{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":13.913,"endTime":14.814,"body":"Hello."},{"startTime":14.814,"endTime":17.45,"body":"Welcome to our friendly computer."},{"startTime":17.45,"endTime":19.386,"body":"I am Camila Galaz."},{"startTime":19.386,"endTime":22.722,"body":"I am a research based visual artist,"},{"startTime":22.922,"endTime":26.993,"body":"writer and experimental filmmaker."},{"startTime":27.06,"endTime":30.43,"body":"Oh, I'm Ana Meisel."},{"startTime":30.463,"endTime":34.234,"body":"I'm a web developer,"},{"startTime":30.463,"endTime":34.234,"body":"and I work in online education,"},{"startTime":34.234,"endTime":38.471,"body":"and I do net art stuff."},{"startTime":38.538,"endTime":42.976,"body":"Commissioned Carmila a long time ago"},{"startTime":38.538,"endTime":42.976,"body":"to do a project on Cybersyn."},{"startTime":42.976,"endTime":47.28,"body":"And now here we are,"},{"startTime":42.976,"endTime":47.28,"body":"three episodes in."},{"startTime":47.313,"endTime":49.015,"body":"Three episodes in I know."},{"startTime":49.015,"endTime":51.451,"body":"How are you this weekend?"},{"startTime":51.451,"endTime":52.552,"body":"Yeah, I'm good."},{"startTime":52.552,"endTime":55.822,"body":"And I feel like"},{"startTime":52.552,"endTime":55.822,"body":"I've done a billion things,"},{"startTime":55.822,"endTime":58.825,"body":"but I can't even recall."},{"startTime":58.892,"endTime":62.896,"body":"I have been taking up a bunch of hobbies"},{"startTime":62.896,"endTime":67.333,"body":"this year, so I was working on my ceramics"},{"startTime":67.434,"endTime":71.871,"body":"to of my friends that I, we do"},{"startTime":67.434,"endTime":71.871,"body":"ceramics every week and we just make some"},{"startTime":71.871,"endTime":76.676,"body":"like parts and things that we need"},{"startTime":71.871,"endTime":76.676,"body":"around the house and like glaze together."},{"startTime":76.743,"endTime":79.412,"body":"So it's been really cute"},{"startTime":76.743,"endTime":79.412,"body":"and I'm slowly getting the hang of it,"},{"startTime":79.412,"endTime":82.115,"body":"but it's really difficult"},{"startTime":79.412,"endTime":82.115,"body":"like throwing on the wheel."},{"startTime":82.115,"endTime":86.486,"body":"I know everyone says this, the throwing on"},{"startTime":82.115,"endTime":86.486,"body":"the wheel is really annoying."},{"startTime":86.653,"endTime":92.692,"body":"Well, I feel like it only works"},{"startTime":86.653,"endTime":92.692,"body":"if you have the assistance of a ghost."},{"startTime":92.792,"endTime":96.262,"body":"What do you mean, a ghost"},{"startTime":96.362,"endTime":97.564,"body":"My joke didn't land."},{"startTime":97.564,"endTime":99.699,"body":"No, I'm talking about, um"},{"startTime":99.699,"endTime":102.068,"body":"What's that? What's that Patrick Swayze movie?"},{"startTime":102.068,"endTime":104.704,"body":"Oh, yeah, it's really good."},{"startTime":104.704,"endTime":106.372,"body":"It's called Ghost."},{"startTime":106.372,"endTime":107.44,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":107.44,"endTime":112.112,"body":"I don't know if at the point where he's"},{"startTime":107.44,"endTime":112.112,"body":"helping her with throwing the clay,"},{"startTime":112.112,"endTime":117.617,"body":"I don't know if he is a ghost"},{"startTime":112.112,"endTime":117.617,"body":"in that same,"},{"startTime":117.717,"endTime":118.351,"body":"though, I don't think"},{"startTime":118.351,"endTime":122.055,"body":"she ever finished her pot"},{"startTime":118.351,"endTime":122.055,"body":"that she was making did she."},{"startTime":122.222,"endTime":124.591,"body":"Well, there you go."},{"startTime":124.591,"endTime":125.525,"body":"Yes, he was."},{"startTime":125.525,"endTime":127.46,"body":"He was just distracting her. Yeah."},{"startTime":127.46,"endTime":129.329,"body":"The ghost."},{"startTime":129.329,"endTime":132.999,"body":"Distracting."},{"startTime":133.066,"endTime":133.9,"body":"What about you?"},{"startTime":133.9,"endTime":135.268,"body":"How's New York?"},{"startTime":135.268,"endTime":137.937,"body":"Oh, it's okay. There's."},{"startTime":137.937,"endTime":140.707,"body":"We had, like, a bomb cyclone last week,"},{"startTime":140.707,"endTime":144.944,"body":"and yes, that's happening or,"},{"startTime":140.707,"endTime":144.944,"body":"you know, and the snow."},{"startTime":144.944,"endTime":148.982,"body":"So there's bits of snow around,"},{"startTime":144.944,"endTime":148.982,"body":"but we're not engulfed."},{"startTime":148.982,"endTime":150.416,"body":"And now it's just rainy."},{"startTime":150.416,"endTime":154.187,"body":"It's just super rainy. So. Yeah. And,"},{"startTime":154.287,"endTime":156.823,"body":"you know, just working on my projects,"},{"startTime":156.823,"endTime":160.026,"body":"being my hobby is pool."},{"startTime":160.093,"endTime":163.496,"body":"I picked that up a little,"},{"startTime":160.093,"endTime":163.496,"body":"so I just had my six month"},{"startTime":163.563,"endTime":167.1,"body":"pull of a sari, so I thank you."},{"startTime":167.133,"endTime":170.403,"body":"I got a glove. Yeah."},{"startTime":167.133,"endTime":170.403,"body":"I can't show it to you."},{"startTime":170.403,"endTime":171.571,"body":"I don't have it with me anymore."},{"startTime":171.571,"endTime":174.574,"body":"But, I mean, it's like in my pool case."},{"startTime":174.574,"endTime":176.876,"body":"But it's very smart."},{"startTime":176.876,"endTime":180.513,"body":"It's got, like,"},{"startTime":176.876,"endTime":180.513,"body":"it just goes over your thumb"},{"startTime":180.513,"endTime":184.017,"body":"and then your, like, two fingers and it."},{"startTime":184.017,"endTime":185.852,"body":"How big is it? Like our finger."},{"startTime":185.852,"endTime":187.887,"body":"Like the two. Yeah."},{"startTime":187.887,"endTime":190.89,"body":"That's like"},{"startTime":187.887,"endTime":190.89,"body":"it doesn't have any tips of the fingers"},{"startTime":191.024,"endTime":194.928,"body":"but it helps with like smoothness"},{"startTime":191.024,"endTime":194.928,"body":"when you're shooting."},{"startTime":194.928,"endTime":195.395,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":195.395,"endTime":198.231,"body":"You can't get carpet burn"},{"startTime":195.395,"endTime":198.231,"body":"when you're doing that. Yeah."},{"startTime":198.231,"endTime":202.068,"body":"And it has like a special"},{"startTime":198.231,"endTime":202.068,"body":"a little like suede"},{"startTime":202.168,"endTime":206.673,"body":"on the sides for like grip"},{"startTime":202.168,"endTime":206.673,"body":"I guess on the table."},{"startTime":206.739,"endTime":208.074,"body":"So, you know,"},{"startTime":208.141,"endTime":210.21,"body":"when you're sweating"},{"startTime":210.21,"endTime":212.812,"body":"I mean, I do sweat a lot"},{"startTime":212.812,"endTime":215.348,"body":"when I play pool, mostly I really like."},{"startTime":215.348,"endTime":216.416,"body":"Yes, Yeah."},{"startTime":216.416,"endTime":218.318,"body":"But I'm just like a sweaty person,"},{"startTime":216.416,"endTime":218.318,"body":"I think."},{"startTime":218.318,"endTime":220.053,"body":"Okay, it's good."},{"startTime":220.053,"endTime":225.692,"body":"I just, like, do drills"},{"startTime":220.053,"endTime":225.692,"body":"and play occasional games, but I mostly."},{"startTime":225.758,"endTime":228.761,"body":"Yeah, just like,"},{"startTime":225.758,"endTime":228.761,"body":"do hours of failing drills."},{"startTime":228.928,"endTime":230.029,"body":"Like practice sessions."},{"startTime":230.029,"endTime":231.097,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, I practice."},{"startTime":231.097,"endTime":233.766,"body":"I got a real game"},{"startTime":233.766,"endTime":237.704,"body":"and I've been, like, adjusting my stance,"},{"startTime":233.766,"endTime":237.704,"body":"which is taking a long time."},{"startTime":237.77,"endTime":239.472,"body":"And it's the second."},{"startTime":239.472,"endTime":242.442,"body":"Yes, like the second time"},{"startTime":239.472,"endTime":242.442,"body":"I've had to do that."},{"startTime":242.442,"endTime":244.444,"body":"It's like I learned it"},{"startTime":242.442,"endTime":244.444,"body":"when I started playing pool."},{"startTime":244.444,"endTime":248.548,"body":"I hadn't really played it before,"},{"startTime":244.444,"endTime":248.548,"body":"so I, like, learned how to"},{"startTime":248.615,"endTime":250.55,"body":"stand and aim and things."},{"startTime":250.55,"endTime":255.822,"body":"And then I had like another teacher"},{"startTime":250.55,"endTime":255.822,"body":"that was like re"},{"startTime":255.888,"endTime":257.19,"body":"showing me how to do that."},{"startTime":257.19,"endTime":258.992,"body":"And I learned a few things from that."},{"startTime":258.992,"endTime":263.129,"body":"And now I'm like trying to perfect it"},{"startTime":258.992,"endTime":263.129,"body":"so I can shoot."},{"startTime":263.196,"endTime":266.199,"body":"I want to I just want to be able to shoot"},{"startTime":263.196,"endTime":266.199,"body":"like perfectly straight."},{"startTime":266.232,"endTime":268.468,"body":"That's my goal."},{"startTime":266.232,"endTime":268.468,"body":"I don't even want to, like, win games."},{"startTime":268.468,"endTime":270.536,"body":"I just want to be able to shoot"},{"startTime":268.468,"endTime":270.536,"body":"really, really straight."},{"startTime":270.536,"endTime":271.804,"body":"I want to watch a game."},{"startTime":271.804,"endTime":274.44,"body":"I want to come to New York"},{"startTime":271.804,"endTime":274.44,"body":"and watch a game. Oh, my God."},{"startTime":274.44,"endTime":276.676,"body":"Come to New York and watch a game. Yeah."},{"startTime":276.676,"endTime":278.811,"body":"Yeah. Congrats on your six months."},{"startTime":278.811,"endTime":281.581,"body":"Thank you. Thanks."},{"startTime":281.581,"endTime":283.916,"body":"But yeah,"},{"startTime":281.581,"endTime":283.916,"body":"I'm really excited about this week."},{"startTime":283.916,"endTime":288.888,"body":"This was a topic that I got like very into"},{"startTime":288.888,"endTime":294.427,"body":"and we're looking at the French video"},{"startTime":288.888,"endTime":294.427,"body":"text network called Mini Tell."},{"startTime":294.427,"endTime":298.031,"body":"And I got so intimate"},{"startTime":294.427,"endTime":298.031,"body":"that I started collecting"},{"startTime":298.097,"endTime":300.9,"body":"lapel pins with this whole lapel pins."},{"startTime":300.9,"endTime":301.934,"body":"I have one on now."},{"startTime":301.934,"endTime":306.406,"body":"It's just like the little terminal with,"},{"startTime":301.934,"endTime":306.406,"body":"with the like site address."},{"startTime":306.406,"endTime":308.541,"body":"It's like an advertisement."},{"startTime":308.541,"endTime":309.008,"body":"But really."},{"startTime":309.008,"endTime":313.246,"body":"Yeah, I didn't know that they were like"},{"startTime":309.008,"endTime":313.246,"body":"actual vintage objects."},{"startTime":313.246,"endTime":315.982,"body":"Like, I thought they were just kind of"},{"startTime":313.246,"endTime":315.982,"body":"like someone on Etsy was like,"},{"startTime":315.982,"endTime":318.985,"body":"really got into Mattel and was just making"},{"startTime":315.982,"endTime":318.985,"body":"their own little designs."},{"startTime":319.152,"endTime":324.457,"body":"These are vintage objects, vintage objects"},{"startTime":319.152,"endTime":324.457,"body":"from the eighties used for advertising,"},{"startTime":324.49,"endTime":328.127,"body":"like when people were marketing stuff"},{"startTime":324.49,"endTime":328.127,"body":"on their clothes back in the day."},{"startTime":328.227,"endTime":331.23,"body":"Yes, I'm now like a minotaur fanatic,"},{"startTime":331.297,"endTime":336.736,"body":"so get ready"},{"startTime":331.297,"endTime":336.736,"body":"for all the information I have learned."},{"startTime":336.836,"endTime":338.604,"body":"So I'm ready."},{"startTime":338.604,"endTime":340.34,"body":"So in the eighties and nineties,"},{"startTime":340.34,"endTime":344.177,"body":"in France, a decade before"},{"startTime":340.34,"endTime":344.177,"body":"the Internet was being used in the U.S.,"},{"startTime":344.177,"endTime":348.081,"body":"people were participating in chat rooms,"},{"startTime":344.177,"endTime":348.081,"body":"checking the news,"},{"startTime":348.314,"endTime":353.052,"body":"doing their banking and making purchases"},{"startTime":348.314,"endTime":353.052,"body":"on a network called Mini Tell."},{"startTime":353.119,"endTime":356.522,"body":"It was a video text service"},{"startTime":353.119,"endTime":356.522,"body":"that used telephone lines"},{"startTime":356.522,"endTime":360.66,"body":"and a small beige terminal box,"},{"startTime":356.522,"endTime":360.66,"body":"a precursor to the Internet."},{"startTime":360.66,"endTime":365.264,"body":"It was the most successful version of an"},{"startTime":360.66,"endTime":365.264,"body":"online service before the World Wide Web."},{"startTime":365.365,"endTime":369.769,"body":"While many countries had versions"},{"startTime":365.365,"endTime":369.769,"body":"of a teletext or video text network,"},{"startTime":369.869,"endTime":373.473,"body":"the Frenchman is now outgrew them all"},{"startTime":369.869,"endTime":373.473,"body":"to become the most successful video"},{"startTime":373.473,"endTime":377.91,"body":"text network ever,"},{"startTime":373.473,"endTime":377.91,"body":"while other similar networks struggled,"},{"startTime":378.111,"endTime":381.948,"body":"the specifics of the French network"},{"startTime":378.111,"endTime":381.948,"body":"meant that it became integrated"},{"startTime":381.948,"endTime":384.984,"body":"into everyday life"},{"startTime":381.948,"endTime":384.984,"body":"and even caused France to resist"},{"startTime":384.984,"endTime":387.987,"body":"the eventual adoption of the Internet."