Episode 54

Gilbert talks about the 30 years of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame and gives an update on his planned feature film.

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Alright, and welcome to today's episode with All About the Media Podcast. So I just want to give a couple of things real quick before we even move on. There were some things that uh caught my eye recently. I would say, like, if y'all were to ask me, like, hey Gilbert, how come like when y'all were talking about obsession, y'all and talk about what was happening with Halloween Horror Night? Well, that's because we actually recorded that before the announcement even happened. So like here are my thought process, and I want to talk about something else I didn't get a chance to earlier in the, I would say the first episode, and that is let's just put it this way. So I understand the some of the outrage of Halloween Horror Night because we know like Nikki was the victim of you know a wish that Bear made that was technically his fault, to be honest with you. So there's also the fact that like a lot of horror characters have always been a victim of something. Like, you know, everybody keeps playing Oregon because that was true. She was a 12-year-old girl that was possessed by a demon and was forced to do things with a crucifix, say some foul language and stuff like that. You know, her body was subject to demon's willpower. Leatherface is technically abused by his two older brothers. The thing is, horror movie has a lot of really messed up characters and stuff like that. Angela from Sleepaway Camp. If you haven't seen the movie, this is like one of those movies I don't try to like give up the ending and stuff like that. So if you weren't aren't familiar with this specific movie, please like leave within the next minute or two and then come back after this, or just fast forward within the next minute or two. But if you are familiar with this, then you know that Angela is actually a 12-year-old boy that was forced to become a girl. And then remember, this was a 1980s movie, and it's hard to say that nowadays, but you know, one kid forced to be the sex of another kid. But even then, Angela, even before we knew the secret, was always bullied. And like I'm not gonna say all those kids got what they deserved, but I will say the first person, the older gentleman, did. But again, Angela was a victim of a lot of things, bullying at the camp as well as mental abuse from the aunt that raised her. So there's a lot of benefactors to that. But Andy Navaretti and even Curry Barker said they wanted this to happen. So if you really want to be mad, be mad at them. They said that they wanted this to happen. Again, I know that there are people who are survivors of like domestic violence and stuff like that. I understand that part and everything else that survivors of you know abuse and all that. So I understand it. But Nikki is fictional. Though yes, there were like real life consequences to her character, she's still fictional. That doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for the actual survivors and stuff like that. But it's gonna happen, guys. Universal's gonna do this. You guys also were coming at my boy Sparky, uh, which by the way, Sparky is a great I want you on this podcast. I actually gotta reach out to you, but if anybody knows Sparky, I will tell them I would love him on the show. And the other thing that's been circulating is there was like a picture of a guy that took a picture with Famky Jensen from X-Men. She played Jean Gray, and he said, like, it sucks, I had to keep my distance, and I paid $80 for a photo. And then even somebody said, like, I paid $200 to see Mel Gibson and he wasn't smiling or anything. As somebody who goes to conventions, and that's actually the Famky Jensen one, that's actually from a convention I also went to that exact same weekend. I didn't meet Famki just because I just didn't want to. Um, I'm pretty sure she is a nice person, but like as someone who's been there, people who've paid a lot of money to see these celebrities. I know some people are gonna have some selective outrage and stuff like that, and that's valid. To my point being, we've been told by handlers that, you know, that certain celebrities either they don't want to be touched or they prefer if you stand by them and stuff like that. So here's the thing. First time that happened was when I'm not really, but sort of s met Michael Keaton, so that feeling of like when the celebrity doesn't like look at you when you walk in and stuff like that. That's how I was with Michael Keaton when he came to visit San Antonio. He wore sunglasses, and we were told that he didn't want people to touch him, like he didn't want anybody's arms around him, or shake his hand and stuff like that. And he didn't like look at anybody when they came in. But I understand that frustration, and sometimes it just feels a little weird. But in the end, I mean it was his first convention, and you know, he's people are a little bit different, because remember, celebrities are people too, you know, just like a lot of folks, they don't we don't like being touched, or if we do, we'd rather ask than just people like just crowding us. And I met so many huggers, but yeah, when I met David Harbour, he asked for people to be on his right, I believe. I don't understand that like why specifically, but some of us were just like, as long as we're taking a picture with him, you know, there's that. When I met Thomas Jane, and he was like the last celebrity I met was that convention at that weekend. And all throughout that weekend, I've had celebrities like just putting their arms around me stuff that I just got used to it. So when I went to take a picture with Thomas Jane, I was about to put my arms around him, and he says, Oh no, no, I only let the girls touch me. And I was like, Oh, okay, it just caught me off by surprise. And then he realized that moment that how he said it, he came off as kind of a dick. So before I left, I was about to walk away. It's like, hey, wait, wait, wait, before he goes, and he sticks his fist out and he just gave me a fist bump. And he's like, Have a nice day, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the convention. So, yeah, celebrities have weird things and stuff like that. And even there's this thing with Matthew Lillard, and like I said, I met Matthew Lillard, I know like he's had some, he's got some political stuff