Reimagining Worship: Leading a Creative Team with Your Spouse - Trevor & Melissa Chin

Navigating Worship Ministry as a Couple: Roles, Challenges, and Growth

In this episode of the Reimagining Worship Podcast, hosts Trevor and Melissa Chen dive into the dynamics of leading a worship ministry as a couple. They discuss their individual roles, the challenges of balancing responsibilities, and the importance of role clarity and trust. The couple also shares insights on effective delegation, the significance of developing systems and culture, and the impact of prayer and spiritual guidance in their ministry. Don't miss their practical advice on working together efficiently and fostering a strong worship team.

Transcript

 What's going on, y'all? Welcome back once again to the reimagining worship podcast. I'm your host Trevor Chen and I'm here with my bride. Hello. I'm Melissa Chen. Wonderful. Wonderful. So today we're going to talk about a unique topic, but it's not necessarily unique at all,  but, uh, we're talking about, uh, leading a worship ministry or creative team.

Um, as a couple and what that looks like. So can you even kind of intro us, kind of tell your role and kind of what you do,  uh, and just not even specifically where we are now, but just kind of the role that you feel that you've played over the years and dynamics and all that kind of stuff. Ooh, over the years.

Um, so let's just start with right now. So right now I'm the worship leader and I work under your, uh, supervision. No, but as you head over to creatives, uh, team, I am over to vocalists. And so really my role is It, it collaboration with songwriting, I mean, songwriting, I wish song selection, um, teaching the leading, the rehearsals and of course leading on Sundays.

Um, but as a general thing, just in ministry, I think that, um, that kind of has been the role for a long time, just depending where we are. Um, you've usually are like the lead person and then I tend to be the singer, but things have kind of evolved over the years, I think. Yeah, yeah, I think that, uh, really  I guess I'll kick with even knowing a clarity of role clarity of strength I  think there was an expectation for me early on to like do all the things for me to  lead the singers lead the band  lead production lead  presentation, lead environment, and then still play and sing and lead on the Sunday.

Um, and then like lean on you a lot for it. And then it's like, I think that some of the conflict was like, are you going to like, am I going to do it? You're going to let me do it. Or you just, Oh yeah. That tug of war. It was definitely a tug of war because I think the assumption was, all right, you're the guy, you do all the things, which is unrealistic, but like you do everything.

Um, but.  Should you, should you do it? Should I step in? It looks like it's a missing piece here. How do I step in? I remember a time. Can I just say something even on that? Like sometimes it would look like just even illustration like, Hey, hold this for me.  All right, cool. All right. Yeah, exactly. I got it. I got it.

Just, just, just, just hold it though. Like don't, don't take it, but just hold it. Which ended up being. I mean, I remember having a lot of unhealthy repercussions on that one because it's, it was my leadership even in that space was super unclear because sometimes I would just need just a moment, like hold the singers down for three minutes while I run back here to the back to make sure presentation knows what they're doing so I can come back.

Problem with that is, It's still the, you're trying to do all of the things versus just doing the things that you have to do. Like there's some things that you can do, but other folks should do. And there's some things that only you can do. And it took me a long time to like find that seat. Yeah. You know me, if you don't want me to do it, don't ask me to do it ever again.

I will never do it. Yeah. I'm very dramatic in that way. Very much so. Very much so. But I didn't mean to cut you off. You say something. I forgot. Oh. It's a part of ministry too. So I'll be getting cut off. Yeah. No, that's just my ADHD. That's all that is.  Um, I think we were just talking about, um, like knowing the roles, the clarity of the roles.

Early on, there was this assumption like, all right, you the man, you do all the things and I just do whatever you tell me to do. Even though I saw the gaping holes, I saw where if we worked together as a team, how much more efficient it would be. But I also still just, I don't think was confident enough to step in and say like, Yo, I got it.

I got it. That wasn't until much more recently, much more recently. Yeah. I think one of the,  I think one of the major factors for that, or one of the reasonings even for that was just, uh, when you see me kind of down and like super stressed, super exhausted, super cooked, burnt out, like, I ain't got it. I don't even know what I'm gonna do.

And then you kind of stepped in. Hey, Jason Tucker, my man. I use the F word. I love hearing what others say. I like to say, Oh, my gosh. It's Paul, the Ferguson dropping. My downtown everywhere I'd like to just, like, uh, I saw, um, so people I was surprised at the number of people who were Spanish. They were around the country.

