Ep 6: Where the River Burns: Untangling the Knots of Gandanta

In this molten episode of Third Eye Roll, Dr. Justine Lemos and Scarlett Trillia dive into the myth-soaked, soul-scorching waters of Gandanta—those karmic knots where water signs dissolve and fire signs ignite. Drawing from Vedic astrology, ancient myth, and modern mood, the duo unpacks how these liminal spaces catalyze profound emotional transformation and spiritual awakening.

Expect a heady mix of Agni and Soma, the elemental lovers of fire and nectar, as they explore the psychological and energetic tension that arises during Gandanta transits. From Venus and Mars blazing through these zones to cultural reflections in fashion, music, and film, this episode reveals how Gandanta moments often show up in our lives as breakdowns, breakthroughs, or the beach trips we didn't know we needed.

✨ Along the way, you'll meet:

• Alchemical lovers balancing masculine and feminine forces
• The mythic tides of transformation hidden in pop songs and wave-washed rituals
• The zodiac’s own meltdown points, where karma tightens—and then lets go

Whether you're riding the edge of a personal shift or just curious about why your life feels like a spiritual soap opera lately, this episode offers insights, tools, and a cosmic mirror.

Takeaways:

• Gandanta is not a problem—it's a passage.
• Transformation requires both fire to burn and water to flow.
• Your emotional chaos might just be sacred architecture.

Tune in, untangle, and let the river burn.

Transcript

Justine Lemos (00:00)
Welcome to third eye roll where ancient wisdom gets decoded, demystified and occasionally roasted. I'm Dr. Justine Lemos with Scarlet Trillia here to serve up Vedic insights, spiritual real talk and a healthy dose of side eye. Each episode we're diving into Vedic astrology, Ayurveda, Tantra and the weird beauty of being human with segments like cosmic current events, story time with the Vedas and Shastras. WTF is that?

and a mystic mic drop to leave you lit. No gurus, no fluff, just the good stuff.

Justine Lemos (00:36)
Welcome back to third eye rule. How are you Scarlett?

Scarlett (00:41)
I'm here. I'm a little congested.

Justine Lemos (00:43)
Me too.

We are here right now.

Scarlett (00:47)
Here we are right now, just slightly congested, but that's all right. ⁓ I'm excited to be back. I love our podcast.

Justine Lemos (00:57)
I love our podcast too. Hey, our podcast is getting lots of listens and even people are giving me feedback and even asked a question.

Scarlett (01:06)
Hey, did we get to answer the question?

Justine Lemos (01:09)
Well, it's a big question, so we'll talk about it a little bit, but we might not answer it all the way. ⁓

Scarlett (01:15)
Well, mean,

the question's in the form of an answer. It's never done.

Justine Lemos (01:23)
Right? So today we're talking about Gandanta between the worlds, the liminal space, between breaths, cosmic knots, fire and water threshold. So let's talk about Gandanta zones in Vedic astrology. And the reason why we're talking about this is

Venus just went through the Gandanta and Mars is about to go through the Gandanta. So let's break it down. ⁓ is WTF is Gandanta? Do you want to start or shall I?

Scarlett (01:55)
That's right.

Well, here, why don't I give some foundational ⁓ information and then I'll let you explain the concept. the, well, in Vedic astrology, some of this is familiar also in Western astrology, that's not the point, but in Vedic astrology, we recognize the place as a zone.

the borderlands, so to speak, in between water signs and fire signs as a gondanta zone. The water sign is always the end of one third of the chart. And this gets to be too complicated to explain fully, but we started to allude to these patterns, right? We started to allude over the course of these podcasts that there's many, patterns that are predictable and repeatable.

In these charts that we look at so one of those patterns is that the last sign in a certain phase as we could call it is water and then when it starts over we were talking about the nakshatra's cycle starting in a fire sign like Aries is number one starts with K2 ruled nakshatra And then it goes all the way so from Aries to Pisces that ends excuse me Aries to Cancer That's a fire sign all the way to a water sign then it starts again in Leo a fire sign all the way

through Scorpio, a water sign, then it ends and starts again with Sagittarius fire and ends in Pisces. So where water meets fire, those elements don't mix and

the few degrees or the last padda, the last nakshatra, if you want to think of it that way. But there's a few degrees on either side, a few degrees in the water, a few degrees in the fire where things are kind of mixing together. We call this a gandanta. And it's actually like the untying of a karmic knot. And I will pass it back to you. Take them a time. Take them a time.