with you know, him saying F ice and then him, you know, always talking about his uh non-binary kid. But to my point being, and then there was also like that video where like a guy like he asked Matthew Lillard a question that involved like I guess Drew Barrymore's character, Casey, at the beginning of Scream about like there's a theory about there, and Massie said, What are you smoking? And that was from years later, and then he confronts Matthew Lillard within this past weekend of what the Scream 30th anniversary or something like that, and he said, Like, man, you lost me as a fan and stuff like that. And I just go, Bro, you've literally held on to that grudge for years. I mean, first of all, look, celebrities sign and take pictures with people every day. They meet people every day, and if you met them, chances are they're not gonna remember you because it's literally like a couple of seconds or even a minute or two, and then you know, each of y'all move on with your lives. So it's not like they're gonna remember you in certain points. And it's not even like that. Like, how often do you like you meet somebody at just some random place, and how are you gonna remember them years later? You get what I mean? But this is but like celebrities, they meet people thousands of people a day. So there's that my issue was that he just held on to it for so long and stuff like that. I get like when somebody makes a joke that of something you said and can feel hurtful, but in the end, it's like if you hold on to a grudge for so long, he starts to become bitter and all that, and I don't know. Look, I like Matthew Lillard, he's a great guy, he'll really like you know be comforting towards his fans and stuff like that. And I've been to a lot of conventions and you know, celebrities have their things. And you know, there's also a valid thing that somebody said, Well, sometimes, you know, like people can be sweaty and hot and don't have the courtesy or even have the time to be honest, to like take a shower or brush your teeth or like put on some cologne and stuff like that. So I get it. I've met people and I've worked with people, I swear. I were at the DC concert and somebody's just like breezing in my face and his breast stuff, and I'm like, I didn't want to be rude and push him away, but I had to like kind of play it off and walk away because I kind of didn't want to like hurt his feelings. But yeah, like you get all that, so but that's just all the things I needed to talk about this year, other than we're getting some new Freddy Krueger stuff, a new Freddy Krueger movie, but a competition between Paramount and Universal. But I want to see how that goes. But to today's topic, I want to talk about a movie that was that had its 30th anniversary this year. It literally came out the day before I turned, before I was born, actually. It is The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Now, I'm gonna be honest with you guys, Disney has never always been my favorite when it comes to animated films. The there's only three. That's this movie, The Lion King and Tarzan. Those were really my three. As this and I were we were thinking about like talking about direct to video sequels, and I'm all for that. I just gotta figure out when we're gonna do that episode. Probably if not the fall, then maybe the spring. It's just a lot on my plate right now. But yeah, we're gonna talk about the Hunchback of Notre Dame. It's one of my favorite Disney films. I like the tone and I like the music of this one a lot more. Hellfire, it's always my favorite Disney villain song. So I don't know how I would do this, to be honest with you. I guess you can say like here okay, so here's the thing. What brought me to this and stuff like that? I think when I saw it for the very first time, I was too little, so I wouldn't remember. But I think I was maybe around like eight or nine when I first saw it again. But I wasn't paying attention to it too much. I just knew about like Esmeralda and Quasimodo and Frollo. And let's be honest, guys, how many of y'all like when y'all heard Frollo for the first time, y'all heard Frodo? Because I sure did. But yeah, so there's that. I couldn't remember Phoebus' name until I watched it. I think I was 17 when I watched it again. I think that's when I actually liked the movie a lot more. So if you're wondering how am I gonna do this, I'm gonna talk a little bit about the movie, and then I'm gonna do some comparisons from the book and the movie, but there's actually a vast majority of other hunchback of Notre Dame stuff that's out there that's actually a lot more to talk about. And then um, so far Disney has yet to do a live-action remake of this, as much as I don't like this, and they've been doing like I know Moana has failed, I don't know how they're gonna do with Tango because I wasn't a fan of either or in the beginning. I know Tegancroft is gonna play Rapunzel, and Tegancroft played Raven in the Titans show, which again, James, I still want to do that one, a Raven solo film, but that's about it. So, like with the movie The Hunchback of Notre Dame, it's very different from the book, and I'll get to the book in a little bit. So, here it is. The Hunchback of Notre Dame is a film that was about like, you know, who's really, you know, I wouldn't say ugly, but who's really a monster, and stuff like that. It's a message that's kind of very different from Victor Hugo's novel. Because like in any iteration, Quasimoto is kind of like a tragic figure, even in the Disney version, but he's more likable in this one than any others, to be honest with you. And it's not because like the things they say and stuff like that, it's how he's portrayed and how the book kind of makes him out to be, but Disney does it differently, is very different from the book. Very different. So, but one of the biggest Disney songs that it's known for is um Hellfire, which was at a young age when I first saw this film. I did not really understand the concept of it. I don't even remember like hell being in even in the in the lyrics of the song. So I just remember like, you know, villains would technically have their song, like be prepared from the Lion King, Savages from Pocahontas, even though there it's that the villain in that movie is conflict rather than specifically the uh general in that movie. There's Gaston. So yeah. And when you get older and then when you rewatch the movie, you kind of understand the concept a lot more, and the concept is