Uh, every so called, but in this country, yeah, which is kind of cut off from the majority of my country, but that's also part of our nation about trade. Let me guess. What what did t would've thought if we had more Filipino, uh, friends and folks in the city? Also, 

Respectfully, like, but Twix, the two of us, one of us is and one of his ain't. And, um, uh, but some of those things, even just, I mean, we're talking about confidence. We're talking about pride. We're talking about, um, the need to be in control. I think oftentimes like people like that sit in seats like me have a tight grip and a tight grasp on everything because they want it to go exactly how they want it to go.

Um, and I understand that from a space, but there was, I was listening to a guy, he says 60 percent with upward mobility. If you can hand something off to someone else that can do it 60 percent of the capacity that you can do it, but with the room and space to be able to grow. Then hand it off, um, for this specifically, it was much different because you were much more better.

You're much better. Obviously you're a singer. Um, um, and even just the, the culture that you've kind of cultivated throughout the team, um, especially with a bunch of ladies, that's, that's just, you entered into spaces in their lives that I couldn't have done. Um, Um, and vice versa, even with the band and some of the fellas that's on the team, I've been able to, I mean, step into some of those spaces, but can, like, can you talk from your vantage point?

Like how has the, how's the feel and the flow been, especially like, let's, let's say 2024, um, in terms of some of the dynamic and what are some like pitfalls that we can run into? Well, some of the wins, I feel like since really 2024, now that I know, like, I am responsible for not just, you know, song selection, but the vocal development, um, the culture as singers, like knowing specifically what I do, I can take ownership of it.

I think the issue was I didn't have ownership because I felt like at any moment. You know, you could be like, all right, I'm back from my break. Let me take this because I have a vision. And you know, I want to be able to say, Hey, Trev, this is the vision I have for the vocalists and I want your support. Um, but I don't like to start something and not complete it, you know?

And so I think that I've held back for a long time. And then when I was like realizing like, okay, no, we know exactly what the roles are now. We know exactly how it can go. I've seen our team grow tremendously. We really went from. Having one worship leader to having three worship leaders at a point and I think that Just knowing that we had the support, the systems, you know, all the backing, and for me to be able to just focus in and do this, knowing like, this is not going to be taken away any moment, like, go all in, I think that that has been the best opportunity.

Um, I think also, Watching you delegate, encourage the same thing for me to be able to delegate even within our smaller team. Um, so I think that's been super helpful. Um, I think also the last, last thing is trust. Like, I trust you. I know that, and I know you're not going to like step in and try to do it.

And if you are stepping in and do something, it must be important. And, um, I think with confidence too, I can, I know that. I'm doing it. I'm doing it well. And so there wouldn't be a need for it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the, the, especially based on what you just said, the last point is making sure that the people that you're delegating to understand the culture that you're trying to build.

Um, Um, because that's the biggest piece, everything else can be worked out. Technique, uh, systems like all this, all that can be worked out. But like if the culture and the heart is aligned and whatever direction you, I mean, you go at that point can happen. And then the other major thing, especially for folks that, that are in leadership positions, when you empower someone to go forward or to do something, let them actually do it.

I think oftentimes that will empower people. And then keep stepping in and keep stepping in and keep micromanaging and keep well, like, Hey, spend the time, not micromanaging, spend the time helping develop the culture, spend the time helping make sure they know the heart. Um, make sure they, I mean, they, they have the heart of the house, all that kind of good stuff.

So when we move forward and you actually delegate, like you're there, they're running well. Right. Um, you could tell if you haven't trust issues or don't feel like it's going to get done in that, that makes us pull back to be like, okay. He doesn't think that we can do this. Well, and I think that like  the arrogant piece of a lot of leaders is that we don't think that anyone else is capable of doing the things that we can do. 

Truth of the matter is there was a time that we couldn't do it, that I couldn't do it, but it was the, it was someone allowed me the time, the space. Ability to mess up a little bit, ability to be able to mess up a little bit. Um,  it and it, and it, it, it got difficult that, for instance, like even having a pastor that wasn't necessarily well versed in music or technology or singing or any of that stuff  in my, like he didn't step in 'cause it was a lot of spaces that he couldn't step in.

Right. He couldn't speak into. Worship culture per se. He couldn't speak into enemy. He could, he obviously, but like, he couldn't speak into some, um, uh, he couldn't hop in from a band perspective and gimme sitting out and play the keys. Like, yo, don't, don't play it like this, play like that. Don't sing this song, sing that one.

Um, versus now if you're over a creative team like I am, um, you have the ability to be able to step in and play the keys, have ability to be a step in, to exhort, to sing to, I mean, to environments and all the rest of that kind of stuff. And I think the battle is really kind of holding back on some of that stuff, especially when it's, when it's go time.