},{"startTime":388.121,"endTime":390.556,"body":"So that's my intro."},{"startTime":390.556,"endTime":395.928,"body":"Yeah, we are like a techno phobic"},{"startTime":390.556,"endTime":395.928,"body":"or a Luddite attitude"},{"startTime":395.928,"endTime":400.4,"body":"at the time that made people"},{"startTime":395.928,"endTime":400.4,"body":"not want to adopt the internet maybe,"},{"startTime":400.4,"endTime":405.004,"body":"and they kind of like stuck to minute"},{"startTime":400.4,"endTime":405.004,"body":"till with"},{"startTime":405.071,"endTime":407.907,"body":"more of like an emotional force"},{"startTime":405.071,"endTime":407.907,"body":"of like resistance"},{"startTime":407.907,"endTime":410.543,"body":"because they didn't want to adopt this"},{"startTime":410.543,"endTime":415.081,"body":"like new technocratic thing"},{"startTime":410.543,"endTime":415.081,"body":"that was the Internet from like the U.S."},{"startTime":415.081,"endTime":419.185,"body":"because, I mean, like France is,"},{"startTime":415.081,"endTime":419.185,"body":"you know, they're like"},{"startTime":419.252,"endTime":420.486,"body":"kind of known for their strikes."},{"startTime":420.486,"endTime":422.221,"body":"And they just came out of the,"},{"startTime":422.221,"endTime":426.526,"body":"I think, 1968 strike, which was like"},{"startTime":422.221,"endTime":426.526,"body":"the largest ever general strike."},{"startTime":426.526,"endTime":430.83,"body":"And, you know, workers"},{"startTime":426.526,"endTime":430.83,"body":"demanded better pay and conditions."},{"startTime":430.83,"endTime":435.902,"body":"And I wonder"},{"startTime":430.83,"endTime":435.902,"body":"if there was this Luddite attitude"},{"startTime":435.968,"endTime":440.807,"body":"because Luddites were essentially striking"},{"startTime":435.968,"endTime":440.807,"body":"against automation"},{"startTime":440.807,"endTime":446.345,"body":"and machine implementation"},{"startTime":440.807,"endTime":446.345,"body":"as like as part of like a workers union."},{"startTime":446.412,"endTime":449.415,"body":"I don't know, maybe that's like"},{"startTime":446.412,"endTime":449.415,"body":"a bigger question we can expand on later."},{"startTime":449.415,"endTime":451.951,"body":"But yeah, I wonder what the attitude was."},{"startTime":451.951,"endTime":453.152,"body":"Yeah, I mean, in terms of"},{"startTime":453.152,"endTime":457.056,"body":"do you mean in terms of like"},{"startTime":453.152,"endTime":457.056,"body":"resisting the, the internet when it came."},{"startTime":457.089,"endTime":458.357,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":458.357,"endTime":462.695,"body":"I think that it was more"},{"startTime":458.357,"endTime":462.695,"body":"that that minute hell was working so well"},{"startTime":462.762,"endTime":466.666,"body":"for them that when the internet first"},{"startTime":462.762,"endTime":466.666,"body":"was being introduced"},{"startTime":466.833,"endTime":469.769,"body":"it wasn't really offering anything,"},{"startTime":466.833,"endTime":469.769,"body":"anything new."},{"startTime":469.769,"endTime":472.772,"body":"And so there was like"},{"startTime":469.769,"endTime":472.772,"body":"a practicality thing."},{"startTime":472.805,"endTime":473.172,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":473.172,"endTime":476.576,"body":"Like why would they make this massive"},{"startTime":473.172,"endTime":476.576,"body":"switch over both"},{"startTime":476.642,"endTime":480.48,"body":"like governmentally,"},{"startTime":476.642,"endTime":480.48,"body":"but also just culturally"},{"startTime":480.546,"endTime":484.116,"body":"to this thing that firstly was not French"},{"startTime":484.183,"endTime":487.053,"body":"and also it was like more complicated."},{"startTime":487.053,"endTime":491.09,"body":"And the things that yeah,"},{"startTime":487.053,"endTime":491.09,"body":"the things it was offering"},{"startTime":491.19,"endTime":495.394,"body":"was at the time actually like"},{"startTime":491.19,"endTime":495.394,"body":"less than what you were able to do."},{"startTime":495.394,"endTime":497.43,"body":"I mean it's how"},{"startTime":497.497,"endTime":499.098,"body":"eventually this that changed."},{"startTime":499.098,"endTime":503.035,"body":"But yeah, I think at the start"},{"startTime":499.098,"endTime":503.035,"body":"that was my truth of it rather than yeah,"},{"startTime":503.069,"endTime":507.54,"body":"like resisting this sort of technological"},{"startTime":503.069,"endTime":507.54,"body":"resistance from the individual."},{"startTime":507.54,"endTime":508.641,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"startTime":508.641,"endTime":513.012,"body":"It wasn't seen as progress,"},{"startTime":508.641,"endTime":513.012,"body":"it was seen as just another option."},{"startTime":513.212,"endTime":518.084,"body":"So teletext and video text networks"},{"startTime":513.212,"endTime":518.084,"body":"similar, but they have a key difference."},{"startTime":518.184,"endTime":521.02,"body":"Teletext is one way communication."},{"startTime":521.02,"endTime":525.424,"body":"So it's used to receive information"},{"startTime":521.02,"endTime":525.424,"body":"and you would mostly see this as like on"},{"startTime":525.424,"endTime":529.061,"body":"screen text on TV monitors that provide"},{"startTime":529.061,"endTime":532.265,"body":"like news and weather information."},{"startTime":532.331,"endTime":535.268,"body":"But what you get with video text"},{"startTime":532.331,"endTime":535.268,"body":"which is what minute tell is"},{"startTime":535.268,"endTime":536.869,"body":"is two way communication."},{"startTime":536.869,"endTime":539.572,"body":"So the users could send messages back."},{"startTime":539.572,"endTime":542.275,"body":"They could interact"},{"startTime":539.572,"endTime":542.275,"body":"with what was happening on the screen."},{"startTime":542.275,"endTime":545.545,"body":"And this allowed for many type"},{"startTime":542.275,"endTime":545.545,"body":"like different types of applications"},{"startTime":545.545,"endTime":546.712,"body":"and services."},{"startTime":546.712,"endTime":550.917,"body":"The minute How Video Text System"},{"startTime":546.712,"endTime":550.917,"body":"was originally designed in 1978"},{"startTime":550.917,"endTime":555.021,"body":"as part of a governmental emphasis"},{"startTime":550.917,"endTime":555.021,"body":"on technological innovation,"},{"startTime":555.121,"endTime":558.09,"body":"I think to look back at your comment"},{"startTime":558.09,"endTime":562.662,"body":"about the general strike,"},{"startTime":558.09,"endTime":562.662,"body":"the 1968 general strike."},{"startTime":562.662,"endTime":564.797,"body":"So that was a decade before this."},{"startTime":564.797,"endTime":568.167,"body":"But I do think that there was perhaps"},{"startTime":568.167,"endTime":572.004,"body":"this feeling coming out of"},{"startTime":568.167,"endTime":572.004,"body":"that was like anti-U.S."},{"startTime":572.038,"endTime":577.143,"body":"maybe, or like I think at the time"},{"startTime":572.038,"endTime":577.143,"body":"it was sort of wrapped up in that strike."},{"startTime":577.343,"endTime":581.647,"body":"And the protest"},{"startTime":577.343,"endTime":581.647,"body":"was this kind of like like against what"},{"startTime":581.714,"endTime":584.35,"body":"the US was doing with the Vietnam War."},{"startTime":584.35,"endTime":588.955,"body":"So perhaps there is like a kind of a shift"},{"startTime":584.35,"endTime":588.955,"body":"or even just like"},{"startTime":589.021,"endTime":594.36,"body":"establishment of this kind of feeling"},{"startTime":589.021,"endTime":594.36,"body":"of wanting to be French"},{"startTime":594.36,"endTime":597.964,"body":"and not be relying on, say,"},{"startTime":594.36,"endTime":597.964,"body":"like American technology."},{"startTime":598.164,"endTime":601.634,"body":"Yeah. So back to 78 or forward to 78."},{"startTime":601.667,"endTime":605.605,"body":"The government was interested"},{"startTime":601.667,"endTime":605.605,"body":"in updating the current"},{"startTime":605.605,"endTime":609.342,"body":"telephone network in France"},{"startTime":605.605,"endTime":609.342,"body":"and was looking for ways to futureproof"},{"startTime":609.342,"endTime":613.245,"body":"and to create technological independence"},{"startTime":609.342,"endTime":613.245,"body":"as a country."},{"startTime":613.346,"endTime":615.915,"body":"So in the late seventies, France's"},{"startTime":613.346,"endTime":615.915,"body":"telephone network"},{"startTime":615.915,"endTime":619.619,"body":"had less than 7 million lines"},{"startTime":615.915,"endTime":619.619,"body":"for 47 million citizens."},{"startTime":619.685,"endTime":621.52,"body":"And also the telephone and computer"},{"startTime":621.52,"endTime":625.758,"body":"technology that was being used"},{"startTime":621.52,"endTime":625.758,"body":"was like starting to be dominated by U.S."},{"startTime":625.758,"endTime":627.193,"body":"companies."},{"startTime":627.193,"endTime":630.796,"body":"There was a report titled"},{"startTime":627.193,"endTime":630.796,"body":"The Computerization of Society,"},{"startTime":630.796,"endTime":633.399,"body":"and it outlined a plan"},{"startTime":630.796,"endTime":633.399,"body":"to extend the telephone"},{"startTime":633.399,"endTime":637.37,"body":"network to more users"},{"startTime":633.399,"endTime":637.37,"body":"and to update it for telematics,"},{"startTime":637.37,"endTime":642.008,"body":"which is a combination of the words"},{"startTime":637.37,"endTime":642.008,"body":"telecommunications and informatics."},{"startTime":642.008,"endTime":645.578,"body":"And in this case, that meant video"},{"startTime":642.008,"endTime":645.578,"body":"text technologies."},{"startTime":645.645,"endTime":648.547,"body":"This was in France. This was in France."},{"startTime":648.547,"endTime":652.251,"body":"It says that the report is titled"},{"startTime":648.547,"endTime":652.251,"body":"The Computerization of Society."},{"startTime":652.251,"endTime":655.621,"body":"But I imagine it was that But in French"},{"startTime":655.688,"endTime":657.39,"body":"yeah obviously these video"},{"startTime":657.39,"endTime":661.494,"body":"text systems"},{"startTime":657.39,"endTime":661.494,"body":"and how in the seventies and eighties"},{"startTime":661.56,"endTime":666.632,"body":"nations were investing"},{"startTime":661.56,"endTime":666.632,"body":"in, you know, digitalization"},{"startTime":666.632,"endTime":670.569,"body":"and kind of making their employed"},{"startTime":670.703,"endTime":674.006,"body":"generation quite literate and technology."},{"startTime":674.006,"endTime":677.843,"body":"And so you have things like in France,"},{"startTime":674.006,"endTime":677.843,"body":"the computerization of society, and then"},{"startTime":678.044,"endTime":681.914,"body":"in Japan, which is what we're going"},{"startTime":678.044,"endTime":681.914,"body":"to talk about in the future episode,"},{"startTime":682.014,"endTime":686.652,"body":"the information informatics size"},{"startTime":682.014,"endTime":686.652,"body":"Asian Society."},{"startTime":686.852,"endTime":689.855,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":686.852,"endTime":689.855,"body":"I think it's like Informatization, but"},{"startTime":690.022,"endTime":695.461,"body":"it comes from a a guy called Unit"},{"startTime":695.461,"endTime":699.432,"body":"XI Masuda and he looks like a sociologist."},{"startTime":699.432,"endTime":701.667,"body":"I think that he wrote a book"},{"startTime":699.432,"endTime":701.667,"body":"called The Information Society"},{"startTime":701.667,"endTime":706.605,"body":"as post-Industrial Society,"},{"startTime":701.667,"endTime":706.605,"body":"which we're going to look at later, but"},{"startTime":706.706,"endTime":709.341,"body":"essentially like a yeah,"},{"startTime":706.706,"endTime":709.341,"body":"a lot of countries"},{"startTime":709.341,"endTime":715.481,"body":"are looking at ways"},{"startTime":709.341,"endTime":715.481,"body":"to move away from focusing on"},{"startTime":715.581,"endTime":717.483,"body":"industrialization, their"},{"startTime":717.483,"endTime":721.32,"body":"economy"},{"startTime":717.483,"endTime":721.32,"body":"being based on on like manual labor"},{"startTime":721.32,"endTime":725.191,"body":"and like physical things,"},{"startTime":721.32,"endTime":725.191,"body":"moving into information"},{"startTime":725.191,"endTime":730.196,"body":"as the, like key grounding of of society."},{"startTime":730.262,"endTime":736.402,"body":"So by switching the telephone network"},{"startTime":730.262,"endTime":736.402,"body":"or like adding to the telephone network,"},{"startTime":736.402,"endTime":741.307,"body":"these video text technologies,"},{"startTime":736.402,"endTime":741.307,"body":"it would enable users to interact in text"},{"startTime":741.373,"endTime":745.077,"body":"using a terminal machine,"},{"startTime":741.373,"endTime":745.077,"body":"which is a simple computer"},{"startTime":745.144,"endTime":747.346,"body":"connected to the telephone lines."},{"startTime":747.346,"endTime":752.017,"body":"So you make a call, you dial in number,"},{"startTime":747.346,"endTime":752.017,"body":"but instead of connecting to a person"},{"startTime":752.151,"endTime":757.656,"body":"on the phone line,"},{"startTime":752.151,"endTime":757.656,"body":"you're connected to a text based site."},{"startTime":757.723,"endTime":759.692,"body":"And technically, teletype"},{"startTime":759.692,"endTime":763.362,"body":"was the name of the service"},{"startTime":759.692,"endTime":763.362,"body":"and Minato is the name of the terminal."