even that many pages. It's literally like one chapter of an entire book towards the end of the the book when Bilbo gets back to um um the Shire. Uh so what can I say about the Hobbit? Well, all I can say is that um I'm not a huge fan of the series, uh, to be honest with you. I mean I saw I've seen them all in theaters, I've even seen I've only seen the extended version of The Desolation of Smaug and the Battle of the Five Armies. I haven't seen the um the extended version of um the unexpected journey, um, considering that Max doesn't have it right now. Um, but I've seen some clips of it online when people who are um you know seeing those movies for the first time, they're watching the extended version. So I kind of know or kind of seen like some of the clips that are from the extended version of um an unexpected journey. The other reason being why I was never I'm not a huge look, I don't hate the movies. I watch the movies, I get, you know, it helped it's one of those movies that you get like if you need to kill a couple of hours, then just put that one on. That's what the hobbits are to me. They're not the Lord of the Rings, where I'm always, you know, I'm always emotionally invested in the Lord of the Rings than I am with the Hobbit. Um, so the reason I but again, the reason why I ha I'm talking about The Hobbit is because, yeah, like I said, the book came out before The Lord of the Rings, and I figured why not just talk about The Hobbit before I even talk about The Lord of the Rings. Because I'm really excited to talk about them. And considering that like each year I have to wait probably three years to talk about Return of the King, which is my favorite of the trilogy. Um, I think in fan bases, I believe the two towers is everybody else's favorite. And I think there are people who really love the fellowship of the ring, and I think it's like one of those trilogies where it's like where it's like it doesn't even matter if you could disagree or disagree because we all love them. It's just that we're just drawn a lot more to um to one film over the other film. So to my point, um, or what I'm what I what I'm getting at is that um we could just talk about the Hobbit, just go in order and talking about the Hobbit before we ever talk about um the Lord of the Rings. And even that would that's not even the um what was I gonna say? It's just how it goes because there was even a Hobbit animated movie for about an hour, it's like an hour. Um it came out in 1977, I believe. And you know, the animation's weird. Uh Bill Bull looks weird, Gollum definitely looks weird. Um, yeah, so so do the doors. The doors look weird, the L's look weird. Everybody looks weird, and I think it's just because we're so used or really I was so used to the um, what is it, the animated um or not the animated, the live action versions of these characters in the world of Middle Earth. Um, to point things out, um, yes, there was a Hobbit one. There was also a Lord of the Rings um animated movie, and it was only covering the two towers, or I'm sorry, the Fellowship of the Ring and the Two Towers. And I saw that movie, the animated Lord of the Rings movie, um, before the two towers ever came out. So I already f knew that, like before I ever saw the two towers in theaters, I already knew that um about Gollum and that um Gandalf came back because right where it ends where Barmereo got shot and um you know Frodo and Sam are have to do the adventure now by themselves. I was like, it d shouldn't this story end here? Because I didn't even know there were sequels to this at the time. Like I was five years old when the first film came out, and I I I can't say I barely remembered anything. I mean I was five years old. How often do five-year-olds remember anything big like the Lord of the Rings? I just remember loving it so much. And then of course, you know, the two towers and then the return of the king, which I mean I I really loved the return of the king. My dad loved the return of the king, or maybe the two towers, I I I don't I definitely don't remember. Um, but um, yeah, so if you've ever checked if you've ever seen the animated one, it's actually pretty interesting. It's pretty like it's a different take. Again, this came out long before Peter Jackson. And it's interesting because like Peter Jackson, like those who kind of knew about Peter Jackson long before Lord of the Rings would have been like, really this guy is directing the Lord of the Rings films? And it's because and I'm definitely gonna be coming back to it when I talk about the fellowship with the ring, um, it's because um because Peter Jackson uh was um uh he was a horror filmmaker, a very indie horror filmmaker before um he was he ever did the Lord of the Rings. So he never really directed anything such in such a big scale as the Lord of the Rings did. And obviously, as you can tell, like um, I'm pretty sure he definitely took his time um making the Lord of the Rings. I mean, that has to take years to master. And I think he shot everything all in