Justine Lemos (04:02)
So from the

Sanskrit, ganda means knot, k-n-o-t, a knot, a tied up knot, and anta means the end. It's the ending knot. And it's also important to note that at these junctures between water and fire signs,

that happened three times. This is where there's no crossover of the star signs between the signs. It's the only place that it happens where star signs meet at a hard stop between the signs. So there's this hard stop meeting between fire and water. From Pisces to Aries, these are Revati and Ashwini, nakshatra's meeting. Between Cancer and Leo, these are Ashlesha and Magha.

meeting between Scorpio and Sagittarius. These are Jaistha and Mula nakshatra's meeting. And right here is this incompatible yet deeply transformative and alchemical meeting of fire and water, which creates steam and pressure and transformation. The Gandhanta is where karma tightens and then it releases. And so a Gandhanta

in real life can feel like emotional flooding. It can feel like spiritual burnout. It could feel like identity crisis. There could be insomnia. There could be fever dreams. When planets move through Gandhanta, we might lose relationships. We might lose career. We might lose our roles or our labels. Even time stops making completely linear sense. This is the liminal zone. It is psychic and it is very sacred.

so this is a, now we also need to, and I'll pass it back over. We need to talk about the, so, so, so, so every sign has a different, ⁓ element associated with it. And they go in a cycle of fire, earth, air, water, three times around the Zodiac. But at the most cardinal, the most

fundamental level of this kind of train of thought is the juxtaposition and perhaps it is a human universal ish just in terms of like I'm really interested in human evolution of the juxtaposition between that which is hot and that which is wet fire and water

Agni and Soma, right? And our relationship with fire as a species, which is unique, no other species handles fire the way that we do, dates to at least, not yet, dates to at least 3.5 million years. So this is the sacred paradox of fire and water.

Scarlett (07:10)
Not yet. Not yet. ⁓

Justine Lemos (07:25)
which are fundamental to the human experience. No water, no life. And certainly we are dependent upon our relationship with the element, the demon, the two-faced ⁓ energy of Agni who has one face that is creation and one face that is destruction. So that was a lot of things that I just said.

Scarlett (07:55)
That was a lot of things that you just said. I, you know, it's not, I mean, we are just putting together lots of different things each time, but little tidbits will come out. And I've had a few people say, I listened to the podcast and I didn't understand, but I'm sure other people do. you're not supposed to hear this and understand all of it for the first time.

That would be crazy. That would be like if you went to Justine's yoga class and you had the same level of skill and expertise doing yoga asana as Justine does, even though you'd never done it and she's been practicing professionally for her entire adult life almost every day. It's like, why would you come and listen to this podcast and expect to know as much as we do? That's not the...

That's not the point. not the point. That's not the point. The point is to hang around and slowly but surely hear things. And as they repeat, you get new neural pathways and you form new memories and then you start to connect the dots. And that's how you learn anything. Right. So one of the things and we like to say you have to repeat something 108 times before it sticks.

So we have to record a lot of podcasts before a dedicated listener would even be expected to have something as esoteric as this stick in their mind, right? But one of the things that you can start to stick, and sometimes facts just leap out and you remember them because they're interesting. So here's an interesting fact about the elements, which is that fire is the only element that can make Morcheeba of itself.

And just let it like hold a little bit of space around that. Fire can make Morcheeba of itself. You can have some earth, you can have a piece of wood, and you can expose it to the fire element. Is this a little bit like rock, paper, scissors-ish, right? You can expose it to the fire element, and the earth element can turn into fire. You can put a pan of water on top of an open fire, and the water will turn from being a liquid into a gas, right? It's like...

Justine Lemos (09:48)
you

Scarlett (10:02)
That doesn't really turn it into fire, but it can transform water. It can transform the elements and it can also turn things into itself. So fire is kind of unique in its capabilities. And I just thought I would mention that as a kind of a side fact because as we talk Morcheeba about Ayurveda, you'll hear us refer to Agni in terms of digestive fire or digestive capacity.

