Ben Graham In his Own Words

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Transcript

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Welcome to episode 148 of the show.

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Today talking about Ben Graham,

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largely considered the father of value investing and doing it in his own words.

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So in the last year of his life, he's 82 years old, died in 1976.

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He happened to give three different interviews that we still have today.

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And it's just a fascinating insight into the man because you can see the

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distillation of his thoughts from many years of learning,

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teaching,

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and writing on value investing.

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And what at the end of his life or what turned out to be the end of his life was

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the most important few points that he wanted to pass on to other people.

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So super fascinating.

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I enjoyed learning this about him and I hope you do too.

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So going through, we'll just look at a couple of different interviews.

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I'll just read the transcripts,

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the questions,

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and then the things that I found most interesting about each little excerpt from

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various different interviews.

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So starting off with the first one,

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interviewer asks,

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looking back at your own life in the investment field,

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what are some of the key developments or key happenings would you say when you went

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to Wall Street in 1914?

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Graham's response, well, the first thing that happened was typical.

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As a special favor, I was paid $12 a week instead of $10 to begin.

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The next thing to happen was World War I.

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It broke out two months later and stock exchange was closed.

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My salary was reduced to $10 an hour.

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That is one of those things that's more or less typical of any young man.

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who's beginning his career.

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That was really important to me.

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Outside of having made a rather continuous success for 15 years,

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the other thing that was important to me was the market crash of 1929.

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So stopping right there with just that first response from Graham,

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it's incredible that he says his experience is more or less typical,

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and he starts off at one salary,

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he has his pay cut immediately,

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World War I breaks out,

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The stock market closes.

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Oh,

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and the other significant event that he mentioned,

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the crash of 29,

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and I'm sure the ensuing depression.

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So incredibly understated.

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The man saw historical events just right off in the beginning of his career and

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throughout his career.

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So a very understated opening for the things that really impacted his career,

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because I would not say that those are typical events to happen in a person's

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investing career.

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All right, so jumping back into the interview, the question, did you see that coming?

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This is the crash of 29 at all.

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Were you scared?

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Graham, no, all I knew was that prices were too high.

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I stayed away from the speculative favorites of the time.

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I felt I had some good investments, but I owed money, which was a mistake.

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And I had to sweat through the period of 1929 to 1932.

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I didn't repeat that error after that.

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So jumping out real quick, just a note from me, can we learn from others' mistakes?

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So Graham went into the depression,

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very intelligent,

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able to see things were overvalued,

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but he did have debt,

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which caused him to,

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as he says,

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sweat through the ensuing long period of time.

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So hopefully that's something we can learn as investors is to control the amount of

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debt we have so that we are,

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in a sense,

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robust and able to withstand

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inevitable downturns that come and the uh the curveballs that life throws us so

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jumping back in the interview questioner says did anybody really see this coming

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the crash of 1929 graham's response babson did but he started selling five years

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earlier uh quick note there as well so uh in talking about babson uh the only

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person i know who's really talked about him extensively and studied him at least

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that I've read was Murray Stahl, who obviously we're a huge fan of here at the podcast.

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But he's mentioned him and he's talked about some of Babson's methods and his investment stuff.

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So definitely somebody I want to even learn more about follow up in a later podcast.

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All right, back into the interview.

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The questioner says, then in 1932, you began to come back.

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Graham.

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Well, we sweated through that period.

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By 1937, we had restored our financial position as it was in 1929.

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From then on, we went along pretty smoothly.

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So coming out again to my own note, again, Cram is so understated.

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He says, we sweated through that period, then we went along pretty smoothly.

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Casual, easy to read right past that.

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I'll think about it.

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But that period of 1929 to 1937, eight year period.

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So getting close to a decade it took for him to get back to where he was.

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Number one, he's brilliant and was dedicated to the task of investing.

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So you see, you know, just how

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crazy markets can behave in just how long you can underperform,

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even if you're good at what you do.