},{"startTime":763.362,"endTime":767.933,"body":"But Minato soon took over as the main name"},{"startTime":763.362,"endTime":767.933,"body":"in popular use, and it was a brief"},{"startTime":768.0,"endTime":773.739,"body":"an abbreviation of with my horrible"},{"startTime":768.0,"endTime":773.739,"body":"French medium interactive power"},{"startTime":773.806,"endTime":779.678,"body":"noise ACR down from SCA telephonic"},{"startTime":779.745,"endTime":781.881,"body":"messaging."},{"startTime":781.881,"endTime":782.181,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":782.181,"endTime":787.486,"body":"I mean, so two things to note here,"},{"startTime":782.181,"endTime":787.486,"body":"I think that are"},{"startTime":787.586,"endTime":789.722,"body":"really fascinating to me personally"},{"startTime":789.722,"endTime":794.56,"body":"because the way that Minato worked"},{"startTime":794.66,"endTime":799.031,"body":"technically,"},{"startTime":794.66,"endTime":799.031,"body":"I think really explains what video text is"},{"startTime":799.265,"endTime":802.201,"body":"quite well, because it's basically"},{"startTime":799.265,"endTime":802.201,"body":"an information display"},{"startTime":802.201,"endTime":805.404,"body":"that connects a screen or like a TV"},{"startTime":805.471,"endTime":809.875,"body":"with data input hardware or a terminal"},{"startTime":805.471,"endTime":809.875,"body":"with like telephone wires."},{"startTime":809.875,"endTime":814.313,"body":"And I don't know, I just kind of love"},{"startTime":809.875,"endTime":814.313,"body":"the idea that I still work"},{"startTime":814.313,"endTime":818.284,"body":"with a terminal, like it's a it's"},{"startTime":814.313,"endTime":818.284,"body":"an actual app on my computer."},{"startTime":818.284,"endTime":823.989,"body":"And and that's just like an a space"},{"startTime":818.284,"endTime":823.989,"body":"where I can write commands."},{"startTime":824.056,"endTime":826.625,"body":"But I didn't know that"},{"startTime":824.056,"endTime":826.625,"body":"there was such a thing as like"},{"startTime":826.625,"endTime":829.628,"body":"a dumb terminal, which is just more of"},{"startTime":826.625,"endTime":829.628,"body":"like a vintage feature."},{"startTime":829.862,"endTime":831.897,"body":"I think that's really cool."},{"startTime":831.964,"endTime":833.999,"body":"Maybe I'll get one."},{"startTime":833.999,"endTime":838.137,"body":"I'm like, I get like a terminal"},{"startTime":833.999,"endTime":838.137,"body":"and have like my terminal app on it."},{"startTime":838.204,"endTime":839.171,"body":"They'll be cool."},{"startTime":839.171,"endTime":842.274,"body":"But yeah,"},{"startTime":839.171,"endTime":842.274,"body":"and then also the way that they used"},{"startTime":842.341,"endTime":846.178,"body":"the word medium in minutes"},{"startTime":842.341,"endTime":846.178,"body":"all is super interesting."},{"startTime":846.178,"endTime":851.65,"body":"Again, minute media,"},{"startTime":846.178,"endTime":851.65,"body":"even the word like Mini is so cute."},{"startTime":851.717,"endTime":854.553,"body":"Very cute. One mini hardware."},{"startTime":854.553,"endTime":855.054,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":855.054,"endTime":859.458,"body":"Just the the word medium is used"},{"startTime":859.558,"endTime":865.865,"body":"really well in the sense that there's just"},{"startTime":859.558,"endTime":865.865,"body":"this quite intriguing linguistic aspect."},{"startTime":865.865,"endTime":869.768,"body":"They really like made use of the word"},{"startTime":865.865,"endTime":869.768,"body":"because it describes it as a medium"},{"startTime":869.768,"endTime":871.27,"body":"rather than a tool or an object."},{"startTime":871.27,"endTime":875.274,"body":"And, you know,"},{"startTime":871.27,"endTime":875.274,"body":"I do a lot of art projects with people"},{"startTime":875.274,"endTime":880.98,"body":"and I always kind of start off by saying"},{"startTime":875.274,"endTime":880.98,"body":"that, like the Internet can be a medium"},{"startTime":880.98,"endTime":884.683,"body":"and you can use the features"},{"startTime":880.98,"endTime":884.683,"body":"and behaviors of the Internet as"},{"startTime":884.717,"endTime":887.386,"body":"a creative tool to make"},{"startTime":887.486,"endTime":888.153,"body":"anything."},{"startTime":888.153,"endTime":890.356,"body":"So the same way that you would use"},{"startTime":888.153,"endTime":890.356,"body":"like Clay"},{"startTime":890.356,"endTime":894.226,"body":"and my service class to make a badge,"},{"startTime":890.356,"endTime":894.226,"body":"you can use Internet"},{"startTime":894.226,"endTime":899.965,"body":"behaviors and digital communication"},{"startTime":894.226,"endTime":899.965,"body":"as a form of like creation."},{"startTime":900.032,"endTime":903.402,"body":"So that I think that's like"},{"startTime":900.032,"endTime":903.402,"body":"a really nice little"},{"startTime":903.502,"endTime":907.273,"body":"foreshadowing touch in miniature"},{"startTime":903.502,"endTime":907.273,"body":"in the way that the word is used."},{"startTime":907.339,"endTime":910.709,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think of that idea of like"},{"startTime":910.776,"endTime":914.313,"body":"what is a medium"},{"startTime":910.776,"endTime":914.313,"body":"and creative practice in a similar way."},{"startTime":914.313,"endTime":920.719,"body":"I think like I use historical stories"},{"startTime":914.313,"endTime":920.719,"body":"or events and things archives"},{"startTime":920.819,"endTime":923.088,"body":"as a medium in my practice"},{"startTime":923.088,"endTime":927.526,"body":"and you know,"},{"startTime":923.088,"endTime":927.526,"body":"how can you ethically like sort of rework"},{"startTime":927.526,"endTime":933.065,"body":"these things and mold stuff like clay"},{"startTime":927.526,"endTime":933.065,"body":"to turn it into sort of creative projects"},{"startTime":933.065,"endTime":937.069,"body":"or to say a certain thing"},{"startTime":933.065,"endTime":937.069,"body":"or to like highlight something?"},{"startTime":937.169,"endTime":941.04,"body":"I think it's quite a useful mindset"},{"startTime":937.169,"endTime":941.04,"body":"to like go"},{"startTime":941.206,"endTime":945.01,"body":"to particularly like research"},{"startTime":941.206,"endTime":945.01,"body":"based projects, like what is a medium"},{"startTime":945.01,"endTime":948.28,"body":"if you're not using"},{"startTime":945.01,"endTime":948.28,"body":"like a physical medium?"},{"startTime":948.48,"endTime":950.382,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's like,"},{"startTime":950.382,"endTime":953.919,"body":"you know, the number one thing that"},{"startTime":950.382,"endTime":953.919,"body":"they teach you in art school at university"},{"startTime":953.919,"endTime":957.656,"body":"is they give you the Five Ways"},{"startTime":953.919,"endTime":957.656,"body":"of Seeing by John Berger book."},{"startTime":957.823,"endTime":960.693,"body":"That's interesting as well,"},{"startTime":957.823,"endTime":960.693,"body":"that you use it in your research"},{"startTime":960.693,"endTime":964.063,"body":"in that way"},{"startTime":960.693,"endTime":964.063,"body":"because I guess you are like an artist."},{"startTime":964.163,"endTime":967.066,"body":"Researcher Yeah, that's me."},{"startTime":967.166,"endTime":969.635,"body":"So after a small child"},{"startTime":969.635,"endTime":973.572,"body":"period, Manitoba at National in 1982."},{"startTime":973.639,"endTime":976.208,"body":"So it began chiefly"},{"startTime":973.639,"endTime":976.208,"body":"as a national electronic"},{"startTime":976.208,"endTime":980.012,"body":"telephone"},{"startTime":976.208,"endTime":980.012,"body":"directory, replacing like the White Pages"},{"startTime":980.079,"endTime":983.649,"body":"because they had expanded the telephone"},{"startTime":980.079,"endTime":983.649,"body":"network as part of this plan."},{"startTime":983.649,"endTime":987.553,"body":"It was getting really expensive"},{"startTime":983.649,"endTime":987.553,"body":"to print like physically print"},{"startTime":987.553,"endTime":990.122,"body":"telephone directories every year."},{"startTime":990.122,"endTime":994.026,"body":"And they calculated that buying everybody"},{"startTime":990.122,"endTime":994.026,"body":"that was in the phone book"},{"startTime":994.026,"endTime":999.131,"body":"a hotel terminal"},{"startTime":994.026,"endTime":999.131,"body":"would actually be cheaper in the long run"},{"startTime":999.131,"endTime":1004.103,"body":"because they could produce"},{"startTime":999.131,"endTime":1004.103,"body":"a digital phone book rather than printing."},{"startTime":1004.169,"endTime":1006.538,"body":"So one of the main reasons that Manitoba"},{"startTime":1006.538,"endTime":1009.708,"body":"became so widely used"},{"startTime":1006.538,"endTime":1009.708,"body":"was that the terminal was provided"},{"startTime":1009.708,"endTime":1013.946,"body":"free to telephone subscribers"},{"startTime":1009.708,"endTime":1013.946,"body":"by the state run phone company."},{"startTime":1014.013,"endTime":1017.216,"body":"It was also incredibly simple"},{"startTime":1014.013,"endTime":1017.216,"body":"and easy to use."},{"startTime":1017.216,"endTime":1019.118,"body":"You could go to the post office,"},{"startTime":1019.118,"endTime":1022.855,"body":"pick up your main intel terminal for free,"},{"startTime":1019.118,"endTime":1022.855,"body":"and once you're home, plug it in."},{"startTime":1022.855,"endTime":1025.391,"body":"And it worked pretty much instantly."},{"startTime":1025.391,"endTime":1028.761,"body":"It looked vaguely like what"},{"startTime":1025.391,"endTime":1028.761,"body":"the early Macintosh computers would later"},{"startTime":1028.761,"endTime":1033.599,"body":"look like, a sort of small beige box"},{"startTime":1028.761,"endTime":1033.599,"body":"with a screen, a keyboard and item."},{"startTime":1033.766,"endTime":1035.601,"body":"Yeah, very eighties."},{"startTime":1035.601,"endTime":1036.869,"body":"But that's really boxy."},{"startTime":1036.869,"endTime":1040.672,"body":"You imagine just like picking up"},{"startTime":1036.869,"endTime":1040.672,"body":"your laptop from a post office."},{"startTime":1040.672,"endTime":1042.608,"body":"That's incredible."},{"startTime":1042.608,"endTime":1044.843,"body":"That's a terrible. I want that now."},{"startTime":1044.843,"endTime":1047.98,"body":"My laptop is struggling."},{"startTime":1044.843,"endTime":1047.98,"body":"I need a new laptop."},{"startTime":1048.08,"endTime":1048.881,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1048.881,"endTime":1052.584,"body":"So later they had like public terminals"},{"startTime":1052.651,"endTime":1056.121,"body":"available in the street"},{"startTime":1052.651,"endTime":1056.121,"body":"and then like the minute our system"},{"startTime":1056.188,"endTime":1060.192,"body":"could also later, like, run on different"},{"startTime":1056.188,"endTime":1060.192,"body":"sorts of terminals and computers"},{"startTime":1060.192,"endTime":1064.663,"body":"eventually some included credit card"},{"startTime":1060.192,"endTime":1064.663,"body":"readers, color displays, memory chips,"},{"startTime":1064.663,"endTime":1067.666,"body":"and even like connections to printers"},{"startTime":1064.663,"endTime":1067.666,"body":"and PCs."},{"startTime":1067.833,"endTime":1070.803,"body":"Though these upgraded terminals"},{"startTime":1067.833,"endTime":1070.803,"body":"had to be bought by the user"},{"startTime":1070.803,"endTime":1076.041,"body":"that the government the post office"},{"startTime":1070.803,"endTime":1076.041,"body":"just provided like supervised basic."},{"startTime":1076.108,"endTime":1080.212,"body":"Okay, so the system worked"},{"startTime":1076.108,"endTime":1080.212,"body":"by connecting the telephone network"},{"startTime":1080.212,"endTime":1083.882,"body":"with a packet switching"},{"startTime":1080.212,"endTime":1083.882,"body":"data network called Trans PAC."},{"startTime":1083.982,"endTime":1088.921,"body":"The advantage of this was that trans"},{"startTime":1083.982,"endTime":1088.921,"body":"fat charged for time, not distance,"},{"startTime":1088.987,"endTime":1092.591,"body":"and use the standard protocol"},{"startTime":1088.987,"endTime":1092.591,"body":"that made the system fairly cheap."},{"startTime":1092.691,"endTime":1097.129,"body":"The Unitel terminals were text"},{"startTime":1092.691,"endTime":1097.129,"body":"based and use both simple commands"},{"startTime":1097.129,"endTime":1101.9,"body":"and natural language interfaces"},{"startTime":1097.129,"endTime":1101.9,"body":"instead of the URLs of today."},{"startTime":1101.9,"endTime":1105.437,"body":"Users access sites"},{"startTime":1101.9,"endTime":1105.437,"body":"using short codes of letters and numbers,"},{"startTime":1105.437,"endTime":1108.44,"body":"usually starting with 3615, followed by"},{"startTime":1108.44,"endTime":1111.844,"body":"four letters 3611 was the phone directory"},{"startTime":1111.844,"endTime":1115.08,"body":"and was free of charge"},{"startTime":1111.844,"endTime":1115.08,"body":"for 3 minutes at a time."},{"startTime":1115.147,"endTime":1118.65,"body":"So you would dial a number"},{"startTime":1115.147,"endTime":1118.65,"body":"and it would connect you through the phone"},{"startTime":1118.65,"endTime":1123.155,"body":"line to a particular service"},{"startTime":1118.65,"endTime":1123.155,"body":"which functioned similarly to a website."},{"startTime":1123.322,"endTime":1124.356,"body":"Today."