And we haven't given people too much of the Ariavid in this podcast yet, but when we talk about Agni or the principles of Agni inside the body, what we're really talking about is our miraculous ability as a species to ingest a solid food and then transform it into nutrition and energy inside our bodies. Right?

Justine Lemos (10:49)
And also our digestion is quite literally in terms of our evolution linked to our ⁓ harnessing of fire. Our whole digestive tract is dependent and entirely different than other species because we harness when as as homo habilis we ⁓ possibly homo erectus we harnessed fire which completely changed our digestion. And in Vedic thought

Scarlett (11:00)
Google.

Justine Lemos (11:19)
Agni is the messenger, the transformer and the archetype or the mythic character of Agni. He digests offerings and then transmits them to the gods. He represents consciousness and will and discernment and also tapas or austerity.

Scarlett (11:42)
This one is going to be like a secondary tangent and I don't want to take us down this path completely. But just as like a side note coming into the conversation Morcheeba as people who learn and study practice offer Ayurveda is ingredients are important. But speaking of fire, the way that you cook them, the temperature at which you consume them and the state of being in which you digest them is Morcheeba important than what they are.

Justine Lemos (11:43)
Right?

Scarlett (12:12)
Does that make sense? You could eat a raw onion and you could eat a cooked onion and they're not going to taste the same, they're not going to look the same, they're not going to feel the same, they're not going to move the same way through the body and they're not going to come out the same way. So it's really the external fire, the cooking, the internal fire, the digestion is what decides what you get out of that, not the plant itself. Anyway, that's not the point of this conversation, but it's important that we just...

Justine Lemos (12:12)
Yes, yes.

And, but it's, it's important. And

so when we're talking about these fundamental juxtapositions, we just talked a lot about fire. We then have to talk about the wet, the water, or ⁓ at its elevated register, soma, the nectar of immortality, the cooling lunar essence, which was harvested and imbibed by the gods. And this is the

receptive, ecstatic, ecstatic and fluid concept. And it is soma. It comes into the word somatic. It's where we're deeply embodied. And so we have these two fundamental cardinal elemental forces, perhaps the most cardinal elemental forces coming up against each other in the zodiac at this hard stop.

where there's no overlap of the star signs. It's just they meet up like a wall, fire and water meeting together. And these planets, these grahas, these great archetypes, which are inside of us and outside as literal planets, literally move through this zone that is the meeting of two incompatible yet deeply intertwined elements. And so,

As we move from water into fire, soma, water is offered into fire and fire refines soma into transcendence. So this is water ⁓ bliss meeting with burning. And this brings us into some of the fundamental concepts and

tenants of Shavatantra, of Srividyatantra, of the mysterious ⁓ energy of Kundalini as it awakens in the individualized self. So, as to circle back, we have Venus moving through this Gandhanta, that is our heart chakra, moving through the Gandhanta between Pisces and Aries.

we'll break down what that means and then soon we have Mars moving through the Gandanta between Cancer and Leo.

Scarlett (15:11)
And this is so interesting the way that this is happening. And just to be clear, Mars is in Gandanta's zone already, but on the Echelasha side. So it hasn't crossed, but is already in the knot. Venus has crossed, but is still in the knot on the fire side. So what do we have here? We have a planet that is fundamentally feminine, Venus, and related in that sense to water in a way.

Right?

Justine Lemos (15:41)
related

to Shukra, our vital essence and reproductive tissue, which sorry, it's wet, a reproductive tissue and secretions, male and female and intersex, it's gonna be wet.

Scarlett (15:57)
And Venus gets exalted, you know, most powerful in Pisces, a water sign. So Venus has left exaltation of the water, is re-entering the fire, the beginning of a new cycle. So this is like, think about like men are from Mars, women are from Venus. This is very like masculine, feminine, yin yang. ⁓

Ida, Pingala, I mean, you can think of all of these balancing principles and we're getting to experience them together in all of these different ways. So we have the water and fire of the Gandhanta itself. We have a feminine planet leaving exaltation, starting anew in the fire. We have a masculine planet. Mars has been debilitated at its weakest in a water sign. In cancer is crossing Gandhanta back into fire where Mars is going to get a lot of strength back, not exalted strength, but

Justine Lemos (16:49)
That's right.