one year. So every film, all all three movies he shot was in the same year, and I'm pretty sure the same thing goes for the Hobbit too. So I know some people are gonna ask me, Well, what is about the Hobbit that you're not a huge fan of? Um, and the thing is is that like it didn't have that same magic as Lord of the Rings did. At least I I didn't feel that same way. Um obviously, um, obviously the three films made from one book. Um, it should have just been one book. There's that, and then there's the obviously the the special effects of the Hobbit um in the Lord of the Rings. It was like the orcs were were um people, like there were actually people in um makeup and prosthetic. The only time there was ever really CGI for the Lord of the Rings is to add on the numbers of orcs or you know armies of people. And this one, you know, the orcs, they're um they're CGI. And I don't know what what what went wrong, especially the Pell Orc, Az Azok, I think that's how you say his name. Um, every time I I go back to it, it's like damn, like it it doesn't have that same feel. So I don't know why Peter Jackson decided to um use CGI for the orcs. I guess maybe because like you know, it was what everybody was doing. But I mean I mean look how this the effects were back then with the Lord of the Rings versus now, and really for a lot of films. Like look at the special effect Zen versus now, Zen more holds up to what now is, but yeah, the other issue that I have is like there are different plots and characters and stuff like that that aren't even in the book. So like Tariel, which is um the she elf in the second and third movie of The Hobbit, uh she she doesn't appear at all in the book, and there's no like love triangle between her, Killy, I think yeah, Killy, and Legolas, and Legolas also is does not appear in the book, and then um Lady Galadrio, who is also in The Lord of the Rings, does not appear in the Hobbit the book as she does in the movies. Neither does Sauron or yeah, Sauruman. I'm sorry, neither the Sauruman. Sauron isn't even mentioned in the Hobbit because he wasn't even created, like when JRR Tolkien wrote the book. I mean, he he had an idea maybe this ring that I'm putting in there, this invisible ring, can add on to the stories that I want to create. And that's what and that's pretty much what it was. The idea was Sauron wasn't even in the the Hobbit book, and I'm already doing compare and contrast. Um, there's a lot more to explain. I'm probably gonna come back on them too, but yeah, that that's kind of like a couple of the reasons why I was never a huge fan of the series. Like I said, I can watch it um mainly just to kill a couple of hours to because I can be bored out of my mind. That doesn't mean like there's nothing that's good to say about it. There's plenty of good to say about the hobbit. I mean, Martin Freeman, who played Bilbo in in those movies, I mean, he definitely was really, really great as uh Bilbo. No, playing a character who starts off like, you know, because it though it's mentioned in the books how like hobbits never really like leave the Shire because they're not built for adventure. I mean, gotta understand, hobbits are like less than four and a half feet tall. And you know, you know, him having it's like that fish out of water situation. Um, so that's that's one of the things about it is that like the way Martin Freeman plays the character. I love the portrayals of Thorne Orkenshield and all the rest of the orcs. So I wish some of them talked a lot more, but I mean you're talking about what was it, 13 orcs, and like who do we focus on more other than you know, Thorne Ork Oakenshield? Ian McKillen is also back as a Gandalf. Um, I love him as Gandalf. Obviously, I do also love him as a Magneto. Um, there's that the the fight scenes, though. Yes, a lot of it is CGI. The fight scenes are still pretty cool, and uh, yeah, I mean, even some of the shots of the locations, because yes, there are some locations that are CGI, but there are some that aren't. And that's also the beauty of the Lord of the Rings, is because if you don't y'all don't remember, um, the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit films were shot in New Zealand because that's where Peter Jackson is from, and that's that's my goal one day is to go to New Zealand. I want to go to New Zealand because I wanna, you know, get I mean, the Return of the Kings is definitely in my top five favorite films of all time. So, I mean, that's kind of the reason why. That's a bucket list. I've also never gone international, I've only been in Canada and Mexico. I've never been over waters. Now here's the thing. Um within the past coup within the past year, I'm s I started to develop some anxiety. Um, I I just discovered that not so not too long ago. And um it's that thought of like you're also I'm also like in the not not claustrophobia either. I don't want to make it that way, but like, no, I'm in a space, you know, that's never gonna end. And it's like I need to walk around and stuff like