},{"startTime":1124.356,"endTime":1127.025,"body":"And the codes were advertised like URLs"},{"startTime":1127.025,"endTime":1132.397,"body":"now, so in advertising, on television,"},{"startTime":1127.025,"endTime":1132.397,"body":"print and public ads."},{"startTime":1132.498,"endTime":1135.501,"body":"So this kind of works really similarly"},{"startTime":1135.501,"endTime":1138.971,"body":"to how ports are being used in our URL."},{"startTime":1139.004,"endTime":1142.841,"body":"Like the first the first thing"},{"startTime":1139.004,"endTime":1142.841,"body":"that you have any URL, the like method"},{"startTime":1142.841,"endTime":1148.981,"body":"that the computer"},{"startTime":1142.841,"endTime":1148.981,"body":"receives, information like that h h t"},{"startTime":1149.081,"endTime":1154.486,"body":"h Is your hypertext transfer"},{"startTime":1149.081,"endTime":1154.486,"body":"something protocol code?"},{"startTime":1154.553,"endTime":1155.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1155.02,"endTime":1160.359,"body":"So it's not port, but port is like"},{"startTime":1155.02,"endTime":1160.359,"body":"the number alongside the IP address."},{"startTime":1160.359,"endTime":1164.763,"body":"So the Internet protocol address"},{"startTime":1160.359,"endTime":1164.763,"body":"that specifies like the destination"},{"startTime":1164.763,"endTime":1170.536,"body":"application of servers running on that"},{"startTime":1164.763,"endTime":1170.536,"body":"host computer and it's always four digits."},{"startTime":1170.602,"endTime":1173.972,"body":"So that's why it reminded me"},{"startTime":1170.602,"endTime":1173.972,"body":"of the 3615 code"},{"startTime":1173.972,"endTime":1179.311,"body":"and it's kind of establishing"},{"startTime":1173.972,"endTime":1179.311,"body":"what exactly it's listening to."},{"startTime":1179.411,"endTime":1182.881,"body":"And in this way, that's also another"},{"startTime":1182.881,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"funny kind of linguistic connection"},{"startTime":1182.881,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"that we're making here because"},{"startTime":1188.487,"endTime":1193.025,"body":"this was also produced"},{"startTime":1188.487,"endTime":1193.025,"body":"from a lot of telephony, hardware"},{"startTime":1193.025,"endTime":1196.195,"body":"and technology, and now it's"},{"startTime":1196.195,"endTime":1199.698,"body":"still kind of listening"},{"startTime":1196.195,"endTime":1199.698,"body":"in the same sort of way."},{"startTime":1199.698,"endTime":1201.733,"body":"But now you have like"},{"startTime":1201.8,"endTime":1204.169,"body":"65,000 different ports and"},{"startTime":1204.169,"endTime":1209.041,"body":"you have like port 20 and 21,"},{"startTime":1204.169,"endTime":1209.041,"body":"which is like for file transfer protocol,"},{"startTime":1209.107,"endTime":1212.811,"body":"you have 22 for remote log"},{"startTime":1212.811,"endTime":1216.848,"body":"in, you have 53 for like domain name"},{"startTime":1212.811,"endTime":1216.848,"body":"systems."},{"startTime":1216.848,"endTime":1219.851,"body":"You have 80 for hypertext"},{"startTime":1216.848,"endTime":1219.851,"body":"transfer protocol,"},{"startTime":1220.018,"endTime":1222.888,"body":"and then you have like one for three"},{"startTime":1220.018,"endTime":1222.888,"body":"for email and messaging."},{"startTime":1222.888,"endTime":1227.526,"body":"And this especially used a lot"},{"startTime":1222.888,"endTime":1227.526,"body":"when you're developing"},{"startTime":1227.626,"endTime":1230.128,"body":"software"},{"startTime":1227.626,"endTime":1230.128,"body":"and you're working from your terminal"},{"startTime":1230.128,"endTime":1232.598,"body":"and then you write in a command"},{"startTime":1230.128,"endTime":1232.598,"body":"with your port"},{"startTime":1232.598,"endTime":1235.934,"body":"and then it shows up in your browser"},{"startTime":1232.598,"endTime":1235.934,"body":"and you just write in that port."},{"startTime":1236.001,"endTime":1240.539,"body":"So super funny"},{"startTime":1236.001,"endTime":1240.539,"body":"how there's that little connection there."},{"startTime":1240.772,"endTime":1241.139,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1241.139,"endTime":1244.042,"body":"And then later"},{"startTime":1241.139,"endTime":1244.042,"body":"I'll mention this later in this episode."},{"startTime":1244.042,"endTime":1248.981,"body":"But there were other so like this is 3615"},{"startTime":1244.042,"endTime":1248.981,"body":"and 3611 was the phone directory."},{"startTime":1248.981,"endTime":1252.017,"body":"But later there were other options"},{"startTime":1252.017,"endTime":1255.32,"body":"that gave some different pricing levels."},{"startTime":1255.32,"endTime":1257.689,"body":"So you could tell like how much"},{"startTime":1255.32,"endTime":1257.689,"body":"it was going to cost"},{"startTime":1257.689,"endTime":1263.528,"body":"to access the site"},{"startTime":1257.689,"endTime":1263.528,"body":"by what that first four digit number was."},{"startTime":1263.629,"endTime":1264.963,"body":"So while"},{"startTime":1264.963,"endTime":1268.066,"body":"the infrastructure of MINUSTAH"},{"startTime":1264.963,"endTime":1268.066,"body":"was run by the government"},{"startTime":1268.066,"endTime":1272.938,"body":"originally the TGT,"},{"startTime":1268.066,"endTime":1272.938,"body":"the telecommunication branch of the post"},{"startTime":1273.005,"endTime":1276.908,"body":"Telegraph and telephone,"},{"startTime":1273.005,"endTime":1276.908,"body":"which later became France Telecom,"},{"startTime":1277.009,"endTime":1282.614,"body":"the services which users could access"},{"startTime":1277.009,"endTime":1282.614,"body":"were largely run by private companies."},{"startTime":1282.681,"endTime":1286.518,"body":"However, because private servers couldn't"},{"startTime":1282.681,"endTime":1286.518,"body":"connect to each other,"},{"startTime":1286.518,"endTime":1289.788,"body":"it had to go through the centralized"},{"startTime":1286.518,"endTime":1289.788,"body":"public data network."},{"startTime":1290.022,"endTime":1293.058,"body":"So each host had to be approved"},{"startTime":1290.022,"endTime":1293.058,"body":"and registered by the state."},{"startTime":1293.058,"endTime":1297.462,"body":"So is this real like combination of public"},{"startTime":1293.058,"endTime":1297.462,"body":"and private enterprise?"},{"startTime":1297.562,"endTime":1301.033,"body":"And while only this house started"},{"startTime":1297.562,"endTime":1301.033,"body":"as an electronic phone book, it soon"},{"startTime":1301.033,"endTime":1306.038,"body":"expanded to include many private services,"},{"startTime":1301.033,"endTime":1306.038,"body":"including ones with virtual communities."},{"startTime":1306.138,"endTime":1310.375,"body":"In 1983,"},{"startTime":1306.138,"endTime":1310.375,"body":"there were 145 services available,"},{"startTime":1310.375,"endTime":1313.912,"body":"which reached more than 20,000 by 1993."},{"startTime":1314.046,"endTime":1317.282,"body":"Ten years later, that's incredible growth."},{"startTime":1317.349,"endTime":1320.085,"body":"I mean, those those stats,"},{"startTime":1320.085,"endTime":1323.088,"body":"those numbers,"},{"startTime":1320.085,"endTime":1323.088,"body":"they look good for business."},{"startTime":1323.155,"endTime":1327.292,"body":"Oh, my money's going to tell you"},{"startTime":1323.155,"endTime":1327.292,"body":"I want to invest right now."},{"startTime":1327.359,"endTime":1330.295,"body":"Get me some of those things"},{"startTime":1330.362,"endTime":1333.065,"body":"so users can send direct messages."},{"startTime":1333.065,"endTime":1337.002,"body":"They could check the news, check stock"},{"startTime":1333.065,"endTime":1337.002,"body":"prices, talk and chat rooms, play"},{"startTime":1337.002,"endTime":1342.441,"body":"multiplayer games, log shop for groceries,"},{"startTime":1337.002,"endTime":1342.441,"body":"remotely control home appliances,"},{"startTime":1342.674,"endTime":1346.778,"body":"access banking services, check"},{"startTime":1342.674,"endTime":1346.778,"body":"the weather, make travel reservations,"},{"startTime":1346.778,"endTime":1347.813,"body":"books, Cinema tickets,"},{"startTime":1347.813,"endTime":1352.551,"body":"apply to university check exam"},{"startTime":1347.813,"endTime":1352.551,"body":"results and access state services."},{"startTime":1352.617,"endTime":1356.722,"body":"It also had versions of Siri"},{"startTime":1352.617,"endTime":1356.722,"body":"and Alexa called Claire and Sophie,"},{"startTime":1356.722,"endTime":1360.292,"body":"which could enact"},{"startTime":1356.722,"endTime":1360.292,"body":"natural language commands."},{"startTime":1360.359,"endTime":1364.963,"body":"So they were they weren't"},{"startTime":1360.359,"endTime":1364.963,"body":"even really using this for work"},{"startTime":1364.963,"endTime":1369.501,"body":"that much like they were using this"},{"startTime":1364.963,"endTime":1369.501,"body":"for leisure and to socialize."},{"startTime":1369.501,"endTime":1374.339,"body":"And it was kind of a part of the everyday,"},{"startTime":1369.501,"endTime":1374.339,"body":"but like not necessarily for"},{"startTime":1374.473,"endTime":1376.708,"body":"for bureaucracy or financialization,"},{"startTime":1376.708,"endTime":1380.445,"body":"like it was used for entertainment,"},{"startTime":1376.708,"endTime":1380.445,"body":"which is really great."},{"startTime":1380.579,"endTime":1380.912,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1380.912,"endTime":1384.783,"body":"I mean, I think it probably replaced"},{"startTime":1380.912,"endTime":1384.783,"body":"more sort of the"},{"startTime":1384.883,"endTime":1389.454,"body":"the things that you"},{"startTime":1384.883,"endTime":1389.454,"body":"the errands that you would run, the"},{"startTime":1389.521,"endTime":1393.658,"body":"like that you had to make the phone call"},{"startTime":1389.521,"endTime":1393.658,"body":"or go to the train station"},{"startTime":1393.658,"endTime":1399.331,"body":"or like it was a way to get information,"},{"startTime":1393.658,"endTime":1399.331,"body":"but then also to like book a ticket."},{"startTime":1399.364,"endTime":1400.432,"body":"You could just do that."},{"startTime":1400.432,"endTime":1403.268,"body":"And then there was this whole other side,"},{"startTime":1400.432,"endTime":1403.268,"body":"which was the,"},{"startTime":1403.268,"endTime":1405.103,"body":"yeah, the leisure entertainment side."},{"startTime":1405.103,"endTime":1410.142,"body":"And you could talk"},{"startTime":1405.103,"endTime":1410.142,"body":"to sexy women voices on the"},{"startTime":1410.242,"endTime":1412.744,"body":"call like Claire and Sophie, right?"},{"startTime":1412.744,"endTime":1415.68,"body":"Sophie I mean, it's not like listening"},{"startTime":1412.744,"endTime":1415.68,"body":"to the voices."},{"startTime":1415.68,"endTime":1417.682,"body":"It would be like text."},{"startTime":1417.682,"endTime":1420.352,"body":"Oh, right. Okay. Text based, but."},{"startTime":1420.352,"endTime":1423.221,"body":"But they sexy came out"},{"startTime":1423.221,"endTime":1425.223,"body":"writing."},{"startTime":1425.223,"endTime":1425.557,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1425.557,"endTime":1429.528,"body":"That's so funny"},{"startTime":1425.557,"endTime":1429.528,"body":"that these digital assistants"},{"startTime":1429.594,"endTime":1431.53,"body":"had, like, female names."},{"startTime":1431.53,"endTime":1436.835,"body":"You still have the classic female"},{"startTime":1431.53,"endTime":1436.835,"body":"receptionist represented in technology."},{"startTime":1436.935,"endTime":1441.54,"body":"So it was also must have been a time"},{"startTime":1436.935,"endTime":1441.54,"body":"where women were included"},{"startTime":1441.54,"endTime":1445.177,"body":"more in the workforce"},{"startTime":1441.54,"endTime":1445.177,"body":"and they were still kind of"},{"startTime":1445.377,"endTime":1449.915,"body":"having their roles being like established"},{"startTime":1445.377,"endTime":1449.915,"body":"in these workspaces."},{"startTime":1449.915,"endTime":1452.918,"body":"And you would have these very gendered"},{"startTime":1453.118,"endTime":1458.457,"body":"roles come up like the assistant"},{"startTime":1453.118,"endTime":1458.457,"body":"or the nurse or the receptionist and"},{"startTime":1458.523,"endTime":1461.092,"body":"always kind of like the helper"},{"startTime":1458.523,"endTime":1461.092,"body":"or like the care."},{"startTime":1461.092,"endTime":1465.464,"body":"Yeah, and like it is still happening now."},{"startTime":1465.53,"endTime":1469.801,"body":"So and even though maybe,"},{"startTime":1465.53,"endTime":1469.801,"body":"I mean, maybe Alexa, but Siri,"},{"startTime":1469.968,"endTime":1474.473,"body":"you know, the normally like"},{"startTime":1469.968,"endTime":1474.473,"body":"standard is a female sounding voice,"},{"startTime":1474.706,"endTime":1479.11,"body":"but like maybe the names"},{"startTime":1474.706,"endTime":1479.11,"body":"of becoming a little more futuristic or."},{"startTime":1479.211,"endTime":1484.216,"body":"It's so obvious, though, isn't it,"},{"startTime":1479.211,"endTime":1484.216,"body":"Because you're literally like coding"},{"startTime":1484.282,"endTime":1488.253,"body":"like female gender into these technologies"},{"startTime":1484.282,"endTime":1488.253,"body":"and then once they become annoying"},{"startTime":1488.253,"endTime":1490.355,"body":"or once"},{"startTime":1488.253,"endTime":1490.355,"body":"they become part of your everyday life"},{"startTime":1490.355,"endTime":1494.926,"body":"and you can it's so easy"},{"startTime":1490.355,"endTime":1494.926,"body":"to like blame things on these technologies"},{"startTime":1494.926,"endTime":1498.997,"body":"and like there's this really common"},{"startTime":1494.926,"endTime":1498.997,"body":"trend of like"},{"startTime":1499.097,"endTime":1503.802,"body":"supermarkets employing female voiced"},{"startTime":1503.902,"endTime":1508.94,"body":"self checkout machines into their systems"},{"startTime":1503.902,"endTime":1508.94,"body":"and there's all the users"},{"startTime":1508.94,"endTime":1511.943,"body":"and all the people that go to the shopping"},{"startTime":1508.94,"endTime":1511.943,"body":"to do their shopping."