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And then just number two,

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again,

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a humble and kind of an understated approach of,

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yeah,

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we underperformed for eight years and then everything was fine after that.

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We just had to get through the Great Depression.

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So jumping back into the interview,

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questioner says,

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the 1937 to 38 decline,

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were you better prepared for that?

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Graham responds, well, that led us to change some things in our procedures.

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One of our directors had made some suggestions to us,

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which were sound,

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and we followed his advice.

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We gave up certain things we had been trying to do and concentrated more on others

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that had been more consistently successful.

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We went along fine.

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In 1948, we made our GEICO investment, and from then on, we seemed to be very brilliant people.

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So coming out of the interview again,

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just to comment on this,

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the GEICO investment was a huge component in Ben Graham's returns if you look back

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at his outsized performance of his Graham Newman fund.

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And one thing you do have to think about there is the GEICO investment,

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from what I've read,

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was largely inspired by,

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if not kind of pushed on Graham,

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by a young Warren Buffett.

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And it was not a very Graham and Dodd type of an investment.

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So interesting just that the Buffett

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Buying a high quality company at a good price stock was one of the best performers

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for Graham,

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who was really an advocate of buying cheap things or cigar butts,

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as Warren Buffett later called them.

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So just an interesting aside.

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Back into the interviewer,

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the questioner says,

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what happened in the only other interim bear market,

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1940 to 41?

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Graham says, oh, that was only a typical setback.

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We earned money in those years.

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So quick note on that.

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What a great mindset again.

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demonstrated by Graham,

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because the 40 to 41 bear market,

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if you look at a chart,

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it doesn't look small,

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doesn't look insignificant.

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But for a man who started his career during World War I,

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saw the market close,

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saw the crash of 29,

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saw the Great Depression,

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went through World War II.

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The guy just keeps on trucking in an impressive fashion.

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And so to him, the 40 to 41 decline, yeah, that's just another thing.

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We made money in those years, no big deal.

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But I think to anybody else,

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even a two-year period of underperformance can feel pretty significant.

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Interesting perspective from Graham.

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So jumping back into the interviewer,

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the questioner says,

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you earned money after World War II broke out?

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Graham says, yes, we did.

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We had no real problems in running our business.

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That's why I kind of lost interest.

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We were no longer very challenged after 1950.

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Graham, about 1956, I decided to quit and to come out here to California to live.

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I felt that I had established a way of doing business to a point where it no longer

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presented any basic problems to be solved.

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So again, just a comment on Graham's perspective, his attitude.

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I wrote down as I was going through the interview,

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amazingly understated in the 42 years between 1914 and 1956,

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which is Graham's career,

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he navigated World War I,

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the 29 crash,

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the Great Depression,

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World War II.

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And over that same time period,

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he lectured at Columbia University,

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where he taught a young Warren Buffett,

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He also wrote Security Analysis and The Intelligent Investor,

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widely considered fundamental works within the value investing community.

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Oh, and he also made himself wealthy from a very humble start.

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Graham also wrote a Broadway play,

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which was unsuccessful,

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but he still wrote one and had it produced.

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He patented two innovative handheld calculators.

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He taught himself Spanish so that he could translate

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a book called The Truce, which was, I guess, a major Uruguayan novel that he was a fan of.

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So by the time he died,

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he knew at least seven languages,

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and amazingly,

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he describes his life as typical and his setbacks as typical

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And his choice to retire as being driven by the fact that he was no longer

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presented any basic problems to be solved.

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So when I first read the interview, I burned right through it.

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And I didn't pay attention to some of these things.

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I went through it a second and a third time.

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And again, I was just shocked.

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A man who saw some of the most formative events of the 20th century talking about

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it very casually.

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And...

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And then even when you reflect on his other accomplishments,

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it's an incredible body of work that he produced that he's very humble about.

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So I thought that that was pretty fascinating.

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Okay, so that's kind of the background on Graham.