is that the Frollo, the minister, says like that he's in love with Esmeralda, the Gypsy. And so he's in love with Esmeralda, the Gypsy, and he thinks like she's casted a spell on him because this was the time I don't even know if they were using the term Romani at the time yet. And you know me, I'm not much of a political correctness person, but he called her a gypsy like way too many times in this film. But he's saying like this gypsy was the one that, you know, casted a spell on me. And the song is a prayer. Most people forget this. The song is actually a prayer to Mary, you know, beata Maria, you know, hell Mary. And it's basically saying, like, there's another thing about this song too, is that it talks about like self-righteousness and not seeing the bad in you and stuff like that. But you also feel the conflict of like lust and you know the power of sin and stuff like that, which is weird. I've never heard of a Disney song that had sin in the lyrics of it. But the thing is, is that he blames Esmeralda for you know, our lust comes from ourselves. But you know, he says, like, I'm willing to give in if she will be mine. And if she doesn't, then I'm gonna have to kill that lust, and thus far I'm gonna have to kill her, as in like he's gonna burn her at the stake. You know, she will be mine or she will burn. Which I mean, it's such a great song. I think it's definitely like the top Disney villain songs up there. Uh it's top five. Definitely my favorite, was be prepared. And um the other song from The Lion King 2, I think it's called the Lullaby Song, but that's uh that's something about that song. You get what I mean? And especially the visuals when you get like um, you know, the men in the robes, which is basically, you know, you could say like the warriors of hell or the scribes of hell. Because all of it is hell. Like it kind of shows you like where lust takes you in that be hell itself. But yeah, that's that's much of it. But some of the other songs are very interesting too, like Heaven's Light, which was before that one, were like it's a completely different opposite of what Hellfire is, because Heaven's Light is basically like, you know, Quasimoto says, like, you know, I've been so isolated from humanity because of the way I look, and nobody's ever treated me with respect. But then Esmeralda came and you know just wanted to be my friend and stuff like that, as well as you know, kiss my cheek with south trace of fright. I think that's how the lyrics go. If he said it felt like let heaven's light, like it's that feeling of like you feel like heaven's far away, but once there's actually goodness shown to you, now it feels like heaven's light. And then of course God bless the outcast, which is the song before that one from Esmeralda, which is another prayer to uh Mary. Because you gotta remember this comes from the Catholic faith, which is a little bit different from Protestant faith, because the early Roman Catholics, and you know, most of their prayers go to the saints. Now, forgive me if I am wrong on most of this stuff, but most of the saints' prayers are is basically like the guardians, and basically like you pray to the saints, and the saints will give the message to God. I think that's how it goes, but I've been still wrong a couple of times before. I didn't really entirely grow up Catholic, I've been to a Catholic church a couple of times in my life, but I've been a little bit more in Protestantism than into the Catholicism of things, though I've studied a little bit of Catholicism. I wouldn't say I'm an expert on it. Same thing was like when I talked about the Odyssey last week, I took a Greek mythology course, which is how I learned a couple of the other mythologies, but that doesn't mean like I'm an expert in Greek mythology. I just know a few things here and there. But to my point, God bless the outcast is a really good one. Especially like the casting of this, of all this, because you had Demi Moore as Morelda, Kevin Klein as Phoebus, Tom Hulse as Quasimodo. I wonder if he I wonder if he did some of the songs, because I know Tom Hulse has done a few songs here and there. I don't think Kevin Klein did a song. No, because Phoebus didn't do a song. Who was it? You also had like Jason Alexander and who else was in there? You had Jason Alexander, Charles Kimberg, and Jane Weathers as like the three gargoyles. Those eventually go away pretty soon. Yeah, the thing is I only knew about Jason Alexander. I didn't know about the others to, but it's very interesting how like their names are Victor, Laverne, Hugo, which is weird because like Laverne isn't Hugo's middle name, it's Marie. I'm pretty sure Laverne comes from something else. I don't remember. I'm trying to look too. But yeah. Yeah, his name is Victor Marie Hugo. Um I don't know, so I don't know why they called her Marie in Stella Laverne. But um it'll be interesting when I tell you what actually happens with the gargoyles and the play later on. But it it's very cool and interesting, and it's a little lighthearted, you know, because the play is very not the play, but the book is very dark and mean and this was like what? The book came out in 1831. So this came out, I believe, 30 years before Victor Hugo wrote Les Miserables. So it's very interesting how Disney put into this one. But there's not much to it. I really did do like the movie, the plot of the film. I know they came out with the second film, I wasn't a huge fan of that one, and I could go into details a lot more whenever Susan and I talk about our straight to video sequel films, but that's about what I can tell you. I think it's because I wanted to talk about Hellfire a lot more, considering one time like when I was working at a camp, we were doing a karaoke nine and I sang that song, and I cannot believe I actually held the last note because I sing like crap. Like a hundred percent I sing like crap. I used to be a choir boy as a kid, and then I hit puberty, and then I just gave up. And it's also interesting when you go to Furlo. It's kind of like his last line in that movie was like he should smite the wicked and plunge him in the fiery pit. And when the statue that he was underneath broke on him and kind of turned into a demonic gargoyle, he's literally thrown into the fiery pit. He's basically thrown in hell, which is a lot different. You know what I'm also thinking? Dr. Facilier's song from The Princess and the Frog is um really good too. The Friends on the Other Side. And