Scarlett (16:50)
Mars is like the warrior, like the war general who reports to the sun and he's moving into the sun's house. It's like reporting for duty. And that's after a particularly, each of these planets also spent this year, Mars has been in and out of cancer for a long time, longest possible amount of time in their respective water.

either exaltation or debilitation place. We don't usually see them hang out so long in one sign, but with retrogrades, et cetera, they've been there in those positions for a long, time. probably you're already feeling a little bit of the change somewhere at some level from the Venus transit that we're undergoing now. And in another week or so, we're about four or five days away from Mars exiting cancer. We'll still be in Gondunta, but already on the fireside, you may feel a...

Justine Lemos (17:44)
Thank

Scarlett (17:48)
pretty sudden shift of some layer of energy with that one too. Yeah, really, really interesting time. Really interesting chances.

Justine Lemos (17:56)
really interesting time.

⁓ let's, I think it's time. Let's do, what's our, ⁓ what do you got in terms of movie music fashion for the Gandanta zone, the firewater polarity?

Scarlett (18:14)
my goodness. Okay. So I started thinking about, yeah, I've got so much stuff. I started thinking about like transitional fashion. like ⁓ Mars and Cancer is wearing the like hiking pants and then it goes through Gandanta and like unzips the legs and now there's shorts. ⁓

Justine Lemos (18:16)
Do you have anything?

That's good. ⁓

Scarlett (18:39)
You know those sunglasses? You know you like glasses and then when they're exposed to sunlight they turn into sunglasses? they're like, yeah, or even better like the ones that have like the clip-on shades. they flip down. Yeah, like that. Like another one would be like, like ⁓ your, your, it's like resort wear. So you have your swimsuit on and then you have like the

Justine Lemos (18:40)
That's super good.

yeah.

⁓ that flip up?

Scarlett (19:06)
the thing that you put over it, or like when swimmers get done at a swimming competition and then they put on like a parka, it's like you're wearing like a swimsuit and a winter jacket at the same time. Like it's kind of those energies. I had some good ones, but yeah, those are good ones, right? Anything that kind of is like a convertible has like convertible capacity.

Justine Lemos (19:24)
Those are good. ⁓ huh.

I had, ⁓ know, when women wear those or men do also, but like the mermaid tail that you swim in, you know what I'm talking about? Like it puts your, and it like looks like a mermaid tail. You can see like videos of women, but you're at a barbecue.

Scarlett (19:42)
Mm-hmm.

⁓ okay, okay. All right, all right. I like it, I like it. For

some reason, the image I got in my mind are those psychedelic 1970s platform high heeled shoes, but there's a live goldfish in the water inside the heel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this.

Justine Lemos (20:06)
⁓ huh.

Yes, yeah, totally.

And for film, I'd like to give a shout out to two of my very favorite films. And it's actually a trilogy that was made. And if you haven't seen these films, I don't know where one can see them, but they are absolutely amazing films. they're Deepa Mehta's trilogy, She Made Fire and Earth and Water.

but it's fire and water that become the most logical here. And so fire, if you haven't seen it, it's the lives of two women named Radha and Sita, of course, very famous characters out of the Indian pantheon from the Ramayana and then from the stories of Radha and Krishna. And they're living together in a joint family in New Delhi. And this film is all about...

sexuality and thapas and they find that they're in love with each other and it's it's all about fire and you know this film sparked a great deal of controversy in India especially because of its depiction of ⁓ lesbian relationships and it's a beautiful beautiful film and it makes you think a lot about ⁓ sexuality and desire and ⁓

And then the companion to that or one of the companions, there's also Earth, but Water, it's just one of my absolute favorite films ever. It's such a beautiful film and it's set in Varanasi right on the banks of the Ganges River and it's set right at the time of Indian independence. And it's about a child's widow in 1942 India.

and two of the other women who are widows who are living in this ashram for widows. And it's a beautiful, beautiful film. And it's ⁓ just laden with imagery of water. And it really is about ⁓ societal pressure and discrimination and India right on the precipice of ⁓ independence. So those are the two films that came to mind for me.