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This next brief part is where Graham basically sums up his investing wisdom into

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what I think is essentially three steps.

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But here,

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you know,

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Graham didn't know it was the last year of his life,

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but he gives these three interviews and he repeatedly hits on

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same themes over and over again and they just give us an indication of what from

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his own perspective was worth talking about worth passing along to other people so

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um go back in the interview uh so graham says what's needed is first a definite a

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definite rule for purchasing that's purchasing stocks which indicates a priori

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that you're acquiring stocks for less than they're worth.

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Second, you have to operate with a large enough number of stocks to make the approach effective.

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And finally, you need a very definite guideline for selling.

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So those three themes,

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buy them cheap,

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buy the right amount,

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and know when to sell them,

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are themes that he currently came back to during the course of these couple of

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interviews.

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One note before we get into each step individually,

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I could not believe how much Graham reminded me of Joel Greenblatt.

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So if you read Magic Formula or some of Greenblatt's other popular books,

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I mean,

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it sounds exactly like these interviews from Ben Graham.

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So kind of incredible similarities there.

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Obviously Greenblatt studied Buffett,

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studied Graham,

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and that's where this stuff is coming from.

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But you can see the influence, and not only on

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Greenblatt, but you could see a lot of Buffett.

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You could see a lot of Munger.

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Munger has his criticisms, which I'll talk about later.

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You could see Howard Marks and some of the other investors that are popular to read about.

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Very clear that Graham was foundational within the value investing space.

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All right,

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let's get into the details on these three topics that Graham kept coming back to in

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the interviews.

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So the first one on purchasing stocks for less than their worth.

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So Graham says,

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One way to determine what you should pay for stocks at any given time is to look at

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what quality bonds are yielding.

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I want an earnings ratio twice as good as the bond interest ratio.

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You should select a portfolio of stocks that not only meet the P.E.

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requirement, but also are companies with a satisfactory financial position.

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I favor a simple rule.

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A company should own at least twice as much as it owes.

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An easy way to check on this is to look at the ratio of stockholders' equity

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to its assets.

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If the ratio is at least 50%, the company's financial condition can be considered sound.

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So another note here,

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interesting that after all the volumes of work produced by Graham on valuation,

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he ends up with a highly simplistic valuation method,

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which again,

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I hate to keep coming back to this,

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but it's similar to Greenblatt's philosophy.

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So if you read

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Magic Formula, he talks a lot about you want good and you want cheap.

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So you want a company to produce a lot of free cash flow and you want one that

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sells at a low price relative to the cash flow it's producing.

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That's what that Magic Formula screener that's online is basically looking at.

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And here Graham is saying the same thing.

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So the first of his three principles he harps on is just find something that's

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yielding high cash flow and find something that's selling cheaply.

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All right,

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going on to the second point,

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which is buying a large enough number of stocks to make the approach effective.

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Graham says,

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to give yourself the best odds statistically,

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the more stocks you have to play with,

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the better.

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A portfolio of 30 would probably be an ideal minimum.

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So note for me,

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Graham was going for an approach that could be systematized,

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something anyone could do.

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He wanted reliability and simplicity.

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to help guardrail investor emotions and human foibles.

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I'll talk more about this later,

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but you can definitely see that Graham was not trying to do the same thing as

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Buffett and Bunker.

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He wasn't trying to become

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a billionaire and make the most profitable company in America.

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He wasn't trying to get things to that scale.

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He was looking for a system that he could teach to university students that they

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could take,

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that they could apply,

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the average person could use,

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and it would work reliably.

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So different goals, but we'll talk more about that later.

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All right, going back to what Graham said.

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Well, naturally, the thing that I have been talking about so much this afternoon is applying

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a simple criterion of the value of the security.

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But what everybody else is trying to do,

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pretty much,

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is to pick out the next Xerox,

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the next 3M,

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because of their long-term futures,

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or to decide that next year the semiconductor industry would be a good industry.

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These don't seem to be dependable ways to do it.