his death is very almost close to uh Frollo's because Frollo's was technically thrown in hell. Dr. Facilier is dragged in hell, which is very, very like dark for kids' movies technically, but I don't think Disney ever said entirely even though like most of these films are rated G, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, they are rated G. So it's like the references of being thrown or dragged in hell is kind of scary. But I know they're gonna remake it, like not the Hunter Dragon Notre Dame, but Princess and the Frog. They need to bring Keith David back because he's the only one that could do that real justice, because he played the character in the first place. So but yeah, that was pretty much what it was. It's like I just wanted to talk more about the hellfire a little bit more. And then when you see the plays of the performances, like the Broadway. Well, I don't think this the plays ever reached Broadway, but the live performances of the actors who play Frollo, dude, there are some very talented singers, especially like I've seen one school do two versions of the play, which I'll talk about later on. But the two actors that play Claude was really good. I would say I like the second actor who played Claude a lot more than the first. But yeah, 30 years of this film, it's really cool, very interesting. I will always give it a watch, and uh yeah, so I'm gonna take a little break right now. Hi, if you like this content and want to get an update on more content, follow us on Instagram under Tough Love Pictures and subscribe to our YouTube channel and to our Patreon under Tough Love Pictures, where you can get early access to the podcast as well as any other updates to Tough Love Pictures as well. Alright, and we are back. So we are gonna do some comparisons and contrast of the Hunchback of Notre Dame with this movie as well as with a lot of other mediums out there. The good thing is that there's a lot actually to talk about. So the thing about the Hunchback of Notre Dame is that there's more than one adaptation out there, and the fact Disney one is not the first one. The first one that apparently I didn't know, there's a movie that came out, I think, in 1910, called Esmerota, but that one I believe is a lost film. But the first one that from an older uh like an old old one that I saw, and I talked about this many years ago, is one called one that was the Hunchback from Notre Dame that came out in 1923, that starred Lon Cheney. That we've mentioned in in I think a couple of seasons ago. Loncheney, who was considered a man of a thousand faces. This was two years before he did the fan of the opera. But uh Lon Cheney played Kazimoto, uh Patsy Ruth Miller played Esmeralda, Norman Carey played Phoebus. I never talked about Clopin in the movies, but Clopin is obviously the uh like the uh head of the gypsies and stuff like that. So here's the thing. They kind of switched the roles of Frollo and Jeanne. So in the 1996 movie, Frollo is the minister of justice, and the person known that is the archdeacon is kind of like the uh spiritual mentor figure of Esmeralda. Yeah, that's just it's just Esmeralda. Um, he never likes the conflict that happens within his church and stuff like that. But in the older films, including the night it was 1939, star Charles Lawton. There you go. Charles Lawton, another, I think he's an Oscar winner of something. Marino Hara as Esmeralda, Cedric Hardovic as Claude Frollo, and Walter Hampton as the archdeacon, but I think that's still Claude and yeah, Cedric Hard Hardvick. Hardwick, yeah. Cedric Hardwick was a Jeon. So in the book, Frollo, yes, is the actual archdeacon of the church. He found Quasimodo on his doorsteps, and he was he was just a baby. And Claude just took pity on him. And uh Yeah, he took pity on him and just had him be the bell ranger. Now something that the uh the Disney version won't tell you, which is what like the older movies do, is that the realism of the movies, that's what they put in the book, is that because of all the bell ringing and stuff like that, Quasimodo goes deaf. That's something they don't bring up in the Disney adaptation, but they do bring them up in the Broadway adaptation, so and I believe the 2014 uh rehash, because there was one that came out and I think in ninety eight or ninety-nine, like that was in Germany, the first Broadway adaptation of Alan is the dude who wrote all the music for a lot of the Disney songs. There's one in Germany that was the first adaptation that involved Alan's music, which is where we also get some of the other ones too. But I think even that in the German one, he's not deaf. Also, I think because of Quasimoto's deformity, he's also partially blind in one eye. Yeah, there's a lot to go to that one. Yeah, so there's that one. Esmeralda is a lot younger, it's supposed to be be a lot younger. I think she's like 16 in the novel, in Victor Hugo's novel, but there's that. And both so in every adaptation, it treats Phoebus like he loves Esmeralda in every adaptation. The truth be told, Phoebus only wanted Esmeralda for sex. Like, that's what he really wanted for him. Because Phoebus was already a betrothed, which is I think something they put in the 1920s adaptation, but not the 30s adaptation or even some of the other ones. And I think Phoebus is Captain of the Guard in the book, but I don't recall. I think he's Captain of the Guard in some of the other ones, too. But yeah, that's something they've always alluded to that. Phoebus is already engaged to another person. And in fact, in the uh end of the book, he actually ends up marrying that person. And then another thing is that like while Phoebus does get injured in the 1996 movie, because he wouldn't, you know, burnt down the house that supposedly housed uh runaway gypsies and stuff like and you know other stuff like that. Yeah, he gets injured for stealing uh Prolo's horse after Esmeralda frees like helps him because he was about to get executed, but he gets hit by an arrow and like falls in the the river, the sand, I believe. Which is I think something they did put in the place. I know in the German one they did. I don't remember if they did that in the English, like in the 2014 like Broadway production. I don't I keep saying Broadway production, but I I don't think it ever really hit Broadway. I I know I probably mentioned that earlier, but I'm just gonna say the La Jola the La Jola stage production, because that's when it debuted. So I don't know if in the