},{"startTime":1512.01,"endTime":1516.548,"body":"They like complain about how loud they are"},{"startTime":1512.01,"endTime":1516.548,"body":"and the always like telling them"},{"startTime":1516.548,"endTime":1522.42,"body":"what to do and then they just like switch"},{"startTime":1516.548,"endTime":1522.42,"body":"it to the male voice and then the like."},{"startTime":1522.487,"endTime":1527.492,"body":"Complaints decrease"},{"startTime":1522.487,"endTime":1527.492,"body":"and so you can see how just like"},{"startTime":1527.592,"endTime":1531.663,"body":"sexism and misogyny"},{"startTime":1527.592,"endTime":1531.663,"body":"is completely exacerbated in these"},{"startTime":1531.73,"endTime":1536.468,"body":"technologies and by gendering them in"},{"startTime":1531.73,"endTime":1536.468,"body":"the first place is just really stupid."},{"startTime":1536.568,"endTime":1540.338,"body":"Yeah, there's actually another element"},{"startTime":1536.568,"endTime":1540.338,"body":"of that with Mattel"},{"startTime":1540.438,"endTime":1541.406,"body":"that we'll get to later"},{"startTime":1541.406,"endTime":1543.975,"body":"and that we're actually going to explore"},{"startTime":1541.406,"endTime":1543.975,"body":"in our next episode."},{"startTime":1543.975,"endTime":1548.213,"body":"But yeah, e-tailers as old as time."},{"startTime":1548.28,"endTime":1549.214,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1549.214,"endTime":1554.753,"body":"So originally traditional media"},{"startTime":1549.214,"endTime":1554.753,"body":"outlets were suspicious of this"},{"startTime":1554.753,"endTime":1559.291,"body":"like new video text technology,"},{"startTime":1554.753,"endTime":1559.291,"body":"but they later formed partnerships."},{"startTime":1559.291,"endTime":1563.562,"body":"The government ensured that new sites"},{"startTime":1559.291,"endTime":1563.562,"body":"on the main hotel system were regulated,"},{"startTime":1563.562,"endTime":1568.033,"body":"so news outlets had to prove"},{"startTime":1563.562,"endTime":1568.033,"body":"that they also ran a print publication."},{"startTime":1568.133,"endTime":1571.736,"body":"So like digital only news outlets"},{"startTime":1568.133,"endTime":1571.736,"body":"like new ones that had"},{"startTime":1571.736,"endTime":1574.172,"body":"popped up to take advantage"},{"startTime":1574.272,"endTime":1576.708,"body":"weren't"},{"startTime":1574.272,"endTime":1576.708,"body":"allowed, which hopefully would ensure"},{"startTime":1576.708,"endTime":1579.978,"body":"that traditional print publications"},{"startTime":1576.708,"endTime":1579.978,"body":"wouldn't lose readers."},{"startTime":1580.045,"endTime":1584.749,"body":"But companies circumvented this"},{"startTime":1580.045,"endTime":1584.749,"body":"by printing fake newspapers,"},{"startTime":1584.749,"endTime":1588.486,"body":"just like one edition and then stopping"},{"startTime":1584.749,"endTime":1588.486,"body":"publishing once they were approved."},{"startTime":1588.587,"endTime":1591.756,"body":"And this was known collectively"},{"startTime":1588.587,"endTime":1591.756,"body":"as the Ghost Press."},{"startTime":1591.957,"endTime":1592.958,"body":"I like that name."},{"startTime":1592.958,"endTime":1595.727,"body":"It reminds me of the like ghost kitchens"},{"startTime":1595.727,"endTime":1599.931,"body":"from that"},{"startTime":1595.727,"endTime":1599.931,"body":"I like on ubereats and and delivery apps."},{"startTime":1600.065,"endTime":1604.135,"body":"Well, those apps were like"},{"startTime":1600.065,"endTime":1604.135,"body":"originally made for business."},{"startTime":1604.135,"endTime":1606.571,"body":"I helping that owner"},{"startTime":1606.571,"endTime":1608.64,"body":"to facilitate delivery"},{"startTime":1608.64,"endTime":1613.078,"body":"from like physical existing restaurants."},{"startTime":1613.078,"endTime":1615.647,"body":"And then like over the years"},{"startTime":1615.647,"endTime":1620.051,"body":"there's been these like ghost kitchens"},{"startTime":1615.647,"endTime":1620.051,"body":"or restaurants that have popped up"},{"startTime":1620.051,"endTime":1623.622,"body":"whose whole purpose is"},{"startTime":1623.722,"endTime":1626.691,"body":"to deliver meals on these apps."},{"startTime":1626.891,"endTime":1630.662,"body":"And so it's like not a, not a restaurant"},{"startTime":1626.891,"endTime":1630.662,"body":"that you can go to, and there'll be"},{"startTime":1630.662,"endTime":1636.234,"body":"like one kitchen for multiple different"},{"startTime":1630.662,"endTime":1636.234,"body":"like branding of restaurants on the app."},{"startTime":1636.434,"endTime":1636.801,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1636.801,"endTime":1640.772,"body":"So in a similar way that there were yeah,"},{"startTime":1636.801,"endTime":1640.772,"body":"there were these newspapers and news"},{"startTime":1640.772,"endTime":1645.71,"body":"media outlets that, that popped up"},{"startTime":1640.772,"endTime":1645.71,"body":"that existed solely on me to tell."},{"startTime":1645.877,"endTime":1649.28,"body":"So what worked really well"},{"startTime":1645.877,"endTime":1649.28,"body":"for the companies which hosted services"},{"startTime":1649.28,"endTime":1653.918,"body":"online to tell and for"},{"startTime":1649.28,"endTime":1653.918,"body":"the users was the simple billing system."},{"startTime":1654.019,"endTime":1657.188,"body":"This system allowed for e-commerce"},{"startTime":1654.019,"endTime":1657.188,"body":"to become incredibly popular"},{"startTime":1657.188,"endTime":1662.961,"body":"and integrated into everyday life a decade"},{"startTime":1657.188,"endTime":1662.961,"body":"before it would start on the internet."},{"startTime":1663.028,"endTime":1664.162,"body":"Users were billed per"},{"startTime":1664.162,"endTime":1667.999,"body":"minute of use plus for specific purchases."},{"startTime":1668.066,"endTime":1670.635,"body":"These were billed through their monthly"},{"startTime":1668.066,"endTime":1670.635,"body":"phone bill."},{"startTime":1670.635,"endTime":1675.607,"body":"In 1988, users"},{"startTime":1670.635,"endTime":1675.607,"body":"were spending about equivalent US ten U.S."},{"startTime":1675.607,"endTime":1677.342,"body":"dollars per hour."},{"startTime":1677.342,"endTime":1681.112,"body":"The revenue was split between"},{"startTime":1677.342,"endTime":1681.112,"body":"France Telecom, who took about a third,"},{"startTime":1681.112,"endTime":1684.816,"body":"and the operators of the service"},{"startTime":1681.112,"endTime":1684.816,"body":"that the person was paying for."},{"startTime":1684.916,"endTime":1686.351,"body":"This meant that service providers"},{"startTime":1686.351,"endTime":1690.021,"body":"didn't need to have billing systems"},{"startTime":1686.351,"endTime":1690.021,"body":"built into their own sites."},{"startTime":1690.088,"endTime":1693.091,"body":"It was all handled by the phone company"},{"startTime":1693.191,"endTime":1698.363,"body":"in 1984, the billing system"},{"startTime":1693.191,"endTime":1698.363,"body":"evolved to the kiosk multimedia."},{"startTime":1698.43,"endTime":1702.367,"body":"This was named for like the straight news"},{"startTime":1698.43,"endTime":1702.367,"body":"stands in Paris,"},{"startTime":1702.467,"endTime":1706.237,"body":"and so now eight levels of pricing"},{"startTime":1702.467,"endTime":1706.237,"body":"were available to service providers"},{"startTime":1706.237,"endTime":1711.109,"body":"and these were indicated to the users"},{"startTime":1706.237,"endTime":1711.109,"body":"through different starting code numbers."},{"startTime":1711.176,"endTime":1714.379,"body":"And I sort of"},{"startTime":1711.176,"endTime":1714.379,"body":"think in many ways at the minute"},{"startTime":1714.379,"endTime":1718.249,"body":"how kiosks could be seen"},{"startTime":1714.379,"endTime":1718.249,"body":"as like an early version of the App Store"},{"startTime":1718.316,"endTime":1723.722,"body":"that like you could it was this like"},{"startTime":1718.316,"endTime":1723.722,"body":"centralized billing system"},{"startTime":1723.822,"endTime":1726.725,"body":"that had these different services"},{"startTime":1723.822,"endTime":1726.725,"body":"that you could access,"},{"startTime":1726.725,"endTime":1729.627,"body":"but it was all anonymous"},{"startTime":1729.627,"endTime":1733.164,"body":"and the service just would appear"},{"startTime":1729.627,"endTime":1733.164,"body":"like the bill"},{"startTime":1733.164,"endTime":1736.534,"body":"would just appear simply as minutes"},{"startTime":1733.164,"endTime":1736.534,"body":"of time on the user's phone bill."},{"startTime":1736.534,"endTime":1740.638,"body":"It didn't like have a listing"},{"startTime":1736.534,"endTime":1740.638,"body":"of what they did in that time."},{"startTime":1740.705,"endTime":1744.743,"body":"And this anonymity was a really big draw"},{"startTime":1740.705,"endTime":1744.743,"body":"of minutes and a large part"},{"startTime":1744.743,"endTime":1749.581,"body":"of like the cultural understanding of it"},{"startTime":1744.743,"endTime":1749.581,"body":"and was quite protected."},{"startTime":1749.681,"endTime":1751.883,"body":"So there was a tracking"},{"startTime":1749.681,"endTime":1751.883,"body":"of how much time you spent."},{"startTime":1751.883,"endTime":1752.217,"body":"I mean, it's"},{"startTime":1752.217,"endTime":1757.255,"body":"how generally, but the content providers"},{"startTime":1752.217,"endTime":1757.255,"body":"didn't know who was using their services."},{"startTime":1757.322,"endTime":1759.591,"body":"There was no names or credit"},{"startTime":1757.322,"endTime":1759.591,"body":"cards required."},{"startTime":1759.591,"endTime":1761.659,"body":"And then the bills that came"},{"startTime":1759.591,"endTime":1761.659,"body":"with the phone bill"},{"startTime":1761.659,"endTime":1765.964,"body":"didn't disclose the services access,"},{"startTime":1761.659,"endTime":1765.964,"body":"just the lump sum per billing cycle."},{"startTime":1766.064,"endTime":1768.566,"body":"So if you're working like with minutes"},{"startTime":1766.064,"endTime":1768.566,"body":"before your job,"},{"startTime":1768.566,"endTime":1771.87,"body":"if you like doing, I don't know, research,"},{"startTime":1771.936,"endTime":1775.707,"body":"you could kind of Skype off in a chat room"},{"startTime":1771.936,"endTime":1775.707,"body":"and no one would actually know"},{"startTime":1775.774,"endTime":1776.908,"body":"from the bill."},{"startTime":1776.908,"endTime":1779.344,"body":"Same way that like the App Store"},{"startTime":1776.908,"endTime":1779.344,"body":"isn't an actual story."},{"startTime":1779.344,"endTime":1781.146,"body":"Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yep."},{"startTime":1781.146,"endTime":1786.117,"body":"The anonymity also meant that placing"},{"startTime":1781.146,"endTime":1786.117,"body":"lonely hearts, personal ads and accessing"},{"startTime":1786.117,"endTime":1791.456,"body":"versions of online porn and risque"},{"startTime":1786.117,"endTime":1791.456,"body":"chat rooms became really popular."},{"startTime":1791.523,"endTime":1795.126,"body":"These adult oriented services"},{"startTime":1791.523,"endTime":1795.126,"body":"were known as Mr."},{"startTime":1795.226,"endTime":1797.095,"body":"or saying Mr."},{"startTime":1797.095,"endTime":1800.732,"body":"Shapiro's say or minute"},{"startTime":1800.732,"endTime":1804.235,"body":"hell rose or Pink in this whole"},{"startTime":1804.302,"endTime":1807.839,"body":"sort of like the Minato red light district"},{"startTime":1807.972,"endTime":1811.776,"body":"nice And the governor was like"},{"startTime":1807.972,"endTime":1811.776,"body":"a bit embarrassed, quite embarrassed"},{"startTime":1811.81,"endTime":1815.046,"body":"by how popular"},{"startTime":1811.81,"endTime":1815.046,"body":"this element of them in his health system"},{"startTime":1815.046,"endTime":1819.05,"body":"became, particularly"},{"startTime":1815.046,"endTime":1819.05,"body":"because heavy traffic from initial rose"},{"startTime":1819.05,"endTime":1825.323,"body":"cause like an epic system crash in in 85"},{"startTime":1819.05,"endTime":1825.323,"body":"plus like multiple other system crashes."},{"startTime":1825.39,"endTime":1829.16,"body":"So in these sexy chat rooms"},{"startTime":1825.39,"endTime":1829.16,"body":"men would write to their dates"},{"startTime":1829.16,"endTime":1832.43,"body":"which were more often than not,"},{"startTime":1829.16,"endTime":1832.43,"body":"men posing as women"},{"startTime":1832.43,"endTime":1836.768,"body":"in versions of call centers"},{"startTime":1832.43,"endTime":1836.768,"body":"known as animate trees."},{"startTime":1836.868,"endTime":1840.738,"body":"These workers were sometimes paid in"},{"startTime":1836.868,"endTime":1840.738,"body":"money, but some were also paid in minutes."},{"startTime":1840.738,"endTime":1844.642,"body":"How connection"},{"startTime":1840.738,"endTime":1844.642,"body":"time and later bots were created"},{"startTime":1844.642,"endTime":1848.78,"body":"and also like software on connected PCs"},{"startTime":1844.642,"endTime":1848.78,"body":"that would allow them to talk"},{"startTime":1848.78,"endTime":1855.453,"body":"to multiple people at the one"},{"startTime":1848.78,"endTime":1855.453,"body":"at one time like Clear and Sophie."