that, and then I just I just like I have some heavy breathing. I don't know like what's been happening. Like times I need air, you know, I need air to like help tell me calm down, and then but that's not gonna be possible because I would be in a plane um going thousands of miles per hour, but I'm still gonna be arriving like in 20 hours, depending. I don't know how long these flights are, but um, yeah. But I mean I aside from all of that, I still want to go to New Zealand. I want to go to New Zealand, and um, yeah, I mean there are yeah, like I said, there are some positives that I that I have on the Lord of the Rings. It's it's that series that's a bit 50-50 for me per episode. I mean not per episode, per uh movie. Um, those are some of the things I say, like I like it, but then there's some stuff I don't like. But um, yeah, um, it it's the the series was never as good as the Lord of the Rings was. I mean, and we're coming come on, the entire series. I mean, every year was nominated for best picture and best director, and I think even best screenplay. And it won, and then I think every year it won best effects and best uh s music. Um, and I think the third film took both score and um original song. Um by it's a song written by Annie Lennox. If y'all don't know, Annie Lennox is for uh um man, I forgot what the what what that group was called, but it's that it's she's the original singer, sweet dreams are made of this. Um, but yeah, I mean the the trilogy didn't even get any Oscar love. They've only gotten like I think the sound categories and I think that's it. Maybe just the sound categories and probably the effects categories, but yeah, no, they were completely like shunned out from the academy. I mean, because I mean, like I said, the it wasn't as good as the Lord of the Rings were. Um, they were just good, but they were watchable. I I should say I like that. But another thing, another positive is obviously um, though when I rewatched it, um, it could do some more work, but the Smoug the Dragon was really cool. Um, when I saw it in theaters, and then when I look at it now, I mean I could see the effects a bit dating a just starting to date a bit, but um, just the portrayal of the dragon. And Benedict Cunnerbanch even said that he wanted to play Smoug the Dragon when he was a little kid. And when Peter Jackson decided to make this series, that was an opportunity, and he took it and he got the role. Um, but uh yeah, um, I think that's uh as much as I could talk about right now. Uh just because like there's not much to mention that it's not like any other film I talked about that has a deep impact. This this series doesn't really have much of a deep impact as a lot of the other films I talked about because it it's not the Lord of the Rings. Um and uh yeah, that's why like next next year and the next well, the next three years when I talk about each Lord of the Rings film, there's there are bigger impacts um of the Lord of the Rings. And uh I can ex- I'll I'll pretty much explain it um after I go on break, but uh yeah, um I'm gonna take a break right now and we're gonna do another compare contrast because that's all I got for this episode after break. But um, yeah, let's let's go. Alright, so um, yeah, let's do the compare and contrast. Alright, so in the hole in the ground, there lived the hobbit. That's literally how the how both of them started off as. I think even the um the animated feature, because like I said, um I should have I should have mentioned this. Um I should have also focused on this as well. Like I said, there was an animated feature or the hobbit I should have mentioned about the the differences between well okay, well, since I'm already on the contrast, luckily there's two other adaptations of The Hobbit. So we got the animated one and then we got all four movies or all four movies, so technically four movies, but really all three movies by Peter Jackson. Um I will say like the um I would have I would have preferred to see like well well what was it? I would have preferred to see like an like why why do I have a hard time saying this? A Hobbit show or a Middle Earth show. I know some people are gonna be like, yeah, there's the um there's the the show on Amazon, the Rings of Power. I've never seen it and I I'm not even planning on watching it because I've heard some not so great things about the show. And a funny thing is I found out the show cannot be canceled because I think um the creators made a deal with um the uh what was it the families of P not Peter Jackson of um JRR Tolkien saying that like if they canceled the show they had to pay a milli like millions of dollars in fines for them, so they're screwed no matter what. You're gonna have a show that um not gonna give you profit because viewerships um the less less of the viewership, less of the profit. But then you're also still gonna lose more money, which you probably don't even have any more of because you were making the show um if you choose to cancel it. So they shot themselves in the foot