La Jola stage production that he gets injured from an arrow or if he gets injured by Frollo. But in the book, as well as in other adaptations, Phoebus gets stabbed by Frollo when Phoebus wasn't looking. And because Esmerota was at the scene of the crime, Esmerota was blamed for it and was sent to execution by hanging. And then like she does get uh saved by Quasimoto, who yells out sanctuary, which um sanctuary has been implied that like it's basically like a calling, where it's basically no law can enter like the sanctity of the church because we are underhoused by God. I think that's what it was, but I could be wrong, but that's what I interpreted as also as well. Every adaptation kind of except obviously the I think it's Alan Minken, um the Alan Minken adaptation, so like the 96 movie as well as the German and La Jola productions, um Esmeralda shows him kindness, um, which is in every adaptation, the only time Esmeralda shows Quasimoto kindness when Quasimodo is publicly humiliated and flogged. So, and early on in the stories, either Frollo or Jeon, his master, was first tempted by Esmeralda. Now, when Les started to take his heart, he instructed Quasimoto to try and kidnap her. And that's when guards Quasimoto and that's also when Phoebus and uh Esmeralda met. And for punishment, he's publicly humiliated and flogged. And seeing all of that, Esmeralda shows him pity and like gives him water. I think sometimes wipes the sweat off his face and stuff like that. I think she even frees him at some point. That's one of the only times she ever shows him like actual kindness and stuff like that. Because other times, even when like he's defending her, she doesn't really want to get close to him. That's kind of like a lot of things that differ from, you know, each adaptation. Versus like obviously like the public uh humiliation of Quasimoto was because of the uh the Feast of Fools. From you know, after they did Tossie Turvy and he was crowned the uh the king of fools and the guards decided to humiliate him and stuff like that. Esmeralda just couldn't spare to see that and you know, like frees him and like does all that. She shows him more pity in the other adaptations than anything else. There's also like thing I want to bring up about the stones in the uh there is no stones in either the 23 adaptation, what was it, the 1939 adaptation, or even in the book. I think there was one with Anthony Hopkins, I don't think they've ever brought stones there. I think there was also one where Selma Hayek played as Marauda. But I've never seen any of those, so I can't really put into input on that. The stones, obviously, they use gargoyles in this one. It's just for comedic relief as to if they are really talking it up to open interpretation. That's what they also did with the German adaptation. Instead of using like Victor Laverne Hugo, they used the names of the actors that played. So it was like Lon, Charles, Antoine, Loncini, Charles Lawton, and Anthony Hopkins. And also this, like in the German adaptation, they brought in two songs that they would eventually use in the La Jola stage production, as well as any future uh stage production, even before the La Jola productions. So one of them is uh Top of the World, where it's basically like Esmeralda's being shown, you know, the biggest view of Paris from the top of Notre Dame, and as murder says, like, I feel like I'm on top of the world. You know, it's not like you know, Jack's I'm king of the world. It's like, you know, you get a good view, and I'm pretty sure that view is really awesome. And the stones are telling him, Yo, Quasimodo, like say something, you know, like they're giving him the confidence and stuff like that. And the other song that it also involves Goyos is uh made of stone from the German adaptation, which they also used in the La Jola productions, which is basically like Quasimodo's forced back into Notre Dame after Frollo came in, took over the not the Feast of Fools, what's the other one? It's also brought up in the books as well as the older uh adaptations and stuff like that. It's like where they hide from, you know, all the policing and stuff like that. Which is interesting because it's a lot shown a lot more in the book, and even in the dirties adaptation than in the uh it was like right after that uh Frollo has Esmerata and Quasimoto just feels like this is his fault, and the stones are trying to tell him, like, you gotta help her out, they're gonna kill her. And quasi is like, if I go, I'm just gonna make things worse. Telling them like you wouldn't understand everything I'm feeling because you're made of stone, and I wish I was made of stone, so I don't have these feelings. It's a very deep song, and it would have been cool if Disney had decided to, or even Alan decided to put the song into the movie. If they ever remake it, they'll definitely put that in there, and it would I hope they really do that justice. But yeah, those were some of like the other ones. Uh, I think there was also like yeah, it's like when Phoebus first shows up and he's like looking for like where do I go and stuff like that. There's also another song that uh introduces Esmerata in the German adaptation, which I felt like they should have put in the La Jolo production, but and I liked it too. I it was it was I think it's called the Balancing Act. Or it's like we are introducing the the Court of Miracles very early into the uh you know uh Klopan is just telling them like welcome everyone to the Court of Miracles, and that's when we meet Esmeralda. And supposedly I think all the Romanis were coming from Egypt or I don't know, gypsies, or Romanis are called gypsies just because they thought they come from Egypt. And in case you didn't know, Romani's is a is the correct term. I think it's also because like it's kind of original Romania, but gypsies is a derogatory term, it is just another way of calling them like brown Europeans, you know, brown folks and stuff like that. A lot of outdated words here, guys. To my point, I don't think I would have been a cooler way to introduce Esmerata than her like showing her until what was it, the Feast of Fools, which is what they put in the La Jola productions. But yeah. Another thing is though, they don't have Achilles and Jolly, which is the horse and the uh the goat in any of the productions. I don't know about I know in the book Jolly is there. I don't remember if even in the movies, like the 20s movies and 30s movies, the 23 uh film