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So, again, a note.

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Greenblatt talks about this, again, in that same book.

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I think it's in Magic Formula, where he had some

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relatives that would go to estate sales and country auctions.

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And when they were there, they weren't looking for a painting that was from the next Picasso.

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In other words,

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the greatest,

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if you compare that to companies,

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we're not looking for the next Google,

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the next Amazon,

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the next Facebook.

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He was looking for something that they could determine a price on.

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So an artist who had sold something for a known amount of money and where they

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could buy that piece of art or that thing for less than it was worth.

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So just again,

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another similarity that's interesting to these other investors that followed after

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Graham.

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All right.

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Point number three.

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Finally, you need a definitive guideline for selling.

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This is the final thing that Graham really harped on throughout his interviews.

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The questioner in this interview said, how long should I hold on to one of these stocks?

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In other words, these stocks that fit the criteria Graham was talking about.

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Answer from Graham.

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First, you set a profit objective for yourself.

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An objective of 50% of cost should give good results.

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In other words, a 50% return.

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Question.

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What if it doesn't reach that objective?

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Answer.

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You have to set a limit on your holding period in advance.

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My research shows that two to three years works out best, so I recommend this.

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If a stock hasn't met your objective by the end of the second year from the time of

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purchase,

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sell it,

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regardless of price.

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Question, what do I do with the money once I sell it off, once I sell the stock?

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Do I reinvest it in other issues that meet your requirement?

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Answer, usually yes, with some flexibility dictated by market conditions.

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So just paraphrasing as part of Graham, because he goes on for a while about it.

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He says, Graham says, when stocks are undervalued,

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reinvest 75% in stocks.

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And when they're overvalued, reinvest 25% with the remainder in both cases in government bonds.

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So basically what Graham talked quite a bit about market levels.

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So is the market overvalued or undervalued?

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He had ways of determining that, that he liked or he believed in.

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And the idea was if the market generally was overvalued,

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then you were going to put more of your money when you reinvested profits from

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stocks into bonds.

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When the market was undervalued, you were going to put more reinvested dollars back into stocks.

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So pretty simple criterion.

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And again,

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Super similar to some of the other investors that came after him.

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Really to include Greenblatt,

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he just kept coming up in my thoughts because the similarities were so close.

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With the only difference here that I haven't heard too many investors since Graham

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talk about reinvesting in bonds.

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That's probably because throughout the later part of the 1900s,

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bond rates,

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especially after 1980,

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kind of just continued to come down.

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There are a whole lot of investors now advocating a split between bonds and stocks.

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Again, that was a very Grahamian focus.

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But of course,

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there are reasons that today that an investor might have a certain amount in bonds.

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All of our individual scenarios and needs are different.

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All right, moving on.

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Clearly, you add to these simple principles an aversion to debt.

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So after sweating it out during the depression, Graham avoided debt.

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So there's these three basic principles.

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Buy cheap.

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Buy enough of the stocks to make up a portfolio.

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We're not trying to find the one or the two next greatest things.

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We're trying to find a basket of stocks that fit a criteria.

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And then number three, have a set criteria for selling.

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But beyond that,

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Graham talked quite a bit about debt and avoiding debt and how debt early on caused

(00:19:08):
that period of sweating it out from 1929 to 1937.

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So avoid debt.

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All right,

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again,

(00:19:16):
this distinction of his work is impressive given how much he wrote on the topic of

(00:19:20):
investing throughout his life.

(00:19:22):
So going back to direct from Graham, Ben Graham says,

(00:19:27):
They call it the Bible of Graham and Dodd.

(00:19:29):
Yes,

(00:19:29):
well,

(00:19:30):
now I've lost most of my interest that I had in the details of security analysis,

(00:19:35):
which I devoted myself to so strenuously for many years.

(00:19:39):
I feel that there are relatively unimportant or that they're relatively

(00:19:42):
unimportant,

(00:19:44):
which in a sense put me opposed to the developments in the whole profession.