Scarlett (22:31)
I know we don't always do a literary pick, this inspired me to just throw one in. ⁓ There's a French coming of age novel and something about coming of age as a concept even is also very fitting for kind of what you just described. It's the liminal space. It's a transition zone. Bonjour Trieste. Is it Trieste? How do you say sadness in French? Trieste. Yeah, that, have you read that book?

Justine Lemos (22:41)
Yes. Liminal space. Yeah.

Trieste. Trieste.

I haven't.

Scarlett (22:56)
It's

beautiful. read it in French once upon a time. could do that. ⁓ And I've also read it in English. And it's a very simple story. It's like a daughter and her father are summer vacations. So they've gone to the coast. They've left Paris and they've gone to the coast. And it's kind of like, she's just like laying around at the beach a lot. Which by the way, the beach also very, the beach is a Gandanta zone. The beach is the Gandanta. You can get wet and sunburned at the same time. Yeah.

Justine Lemos (23:17)
Gandanta, it's a liminal zone. And what's so interesting is to watch, is to watch

what people do at the beach because they do all of these things that you don't do in normal life because it is a liminal space. And people are taking off their clothes and they're frolicking and it's like this, it's an otherworldly space. It's not where we go and do business. It's not where we act normal. Yeah.

Scarlett (23:27)
Good.

Exactly.

no. no.

and i mean, we both grew up near, on the north coast of california where it's cold, but there's beaches. so my childhood pictures, i'm wearing no pants and a sweater. right? because you're wet, but it's cold. and think about a beach too, you could have your feet in the water and be getting sunburned at the same time. so in this book-

Justine Lemos (23:56)
Yes, correct. Mine too.

Scarlett (24:09)
there's a lot of like just kind of flopping around on the beach and like you know in the little boat but there's enormous emotional undercurrents in this kind of like wretched family dynamic and secrets and just this whole coming of age working out but the context is like you're just sitting there at the beach really i mean you should just read the book it's better than that but that's that's very much the energy of what we're talking about um okay music

Justine Lemos (24:18)
Yes.

Yes.

Hehehehehe

Love it. and

then, and then music. Okay. So we've talked about Morcheeba before Morcheeba Chiba just came out with an amazing, with a new album. It's really great. I love it. At any rate, ⁓ they made two albums without sky who is like, it's only two people in the band. So they made two albums without one half of the band and the two albums, they're amazing albums, even though I love sky and they are called blaze away.

Scarlett (24:39)
Thank

Justine Lemos (25:06)
and it's super fiery. And then they made a dive deep, deep dive, dive deep, which is water. And so those two, which came out back to back are gunned onto albums. Yeah, blaze away and deep, deep dive, dive deep. I've got to, I've got to get it right. I've got to look it up. ⁓ Yeah, it's dive deep, blaze away and dive deep.

Scarlett (25:06)
yeah.

Definitely, those are definitely good news.

those are good ones the- the- the musical- i don't have a perfect, ⁓ example of this but a genre that also came to mind to me is like, ska like, contemporary ska where they're like, okay, punk is cool but it's a little hard, we could use a horn section you know? now it's like jazz, kind of like, mm, there's a lot going on

Justine Lemos (25:35)
Yeah.

I don't know.

Right? Or I know, It's

Scarlett (26:04)
What is happening? ⁓

Justine Lemos (26:04)
like, it's like, it's like, know, when Latin X gangsters drive around bumping polka music, it's like, it's always like, it's such a cultural phenomena. And, and from my outsider perspective, it's such a strange juxtaposition because it doesn't give like gangster hardness, but somehow it does.

Scarlett (26:20)
Is there?

Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, juxtaposition is really the key word here. Do we have a myth?

Justine Lemos (26:32)
Right? I do. Well, I

have an interesting kind of short myth. and it takes a little bit of context. once upon a time, long, long ago, far, far away, simultaneously, thank you, simultaneously right now and right here inside of each of us. So, in the Eastern state of India, which is now called Odisha,

Scarlett (26:48)
in a

Justine Lemos (27:02)
formerly called Orissa, ⁓ there is a practice of dedicating, as throughout much of India, a practice of dedicating women to temples who would then perform ritual arts and dance. And this myth was told by one of these women in the 80s to Frederick Margolin, who was an anthropologist, who actually I know, I was very close with her daughter for like 15 years. ⁓

And one of these dedicated women, Devdassi's told, or Maharish told Frederick Margolin this story during her research. And I think that ⁓ it is very appropriate. So in the kingdom of Orissa, which was a kingdom with a king, a princely kingdom, when there was a drought,

you know, because oftentimes the rains don't come and it's an agricultural state, you need the rains to grow food. It was thought that there was a sadhu, a wandering yogi, a mechadant, an ascetic, who had practiced so much intense asceticism that he had generated so much inner fire, so much tapas.