And for us to turn more into like Monday morning, like reviewers, um, what do they call them? Monday morning quarterbacking. Like I, we talk about that as a bad thing, but that can be, that's a good thing for leaders, especially on a creative team. Take note of the team like on Sunday as they're leading.  Find things that they're doing well, find things that they can improve on, find things, um, that you would have done differently.

Um, and then have a Monday morning or like, like we just established a Sunday afternoon. Um, what's the name? Sunday afternoon. We're now recapping, like, you know, these are the wins. These are things that have happened well today. These are the folks that stepped up. These are opportunities where we can grow.

Um, things that we can change, things that we can, um, uh, make some small adjustments to to make the whole thing better. Um, and then what does next week look like? What does preparation look like? What's rehearsals looking like? And you and I do that. We do that. Um, I think it's not as formal, but usually after service, you know, you're given feedback and I'm vice versa, giving you that feedback.

I think back in the day it was a little more rough. Um, I don't remember why, what was the problem? Uh, I think it was culture. I think it was youthfulness. I think it was, We did get married at 22. Yeah, we were young. We were very young. But, um,  uh, it gave space for, A lot of potential, a lot of growth, a lot of opportunity.

Yeah. You said systems. That was one that we didn't have. I remember at one point we were flowing so much cause we were used to flowing with one another. But when we brought people in, it brought a different level of chaos. Cause they like, where are y'all going? It's like, we're going,  just follow us. Yeah.

The, the, the strength about leading a creative team or the worship team with your spouse is that y'all can. Flow on the drop of a dime, like we can, we can do a two hour set right this second. Yeah, he can tell when I'm about to tag. He can tell when I know what direction you're going. Like, you know what I mean?

I know what song you thinking about going into like the chemistry and that's, that's, that's part of the thing. That's a whole nother episode, but like the chemistry is already there. But the problem with that is you can oftentimes lean on that and that be a crutch. The chemistry is actually a crutch because it's not systematized.

It's not organized too much. If 20 P and I think that's the question I'm like consistently asking, like if 20 people. Sign up for your team tomorrow. Are your systems strong enough to be able to onboard all of them at the same time? Um, is your culture strong enough to be able to withstand that? Um, so like, that's a, that's a major question.

I think the leaders need to be consistently asking is, are the, is the infrastructure in such a place because. Hey, if we're going to be, uh, um, good stewards over, over the little things, um, you mean maybe we say, well, we don't need all that, but we only got  system of five people. Well, the system that you have is going to be the one that you, that you continue with.

And, um, and if you don't, if, if more people add onto that team and it can crush your system, then the system that you have is not a good one. Um, so.  Some of those things just systematize and a lot of the stuff and we talk about this like I talk about a lot a lot like I, I went from a worship pastor to an executive pastor to like now more just like a creative director overall, um, all the creative spaces.

But  I think one of my things was when I got in the XPC, I saw like, oh,  I can't manage my life. If I don't have a clean system for how I'm doing things, there's a day I'm going to the bank. There's a day I'm going to the post office. There's a day that I'm dealing with donors. There's a day that I'm dealing with all the team leads.

Um, cause that was a whole nother thing, like going from a team to lead to now having to Lead team leads. I think that was one of the major shifts in my life that helped me in the space that we're in now. And like, oh, I can't do all those things. It's impossible for me to do it. I have to lean on the team of leaders.

Mm-hmm . Um, and, uh, and it's, it is, it is been, it's been a joy to kind of be able to kind of create  that community. Um, and then the other big piece is, 'cause like now we're talking about organizational stuff. We're talking about, I'm trying to really deal with. You, the band director, the production lead, and, um, the presentation director.

My communication primarily goes through y'all and then y'all will communicate to you and me and to your teams. My, my role is to communicate with y'all and then try to get folks on your team to do some more onboarding on your, on your teams. And I need to be able to step back and let you run. Yeah, it reminds me of kind of like our strengths.

You were talking about that earlier. I think you are a systems and a processing guy. You know, you start talking in numbers and then I'm like, Oh, you know, like, well, what are we doing here? But that's definitely your strength. Um, seeing the structure and the organization and being able to do that, you're the process and I'm the people.

And I think a good combination of process and people make for a great ministry lead. Um, so you set the systems for the worship team. I connect with the people and hopefully, you know, developing their vocals. But even if we're not focusing on developing vocals. building up just their efficiency and efficacy in leading worship, singing on stage.

And like you said, establishing the culture. Like I can deal with the people and you set the systems and it's like powers combined. Now we know that where before you were doing people process and people process and performance. Um, and so I think that Just kind of, sometimes there's this unhealthy culture of like, well, I'm the man, I have to lead everywhere.