(00:19:49):
I think we can do it successfully with a few techniques and simple principles.

(00:19:53):
The main point is to have the right general principles and the character to stick with them.

(00:20:01):
For me, he offers a few easy caveats to the system.

(00:20:06):
So we talked about these three basic rules.

(00:20:08):
We talked about avoiding debt.

(00:20:09):
but Graham mentions a couple other things as far as investing that would work.

(00:20:17):
So there's these three basic principles he talks about,

(00:20:19):
but there are at least three other ways you can invest that he thinks would work.

(00:20:22):
So starting off with Graham directly quoting,

(00:20:25):
he says,

(00:20:25):
I would say that if a stock with $50 of working capital sells at $32,

(00:20:31):
that would be an interesting stock.

(00:20:34):
If you buy 30 companies like that, you're bound to make money.

(00:20:39):
So this note reminds me of Buffett's purchase of Korean stocks years back.

(00:20:43):
So there's a famous example.

(00:20:44):
Buffett had some money that was outside of Berkshire Hathaway.

(00:20:47):
He bought, I think it was sort of like the old Value Line books equivalent.

(00:20:55):
But for Korean stocks, he really didn't speak the language or know much about the companies.

(00:20:59):
He just bought a whole slew of these kind of grand,

(00:21:02):
cheap stocks,

(00:21:03):
held them,

(00:21:04):
made quite a bit of money off of the basket.

(00:21:07):
Even Buffett maybe never graduated from Graham and Dodd investing.

(00:21:12):
All right, second, special situations.

(00:21:16):
So that comment about special situations from Graham did not come from an interview directly.

(00:21:21):
It came from a speech he gave in 1963.

(00:21:24):
But again,

(00:21:24):
I still think it's in his own words because this is what he stood up and

(00:21:27):
communicated to people.

(00:21:28):
But he basically said special situations were another example of

(00:21:32):
And that talk that I'm going to quote from is titled Securities in an Unsecure World.

(00:21:37):
You can find it online or I'll drop it in the show notes.

(00:21:40):
So Graham said,

(00:21:41):
finally,

(00:21:42):
there is the wide field of special situations,

(00:21:45):
reorganizations,

(00:21:46):
mergers,

(00:21:46):
takeovers,

(00:21:47):
liquidations,

(00:21:47):
etc.

(00:21:48):
This is a professional area,

(00:21:50):
but it is not impossible for intelligent investors to profit handsomely from it if

(00:21:56):
they approach security operations as they would commercial business.

(00:22:03):
who has three basic rules, is concentration in companies you're closely connected to.

(00:22:09):
So Graham says,

(00:22:12):
exception,

(00:22:16):
a man may put and keep most of his funds in shares of a promising business with

(00:22:21):
which he is closely connected.

(00:22:24):
So my quick note on that was,

(00:22:26):
for all of Graham's learning,

(00:22:28):
teaching,

(00:22:28):
and writing about investing throughout his life,

(00:22:31):
it's so fascinating to me

(00:22:33):
that in the final year of his life,

(00:22:34):
he repeatedly offers such clear and simple wisdom to investors.

(00:22:40):
And if we just recap them, there's the three basic principles he talks about.

(00:22:46):
The first, buy high-earning companies at low prices.

(00:22:49):
The second, buy them in groups.

(00:22:51):
The third, stick to a defined holding period, two to three years.

(00:22:56):
And then he further reminds us to avoid debt throughout his writing or in speaking business.

(00:23:02):
And then the only exceptions he offers to his basic advice are,

(00:23:05):
first,

(00:23:06):
buy groups of stocks if you can get them for less than two-thirds of working

(00:23:10):
capital,

(00:23:11):
number two,

(00:23:11):
special situations,

(00:23:13):
and number three,

(00:23:14):
concentration in companies you're closely connected to.

(00:23:17):
And those caveats were interesting to me because they reminded me of Buffett in his

(00:23:22):
partnership years.