},{"startTime":1855.553,"endTime":1858.122,"body":"Well, Claire and Sophie are."},{"startTime":1858.122,"endTime":1858.423,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1858.423,"endTime":1859.991,"body":"And that was like then you."},{"startTime":1859.991,"endTime":1864.429,"body":"No, I think it's that like they are"},{"startTime":1859.991,"endTime":1864.429,"body":"but Right but like"},{"startTime":1864.529,"endTime":1869.767,"body":"I think that with this site Pink minis,"},{"startTime":1864.529,"endTime":1869.767,"body":"how many how was it."},{"startTime":1869.868,"endTime":1874.572,"body":"It wasn't clear if who you were talking"},{"startTime":1869.868,"endTime":1874.572,"body":"to was a real person or,"},{"startTime":1874.672,"endTime":1875.974,"body":"or a but it was known"},{"startTime":1875.974,"endTime":1879.744,"body":"that this was a thing that was happening"},{"startTime":1875.974,"endTime":1879.744,"body":"also, like people posing"},{"startTime":1879.744,"endTime":1885.116,"body":"as like other people to either like change"},{"startTime":1879.744,"endTime":1885.116,"body":"it changing agenda or"},{"startTime":1885.35,"endTime":1888.92,"body":"or just like personality,"},{"startTime":1885.35,"endTime":1888.92,"body":"like you're just working."},{"startTime":1889.02,"endTime":1891.823,"body":"You're not you're not a real sexy lady."},{"startTime":1891.823,"endTime":1893.024,"body":"That's like it."},{"startTime":1893.024,"endTime":1895.727,"body":"Sexy ladies in your neighborhood, it's"},{"startTime":1895.727,"endTime":1897.528,"body":"playing a part and you're getting paid,"},{"startTime":1895.727,"endTime":1897.528,"body":"you know?"},{"startTime":1897.528,"endTime":1901.232,"body":"Yeah, I guess that's also something"},{"startTime":1897.528,"endTime":1901.232,"body":"we'll look more into in the bonus"},{"startTime":1901.232,"endTime":1901.966,"body":"episode, right?"},{"startTime":1901.966,"endTime":1904.535,"body":"Yes, we will."},{"startTime":1904.535,"endTime":1905.97,"body":"That's an exciting episode."},{"startTime":1905.97,"endTime":1909.841,"body":"And yeah, was the government"},{"startTime":1905.97,"endTime":1909.841,"body":"just embarrassed"},{"startTime":1909.841,"endTime":1913.011,"body":"by this"},{"startTime":1909.841,"endTime":1913.011,"body":"or was was sex work decriminalized?"},{"startTime":1913.011,"endTime":1917.815,"body":"Like was it legal to do these things"},{"startTime":1913.011,"endTime":1917.815,"body":"or did they try and like, show us?"},{"startTime":1917.882,"endTime":1920.018,"body":"Yeah, I don't have my research for that."},{"startTime":1920.018,"endTime":1922.687,"body":"This is all from my brain. But"},{"startTime":1922.787,"endTime":1924.155,"body":"essentially I think it"},{"startTime":1924.155,"endTime":1928.293,"body":"was that like this"},{"startTime":1924.155,"endTime":1928.293,"body":"technically wasn't sex work"},{"startTime":1928.359,"endTime":1930.495,"body":"and it wasn't illegal."},{"startTime":1930.495,"endTime":1935.466,"body":"But then also like at the time, you know,"},{"startTime":1930.495,"endTime":1935.466,"body":"what is what is digital sex work like?"},{"startTime":1935.466,"endTime":1938.703,"body":"What is this sex like? Exactly."},{"startTime":1938.803,"endTime":1941.339,"body":"And things that were just becoming"},{"startTime":1938.803,"endTime":1941.339,"body":"established."},{"startTime":1941.339,"endTime":1947.111,"body":"There was a real separation between like"},{"startTime":1941.339,"endTime":1947.111,"body":"physical sex workers and this sort of like"},{"startTime":1947.211,"endTime":1950.281,"body":"digital labor sex work that was happening."},{"startTime":1950.281,"endTime":1955.987,"body":"And basically sex workers"},{"startTime":1950.281,"endTime":1955.987,"body":"like physical sex workers were not allowed"},{"startTime":1956.22,"endTime":1961.292,"body":"or they were pushed out of"},{"startTime":1956.22,"endTime":1961.292,"body":"of trying to work in these digital spaces"},{"startTime":1961.392,"endTime":1963.995,"body":"largely by the companies"},{"startTime":1963.995,"endTime":1967.231,"body":"that were controlling these chat rooms."},{"startTime":1967.298,"endTime":1970.935,"body":"So they some of these animatronics people"},{"startTime":1967.298,"endTime":1970.935,"body":"that were working"},{"startTime":1971.135,"endTime":1975.073,"body":"were actually also hired to monitor"},{"startTime":1975.173,"endTime":1978.71,"body":"to see"},{"startTime":1975.173,"endTime":1978.71,"body":"if anybody was trying to use the service,"},{"startTime":1978.71,"endTime":1983.114,"body":"because physical sex workers"},{"startTime":1978.71,"endTime":1983.114,"body":"were seen as like taking away profits"},{"startTime":1983.181,"endTime":1987.118,"body":"from the digital chat rooms"},{"startTime":1983.181,"endTime":1987.118,"body":"because they were taking clients"},{"startTime":1987.118,"endTime":1990.355,"body":"like out of the digital world"},{"startTime":1987.118,"endTime":1990.355,"body":"and into the physical world."},{"startTime":1990.421,"endTime":1992.69,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1990.421,"endTime":1992.69,"body":"they were pushed out of these spaces,"},{"startTime":1992.69,"endTime":1998.262,"body":"these spaces that were like controlled"},{"startTime":1992.69,"endTime":1998.262,"body":"by private enterprises."},{"startTime":1998.329,"endTime":2002.667,"body":"Then they were also"},{"startTime":1998.329,"endTime":2002.667,"body":"like some high profile crimes"},{"startTime":2002.667,"endTime":2007.271,"body":"and like murders"},{"startTime":2002.667,"endTime":2007.271,"body":"and some horrible things that happened."},{"startTime":2007.271,"endTime":2011.909,"body":"And that was a bit of like there was"},{"startTime":2007.271,"endTime":2011.909,"body":"an outcry, a public outcry around it."},{"startTime":2012.01,"endTime":2015.013,"body":"But essentially"},{"startTime":2012.01,"endTime":2015.013,"body":"the government was starting to say like,"},{"startTime":2015.013,"endTime":2017.548,"body":"well, we're not"},{"startTime":2015.013,"endTime":2017.548,"body":"we're not in charge of censorship."},{"startTime":2017.548,"endTime":2018.649,"body":"Like, that's not what we're doing."},{"startTime":2018.649,"endTime":2022.42,"body":"We're just providing this as a"},{"startTime":2018.649,"endTime":2022.42,"body":"like a as a service."},{"startTime":2022.487,"endTime":2024.522,"body":"But they were like, we're going to get"},{"startTime":2024.522,"endTime":2029.027,"body":"we're going to wait out"},{"startTime":2024.522,"endTime":2029.027,"body":"like the really dark stuff."},{"startTime":2029.093,"endTime":2034.766,"body":"And so I think anything that was illegal,"},{"startTime":2029.093,"endTime":2034.766,"body":"like physically illegal."},{"startTime":2034.866,"endTime":2037.802,"body":"So, you know, like pedophilia and things,"},{"startTime":2037.802,"endTime":2040.238,"body":"the if that was coming up in"},{"startTime":2040.238,"endTime":2043.241,"body":"like the text based chat rooms,"},{"startTime":2043.241,"endTime":2046.878,"body":"the idea was that"},{"startTime":2043.241,"endTime":2046.878,"body":"those rooms would get shut down."},{"startTime":2046.944,"endTime":2050.148,"body":"I'm not sure how much"},{"startTime":2046.944,"endTime":2050.148,"body":"that actually occurred because it's hard"},{"startTime":2050.148,"endTime":2054.018,"body":"to kind of control,"},{"startTime":2050.148,"endTime":2054.018,"body":"but I did read about how some of these"},{"startTime":2054.085,"endTime":2058.856,"body":"so like the private services"},{"startTime":2054.085,"endTime":2058.856,"body":"were going through and like doing"},{"startTime":2058.856,"endTime":2063.428,"body":"a bit of self censorship and monitoring"},{"startTime":2058.856,"endTime":2063.428,"body":"just so that they wouldn't be taken down."},{"startTime":2063.494,"endTime":2066.164,"body":"So yeah, it's a quite a complex network"},{"startTime":2066.164,"endTime":2069.967,"body":"system of, of censorship"},{"startTime":2066.164,"endTime":2069.967,"body":"and like freedom as well."},{"startTime":2070.001,"endTime":2070.601,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2070.601,"endTime":2076.14,"body":"So in 1984 the government added a feature"},{"startTime":2070.601,"endTime":2076.14,"body":"where the terminal would save"},{"startTime":2076.24,"endTime":2079.177,"body":"the last page that you visited"},{"startTime":2076.24,"endTime":2079.177,"body":"so that you could pick up again"},{"startTime":2079.177,"endTime":2081.813,"body":"next time you logged"},{"startTime":2079.177,"endTime":2081.813,"body":"in. Kind of like a cookie."},{"startTime":2081.813,"endTime":2085.75,"body":"I guess that people generally,"},{"startTime":2081.813,"endTime":2085.75,"body":"like, hated it, hated this idea."},{"startTime":2085.75,"endTime":2089.32,"body":"There were op eds in the newspapers"},{"startTime":2085.75,"endTime":2089.32,"body":"saying that it was like Big Brother"},{"startTime":2089.32,"endTime":2092.723,"body":"and people were protesting"},{"startTime":2089.32,"endTime":2092.723,"body":"by returning their terminals."},{"startTime":2092.824,"endTime":2095.693,"body":"So this feature,"},{"startTime":2092.824,"endTime":2095.693,"body":"I don't know if it was used"},{"startTime":2095.693,"endTime":2100.498,"body":"and then dropped or they just like"},{"startTime":2095.693,"endTime":2100.498,"body":"it never came to fruition."},{"startTime":2100.565,"endTime":2102.4,"body":"But the anonymity of it"},{"startTime":2102.4,"endTime":2106.737,"body":"was also useful for other things, such"},{"startTime":2102.4,"endTime":2106.737,"body":"as there was like a big university student"},{"startTime":2106.737,"endTime":2111.709,"body":"strike in 1986, and that was organized"},{"startTime":2106.737,"endTime":2111.709,"body":"through through them in Intel system."},{"startTime":2111.776,"endTime":2117.048,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"startTime":2111.776,"endTime":2117.048,"body":"kind of just like a privacy is attitude"},{"startTime":2117.115,"endTime":2122.72,"body":"because I think I'm just going to kind"},{"startTime":2117.115,"endTime":2122.72,"body":"of expand on lettuce and a little bit"},{"startTime":2122.787,"endTime":2125.656,"body":"because a lot of people"},{"startTime":2122.787,"endTime":2125.656,"body":"don't actually know what that word means."},{"startTime":2125.656,"endTime":2127.425,"body":"Like when someone says like,"},{"startTime":2125.656,"endTime":2127.425,"body":"Oh, I'm a Luddite,"},{"startTime":2127.425,"endTime":2131.062,"body":"they usually refer to the fact"},{"startTime":2127.425,"endTime":2131.062,"body":"that they're like bad with technology, but"},{"startTime":2131.129,"endTime":2134.966,"body":"it's actually the history of lettuce."},{"startTime":2134.966,"endTime":2139.837,"body":"Them as a movement is really rooted in"},{"startTime":2134.966,"endTime":2139.837,"body":"like workers striking against technology."},{"startTime":2139.837,"endTime":2145.009,"body":"And then finding out that"},{"startTime":2139.837,"endTime":2145.009,"body":"actually they can just have control"},{"startTime":2145.009,"endTime":2148.746,"body":"of these technologies and machines"},{"startTime":2145.009,"endTime":2148.746,"body":"and then just have a little bit"},{"startTime":2148.746,"endTime":2152.984,"body":"more like policy and rules around"},{"startTime":2148.746,"endTime":2152.984,"body":"like how it should be used safely."},{"startTime":2153.184,"endTime":2153.484,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2153.484,"endTime":2157.455,"body":"So the term Luddite means someone who is,"},{"startTime":2153.484,"endTime":2157.455,"body":"you know, anti-technology"},{"startTime":2157.455,"endTime":2161.459,"body":"or maybe just not adept"},{"startTime":2157.455,"endTime":2161.459,"body":"at using technology."},{"startTime":2161.559,"endTime":2165.062,"body":"That's the the social representation"},{"startTime":2161.559,"endTime":2165.062,"body":"of what it is now."},{"startTime":2165.062,"endTime":2168.065,"body":"But historically,"},{"startTime":2165.062,"endTime":2168.065,"body":"the modern the modern meaning."},{"startTime":2168.132,"endTime":2172.436,"body":"Yeah, but the Luddite movement"},{"startTime":2168.132,"endTime":2172.436,"body":"was a reaction born of industrial"},{"startTime":2172.537,"endTime":2176.541,"body":"accidents and dangerous machines"},{"startTime":2172.537,"endTime":2176.541,"body":"and poor working conditions."},{"startTime":2176.541,"endTime":2180.678,"body":"And the fact that there were no unions"},{"startTime":2176.541,"endTime":2180.678,"body":"to represent worker"},{"startTime":2180.678,"endTime":2188.419,"body":"interests during England's"},{"startTime":2180.678,"endTime":2188.419,"body":"initial period of industrialization."},{"startTime":2188.486,"endTime":2191.622,"body":"So the Luddites did not hate technology."},{"startTime":2191.622,"endTime":2194.592,"body":"They only channeled their anger towards"},{"startTime":2194.859,"endTime":2198.196,"body":"machine breaking"},{"startTime":2194.859,"endTime":2198.196,"body":"because it had sort of nowhere else to go."},{"startTime":2198.196,"endTime":2201.465,"body":"So these strikes were actually usually"},{"startTime":2198.196,"endTime":2201.465,"body":"quite violent"},{"startTime":2201.465,"endTime":2206.504,"body":"and involved a lot of hammering down"},{"startTime":2201.465,"endTime":2206.504,"body":"machines that"},{"startTime":2206.571,"endTime":2209.14,"body":"initially hurt someone like their power"},{"startTime":2209.14,"endTime":2212.343,"body":"or their power or their coworker."