there. Uh and that's not even it's mainly the fault of the writers, because the writers, the way they made it, fans of the books hated it. So that's what it is. But um to my point, there should just be like a hobby. There should be a proper Middle Earth show. You don't have to remake the entire um the entire Middle Earth saga, I guess you can say. Basically what I mean is don't remake a Lord of the Rings or make it into a s to a a series, um a mini-series that was about Frodo and Sam. Um, I'm not saying like don't do that or or do that. I'm saying like if we just had a show about Bilbo Baggins, um, it would actually would have been better. That's just what I'm saying. Um, but you know what? We're here now. Let's talk about it. I'm not gonna do compare and contrast with the Lord of the Rings. That's that that's not worth it. I mean the Lord of the The Lord of the Rings deserves more. So the Hobbit deserves as much as what I usually give it. So here it is. Um, the biggest compare and contrast is that like um we give backstories about the uh the dwarves. Now, like we're familiar with the dwarves in the book, but um supposedly like the king got the the original uh dwarf king, Doran Oakenshield's grandfather went mad. Um now if people are familiar with the lore, because I wasn't too too familiar, you're talking to a guy who's been watching these movies since he was five years old, but I didn't know how much lore there was. Like I didn't know that this is the the third age of Middle Earth, that there's a first age, which is the creation of Middle Earth, the second age where it's Sauron, and then the uh the third age, which is everything now. Um so I wasn't familiar with that. Um, but but we get much backstory about the dwarves and like you know the um what is it like the raids of um Smaug when he first enters so there's um there's that backstory there and then um so the the animated the animated um movie I couldn't think of the word the animated movie didn't have um or even mention about like what what entirely happened they do say like yes there was a dragon that uh that took their city and they want it back or they took the lonely mountain and they want the lonely mountain back. There's that, but there's also no mention or showing of Azog the Defiler, the Pell Orc, that's what they call him, as well as Bog his offspring. So here here's what I mean. Azog the Defiler is mentioned in the book, but he's not he's not like the main villain as the the movies have been putting it. Apparently, like in the in the movie where um Doran Organ Shield cut off his arm. Obviously, that's also when um Doran got his name. Uh because I forgot what the f what his actual name is, son of Dorin or something like that, or Duren's son. He's called Oakenshield because he used a branch as a shield, an oak branch, so oakenshield. Um but um in the movie how like you know as dog to the father's arm was cut off and he retreated in the book that same battle, he actually dies. So he's never really shown. So and he's not a it's so he's not really as prominent in the book as he is in the movies, but um a lot of things are pretty similar, like the trolls, which I think is a lot funnier in uh live action than in um the animated the animated movie as well as in the book. Um uh there's that. I mean the other one as I mentioned, Tario and Legolas. Tario is a character that was made up for the movie, yeah. Um just because they wanted to have a love story, and because if you ever read the book and seen the um the animated show, it's all guys. Like, I mean, I got nothing wrong with like wanting to add some female representation of it. My my thing is, and I'm gonna I go off topic for a bit, I don't mind representation in films, but you gotta put it in a way that's like oh I'm a female in a movie, that's it. No, you have to have character development and how this person really, you know, provides stuff for the plot. I felt like that wasn't Tariel at all. She was just a female fighter, and like I said, um Legolas wasn't in the book um at all. He didn't show up until the fellowship of the rings, um, the book. Um, and like I they also wanted again a love story between her and Killy, which is one of the elves. I mean not the elves, the um the dwarves, the companion the companion is what they call it. There's the fellowship uh and the fellowship of the ring, and then there's the companions in uh or the companionship in um in the hobbit. And just like the the hobbit as well in or yeah, in the books, in the animated series, and in the movies, Gandalf comes and goes. I've had people that are like that and I hate it sometimes, but you know, there are people that just come and go out of nowhere. It's like Gandalf, you're here, and then when dangerous situations come, Gandalf's not there. So there's that. The uh the other thing it or one one of the other big differences is um oh yeah, Bog. Bog is um, well again, not the main villain. He kind of doesn't show up until the battle near door towards the battle of the five armies, if