and the 39 film, Jolly is there, but I don't think I've seen Achilles or if they do show Phoebus's horse. I don't think he ever called her it called him Achilles, but it's been a while since I've seen either or. But they're not in the productions. One person that's been alluded in like in a lot of recent adaptations is I think his name is Grigor. Gregor Gringor? Hold on. It's uh Pierre Greenor. He is a uh he's a poet who's been hiding with the Romanis. He's kind of forced to marry Esmerata to save his life. Um like in the scene, as well as what they when they bring him up in the the Court of Miracles song. Yes, they hang anybody that's kind of like not them, so that's what they're gonna do. So Gringer kind of forced to marry Esmerata as in a way of like avoiding execution. There's that, so he's never brought up in either the movies, the 96th film, or any of the productions. He is brought up in the 23 film as well as in the 39th film. In the 39th film, he's actually a lot more prominent in there. And I think that's also because in the 1939 film, uh Phoebus does die from the stab wound. Well, as well as in the 23 film, he's only bedridden for a little bit until the end. Because in the end, the fight at Notre Dame, that is actually from the Romani trying to take uh Esmeralda. Because Quasimoto freed Esmeralda from being hung the first time around. You'll learn what I mean when I say the first time around. Quasimodo saved her from the hanging, the execution the first time around. But the Romani thought that she's being held prisoner at the church. They tried to Norman side Notre Dame to free Esmeralda. There's also another miscommunication because Quasimodo doesn't really know any other Romanis. They thought they were there to take Esmeralda and execute her again. So it's Quasimodo versus a whole army of Romanis, and even like some of the soldiers of Paris chime in. It's a lot more different than in the uh than the 96 film, as well as the stage productions, where it's the citizens of Paris versus the corrupted officials that's led by uh Frollo. Which another thing I need to bring up, while in the German production, as well as in the you know the 1996 film, Claude Frollo is like the Minister of Justice. When they started to redo it at the La Jolla productions, he's back as the archdeacon, and Jaeon, Jaeon was never mentioned in either the German production or the 96 film. And he takes Frollo's like place as the villain and the 1923 and the 1939 film. But Jaeon comes back in the 2014 La Jolla productions. I just wanted to make sure I'm getting that right. Or I think it's called La Joya because it's the two L's. It's just still say La Jola. I think it might be pronounced La Joya, but in the La Jola productions, La Joya, you know, I am gonna get murdered by most folks for me saying La Jola, but Jeehan is aesthetically still a party boy, as what they put in the production, as how he was in the book. He is uh Quasimoto's father, him and Quasimoto's mother, which is a Romani girl that he just runs off with when they were young, they died from a plague, uh, whatever plague that was happening at that time, because this was like 1400 Paris. Jeanne asked Frollo, can you take care of our son? And that's how it goes. That's actually how it goes, but I don't know if Disney would ever do it that way. And the introduction is different, like the Bells of Notre Dame, because the Bells of Notre Dame in the movie, the 96th film, you know, like the Romani's were trying to go to Paris and Frollo came and prevented that from happening. And there's a lot more of a conversation with Frollo and the Archdeacon in German production, where it's like even Frollo has some doubt what he did was like the action that he caused him's mother to die, which was in his hands, he's even had some doubt about that. Gave him a little bit of humanity. And the stage production, the La Joya stage production, gotta make sure I'm saying that right now. The La Joya stage production, Kazimoro's parents died from the plague. Originally Frollo was gonna drown him in the sand. Frollo said, Oh god, this is a test you've given me. Because this isn't just Tolfrum Clopin as it's usually told, it's to from just a different source of choir, I would say. Yeah, it's very interesting. There's a lot more to even decipher too. Cause like I what I want to talk about is like everything ends differently. So like in the book, after I guess you can say like Quasimodo and the French soldiers like stopped the Romanis and Clopon dies during the fight, Esmerata snuck out of the church from Gringor. They were about to take her, except French soldiers were there, and Gringor just took Jali instead of Esmerata, and she gets captured, and she gets executed by hanging it again. And Frollo, he was laughing as if like he's free from this curse and stuff like that. And Quasimoto kind of puts two into together and throws Frollo off, I guess, the scaffoldings of the church, and Frollo falls to his death. And they kind of do the same thing with the 1923 and the 1939 film, it was Jeon, except Esmeralda doesn't die. She almost can say like attacked by Jehan Frollo. But then you know Quazimoto saves her, and in the 23 film, Quasimoto dies because he gets stabbed a bunch of times. She tries to throw Jeon Frollo off the scaffolding, but in the 39 film, Esmeralda just leaves and Quazimoto says, Why couldn't I be made of stone? Uh so it's kind of like a bittersweet ending. It's like Quazimoto's alone again, but at least Esmeralda's alive. Because in the book, like after Esmeralda dies, Quasimoto just stays at the grave, doesn't move, dies of starvation, and then hundreds of years later, gets deformed bones were about to be picked up but were turned to dust. And that's a very dark ending, obviously. In the 96 film, obviously, she doesn't die. But in the German production, as well as in the La Joya production, she dies from you know asphyxiation or whatever like the toxicity from the smoke. And Frodo was like, now we're free from this, and Quasimoto's like, you're the evil one, and throws him off again the scaffolding. While Quasimoto is accepted by the public, they all also like come together and mourn for Esmeralda. And the high school production, I don't remember when they did the German production, Vrollo doesn't die, nor Esmeralda doesn't die. Quasimodo just has to learn to let Esmeralta go because she was obviously in love with Phoebus. Yeah, it's a lot different. Everything was so different. But