He was so still, so detached, had harnessed all of his sexual energy, harnessed this Kundalini, which is fire, which rises upward in a triangle, that ⁓ this causes the outer rains to stop. No outside rains because one single yogi has developed so much ⁓ tapas that it's not going to rain.

on the outside because of the renunciation. And so when that would happen, according to this myth that was told to Frederick Margolin, the king would then go to the temple and get the women who had been there dedicated, who were dancers and singers, to go out and find the sadhu, the wandering ascetic, ash covered in his trance, and to seduce him.

And when these Devdasis who in this myth are the Soma, the nectar, the water, when they would seduce the Sadhu, which of course the Sadhu is a bit resistant because he wants to retain his semen to transform it to waken Kundalini Shakti in this particular mythos. There are other cycles that wouldn't do that. But then when his seed spilled, when he came,

rain would fall all over Orissa and all over the kingdom and the fertility of the land would be returned. So the drought ends and the rivers return and Shiva and Shakti unite and the waters fall down and the world once again is wet with life. So that's the myth that came to mind.

Scarlett (30:17)
I love it. I love that one. I know you've told that before in other contexts. You know what came to mind as you were telling that? And I think this is a good, I think there's a few different Gandanta metaphors contained within this image in my mind. I've never been to Burning Man, not a particular interest of mine, but I have been up to the Black Rock Desert and spent time on the Playa there.

Justine Lemos (30:18)
Mm-hmm.

Scarlett (30:43)
And I was with a group of people many, many years ago, maybe 15 years ago. And we were all, you know, just camped like 50 people in a big circle with all our vehicles. And ⁓ there was a gigantic storm. it's like so incredibly hot that you can barely stand to be exposed in the sun. You have to kind of just move your little shade structure around. Then out of nowhere, an immense electrical storm.

torrential rain, nowhere for the rain to go, puddles forming, rivers running through the desert, lightning bolts striking down into the water that's collecting. I'm amazed we didn't get struck by lightning, actually. Then the, it's hardly even sand, but like the substance of the earth turning into mud. Mud is a very Gandhanta kind of energy where it's like, it's not fire, but it's like...

Justine Lemos (31:29)
Hahaha.

Scarlett (31:43)
Not actually mud, would be like clay or lava. Lava is very Gandhanta-ish. It's like liquid fire. That would be the Scorpio Decideterius transition. That's the word. Yeah.

Justine Lemos (31:45)
lava or lava.

Yes. Yeah, we could talk about refinements of

what each Gandhanta would appear like, right? Because the Revati to Ashwini is going to be a lot different than Ashlesha to Magha, different than.

Scarlett (32:01)
Yeah.

Completely different. Anyway, rainbows emerged. And I think that that's also another one of those things where it's like you can't you you can't have a rainbow without rain and without sun without water and without fire. Right. It's like it creates its own third thing in the combining of the elements. ⁓ And I just want to make a note just kind of bringing it back to the Jyotish is the moon moves very quickly. Right.

Justine Lemos (32:12)
⁓ Yes.

That's right.

Mm-hmm.

Scarlett (32:35)
The moon makes a 28-day cycle, essentially. There's 27 nakshatras, one per day of that cycle, and then on the 28th it returns. Which means that the moon crosses through a Gandhanta zone three times per month. Three times a month. The moon, the mind, the emotions, is constantly undergoing tremendous evolution. Right?

Justine Lemos (32:49)
A month. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Scarlett (33:00)
And the fact that

we live in a society that's very solarized, it's very masculine in that sense. And it's so incredible. If you look at what's going on in the sky, you should not expect to feel emotionally or mentally stable on a day-to-day basis. I mean, because that's just not what's happening, right? Whereas other planets are, know, Saturn only has to experience a gondunta zone about every 10 years.

Justine Lemos (33:06)
Yes.