I can remember. He's again not mentioned in the animated uh movie, and he's introduced early in um what was it in um the second uh hobby film, The Desolation of Smout. And um, yeah, Bog apparently is uh I forgot what his full name is, uh Lawrence something. Uh Lawrence Marier. I uh I'm trying to remember. If y'all don't know who I'm talking about, he's the guy who did uh who played um one of the arcs that killed Boromir and the Fellowship of the Ring, as well as the Witch King in um The Return of the King. Um he was a pretty interesting guy I've encountered with at Big Texas Comic Con. He was a pretty interesting story about his tribe in New Zealand and him growing up uh Roman Catholic. But yeah, um he he came out in the Hobbit series as uh bogue. Um and um the one thing the one person that uh what was it that was omitted from well there's a lot of people that were omitted from um the animated uh the animated uh film was uh I think his I think his name is Barg. No, not Barg. Um give me a second. Because Bard Bard is the the man that we're gonna eventually talk about. Um he's uh he's a bear. That's all I remember. He's a bear in um in the hobbit. Bayarn, that's his name. His name is Bayarn. He He's a skin changer. I guess there's that's their way of saying a skin uh shapeshifter who mainly uh transforms into a bear. He's more hospitable in um the book, but in the I think it's been a while since I read the book, so so don't give me flacky guys. All right. But if I remember, he's a little bit more hospitable in the book than he is in the movie. In the movie, he's very like, especially in the extended version. He's like, Who are you? I know nothing of you. I hate dwarves, but I hate orcs most of all. Like he's that person. Another big difference is um um the the the movies introduce a character named Radagas the Brown. Now Radagast the Brown is not in the book, but he apparently he's mentioned multiple times in the Fellowship of the Ring. That's what I that's what I heard. And obviously he's not so so because he was never mentioned in the Hobbit the book, he's not gonna be in the animated um the uh the animated movie. But yeah, um and apparently like he does go me uh Radigast I think Radagas isn't as like crazy as in the in the book as he is in the movie. I mean, like I said, I didn't really read The Fellowships of the Ring or any of the other Lord of the Rings book. I just looked up like who was this guy? And uh apparently that's uh yeah, that that was Radagas the Brown was just I guess the character that Peter Jackson just couldn't fit in to the story, so he put him in uh The Hobbit. And that's not surprising. There's plenty of uh that's not surprising. There is plenty of um, I'm trying to think, characters that uh in the in the books that never made it to the movie. Like there was actually if I can there's a guy named Tom something, Tom Bonderbuilder or something like that from The Fellowship with the Ring that fans really like, but never showed up in either the animated movie or in the the the movie itself. Um that's one of those things again. There's when trying to adapt a book into a movie, especially a pretty big book, in the book that's like full on fantasy, you have to change the plot of the movie or the you have to change the plot a bit, you know, change things around. Um, or you may have to exclude some parts and some people. So that was uh that's what they did. Um there's that. And then of course there is Bard. Bard is um in the in the um in the book he he is a fisherman. I think he is a fisherman. Um I don't remember, it's been a while. He he is more he has more prominence in the books than and as well as in the in the in the movies than in the animated one, though. In the animated one, it's because like his part doesn't come into like the last couple of chapters of The Hobbit. Like a couple of chapters before um or I think the chapter before they even um uh went to the mountains to get something, I guess you can say. Oh well not something. I'll explain it later. But um, yeah, no, Bart in the I don't know, I don't remember too much of the book, but I think um Bart does mention having a kid, um, but it's never entirely but they I don't think they ever showed the kid. Um they don't they don't say that he has kids in the animated movie, and in the movies he has uh two girls and a boy, which is literally that's me and my sisters, two girls, one boy. And as well as uh as well as in the movies, he's also a widower. Uh he lost his wife. Um I will say Lou Gavis actually portrayed that character well. He actually reminds me of Legolas. Um I guess he kind of does remind me of Orlando Bloom for a little bit, but when you see the two together talking in um in the Battle of the Five Armies, it's very interesting. Um so there's that. The uh the other big difference is um so I know there's mentions of the Arkham Stone in the book. I don't think it was ever mentioned in the in the animated um in the animated um movie. I know there was a big uh mentions in um that was actually