},{"startTime":2212.443,"endTime":2216.28,"body":"And yeah,"},{"startTime":2212.443,"endTime":2216.28,"body":"so in the early 1820s, each factory"},{"startTime":2216.28,"endTime":2222.119,"body":"set up its own like distributed Luddite"},{"startTime":2216.28,"endTime":2222.119,"body":"councils, which were elected"},{"startTime":2222.119,"endTime":2227.858,"body":"from the cadres, which are basically"},{"startTime":2222.119,"endTime":2227.858,"body":"like wage earners or employees."},{"startTime":2227.925,"endTime":2231.262,"body":"This term is completely archaic."},{"startTime":2231.262,"endTime":2235.166,"body":"But yeah, they were basically creators,"},{"startTime":2231.262,"endTime":2235.166,"body":"not employees,"},{"startTime":2235.266,"endTime":2238.97,"body":"and they were not convinced"},{"startTime":2235.266,"endTime":2238.97,"body":"that the free market"},{"startTime":2238.97,"endTime":2242.707,"body":"should be"},{"startTime":2238.97,"endTime":2242.707,"body":"the only determinant of technology."},{"startTime":2242.773,"endTime":2248.846,"body":"So instead they really firmly believed"},{"startTime":2242.773,"endTime":2248.846,"body":"that had to be adopted"},{"startTime":2248.946,"endTime":2254.685,"body":"democratically and used for the common"},{"startTime":2248.946,"endTime":2254.685,"body":"good, not just for the interest of the few"},{"startTime":2254.752,"endTime":2258.422,"body":"and let speeches during the time,"},{"startTime":2258.522,"endTime":2261.492,"body":"and to use the kind of leader"},{"startTime":2258.522,"endTime":2261.492,"body":"of the movement"},{"startTime":2261.592,"endTime":2267.064,"body":"made the point that technological goals"},{"startTime":2261.592,"endTime":2267.064,"body":"and resource allocation"},{"startTime":2267.064,"endTime":2272.703,"body":"and were to be decided in advance"},{"startTime":2267.064,"endTime":2272.703,"body":"based on social needs and prioritization"},{"startTime":2272.77,"endTime":2278.643,"body":"and invention was to be paid for"},{"startTime":2272.77,"endTime":2278.643,"body":"and encouraged in those areas. So"},{"startTime":2278.743,"endTime":2280.845,"body":"yeah, I think that's quite,"},{"startTime":2280.845,"endTime":2285.149,"body":"quite similar to what was happening"},{"startTime":2280.845,"endTime":2285.149,"body":"with Minato, especially with the student"},{"startTime":2285.149,"endTime":2289.92,"body":"strikes and kind of self-organized ation"},{"startTime":2285.149,"endTime":2289.92,"body":"and how it facilitates them."},{"startTime":2290.021,"endTime":2292.323,"body":"Maybe grassroots"},{"startTime":2292.323,"endTime":2293.291,"body":"activism."},{"startTime":2293.291,"endTime":2296.26,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":2293.291,"endTime":2296.26,"body":"it's like there's something about the"},{"startTime":2296.294,"endTime":2300.031,"body":"like this simple nature of them in a tell,"},{"startTime":2296.294,"endTime":2300.031,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":2300.231,"endTime":2304.669,"body":"maybe it was just like easy to understand"},{"startTime":2300.231,"endTime":2304.669,"body":"how it could be used"},{"startTime":2304.669,"endTime":2309.04,"body":"or see how it could be integrated"},{"startTime":2304.669,"endTime":2309.04,"body":"because it was kind of just like a text"},{"startTime":2309.04,"endTime":2313.811,"body":"based version of other things of"},{"startTime":2309.04,"endTime":2313.811,"body":"like the phone way more than the Internet."},{"startTime":2313.811,"endTime":2317.114,"body":"Then the Internet is the Internet"},{"startTime":2313.811,"endTime":2317.114,"body":"seems like its own based."},{"startTime":2317.181,"endTime":2319.817,"body":"But the yeah, the minute health services"},{"startTime":2317.181,"endTime":2319.817,"body":"well there were you know"},{"startTime":2319.817,"endTime":2323.554,"body":"like games you could play"},{"startTime":2319.817,"endTime":2323.554,"body":"and all sorts of stuff like the things"},{"startTime":2323.554,"endTime":2326.557,"body":"that you were doing on them in the"},{"startTime":2323.554,"endTime":2326.557,"body":"how were largely things that you will"},{"startTime":2326.624,"endTime":2327.758,"body":"maybe already doing."},{"startTime":2327.758,"endTime":2330.728,"body":"It was just like an updated,"},{"startTime":2330.795,"endTime":2334.699,"body":"faster, more convenient version of that."},{"startTime":2334.765,"endTime":2339.97,"body":"So at its peak in the mid nineties"},{"startTime":2334.765,"endTime":2339.97,"body":"there were 9 million sets in homes"},{"startTime":2339.97,"endTime":2345.142,"body":"with 25 million users, which was"},{"startTime":2339.97,"endTime":2345.142,"body":"which was 34% of the French population."},{"startTime":2345.242,"endTime":2348.446,"body":"And there were over"},{"startTime":2345.242,"endTime":2348.446,"body":"26,000 services available."},{"startTime":2348.679,"endTime":2352.783,"body":"That's a connected population."},{"startTime":2352.85,"endTime":2354.819,"body":"The transition to the Internet"},{"startTime":2354.819,"endTime":2358.656,"body":"and the World Wide Web began"},{"startTime":2354.819,"endTime":2358.656,"body":"only at the end of the 1990s."},{"startTime":2358.656,"endTime":2361.659,"body":"This has been described"},{"startTime":2358.656,"endTime":2361.659,"body":"as the French delay,"},{"startTime":2361.692,"endTime":2364.528,"body":"suggesting that"},{"startTime":2361.692,"endTime":2364.528,"body":"the success of the Frenchman is has slowed"},{"startTime":2364.528,"endTime":2368.399,"body":"the implementation and uptake"},{"startTime":2364.528,"endTime":2368.399,"body":"of the internet minute how he created"},{"startTime":2368.399,"endTime":2372.336,"body":"and reflected certain attitudes"},{"startTime":2368.399,"endTime":2372.336,"body":"and expectations in the government"},{"startTime":2372.336,"endTime":2378.142,"body":"and general population that were hard"},{"startTime":2372.336,"endTime":2378.142,"body":"for the internet to overcome to gain uses."},{"startTime":2378.242,"endTime":2380.511,"body":"Neanderthal was seen as highly reliable."},{"startTime":2380.511,"endTime":2383.981,"body":"Both the service itself and the hardware,"},{"startTime":2380.511,"endTime":2383.981,"body":"which was easy to use"},{"startTime":2383.981,"endTime":2387.885,"body":"and had longevity"},{"startTime":2383.981,"endTime":2387.885,"body":"from a government perspective."},{"startTime":2387.918,"endTime":2390.488,"body":"Minute House"},{"startTime":2387.918,"endTime":2390.488,"body":"started breaking even and making money"},{"startTime":2390.488,"endTime":2393.491,"body":"for them in the mid-nineties,"},{"startTime":2390.488,"endTime":2393.491,"body":"and I guess they continued."},{"startTime":2393.491,"endTime":2395.426,"body":"They wanted to continue doing that."},{"startTime":2395.426,"endTime":2399.296,"body":"Well, Minister, it also worked"},{"startTime":2395.426,"endTime":2399.296,"body":"exceptionally well for e-commerce"},{"startTime":2399.296,"endTime":2403.267,"body":"and there was a perception"},{"startTime":2399.296,"endTime":2403.267,"body":"that the Internet was lacking in this area"},{"startTime":2403.267,"endTime":2407.271,"body":"because it didn't have"},{"startTime":2403.267,"endTime":2407.271,"body":"a simple centralized billing system"},{"startTime":2407.371,"endTime":2410.274,"body":"and it was felt that the like"},{"startTime":2407.371,"endTime":2410.274,"body":"the open style of the Internet"},{"startTime":2410.274,"endTime":2413.711,"body":"would discourage"},{"startTime":2410.274,"endTime":2413.711,"body":"private commercial services."},{"startTime":2413.778,"endTime":2417.181,"body":"So like in a way, France with minute"},{"startTime":2413.778,"endTime":2417.181,"body":"how back then"},{"startTime":2417.181,"endTime":2422.486,"body":"was kind of where we're at now with this"},{"startTime":2417.181,"endTime":2422.486,"body":"like commercialization of the Internet."},{"startTime":2422.586,"endTime":2425.022,"body":"Yeah, the Internet wasn't"},{"startTime":2425.022,"endTime":2428.225,"body":"doing for the French what"},{"startTime":2428.292,"endTime":2431.729,"body":"but the minute how could you so anything"},{"startTime":2428.292,"endTime":2431.729,"body":"the French would want to do"},{"startTime":2431.729,"endTime":2435.466,"body":"on the internet they were already doing"},{"startTime":2431.729,"endTime":2435.466,"body":"want me to tell"},{"startTime":2435.533,"endTime":2438.102,"body":"the internet"},{"startTime":2435.533,"endTime":2438.102,"body":"just wasn't providing a new enough service"},{"startTime":2438.102,"endTime":2441.739,"body":"to warrant an entire network change"},{"startTime":2438.102,"endTime":2441.739,"body":"or an entire mental shift."},{"startTime":2441.806,"endTime":2444.542,"body":"So as the Internet started to grow in"},{"startTime":2444.542,"endTime":2450.381,"body":"use around the world and in France, Minato"},{"startTime":2444.542,"endTime":2450.381,"body":"also stuck around"},{"startTime":2450.481,"endTime":2454.285,"body":"and alongside the terminals, users"},{"startTime":2450.481,"endTime":2454.285,"body":"could then access minutes"},{"startTime":2454.418,"endTime":2458.322,"body":"on their PCs"},{"startTime":2454.418,"endTime":2458.322,"body":"or their Macs using emulation software."},{"startTime":2458.389,"endTime":2460.157,"body":"In 23 minutes."},{"startTime":2460.157,"endTime":2465.563,"body":"Hell was offered as part of French"},{"startTime":2460.157,"endTime":2465.563,"body":"versions of Microsoft's operating system,"},{"startTime":2465.663,"endTime":2469.567,"body":"and because of the importance of minute"},{"startTime":2465.663,"endTime":2469.567,"body":"health services, the Internet"},{"startTime":2469.567,"endTime":2475.005,"body":"was used in France in very specific ways"},{"startTime":2469.567,"endTime":2475.005,"body":"and so very specific circumstances."},{"startTime":2475.072,"endTime":2478.342,"body":"With the shift to the Internet,"},{"startTime":2475.072,"endTime":2478.342,"body":"French companies felt that they needed"},{"startTime":2478.342,"endTime":2482.213,"body":"to stay with the text based"},{"startTime":2478.342,"endTime":2482.213,"body":"functional design style of the minute."},{"startTime":2482.246,"endTime":2487.818,"body":"So there was a sense that the new flashy"},{"startTime":2482.246,"endTime":2487.818,"body":"American sites were a bit gauche."},{"startTime":2487.885,"endTime":2492.957,"body":"It was also seen as not offering new that"},{"startTime":2487.885,"endTime":2492.957,"body":"the minute it wasn't already offering."},{"startTime":2493.057,"endTime":2496.293,"body":"Early French Internet sites were often"},{"startTime":2493.057,"endTime":2496.293,"body":"just expanded"},{"startTime":2496.293,"endTime":2498.462,"body":"versions of the minute health sites."},{"startTime":2498.462,"endTime":2502.433,"body":"Now, with the ability"},{"startTime":2498.462,"endTime":2502.433,"body":"to display more complex images,"},{"startTime":2502.533,"endTime":2505.536,"body":"but some of these sites"},{"startTime":2502.533,"endTime":2505.536,"body":"didn't incorporate e-commerce,"},{"startTime":2505.536,"endTime":2506.837,"body":"and then they instead directed"},{"startTime":2506.837,"endTime":2510.741,"body":"users back to the minute"},{"startTime":2506.837,"endTime":2510.741,"body":"health system to make purchases."},{"startTime":2510.841,"endTime":2513.711,"body":"So minutes was seen as a way to order"},{"startTime":2513.711,"endTime":2516.514,"body":"and the Internet was seen as a way"},{"startTime":2513.711,"endTime":2516.514,"body":"to advertise."},{"startTime":2516.514,"endTime":2521.051,"body":"At this point, they were kind of"},{"startTime":2516.514,"endTime":2521.051,"body":"running side by side and to just display."},{"startTime":2521.051,"endTime":2526.457,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's a very symbolic"},{"startTime":2521.051,"endTime":2526.457,"body":"of the Internet's identity crisis"},{"startTime":2526.457,"endTime":2529.827,"body":"while it was being built"},{"startTime":2526.457,"endTime":2529.827,"body":"and spread across the globe,"},{"startTime":2529.827,"endTime":2533.364,"body":"because there was just"},{"startTime":2529.827,"endTime":2533.364,"body":"almost like too many possibilities."},{"startTime":2533.364,"endTime":2538.235,"body":"And I can imagine a lot of people"},{"startTime":2533.364,"endTime":2538.235,"body":"at the time would have had arguments about"},{"startTime":2538.302,"endTime":2538.903,"body":"what it was"},{"startTime":2538.903,"endTime":2541.906,"body":"exactly for, like whether it was a tool"},{"startTime":2542.106,"endTime":2546.176,"body":"to ease bureaucracy"},{"startTime":2542.106,"endTime":2546.176,"body":"and facilitate financialization"},{"startTime":2546.176,"endTime":2550.114,"body":"from the post-industrial era,"},{"startTime":2546.176,"endTime":2550.114,"body":"or was it for entertainment?"},{"startTime":2550.147,"endTime":2551.916,"body":"Like, what is it?"},{"startTime":2551.916,"endTime":2554.919,"body":"Yeah, I'm still asking that question."},{"startTime":2554.952,"endTime":2556.353,"body":"Yeah, that's good too."},{"startTime":2556.353,"endTime":2559.456,"body":"And like, I suppose with Intel,"},{"startTime":2556.353,"endTime":2559.456,"body":"it was like, What is it?"},{"startTime":2559.456,"endTime":2561.325,"body":"It's a phone directory."},{"startTime":2561.325,"endTime":2562.192,"body":"It's a phone book."},{"startTime":2562.192,"endTime":2567.231,"body":"And then slowly it was like"},{"startTime":2562.192,"endTime":2567.231,"body":"you can order train tickets and yeah,"},{"startTime":2567.231,"endTime":2571.168,"body":"so like it, they knew what it was for"},{"startTime":2567.231,"endTime":2571.168,"body":"from the start and then like it"},{"startTime":2571.201,"endTime":2574.605,"body":"proliferated into these"},{"startTime":2571.201,"endTime":2574.605,"body":"like 26,000 different services."