I have a little bit more of a fan casting when we come back from break, so if you like this content and want to get an update on more content, follow us on Instagram under Tough Love Pictures and subscribe to our YouTube channel and to our Patreon under Tough Love Pictures, where you can get early access to the podcast as well as any other updates to Tough Love Pictures as well. Alright guys, and we are back. So as of right now, Disney has not yet decided to do a remake of this film. I'm not gonna be totally upset about this. And I think it's actually good on Disney's part. Now, Josh Gad has been wanting to do this for a while and wanted to play as Murata, but things keep getting pushed and stuff. I'm pretty sure the pandemic was one of those reasons. At a certain point, I think Josh Gad's just gonna have to settle for playing the Gargoyle. I think he's even admitted himself. I think he's close to that. I remember seeing a fan casting in there, and one of them was like if they were gonna continue with Josh Gadd as Quasimoto, said Galgado as Esmeraldo, which it wouldn't be too bad of a casting. Fortunately, she just can't sing. That's then against Gal Godot, but then somebody said Charles Dante Esfrodo, which again wouldn't be too bad. I don't know, I forgot who they would have as who was it, man, but in a different time, maybe meant like 2017, 2018, that wouldn't be too bad. Times have changed. Especially because I think in 2017 that's when Beauty and the Beast wa came out, which had Josh Gadd in it, and as well as Wonder Woman that had Galgadau in it, obviously. I don't know what Charles Downs was in at the time. So the question would be like, if I was to cast this, if I was to direct this and all this stuff, who would I have? Like who would be my Esmeralda and my Quasimodo and my Frollo and you know all that? So it's a very complicated one because it's like throughout the years, it's like I've come up with like multiple, multiple castings. It's just that like because it just never happened, and they kind of get aged out or become less important or political reasons. There's so much to decipher. As of right now, I don't know any like younger Romani actors, because I think the important thing is Esmeralda should be Romani or close to Romani. I only can think of one actress that she isn't Romani, but she's close to it, and that is Iman Veyani, who played Miss Marvel. And it's I know it's a weird casting, and I understand that part. But like I think because of I don't know if she's um if she is Pakistani as her character is, but I think she can like have the uh one I think she's young enough to play Esmerota. I mean like she's 24, mommy, it wouldn't be too bad. Maybe if it was like the 2021 2022 season, could be possible. But even I'm thinking she's kind of like phasing out a or aging out a little bit. But as of right now, I can only think of Iman Veyani as Esmerota. Okay, so she does come from a Pakistani background. I believe it's because like the Romanis did come from an Indian Pakistani background. Because I think there was a vast vast migration in Romania. Now, don't have the history of Romani's like to a tier or anything, but I do know that back then and either Miss Flex Bliss can help me with the history or Immigrateful, who's a Romanian immigrant here in Texas. I think he's part of Republican politics. I don't know if he has the full history, but if they have a full history of the Romani slaves in Romania, I mean they could explain a lot better. Assuming they know the entire history. Like I don't know everything about American history. I hardly know jack about Mexican history. So that's why I don't like put my cards on the table of if they know the entire history, just like what they know of. Yes, we there was slavery for 400 years of the Romani folks. And that's pretty much all I know. So never take my word for it. But Iman Vayani, closest thing I could think of. So unless we get an actual Romani actress who's like young enough to play as Marota, yeah, that's the best I can do. So I'm only thinking of it like in the 2026 term, not in a like I don't know. I'm sticking with Imam Vayani. For Quasimoto, I have Gatin Matarazzo. Oh, and it's funny because those two are doing animal farm together. But Gatin does Broadway. He is a really talented singer. It would be interesting if we heard him sing some of the songs, especially out there in uh Made of Stone. He has the singing chops to it. He's done I think he played Gavroche and Le Miserav, so he's already done one Victor Hugo musical. I think he can do it. And yeah, they're this they're actually the same age. That's very interesting. Okay, so yeah, he has the theater production down, and that's it. I think Gatton could be a good Esmeralda. Imagine that. But as Quasimodo, I think that would be interesting, and I think that was always like a lot of fan pics' choice, too. So that'll be mine. So yeah, Gatton. Yeah, I'll have Gatton as uh Quasimoto. So for Phoebus, I don't know. At one time I thought Tom Holland. But I don't know. Like he's done Broadway, he's what's his face? Billy Elliott. There you go. He did Billy Elliott a long time ago when during the stage production in England. And I think he can sing, but I haven't heard him sing, so I don't know. So probably not Tom Holland. We need because like here's the thing, he's dirty, but he doesn't look or sound dirty, okay? So he looks and sounds like he's 15. He's like Ralph Macchio almost, okay? So who could play Phoebus is the question that we all have. And I think that's the toughest part. Is that like we don't want to be too weird with it? It's like it has to be a casting that we're okay with because remember, in the end, they get together. So yeah, it's definitely a tough one, actually. Anything the best thing I can do is maybe Brendan Dwight's, but that's just a name I can think Brendan Dwight. I mean, wouldn't it be too bad? Thomas Sangster also wouldn't be too bad, but that's the best I could think of. Maybe not the best, best, but it's the only one I could think of right now, so not the best cat fan casting choice, but in the end, I couldn't think of anybody else. So as of right now, Iman Viani Esmeralda. Okay, hey guys, if I sound different, it's a different mic. Anyway, sorry for the uh interruption again. So apparently our Season Spark was having some trouble, so for the I'm still doing a crowdfunding campaign, and we're just gonna do it on a basic Indiegogo. So hopefully, if everything