(00:23:24):
There was a podcast, or there is a podcast, we did about...

(00:23:28):
this a while back um trimmer the title of the book i think it was buffett's

(00:23:32):
buffett's ground rules um but anyway warren buffett in the partnership era talks

(00:23:37):
about these three categories that he puts his investments in and he uses the terms

(00:23:41):
generals workouts and controls and this sounds exactly like ben graham's caveats

(00:23:47):
because generals were uh you know the quality companies that you're investing in

(00:23:55):
The workouts were essentially special situations, which is number two of Graham's categories.

(00:24:01):
And then the controls were the third kind of Grahamian caveat where he said you can

(00:24:06):
concentrate in companies you're closely connected to.

(00:24:08):
So when Warren Buffett talked about controls,

(00:24:11):
if Buffett could buy enough stock to influence the company,

(00:24:14):
take over management of the company,

(00:24:16):
or wholly own the company,

(00:24:18):
then he could unlock value that was not available for him to unlock if he was just

(00:24:21):
a minority shareholder.

(00:24:23):
So another fascinating similarity where you see Buffett having learned from the

(00:24:28):
master,

(00:24:28):
as it were.

(00:24:29):
All right,

(00:24:30):
so in summary,

(00:24:32):
I was amazed at how much of Buffett,

(00:24:34):
Greenblatt,

(00:24:34):
Marx,

(00:24:35):
and others I saw in what Graham taught.

(00:24:38):
And then I couldn't help but remember Munger's criticism of Graham.

(00:24:42):
Throughout the interview, just Munger kept coming up because he was pretty critical of Graham.

(00:24:47):
Munger made statements like, Ben Graham had a lot to learn about investing.

(00:24:51):
or that Graham was stuck on his experience of the Great Depression,

(00:24:57):
or even that in the end,

(00:24:59):
Buffett and Munger were much better investors than Graham.

(00:25:03):
So there was a whole lot of criticism of Graham.

(00:25:08):
But all due respect to Charlie Munger,

(00:25:10):
because he's an incredible investor,

(00:25:11):
and I've learned a ton from him,

(00:25:13):
it really seems to me that number one,

(00:25:16):
The time that Ben Graham went through was incredible.

(00:25:19):
Again,

(00:25:19):
he starts off with World War I,

(00:25:21):
market closes,

(00:25:22):
1929 crash,

(00:25:24):
Great Depression,

(00:25:25):
World War II.

(00:25:26):
These were major events.

(00:25:28):
And I think any normal person would have been affected by those,

(00:25:32):
would have thought differently about debt,

(00:25:34):
would have thought differently about valuation.

(00:25:37):
So got to give somebody a little bit of credit.

(00:25:39):
I've even heard in other talks where Munger talked about the depression to a

(00:25:43):
generation of now people who had not been alive.

(00:25:45):
And of course, Munger was not working during the depression.

(00:25:47):
He was a young child, but Munger talked about how bad it was.

(00:25:51):
And,

(00:25:52):
you know,

(00:25:52):
you people these days don't know and you don't understand and nobody had any money

(00:25:55):
and it was terrible.

(00:25:56):
And so for Munger to criticize Graham, who was in the investing world at that time,

(00:26:02):
It's just interesting because certainly Graham would have experienced a lot and

(00:26:08):
internalized a lot,

(00:26:09):
and that would affect how he functioned.

(00:26:11):
That's just human.

(00:26:13):
But the other thing I found fascinating was, again, Graham was trying to do something different.

(00:26:21):
He was an academic who wanted to understand the market.

(00:26:26):
He wanted to create a system he could teach.

(00:26:29):
He wanted to be able to pass something simple onto others that they could employ themselves.

(00:26:33):
And then once he was independently wealthy and in his own words,

(00:26:37):
no longer saw problems to be solved that were interesting,

(00:26:40):
he retired,

(00:26:42):
moved on to a different life.