},{"startTime":2574.605,"endTime":2576.407,"body":"But you know, it didn't happen at once."},{"startTime":2576.407,"endTime":2578.175,"body":"So while later than the rest of the world,"},{"startTime":2578.175,"endTime":2581.412,"body":"when the Internet did emerge in France,"},{"startTime":2578.175,"endTime":2581.412,"body":"it had a fast growth rate."},{"startTime":2581.412,"endTime":2586.85,"body":"In 1999, it grew 60% compared to 41%"},{"startTime":2586.951,"endTime":2589.453,"body":"in rest of Europe."},{"startTime":2589.453,"endTime":2591.822,"body":"After trying and mostly failing"},{"startTime":2591.822,"endTime":2595.459,"body":"at developing minute how connections"},{"startTime":2591.822,"endTime":2595.459,"body":"and networks in other countries."},{"startTime":2595.526,"endTime":2599.93,"body":"In the end, the global reach of the"},{"startTime":2595.526,"endTime":2599.93,"body":"Internet and its ability to display images"},{"startTime":2599.93,"endTime":2603.801,"body":"overwhelmed the importance of minutes"},{"startTime":2599.93,"endTime":2603.801,"body":"how in French society"},{"startTime":2603.867,"endTime":2607.271,"body":"more time and money was starting"},{"startTime":2603.867,"endTime":2607.271,"body":"to be put into developing websites."},{"startTime":2607.271,"endTime":2610.841,"body":"It's then improving"},{"startTime":2607.271,"endTime":2610.841,"body":"and developing them in its health system."},{"startTime":2610.908,"endTime":2615.913,"body":"The minute all network was closed"},{"startTime":2610.908,"endTime":2615.913,"body":"in June 2012, after 30 years,"},{"startTime":2615.98,"endTime":2618.482,"body":"it was still accessed"},{"startTime":2615.98,"endTime":2618.482,"body":"by a large number of people,"},{"startTime":2618.482,"endTime":2622.286,"body":"but they were mostly just using"},{"startTime":2618.482,"endTime":2622.286,"body":"the original phone directory, I guess"},{"startTime":2622.286,"endTime":2626.457,"body":"probably because the services weren't"},{"startTime":2622.286,"endTime":2626.457,"body":"being like monitored or updated as much."},{"startTime":2626.457,"endTime":2628.125,"body":"The other services"},{"startTime":2628.125,"endTime":2631.428,"body":"the cost of the upkeep of the network"},{"startTime":2628.125,"endTime":2631.428,"body":"was becoming"},{"startTime":2631.462,"endTime":2633.631,"body":"too large for the government"},{"startTime":2631.462,"endTime":2633.631,"body":"and that's why they closed that,"},{"startTime":2633.631,"endTime":2637.267,"body":"which I think is kind of funny"},{"startTime":2633.631,"endTime":2637.267,"body":"because like the is how originally"},{"startTime":2637.401,"endTime":2641.739,"body":"that was developed because the phone"},{"startTime":2637.401,"endTime":2641.739,"body":"directory printing, physically"},{"startTime":2641.905,"endTime":2644.441,"body":"printing, the phone directory was"},{"startTime":2641.905,"endTime":2644.441,"body":"it was costing too much money."},{"startTime":2644.441,"endTime":2647.711,"body":"So they developed this hotel network"},{"startTime":2644.441,"endTime":2647.711,"body":"and now the minute cell network"},{"startTime":2647.711,"endTime":2650.781,"body":"is too costly, it's too costly."},{"startTime":2650.781,"endTime":2651.982,"body":"Like the phone directory on them is"},{"startTime":2651.982,"endTime":2654.585,"body":"whole network is too"},{"startTime":2651.982,"endTime":2654.585,"body":"costly that they have to close in."},{"startTime":2654.585,"endTime":2656.754,"body":"So this is how it became popular."},{"startTime":2656.754,"endTime":2662.226,"body":"And so many people used it largely"},{"startTime":2656.754,"endTime":2662.226,"body":"because because it was state subsidized"},{"startTime":2662.292,"endTime":2665.362,"body":"like everyone that wanted"},{"startTime":2662.292,"endTime":2665.362,"body":"it got a free terminal from."},{"startTime":2665.596,"endTime":2668.599,"body":"And it also from the post office."},{"startTime":2668.732,"endTime":2672.97,"body":"But I think this has been insane."},{"startTime":2673.037,"endTime":2673.671,"body":"I'm not sure."},{"startTime":2673.671,"endTime":2677.307,"body":"Like everyone went, it was like a draw."},{"startTime":2677.408,"endTime":2681.712,"body":"I'm going to tell a pandemic."},{"startTime":2681.779,"endTime":2684.848,"body":"It also became enmeshed in day"},{"startTime":2681.779,"endTime":2684.848,"body":"to day economic life"},{"startTime":2684.848,"endTime":2689.653,"body":"through these like public"},{"startTime":2684.848,"endTime":2689.653,"body":"and private partnerships of"},{"startTime":2689.72,"endTime":2691.755,"body":"yeah, like the tech and then also the"},{"startTime":2691.755,"endTime":2694.892,"body":"the services"},{"startTime":2691.755,"endTime":2694.892,"body":"being offered is also created."},{"startTime":2695.025,"endTime":2696.293,"body":"Yeah, created slowly."},{"startTime":2696.293,"endTime":2700.431,"body":"And it built on existing systems"},{"startTime":2696.293,"endTime":2700.431,"body":"like existing telephone"},{"startTime":2700.431,"endTime":2704.535,"body":"networks, things that people were already"},{"startTime":2700.431,"endTime":2704.535,"body":"using in public projects."},{"startTime":2704.535,"endTime":2708.472,"body":"And it took on public feedback"},{"startTime":2704.535,"endTime":2708.472,"body":"as it was developed."},{"startTime":2708.572,"endTime":2712.876,"body":"So the Internet wasn't like an answer"},{"startTime":2708.572,"endTime":2712.876,"body":"to problems with minutes."},{"startTime":2712.876,"endTime":2716.447,"body":"So in fact, the Internet had"},{"startTime":2712.876,"endTime":2716.447,"body":"to prove itself more useful than minute."},{"startTime":2716.447,"endTime":2722.619,"body":"How in order for users"},{"startTime":2716.447,"endTime":2722.619,"body":"and service operators to take it up."},{"startTime":2722.686,"endTime":2726.423,"body":"I guess also the internet"},{"startTime":2722.686,"endTime":2726.423,"body":"was a more opportunistic alternative"},{"startTime":2726.457,"endTime":2731.662,"body":"to monetize that had more potential"},{"startTime":2726.457,"endTime":2731.662,"body":"to build capital because"},{"startTime":2731.762,"endTime":2733.831,"body":"as we mentioned, it was"},{"startTime":2733.831,"endTime":2738.168,"body":"the eighties"},{"startTime":2733.831,"endTime":2738.168,"body":"and the post-industrial era was very real"},{"startTime":2738.168,"endTime":2742.573,"body":"and also globalization is happening"},{"startTime":2738.168,"endTime":2742.573,"body":"and you're expanding"},{"startTime":2742.573,"endTime":2746.41,"body":"to make your businesses"},{"startTime":2742.573,"endTime":2746.41,"body":"more international and shipping costs."},{"startTime":2746.41,"endTime":2750.614,"body":"So the Internet was a way to kind of like"},{"startTime":2746.41,"endTime":2750.614,"body":"hook up all of these things,"},{"startTime":2750.681,"endTime":2754.151,"body":"whereas Meditech,"},{"startTime":2750.681,"endTime":2754.151,"body":"I think was a little bit more communal,"},{"startTime":2754.151,"endTime":2757.121,"body":"a little bit more national."},{"startTime":2757.154,"endTime":2759.056,"body":"Yeah, that's fascinating."},{"startTime":2759.056,"endTime":2761.825,"body":"Thank you, Kamila. That was awesome."},{"startTime":2761.825,"endTime":2766.997,"body":"Thanks for listening to a rant"},{"startTime":2761.825,"endTime":2766.997,"body":"about me to tell if you want more,"},{"startTime":2767.097,"endTime":2772.102,"body":"but where we've got our next"},{"startTime":2767.097,"endTime":2772.102,"body":"episode is about this."},{"startTime":2772.102,"endTime":2774.872,"body":"How people, how many towers?"},{"startTime":2774.872,"endTime":2781.111,"body":"Yeah, a little bit more of a deep dive"},{"startTime":2774.872,"endTime":2781.111,"body":"into that side which was I think"},{"startTime":2781.211,"endTime":2786.216,"body":"like 50% of the traffic over"},{"startTime":2781.211,"endTime":2786.216,"body":"the tower was these like, erotic services."},{"startTime":2786.25,"endTime":2787.918,"body":"That's insane."},{"startTime":2787.918,"endTime":2789.82,"body":"I wonder what it is for the Internet?"},{"startTime":2789.82,"endTime":2791.622,"body":"Yeah, I don't know."},{"startTime":2791.622,"endTime":2793.69,"body":"Is it even, like, traceable for us?"},{"startTime":2793.69,"endTime":2795.459,"body":"For normies? Like us?"},{"startTime":2795.459,"endTime":2798.262,"body":"I don't think. I don't. I don't hire"},{"startTime":2798.328,"endTime":2801.198,"body":"our next sort of set of episodes again"},{"startTime":2801.198,"endTime":2806.203,"body":"to be looking at other video"},{"startTime":2801.198,"endTime":2806.203,"body":"text networks from around the globe."},{"startTime":2806.27,"endTime":2808.071,"body":"They were very popular in Europe."},{"startTime":2808.071,"endTime":2813.277,"body":"And then there was, yeah, there were some"},{"startTime":2808.071,"endTime":2813.277,"body":"expansions into other areas of the world,"},{"startTime":2813.343,"endTime":2815.112,"body":"but there was"},{"startTime":2815.112,"endTime":2820.717,"body":"it wasn't something where all of these"},{"startTime":2815.112,"endTime":2820.717,"body":"video text networks could meet up together"},{"startTime":2820.717,"endTime":2825.889,"body":"and form like a global video text network,"},{"startTime":2820.717,"endTime":2825.889,"body":"mainly because like each country"},{"startTime":2825.956,"endTime":2830.093,"body":"there was like four different versions,"},{"startTime":2825.956,"endTime":2830.093,"body":"like different protocols."},{"startTime":2830.093,"endTime":2833.096,"body":"And they couldn't necessarily"},{"startTime":2830.093,"endTime":2833.096,"body":"they weren't compatible."},{"startTime":2833.23,"endTime":2836.767,"body":"And so it was like dependent on,"},{"startTime":2836.834,"endTime":2839.336,"body":"yeah, who else had the same ones?"},{"startTime":2839.336,"endTime":2844.741,"body":"And then to be on,"},{"startTime":2839.336,"endTime":2844.741,"body":"it's like no other country reached the,"},{"startTime":2844.842,"endTime":2848.412,"body":"like widespread use of video text"},{"startTime":2848.478,"endTime":2851.715,"body":"as France did like this was just"},{"startTime":2851.782,"endTime":2856.954,"body":"completely integrated into life"},{"startTime":2851.782,"endTime":2856.954,"body":"and you know the economy"},{"startTime":2857.154,"endTime":2859.223,"body":"and yeah that was mostly"},{"startTime":2859.223,"endTime":2862.459,"body":"because it was like"},{"startTime":2859.223,"endTime":2862.459,"body":"anybody that wanted to chime in"},{"startTime":2862.459,"endTime":2865.329,"body":"or could get a terminal"},{"startTime":2862.459,"endTime":2865.329,"body":"and it was really like encouraged."},{"startTime":2865.329,"endTime":2869.6,"body":"And there was just like something"},{"startTime":2865.329,"endTime":2869.6,"body":"about the way that they set up"},{"startTime":2869.6,"endTime":2875.138,"body":"the establishment of this system"},{"startTime":2869.6,"endTime":2875.138,"body":"that like worked with French society."},{"startTime":2875.205,"endTime":2875.639,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2875.639,"endTime":2879.543,"body":"And also it must be incredible"},{"startTime":2875.639,"endTime":2879.543,"body":"to produce a product"},{"startTime":2879.543,"endTime":2883.18,"body":"that is so simple to use that"},{"startTime":2879.543,"endTime":2883.18,"body":"you don't even need people to come round"},{"startTime":2883.18,"endTime":2886.783,"body":"to your house to like, teach you"},{"startTime":2883.18,"endTime":2886.783,"body":"how to use the terminal or whatever, like"},{"startTime":2886.85,"endTime":2890.954,"body":"the hardware must have been very much"},{"startTime":2886.85,"endTime":2890.954,"body":"based on existing designs already as well."},{"startTime":2890.954,"endTime":2893.957,"body":"Maybe like a typewriter or something."},{"startTime":2893.957,"endTime":2896.026,"body":"Well, it had a keyboard. Yeah."},{"startTime":2896.026,"endTime":2899.296,"body":"And you still called with your phone,"},{"startTime":2899.363,"endTime":2901.865,"body":"so like it was connected"},{"startTime":2899.363,"endTime":2901.865,"body":"to the phone line, but I'm pretty sure"},{"startTime":2901.865,"endTime":2905.669,"body":"like, yeah, you would actually, like,"},{"startTime":2901.865,"endTime":2905.669,"body":"pick up the phone and type in"},{"startTime":2905.769,"endTime":2909.94,"body":"at least the early ones and type in"},{"startTime":2905.769,"endTime":2909.94,"body":"like three things, like I find whatever."},{"startTime":2910.007,"endTime":2913.577,"body":"And then that would like connect"},{"startTime":2910.007,"endTime":2913.577,"body":"popping up on your screen instead of,"},{"startTime":2913.577,"endTime":2914.645,"body":"Yeah, a person on the other end"},{"startTime":2914.645,"endTime":2917.981,"body":"popping up on your screen"},{"startTime":2914.645,"endTime":2917.981,"body":"would be like natural language interface."},{"startTime":2917.981,"endTime":2921.451,"body":"Your phone was the URL for it. Yeah."},{"startTime":2921.551,"endTime":2924.421,"body":"Cool. So yeah,"},{"startTime":2924.521,"endTime":2928.392,"body":"well get ready for sexy minute chat next."},{"startTime":2928.392,"endTime":2932.462,"body":"Next episode, we'll talk to you"},{"startTime":2928.392,"endTime":2932.462,"body":"next time. Bye."},{"startTime":2932.629,"endTime":2935.165,"body":"Thanks, everyone. Goodbye."}]}