the main artifact that I was trying to mention earlier. That was the main artifact that they were trying to look for the entire time in uh in all three movies, because that's like the actual treasure. Um, but in um in the book and in the animated series or the animated movie, I keep calling it an animated series. When Bilbo goes into the mountains, he retrieves a uh golden chalice, and that's what awakened Smalg. Well, really, it's well, it's kind of the same thing in the movie in the Desolation of Smalg, but it's because um in the book and the and as well as the animated movie, he just grabs it and then Smalg awakens as if like he senses it in um the animated uh or in the movies. The reason why Smaug wakes up is because Bilbo again does grab a chalice, but when he but it when he grabs it, it kind of like um makes a little it makes all these uh golden coins fall. And then that's actually uh where Smaug was also hiding, so he kind of just disturbs Smaug's hiding spot. And um as I as I mentioned earlier, uh Sauron is not mentioned in the books uh or in the book as well as in the animated movie. Um and I mean he's put there because everybody knows Sauron. He he we know um that he's the villain of pretty much this entire uh mythology, if you could call it. But it also kind of gives a reason why like Gandalf comes and goes, because Gandalf again comes and goes in all the movies. Um and yeah, every time he comes back, he's usually at the moment they needed him, like when they were all about to be killed by the trolls. Gandalf comes and says the Don will take you all and all the trolls turn to stone. And then when um what was it when the dwarves were kidnapped by the goblins, um it's always a kidnapping. Um, Gandalf came and freed them and says and have made sure everybody fights back. And then then the this time around, it's because Gandalf had to tell him that about the army of orcs or goblins in the book, as well as in the animated um in the animated uh movie. There that, you know, hey, there's this army that's coming towards the mountains. And I think um if I could look at it, the way the uh the way Peter Jackson wrote and directed on like the reasonings of like um why um the orcs and the elves and the men are fighting against well not against each other because uh well why the the elves and the men are fighting against the dwarves. I mean, if you know the story, you know that like Doran said if you allow us to go to the mountains, we will get you all a portions of the treasures. And he kept he goes back on his word, and even Bilbo is trying to say, like, you gave them your word. And uh the other reason being is because Smaug destroyed the uh the lake town, which is where um I'm trying to think, which is where uh Bard and all the other folks were staying at. And um thing about the both uh adaptations of the story is that they've mentioned that Bart I think Bart's grandfather was the one who um shot many arrows at Smaug um and kind of made a little bit of a dent in him. Like it chipped off a scale of it chipped off the scale of um Smaug and the and I guess the right place where you would shoot him in the heart. I guess maybe that's where that's where his heart would be at. I guess I don't know. All we know is that like Bart shoots him in that exact spot and he dies. The other thing I will say is that like Doran Oakenshield in the movie um doesn't like doesn't really it's not like he doesn't want to fight. While the orcs are while the um not the orcs, the iron ironworks, iron ironwood, um, the other dwarfs, which is led by Thorne's cousin, who will eventually become king, um, it's his are it's his army that's fighting and Dorne's not doing anything about it. Um, like telling his like the companions, don't fight, don't go out there, just stand down. And he's just bec you know, he's mad with um he's mad with um the riches. And it's something that all the other dwarves kind of um kind of what's the word I'm looking for? Horn Bilbo as well as Dorne about is that like all this riches is kind of the reason why your grandfather became mad in the first place. And then obviously when Thorne comes to his senses, he's he says, Okay, we're up, we're gonna go fight for our with our men, with our with our kin. And um, yeah. The uh other big difference is um, like I said, uh Azog the Defiler is more in the the the Jackson verse, you can say, than anything else, because Azog obviously dies in a backstory. His son Bog is the one that leads the army to um the lonely mountains, where it's the the elves, the dwarves, and the men fighting against the orcs or the goblins. I think this is also the only time because the last time elves and men fought with each other beforehand was obviously um the fight against Sauron. Because I think that's the moment like Doran in the book as well as the animated m the animated movie came to a sense. It's like, oh yeah, uh why don't you and I fight with each other and then we will fight off the um the the orcs, you know. And in the in the movie, um the re like