(00:26:43):
He didn't think about business and securities and he was writing books and,

(00:26:48):
you know,

(00:26:48):
learning things and whatever else he was doing.

(00:26:51):
So the motivation, the end goal was different.

(00:26:56):
Munger and Buffett often say that Graham's methods would never work with the sums

(00:27:01):
that they had to deal with at Berkshire.

(00:27:03):
But again,

(00:27:04):
for most people,

(00:27:05):
most people listening to this podcast,

(00:27:06):
and me included,

(00:27:07):
nobody's dealing with the sums that Berkshire Hathaway is dealing with in terms of

(00:27:11):
investing their money.

(00:27:13):
So this method that Graham summarizes at the end of his life,

(00:27:19):
of identifying good companies,

(00:27:22):
selling cheaply,

(00:27:23):
buying a basket of them,

(00:27:25):
holding,

(00:27:25):
selling with a defined criteria.

(00:27:28):
It probably works just fine if you want to get into

(00:27:31):
the single digit millions or a net worth of tens of millions,

(00:27:37):
something like that number,

(00:27:38):
this system probably works just fine.

(00:27:40):
There's probably plenty of bargain stocks out there and you're not encumbered by

(00:27:47):
the amount of capital that you're trying to reinvest.

(00:27:50):
So interesting that Munger was so critical and maybe in my opinion did not acknowledge

(00:27:56):
well enough that Graham had a different goal in mind than did Buffett or Charlie Mugger.

(00:28:02):
So anyway, fascinating stuff there.

(00:28:04):
All right.

(00:28:10):
Yeah, that's all the notes I had on that.

(00:28:11):
Really enjoyed digging into those interviews.

(00:28:14):
I didn't know that Graham happened to have given three interviews in the last year of his life.

(00:28:18):
So I did appreciate the fact that we had a chance to learn from him.

(00:28:25):
and see his wisdom kind of distilled before he left us.

(00:28:31):
So hopefully you guys learned from that too.

(00:28:33):
One note before we go, Graham was obviously a numbers-driven investor.

(00:28:39):
My partner and I, we are numbers-driven as well.

(00:28:42):
And when it comes to getting the information we want for investing, we both use ROIC.ai.

(00:28:50):
So for this particular podcast, probably going forward,

(00:28:53):
There is a link in the show notes.

(00:28:56):
And if you use ROIC.ai or choose to sign up for the paid feature at that website,

(00:29:03):
you'll help out the podcast.

(00:29:04):
You'll help us out in the process.

(00:29:05):
But I love this site.

(00:29:08):
Been using it for years.

(00:29:10):
So has my partner.

(00:29:10):
They have a great way of distilling all the information you're looking for in one place.

(00:29:17):
And I think one of the things I like best about it is there's a tab that

(00:29:21):
next to the financials and the ratios and the charts and all the other data that

(00:29:27):
you're looking for,

(00:29:29):
there's another tab on our IC.ai where you have the transcripts from quarterly

(00:29:34):
calls and from annual calls.

(00:29:37):
And to have all that on one space where you can look up what management is

(00:29:42):
thinking,

(00:29:42):
what they're saying during the calls,

(00:29:44):
what the analysts are saying,

(00:29:45):
and then click right over to another tab,

(00:29:47):
but you're on the same website and see multiple years of

(00:29:51):
you know,

(00:29:52):
financial history,

(00:29:53):
data,

(00:29:54):
whatever else you want to know about the company is just super helpful,

(00:29:57):
great website.

(00:29:58):
So we use it all the time.

(00:29:59):
If you decide to check it out and maybe sign up, we would appreciate that.

(00:30:05):
And quite a bit of the website you can see and use for free as well.

(00:30:09):
So if you haven't used the website, I would suggest it.

(00:30:12):
So ROIC.ai, if you're going to sign up, please use our link and appreciate it.

(00:30:18):
Kind of went long today, but

(00:30:20):
We will see you again soon with another investing write-up.