goes well, this will be uh released along with the Indiegogo account. So, again, if you want to start doing the Indiegogo crowdfunding to at least hit get $500,000 from my feature of hurt, I do appreciate that. That I'm also recording this like after a bunch of news hit the internet, like Indy Navaretti getting the row part for X-Men and then the internet turning on here. What is wrong with the internet, y'all? Like what? Like, y'all just don't have a life. That's pretty much what it is. Y'all don't have a life. That's you just like to tear people down. And then also um RP the Hidden Paneteer. That's it's just tragic. Praise to her family, especially her parents and her daughter as well. That's all I got. Thank you, and enjoy the rest of the episode. Okay, so for Quasimodo, I have Gatin Matarazzo. Now, oh that's funny because those two are doing animal farm together. But Gatin does Broadway, he is a really talented singer. It would be interesting if we heard him sing some of the songs, especially out there and uh made of stone. So he has the singing chops to it. He's done, I think he played Gavroche and Le Mitharov, so he's already done one Victor Hugo musical. I think he can do it. And yeah, they're the s they're actually the same age. That's very interesting. Okay. So, yeah, he has the theater production down, and that's it. I think Gatton could be a good Esmeralda. I mean Esmeralda. Imagine that. But as Quasimoto, I think that would be interesting, and I think that was always like a lot of fan picks' choice, too. So that'll be mine. So yeah, Gatton. Yeah, I'll have Gatton as uh Quasimoto. So for Phoebus, I don't know. At one time I thought Tom Holland, but I don't know. I don't think he like he's done Broadway, he's uh man, what's his what's his face? What was it? Oh man, I have nobody to talk to right now. So Billy Elliott, there you go. He did Billy Elliott a long time ago when during the stage production in England. And I think he can sing, but I haven't heard him sing, so I don't know. So probably not Tom Holland. We need some because like here's the thing, he's 30, but he doesn't look or sound 30, okay? He looks and sounds like he's 15. He's like Ralph Macchio almost, okay? So who could play Phoebus is the question that we all have, or and I think that's the toughest part. Is that like it's like we don't want to be too weird with it. It's like it has to be a costing that we're okay with because remember, in the end, they get together. So yeah, it's it's it's definitely a tough one, actually. So if anything, the best thing I can do is what's his face? Right now, I think the best thing I can do. Um, what's what's his name? Uh maybe Brendan Thwaites, but that's just a name I can think I can find. Brendan Thwaites. I mean wouldn't it be too bad. Thomas Sangster also wouldn't be too bad, but that's the best I could think of. Maybe not the best, best, but it's the only one I could think of right now, so not the best fan casting choice, but in the end, I couldn't think of anybody else. So as of right now, Iman Viani as Esmerota, Gatin Mazzarazzo as Quasimoto, and Brendan Dwight as Phoebus. I could let go of that one, but still. As for Frollo, that's a that's the toughest one of all. Um because at one point I thought, what if I had Norm Lewis as Frollo? For those that do not know, Norm Lewis would be a casting that would be the most controversial casting of them all. On both sides. And if you're wondering how. So Norm Lewis is a Broadway singer, he has a very talented voice. He's done The Phantom of the Opera, Les Miserables, Sweeney Todd. I think he was the original Triton in the Little Mermaid production. Here's the thing, he's black. And that wouldn't bother me. There's black people in France. I don't know about back in the 1400s, but this is where it's like we wouldn't really care about historical context and stuff like that. But there weren't there are black people in France. It's not even the fact, it's the fact that he's a villain that's gonna like push a lot of people on the left calling racism and bigotry, but as well as people on the right that's gonna say wokeism and stuff like that. But to my point is that it's not the fact that of his color why I'm casting him, it's the vo or fan casting, I'm sorry. It's not the color while I'm fan casting him, it's his voice and the fact that he has the range to play Frollo. He played the Phantom of the Opera and he played Javert. Like if you actually go and listen to him, he I think he could pull off Frollo. Yeah, he doesn't look old, but he actually is old. Like he's in his 60s, if I'm not mistaken. Let's see, Norm Lewis is 63. I mean it's not too bad, but you also gotta have to remember that he has lustful thoughts for a younger, young, young woman. So it's like, how old would be too old? You get what I mean? Because he's acted in like actual films before, but he's never been like in the forefront of it. He's mainly always been in like when he was in the Five Bloods, he was just a character that barely spoke. So I don't know. But I think is I can't think of anybody else. I like this dude pretty well. So I'm sticking with him for now. So I would definitely like to hear how he would sound if he sang Hellfire. Cause like again, here Norm Lewis sing any of the songs from Fantasy Opera in Le Miserab, and I don't know if Trin has a song in the Little Mermaid production, I've never seen it. But I know he also plays Sweeney Todd, so he has the range. So him playing Frollo would definitely be really cool. But again, I think he's gonna get really aged out because this is never gonna do it. Like they have been saying constantly, we are going to do the Hunchback of Notre Dame remake, and they just never have. As much as I don't like the fact, because that's the thing, I don't like the fact they keep doing this, this whole remix and stuff like that. Like at a certain point, you're just gonna have to stop. Like, you get what I mean? You just gotta stop. But um, yeah, uh Iman and Vayani as Maroda, Gatin Maturazzo as Quasimoto, uh Brandon Sweets as Phoebus, and Norm Lewis as um Claude Trollo. As to what which way well like which storyline they would go, I don't know. But you know me, I've lost faith in Disney all in a long time, so but that's the 30 that's what happens when you have 30 years of this uh really great movie. I still watch this day. But yeah, that's all I got, you guys. You guys have a great ninth day morning whenever you're listening to this signing off.