we all knew Doran was gonna die in the well, if you've read the book, you knew that Doran was gonna die. Um, and you know, when I see people react who've never read the books react to all of this, um, they were surprised when Philly and Killy die. And like I said, if you read the book, you know that Philly and Killy they die in the the book, as well as Doran, Doran also dies in the animated movie. Um, I I think it was like Bomber and some other folk still Philly and Killy and Doran, but I think like s um four other dwarfs died um during the Battle of the Five Armies. In the Battle of the Five Armies, um, Bilbo gets knocked out pretty early within the the fight where Rich is like in the movie, he does get knocked out, but at that point, uh he already knew Philly died, and then I think that's also the moment and then not long after that Killy does get killed by Bulk. We don't really know how they die in the book as well as the animated movie. We just know that they die. Same thing with um Doran Oakenshield in the movie. Thorne um he gets he lets himself get stabbed by uh Azog in order for him to stab Azog back. Um in the book as well as in the animated um uh the animated movie, it's just mentioned that Billy and Killy, along with all the other ones, but mainly, you know, Philly and Killy in the book and Dorne, they just were wounded and they died. And all three will all three adaptations or you know, all three versions of Dorne, I guess you can say, will say, you know, asking Bilbo to forgive him for you know the way he treated him and stuff like that. And another thing back to earlier, and this is also because of like the way Jackson did with the the Lord of the Rings and the book as well as the animated movie, the egos actually talk. Um, they don't talk in the the live action movie, they always do come in helpful. I do kind of wish they come in helpful early on. Because think about it, every time you watch the anime, the I mean not the animated movie, but every time you watch um any of the movies by Peter um by Peter Jackson, um, you always just think, like, especially with like the battle of Minister. I mean, if you've seen the movies, you know what I mean. If you haven't, go watch the movies, y'all. I mean, I would have said go watch the hobbits, but if y'all want to watch the hobbits, y'all can watch it. If y'all want to watch the hobbits, then yeah, that's a y'all decision, not me decision. I can't tell you what to watch and not watch, but I'm saying go watch the movies real quick, um, before I even try to get too much into the Lord of the Rings, because what I'm going back to is that the Battle of Ministerius or Helm's Deep. I just go, man, I wish we had the trees and we had the egos with them. Because it would have been a faster and quicker fight, as well as with the army of the dead that Aragorn summoned. But still. Um there I mean, I know there's plenty more to talk about, so I'm gonna think of it. I'm gonna think of a lot more just to kind of extend things going on. But I guess the other thing I can say is that like Gollum is just so weird in um the animated, the animated movie. He looks like a frog. Like he actually looks like a frog. Um and I think he looks a lot taller too, considering he's supposed to be a hobbit or was supposed to be a hobbit. Um and some fan and some people who've again they've never read the book, so it's not their fault that they didn't know that um Gollum was gonna be there already. Because that's I mean, that's obviously when Bilbo gets his ring. And we know like when Bilbo uh puts on his ring, he just turns him invisible, and they're all like, Oh, he's gonna see the eye and stuff. Well, no, because here's the thing I found out um not even Frodo sees the eye or is haunted by the eye of Sauron in the books. Apparently that's just something they put in the movies, but uh Peter Jackson had to like accommodate for that later on in the Desolation of Smoog when Smaug says, I know you have something on you, something that's very precious. And uh, what was it? Bilbo can like sense Sauron for like that moment, but I mean he doesn't appear back again, and that's because Lady Galadrio kind of like banishes back to the shadow or something like that. I don't know. I do kind of wish they extended a lot more with um uh Sauron and Saurumon, because Saurumon says, Because in the in the movies as as well as in the extended version, um, what was it? Gandalf gets kidnapped and has to be rescued by the council, which is Alron, Saurumon, and Galadrio, and as well as uh getting saved by um Radagas the Brown and uh Gala I don't know what the heck Lady Galadrio did, but whatever she did put Sauron in a box for not an actual box, but I mean like it kind of concealed Sauron in the shadows until he he ever came back, which is obviously 60 years later. Um, but yeah, um but for a moment Bilbo felt like Sa like Sauron's presence, but then he eventually had to put the ring on to get the Arkhamstone. Um, like I said, the Arkham Stone, I don't think it's ever mentioned