Yeah. ⁓

Scarlett (33:30)
Right? Jupiter maybe only every four. Mars every six months maybe. Yeah, it takes about two years for Mars to return. you know, whatever that is. But it's just, it's just good to recognize that we are constantly ⁓ undoing karmas and then accumulating Morcheeba and then undoing them again. And we're constantly going through these transitions. And so,

Justine Lemos (33:36)
Three, six months.

Scarlett (33:59)
Just felt like it would be good to acknowledge that in the con, you know, I think one great joy of studying these systems is that it helps you see that the patterns that you're experiencing as an individual are completely universal. That's the whole point. It's the big self and the little self. It's, you know, we have many, many examples of that that we can start to weave in from this beautiful transition, right? Anyway. ⁓

Justine Lemos (34:16)
Mmm.

That's right.

Scarlett (34:27)
We've got a myth, had movie, fashion, music. What else do we need?

Justine Lemos (34:31)
Also, ⁓ the beautiful

⁓ nighttime tantric bhakti ⁓ devotional desire, musical current of Sringhara Lahari would be so relevant here, especially in Raga Malkauns. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I'll try and like post a link or something so that we can hear it. Also, you know who comes to mind here is Bjork. I don't know exactly.

Scarlett (34:59)
I was gonna say that it

Justine Lemos (35:01)
Hahaha! ⁓

Scarlett (35:01)
came to mind because I was thinking I psychically transmitted Bjork to you and when you were talking about Morchiba I was like there's another person who kind of represents that that energy and that would be her absolutely yeah and ice well and think about Iceland right we were just talking about lava Iceland yeah it's literally gone down to world I mean there's volcanoes

Justine Lemos (35:07)
You

Yeah, she is. Gandanto world fire and water.

Scarlett (35:26)
lava flowing into the ocean. I mean, this that that's exactly what it's like. And like, you can't live in an on an icy island without the fire element. Right. Like, you know what else that reminds me of is I actually traveled in Tierra del Fuego, land of fire down in southern Patagonia with somebody from Iceland. And it's called that the reason why the explorers, the colonizing explorers, I guess,

Justine Lemos (35:27)
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

Mmm.

Mm. Down and right.

Right.

Right.

Scarlett (35:55)
called

it land of fire is because the people who indigenously lived there kept fires burning at all times because if they went out they were out everything was wet all the time so they constantly burned fires and they didn't really wear any clothes because it was too wet so they just stayed close to fire source with kind of a you know coverings like a cape, ooh like capes and cloaks which have come up in other guys.

Justine Lemos (36:22)
Like, heheheheh.

⁓

Scarlett (36:24)
Imagine

if you could put all of the fashion elements that we've talked about into like a single place. Trash bags, transitional glasses, all kinds of things. Anyway, ⁓ how do we put a cap? You can't put a cap on a gondenta.

Justine Lemos (36:30)
Trash bags.

Well, you

know, I think that we can say that, you know, we have to surrender and through Gandanta we can let things fall apart. It's like, know, cause that's what happens. I mean, this is the river crossing. This is the river sticks, you know, from one land to another.

Scarlett (37:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Justine Lemos (37:12)
You know, it's a river of death. It's a fire of rebirth. We're always water into fire. River of death, fire of rebirth. This is Phoenix energy. Down, down, down into the cave, into the water, up, up, up, fire, right? So, ⁓ fire offerings, water offerings, ancestral prayers, ⁓ and anything.

for these particular Gandantas, hypnosis would be really good for the Mars Gandanta moving from Eshalasia in Tamaga, ⁓ oil massage, Abhyanga, silence, ⁓ breath retention, all of these things, because that point between inhalation and exhalation, point between exhalation and inhalation are internal Gandanta points, internal liminal spaces that hold before

were re-birthed through each inhalation, each exhalation is a cycle of birth and death of fire and water. Yeah? Okay, good. And yeah, and you know, also the gods are often reborn under the water. And we also are reborn under the water and into the fire.

Scarlett (38:14)
I love that. Beautiful. Well, let's leave them on that note, okay?

Justine Lemos (38:37)
Om Namah Shivaya!

Scarlett (38:39)
Bless you both. ⁓ See you next week.

Justine Lemos (38:41)
See you next week.

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