I got to lead at home. I got to lead in this ministry, you know, and working under you, you know, I was joking calling you my supervisor, but at the end of the day, I do think, um, it can kind of bleed over in unhealthy ways, but I think we figured it out. I remember one time we were singing.  And I wanted to continue and you wanted to wrap up the song and I remember kept going and you like slowed the song down, told them drummers to end it out.

And I remember I was so mad, you know, like we just were not on the same page and you like, we wanted to, we both had two different visions of what worship was going to be like that this Sunday. But now I think we, we have been on the same page, I think.  Another part of being on the same page. Yes. Culture.

Yes. Systems. But I think spending time with God, you know, that time in prayer, um, we've been praying together more. I think that that's  important too. Like, you know, we can like, I think the most amazing thing is when we hear from God the same way and you have a vision and I have a vision and we're like doing that together.

I love that.  I think that one thing that, uh, praying together has done for me is kind of, it's, it's, it's humbled me in a lot of ways. Um, I think that, I don't know if I avoided it per se, but it was like, I'm gonna get it done. Like I know,  I know in my heart, even as I'm saying it right now, I know in my heart, I got that dog in me.

Like I know I do. And I've been trying to tell my kids that if they got my last name, they got that dog in them too. Or math facts. Um, or math facts.  But that That, that idea and that identity that I held just based on how I came up, you know what I mean? The culture, the culture that I was a part of, like, yo, let's just get up and go.

Because of that, um, it made it difficult for me to, I don't want to use the word submit, but like, be cared for, you know what I mean? To be covered, to be like, Yo, I gotta run the finances. I need to run the well being of the kids. I need to run. Yeah. I mean the household. I need to run. Um, the ministry that we're over.

I need to run like all of these different things I need to run, but like this, that, that idea of prayer with you specifically. Kind of like continue to remind me like, Oh Lord, this, Lord, this is, this is, this is you. If give me what they say, like, if you ain't going to do it, ain't going to get done with something.

If, if, if, if the Lord doesn't build the house, the labors work in vain late, you'll be a little toil in vain. I love that version. Um, and then it's, it's, it's one of those things for me, like,  you know, there's, there's some strengths that I have  that when I'm, when I'm at peak performance.  I'm running very quickly, executing hard.

Um, but the problem, one of the, one of the factors that deteriorates that is me doing the things that I'm not necessarily proficient in and having the unwillingness to let them go. Um, for us, I feel like even letting go a lot of those things. Um, Even in some, a few aspects, even like financially, you know what I mean?

Like, like direction, you know what I mean? With where we are financially or with the business and all that kind of stuff. Like there's been more things that, you know what?  While I can do it, I'm also a spender. You know, Hey, just for husbands, if you're this, like the spender should not be the one. Managing the finances.

I'm just saying it's not a good look. Um, but like little things like the expression for the business side of things and um, but and then open communication. Um,  just to last thing, even about that, uh, the, uh, illustration you gave when I was trying to wrap the song up. Um,  my communication with you was, was, was poor.

You didn't know that we were ending this. We were trying to push for a 45 minute service over and above a one hour service because of some weather issues. It's I don't remember exactly the why, but that three song, 20 minutes set got cut to 15. I didn't communicate that with you prior to. So when I'm landing the plane, I'm just like, yo, you just need to just roll with me. 

And then there was a little bit of resistance. They're like, yeah, we still got time. Things are going well. Like, no, it is not. We got to go.  And, um, but just those lack of communication, once again, those lack of systems, the lack of clarity. Um, and that's one of, one of my words, uh, um, for this year is just as clarity is clarity in terms of, Direction.

That's what my kids that's with you. Uh, that's what the, I mean, with the people I lead, that's what my business, um, like all of these things, I want a high level of clarity for myself, but also clarity with the people I need. You can't communicate it clearly if it's not clear to you. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. Any little, any last words? I think we have a tour coming in here in a little bit. Yes, we do. Ooh, they should be here. Um, I think that I look forward to seeing what God is going to do. Um, Next, with, I think, this new revelation of how we move in ministry together, knowing our strengths, clarity, and roles, and All the things for sure, for sure.

Hey,  like, comment, subscribe, share, tell a friend to tell a friend, but real talk. If you have any other further questions, you can go to reimagineworship. com. Um, there's a bunch of information around that we do, um, worship cohorts throughout the year. Um, so there's a signup sheet. If you wanted to hop into one of those, it's free, totally free.

So  until next time. Yeah.