any time in the animated movie. Um, because in the book as well as in the animated movie, he's like Doran asked him, go bring back something, you know. So the chalice, the chalice was um was the one thing he brought back, and everyone was like, Oh man, this is the treasure, one of the treasures. In the live action movie, he's like, We need that Arkhamstone, which everyone has said that that's what drove um Doran's grandfather mad. Um there I guess the other thing is there was supposed to be like a big fight. There's a big fight between the dwarves and um who was it and um uh Smaug, which is like one of them thinking they can like encase him in gold or something like that. I don't I never understood the plan too much, but it's it's pretty much what pisses him off a lot, too, where he decides I'm gonna go s give Lake Town a visit. And you know, it says I am fire, I am death. I will say, and I'm pretty sure everybody's seen the movie will also say that like the way the second movie ended, everyone was like, What? Because it just says I am fire, I am death. Belbo's like, Oh my gosh, what have we done? And then it just cuts the black is like, Wait, are you serious? That's like that's the moment right. That's like when the movie starts with a cliffhanger or ends with a cliffhanger, you're like, Oh gosh. So that's really like that drive to we gotta see what's gonna happen. I mean, if you read the book, you know what happens next. Another another thing, and by gosh, I kind of wish I forgot about them, but I kind of have to mention them. There was that um that king of Lake Town that was played by Stephen Fry and his oh, that weasel of a man named Alfred. Um, I don't know why Peter Jackson had to cut Alfred's death in um in the Battle of the Five Armies, because in the Battle of the Five Armies, we we just all assume that the coward Alfred, if you've seen the movies, you know what I mean. This cowardly man named Alfred, um, just puts on a dress, takes some of the good, and leaves, right? Well, apparently in the extended version, he accidentally gets catapult into I think a dwarves not a dwarf, I think he gets catapulted into like a um a troll's mouse and the troll's chok and the troll troll. It's hard to say the troll chokes on him, but also Alfred is suffocating because there's a I think a blanket that's wrapped around him, so they both die of suffocation. I was like, why do they have to cut that? And we have to see in the extended version. Because everybody wanted to see that dude die. Everyone wanted to see him die. He was a coward, weasel someone that's just like controlling. Uh okay, Rantover, but yeah, those those two folks were the were made up by Peter Jackson. I kinda wish they weren't, but but it's whatever. Um what else? Um, I guess like the barrel scene and the desolation of Smalg, they're chased by elves, yes, but they're also chased by orcs, but that's in the that's in the that's only in the movies. Um that's about but that's just like a bigger change. I think that's just a driving point, I guess you could say. Um, I mean yeah, there's there's a lot. I guess I could also say the deaths of Bog and the Deaths of Bog in the as I mentioned, he's not mentioned that on the animated movie, but in the in the live action movie, Legolas kills him. In the book, Bayar like throws him off a cliff. Oh, something I did forgot to mention, Azar the Defiler, if you guys are fans of Arrow. Um, he's played by Manu Bennett, the guy who played uh Slade and Deathstroke in um Arrow. But I mean, yeah, there's so many of them. This was the only book in the entire Middle Earth realm that I've ever read. Um, I will say that like um there's some qualities that I like about The Hobbit. I mean, yes, the way he's written, the way that the characters are in, I think I prefer those, but again, doesn't hold a spark to the Lord of the Rings. And like I said, gonna talk about the Lord of the Rings for the next three years, which is uh it's hard to say that I had to wait till um till 2028, I believe, to talk about the 25th anniversary of the Return of the King. Because the Return of the King, as I said, is my favorite of the trilogy. But also in 2028, but earlier within that year, I do want to talk about the Beatles. I gotta talk about the Beatles because we know that though those four movies are coming out the exact same day on the exact same year. So 2028, if my podcast is still going, I definitely want to talk about them. But I think that's all I could talk about uh for this episode. But I know it's not the best, but um hopefully if things get in order, I might have a f a funner, a really, really fun uh mid-season um mid-season finale, I guess you can say, or the end of the year um episode before we go on winter break, and then I come back like in January. But uh yeah, uh be prepared for that one. Um if if things don't go out, I I think I could come up with something last minute. But other than that, uh you guys have a great night, day, morning, whenever you're listening to this. Signing off the